Sam Harris Explains What Israel's Critics Keep Missing | Making Sense
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- čas přidán 10. 04. 2024
- An excerpt from episode #362 of the Making Sense podcast.
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Making justification on the ground of sense of proportion is equated saying that a distinction has to be drawn between good and bad evil.
I want a debate between Sam and Kyle Kulinski.
I could do with less commentator'ing, but I'll check out your mention
He needs to talk to Mouin Rabbani
Oh my goodness, YESSSSS!!! I would love to see him debate Kyle! Kyle is the far more informed and objectively less neocon atheist/secular show… Hence his show being called Secular Talk 😆 Sam has officially failed at being an intellectual. It’s pretty disappointing. I actually just watched Kyle‘s video on this topic and he dismantled Sam’s non logic effortlessly. I’ll post it in another comment for others to check it out
Here is Kyle‘s video on Sam‘s terrible take from today’s show: czcams.com/video/TIkF7JimxfE/video.htmlsi=8nBr9IzYbzqaDf1g
@@ComradeFromRhody401 good shit homie
The war between Russia and Ukraine has about 11.000 civilian deaths total in 2 years. Israels attack on Gaza has killed over 30.000 civilians in less than 6 months. Add the fact that over 70% of those killed are women and children. Also over 200 aid workers and more than 90 journalists.
None of these numbers are anywhere close to normal for a modern war, or any war for that matter, not even when the aggressor is a brutal dictatorship like Russia, and here those numbers are being generated by a supposed democracy.
That statistics alone should tell you this isn't a normal military operation in any way shape or form. And it gets worse when you factor in deliberate starvation and blocking of aid.
In addition, Israel does not recognise Gaza or any other region as a sovereign state, nor do they recognise Hamas as a legitimate government. This means that by Israels own logic, Hamas is a terrorist network operation out of a certain area, NOT a government representing a population. This means that attacking the population for something done by this terrorist network makes absolutely no sense by their own standards, nor dos it make sense to treat Gaza as a "foreign power" of the type that would let you invoke self defence principles according to international law. It still wouldn't fly since an indiscriminate attack against a population wouldn't qualify as self defence anyways, for example it wouldn't count as self defence if Ukraine attacked a Russian village. But still.
I'm sorry, but this is completely abnormal. It qualifies as genocidal and ethnic cleansing by international standards. And none of it can be excused or even explained by the terrorist attack in Oktober.
Edit: One more thing. The question about why Americans publicly protest the war in Gaza rahter than the war in Ukraine, a question I heard you ask in another video as if it was somehow a moral conundrum, is very simple, .
US citizens ARE directly responsible for the US part in enabling Israels actions in Gaza and the west bank, this includes military aid, economic aid and the ridiculous vetoing (for decades) of any and all UN resolutions attempting to move towards a solution to the conflict. Resolutions supported by pretty much all other countries in the world.
US citizens, by contrast, ARE NOT responsible for Russia attacking Ukraine.
How such a basic moral principle escapes your normally keen sensibilities is frankly beyond me. I have to wonder if you aren't simply trapped in your own prestige and just can't back down.
Ukraine war reached half a million casualties is last August (8 months ago) on both sides, of them 10.000 civilians because no body is hiding in tunnels and civil buildings in densely populated areas.
Might want to factor in the population density and the fact that Hamas is actively hiding behind civilians. So comparing it to a modern war makes no sense. What Hamas is doing has never ever been seen before. No army has ever built hundreds of miles of terror tunnels below civilian structures.
That is where your comparison makes no sense.
Regarding the war in Syria from Wikipedia: "The Syrian Network for Human Rights has stated it had documented 230,784 civilian deaths and 14 million displaced between March 2011 and October 2023"
The fact you can't do a simple search in Wikipedia for a war in the vicinity of Israel renders your analysis worthless. The difference between Syria and Israel? The evil Jews aren't involved in Syria, hence no one cares.
You do understand 30,000 is a number given by Hamas. Regardless, you clearly don't understand how gaza works. There were Gazan civilians raping Israeli women, Gazan journalists riding on Hamas motorcycles on their way to the kibbutzim.
Gazan families holding hostages in their homes.
@@freiheit3It would be convenient for Israel if its enemy was standing out in the open with signs saying "please bomb here", right?
The fact of the matter is Israel is squeamish about casualties on its own side, so it is choosing to carpet bomb Gaza. It then blames the enemy for a tactic born out of its own cowardice.
Loving that Israel lobby bag.
Loving that Jew hating troll comment...
@@rustyosgood5667
Hahaha
🎻
@@rustyosgood5667 truth hurts huh
@@Giantcrabz You don't make any sense or points...go away...
The world kitchen volunteers were bombed 3 times. That wasn’t a “mistake”. Have some common sense and discernment in your criticism of Israel with the same fervor as your criticism of Palestinians
it happens in every war in the world. Israel is not a unique country at all despite people calling it the best technology country in the world and other non-sense.
The military and government knew the names and travel patterns of every member of that organization. The fact is, there is little internal accountability and no singular structure that can command the IDF anymore, the units are filled with personnel acting out of pocket and only the command on the ground to reign them in. It is the perfect atmosphere for war atrocities.
So in your mind Israel purposefully killed British, Australian, Canadian, and European aid workers, because they wanted these governments to withdraw support and draw even more public condemnation?? How's that for "common sense"? The vehicles were mistaken for military vehicles because they were armed, their logos not visible at night, and attempts to communicate with the workers went unanswered. Why is it so hard to conceive that the only democratic country with a rule of law in the region and also the most scrutinsed on the planet doesn't go around choosing which civilians to murder like the genocidal Hamas? In every war mistakes and civilian casualities happen.
@@danielkh7103 No it doesn't. Not every army INTENTIONALLY bombs aid workers from countries completely uninvolved with this conflict. This narrative that Israel is "the most moral army in the world" is even MORE delusional than the opposite extreme (that they are modern day Nazis).
@@EdwardsComment And the proponents have assisted their own subsequent war-crime trials by filming such events and happily displaying them on social media.
Unless the Palestinians get their own state, I don't see any of this coming to an end. People need to be given the opportunity and security to build their lives and businesses, so they can stop focussing on fighting the occupiers, and get on with normal life goals.
You have no idea what their mindset is. State is the last thing they want. They want Islam to rule in the Levant without Jewish presence. You think like a westerner hence your lack of understanding
Exactly, all these cucks on here that are defending Sam don't seem to realize this.
They've been offered a state many many times since 1947, they always instead choose war. They lose the war, and get occupied to stop their attacks. Then after releasing occupation, they go back to attacking.
If they stopped trying to genocide the jews they would have had a state by now.
Everyone called for a ceasefire Oct 8. There was one, Hamas broke it. So everyone wants Palestine to be under a one sided ceasefire, where Israel never attacks back and they can just hit Israel whenever they want.
Hamas was voted in when the Gaza was not occupied. They called for genocide of the Jews in their charter. It's what the people want.
You stop occupying Westbank, the same thing will happen.
Palestinians have turned down their own state half a dozen times. They don't want a state side-by-side with Israel. They want a territory from which to launch attacks on Israel. The Israeli withdrawal from Gaza in 2005 proved this.
Get their own state where ? Why they didn't accept the UN partition when they had almost 50% of the land? They want it all. Read the Hamas charter.
Does this warmongering and extreme war propaganda sounds like something out of an enlightened nirvana level meditation guru who microdoses on magic mushrooms?
Or it sounds more like something from a frustrated, egotistic politician who is trying hard to promote war propaganda from one side?
Sam Harris is an articulate hypocrite
Example please...?
@@rustyosgood5667omg 🤦🏻♂️
Excellent description, this will stick with me. I am one of the fools who respected him a lot. Disheartening.
@@Levenspiels You never truly understood Sam if you don't understand his position here...He is as logical as they come.
Been a big fan of yours for over a decade, Sam, but this reflexive action of defending Israel at the expense of objective reality is not going to age well...at all. I have enough optimism about your pragmatic intelligence that at some point the light will come on and you will see the unfolding events of this war for what it really is, not what you NEED it to be.
I think your use of the word "Need" says it all. Thank you
He's always been an idiot, quit coping
You're wrong
@@YossarianhoenikkerFantastic argument!
