Prior to the Switch, Nintendo would always lower the price of their games after a bit. I wouldn't be surprised to see them lower last-gen prices if they release their new console.
I think they’ll actually triple the price of the Switch 1 and make it so you can only get the Switch 2 (which will be $800) if you buy the original again. That’s the most realistic option.
One thing I feel is important in Nintendo speculations that I never really hear anyone factor in: this new console is probably the first Nintendo console that has not had Iwata's involvement in any way. And maybe the first without Reggie's involvement in any way since he first joined NOA. We are in totally uncharted territory for Nintendo as a company. No telling what their next big product is going to be or how they'll handle it.
@@fluffynator6222 No, that’s not how R&D works… Leaderships sets parameters and R&D will make the best possible product within those parameters New leadership means new parameters
Have to agree on the one commenting before me, thats Not how R&D works at all, its usally the Boss(es) who Set the parameter and the rough outline, the team doesnt have, Res. Have almost no creative influence@@fluffynator6222
People keep forgetting that for the first time ever Nintendo‘s leadership team is different when developing the Switch2 Satoru Iwatas legacy lasted from the Wii to the Switch… we are in a new era now
Nah this goes back to gba Era with the empty words of DS not being a replacement but then absolutely was a replacement, and repeated basically every portable gen since.
I think Arlo isn't taking into account the fact that the original Switch was a mere 4 years removed from the Wii U, meaning PS3 level hardware was around a decade old. If you look back a decade from 2025, where the Switch 2 is releasing *8* years later, PS4 Pro is right on the money, hence Nintendo will be able to offer that kind of performance for no additional cost, right around the time the PS5 Pro is coming out
Yea I feel like people aren’t realizing why the Switch was “underpowered”. It came out when it did because the WiiU was a complete failure. It was essentially a band-aid solution for ninty. Also how did this idea that the switch is weaker than the ps3/Xbox 360 start coming from? Moreover, the Switch 2 doesn’t have the same initial R&D costs that the original switch probably had.
@@Xedefenseformthe weaker than 360/PS3 idea came from all the re-releases of 7th gen games that ran terribly on switch. However, this wasn't a hardware problem, this was because instead of porting the 360/PS3 version of a game, publishers just ported the remasters they made for the XB1/PS4 with major downgrading. That's why so many remasters ran terribly, but somehow Red dead ran perfectly. Because Rockstar's barebones port was perfect for the Switch's specs. Since Gen 8 and Gen 9 are so similar, this hopefully shouldn't be a problem with the Switch 2
@@Xedefenseform I also wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia, which is currently rolling in the dough with AI money, isn't able to come to a sweetheart deal with Nintendo for a quality chip to follow up the 3rd best selling (and counting) console of all time
The tracked shipped chips, tracked shipped RAM and TFLOP capacity with the DLSS/AI upscaling capabilities are definitely showing that Switch 2 will actually perform on par or just above a Series S level. It will be way closer to Series S instead of even PS4 Pro.
@@lordderpingtonII we have physical proof that nintendo has recently ordered over 10 million screens for production, i doubt scalpers can buy enough to be a problem
I think it's a lot simpler than this. Nintendo sees playstation and xbox moving away from exclusives and they see an opportunity to take over the console market if the next switch is able to play third party AAA games day 1.
Honestly, nintendo doesn't need third party support. Having nintendo first party games coming out nearly monthly is working for them. Having a big game on their platform is good for drawing in outsiders, but it might also take away from sales that would have gone to first party titles. Nintendo first party games sell 50% of all games. Having smaller AA games as lures for fanbase outside of nintendo would work much better as a compliment for nintendo rather then having AAA games as competition. Of course this is all based on nintendo keeping up the monthly release schedule.
@@saintlugiabut your system has to run the games. BG3 I think would have come to switch if it wasn’t super underpowered. That’s what you’re missing. So first you have to actually run the game. Then you can’t get away with running the most popular games like crap for too long. You can’t takeover if you try that. Gamers won’t all go for that. Yes people with no money will play a much worse version of a game, but a lot of people will play the better version of a game. I think they missed out on a lot of cash by not having BG3 on the switch. Would have been perfect for it. And your argument about it’s good to run 3rd party games less well because it helps 1st party. No, this is a company. They want to make more money. And having gamers buy more games they love on their store is great for business.
@@saintlugia Third party support is important, hence why nintendo has invested into it. This time around they will take that into account more so than ever before. Hence why their new system is seemingly gonna be a big leap at least relatively. They are the one company who can survive without it as shown by the Wii U era but how did that turn out for them? Third party support is important as it gives another reason to buy and stay in the ecosystem. If you knew third party games were coming day and date to next console then u might not feel inclined to say buy PS or xbox. First party games are system sellers but after a person plays that game what then? they'll go on hiatus for the time being until the next big title. Thats where third party support comes in
Nintendo doesn't need third party support? So what's the point to show them their upcoming system behind closed doors? Nintendo indeed needs third party support, variety is more important than exclusives, that's why Nintendo is making indie directs and partners showcases.
@@saintlugia There's a lot of speculation that Xbox, and perhaps even Playstation, may exit the console market, because they really don't offer anything more than PC. Nintendo can survive on it's first-party content, so it's possible we'd only see Nintendo and PC as the available gaming platforms going forwards. I think there's a pretty big market of semi-casual gamers that don't feel the need to go full "PC master race". For a lot of people, having a console and knowing it "just works" instead of thinking about specs just takes away some stress, even if they don't get 4K at 144 FPS. If the Switch 2 can support 70% of AAA titles with "good enough" performance, that might move maybe 10 - 20% more units.
Something to keep in mind is that the Switch completely outclasses the PS3 and 360 in terms of performance. Look at Red Dead Redemption on PS3/360 compared to Switch in docked mode. The original version of that game runs at sub 720p and can rarely ever hold 30fps, whereas the Switch can output a 1080p image that's mostly consistent at hitting 30fps. People compare the Switch to PS3/360, but that's only because the Switch was clearly less powerful than PS4/Xbone. The Switch's hardware also had a modern set of features that those older consoles didn't. On that note, the Switch is also a hybrid console and has to underclock it's performance to have satisfactory battery life in handheld mode. The Switch 2 will be the same in that on paper it will outclass PS4/Xbone, likely even the Pro and X models, but the key difference is that it will have an extra edge by having an even more modern feature set than PS5/Series X by having hardware designed for Nvidia's AI upscaling, which is far more efficient than what AMD has managed. Comparing Nvidia hardware and AMD hardware by just reading performance numbers doesn't tell a full story anymore because of how far Nvidia has outclassed AMD with features like DLSS. Sony knowing this is why they are implementing custom upscaling technology they've developed into PS5 Pro, rather than relying on what AMD can provide them. It won't be until we see games running on Switch 2 that we can draw a full picture, but I dont see any reason to not expect a console that on paper is close to a PS4 Pro (but with a lot more memory), but it punches above it's weight through more advanced hardware features to get image quality similar to a Series S. It will also depend on how well devs implement that technology.
Indeed. They marketed the Wii U as being about as powerful as the PS3, even releasing Mass Effect Trilogy to showcase it. And the Switch was a step up from that, though not the equal of rival 8th-gen consoles.
I also don't think a "slow transition" would be successful. Like if you make a new console that plays the previous games, and does all the same stuff plus more that the old one couldn't then I don't think a lot of people will keep buying the old one. Maybe I'm wrong though, cause this is just based on the anecdotal evidence of people in my life dropping the GBA for the DS, and the 3DS for the Switch.
When you think about how long ago the PS4Pro came out and factor in anything about Moores Law, there is close to no reason for it not to be at least that "powerful". It should in theory be possible to make a console more than 20 times as powerful for the same price 16 times if they want to sell it for the same price as the Switch OLED and 13 times if they sell it for $299.99 even if we assume the extra cost of making it a hybrid console cuts the "power" per dollar down to one quarter it should still be over 3 times as "powerful" as the PS4Pro. And as you said that's not even taking into account the more modern features offered by current hardware that would make it completely outclass everything that came before in an incomparable way.
One thing that people forget when comparing the Switch to the Gen 6 consoles is just how small the Switch is... it's probably a similar internal volume to the Xbox 360's _controller_ let alone the console itself even at its slimmest (360 E variant). And if the rumors of using and Nvidia Ampere based GPU are true, than at least in terms of hardware _generation_ it will be on par with the Series X and PS5 (though obviously using a smaller power budget). Plus that's generational equivalent on an Nvidia chip, meaning DLSS 3 compatibility, which if Nintendo has been paying attention, will prove essential in the performance of the Switch successor up to modern demands.
the only problem i see with this is that offering crossgen for the first few years means the new console is catered ONLY to those who really want more power while an entire new system with exclusive games will get everyone to say hey i need to get that, otherwise the vast majority of people will be like why bother spending 400 bucks when i can have essentially the same experience for no extra cost
Yeah I hope their able to hard switch fast. The cross gen on Playstation 5 really killed the momentum on it with that new report the other day that only half of the PS4 user base made the switch 4 years in.
I think that's the point. Nintendo probably knows there's no way this next console will outsell the Switch anyway, so they might as well take advantage of the existing user base. Software generates way more profit than hardware
It sounds great on paper, and it makes for current gen consoles to be a compelling buy... for _new_ owners. Having never owned a Playstation in my life (well, I now own a PS1, but that was recent, and free) I feel no need to ever buy a PS4. If I wanted to get into that ecosystem I'd buy a PS5 and pickup games for either console as I desire (now I find zero reason to do this now that Sony is porting to PC, but I digress). For existing owners, there's very little reason to upgrade until the cross gen goes away. When the Xbox One came out, I didn't buy it immediately, with games coming out cross gen, games like Destiny, Assassin's Creed: Black Flag, Titanfall, and Battlefield 4 were all Still available on my Xbox 360. It wasn't until I felt like I was missing out on next gen exclusives that I finally bought an Xbox One (in a discounted bundle during an after Christmas sale...) and when the Series consoles rolled out the same thing happened. Only this time I now had a PC that could play everything either generation was coming out with, and with the much more extended support window of Xbox One and PS4 after their successors' release, it's only now four years later (well probably more like last year) that there's even a reason to consider upgrading.
This makes me hope that the new Switch will have some interesting new feature that Nintendo uses in its new games. While I wouldn’t mind a more powerful Switch, the creativity and risk-taking that Nintendo does with its consoles is something I like. Maybe it supports attachments that can extend its features such as a proper VR display with 6dof tracking used for Metroid Prime 4, or an additional screen that allows it to cleanly run 3DS ports, or cameras that extend its functionality further. Something that won’t get in the way of those that don’t want it, but that can add to the experience for those that do.
Probably not going to happen. Both Xbox and PlayStation have struggled with sales by being too expensive and by supporting last gen. PS4 pro level hardware should be easy to make portable and on a budget. It would make sense for them to mark down the switch, especially the lite. A 100$ switch lite is an unbeatable deal imo
It's not an unprecedented price point either, I think both the GameCube and the Wii sold for $100 at the ends of their respective lifespans (GameCube might have officially been lowered to below that after the Wii came out, can't remember).
@@gumpyflyale2542After playing need for speed hot pursuit remastered on Switch I can say the graphics on the Switch are better then what the 360 or PS3 ever had.
@@gumpyflyale2542 ... Was there ever a PS3 pro? But yeah, I think nostalgia glasses make people take for granted just how much of a jump the PS2 -> PS3 gen felt at the time, and simultaneously it's making them forget just how much *worse* that looks compared to the next two generations of games. PS3 gen felt the closest to photorealistic we'd gotten when it came out, but it's relative. Now it'd feel so very wrong to call almost every game on it photorealistic (except maybe something like The Last of Us in parts which is a rare exception).
They better not emulate Switch 1 games on the Switch 2. It's all the same architecture. I agree that backwards compatibility is going to be a given. The moment they got away from their proprietary systems from the Wii U and backwards, their 3rd party partnerships exploded and opened up the perfect path for this.
If the rumors are to be believed, the power of a PS4 Pro is a pretty good fit for a handheld/hybrid console at the moment. I mean, if that’s what this even ends up being. You do gotta consider that if this continues to be intended as a hybrid handheld with docking and playing traditionally as a key feature, these specs still put it behind the curve compared to proper home consoles. Trying to hit 1080p, and being able to fake it till you make it up to a 4K display, really should be the “good enough” for a console like this, at this point.
Glad Arlo points it out himself at the end, because yes, I am sick and tired of gaming youtubers uttering the phrase "it makes SO much sense" or "it makes ALL the sense in the world", like they are suddenly proclaiming themselves experts on the subject.
If experience should tell us anything, Nintendo doesn’t always do the thing that makes the most apparent sense to us. They have highly experienced people making decisions carefully, considering factors that we are likely completely unaware of, with goals that don’t align with ours.
Nintendo will focus on upscaling because that will allow handheld market to keep up with current gen games but also allows them to develop games at a much lower cost than the rest of the industry for the same quality/appearance of results. I think they will make upscaling more apparently the best future path for gaming both from a consumer and from a development point of view
Mhm. With the architecture the Switch 2 is rocking, it's going to have DLSS 2.0 but eventually DLSS 2.0 will fall behind as it isn't Nvidia's main form of upscaling anymore and Nintendo knows this. That's why they have their own patent for upscaling, most likely being re-engineered DLSS.
If Switch 2 is $400 there's no reason to drop the price of the original. They'd probably leave the Lite and OG right where they are and discontinue the OLED (don't need a premium Switch 1 if premium customers are all buying Switch 2). Then they have entry points at $200, $300, $400 which is pretty clear and easy to communicate.
i think it would be better to phase out OG switch and then drop the OLED’s price to the OG’s price instead of just phasing out the better version of the OG switch
I think fans care waaay more about that than Nintendo does. They are a business. Winning for them is maximizing profit. Not having the number 1 system on a Wikipedia page.
I doubt you can realistically sell a PS4 Pro level portable system at 400 bucks and still make a profit, which is something Nintendo likes to do with their hardware. I'm thinking it's at least 500 dollars, and maybe even 600 dollars.
@@Mecawallace I don't think it will be PS4 Pro level. Arlo assumed that from a leak of 12 GB RAM, which is an important measure, but gives no real indication of power, just active memory.
Like if they release a game on both the Switch 1 and 2 and you buy the Switch 1 version. You could upgrade to the Switch 2 version. Reminds me of Call of Duty Ghosts when the PS4 came out.
Appreciate your take Arlo, but I think from Nintendo's point of view they can't wait to stop releasing games for Switch because of the switchs piracy problem. All their big releases keep getting leaked online multiple days ahead of release. And because of the hardware issue of the first generation Switch they can do nothing about that.
An emulator will *always* be made for a new console. Might as well be an honorary rule of the internet at this point. The history of how people find loopholes in new consoles is really interesting.