You don't understand Sam and never did. His arguments are completely rational...you are the one who is suddenly wrong here....person with no name or face...
If Sam believes that the building of settlements is wrong, does he think that Palestinians have the right to resist this? If so, how should they go about doing this?
If it were only resistance to the settlements, then I think you would be right to say that Palestinians have a right to do what they are doing. But voting into power a terrorist group, with an explicitly genocidal mission against Jews? Come on...there is a big difference between being a victim, and playing the victim.
He doesn't. That's just a posture, I bet, like with freedom of speech or democracy or ... anything really, as long as it fits them, but when it doesn't it becomes problematic. They turn on a dime.
He doesn't like Trump not because of Trump himself, but because he innately detests strong White, self-aware, self-respecting majority, which Trump basically personifies (unjustifiably so, because he did nothing for us, only for Israel and "Israelis").
your mistake is supposing this is a forthright discussion 😂 did you listen to this podcast, ep 362? I mean, sure, it is *possible* that Sam was having a bad day, but given his bonafides I find that harder to believe than "WCF convoy misidentification."
They could have signed the peace deal, that they refused four times. Instead of starting a war. They could have got USA and international backing who would have policed the deal, and stopped any settlements.
@@kadourimdou43 Your ignorance is showing. I recommend reading more diverse viewpoints
We’ve lost the ability to articulate arguments that effectively demystify propaganda
I don't know about that. There are plenty of people debunking it, there is just no shutting up propagandists who are shameless and will not stop no matter how many facts are injected into the conversation.
We shouldn’t - even the morons know it’s propaganda. They choose it because it makes them feel good- for whatever reason
Demistify propaganda like UGMHMM WE DON'T NEED TO TALK ABOUT HOW HAMAS STARTED
Speak for yaself... I am here to argue with anyone who thinks Sam is wrong here. Bring it on....
@@rustyosgood5667 Sam is wrong if you think there is no need to talk about how hams started that's extremely dishonest to begin with lmao
I can see why Sam doesn’t want to engage with conspiracy theorists…but this is not a matter of conspiracy. Sam needs to return to the ring of debate if he’s going to be seen as someone with any valuable input. Douglas Murray has become a highly emotional and one sided voice in this debate and does not seem capable of dealing with this issue as the facts have evolved over time. These guys are not responding to new information. They are not applying an ounce of cynicism to Israel’s motivations. They are not grappling with a certain mundane reality which is: you can be a “liberal democracy” and still inflict more violence and bloodshed than a group of fanatics.
The caliphate boogeyman cannot be invoked to explain and diminish each and every outrage.
The Allies inflicted far more casualties on the Axis powers than they themselves suffered.
Yet it was the axis powers that committed genocide.
Journalists in the Ukraine conflict targeted: 1
Journalists in the Gaza conflict targeted: 200+
Get real Sam.
Ok troll...
@@rustyosgood5667
"troll"
-Wow, good one! Clap clap clap...
@@rustyosgood5667 Another great argument..
@@dsgio7254 This is an obvious Troll statement. If anyone believes that the IDF is targeting actual "Journalist", these people have no idea about what is really going on there. They can't back up such an obvious BS claim....so thus, they are a troll. Trolls are people, not unlike yourself, who have no picture (of themselves) and no real name...and are likely propagandist from some Islamic sympathizer group...or some indoctrinated (brainwashed) LIB ARTS program...
Dear Sam Harris,
You claim that quote (0:05): "... this kind of thing happens in every war." Ok... fair enough. However, here are some facts you need to reflect on if you want to make a coherent argument.
1. The percentage of civilians killed in WW2 (which is considered to be the most lethal war in human history) is around 60% to 67%. This is from a time before Geneva Convention and before UN Charter of Human Rights. This is from a time when we were throwing atom bombs on civilian population and we were burning people in gas chambers on an industrial scale. *IDF's own numbers put the civilian deaths in Gaza in that same ballpark.* And we know that IDF's methodology is suspect, because the whole system for counting casualties collapsed weeks ago, independent journos are not allowed in, and IDF is not counting missing people who are lying under the rubble as potential casualties. *Every other report puts the civilian deaths at well above 70%.* I won't even go into the whole planned mass starvation and the inhumanity of aid prevention. How can you claim that these numbers, which are most likely far worse than what we have seen in WW2 (the most lethal war in human history), can possibly be justified as just "par for the course"?
2. You need to clarify whether or not you think there is a point where the civilian death toll becomes too high? If that is the case... where exactly do you draw the line? At 80%? 90%? 99%? Do you believe the aid to Isreal should be unconditional? If not... again... where do you draw the line?
3. The human shield argument doesn't fly anymore, Sam. We know about Israelis intentionally delaying strikes on Hamas officers until they return home to their families in order to maximize the death toll - and then they use the narrative of human shields to deflect criticism. We have seen the Israelis kill unarmed people waving white flags. We have heard with our own ears and seen with our own eyes the interviews with Israeli officials who claim that there are no innocent Palestinians. You can always pull the argument how "mistakes happen in war", but the numbers just don't support this. The words from Israeli officials don't support this. Video evidence where they are killing unarmed population in front of cameras doesn't support this. The bombing of hospitals doesn't support this. The aid prevention doesn't support this. Wake up, man!
4. Please spare us of doing lip service for the civilian deaths if it is then followed by "shit-happens-in-war" type of arguments. It is clear that for you this is an ideological war between civilizations. And I think you are smart enough to know that you can defend any monstrosity through the lens of ideology. So, why are you repeatedly doing it? Where do you draw the line, Sam?
Excellent post - that is much needed clarity
3. You are mostly right but Hamas does use human shields. Not justifying Israel's actions though. It is obvious though that Israel abuses this argument to give themselves carte blanche to skewer anything in the Gaza Strip.
I think Sam has always been a narcissistic sociopth but he was able to hide it well
@@seto_kaiba_ try Googling "Israel using human shields" - I think you might be surprised by the evidence. As for many items of IDF propaganda - every accusation is a confession.
Well said!
Sam has lost his absolute mind on this issue. Beyond blind and ridiculous. Bow out of rhis debate, Sam, because it is impossoble to respect you as a serious ethicist and philosopher.
Agreed. And I say this as a former Sam fan, a strong anti-theist, and someone very critical of Islam. He's so completely blinded by his 'western civilization' bias that he can't admit when western powers are being obviously genocidal or colonial.
@@ptolemyauletesxii8642 Same, agreed.
No, a bunch of westerners who have a very low resolution understanding of the history of this conflict and what Islamic fanatics believe have no idea how to properly frame this conflict.
@@psmorgan2542 Enlighten us, then. In what way is Iran better than Israel? How would a Hamas victory benefit the world? (Hint: I don't like my streets decorated with giant posters of bearded man)
@@polvoazul I'm not even sure what a 'Hamas victory' would look like. What does that mean in the current context? A military victory? Do you think Hamas is likely to defeat Israel? I have no idea what you even mean.
Hearing the thoughtful but divergent views here, I'm struck by how much both sides seem to ultimately want the same thing - for their children to grow up in a world without fear and violence, with opportunity and dignity. Whatever our disagreements about history and politics, perhaps that fundamental shared hope for a better future is a place to start.
Can we challenge ourselves to ask: what would it take to build a reality where both Israeli and Palestinian children can thrive, free from the traumas of war and the weight of historical grievances? That's an immensely difficult question given the current realities, but isn't grappling with it the only way out of this cycle?
If we care about human life and human potential, on a long enough timeline we have to find a way for both peoples to live in peace. That doesn't mean erasing disagreement or papering over injustice. It means balancing our moral outrage with pragmatic recognition of the other side's humanity and legitimate hopes.
Maybe that's naive. But if we can't imagine both peoples thriving together, then we're condemning future generations to endless conflict. Self-reflection, uncomfortable compromise and a commitment to building a shared society are the only alternatives to doom.
So while I don't have the answers, I'd suggest we ground this conversation not just in the very real injustices of the past, but in the necessities for a better future - even as we acknowledge how difficult the path between them is.