I just hope this doesn't turn out to be like the 'new nintendo 3ds', where while it was more powerful, no developer would make a game only for a subsection of the 3DS family of systems
But why not continue supporting the goldmine that is Switch 1 for a while, until they establish the new system. I mean it has a 120m+ userbase, for crying out loud! They'd be crazy not to, IMHO.
@@Jalex0021 because this would be like having two consoles, as it was in the Wii/DS era, only more complicated, because the devs would have to program the game twice, with parameters that meet the sw1 and sw2 in docked and portable mode. That would take a lot of work, and honestly, the sw1 isn't worth all that effort just to bring an inferior game to it since what people ask for most is a more powerful console with more resources
@@Jalex0021While there may be a few multiplatform games, I think it’s mostly going to be like the DS-3DS transition, where the majority of resources are focused into the new console, but there are a few games still coming out for the old system (which are backwards compatible with the new one). But if they focus too many resources into milking the last little bit out of the OG Switch, they’ll cannibalize the new Switch’s market share, which screws them over long-term.
@@jaredhamilton8694Or the early switch day support with the 3DS. These are noticeably budget titles for the sake of support. More Wii U port and smaller title(like Wario ware or Mario party)
@@guusthomassen9945 Nintendo is gonna Nintendo. And I for one appreciate them for it. They take big swings. Sometimes they miss. Sometimes they hit it out of the park. I don't want them to lose that edge, even at the expense of failure.
Imagine how big the Switch 2 would be if you could play games like Balders Gate 3, Elden Ring, Final Fantasy 7, and a ton more current gen games on it. And you know Nintendo is out there making deals. Remember when Skyrim had Zelda items in it's release for the Switch? Imagine an exclusive Baldurs Gate 3 DLC that adds Mario costumes. Or Elden Ring DLC that adds the Master Sword. It could be GREAT
was just playing Elden Ring yesterday and imagining LoZ cosmetics/items in a Switch 2 release... I never double dip on games but I'd make an exception if Fromsoftware cuts a deal with Nintendo
imho I can't imagine a worse scenario than the Switch 2 being as powerful as a PS4 Pro but having all its first party software for the first two years developed with the mandate of being able to run a compromised version that's still essentially the same game on the PS3. I'm sorry Arlo but this is a bad idea.
One thing that speaks for a more powerful Switch 2 are the Steam Deck and all the other new handhelds. I don't think Nintendo can afford a "less than PS4" performance product this time around. I hope the Switch 2 will utilize the docking station more and add some horse power into that. So that the system can run at a minimum 1440p 60fps while docked and 1080 60fps on handheld. With this they wouldn't have to compromise on performance vs battery life/weight as much. Anything less (performance wise) and I don't think I'll replace my steam deck. Or maybe it will be something completely different, who knows. Looking forward to the announcement.
I will say that if this is the case I hope the next 3D Zelda doesn't come until they decide to fully embrace Switch 2. I want it to take full advantage of the new console's power.
If anything, I'm betting the "Inter-Generational at Release" game won't be a Zelda but Metroid Prime 4 in this case. Think about how the Inter-Generational move worked for Zelda. Maybe not the main cause of Zelda going from underdog to a steady franchise, but somehow it must have been related. I'm pretty sure Nintendo now wants Metroid to take this underdog to steady leap. They only have few series that could become the 5th pillar of Nintendo after Mario, Zelda, Animal Crossing and Splatoon, and Metroid has built up expectation since the praised Metroid Dread. All of this to say that Zelda definitely will not have another game at release. At most, a DLC to TotK, although they already said they don't want to develop DLC for TotK. Regardless, I expect having the next mainline Zelda after 2026. Maybe we get a remaster of any of the 3D games (64 Duology, WW, TP, SS), a Link's Awakening-like remake for any of the 2D games or another spinoff while we wait.
@@fgvcosmic6752 Plus they confirmed it's the last of its kind. TotK captures the pinnacle and apotheosis of that type of open-world Zelda formula/game, according to an interview I saw recently (can't post links or my comment gets censored, sorry, you'll have to look it up yourself if you're curious because YT likes to stifle honest discourse on their platform). I'm guessing based on the parameters of what they said, that they'll be making more open-world Zelda games with certainty, but none of them will be using the same formula as BotW/TotK. I'm extremely curious what they'll do next. BotW is gonna keep me occupied for probably another year at this point lol, such an immense game. Then I'll return it to my best friend and then borrow Persona 5 (after I'm done with P4G, my new favorite game of all time), and at his request I'll play his copy of TotK after P5R. I'm in games overload even with just those lol, and I have hundreds in my PC backlog and dozens in my Switch eShop backlog. Not to mention I've been working through Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate on my New 3DS (finally clicked 6-7 years after my first attempt to get into it), recently bought Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate for my Switch, recently borrowed Monster Hunter Rise from the same friend I mentioned (and Metroid Dread), and am about to get sucked into buying the Humble Bundle with Monster Hunter World, Iceborne, Rise, and Sunbreak. Ahhhhh so many games, I don't know where I'll find the time lmao
What’s most realistic is that it launches at $400 and by holiday 26 it drops by $50 or so and probably stays there for the rest of the console generation. They know that a $350 switch can sell based off of the OLED model but at the same time they probably know $400 might be a tough pill to swallow for parents looking to get something for the kids.
What if they go for a two console strategy, one $300 model with PS4 power and $400 model with PS4 Pro power, I think maybe only one sku is too dangerous for Nintendo. The $300 one can include some new gimmick for causal appeal while the $400 model is an attempt Nintendo jumping back to the hardcore market. The demands for casual and hardcore switch user is splitting as years go by so this can be their strategy. To avoid the Wii U and 3DS problem, the cheaper and expensive model is on the same platform first party wise with the more expensive console getting third party as exclusive.
The only way this can work is, for example, they will have to release the lite version of switch 2 in the same period as the switch 2 so the marketing will be you can give this for personal use ( lite) or you can buy the base model for extra 100$ with all features and a family use and much more power to play more games
Nintendo would have to be fools to think they aren’t one screw up from joining the rest of the them. Even their successful systems have had issues (I’m looking at you Wii with your very poor attachment rate).
@@leeartlee915 Nintendo has shown themselves to be a smart company with better future planning than almost every other video game company out there. They aren't 134 years old for nothing, and they have survived massive screw ups before. So I'm putting them at 2 massive screw ups before I'm going to start to be concerned.
@@lemoncakeslemonade5430 Sure. The good money would be betting on them. But keep in mind, had the Switch failed, it was all but confirmed that they were leaving the hardware business. So there is less wiggle room than you would think.
@@leeartlee915 Hence why I said I'm giving them two screw ups- had the Switch failed, it would have been their second. They're not in an infallible position, and they definitely have to move carefully, but they are in a better position than most of their competitors due to the way that they've structured their company and conducted business.
I just really hope the Switch 2 has a significant gimmick that differentiates it enough from the OG Switch that gives people a new way to play/interact with their games. I'm all for more power, but I feel like a Switch successor wouldn't be as interesting without that "Nintendo twist". Ideally it'd be an optional feature like the 3D slider on the 3DS where it's something you can use if you so choose, but for those who don't care for it, they can just not interact with it or turn it off and still reap the benefits of a more powerful system. Everybody wins.
Probably dumb, but if the Switch 2 would have a gimmick, it would be VR, or at least more implementations of it. (I'm not sure how the vanilla Switch implemented it, but I think it was just some camera mods for a literal handful of games.) This way, they could also try the handheld console AND VR markets, even if, at the start, they're still just adding camera functionality to games.
Hopefully they don't pull a Wii U again though... it's not just about showing off the gimmick, show off that's it's a new system with new capabilities. I know people that even late into the Wii U's lifespan thought it was just a controller accessory for the Wii. It needs to have a good name too. Switch 2 might work, but if it's not Switch 2, then it probably needs to just ditch the name Switch entirely to prevent confusion...
@@poisonedsoap1341 with the way other VR headsets are trending, making essentially a big, bulky Google Cardboard again (or even a big, bulky GearVR) will do nothing but waste R&D. As it stands the Switch is far too big to be a feasible strap-on HMD, and the successor isn't going to get smaller (in the dimensions that matter here). The disappearance of smartphone-based VR is proving that modern VR needs a dedicated HMD to create experiences that people find valuable enough to justify strapping a bulky computer to their face.
@@poisonedsoap1341 If I recall all the VR stuff was in Nintendo Labo, but they did run through a couple patents for a proper VR headset, and with VR being much further along then it was back when the switch first came out, I could definitely see the switch 2 having some level of VR functionality
The cross-gen game release model hasn’t been this “pot of gold” formula that some seem to spin it as. It devalues incentive to purchase a new system (the only reason PS5 isn’t lagging more behind the PS4 rn is because of early fomo, goodwill from PS4, and third-party. Even then, it’s definitely tracking to be less popular than its predecessor), it restrains developers from utilizing the full power of the new console, it takes a serious edge off of the hype, and ESPECIALLY in Nintendo’s case where their IP and software are their lifeblood, it’ll confuse audiences about the necessity of a new system.
With how long developers have been holding on to PS4 and Xbone releases it should be a huge catalog for Switch to capture. I definitely think the Switch 2 should have DS/3DS compatibility in some way though
>more powerful version of the same console >Games are released for both the original and the new one, but games on the new one run/look better Arlo, you're describing a switch PRO not a sequel to the switch. If Nintendo wanted to do what you're suggesting they would have announced a pro model ages ago instead of announcing a new console.
Yeah I can't imagine switch 2 games running on switch 1. Adding that as a performance mode is likely not as simple as dropping refresh rate and resolution, especially when 1080p 30 fps is the lowest they could possibility get away with on a docked switch 2. Nintendo wants to sell a new console and eventually discontinue the Nintendo Switch Online Service, so they want to move people onto the next as fast as possible.
Sorry but… are you 12? Cross-gen games have been a thing for generations. Studios (include the console manufacturer) aren’t going to have a hard drop with the new console because they still have games mid-development, there’s still a huge player base playing the original, and companies aren’t going to want to drop supporting that huge audience for a new, untested market. It’s not like he said “for it’s whole life” he’s just saying for the first little while, which has been true since forever. The first 2 or 3 years of a console tends to have cross-gen games. Some Nintendo consoles have had a hard cut than others, but only because it was either a failure, or Nintendo kept it alive longer than the audience/studios were interested in. But that’s generally not the case, and given Switch has a high attach rate even this many years in, and the console itself has been supported longer than any other Nintendo console, it doesn’t make sense to look at it from that previous perspective because it’s not under those same circumstances.
Yup I tried to comment the channel link but CZcams marked it as spam, there’s this random asmr channel that is the exact same monster as arlo but it’s pink
Baldurs Gate 3 on Switch 2 will be very hard to pull off as its not optimized very well and Larian said they are done with BG3 so no special dlc coming from them, would haver to be Panic Button porting it. Baldurs Gate 3 runs poorly on Steam Deck. Elden Ring and FF7Remake I think is a lock thoug
If this becomes the case, then I would bet that the Switch would end up becoming basically the handheld department. Like with the DS and 3DS. They put smaller games or offshoots of mainline games on there.
Tbh I feel like Nintendo should be focusing on giving the vast amount of people who have a switch to go over to the Switch 2. I feel like this video treats Switch 2 more like what the New 3DS was to the OG 3DS rather than what I think itll be, DS to 3DS. I feel like its fair to assume Switch 2 will be $400 and itll have enough first and third party excluives that'll push people onto the console. Maybe a new feature like a camera too to reil in the casual crowd.
Switch 2 is NOT going to emulate Switch 1 games… that would make fuck all sense. They put an entire Wii into a WiiU to provide native play. They did the same with 3DS. Even the DS was able to play GBA games NATIVE. No emulation. Not gonna happen, it would be pretty awful if they did do that.
Did people really believe the switch 2 would be on a similar power as a ps4 ? The original switch isn’t too far behind a ps4 and both the switch and WII U surpass the ps3 so i would expect to think the switch 2 would be at least ps4 pro. From rumours it actually appears the switch 2 will be more powerful than the ps4 pro but not on the level as the ps5
Tbh, not entirely sure why you're so stunned at the idea of the next console being as powerful as the ps4 pro. The pro came out towards the end of 2016, over 8 years from when switch 2 is expected to release. The updated models of the 360 came out in 2010 and 2013, 7-4 years before the switch came out, yet the switch adapted that tech fine Switch 2 being as strong as the ps4 pro is more than a probability, its borderline expected. Sometimes, it's hard to recognize the progress gaming tech is at, what with how impressive last gen was, but the newest thing's were seeing is damn neat photo realistic, something you dont get with last gen tech. And that gen is being more integrated into our daily lives outside of just gaming. You might be right that switch 2 might not be that strong, but it's not at all unrealistic to expect it to be, looking back at the history of nintendo consoles.
Nintendo should make Goldeneye 007 Remastered on the Switch. I miss the good ol' days when we would sit together with a split screen and yell at each other about screen peeking! God forbid they make a game with a co-op campaign that doesn't require an online subscription...
I seriously doubt this. Making games that target an 8 year old Switch 1 as well as a new Switch 2 would add a lot of dev time for every game. I think Nintendo can keep selling the Switch 1 on its existing huge library without needing to make new cross-gen games for it. As for "emulation", I seriously doubt it. Most modern APUs offer pretty consistent instructuon sets, and low-level libraries are also getting more consistent. That's why you can play most 20 PC games with pretty much no hassle. I'd expect the same from the Switch 2.
The thing that you didn't account for is that to be as powerful as a ps4 pro the chip would have to run at its highest energy draw, which would mean really low battery life for a handheld. Much more likely is that they will downclock the chip to get better battery life, which would bring it back down to about a ps4
@malachor5ve That's assuming PS4 Pro architecture. Under a modern architecture (which based on the rumors of an Nvidia Ampere-based chip, would be at least two process nodes smaller, 16nm vs 10nm, if using Samsung 8N like RTX 3000, or 7nm, if using TSMC N7 like in the workstation cards, potentially even smaller if they reuse the architecture on today's process nodes) it would draw quite a bit less power. And that's before noting that PS4 is based on x86-64 architecture, vs Switch's ARMv8-A architecture, the latter is much more power efficient, which is why it's used in mobile devices. Now in handled mode there will probably still be power budget constraints in the name of battery life. And honestly, I wouldn't even mind it sticking to a 720p display, the Steam Deck is 720p (+ some vertical height, hence 800p, same width though) and I really don't feel the need for more at the screen size. But I think the more apt place to look for comparisons right now is the handheld gaming PC market, which are running modern AAA games with fair compromises just fine portably. And assuming Nintendo is going to stick with bumping up the power draw when docked, the PS4 Pro comparison still sounds like a fair one to make.
As new consoles get more generalized game engines and operating systems, emulation becomes easier, with fidelity quickly becoming the limiting factor. Even with vastly different hardware, I would be surprised if backwards compatibility would be a hurdle, let alone even require emulation.
Two points: firstly, while I do expect there to be several cross gen titles in the systems early life, I really don't think ALL of them will be. If they want to guarantee it's success then I really think it will still need something like Mario kart 9 all to itself. Second, at the investors meeting they talked about how their games were going to take longer to produce, meaning their output Will probably shrink. For this reason they may be trying to be more accommodating for third party developers to help keep the software flow going.
True, but about their games taking longer to produce, while it's truth, Nintendo unlike Sony and Microsoft has plenty simplier (while still hitters) games to avoid a dry, such any mario spinoff, kirby, a 2d metroid, and pretty much all the non-mainline games of their franchises or even things like kid icarus or f-zero if they ever needed to put them out of the death, it will probably consist on a good Nintendo release each month (not necesarilly a big scoped game, just like switch, even though i think they will try to at least first year to fully establish the system), and third parties to get the library stronger each month (what indies do now but with a much bigger comercial impact), something like a modern ps2 or ps1 but with all nintendo games each month (something ps didn't have), just think about a Xenoblade 4, and month or two after you got something as big a gta vi in the same system
I suspect Mario Kart 9 will be either a launch or first year title. It's been a decade since 8 released on the Wii U. The switch survived off of the port and it still sold gangbusters. I'm betting they've been keeping it in reserve to drive sales of the Switch 2.
They said it would take longer, but that doesn’t quantify “by how much”. I honestly don’t think it’ll be by a huge margin, they’re just prefacing for investors getting their parties in a bunch by the smallest differences. I highly doubt after years of having roughly one exclusive a month, that they’re going to want to push to where that’s impossible to maintain. They’re not going to stoop down to Xbox’s “1 game a quarter” which isn’t even something they achieve, but a goal they want, lol. Likely just saying that because the 1st year is obviously going to be slower.
I don’t think they’ll do the cross gen strategy. What I think they’ll do is Switch 2 exclusives to wow us into getting the new system, meanwhile they’ll do a lot of remakes / remasters of GameCube, Wii and 3DS games for Switch 1.
@@lordderpingtonII everyone is plans a new console this early genius. They don’t come up with it within one year. The ps5 sold 50 million consoles with a pro coming out soon. Not only that but a new ceo is coming too. Nintendo can use the same tactic but in the hybrid market and use their own exclusives to their advantage
Main reasoning for the cross gen period currently was because of hardware constraints. Nintendo will not go for a crossgen strategy outside of specific launch titles or maybe pokemon. At best they will put smaller games like say warioware or princess peach showtime on both platforms to help sell and give games to switch owners Tho if nintendo does do what arlo says. I expect them to quickly phase out. We saw with the 3ds sales numbers they were a bit disappointing which is why nintendo paused 3ds support. Unlike PS or Xbox, Nintendo's draw heavily relies on its first party output so people will transition for those games. Considering install size of switch people will likely stay on it till a Lite, oled, or a specific game so it is smart for nintendo to still appease that group but I don't know if they want to cannabalize sizes in the long term. It depends on if they want to focus more on software than hardware such as maybe possibly selling the system at a loss. New President and new era for nintendo so we might see shifts in strategy, tho not far removed, compared to previous nintendo
I think I made a comment about this on the last video about the switch 2 - the switch lite could effectively become Nintendo's handheld system for this generation
Absolutely! That’s how they advertise it, as a mobile device. I think Switch 2 will be $400 (50 more than the OLED), and they’ll keep the Lite ($200) as the mobile option. There’s no reason to keep the regular Switch, as it could cannibalize the Switch 2, with its massive catalog. Switch’s 1 catalog should be an incentive for buyers to buy a Switch 2. Keeping the 1 may temp people to buy the 1 instead, or not transitioning it if they have it and games keep being made.
I've said this over on Nintendoland's vid but since the conversation seems to be steering here anyway, let me just say that, after everything Iwata and Reggie have gameplanned, after all the seeing what sticks method Nintendo had for years, it really feels like they nailed it with the Switch, yknow? No more gimmicky peripherals or ridiculous price points. After all the hard work, Nintendo fucking nailed a perfect formula for at home and on the go gameplay that no one can compete with.
THIS. I avoided Nintendo for twenty friggin years because of their stupid gimmicks. The switch brought me back. Kirby plays like SNES Kirby again. Zelda has exploration again. Mario is a fairly simple 2D sidescroller again. I don't care about yarn. I don't want to be nagged about where to go next, and I don't wanna chase stupid baby penguins. I also don't wanna scribble on a screen with a stylus or do stupid gestures when a button press works just fine. The switch 2 just needs to be a more powerful version of the switch with its own games and backwards compatibility. If you owned the game on the switch it should be free to download and play on the switch 2. Ideally it should have a regular switch cartridge slot for your physical games as well, but that might add cost.
@@TheRealNintendoKid I liked the gimmicks of the Wii. It made Nintendo stand out from both Sony and Microsoft in that generation and it was why they won.
This is such a terrible idea. The PS5 and Xbox flopped on their faces by doing this cross release strategy. Nintendo should give us very compelling Switch 2 exclusives right away or there's never a reason to buy a system. You can't "soft launch" like this and expect to keep your momentum.
Two things: 1. In what world did the PS5 flop? 2. The power difference between a PS4 Pro and a PS5 vs a Switch and the proposed Switch 2 is very different. The less a consumer needs to look at the two side-by-side to see the difference, the better off you are.
@@armaldosmigolton7439 in the world where they were barely able to release 5 or 10 exclusives in the first 3 years, and then say they have 0 first party exclusives ready for 2024. Sure the system is selling well, but this generation has been an utter crapshow so far in terms of software output. In my opinion, if you don't have the software lineup to support a system, you should reconsider releasing a system (for $500 no less)
You know, I was thinking about getting a Switch lately but if the next one has backwards compatibility I might just wait and get it instead to play Switch games on it
Arlo’s channels are now like children. First, the main channel was the only child so they got all the love; now, there’s a new channel so all of the videos are going to it. But Arlo still occasionally uploads to his main channel to make sure it knows he loves it still. But the new channel is still getting the most attention I know he loves both his channels but I just noticed a funny comparison
It's pretty great, actually. He gets to talk about whatever he wants now without the worry that it's not worth a main channel video, AND the general quality of main channel videos goes up. Win/Win for Arloheads.
@@diccchocolate416Oh no I totally recognize that. Again I just noticed a funny comparison is all. But when you put it like that, his main channel becomes his quality child, while TopicArlo becomes his quantity child. Which makes it even funnier to look at it that way
Its about a PS4 in handheld and PS4 Pro docked. It most likely will end up at $400, I agree that price cuts to the Switch 1 are likely after launch. Nintendo's strategy this gen is pretty clear. Have the the same excellent selection of exclusive titles that make people want to purchase the system, and give the Switch 2 enough power to make third party games both easy to port and relatively performant compared to the competition. Make it so there are few (if any for a lot of people) compelling reasons to purchase a competitors console. Massively grow revenue from 3rd party game sales.
It's a little bit hard to tell at the moment what the performance will be like in practice, despite the majority of the spec leaking in some form or another. We've been cross-referencing public info and various leaks over the past few years over on the DF Discord (a lot of it via Famiboards), and while it does paint a fairly detailed picture of the console's architecture, we are missing a few crucial pieces of info: the process node the SoC will be manufactured on, and by more importantly the clock speeds said SoC will be running at.
@@SteelSkin667 Yeah it's hard to tell but PS4 in handheld (without DLSS) and PS4 Pro in Docked (without DLSS) is good enough. Don't remember who said it but they said that the Switch 2 will be above the PS4 in handheld (without DLSS) and above PS4 Pro in Docked (without DLSS), which is still a similar level. However powerful it will be, at the MINIMUM, DLSS+Full Scale optimization will make it excel over the Steam Deck
@@SteelSkin667 Glad to see someone else on here whose pretty well informed about the specs. You're right, it'll come down to the clocks, and that'll be largely determined by the node. I'm not sure what the DF discord thinks the most probable node is but over on Famiboards the general consensus is that T239 is fabbed on TSMC 4N. There's been pretty extensive analysis done to show that Samsung 8N is likely not a viable node. Orin power data shows that when configured the same as T239 in terms of CPU core and SM count, and running at the lowest clocks with all extra IP blocks disabled, the device would draw about 60% more power than TX1 (Erista, 20nm) in handheld mode. Even assuming power savings from having a single CPU cluster and GPC as well as the additional silicon blocks of T234 absent, T239 on 8N still blows well past a reasonable handheld power budget. To the contrary, there's quite a bit of evidence suggesting 4N. T239 shares Grace's LPDDR5X controller design and was taped out the same time as it and Lovelace GPUs (those also being 4N). T239 on 4N would also end up being only about $5 more expensive than on 8N in terms of die cost. There's a lot more I can go into but Famiboards has already done a much better job. Anyways, given the assumption that it is on 4N, we can expect roughly 600MHz handheld GPU clocks and roughly double those clocks for the GPU while docked. This gives about 2 TFLOPs FP32 handheld and 4 TFLOPs docked. I did a comparison of GCN (Polaris) to RDNA2, and then RDNA 2 to Ampere (I couldn't find many strong direct Ampere to Polaris comparisons at iso-frequencies) and per 1 TFLOP, GCN and Ampere deliver roughly equivalent raster performance, with it slightly in favor of the latter. So with PS4 Pro having a 4.1 TFLOP GPU, if T239's GPU delivers around 3.5-4 TFLOPs docked raster performance will be very similar between the two consoles.
@@2intheampm512 Yeah, we've been running the same numbers, and came to similar conclusions. The only reason why we can't completely rule out the notion that T239 would still be using the old 8nm node, only at really low clock speeds (less than half of what you've stated above), is because so far SEC8 has been mentioned a lot more often than TSMC 4N when discussing T239. Personally I think that 4N is a bit more likely for the reasons you have underlined, but until some hard evidence of it transpires, most of us including the DF team are still operating under the assumption that it'll be SEC8 or a derivative thereof. I guess we'll have to see.
@@SteelSkin667 The issue with running at sub ~400MHz clocks is that it's below 8N frequency/efficiency peak. One would assume that they would instead go with an 8 SM GPU and clock it to that point of max efficiency in handheld instead of the extra die area the 4 SMs occupy. But who knows, 8N is certainly still possible. If Nvidia managed to pull it off I'll be very impressed. And yeah it generally sounds like you guys on there have reached a similar conclusion
I am going to keep it simple. The Switch does not exist in a vacuum anymore. It will not reign supreme when a new breed of portable gaming systems with better graphics, more processing power, better battery life, larger game selection powered by the Steam store and other online options, and a better online and user modifiable experience takes hold.
Oh man, I left my blue Arlo without a leash and now has gone onto creating a channel talking about random Nintendo stuff and speculating about Nintendo's strategies from the foreseeable future
I'm going to echo what other commenters are saying: The lack of quantity of true PS5/XBSX exclusives has really hindered their sales especially PS5 which even if we disregard its availability at the start currently has less than 20 exclusives half way through its life and around 5 actual exclusives rn when counting PC releases and its clear games like FF7Rebirth and FF16 suffered tremendously from that. So hopefully they make true exclusives out of the gate so we don't get a situation where the later non cross gen games underperform like on the PS5.
I gotta disagree, Arlo. The new switch NEEDS to be a substantial jump in power. Future proper 3rd party support and the ambition of new Nintendo titles depend on the new model being a big upgrade. The current switch is operating on archaic technology compared to its competitors. It was weak back when it released, and it's been 7 years. I love the system, but it can barely even play its own games anymore. I can't play Tears of the Kingdom without massive lag spikes when performing the most simple of game mechanics. I'm not expecting the thing to be competitive with Microsoft, Sony, or PCs, but if switch 2 isn't strong enough to play all of their current 1st party games without chugging I'm going to be very irritated. The PS4 pro came out in 2016! This thing is likely not coming out until 2025. That'll mean that technology will be nearly a decade old by the time the switch 2 releases. If they release something that's weaker than decade old technology and then expect their customers to endure that underpowered machine for another 7 year-long console generation cycle... that'll be too much. I know they'll be behind, but they can't be THAT far behind. This idea you have about cross generation support could be interesting. Having different models with different levels of power at different prices would be an ideal solution. I'm willing to pay more for a beefier system. I just wish Nintendo gave me the option to buy a model with more competitive power. Nintendo games are so special. It's time to see that love and excellence they put in their games at 4k and 60fps already.
I mean, at the very least, Nintendo's games will stay exclusive to Nintendo, unlike PS5 where most first-party games are ported to PC after a while. Once Nintendo stops supporting the OG Switch, the true exclusives for Switch 2 will start coming out. And Switch 2 will make a bigger graphical leap (7th gen to 8th gen or higher) than the PS5 (8th gen to 9th gen) due to diminishing returns. PS4 really doesn't look THAT much worse than the PS5.
Exactly. He just perfectly described Sony’s approach over the past few years…which is now starting to face MASSIVE criticism. Even further, if marketed poorly this just becomes a SwitchU. If you’re treating your new release as if it’s just a slight upgrade with no unique features & the biggest selling point is backwards compatibility, nobody will see a reason to buy it.
You worried me at “lower the price of the Switch,” lost me at “they should follow what Xbox and Sony are doing with crossgen,” and made me laugh with “and then they can lower the price of the Switch 2.”
reminds me of his concept for the switch 2. I love arlo but it seems like he likes to convince himself certain predictions make a lot of sense before he even gives himself time to remember what company he's talking about.
I think the general idea here is right, but I have a few thoughts on some of the rationale. 1. PS4 Pro level power instead of PS4 power wouldn't really be "Nintendo taking it further than they need to" going off of precedent. Since the Switch has had a bit longer of a lifespan, it would make sense for its successor to have a bit more than a 1 generation leap. Especially since GPUs have come a long way in terms of performance and efficiency in the last 10 years with things like DLSS and frame gen. 2. If the switch is running on an Nvidia T239 (or something similar) like most of the rumors point to, architecture shouldn't be much different to where emulation is necessary for backwards compatibility. As long as they include the Switch libraries for backwards compatibility, they should have no problem running switching games natively. 3. Even if games aren't running natively, emulation shouldn't be necessary. We've seen from compatibility layers like Proton, that modern tools are quickly making running games built for other platforms trivial. Nintendo could certainly build something similar for Switch games on the Successor. Moreover, there are universal decomplication tools making a lot of progress in the N64 space, and that could be another potential option to decompile Switch games and automatically port them to the successor. 4. Even if emulation was necessary, it probably wouldn't need immense power to do it. Switch Emulation works great on my phone, and on a $350 Steam Deck (which the Switch 2 should definitely surpass). But I think the best rationale for all of this is that the Switch will continue to sell for a while. Like the 3DS's late lifecycle, it can continue to be the system for everyone. The successor can be the console for enthusiasts until a bit later when it can have its price reduced and become the new base model. This will extend the lifecycle of the console to hit that 8-10 year mark without feeling too outdated.