I really appreciate the notion that thoughtful and honest communication can mend all but the most bitter polarizations. I’ve found this to be consistently true in my own experience(s). Sam’s argument, however, begs us consider the way an irrational theology makes difference itself wholly irreconcilable. That is, if a group is dogmatically induced to perpetual war against non-believers then where is the ground to talk of peace? This doesn’t seem to be a failure of imagination so much as it is a recognition of an ineluctable ethical impasse.
czcams.com/video/O7ByJb7QQ9U/video.html
Ryan McBeth is a good military analyst.
No, he is lying jew
What Hitlers critics keep missing.
The only Nazis here are the Palestinian people.
Hitler praised Islam. (Not that that was his biggest error of judgement.........)
Maybe there is something you're missing.
@@celsus7979 i bet your grandpappy was in Irgun
@@celsus7979 Hitler was also a Zionist for a short while.
Many Nazis were, see the Haavara agreement.
Killing is not a solution.
Why don’t you write it on a pro Palestinians podcast?
Imagine if people said that to the Allies during WW2.
@@divyanuthayanan8782lol Hitler's Nuremberg laws were based on Jim Crow to a large extent, and he received substantial support from Western captains of industry for being anti-Communist. Quit falling for this comic book version of history where Captain America stormed the beaches the day the Nazis came to power
It never should have been the dominant world powers in 1948 to decide how the Palestinian people should deal with the conflicts in their own country with the Jewish minority at the time. We created the monster. Same thing with Taiwan. Strange how we ignored Rwanda in their crisis.
"Their own country". Such ahistorical nonsense.
@@JM.5387 Some want to go back in time but stop when it comes to the point where the Israelites took the land from other nations. You can't arbitrarily decide when people lost and gained possession of a territory to suite your religious bias, especially when an ancient religious claim ordained by god is used for justification.
The world powers did Not decide the outcome in 1948!
It was Jewish heroes, including Holocaust survivors, who prevented the Arabs from finishing what Hitler had started.
America and Israel both backed apartheid South Africa to the bitter end. Boycotts, divestments, sanctions led to their downfall, but those are literally ILLEGAL to do against Israel, and you have to sign a loyalty oath in many states to be a teacher. The amount of Zionist brainwashing in the U.S. is unreal.
Can Sam admit that the initial idea of forcing an Israeli state on that region was an obviously insane thing to do, regardless of hindsight?
What is insane about the existence of one Jewish state when there are 22 Arab States and a total of 57 Muslim majority states - and that's not counting some European countries which are going Islamic.
Jews were there all along they didn’t force their way into the land They were there when the land was given its name Palestine by the Romans The Arabs were still in Arabia only to arrive to Palestine 500 YEARS later with their Jihadist armies.
he won't say it. He's a Zionist shill
@@philipskalla4312because all ethnostates are bad? "If Muslims get to have shitty racist theocracies, why can't we?' isn't the winning argument you think it is
show me one nation without an indigenous hindsight. how do you think borders and territories were set prior to recent centuries? through wars and struggle. The Palestinians would have been much better off if the jews weren't attacked on the war of independence.
Is it within the realms of possibility that there’s a non zero percent chance that these “mistakes” might’ve been intentional?
I don't see why the IDF would have done that, it massively hurts their own cause.
To what end? Get themselves sanctioned?
but sir! Sam says that makes you vile (like me, apparently)
@@ponysmallhorse are you asking what could be the value of "intentional mistakes"?
@@SFDestiny yes. It seems like extremely not in the interest of Israel.
So so disappointed in you Mr Harris and your blinkered and discombe passionate views here
What I find difficult to embrace isn’t the logic of your argument, it’s that it is made from the proverbial armchair, and doesn’t face the horrors of the sheer efficiency with which Israel is wiping human beings off the planet. Ultimately, neither side is exercising their humanity in this war, and therefore from this perspective, they are equivalent-no matter the moral superiority.
LOL, Do you have any idea how quickly Israel could flatten all of Gaza if that were their intent? You sound like a troll...an ignorant troll or maybe a Jew hater.
Man, this is not an argument, just emotional manipulation: after oct 7, how else can israel be safe for people living there? The rest is bs
What I find difficult to embrace in the logic of your argument is that you think it is seemingly ok for Israel to live under rocket fire the last 20 years without a response. Must be pretty easy to accept from your proverbial armchair.
@@maxfairclough3600 Well then it shouldn't have been created in dubious circumstances where Zionist death squads forced the indigenous population from their homes at gunpoint and then subjected them to apartheid for 75 years and are now accelerating their slow-burn genocide. What ever happened there?
This isn't about logic. This is about the fact that Hamas would kill Sam Harris and me because we're atheists, while Israel has no problem with us being atheists. In a fight between guys who want to kill us and guys who don't want to kill us, we're gonna take the side of the guys who DON'T want to kill us. The argument doesn't have to get any more intellectual than that.
Sam: _"Relax, it's just collateral bruh."_
You: "No side should ever kill more than the other. If a thousand kids stood between my family and several terrorists firing at them, I have no right to kill more than the number of members of my family to try to stop them from shooting my family". Simple minded imp.....
Sam speaks of sides: right sides and wrong sides, good sides and bad sides. I choose the side of the innocent, the victims, those caught between these sides that Sam designates. This then gives me the right to denounce both the IDF/Israeli Government and Hamas. Both have lost their way. Both deserve the designation of criminal, and history will mark them as such. Sam's limbic complex proves to be all too common.
"Both have lost their way", WTF are you on about, Hamas does exactly what a fanatical jihadi group would do according to their own ideology. The war Hamas started could stop today if Hamas surrendered, which they should do, but seeing as they've said they'll do Oct 07 again and again Israel has no choice but to destroy them. There's no moral parallel between Hamas and Israel.
You can't tell but that's a ❤ react from me
Then you are on the side on Israel. Congratulations.
@@itsikmiz Your superficial conclusion isn't supported by any of your reasoning. Care to provide some?
You're drawing a moral equivalence Sam has tried to debunk multiple times. Maybe it's you who needs to reflect on your moral compass.
These are just all the talking points that have been successfully argued against
If someone was doing to Israel what Israel is doing, you'd be singing a very different tune. Imagine your argument if it was a Muslim nation doing this, and thie links you'd be making to the Quran.
Ummm…they are. Saudi Arabia and Yemen…look it up.
They are, and have done plenty worse. There's a pretty good reason why there are essentially no Christians and Jews left in Muslim dominated countries. They were all driven out or killed over the last 150 years. Isreal isn't only a reaction to the atrocities of ww2, but the ongoing atrocities that predated it. We in the modern west just don't have an understanding of generational religious and racial violence in the way that exists there. We understand national / political conflict, but people don't acknowledge that the Palestinians by and large don't want a nation, they want violence and ideally genocide. We want negotiation and coexistence, but to the extent they entertain those topics and take foreign aid, it's used, not to develop their nation, but to dig tunnels and buy weapons.
@@johnkroeger9352 That just went right over your head didn't it?
@@entelin You've got a very strange definition of negotiation and coexistence.
@@entelinhow on earth did the IDF shoot those 2 Christian ladies to death at one of the world's oldest Christian churches in Gaza then?
In his pursuit of moral clarity Sam has traded the truth of complexity with the illusion of simplicity. His use of “the good guys” when talking about Israel and the US during its invasion of Iraq reflects this reductionism.
Painting one side as the “good guys” requires and enables a distortion of reality. This is how a person can believe that the people who have killed over 13,000 children (and have left hundreds of thousands of others to face famine and immense trauma) somehow care more about those children then their own parents. Palestinians who have lost their children have been ending their own lives. There is endless footage of mothers screaming as they hold their children’s bodies in their hands. I am yet to see any Israelis screaming in emotional agony over the lives of Palestinians. It is bizarre and absurd to think the people who are responsible for the loss of so many children care more about them then their own bereaved parents.
It’s worse than dehumanizing to Palestinians. Even animals care about their own offspring. The belief that they don’t care is an inversion of Palestinian’s humanity. It paints them as anti-human. This is the outcome of reducing conflicts to “good guys” and “bad guys”.