$399 today would be the equivalent of $318 in 2017. The Switch launched at $299 in 2017. If it's a 400 dollar system that's basically totally in line with what the Switch's price was.
Even if it is still $299.99 in today's money with the reduced cost of computer electronics that should still get you a console that's 13 times as powerful as a PS4Pro if we assume 75% of it's potential power has to be sacrificed to keep it small enough to be portable and pay for the screen and battery and such then it should still be at least 3x as powerful as the PS4Pro.
The power does matter though. Their game design is being held back by the lack of power and it shows. I can feel it in the game play. There are some games I really want to own and play but its so few that I would rather skip this generation entirely than buy a switch because of it.
This generation has been a nightmare for fidelity. Game come out at 30 fps and people are like "Well it's an RPG so it doesn't matter!" then they're upscaled with DLSS from 720p and blurred by TAA and people are like "Well I *prefer* a blurry image with tons of motion artifacts thank you very much!" Everything either has this gross crunch to it or ugly blur, it's very disappointing - and it's been so long hardly anyone cares to criticize it because it's become expected for games to just look like shit.
The Switch successor just needs to make use of the Switch's best feature: the IR sensor. We need one on the left joycon as well, plus IR sensors in each and every button. Throw one on the screen as well. Instead of the NX, this next system will be the IR.
There is one problem I see with this and it’s that if it’s too expensive on launch, they would miss the hype wave and people might lose interest by the time they lower the price. Especially since young people in general are getting more and more strapped for cash
It's Nintendo, it's never going to be too expensive. I'm VERY certain with the speculation and rumors and leaks of the hardware, it will be $400 USD. $350 USD would be great, but I just don't see it happening with the alleged specs they're trying to push out.
I think the PS5 has sold like 50M, and it’s more expensive and has no games. I think Switch 2 will be fine, especially with how consistent and plentiful their release schedule is. They’ve had about 1 exclusive every month for years. 1st year likely won’t be that stacked, but I don’t see it being devoid of games for too long. They’ve seemingly banked some games (like a FE remake), and the last 1-2 years by Switch 2 release will have had a number of remakes (to varying degrees *ahemluigismansion2ahem*).
Sorry Arlo, there is no way for that to be Nintendo's strategy. There are simply not enough Tegra X1 chips left for that to work. NVIDIA announced to their industry customers back in March 2021 that they should put in one last order of X1s because NVIDIA was shutting down the line. After 3 years of Switch sales, I doubt that Nintendo has enough of a stockpile left to keep Switch around as a budget device. Switch 2 is all or nothing
They don't need to climb back up because they're already there. The Switch has a good chance of beating the PS2 and becoming the best selling console ever. This gen, they just have to not fall off.
@@papermarioparty08 exactly!!! I believe they will overtake the ps2 if they could reduce the price of the Switch lite to $150. Basically drop the price of all models by $50 closer to the release of the successor.
So, I don't believe Nintendo's strategy here will be a slow welcoming into Switch 2. I think Switch might see a fire sale-type "last hurrah" where Nintendo will drop the price to clear the retail channels, but by and large, I expect Switch 2 to be pushed very hard from the get-go and for cross-gen releases to be few and far between, mostly around riskier ventures. Essentially, titles that need a large audience to prop them up as opposed to titles that can summon a large audience by themselves. Regarding the power of the hardware, however, there's a thing that most people are missing when discussing Switch 2 specs, and that is DLSS. Since Switch 2 is built on modern nVidia tech, it has access to DLSS, which the OG Switch didn't (chips were too not recent enough). Furthermore, the leaked hardware specs hint at Switch 2's innards being DLSS-compatible hardware. This would allow games to render at a much lower resolution and then have DLSS gracefully blow those up, squeezing even more potential from the hardware. The only scary thing here might be the system being CPU-bottlenecked. Admittedly, I am more well-versed in GPU talk, and whatever I know about CPUs doesn't exactly apply to an ARM-based, nVidia-made SOC, so... my fears here may be completely unfounded.
Pricing it above $400 will be a huge mistake. Nintendo games with PS4 Pro level graphics sounds pretty amazing to me. Can't wait to see the next big Mario and Zelda game on that thing. It should be backwards compatible, but not forwards. If people want to play the new Nintendo games they need to buy the new Switch.
Nintendos president actually confirmed that the next console will be "more like Switch next model", so we dont need to worry about Wii U style gimmicks.
@@Adamtendo_player_1 Shortly after that tweet confirmed the next console was posted, Furakawa was interviewed by MST Financial and David Gibson, who's a senior analyst there, tweeted about it saying that when they asked whether the next console would be brand new, he said "Switch next model would be the best way to describe it."
I'm kinda hoping some games can make that jump (Like Pokken or some obscure zelda titles) but I highly doubt we would ever see games like Wind Waker or Super Mario Galaxy on other consoles. Really wishful thinking tho. I wouldn't mind if they went the hardass route where "These features are ONLY on the nintendo version." just so we at least get the game on something else.
I don't remember him saying anything about Nintendo making its games cross-platform. Pretty sure he was only talking about cross-gen games on Switch 1 and 2.
Most of sodium Microsoft games are not quality the average at best and overrated Nintendo’s games are magical and have a quality that Sony and Microsoft cannot match. The only thing is the hardware of the current which holds them back from fulfilling their true potential.
@@NrettG Imo Nintendo has the best exclusives in the gaming industry by design: It's to make people buy their consoles. I absolutely cannot imagine a first party Nintendo game, let alone a mainline title - hit another competitors console. The furthest they've gone is smart phones but that's because their competitors don't control the marketplace on Smartphone - being on say Sony marketplace means sharing money with them, listening to their rules, and risking people buying a PlayStation for Zelda; Nintendo would never unless they've leave the console market.
Personally I don’t think there will be 2 different versions for each Switch generation. I feel like if the game carts are physically the same, it will work on both systems. As an example, ToTK. It’ll run as it runs now on Switch 1, while it will run with an improved frame rate and allow for more intensive visual effects, probably at a higher resolution/frame rate on Switch 2. New Switch 2 games may be like 3DS games, where you need the new console to play them but are still able to slot in the older games.
I'd prefer them to go all in taking advantage of the new system with games the original Switch couldn't handle. Power's not everything, but if you're building powerful hardware, use it. Making loads of cross-gen games also invites a slow burn for the new gen, which would not encourage 3rd-party developers. On a side note, I wonder if they'll bother to keep the IR camera that I think they only ever used for one party game.
I would speculate and say it's probably a ps3 or less, but just that the hardware the switch uses has been optimized so well because of its age as well as its popularity
@@magicpotato2161No, the original commenter is more correct in terms of the raw power of the system. There has certainly been a lot of very impressive optimization for the relatively weak hardware of the Switch, but it's compute performance is in line with 7th Gen+ rather than true 7th Gen
@@magicpotato2161 The tegra X1 is capable of many more advanced features that didn't exist in the 7th generation. The switch also has way more RAM than either of those consoles.
The Switch can better be characterized as a PS4 Lite than a PS3 Pro. The GPU has all the same features that the PS4 and PS4 Pro have (like modern lighting techniques, hardware tessellation, etc.), just with less raw horsepower. A PS3 is pretty powerful for its time and the Cell MIGHT allow it to use some of the Switch’s features in software, but it wouldn’t be able to run Mario Kart 8 or Super Mario Odyssey. Not to mention the amount of ram is more comparable to a PS4 than to a PS3. You can make the argument that a Wii U is a 7th gen system but even it has GPU features not present in those systems. The Switch is fully an 8th gen system.
I don’t think the difference for the between PS4 and PS4 Pro is that monumental of a leap to be considered the difference between “underpowered” and “overpowered” or a huge expensive difference. It’s likely just closer because tech has improved and they can go that far and still fit in their affordable price range. PS5 is obviously too high, but they probably want to be somewhat competitive with the other handhelds, but also, it makes it that much more likely to get ports from 3rd parties, especially with stuff like DLSS to help improve performance/visuals without having to run it natively. I don’t think PS5 stuff would be impossible to port and still look/run decent, and we’re still getting cross-gen games anyway. I mean, from the tech specs it’s basically a handheld Xbox Series S. Tech is closing the gap that used to be much wider. Just look at the Switch. The Wii U used to be a bulk gamepad with an even bigger console portion than the Wii (and way heavier). Now? That whole thing is crammed into a single, extremely thin, even smaller (than the gamepad) tablet while still being more powerful.
Sadly, Arlo, this was said gba->ds, ds->3ds, and 3ds-> Switch and it was just never true. For a non- Nintendo example, just a ton of stuff around Vita (that was basically entirely kept afloat by mid-range niche 3td party games after Sony all but abandoned it very early on). Wheen Switch 2 comes out it will be a replacement, Switch 1 might get a handful of in dev stuff for a bit, maybe budget 3rd party stuff cause it's cheaper to dev for, but I give about 6 months before all real support completely evaporates, if that.
GBA was still receiving plenty of games two years after the DS came out. The DS got Pokemon Black 2 and White 2 over a year after the 3DS came out. I'd expect straggling Switch 1 games into 2026 if the Switch 2 comes out early 2025.
Arlo, don't forget that the original NES and Super NES were basically cutting edge in their day and Nintendo dominated the market. The Switch era feels the most like the golden age of gaming from back then. I think they really should adopt this type of strategy and capitalize on their breakout success with the Switch.
Not exactly, the NES and SNES were weaker than the Master System and the Mega Drive that came about 3 years before the SNES. Cutting edge wasn't Nintendo's thing until the N64.
Here's how to sell a gazillion Switch 2 if it has zero new gimmicks: - Hey, it's totally retrocompatible, so you can replay BOTW and TOTK now in glorious 1080p with HQ textures. - Oh and also, Mario Odyssey 2 at launch. It's as simple as that.
lol BoTW and ToTK in 1080p on Switch 2 would be laughably bad to show off new hardware. But we most likely are getting that 4K BoTW "Remaster"/Enhancement that was shown off behind the scenes at Gamescon that runs at 4K 60FPS. Switch 2 is going to be having DLSS so QHD or 4K resolutions are much more achievable on current gen titles.
I’d also like to see a form of a roadmap for the next 2 years of what to expect for the Switch 2. They don’t necessarily have to announce future games if they want to save it for another direct or event but to settle the expectations responsibly without fans speculating too far.
Nintendo lowers the price of their consoles all the time. The Wii was eventually lowered to $100 or less at the end of its life cycle, the 3DS had multiple price slashes throughout its run, and that's just off the top of my head.
The Nintendo is the only one not affected by the video game industry imploded it’s only and Microsoft that don’t have brains and apply logic. It’s why they’re in the mess in and while Nintendo wasn’t stupid to go chasing after graphics and 4K nonsense.
You lost me at Nintendo lowers a price.
I mean they did that with the 3ds and especially the 2ds
Only because of how poorly they sold lol@@droycon
They do it with consoles...
Just not their actual games
Prior to the Switch, Nintendo would always lower the price of their games after a bit. I wouldn't be surprised to see them lower last-gen prices if they release their new console.
I think they’ll actually triple the price of the Switch 1 and make it so you can only get the Switch 2 (which will be $800) if you buy the original again. That’s the most realistic option.
One thing I feel is important in Nintendo speculations that I never really hear anyone factor in: this new console is probably the first Nintendo console that has not had Iwata's involvement in any way. And maybe the first without Reggie's involvement in any way since he first joined NOA. We are in totally uncharted territory for Nintendo as a company. No telling what their next big product is going to be or how they'll handle it.
Tbf it's not just the big guys calling the shots. Development is done by teams and designers.
Exactly
@@fluffynator6222
No, that’s not how R&D works…
Leaderships sets parameters and R&D will make the best possible product within those parameters
New leadership means new parameters
Have to agree on the one commenting before me, thats Not how R&D works at all, its usally the Boss(es) who Set the parameter and the rough outline, the team doesnt have, Res. Have almost no creative influence@@fluffynator6222
ok no one cares.
People keep forgetting that for the first time ever Nintendo‘s leadership team is different when developing the Switch2
Satoru Iwatas legacy lasted from the Wii to the Switch… we are in a new era now
Nah this goes back to gba Era with the empty words of DS not being a replacement but then absolutely was a replacement, and repeated basically every portable gen since.
But there are also still many key people from the switch dev team
Only really furukawa is new. Other than that Miyamoto, Takahashi and others have been in the leadership even before alongside being developers
The Furakawa era is upon us with Switch 2.
@@aminehsu6629the switch is a portable
I think Arlo isn't taking into account the fact that the original Switch was a mere 4 years removed from the Wii U, meaning PS3 level hardware was around a decade old. If you look back a decade from 2025, where the Switch 2 is releasing *8* years later, PS4 Pro is right on the money, hence Nintendo will be able to offer that kind of performance for no additional cost, right around the time the PS5 Pro is coming out
Yea I feel like people aren’t realizing why the Switch was “underpowered”. It came out when it did because the WiiU was a complete failure. It was essentially a band-aid solution for ninty.
Also how did this idea that the switch is weaker than the ps3/Xbox 360 start coming from?
Moreover, the Switch 2 doesn’t have the same initial R&D costs that the original switch probably had.
@@Xedefenseformthe weaker than 360/PS3 idea came from all the re-releases of 7th gen games that ran terribly on switch. However, this wasn't a hardware problem, this was because instead of porting the 360/PS3 version of a game, publishers just ported the remasters they made for the XB1/PS4 with major downgrading. That's why so many remasters ran terribly, but somehow Red dead ran perfectly. Because Rockstar's barebones port was perfect for the Switch's specs. Since Gen 8 and Gen 9 are so similar, this hopefully shouldn't be a problem with the Switch 2
@@Xedefenseform I also wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia, which is currently rolling in the dough with AI money, isn't able to come to a sweetheart deal with Nintendo for a quality chip to follow up the 3rd best selling (and counting) console of all time
The tracked shipped chips, tracked shipped RAM and TFLOP capacity with the DLSS/AI upscaling capabilities are definitely showing that Switch 2 will actually perform on par or just above a Series S level. It will be way closer to Series S instead of even PS4 Pro.
if it releases in 2025 it will have been 8 years
Big fan of this channel. Glad you’re feeling less pressure and just getting the content out there about what you’re thinking about.
Agreed! It's so fun to get Arlo's perspective on little tidbits like this as he thinks of them
Completely agreed
topicarlo is the best thing thats happened to me this month
Same. Especially w TTYD coming out this all feels like a dream
Rather have arlocast tbh
This is the saddest thing I've ever read.
@@floatingkites2420 LMAO
@@floatingkites2420OMG
Early adopters are usually hardcore fans so no matter what, Switch 2 will sell like crazy on launch
and scalpers trying to profit off the hype
@@lordderpingtonII Nintendo claims they are going big on production to combat scalpers so let’s hope it works.
@@lordderpingtonII we have physical proof that nintendo has recently ordered over 10 million screens for production, i doubt scalpers can buy enough to be a problem
Just look at the Wii.