Don't morally relativize this. Palestine's only defence is its own incompetence. It didn't kill as many israelis as possible not for lack of trying. Its motives are the worst possible. The fact that they are losing the war doesn't make them morally superior. In fact, I would argue that they are losing BECAUSE they are morally inferior. In a culture where violence and force is the utmost value, internal and political violence are also permitted. This stifles meritocracy and good decision making. This leads to worse fighting capability. Which leads to loss of war and life.
There are morally ambiguous conflicts, but this is not it. There is no millenia old stigmatization of 'palestinians' (muslim arabs). There is no reason they couldn't have their own prosperous state, or simply migrated to one of many countries where they are the majority religion/ethnicity. They hold, like 99% of the blame of their current situation.
And yes, martyrdom culture exists in muslim extremist cultures.
@@polvoazul I’m glad you are very up front about not thinking there is any nuance here. For you, it’s simply good and evil. So Palestinians that have been there for generations should leave their home and go to a country that is comprised of their “ethnic” group? In other words, Israel is not a place where Arabs belong even if they’ve been there for generations. Arabs should go to Arab countries and Jewish people should go to Jewish countries. You see why thinking this way is a bit backwards? Can you see why maybe staying in the place that your family has called homes for generations might be more important than being with your ethnic group?
@@polvoazultheir "defense" is that they are under OCCUPATION. God you Sam Kahanist fans are psychotic
@@Giantcrabz So 'being in occupation' (whatever that means, no jews in gaza since 2005) excuses everything you do? They are 'in occupation' because they couldn't reach a compromise, and peaceful settlement. They want it all, resorted to violence, again and again, and lost. So they got a bad deal. Again, nobody's fault but their own.
Sorry Sam, I think you're so clear minded on most topics but this one your bias is just clouding your judgement.
Maybe your mind is biased and not clear. Listen carefully to what he is saying. Don't fall into the traps of Hamas.
“Atheists” real religion shows........
Actually, so far, I find his arguments perfectly logical and making sense
Sam always biased against Muslims. Even more - he hates them
@KryMoore he is actually Jewish.
Where did my previous comment go?!?
Professor-Marty.
How could I bought your Waking Up subscription and listened so many of your podcasts and meditations... Unbelieveable. I know your renowned dislike of any Islamic cause and I join you in that. But your severe dismissal of killing 35k civilians as "war casualties that just may happen" is simply disgusting.
Jesus. How come did I learn loving kindness meditation from you? :(((
Not to mention his total erasure of Christian, secular, Samaritan, Druze, and JEWISH Palestinians. Sam is just another Z|onist shill. I bet he cried when Kissinger kicked the bucket.
Sam, 100, 000 people are on the brink of starvation. Many of them are children. Linger on that for a while...
It's actually at least half a million with about 2 million facing acute food insecurity, the largest proportion of any population to face starvation in recorded history. It's on track to become the second worst man-made famine since the end of WWII, and otherwise reasonable people like Sam will argue that it's somehow not a genocide. Amazing, isn't it?
Lean on Hamas not Sam
Hamas comes from the Gazans
for the last 18 years Gazans have enlisted their children to become fighters for Hamas .
Why aren’t Gazans asking their children to abandon Hamas?
Gazans dug the tunnels no one knows the tunnels better they . Why don’t they expose were Hamas is ? Why are
Gazans hiding Hamas ?
Now do Yemen.
@@ysaismartinez7618 Which countries are supporting Saudi Arabia in it's genocide of the Yemenis?
Come on, there are two close Western "allies", you can guess them...
Amazing how little it takes for people to support crimes against humanity. Breathtaking
The shameless gaslighting is astonishing
its pure islamaphobia, him and Douglas Murray can't hide it
This is seeking revenge in the name of seeking justice. Trying to justify it as a proportionate response is like justifying mass killings by saying there should be a correct proportionate amount of innocent human lives that can be lost. Where is human rights in that? I am extremely disappointed in Sam. 😢 If destroying a country and killing innocent civilians to replace a regime worked, then America would have seen success in Afghanistan. No lessons have been learned.
There was never a thing called “success” that was going to happen in Afghanistan. That’s not why we were there.
Israel was attacked. Don't forget that. This was not a war for regime change. Any other country in the world would fight back if attacked.
@@Repackrider84 We were there for Northrup Grumman and Boeing share prices.
Very disheartening to hear someone like Harris, who I will always admire, try to justify the unjustifiable in this case.
his handler in Tel Aviv is having a good time at least
Desperate people do desperate things.
I remember when I used to respect Sam Harris’s opinion.
All of these claims need heavy citations.
Otherwise it's just as good as
"They are the good guys, trust me bro"
Sam Harris grip on the history of Israel/Palestine is patchy, to put it mildly.
Watch Gaza TV shows for 5 minutes. You have no idea how sanitized western media is about this.
But CZcams comment section really clears things up!
@@Timebandit1 Well Benny Morris who is considered the most acurate historian on these conflicts seems to side with Sam. Or you think Finkelstein using out of context quotes from him and other 35 years ago prove things otherwise?
@@Saskobest I'm not an expert on Benny Morris, but Harris' views are callous, inhumane, coloured by racism.
These takes are absolutely awful, and this is coming from someone who admires you greatly.
Why don't the people of Gaza do anything about their alleged kindhearted, peace-loving leaders?
@@Imitatechrist because history/context matters.
@@jaylouis6156
You want to tell me you're being serious. How does that justify October 7th?
@@Imitatechrist He never justified Oct. 7th, he was simply emphasizing that actions do not happen in a vacuum and usually have a context (in this case, a historical and political context.)
But why ISN'T Sam Harris himself a critic of Israel? One of the most religious countries in the world, where parties in the government preach Armageddon and women in Jerusalem cannot walk safely in the street. Sam Harris is an atheist when it comes to criticism of all other countries, but deeply religious in his defense of Israel.
Holocaust
But don't you know that Hamas wants to throw gays off buildings? That extremely relevant facts justifies anything by the Israelis.
A brainwashed self proclaimed empiricist. An oxymoron encapsulated.
I wonder if it has to do with him being jewish and a racist. Who will ever know?
It’s the least religious country in the Middle East, and the only secular one.
By referencing Pat Tillman here, Sam gives the game away.
Sam is a fan of torture, he doesn't give a fuck about Tillman.
Iran is an interesting case because its people seem significantlly more educated and secular than virtually every other country in the region. My fear however is that the current theocracy will transition into some sort of right wing authoritarian regime like Putin in Russia, instead of a liberal democracy.
I think you are confusing the level of education with other values. Iran enforces very strict religious laws, as seen with the protests over veil wearing. Iran issued the Fatwa that led to the persecution of Salman Rushdie and others who embrace free speech. Iran has a revolutionary guard that upholds the values of the 1978 revolution and consistently supplies weaponry to other states for the purpose of armed revolution (terrorism). We should judge Iran by its actions and assume it will find its own future rather than transition into any US-EU model.
Gee I can't imagine why my comment was deleted. Someone didn't like the fact that I expressed my disagreement with Sam Harris and probably flagged it under false pretenses. Seems that every time I ever post on anyone's video condemning the IDF for what they are doing, my comments always seems to disappear even though I condemn Hamas as well. I guess some people are just in favor of innocent people being hurt or why else would my comments be getting deleted.
Brucey brucey having a cry
@@mrchigz8 darn right, I'm rolling all over the floor throwing a fit looking like a fish out of water 😜
Understanding Sam needs a dive into Islam itself as a religion and how deeply rooted it is in their actions and reactions. Most people merely stop at a humanitarian point of view and see death, suffering and atrocities which means the only way they could stand is on the side of the weak, although just because they're weaker doesn't mean they're right.
It means standing with the Germans in Berlin in April 1945.
@@philipskalla4312That's exactly what the people Sam is railing against are saying. Sam can't see that the exact same atrocities are being done by the team he's on because he has such a distain for Islam - rightly so, it's a barbaric, backward religion...so is Christianity and so is Judaism. There’s no difference between those superstitions because they’re the exact same thing. All we can do is judge individual actions and right now, one side in this particular skirmish has killed about 9000 people over decades (since 2000, about 30,000 additional people have been wounded) and one side is currently using American weapons to kill 30,000 and counting and are starving out a million more in a few months. It’s clear who the villains are here and it’s fucking Israel. What happened to their grandparents doesn’t give them a pass.