It will be sold out immediately
I think it's a lot simpler than this. Nintendo sees playstation and xbox moving away from exclusives and they see an opportunity to take over the console market if the next switch is able to play third party AAA games day 1.
Honestly, nintendo doesn't need third party support. Having nintendo first party games coming out nearly monthly is working for them. Having a big game on their platform is good for drawing in outsiders, but it might also take away from sales that would have gone to first party titles. Nintendo first party games sell 50% of all games. Having smaller AA games as lures for fanbase outside of nintendo would work much better as a compliment for nintendo rather then having AAA games as competition.
Of course this is all based on nintendo keeping up the monthly release schedule.
@@saintlugiabut your system has to run the games. BG3 I think would have come to switch if it wasn’t super underpowered. That’s what you’re missing. So first you have to actually run the game. Then you can’t get away with running the most popular games like crap for too long. You can’t takeover if you try that. Gamers won’t all go for that. Yes people with no money will play a much worse version of a game, but a lot of people will play the better version of a game. I think they missed out on a lot of cash by not having BG3 on the switch. Would have been perfect for it.
And your argument about it’s good to run 3rd party games less well because it helps 1st party. No, this is a company. They want to make more money. And having gamers buy more games they love on their store is great for business.
@@saintlugia Third party support is important, hence why nintendo has invested into it. This time around they will take that into account more so than ever before. Hence why their new system is seemingly gonna be a big leap at least relatively. They are the one company who can survive without it as shown by the Wii U era but how did that turn out for them? Third party support is important as it gives another reason to buy and stay in the ecosystem. If you knew third party games were coming day and date to next console then u might not feel inclined to say buy PS or xbox. First party games are system sellers but after a person plays that game what then? they'll go on hiatus for the time being until the next big title. Thats where third party support comes in
Nintendo doesn't need third party support? So what's the point to show them their upcoming system behind closed doors? Nintendo indeed needs third party support, variety is more important than exclusives, that's why Nintendo is making indie directs and partners showcases.
@@saintlugia There's a lot of speculation that Xbox, and perhaps even Playstation, may exit the console market, because they really don't offer anything more than PC. Nintendo can survive on it's first-party content, so it's possible we'd only see Nintendo and PC as the available gaming platforms going forwards.
I think there's a pretty big market of semi-casual gamers that don't feel the need to go full "PC master race". For a lot of people, having a console and knowing it "just works" instead of thinking about specs just takes away some stress, even if they don't get 4K at 144 FPS. If the Switch 2 can support 70% of AAA titles with "good enough" performance, that might move maybe 10 - 20% more units.
Really hoping for 3d smell-o-vision with eight screens and a mandatory Internet connected vitality sensor and drifty joysticks.
If it doesnt file my taxes for me Im not buying!
It better be able to toast bread
Can it tuck me in?
I'd love them to go to hall effect sticks. Maybe some deluxe third party options will be available.
i wont spend a single dollar on nintendo again if they dont have a bite force sensor on their new controller!
Something to keep in mind is that the Switch completely outclasses the PS3 and 360 in terms of performance. Look at Red Dead Redemption on PS3/360 compared to Switch in docked mode. The original version of that game runs at sub 720p and can rarely ever hold 30fps, whereas the Switch can output a 1080p image that's mostly consistent at hitting 30fps. People compare the Switch to PS3/360, but that's only because the Switch was clearly less powerful than PS4/Xbone. The Switch's hardware also had a modern set of features that those older consoles didn't. On that note, the Switch is also a hybrid console and has to underclock it's performance to have satisfactory battery life in handheld mode.
The Switch 2 will be the same in that on paper it will outclass PS4/Xbone, likely even the Pro and X models, but the key difference is that it will have an extra edge by having an even more modern feature set than PS5/Series X by having hardware designed for Nvidia's AI upscaling, which is far more efficient than what AMD has managed. Comparing Nvidia hardware and AMD hardware by just reading performance numbers doesn't tell a full story anymore because of how far Nvidia has outclassed AMD with features like DLSS. Sony knowing this is why they are implementing custom upscaling technology they've developed into PS5 Pro, rather than relying on what AMD can provide them.
It won't be until we see games running on Switch 2 that we can draw a full picture, but I dont see any reason to not expect a console that on paper is close to a PS4 Pro (but with a lot more memory), but it punches above it's weight through more advanced hardware features to get image quality similar to a Series S. It will also depend on how well devs implement that technology.
Absolutely correct all around. Excellent comment
Indeed. They marketed the Wii U as being about as powerful as the PS3, even releasing Mass Effect Trilogy to showcase it. And the Switch was a step up from that, though not the equal of rival 8th-gen consoles.
I also don't think a "slow transition" would be successful. Like if you make a new console that plays the previous games, and does all the same stuff plus more that the old one couldn't then I don't think a lot of people will keep buying the old one. Maybe I'm wrong though, cause this is just based on the anecdotal evidence of people in my life dropping the GBA for the DS, and the 3DS for the Switch.
When you think about how long ago the PS4Pro came out and factor in anything about Moores Law, there is close to no reason for it not to be at least that "powerful". It should in theory be possible to make a console more than 20 times as powerful for the same price 16 times if they want to sell it for the same price as the Switch OLED and 13 times if they sell it for $299.99 even if we assume the extra cost of making it a hybrid console cuts the "power" per dollar down to one quarter it should still be over 3 times as "powerful" as the PS4Pro.
And as you said that's not even taking into account the more modern features offered by current hardware that would make it completely outclass everything that came before in an incomparable way.
One thing that people forget when comparing the Switch to the Gen 6 consoles is just how small the Switch is... it's probably a similar internal volume to the Xbox 360's _controller_ let alone the console itself even at its slimmest (360 E variant).
And if the rumors of using and Nvidia Ampere based GPU are true, than at least in terms of hardware _generation_ it will be on par with the Series X and PS5 (though obviously using a smaller power budget). Plus that's generational equivalent on an Nvidia chip, meaning DLSS 3 compatibility, which if Nintendo has been paying attention, will prove essential in the performance of the Switch successor up to modern demands.
Kinda funny how successful this channel is going. I always thought I was alone in loving to watch Arlo videos so much lol
the only problem i see with this is that offering crossgen for the first few years means the new console is catered ONLY to those who really want more power while an entire new system with exclusive games will get everyone to say hey i need to get that, otherwise the vast majority of people will be like why bother spending 400 bucks when i can have essentially the same experience for no extra cost
Yeah I hope their able to hard switch fast. The cross gen on Playstation 5 really killed the momentum on it with that new report the other day that only half of the PS4 user base made the switch 4 years in.
I think that's the point. Nintendo probably knows there's no way this next console will outsell the Switch anyway, so they might as well take advantage of the existing user base. Software generates way more profit than hardware
It sounds great on paper, and it makes for current gen consoles to be a compelling buy... for _new_ owners. Having never owned a Playstation in my life (well, I now own a PS1, but that was recent, and free) I feel no need to ever buy a PS4. If I wanted to get into that ecosystem I'd buy a PS5 and pickup games for either console as I desire (now I find zero reason to do this now that Sony is porting to PC, but I digress). For existing owners, there's very little reason to upgrade until the cross gen goes away. When the Xbox One came out, I didn't buy it immediately, with games coming out cross gen, games like Destiny, Assassin's Creed: Black Flag, Titanfall, and Battlefield 4 were all Still available on my Xbox 360. It wasn't until I felt like I was missing out on next gen exclusives that I finally bought an Xbox One (in a discounted bundle during an after Christmas sale...) and when the Series consoles rolled out the same thing happened. Only this time I now had a PC that could play everything either generation was coming out with, and with the much more extended support window of Xbox One and PS4 after their successors' release, it's only now four years later (well probably more like last year) that there's even a reason to consider upgrading.
This makes me hope that the new Switch will have some interesting new feature that Nintendo uses in its new games. While I wouldn’t mind a more powerful Switch, the creativity and risk-taking that Nintendo does with its consoles is something I like. Maybe it supports attachments that can extend its features such as a proper VR display with 6dof tracking used for Metroid Prime 4, or an additional screen that allows it to cleanly run 3DS ports, or cameras that extend its functionality further. Something that won’t get in the way of those that don’t want it, but that can add to the experience for those that do.
Totally agree... going too hard on "cross-gen" has made Xbox Series and PS5 seem useless.
Probably not going to happen. Both Xbox and PlayStation have struggled with sales by being too expensive and by supporting last gen.
PS4 pro level hardware should be easy to make portable and on a budget.
It would make sense for them to mark down the switch, especially the lite.
A 100$ switch lite is an unbeatable deal imo
It's not an unprecedented price point either, I think both the GameCube and the Wii sold for $100 at the ends of their respective lifespans (GameCube might have officially been lowered to below that after the Wii came out, can't remember).
I really feel like you're underselling the Switch by saying it's a 360. Like the Switch has eight times the ram alone
It's closer to a PS3 pro
@@gumpyflyale2542After playing need for speed hot pursuit remastered on Switch I can say the graphics on the Switch are better then what the 360 or PS3 ever had.
@@gumpyflyale2542 ... Was there ever a PS3 pro?
But yeah, I think nostalgia glasses make people take for granted just how much of a jump the PS2 -> PS3 gen felt at the time, and simultaneously it's making them forget just how much *worse* that looks compared to the next two generations of games. PS3 gen felt the closest to photorealistic we'd gotten when it came out, but it's relative. Now it'd feel so very wrong to call almost every game on it photorealistic (except maybe something like The Last of Us in parts which is a rare exception).
They better not emulate Switch 1 games on the Switch 2. It's all the same architecture. I agree that backwards compatibility is going to be a given. The moment they got away from their proprietary systems from the Wii U and backwards, their 3rd party partnerships exploded and opened up the perfect path for this.
If the rumors are to be believed, the power of a PS4 Pro is a pretty good fit for a handheld/hybrid console at the moment. I mean, if that’s what this even ends up being. You do gotta consider that if this continues to be intended as a hybrid handheld with docking and playing traditionally as a key feature, these specs still put it behind the curve compared to proper home consoles. Trying to hit 1080p, and being able to fake it till you make it up to a 4K display, really should be the “good enough” for a console like this, at this point.
Glad Arlo points it out himself at the end, because yes, I am sick and tired of gaming youtubers uttering the phrase "it makes SO much sense" or "it makes ALL the sense in the world", like they are suddenly proclaiming themselves experts on the subject.
If experience should tell us anything, Nintendo doesn’t always do the thing that makes the most apparent sense to us. They have highly experienced people making decisions carefully, considering factors that we are likely completely unaware of, with goals that don’t align with ours.
@@EMLtheViewer And that’s all well and good, but I still hate that phrase.
Nintendo will focus on upscaling because that will allow handheld market to keep up with current gen games but also allows them to develop games at a much lower cost than the rest of the industry for the same quality/appearance of results.
I think they will make upscaling more apparently the best future path for gaming both from a consumer and from a development point of view
Mhm. With the architecture the Switch 2 is rocking, it's going to have DLSS 2.0 but eventually DLSS 2.0 will fall behind as it isn't Nvidia's main form of upscaling anymore and Nintendo knows this. That's why they have their own patent for upscaling, most likely being re-engineered DLSS.
If Switch 2 is $400 there's no reason to drop the price of the original. They'd probably leave the Lite and OG right where they are and discontinue the OLED (don't need a premium Switch 1 if premium customers are all buying Switch 2). Then they have entry points at $200, $300, $400 which is pretty clear and easy to communicate.
i think it would be better to phase out OG switch and then drop the OLED’s price to the OG’s price instead of just phasing out the better version of the OG switch
No they will drop it they want to sell 160 million and beat the PS2 sales
I think fans care waaay more about that than Nintendo does. They are a business. Winning for them is maximizing profit. Not having the number 1 system on a Wikipedia page.
I doubt you can realistically sell a PS4 Pro level portable system at 400 bucks and still make a profit, which is something Nintendo likes to do with their hardware.
I'm thinking it's at least 500 dollars, and maybe even 600 dollars.
@@Mecawallace I don't think it will be PS4 Pro level. Arlo assumed that from a leak of 12 GB RAM, which is an important measure, but gives no real indication of power, just active memory.
That’s a bad idea, devs will need to make games for two console which ruins everything
$20 to upgrade each game is insane. That's hundreds of dollars for your average switch collection.
He means the newly released cross gen games not the old stuff
Like if they release a game on both the Switch 1 and 2 and you buy the Switch 1 version. You could upgrade to the Switch 2 version. Reminds me of Call of Duty Ghosts when the PS4 came out.
@@KBXbandI wish Nintendo handled it this way with Mario Kart 8 and other Wii U ports.
@@Oscar-Guzman Me too
@@BBWahoo Knowing Nintendo they will just make it $70 and there will be nothing you can do about it.
Appreciate your take Arlo, but I think from Nintendo's point of view they can't wait to stop releasing games for Switch because of the switchs piracy problem. All their big releases keep getting leaked online multiple days ahead of release. And because of the hardware issue of the first generation Switch they can do nothing about that.
An emulator will *always* be made for a new console. Might as well be an honorary rule of the internet at this point. The history of how people find loopholes in new consoles is really interesting.
I just hope this doesn't turn out to be like the 'new nintendo 3ds', where while it was more powerful, no developer would make a game only for a subsection of the 3DS family of systems
You’re overthinking things. They will not make cross generational games. They have to sell the new hardware with new software.
But why not continue supporting the goldmine that is Switch 1 for a while, until they establish the new system. I mean it has a 120m+ userbase, for crying out loud! They'd be crazy not to, IMHO.
@@Jalex0021 because this would be like having two consoles, as it was in the Wii/DS era, only more complicated, because the devs would have to program the game twice, with parameters that meet the sw1 and sw2 in docked and portable mode. That would take a lot of work, and honestly, the sw1 isn't worth all that effort just to bring an inferior game to it since what people ask for most is a more powerful console with more resources
because tony hawk's pro skater 3 for the PlayStation sucked and played like a mod for Pro Skater 2 while the Playstation 2 version was its own thing.
@@Jalex0021While there may be a few multiplatform games, I think it’s mostly going to be like the DS-3DS transition, where the majority of resources are focused into the new console, but there are a few games still coming out for the old system (which are backwards compatible with the new one). But if they focus too many resources into milking the last little bit out of the OG Switch, they’ll cannibalize the new Switch’s market share, which screws them over long-term.
@@jaredhamilton8694Or the early switch day support with the 3DS. These are noticeably budget titles for the sake of support. More Wii U port and smaller title(like Wario ware or Mario party)
This daydreaming is cool but you forgot you're talking about Nintendo. They're gonna do some wild ass shit and we'll see if it sticks
I really want to believe they learned from the wii u
@@guusthomassen9945 Nintendo is gonna Nintendo. And I for one appreciate them for it. They take big swings. Sometimes they miss. Sometimes they hit it out of the park. I don't want them to lose that edge, even at the expense of failure.