Gaza was a Palestinian state. Completely independent and having received billions of dollars in aid.
It’s rare to see someone so clearly on track to a hiding … SH’s reputation is taking as severe a beating as that of Israel. I suspect he feels the need to show Jewish loyalty and fealty to vipers such as Douglas Murray et al. Highly regrettable.
I’m confused about the human shield accusations. If your invaded by a hostile force and your fighters are made up of the people who normally live in the lands being invaded, then wouldn’t that automatically, by default, mean that you could be accused of using civilians as human shields since you are “hiding amongst the civilians”?
Because the Hamas fighters are all just people that already live in Gaza and the areas surrounding. They obviously all have families and many have children so wouldn’t it make sense for you to want to stay near to your family, your home, and your land because you would want to protect what’s important to you?
Where else are the Hamas fighters supposed to go? Are they expected to designate a specific battle ground where they can then send all their fighters so that they can safely be blown up away from their women and children?
If you don’t have a professional military and you don’t have tons of resources and military vehicles/jets then that means you have no choice than to fight and resist using gorilla warfare tactics. That means, when you don’t have a professional, well funded army/military then the fighters are going to be the men that live in the region that’s being attacked. And when this is the situation you’re in, wouldn’t the default location that the fighting occurs be wherever the opposing force is bombing/attacking?
And since Israel is bombing/attacking civilian areas then where else would Hamas fighters be fighting?
If where you lived was being bombed/attacked/invaded, wouldn’t you want to stay close to your family, your home, and your land so that you could protect those things?
You could literally say that in every conflict that has ever happened in history, one side could be accused of using human shields because one side “hides amongst civilians”. But those civilians are the family and friends of the fighters who are resisting/being invaded. You could say that in Vietnam, they were all using human shields because the Vietnam fighters all lived amongst the civilians.
But since we were bombing/attacking Vietnam, which has lots of civilians living there, then where else would vietnams fighters be? They’d obviously be fighting/living amongst the civilians because that’s where the fighting is taking place and the Vietnam fighters obviously want to protect their families and their fellow countrymen so where else would the fighters all be other than amongst the civilians?
It’s not like it’s the old days where a battle field would be chosen and then soldiers would line up with their muskets and take turns shooting at each other. Ya know, back when war was civilized.
Point being, I am always hearing from the people who believe that Israel should have 100% unconditional support no matter what Israel does, they always say that “hamas hides amongst civilians and uses them as human shields” but where else are they supposed to go, if not where their families, homes, and land is being bombed/attacked? Isn’t that where you would be so that you could protect what’s important to you? There’s always going to be one side whose fighters “hide amongst civilians”. Where else would they go/be exactly? I’d really love to know because this whole human shield argument is confusing me like crazy.
Even if you take the point that Hamas are using civilians as human shields, it is still the IDF who are the ones wittingly killing the civilians.
Sam is admitting that the ends justify the means here, which I totally disagree with. Israel has been able to defend itself against Hamas for decades now without invading Gaza. It can still do this. The only reason they have invaded and are killing Hamas and civilians is for vengeance. Their objective of killing off Hamas is absurd because you can't kill an idea and the suffering they impose on Palestinians will lead more of them to hate Israel.
If you, personally, Jesse, were a Hamas fighter living with your family in Gaza, and Israel announced that they were going to bomb your town, and offered civilians time to evacuate if they wished, what would you ask your family and other civilians to do, and why?
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, let's say that you preferred that they stay and be bombed instead of evacuating, because your religion told you that staying and dying was a better long-term thing to do for them than to evacuate. In other words, you are not wanting them to stay as human shields…rather, you are wanting them to stay because you believe that it is in their best long-term interest to do so.
Under the above scenario, it's true that your motivation would not be to use them as human shields, but they still would, in fact, be serving as human shields, regardless of your noble motivation for wanting them there…so it would be fair to say that your motivation for having them there has nothing to do with them being human shields, and the fact that they are, in fact, serving as human shields is just an unfortunate short-term side effect of your wanting to do what is best for them in the long term, based upon your religious beliefs.
So, under the above scenario, you would be using civilians as human shields, but only as a side effect of trying to do what is best for them in the long term, and definitely not as a military tactic.
So the question is: Is the above an accurate portrayal of the average Hamas member’s motivation for not asking family and friends to evacuate from areas that are under evacuation due to impending bombing raids?
I could be wrong, but my understanding is that most Hamas fighters not only did not ask their families and friends to evacuate, but that Hamas actually blocked civilians from evacuating, at least in some cases. Do you believe that this is true, or not? And do you believe that this is a typical attitude of Hamas members, or merely an aberration?
And what about claims that Hamas intentionally hides in tunnels under hospitals, schools, etc., because they are less likely to be bombed? Do you believe these claims? And if you believe them, how would that not be using civilians as human shields?
I'm not in Gaza, nor am I an expert on Hamas, but for me, after hearing and seeing what Hamas did to Israeli civilians on October 7th, with glee, and the knowledge that Allah was on their side, it doesn't seem like such a stretch of the imagination to believe that they might be capable, also in the name of Allah, of feeling that a civilian who dies as a human shield is serving Allah, and that nothing could be more honorable than that, and more rewarded by Allah after death than that, and therefore using civilians as human shields is actually doing them a huge long-term favor.
As far as historical use of civilians as human shields, the questions would be whether or not Hamas is intentionally using civilians as human shields as a MILITARY TACTIC or not, and whether other historical guerrilla fighters we're using civilians as human shields as a MILITARY TACTIC or not.
I don't know to what extent the United States used the "evacuate because we are going to bomb" method in Vietnam, nor whether the Viet Cong intentionally used civilians as human shields under those circumstances, nor whether, if they did, their motivation was as a MILITARY TACTIC, or some other reason, but regardless, there is a difference between normal guerrilla warfare, where civilians inadvertently get caught in the crossfire, and a situation where an evacuation warning is issued, and the civilians are asked by the guerrillas to remain in the area to be bombed, which is the situation in Gaza.
The only people who are confused about Hamas here are Jew haters....just admit it troll.
@@jerrysmith5782 maybe the women and children refuse to leave because they want to fight for their home/land/possessions/life because if their father and husband are dead, if their home, possessions, and land is all destroyed, maybe they feel like there’s nothing they’d want to fight for more than these things because they don’t have a life without them. What’s left for them without all of those things? It’s a different culture than the west, it doesn’t seem too hard to imagine that it might be common for the families to want to fight for each other, their homes, their land and possessions until their dying breath.
If they left, then what would they have to come back to, assuming they survived? Their entire life, everything is there, including the man of the house. I don’t know for sure but I would bet their culture, the Islamic religion view ken as being fundamentally important for the functioning of an Islamic household.
And if they all go to paradise since they are fighting for their religion, then why wouldn’t they want to fight for the entire life as a family? If they all die then they all end up together in paradise, shortly after. It makes much more sense that people would want to stay and fight rather than run to survive but have their entire lives destroyed, left dysfunctional and broken.
Don't weaken the protesters as if they cannot read and make up their own mind. I'm actually taken quite aback how calm and rational the presentation is and how horrific the reasoning is.
agreed
The "Early life" test never fails.
S.H is speaking out of his S.H.
Bravo
Lol, he sure is. What a total dick he is.
It’s amazing how Sam’s sharp wit becomes so dull in matters Israel! Disappointed. A true indication of human bias and bounded rationality. Not to mention shame!
The shame is on you, my friend
Even Destiny isn't buying that killing the aid workers was a mistake. Sam has the blinders on.
blinders, huh? Sam starts off by saying, anyone who can suppose this of Our Team is vile. I think it's absolutely calculated. this edited version, persuades me further
Destiny is as sharp as a sack of wet mice.
@@CP-nl2zb huh, I'd have thought a sack of wet mice could be terribly sharp 🤔I guess we need to establish the type of sack
For somebody that claims to be "awake" you have put on display your utter blindness.
There is a big difference between one incident of friendly fire and tens of thousands of innocent people getting caught in the "crossfire." What an awful comparison.