@@damionmurray8244 that's fair
If Nintendo still uses GameCube era tech for their next console, I'm gonna LOSE IT!!!
Build a system at a good price point with a Mario game, a Zelda game, etc. and you're golden, Nintendo.
Imagine how big the Switch 2 would be if you could play games like Balders Gate 3, Elden Ring, Final Fantasy 7, and a ton more current gen games on it. And you know Nintendo is out there making deals. Remember when Skyrim had Zelda items in it's release for the Switch? Imagine an exclusive Baldurs Gate 3 DLC that adds Mario costumes. Or Elden Ring DLC that adds the Master Sword. It could be GREAT
Nintendo's gonna make me question purchasing a Steam Deck.
was just playing Elden Ring yesterday and imagining LoZ cosmetics/items in a Switch 2 release... I never double dip on games but I'd make an exception if Fromsoftware cuts a deal with Nintendo
@@7thHourFilms It's a great machine, but in terms of visual quality, the Switch 2 at the minimum should excel over the Deck just from optimization.
imho I can't imagine a worse scenario than the Switch 2 being as powerful as a PS4 Pro but having all its first party software for the first two years developed with the mandate of being able to run a compromised version that's still essentially the same game on the PS3. I'm sorry Arlo but this is a bad idea.
New 1st party games have to be Switch 2 exclusive at this point
Yeah, like Arlo is basically saying that Nintendo should do what PS and Xbox are doing, but with lesser graphics
One thing that speaks for a more powerful Switch 2 are the Steam Deck and all the other new handhelds. I don't think Nintendo can afford a "less than PS4" performance product this time around. I hope the Switch 2 will utilize the docking station more and add some horse power into that. So that the system can run at a minimum 1440p 60fps while docked and 1080 60fps on handheld. With this they wouldn't have to compromise on performance vs battery life/weight as much. Anything less (performance wise) and I don't think I'll replace my steam deck. Or maybe it will be something completely different, who knows.
Looking forward to the announcement.
I will say that if this is the case I hope the next 3D Zelda doesn't come until they decide to fully embrace Switch 2. I want it to take full advantage of the new console's power.
That wont come out until like 2026 at least lol
Totk JUST came out. We have a long time until the next 3d zelda
If anything, I'm betting the "Inter-Generational at Release" game won't be a Zelda but Metroid Prime 4 in this case.
Think about how the Inter-Generational move worked for Zelda. Maybe not the main cause of Zelda going from underdog to a steady franchise, but somehow it must have been related.
I'm pretty sure Nintendo now wants Metroid to take this underdog to steady leap. They only have few series that could become the 5th pillar of Nintendo after Mario, Zelda, Animal Crossing and Splatoon, and Metroid has built up expectation since the praised Metroid Dread.
All of this to say that Zelda definitely will not have another game at release. At most, a DLC to TotK, although they already said they don't want to develop DLC for TotK. Regardless, I expect having the next mainline Zelda after 2026. Maybe we get a remaster of any of the 3D games (64 Duology, WW, TP, SS), a Link's Awakening-like remake for any of the 2D games or another spinoff while we wait.
@@fgvcosmic6752 Plus they confirmed it's the last of its kind. TotK captures the pinnacle and apotheosis of that type of open-world Zelda formula/game, according to an interview I saw recently (can't post links or my comment gets censored, sorry, you'll have to look it up yourself if you're curious because YT likes to stifle honest discourse on their platform). I'm guessing based on the parameters of what they said, that they'll be making more open-world Zelda games with certainty, but none of them will be using the same formula as BotW/TotK.
I'm extremely curious what they'll do next. BotW is gonna keep me occupied for probably another year at this point lol, such an immense game. Then I'll return it to my best friend and then borrow Persona 5 (after I'm done with P4G, my new favorite game of all time), and at his request I'll play his copy of TotK after P5R. I'm in games overload even with just those lol, and I have hundreds in my PC backlog and dozens in my Switch eShop backlog. Not to mention I've been working through Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate on my New 3DS (finally clicked 6-7 years after my first attempt to get into it), recently bought Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate for my Switch, recently borrowed Monster Hunter Rise from the same friend I mentioned (and Metroid Dread), and am about to get sucked into buying the Humble Bundle with Monster Hunter World, Iceborne, Rise, and Sunbreak. Ahhhhh so many games, I don't know where I'll find the time lmao
What’s most realistic is that it launches at $400 and by holiday 26 it drops by $50 or so and probably stays there for the rest of the console generation. They know that a $350 switch can sell based off of the OLED model but at the same time they probably know $400 might be a tough pill to swallow for parents looking to get something for the kids.
What if they go for a two console strategy, one $300 model with PS4 power and $400 model with PS4 Pro power, I think maybe only one sku is too dangerous for Nintendo. The $300 one can include some new gimmick for causal appeal while the $400 model is an attempt Nintendo jumping back to the hardcore market. The demands for casual and hardcore switch user is splitting as years go by so this can be their strategy.
To avoid the Wii U and 3DS problem, the cheaper and expensive model is on the same platform first party wise with the more expensive console getting third party as exclusive.
The only way this can work is, for example, they will have to release the lite version of switch 2 in the same period as the switch 2 so the marketing will be you can give this for personal use ( lite) or you can buy the base model for extra 100$ with all features and a family use and much more power to play more games
The fact that the rest of the industry is imploding, while Nintendo remains untouchable, should give all other companies something to learn.
Nintendo would have to be fools to think they aren’t one screw up from joining the rest of the them. Even their successful systems have had issues (I’m looking at you Wii with your very poor attachment rate).
sony doing great super sales revenue increases.. bets selling console last 2 years..
@@leeartlee915 Nintendo has shown themselves to be a smart company with better future planning than almost every other video game company out there. They aren't 134 years old for nothing, and they have survived massive screw ups before. So I'm putting them at 2 massive screw ups before I'm going to start to be concerned.
@@lemoncakeslemonade5430 Sure. The good money would be betting on them. But keep in mind, had the Switch failed, it was all but confirmed that they were leaving the hardware business. So there is less wiggle room than you would think.
@@leeartlee915 Hence why I said I'm giving them two screw ups- had the Switch failed, it would have been their second. They're not in an infallible position, and they definitely have to move carefully, but they are in a better position than most of their competitors due to the way that they've structured their company and conducted business.
I just really hope the Switch 2 has a significant gimmick that differentiates it enough from the OG Switch that gives people a new way to play/interact with their games. I'm all for more power, but I feel like a Switch successor wouldn't be as interesting without that "Nintendo twist". Ideally it'd be an optional feature like the 3D slider on the 3DS where it's something you can use if you so choose, but for those who don't care for it, they can just not interact with it or turn it off and still reap the benefits of a more powerful system. Everybody wins.
I’m 90% sure it will just because Nintendo seems to have little confidence in marketing performance alone. (Not that I blame them.)
Probably dumb, but if the Switch 2 would have a gimmick, it would be VR, or at least more implementations of it. (I'm not sure how the vanilla Switch implemented it, but I think it was just some camera mods for a literal handful of games.) This way, they could also try the handheld console AND VR markets, even if, at the start, they're still just adding camera functionality to games.
Hopefully they don't pull a Wii U again though... it's not just about showing off the gimmick, show off that's it's a new system with new capabilities. I know people that even late into the Wii U's lifespan thought it was just a controller accessory for the Wii. It needs to have a good name too. Switch 2 might work, but if it's not Switch 2, then it probably needs to just ditch the name Switch entirely to prevent confusion...
@@poisonedsoap1341 with the way other VR headsets are trending, making essentially a big, bulky Google Cardboard again (or even a big, bulky GearVR) will do nothing but waste R&D. As it stands the Switch is far too big to be a feasible strap-on HMD, and the successor isn't going to get smaller (in the dimensions that matter here). The disappearance of smartphone-based VR is proving that modern VR needs a dedicated HMD to create experiences that people find valuable enough to justify strapping a bulky computer to their face.
@@poisonedsoap1341 If I recall all the VR stuff was in Nintendo Labo, but they did run through a couple patents for a proper VR headset, and with VR being much further along then it was back when the switch first came out, I could definitely see the switch 2 having some level of VR functionality
I cant wait for the Switch 2 to come out and prove to everyone again that Nintendo always does the one thing noone expects.
The cross-gen game release model hasn’t been this “pot of gold” formula that some seem to spin it as.
It devalues incentive to purchase a new system (the only reason PS5 isn’t lagging more behind the PS4 rn is because of early fomo, goodwill from PS4, and third-party. Even then, it’s definitely tracking to be less popular than its predecessor), it restrains developers from utilizing the full power of the new console, it takes a serious edge off of the hype, and ESPECIALLY in Nintendo’s case where their IP and software are their lifeblood, it’ll confuse audiences about the necessity of a new system.
With how long developers have been holding on to PS4 and Xbone releases it should be a huge catalog for Switch to capture.
I definitely think the Switch 2 should have DS/3DS compatibility in some way though
>more powerful version of the same console
>Games are released for both the original and the new one, but games on the new one run/look better
Arlo, you're describing a switch PRO not a sequel to the switch. If Nintendo wanted to do what you're suggesting they would have announced a pro model ages ago instead of announcing a new console.
Is the PS5 just a PS4 Pro-Pro then?
@@ColossalMwell..
@@ColossalM😅
Yeah I can't imagine switch 2 games running on switch 1. Adding that as a performance mode is likely not as simple as dropping refresh rate and resolution, especially when 1080p 30 fps is the lowest they could possibility get away with on a docked switch 2. Nintendo wants to sell a new console and eventually discontinue the Nintendo Switch Online Service, so they want to move people onto the next as fast as possible.
Sorry but… are you 12? Cross-gen games have been a thing for generations. Studios (include the console manufacturer) aren’t going to have a hard drop with the new console because they still have games mid-development, there’s still a huge player base playing the original, and companies aren’t going to want to drop supporting that huge audience for a new, untested market.
It’s not like he said “for it’s whole life” he’s just saying for the first little while, which has been true since forever. The first 2 or 3 years of a console tends to have cross-gen games. Some Nintendo consoles have had a hard cut than others, but only because it was either a failure, or Nintendo kept it alive longer than the audience/studios were interested in. But that’s generally not the case, and given Switch has a high attach rate even this many years in, and the console itself has been supported longer than any other Nintendo console, it doesn’t make sense to look at it from that previous perspective because it’s not under those same circumstances.
"I've been thinking about it... As Arlos are wont to do" ~ is this new lore? Are Arlos actually a race of monster?
yup www.youtube.com/@cosmowhispers
Yup I tried to comment the channel link but CZcams marked it as spam, there’s this random asmr channel that is the exact same monster as arlo but it’s pink
Arlo says this pretty frequently - as Arlos are won’t to do.
Baldurs Gate 3 on Switch 2 will be very hard to pull off as its not optimized very well and Larian said they are done with BG3 so no special dlc coming from them, would haver to be Panic Button porting it. Baldurs Gate 3 runs poorly on Steam Deck. Elden Ring and FF7Remake I think is a lock thoug
Arlo used to say this more frequently. Been a hot minute since he last said it now.
If this becomes the case, then I would bet that the Switch would end up becoming basically the handheld department. Like with the DS and 3DS. They put smaller games or offshoots of mainline games on there.
Tbh I feel like Nintendo should be focusing on giving the vast amount of people who have a switch to go over to the Switch 2. I feel like this video treats Switch 2 more like what the New 3DS was to the OG 3DS rather than what I think itll be, DS to 3DS. I feel like its fair to assume Switch 2 will be $400 and itll have enough first and third party excluives that'll push people onto the console. Maybe a new feature like a camera too to reil in the casual crowd.
Switch 2 is NOT going to emulate Switch 1 games… that would make fuck all sense. They put an entire Wii into a WiiU to provide native play. They did the same with 3DS. Even the DS was able to play GBA games NATIVE. No emulation. Not gonna happen, it would be pretty awful if they did do that.
Arlo probably just doesn't fully know what emulation mean lul, and means native support by "emulation"
The Wii U could straight up play Gamecube games off a storage drive as well, as a result of vWii and Nintendont.
No disrespect to Arlo. I love him. I just really doubt they’d use emulation.
Did people really believe the switch 2 would be on a similar power as a ps4 ? The original switch isn’t too far behind a ps4 and both the switch and WII U surpass the ps3 so i would expect to think the switch 2 would be at least ps4 pro.
From rumours it actually appears the switch 2 will be more powerful than the ps4 pro but not on the level as the ps5
Arlo doesn't know what he's talking about with hardware
Tbh, not entirely sure why you're so stunned at the idea of the next console being as powerful as the ps4 pro. The pro came out towards the end of 2016, over 8 years from when switch 2 is expected to release.
The updated models of the 360 came out in 2010 and 2013, 7-4 years before the switch came out, yet the switch adapted that tech fine
Switch 2 being as strong as the ps4 pro is more than a probability, its borderline expected. Sometimes, it's hard to recognize the progress gaming tech is at, what with how impressive last gen was, but the newest thing's were seeing is damn neat photo realistic, something you dont get with last gen tech. And that gen is being more integrated into our daily lives outside of just gaming.
You might be right that switch 2 might not be that strong, but it's not at all unrealistic to expect it to be, looking back at the history of nintendo consoles.
Completely cross gen is a bad idea because software sells hardware. Switch 2 needs those first party exclusives to entice the market to buy into it.
Nintendo should make Goldeneye 007 Remastered on the Switch. I miss the good ol' days when we would sit together with a split screen and yell at each other about screen peeking! God forbid they make a game with a co-op campaign that doesn't require an online subscription...
I seriously doubt this. Making games that target an 8 year old Switch 1 as well as a new Switch 2 would add a lot of dev time for every game. I think Nintendo can keep selling the Switch 1 on its existing huge library without needing to make new cross-gen games for it. As for "emulation", I seriously doubt it. Most modern APUs offer pretty consistent instructuon sets, and low-level libraries are also getting more consistent. That's why you can play most 20 PC games with pretty much no hassle. I'd expect the same from the Switch 2.
The thing that you didn't account for is that to be as powerful as a ps4 pro the chip would have to run at its highest energy draw, which would mean really low battery life for a handheld. Much more likely is that they will downclock the chip to get better battery life, which would bring it back down to about a ps4
@malachor5ve That's assuming PS4 Pro architecture. Under a modern architecture (which based on the rumors of an Nvidia Ampere-based chip, would be at least two process nodes smaller, 16nm vs 10nm, if using Samsung 8N like RTX 3000, or 7nm, if using TSMC N7 like in the workstation cards, potentially even smaller if they reuse the architecture on today's process nodes) it would draw quite a bit less power. And that's before noting that PS4 is based on x86-64 architecture, vs Switch's ARMv8-A architecture, the latter is much more power efficient, which is why it's used in mobile devices.
Now in handled mode there will probably still be power budget constraints in the name of battery life. And honestly, I wouldn't even mind it sticking to a 720p display, the Steam Deck is 720p (+ some vertical height, hence 800p, same width though) and I really don't feel the need for more at the screen size. But I think the more apt place to look for comparisons right now is the handheld gaming PC market, which are running modern AAA games with fair compromises just fine portably. And assuming Nintendo is going to stick with bumping up the power draw when docked, the PS4 Pro comparison still sounds like a fair one to make.
I think that they will do their best to make sure that people know it is not the switch to avoid wii u syndrome
As new consoles get more generalized game engines and operating systems, emulation becomes easier, with fidelity quickly becoming the limiting factor. Even with vastly different hardware, I would be surprised if backwards compatibility would be a hurdle, let alone even require emulation.
Two points: firstly, while I do expect there to be several cross gen titles in the systems early life, I really don't think ALL of them will be. If they want to guarantee it's success then I really think it will still need something like Mario kart 9 all to itself.
Second, at the investors meeting they talked about how their games were going to take longer to produce, meaning their output Will probably shrink. For this reason they may be trying to be more accommodating for third party developers to help keep the software flow going.
True, but about their games taking longer to produce, while it's truth, Nintendo unlike Sony and Microsoft has plenty simplier (while still hitters) games to avoid a dry, such any mario spinoff, kirby, a 2d metroid, and pretty much all the non-mainline games of their franchises or even things like kid icarus or f-zero if they ever needed to put them out of the death, it will probably consist on a good Nintendo release each month (not necesarilly a big scoped game, just like switch, even though i think they will try to at least first year to fully establish the system), and third parties to get the library stronger each month (what indies do now but with a much bigger comercial impact), something like a modern ps2 or ps1 but with all nintendo games each month (something ps didn't have), just think about a Xenoblade 4, and month or two after you got something as big a gta vi in the same system
I suspect Mario Kart 9 will be either a launch or first year title. It's been a decade since 8 released on the Wii U. The switch survived off of the port and it still sold gangbusters. I'm betting they've been keeping it in reserve to drive sales of the Switch 2.
They said it would take longer, but that doesn’t quantify “by how much”. I honestly don’t think it’ll be by a huge margin, they’re just prefacing for investors getting their parties in a bunch by the smallest differences. I highly doubt after years of having roughly one exclusive a month, that they’re going to want to push to where that’s impossible to maintain. They’re not going to stoop down to Xbox’s “1 game a quarter” which isn’t even something they achieve, but a goal they want, lol. Likely just saying that because the 1st year is obviously going to be slower.
I love this channel. I love the main channel too, but the fact that this is just a “no pressure” channel is excellent.
I don’t think they’ll do the cross gen strategy. What I think they’ll do is Switch 2 exclusives to wow us into getting the new system, meanwhile they’ll do a lot of remakes / remasters of GameCube, Wii and 3DS games for Switch 1.
Yes. You need to stop making games for the old system if you want people to buy the new system.
@@damianvila the ps5 is doing the exact same thing arlo is talking about and it’s successful
@@ironjerm the ps5 is dying and sony is making a new system after only 4 years on the market
@@lordderpingtonII everyone is plans a new console this early genius. They don’t come up with it within one year. The ps5 sold 50 million consoles with a pro coming out soon. Not only that but a new ceo is coming too. Nintendo can use the same tactic but in the hybrid market and use their own exclusives to their advantage
Main reasoning for the cross gen period currently was because of hardware constraints. Nintendo will not go for a crossgen strategy outside of specific launch titles or maybe pokemon. At best they will put smaller games like say warioware or princess peach showtime on both platforms to help sell and give games to switch owners
Tho if nintendo does do what arlo says. I expect them to quickly phase out. We saw with the 3ds sales numbers they were a bit disappointing which is why nintendo paused 3ds support. Unlike PS or Xbox, Nintendo's draw heavily relies on its first party output so people will transition for those games. Considering install size of switch people will likely stay on it till a Lite, oled, or a specific game so it is smart for nintendo to still appease that group but I don't know if they want to cannabalize sizes in the long term. It depends on if they want to focus more on software than hardware such as maybe possibly selling the system at a loss. New President and new era for nintendo so we might see shifts in strategy, tho not far removed, compared to previous nintendo
That would piggy back well with a Nintendo selects like brand coming back
I think I made a comment about this on the last video about the switch 2 - the switch lite could effectively become Nintendo's handheld system for this generation
Absolutely! That’s how they advertise it, as a mobile device. I think Switch 2 will be $400 (50 more than the OLED), and they’ll keep the Lite ($200) as the mobile option. There’s no reason to keep the regular Switch, as it could cannibalize the Switch 2, with its massive catalog. Switch’s 1 catalog should be an incentive for buyers to buy a Switch 2. Keeping the 1 may temp people to buy the 1 instead, or not transitioning it if they have it and games keep being made.
This whole topic Arlo channel is really great for one reason
I get more Arlo
I've said this over on Nintendoland's vid but since the conversation seems to be steering here anyway, let me just say that, after everything Iwata and Reggie have gameplanned, after all the seeing what sticks method Nintendo had for years, it really feels like they nailed it with the Switch, yknow? No more gimmicky peripherals or ridiculous price points.
After all the hard work, Nintendo fucking nailed a perfect formula for at home and on the go gameplay that no one can compete with.
THIS. I avoided Nintendo for twenty friggin years because of their stupid gimmicks. The switch brought me back. Kirby plays like SNES Kirby again. Zelda has exploration again. Mario is a fairly simple 2D sidescroller again. I don't care about yarn. I don't want to be nagged about where to go next, and I don't wanna chase stupid baby penguins. I also don't wanna scribble on a screen with a stylus or do stupid gestures when a button press works just fine.
The switch 2 just needs to be a more powerful version of the switch with its own games and backwards compatibility. If you owned the game on the switch it should be free to download and play on the switch 2. Ideally it should have a regular switch cartridge slot for your physical games as well, but that might add cost.
@@TheRealNintendoKid I liked the gimmicks of the Wii. It made Nintendo stand out from both Sony and Microsoft in that generation and it was why they won.
I hope this is not a Monkey Paw and we can break out of Wii -> WiiU, 3DS -> NEW 3DS failures
I don't think new 3DS was a failure, but it certainly didn't ever justify itself as an upgrade for existing 3DS owners.
Arlo spitting plain gold everyday. The only word I heard this past week is Nintendo and I'm just fine with it
This is such a terrible idea. The PS5 and Xbox flopped on their faces by doing this cross release strategy. Nintendo should give us very compelling Switch 2 exclusives right away or there's never a reason to buy a system. You can't "soft launch" like this and expect to keep your momentum.
Two things:
1. In what world did the PS5 flop?
2. The power difference between a PS4 Pro and a PS5 vs a Switch and the proposed Switch 2 is very different. The less a consumer needs to look at the two side-by-side to see the difference, the better off you are.
This the reason I haven’t gotten a ps5 yet lol
@@armaldosmigolton7439 in the world where they were barely able to release 5 or 10 exclusives in the first 3 years, and then say they have 0 first party exclusives ready for 2024. Sure the system is selling well, but this generation has been an utter crapshow so far in terms of software output. In my opinion, if you don't have the software lineup to support a system, you should reconsider releasing a system (for $500 no less)
You know, I was thinking about getting a Switch lately but if the next one has backwards compatibility I might just wait and get it instead to play Switch games on it
Arlo’s channels are now like children. First, the main channel was the only child so they got all the love; now, there’s a new channel so all of the videos are going to it. But Arlo still occasionally uploads to his main channel to make sure it knows he loves it still. But the new channel is still getting the most attention
I know he loves both his channels but I just noticed a funny comparison
It's pretty great, actually. He gets to talk about whatever he wants now without the worry that it's not worth a main channel video, AND the general quality of main channel videos goes up.
Win/Win for Arloheads.
@@diccchocolate416Oh no I totally recognize that. Again I just noticed a funny comparison is all. But when you put it like that, his main channel becomes his quality child, while TopicArlo becomes his quantity child. Which makes it even funnier to look at it that way
And then there’s Arlocast, which left to get the milk and never came back… 😔
And arlocast is his neglected child that he's estranged with
@@Aidswayz feed the fat boy
Its about a PS4 in handheld and PS4 Pro docked.
It most likely will end up at $400, I agree that price cuts to the Switch 1 are likely after launch.
Nintendo's strategy this gen is pretty clear. Have the the same excellent selection of exclusive titles that make people want to purchase the system, and give the Switch 2 enough power to make third party games both easy to port and relatively performant compared to the competition. Make it so there are few (if any for a lot of people) compelling reasons to purchase a competitors console. Massively grow revenue from 3rd party game sales.
It's a little bit hard to tell at the moment what the performance will be like in practice, despite the majority of the spec leaking in some form or another. We've been cross-referencing public info and various leaks over the past few years over on the DF Discord (a lot of it via Famiboards), and while it does paint a fairly detailed picture of the console's architecture, we are missing a few crucial pieces of info: the process node the SoC will be manufactured on, and by more importantly the clock speeds said SoC will be running at.
@@SteelSkin667 Yeah it's hard to tell but PS4 in handheld (without DLSS) and PS4 Pro in Docked (without DLSS) is good enough. Don't remember who said it but they said that the Switch 2 will be above the PS4 in handheld (without DLSS) and above PS4 Pro in Docked (without DLSS), which is still a similar level. However powerful it will be, at the MINIMUM, DLSS+Full Scale optimization will make it excel over the Steam Deck
@@SteelSkin667 Glad to see someone else on here whose pretty well informed about the specs.
You're right, it'll come down to the clocks, and that'll be largely determined by the node. I'm not sure what the DF discord thinks the most probable node is but over on Famiboards the general consensus is that T239 is fabbed on TSMC 4N.
There's been pretty extensive analysis done to show that Samsung 8N is likely not a viable node. Orin power data shows that when configured the same as T239 in terms of CPU core and SM count, and running at the lowest clocks with all extra IP blocks disabled, the device would draw about 60% more power than TX1 (Erista, 20nm) in handheld mode. Even assuming power savings from having a single CPU cluster and GPC as well as the additional silicon blocks of T234 absent, T239 on 8N still blows well past a reasonable handheld power budget.
To the contrary, there's quite a bit of evidence suggesting 4N. T239 shares Grace's LPDDR5X controller design and was taped out the same time as it and Lovelace GPUs (those also being 4N). T239 on 4N would also end up being only about $5 more expensive than on 8N in terms of die cost. There's a lot more I can go into but Famiboards has already done a much better job.
Anyways, given the assumption that it is on 4N, we can expect roughly 600MHz handheld GPU clocks and roughly double those clocks for the GPU while docked. This gives about 2 TFLOPs FP32 handheld and 4 TFLOPs docked. I did a comparison of GCN (Polaris) to RDNA2, and then RDNA 2 to Ampere (I couldn't find many strong direct Ampere to Polaris comparisons at iso-frequencies) and per 1 TFLOP, GCN and Ampere deliver roughly equivalent raster performance, with it slightly in favor of the latter. So with PS4 Pro having a 4.1 TFLOP GPU, if T239's GPU delivers around 3.5-4 TFLOPs docked raster performance will be very similar between the two consoles.
@@2intheampm512 Yeah, we've been running the same numbers, and came to similar conclusions. The only reason why we can't completely rule out the notion that T239 would still be using the old 8nm node, only at really low clock speeds (less than half of what you've stated above), is because so far SEC8 has been mentioned a lot more often than TSMC 4N when discussing T239.
Personally I think that 4N is a bit more likely for the reasons you have underlined, but until some hard evidence of it transpires, most of us including the DF team are still operating under the assumption that it'll be SEC8 or a derivative thereof. I guess we'll have to see.
@@SteelSkin667 The issue with running at sub ~400MHz clocks is that it's below 8N frequency/efficiency peak. One would assume that they would instead go with an 8 SM GPU and clock it to that point of max efficiency in handheld instead of the extra die area the 4 SMs occupy. But who knows, 8N is certainly still possible. If Nvidia managed to pull it off I'll be very impressed. And yeah it generally sounds like you guys on there have reached a similar conclusion
I am going to keep it simple.
The Switch does not exist in a vacuum anymore. It will not reign supreme when a new breed of portable gaming systems with better graphics, more processing power, better battery life, larger game selection powered by the Steam store and other online options, and a better online and user modifiable experience takes hold.
Oh man, I left my blue Arlo without a leash and now has gone onto creating a channel talking about random Nintendo stuff and speculating about Nintendo's strategies from the foreseeable future
This seems like the thing people thought the WiiU was, and that killed the WiiU
I'm going to echo what other commenters are saying: The lack of quantity of true PS5/XBSX exclusives has really hindered their sales especially PS5 which even if we disregard its availability at the start currently has less than 20 exclusives half way through its life and around 5 actual exclusives rn when counting PC releases and its clear games like FF7Rebirth and FF16 suffered tremendously from that. So hopefully they make true exclusives out of the gate so we don't get a situation where the later non cross gen games underperform like on the PS5.
I gotta disagree, Arlo. The new switch NEEDS to be a substantial jump in power. Future proper 3rd party support and the ambition of new Nintendo titles depend on the new model being a big upgrade. The current switch is operating on archaic technology compared to its competitors. It was weak back when it released, and it's been 7 years. I love the system, but it can barely even play its own games anymore. I can't play Tears of the Kingdom without massive lag spikes when performing the most simple of game mechanics. I'm not expecting the thing to be competitive with Microsoft, Sony, or PCs, but if switch 2 isn't strong enough to play all of their current 1st party games without chugging I'm going to be very irritated. The PS4 pro came out in 2016! This thing is likely not coming out until 2025. That'll mean that technology will be nearly a decade old by the time the switch 2 releases. If they release something that's weaker than decade old technology and then expect their customers to endure that underpowered machine for another 7 year-long console generation cycle... that'll be too much. I know they'll be behind, but they can't be THAT far behind.
This idea you have about cross generation support could be interesting. Having different models with different levels of power at different prices would be an ideal solution. I'm willing to pay more for a beefier system. I just wish Nintendo gave me the option to buy a model with more competitive power. Nintendo games are so special. It's time to see that love and excellence they put in their games at 4k and 60fps already.
I can imagine there being a fair few cross-plat releases, but surely Mario Kart 9 HAS to be a Switch 2 exclusive
Smaller titles sure, but anything major needs to be exclusive to attract new customers.
If Nintendo does this strategy, I look forward to the many "no games" jokes PS5 has also suffered
"One game, I don't know why..."
@@jdvred9210 I bought a Switch 2 with no games to buy
The games are cooking they are coming 👨🏻🍳
I mean, at the very least, Nintendo's games will stay exclusive to Nintendo, unlike PS5 where most first-party games are ported to PC after a while. Once Nintendo stops supporting the OG Switch, the true exclusives for Switch 2 will start coming out.
And Switch 2 will make a bigger graphical leap (7th gen to 8th gen or higher) than the PS5 (8th gen to 9th gen) due to diminishing returns. PS4 really doesn't look THAT much worse than the PS5.