Tbh, would it have been possible to imagine in some alternate universe, that the US would have ONLY prioritized a defensive strategy after 9/11, and almost entirely adhered to the non-aggression principle? Sure.
But, is this type of response realistically possible? No, we need to incorporate some degree of realpolitik: if you always play defense, and let your enemies grow and fester elsewhere, you'll ultimately just undermine your defenses.
So, I think it's safe to say Israel needed to engage, and from there, we start getting into the inevitable horror show of urban warfare.
To continue the comparison, of 9/11 and 10/7 responses: how far should we have gone, to try to stabilize a perpetually destabilized region, for the sake of our own security? I think we now know, that we should have been as surgical as possible, and practically did the opposite.
Can Israel now take this lesson from the US, and avoid similar mistakes? Can they avoid an extended conflict, with an eventual pseudo-stalemate, in several countries? I obviously hope so, I'm not a military strategist, but I assume they need to avoid engaging the entire Middle East.
The problem is that Israel is faced with a no win situation.
They can't control the Palestinians forever, but they can't give in to all their demands either since it would compromise their long term security. Their national memory is understandably filled with the thought of yet another war, so they want absolute control over strategic points in the West Bank.
Then there is the religious right who will never accept losing control over Jerusalem, something that the Palestinians can't accept either since Jerusalem is a part of their intended nation of Palestine.
Without an answer to all of this, Israel feels compelled to an overwhelming response to any attack, to intimidate any group or nation with such intentions, by sending a clear message that total defeat is the faith of every attacker.
It is designed to hurt.
What is equally concerning is that Hamas knew this, and seems completely willing to see Gaza become a wasteland.
I don't think it's far from the truth when i say that for them every blunder by Israel is more than welcome. I suspect that they see this as a sacrifice for greater good.
The troubling thing about the mood in the West is that a pro Palestinian attitude is precisely what Hamas is hoping to gain.
What seems to be overlooked when critiquing Israel is that Hamas could end this all by turning themselves in and releasing the hostages.
Yet they are perfectly willing to let the population suffer.
The population in turn seems to support Hamas in greater numbers than ever before.
For Hamas, and others like them, the response of their population and the West can only mean one thing, it was worth it.
Just like blind support for Israel, blind support for the Palestinians emboldens them to go on the way they do.
Ignore and do not support either side! They have to start taking responsibility for their actions or deal with the fall out.
You're acting like the attack on the US is where it started. The US illegally bombed Muslim nations for nearly 30 straight years before the attack. Do you seriously believe it is rational to ignore that? Why were there no Muslim attacks on the US for its first 200 years of existing? Did we not have enough freedom back then to bait the attacks? Islamic nations were also much stronger back then, so why did most of them ally with us instead, and none attacked us?
Yes
Israel doesnt have the luxury of having two oceans as giant walls. Israel can't go 'on the defensive'. The country is miniscule, borders are large and enemies abound.
The problem is how close the borders are and how small the countries. It is inevitably a death machine.
Sam this is frankly embarrassing. You sound more like Douglas Murray than I'd like to admit, and for people who are often intellectually prosperous on the majority of topics you are so blind and lost on this particular topic and everyone in the comments can clearly see that.
I agree with much of this but not all for sure. Israel will not destroy Hamas only weaken it, they are not even all in Gaza. So stating that any harm done in that effort still puts Israel in the right is just something I cannot agree with.
Would you have said the same thing about the allied forces fighting against the nazis in ww2?
Thank you! every word. I keep thinking "Am I missing something?" I am a progressive leftie, and my pond has me feeling like I am mad. Thank you.
Pond?
@@benjauron5873 yes the radial left, its a small pond in Tel Aviv where I reside
You are
@@dant3175 please, tell me what I'm missing. I hope I am wrong. because this was a war for our soul, we lost our faith in humanity. I'd love to have that back. Israel has made MANY mistakes prior and during this war, but aiming to dismantle Hamas? that is not a mistake. Hamas committed 2 crimes on October 2nd and what they did to us, awful and horrendous as it may, does not hold a candle to what it did to the Palestinians. I lived abroad for many years and so I know how hard it is to understand this regions character, nuance, and state of mind. This is a VERY dangerous neighborhood.
War is and always has been this tragic, if not more, it was just never broadcasted in real tie for the world and for nations that don't have a real sense of what a war at home for home means. I believe in the Palestinians right for freedom, dignity and a state. nothing will change that. but I can not advocate that this situation is solely Israel's fault. is it partially its fault? absolutely, but anyone who thinks there is a single factor explanation (or solution) to complex problems is naive. or simply lazy.
@@dafna0284 My solution is not lazy, it is based on game theory experiments. And it requires self-discipline to pull off. When someone attacks you, the temptation is to respond with overwhelming force. It takes a lot of willpower to respond proportionally instead. And Israel is absolutely making a mistake, a grave mistake which will haunt if for years, maybe decades to come. Palestinian survivors, you think they will just make peace with Israel? Israel wiped out their entire families. They would be insane to make peace with Israel. Israel has seeded ten new Hamases these past six months. Incredibly foolish.
'Who is putting out their children at the front? To say that all who died were children of some fighter and were purposefully put out at front is absurd, as if none were killed in air strikes?'
In front means between Israel and Hamas. Hamas lives in tunnels BELOW the kids...get it? Hamas are cowards and the fault lies with Hamas and those who keep them in power. Stop your Jew hatred spew....
Stalin. Stalin did it the same way
And then they take a needle and dip the tip of that needle into shit and then stir your tea with it.
And he would say "it's just a little bit of shit".
This is very simply an apology for genocide. As Sam might say ‘That’s all we need to know about it’.
Sam what do you think about the occupation of Palestinian land and the history of this?
It's not Palestinian land. Belongs to the Jews.
@@xzaber1373 yes, well that's clearly an issue of contention. And perhaps the issue that underpins the entire conflict.
@@xzaber1373 stating that doesn't make it true. let me guess, because your holy book says so.
@@eli_here Can't help your ignorance of history. Try using the internet to educate yourself instead of spewing nonsense.
@@aimeebarnes337 It's not a question of land, it never was. How can Oct 7 justify the need for a state? Pure barbarianism on display for the world to see.
If what happens to Gaza is just the result of war ,,,,, then why you blame hamas when they do the same .... regarding civilians ????
I find it almost fascinating how such an intelligent person can have a take this bad.
I’d find your take equally as fascinating I’m sure.
Very grateful for your work Sam, you are my hero in many respects, but when it comes to Israel and Palestine I can recognise you. How can you be so blind. Yes, obviously mistakes happen at every war, it is not a point. The point is that Israel killed 30000+ peaceful people in Palestine and will kill many more. This is the issue, 7th of October didn’t give the licence to kill everyone. It just seams that there is no number of lost human lives in Palestine can stop Israel and make you say that’s enough, that’s not right, there must be another way. Your work has change my life, but fucking hell man, Palestinian people and hamas is not the same thing.
100% I feel the same way, especially the disappointment with Sam especially. He's using whataboutism to make the genocide of civilians okay, making ridiculous claims blaming the victim "maximimising death on its own side". What kind of BS is that? As if the systematic murder of children, the torture of hostages and the sexual abuse of women including pregnant, the siege and starvation of a whole population, the history of ethnic cleansing and dispossession and the rhetoric of dehumanization ever so present in the israeli military, government and population is ALL a result of that silly line of "using human shields". The only people literally using human shields in this genocide has been the IDF and it's recorded on video. They don't even care not to bomb their own hostages, listen to the israeli hostages.
Also using the terms "bad guys" and "good guys", Sam has never spoken to people as if they're this stupid.
Israel is Sam's moral blind spot - it his "his people" so he sees their humanity more than the Palestinians which is a shame.
Peaceful
without Gazans there would be no Hamas
Gazans provide Hamas with all of its terrorists , dug the tunnels for Hamas and Gazans continue to hide the Hamas murderers.
The Gazans are enablers and accomplices to the criminal murders and have forfeited their “ civilian “ status long ago .
Know your Gazan enemy not cute pictures of children
The Gazans have poisoned the heart and minds of their children through religious indoctrination not different than Islamic state.
Read about the Jihadist Islamist culture of Gaza very
few innocents.
They brought this catastrophe on themselves .
How many of your family would you sacrifice to stop this killing? Would you personally be willing to go in and fight Hamas without the IDF behind you? Or maybe you think Hamas is ok...piss off.
There should have been TWO states from 1948 . That being said mess with the bull and you’re going to get the horn. Netanyahu is a criminal. That should be in jail for many reasons.
2 states were proposed, but the Arabs rejected it and declared war on Israel instead. They then lost the war.
The proposals of two states were from Israel's side several times, and each time, it was rejected from the Palestinian side. Actually, Palestinians say that in simple terms. They dont hide the fact that they are not interested in two states they are interested in a solution of no Jews in Israel.
@@olgay555not actually. They want equality in Israel. The same laws and rights. In a decent world anyone of any ethnicity should have the same freedoms and rights within a state.
@lindaleeyou1234 Absolutely not. They clearly say we don't want any Jews in this land, and even if there is a Jew here, it is under Sharia laws. At the same time, all israels Muslims, who live within Israel, have freedom of religion and have exactly the same rights as Jews or Cristians. Palestinian don't agree to only West Bank or Gaza territory. They want all israel , and you know what they mean. Anything of that they don't hide.
@@olgay555 Israel wanted control over the borders. With how Israel treats the Palestinian territories now, I doubt that a two-state solution would even end the illegal settlements. The longer this conflict goes on and the worse it gets, the more I think that the only realistic solution would be for Palestinians and Israelis to share a single state with equal rights for everyone, but Israeli Jews would no longer have their priviliged majority status in their own ethnostate.
Wow. From what I’ve read of most of the negative comments people are not really listening to what Sam is saying. I may not agree with everything he says but I did make the effort to understand what he’s saying. Apparently nuance escapes the notice of angry people.
@@tamhiker1 you made OP's point. You didn't listen.
Share an argument of his, word for word, and challenge why it is incorrect.
You won't, and can't.
So what is he actually saying then?
@@waleedalam7927 he said it in the video. If there’s a bit you want to challenge, say what it is and someone can explain it to you.
@@maxfairclough3600 Say it straight up. I don't like to beat around the bush.
@@waleedalam7927 watch the video if you want to know what he’s saying. If you don’t know what he’s saying, then what’s your problem?
I am very impressed with Sam Harris's steadfastness in the face of the four-way communist-fascist-Islamist-wokeist alliance
The last soldier defending Enlightenment, Rationalism, Liberalism, Modernity and Western civilization
Lol dude
Someone's been going a little heavy on the amphetamines and binge watching Newsmax
If by "western civilization" you mean colonialism, apartheid, and genocide, then you're actually correct. Most of the west has largely moved on from their old empires though. The way that Israeli officials call Palestinians human animals and say that there are no innocent Gazans is truly reminiscent of colonialist rhetoric from over a century ago; Israel is like a hold over from the age of imperialism, a country out of time.
@@yee2631 ah yes the genocide, almost no jews live in other middle eastern countries nor in Africa. Muslim population in gaza is leading the charts so to say in fertility.
Israelis have shown more compassion for arabs than vice versa, they let arab muslims in their goverment, muslims are free to practice their religion especially in east Erusalim where jews are forbidden to pray, the have even given medical assistance to hamas members in the past or PLO members and give work permits. I have not seen a single good act from a musllim towards a jew. When they killed civilians who were partying on a rave event(event for a cause = > helping palestinians) and mutilated their bodies and taped it for enjoyment, muslims civilians in Gaza and in fact most of Europe were celebrating on streets, imagine jews going out in streets now and celebrating IDF killing some civilians? ofc you cant cause they arent equal
"It can't be Israel's wrong. It has to be the conservatives, liberals, leftists, communists, Muslims, atheists, Christians, and American Jews who all agree that are wrong."
Sam's final words in this clip - "WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME SENSE OF PROPORTION" - I know you're not big on humour Sam but that would be hilarious if the reality wasn't so tragic.
This needs known b4 anything else is considered, b4 peace can b discussed.
Atheism is a cult of feelings, so you can't expect this guy to offer a view that isn't biased towards his own self interests.
So sad… used to be a fan but clearly such a biased podcaster. This is what I heard:
“Some murder is worse than others. So support the version of murder that Israel is doing”
The whole reason people are protesting is because Hamas is seen as evil for murdering innocent people but for some reason it isn’t bad when Israel does the same. There is no justification for murder no matter what group or side you are in. 0:02
Of course there is justification. Death penalty dealt by the state is not the same as being randomly murdered by a thief.
Self defence violence is not the same as offensive violence.
I can't really believe that you don't understand this.
Weird, because that's not what he said. If that's what you heard, then you need to check your hearing, or your bias.
Sam Harris is a great example of how good presentation can hide low-quality thinking. He speaks well. But everything he says is either obvious, simplistic, biased, or just plain wrong.
true
Welcome to the Right Wing, Sammy
LOL...for example? I am nothing but a fan of Sam so try me you troll....let's see who the ignorant one is...
Another Russian bot
What's incorrect?
" ... we have to have some sense of proportion." True. First, though, elements of the media and armchair "analysts" must ATTEMPT to have some sense of proportion. Unfortunately, they don't even appear to have the remotest interest in facts, logic, and fairness.
Why proportion? Intent is all that matters. The intent is genocide. This is genocide apologia.
@@waleedalam7927 Which "this" is genocide apologia? To have a sense of proportion about genocide is to recognize that the intention/policy/creed has zero moral value, and hence is not defensible.
@@Present-Tense you straight up are not making any sense. But then again you don't get to face the difficulties while being arm
chair moralist.
@@waleedalam7927 You, troll, are straight up are not making any sense. But then again you don't get to make sense while promoting an immoral agenda.
@@waleedalam7927 As Sam and others have observed, if the intention is genocide then it is the most ineptly-conducted genocide in the history of warfare.
Before the war started, there were about 2,300,000 people living in the Gaza Strip.
There are still about 2,300,000 people living in the Gaza Strip.
TDS broke Sam
When you're position leads you to defend the murder of children, maybe you should re think it
Civilian death is a byproduct of war, especially when the terrorist regime choose to hide amongst children. Want to know how many innocents were killed by the British during WW2 when the Nazi’s did same thing Hamas are doing? It’s a lot.
Funny how followers of Islam are the ones committing acts of terror all around the world yet this time they’re the innocent ones isn’t it? Please name all the acts of terror committed by Jews in the name of Judaism. When you’ve done so I’ll list all of those committed by Muslims in the name of Islam and we’ll compare.
Sam, you gain my admiration during the Religion Debates of mid 2000's.
What happened? Your judgment ain't right.
We are witnessing a 76 year cumulative human rights violations bursting into a genocide in PLAIN VIEW... and you somehow decide to justify it?
Let's actually make sense, shall we?
Firstly, This is not a war.... a war requires two armies.
Here you have one of the most advanced and well financed military in the world, with a budget of $24 billion per year, part of it paid by US Taxpayers. with half a million well trained and well equipped soldiers; More than 2,000 tanks, Hundreds of artillery units, 339 combat capable aircraft, an Advanced missile surveillance systems or Air Dome, 14 Corvettes, 8 Missile boats, 5 Submarines Dolphin class, 45 Patrol boats, another 45 Support ships. The Israeli navy also has an aircraft carrier, battlecruiser, destroyers, frigate, and a huge drone arsenal.
And who is this mighty army "fighting" anyway? About 20.000 starving teenagers or men in their early 20s, using AK-47 that are 50 years old, riding civilian Hi-Lux pickup trucks, making rockets out of fertilizer and old PVC water drainage pipes... Lets not forget, that army is responsible for the 30.000 civilian children, women and elderly plus another 10.000 who are still buried under the rouble... What an even war, says nobody...
What we witnesses on october the 7th, 2023 was a Concentration Camp breakout, carried out in desperation for over 76 years of illegal military occupation and oppression under apartheid conditions. Here is why;
Please Think about this:
Who are the natives of the land? The Palestinian people. Of the estimated 950,000 Palestinians that lived in the territory always called Palestine that later became Israel after the 1947 UN resolution, over 80% were illegally and forcibly expelled from their own land (read Nabka) and 20%, some 156,000, remained. Currently, 5 million Palestinian people living under the territory occupied militarily by Israel today, are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. None of the 80% percent of Palestinians who were forcibly displaced has been granted the right to return to their land. That means, there are no Palestinians living under occupation, who were not actually BORN in the land.