Exactly. He just perfectly described Sony’s approach over the past few years…which is now starting to face MASSIVE criticism.
Even further, if marketed poorly this just becomes a SwitchU. If you’re treating your new release as if it’s just a slight upgrade with no unique features & the biggest selling point is backwards compatibility, nobody will see a reason to buy it.
You worried me at “lower the price of the Switch,” lost me at “they should follow what Xbox and Sony are doing with crossgen,” and made me laugh with “and then they can lower the price of the Switch 2.”
reminds me of his concept for the switch 2. I love arlo but it seems like he likes to convince himself certain predictions make a lot of sense before he even gives himself time to remember what company he's talking about.
@@squiddu couldn’t agree more
I think the general idea here is right, but I have a few thoughts on some of the rationale.
1. PS4 Pro level power instead of PS4 power wouldn't really be "Nintendo taking it further than they need to" going off of precedent. Since the Switch has had a bit longer of a lifespan, it would make sense for its successor to have a bit more than a 1 generation leap. Especially since GPUs have come a long way in terms of performance and efficiency in the last 10 years with things like DLSS and frame gen.
2. If the switch is running on an Nvidia T239 (or something similar) like most of the rumors point to, architecture shouldn't be much different to where emulation is necessary for backwards compatibility. As long as they include the Switch libraries for backwards compatibility, they should have no problem running switching games natively.
3. Even if games aren't running natively, emulation shouldn't be necessary. We've seen from compatibility layers like Proton, that modern tools are quickly making running games built for other platforms trivial. Nintendo could certainly build something similar for Switch games on the Successor. Moreover, there are universal decomplication tools making a lot of progress in the N64 space, and that could be another potential option to decompile Switch games and automatically port them to the successor.
4. Even if emulation was necessary, it probably wouldn't need immense power to do it. Switch Emulation works great on my phone, and on a $350 Steam Deck (which the Switch 2 should definitely surpass).
But I think the best rationale for all of this is that the Switch will continue to sell for a while. Like the 3DS's late lifecycle, it can continue to be the system for everyone. The successor can be the console for enthusiasts until a bit later when it can have its price reduced and become the new base model. This will extend the lifecycle of the console to hit that 8-10 year mark without feeling too outdated.
Interesting, thank you.
The first bit is basically what Nintendo *had* to do with the Wii U.
$399 today would be the equivalent of $318 in 2017. The Switch launched at $299 in 2017. If it's a 400 dollar system that's basically totally in line with what the Switch's price was.
Even if it is still $299.99 in today's money with the reduced cost of computer electronics that should still get you a console that's 13 times as powerful as a PS4Pro if we assume 75% of it's potential power has to be sacrificed to keep it small enough to be portable and pay for the screen and battery and such then it should still be at least 3x as powerful as the PS4Pro.
The power does matter though. Their game design is being held back by the lack of power and it shows. I can feel it in the game play. There are some games I really want to own and play but its so few that I would rather skip this generation entirely than buy a switch because of it.
This generation has been a nightmare for fidelity. Game come out at 30 fps and people are like "Well it's an RPG so it doesn't matter!" then they're upscaled with DLSS from 720p and blurred by TAA and people are like "Well I *prefer* a blurry image with tons of motion artifacts thank you very much!" Everything either has this gross crunch to it or ugly blur, it's very disappointing - and it's been so long hardly anyone cares to criticize it because it's become expected for games to just look like shit.
@@uponeric36 exactly 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
The Switch successor just needs to make use of the Switch's best feature: the IR sensor. We need one on the left joycon as well, plus IR sensors in each and every button. Throw one on the screen as well. Instead of the NX, this next system will be the IR.
Well, you can have, maybe, one game in five which is 'Switch 2' only as that incentive to upgrade.
There is one problem I see with this and it’s that if it’s too expensive on launch, they would miss the hype wave and people might lose interest by the time they lower the price. Especially since young people in general are getting more and more strapped for cash
It's Nintendo, it's never going to be too expensive. I'm VERY certain with the speculation and rumors and leaks of the hardware, it will be $400 USD. $350 USD would be great, but I just don't see it happening with the alleged specs they're trying to push out.
I think the PS5 has sold like 50M, and it’s more expensive and has no games. I think Switch 2 will be fine, especially with how consistent and plentiful their release schedule is. They’ve had about 1 exclusive every month for years. 1st year likely won’t be that stacked, but I don’t see it being devoid of games for too long. They’ve seemingly banked some games (like a FE remake), and the last 1-2 years by Switch 2 release will have had a number of remakes (to varying degrees *ahemluigismansion2ahem*).
as long as the games are still fun i'll be purchasing it
Sorry Arlo, there is no way for that to be Nintendo's strategy. There are simply not enough Tegra X1 chips left for that to work.
NVIDIA announced to their industry customers back in March 2021 that they should put in one last order of X1s because NVIDIA was shutting down the line. After 3 years of Switch sales, I doubt that Nintendo has enough of a stockpile left to keep Switch around as a budget device.
Switch 2 is all or nothing
gonna be so fun to watch these in a year from now
If you take the success of the Switch with enough power to bring in a lot of 3rd party support and Nintendo could climb back on top.
lmfao you say that like Nintendo isn't toppling the competition
Yep this is pretty clearly their strategy this gen imo
Nintendo is already on top this generation. But I get what you're saying.
They don't need to climb back up because they're already there. The Switch has a good chance of beating the PS2 and becoming the best selling console ever.
This gen, they just have to not fall off.
@@papermarioparty08 exactly!!! I believe they will overtake the ps2 if they could reduce the price of the Switch lite to $150. Basically drop the price of all models by $50 closer to the release of the successor.
So, I don't believe Nintendo's strategy here will be a slow welcoming into Switch 2. I think Switch might see a fire sale-type "last hurrah" where Nintendo will drop the price to clear the retail channels, but by and large, I expect Switch 2 to be pushed very hard from the get-go and for cross-gen releases to be few and far between, mostly around riskier ventures. Essentially, titles that need a large audience to prop them up as opposed to titles that can summon a large audience by themselves.
Regarding the power of the hardware, however, there's a thing that most people are missing when discussing Switch 2 specs, and that is DLSS. Since Switch 2 is built on modern nVidia tech, it has access to DLSS, which the OG Switch didn't (chips were too not recent enough). Furthermore, the leaked hardware specs hint at Switch 2's innards being DLSS-compatible hardware. This would allow games to render at a much lower resolution and then have DLSS gracefully blow those up, squeezing even more potential from the hardware.
The only scary thing here might be the system being CPU-bottlenecked. Admittedly, I am more well-versed in GPU talk, and whatever I know about CPUs doesn't exactly apply to an ARM-based, nVidia-made SOC, so... my fears here may be completely unfounded.
Pricing it above $400 will be a huge mistake. Nintendo games with PS4 Pro level graphics sounds pretty amazing to me. Can't wait to see the next big Mario and Zelda game on that thing.
It should be backwards compatible, but not forwards. If people want to play the new Nintendo games they need to buy the new Switch.
Nintendos president actually confirmed that the next console will be "more like Switch next model", so we dont need to worry about Wii U style gimmicks.
Furakawa said that it will be a “Switch successor” not “Switch like successor”.
@@Adamtendo_player_1 Actually, he did say at some point that it would be "more like a Switch next model."
@@papermarioparty08 he said it would be a switch successor.
@@Adamtendo_player_1 Shortly after that tweet confirmed the next console was posted, Furakawa was interviewed by MST Financial and David Gibson, who's a senior analyst there, tweeted about it saying that when they asked whether the next console would be brand new, he said "Switch next model would be the best way to describe it."
I don't think I would be smart for nintendo to have cross platform games, considering the amount/quality of first party games Sony and Microsoft have.
I'm kinda hoping some games can make that jump (Like Pokken or some obscure zelda titles) but I highly doubt we would ever see games like Wind Waker or Super Mario Galaxy on other consoles.
Really wishful thinking tho. I wouldn't mind if they went the hardass route where "These features are ONLY on the nintendo version." just so we at least get the game on something else.
I don't remember him saying anything about Nintendo making its games cross-platform. Pretty sure he was only talking about cross-gen games on Switch 1 and 2.
Most of sodium Microsoft games are not quality the average at best and overrated Nintendo’s games are magical and have a quality that Sony and Microsoft cannot match. The only thing is the hardware of the current which holds them back from fulfilling their true potential.
@@NrettG Imo Nintendo has the best exclusives in the gaming industry by design: It's to make people buy their consoles. I absolutely cannot imagine a first party Nintendo game, let alone a mainline title - hit another competitors console. The furthest they've gone is smart phones but that's because their competitors don't control the marketplace on Smartphone - being on say Sony marketplace means sharing money with them, listening to their rules, and risking people buying a PlayStation for Zelda; Nintendo would never unless they've leave the console market.
He was talking about CROSS-GEN, not cross-platform games.
Personally I don’t think there will be 2 different versions for each Switch generation. I feel like if the game carts are physically the same, it will work on both systems.
As an example, ToTK. It’ll run as it runs now on Switch 1, while it will run with an improved frame rate and allow for more intensive visual effects, probably at a higher resolution/frame rate on Switch 2.
New Switch 2 games may be like 3DS games, where you need the new console to play them but are still able to slot in the older games.
I'd prefer them to go all in taking advantage of the new system with games the original Switch couldn't handle. Power's not everything, but if you're building powerful hardware, use it. Making loads of cross-gen games also invites a slow burn for the new gen, which would not encourage 3rd-party developers.
On a side note, I wonder if they'll bother to keep the IR camera that I think they only ever used for one party game.
Honestly, I think you underestimate the current Nintendo Switch. It’s basically a 'PS3 pro' in terms of power, if such a thing existed.
I would speculate and say it's probably a ps3 or less, but just that the hardware the switch uses has been optimized so well because of its age as well as its popularity
@@magicpotato2161No, the original commenter is more correct in terms of the raw power of the system. There has certainly been a lot of very impressive optimization for the relatively weak hardware of the Switch, but it's compute performance is in line with 7th Gen+ rather than true 7th Gen
@@magicpotato2161 The tegra X1 is capable of many more advanced features that didn't exist in the 7th generation. The switch also has way more RAM than either of those consoles.
The Switch can better be characterized as a PS4 Lite than a PS3 Pro. The GPU has all the same features that the PS4 and PS4 Pro have (like modern lighting techniques, hardware tessellation, etc.), just with less raw horsepower. A PS3 is pretty powerful for its time and the Cell MIGHT allow it to use some of the Switch’s features in software, but it wouldn’t be able to run Mario Kart 8 or Super Mario Odyssey. Not to mention the amount of ram is more comparable to a PS4 than to a PS3. You can make the argument that a Wii U is a 7th gen system but even it has GPU features not present in those systems. The Switch is fully an 8th gen system.
since when does nintendo ever do anything that 'makes sense' ?
I don’t think the difference for the between PS4 and PS4 Pro is that monumental of a leap to be considered the difference between “underpowered” and “overpowered” or a huge expensive difference. It’s likely just closer because tech has improved and they can go that far and still fit in their affordable price range. PS5 is obviously too high, but they probably want to be somewhat competitive with the other handhelds, but also, it makes it that much more likely to get ports from 3rd parties, especially with stuff like DLSS to help improve performance/visuals without having to run it natively. I don’t think PS5 stuff would be impossible to port and still look/run decent, and we’re still getting cross-gen games anyway. I mean, from the tech specs it’s basically a handheld Xbox Series S.
Tech is closing the gap that used to be much wider. Just look at the Switch. The Wii U used to be a bulk gamepad with an even bigger console portion than the Wii (and way heavier). Now? That whole thing is crammed into a single, extremely thin, even smaller (than the gamepad) tablet while still being more powerful.
Sadly, Arlo, this was said gba->ds, ds->3ds, and 3ds-> Switch and it was just never true. For a non- Nintendo example, just a ton of stuff around Vita (that was basically entirely kept afloat by mid-range niche 3td party games after Sony all but abandoned it very early on).
Wheen Switch 2 comes out it will be a replacement, Switch 1 might get a handful of in dev stuff for a bit, maybe budget 3rd party stuff cause it's cheaper to dev for, but I give about 6 months before all real support completely evaporates, if that.
GBA was still receiving plenty of games two years after the DS came out. The DS got Pokemon Black 2 and White 2 over a year after the 3DS came out. I'd expect straggling Switch 1 games into 2026 if the Switch 2 comes out early 2025.
Wow I love all of these uploads! More Arlo is awesome!
Elephant in the room: Unless we have another lockdown then its an apples-to-oranges scenario.
Elden Ring, GTA, RDD2 and Backwards compatibility would be great.
Arlo, don't forget that the original NES and Super NES were basically cutting edge in their day and Nintendo dominated the market. The Switch era feels the most like the golden age of gaming from back then. I think they really should adopt this type of strategy and capitalize on their breakout success with the Switch.
Not exactly, the NES and SNES were weaker than the Master System and the Mega Drive that came about 3 years before the SNES.
Cutting edge wasn't Nintendo's thing until the N64.
I was already sold on a more powerful switch 2 just because of the potential 3rd party support but now I'm even more convinced.
Here's how to sell a gazillion Switch 2 if it has zero new gimmicks:
- Hey, it's totally retrocompatible, so you can replay BOTW and TOTK now in glorious 1080p with HQ textures.
- Oh and also, Mario Odyssey 2 at launch.
It's as simple as that.
Don't forget a new mario kart too
@@PolengueHAHAHAHAHAAHA
lol BoTW and ToTK in 1080p on Switch 2 would be laughably bad to show off new hardware. But we most likely are getting that 4K BoTW "Remaster"/Enhancement that was shown off behind the scenes at Gamescon that runs at 4K 60FPS. Switch 2 is going to be having DLSS so QHD or 4K resolutions are much more achievable on current gen titles.
I’d also like to see a form of a roadmap for the next 2 years of what to expect for the Switch 2. They don’t necessarily have to announce future games if they want to save it for another direct or event but to settle the expectations responsibly without fans speculating too far.
@@Polengue Hopefully they don't make MK8DXDX, tho I wonder if people will accept that MK9 will have less courses
I really hope they add achievements/trophies to the next system.
Damm it arlo, you can't stop making videos for the second channel. Soon it may overtake the main channel.
You are like a video-making machine
They just need to address the Switch's biggest design flaw:
The "T" is backwards.
Nintendo applying logic strategies and lowering prices? You can't be that innocent, Arlo. But we still love you.
Nintendo lowers the price of their consoles all the time. The Wii was eventually lowered to $100 or less at the end of its life cycle, the 3DS had multiple price slashes throughout its run, and that's just off the top of my head.
The Nintendo is the only one not affected by the video game industry imploded it’s only and Microsoft that don’t have brains and apply logic. It’s why they’re in the mess in and while Nintendo wasn’t stupid to go chasing after graphics and 4K nonsense.