Who is (illegally) Militarily Occupying Palestinian territory for over 76 years? That mighty Israeli army, described above. There were about 500,000 jews living in Palestine in the 1920, but all of them carried a Palestinian Passport, including prime minister Golda Mier, by her own words in a British TV interview in 1970: "I am a Palestinian" despite being born in Kiev Ukraine. From 1922 to 1947, there was a large influx of Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe to Palestine. The number of immigrants increased in the 1930s due to Nazi persecution of Jews. A recent DNA study By THE HEBREW UNIVERSITY OF JERUSALEM (November 30, 2022) found that current Ashkenazi Jewish linaje comes from West Germany and Eastern European countries. Far, far from Palestine.
Then, PLEASE THINK LOGICALLY, as we all know you can; Who has the native-born Inherent right to defend themselves from invasion, colonizing, land-grabbing and dispossession? Yes again: The Palestinian people.
Moreover, Israel has been unable to adopt a constitution, because of a conflict over what constitutes fundamental law, human rights, and responsibilities within Israeli FOR ALL THE PEOPLE BORN IN THE LAND. this lack of Constitutional basic protections of human rights has allowed the Israeli goverment to form a de-facto apartheid state since 1948.
According to Amnesty International, Israel has imposed a system of oppression and domination against Palestinians that amounts to apartheid, which is prohibited in international law. This system includes:
- Separate systems of law: Israel has applied two separate systems of law in the same area, based on nationality
- Discrimination: Israel has created a regime of separation based on discrimination
- Benefits Jewish Israelis: Israel has established and maintained a Jewish demographic majority, and maximizes control over land and resources to benefit Jewish Israelis
- Exclusions: Israel has excluded Palestinian refugees
- Fragmentation: Israel has left Palestinians fragmented geographically and politically
- Poverty: Israel has left Palestinians frequently impoverished
- Fear and insecurity: Israel has left Palestinians in a constant state of fear and insecurity
According to The Human Rights Watch, apartheid is a crime against humanity, and consists of three primary elements:
- An intent to maintain domination by one racial group over another. THIS IS VERIFIABLY TRUE.
- A context of systematic oppression by the dominant group over the marginalized group. THIS IS VERIFIABLY TRUE
- Inhumane acts such as “forcible transfer” and “expropriation of landed property”. THIS IS ALSO VERIFIABLY TRUE.
All the necessary conditions for apartheid check in the current state. This is not only illegal. its inmoral and more importantly, unsustainable.
What's needed is a written Constitution, on which Jewish and Palestinian people ACTUALLY BORN IN THE LAND have the same rights, freedoms and opportunities.
A Constitution which will allowed for a truly democratically elected self-goverment by the people and for the people ACTUALLY BORN IN THE LAND
A Constitution which will DECIDE THE NAME OF THE COUNTRY by a truly democratically process including ALL THE PEOPLE ACTUALLY BORN IN THE LAND
Now this would Make Sense!
Anything else, including of course the status quo, is nonsense, unacceptable, impracticable and unsustainable; wouldn't you agree?
One word, Nonsense
German army in Europe in 1944 was facing resistance in occupied territories ,,,
they could say the same thing : resistance uses human shields ...by just ...resisting so we have to ..........innocent population ...
Would Sam be saying this if he wasn’t Jewish and he was in there position and that was his children and family in Gaza?
Yes
His one of the most outspoken atheist of all time why would you think theirs a Jewish bias.
@Yossarianhoenikker no, he wouldn't. He's a jew siding with his deranged tribe
@@MelonCapital cuz he was raised Jewish.
@@JayM- His father, born in North Carolina, came from a Quaker background, and his mother is Jewish but not religious.[15] He was raised by his mother following his parents' divorce when he was age two.[16] Harris has stated that his upbringing was entirely secular and that his parents rarely discussed religion, though he also stated that he was not raised as an atheist. Source Wiki.
I have the upmost respect for Sam Harris. For all he has done , does and will do in the future. I fear though on this issue he sees through one eye only.
Man, this is one of the easiest moral issues possible. Every single criticism that you make of Israel can be also made for the other side, except they are always worse. The only thing going for palestinians is their own incompetence: they haven't killed as many israelis because they weren't able to do it. They are using 'stones' vs 'tanks' because they can't develop tanks. If you attribute free will to both sides and hold both sides responsible for their decisions, it is pretty easy to see that palestinians suffer because of their decisions.
It is you who has one eye shut...not Sam. Let's debate why...I will reply if you will.
@@rustyosgood5667 i can help. this is like, the easiest moral conflict ever
i) Using recent conflicts, especially ones that the US has been involved in, to 'justify' what Israel is doing is nonsensical.
When the US does it - illegal war and mass murder in Vietnam, illegal invasion of Iraq, obscene support for genocidal
dictators in Latin America, Indonesia, etc. - it's wrong. Wrong! And when Israel does it it's also wrong.
ii) Defending Israeli behavior as 'unavoidable' because of how Hamas positions its tunnels and rockets amidst civilian populations
has some merit. It might seem lame, but one might respond to this by also pointing out:
a) it's a sort of irregular guerilla warfare against an illegal quasi-colonialist power (no, Gaza has not been 'free'
since Ariel Sharon closed the Jewish settlements there in 2005, Israel quickly started a blockade after Hamas won
free elections, and Israel pursued a clear strategy of separating the West Bank and Gaza economically and politically
so that is could continue annexing the West Bank and 'containing' Hamas with the help of intermittent massive econocidal
bombing campaigns; see Sarah Roy and other scholars in the recent book "Deluge: Deluge: Gaza and Israel from Crisis to Cataclysm");
b) As such, Harris totally neglects the history of Gaza up to this point;
c) Israel's behavior is consistent with its 'Dahiya Doctrine' of destroying the village from which a shot comes
(= collective punishment = dismantling of infrastructure = mass murder),
iii) Going on to assert that Israel must also dismantle the Islamic state of Iran is lunatic; dismantle the state that
resulted from blowback against the Shah's dictorship, which we installed because Iran's secular democracy dared to nationalize
the precursor to BP, i.e. the 'Anglo-Iranian Oil Co.', which was a state within a state after WW II?
iv) Israel's settlements have been infinitely more destructive to Palestinian society than Jihadists have been to
Israeli society. Suicide bombings, shootings and kidnappings of unarmed civilians are horrible, but Israel has been engaged
in the demographic, economic and political dismantling of Palestinian society since...
Well, I start at 1967. Yes, terrible things happened on both sides before then, but rather than argue over how we
should 'judge' early Zionism - Uri Avneri, the great Israel peace activist, said 'We Jews were fleeing a burning house, and we
fell on someone else' -- I like to to start with '67 and the huge question: what would Israel do with the territories it
conquered? And what we did was colonize, annex, dispossess, humiliate, arrest, deport, and destroy.
Sam Harris: atheism for thee, not for me.
Way too simplistic and unnuanced...
Says someone who has no name and no picture...aren't we sophisticated?
@@rustyosgood5667 he’s a Russian bot like the rest of them
I wish I didn’t listen this, the fact that this guy justifies a criminal state is mind blowing
To be called the "good guys", it is not sufficient to simply be better than your opponent. It's not a relative measure. It is a measure in and of itself. I think you are missing the mark here, Sam.
Israel are doing pretty good compared to how other countries at war treat each other. Your failure is in being completely unable to understand who the adversary is. There has never been a monster like Hamas.
The consequence of your argument is that Hamas needs to be judged by the same standards. What are the standards you’re applying? You could claim there are no good guys.
@@joge2468 That is EXACTLY what I am claiming. I judge all by the same standard.
@@ebendaggett704 What’s your standard?
@@joge2468 At the most basic level, the standard includes not slaughtering innocent civilians. I apply that standard to all sides. It's a fairly simple concept.
❤ Sam Harris is so hasbara-aMazzzzing. Yeoiaw!!!!!!! woop!
Sam I have all the respect for you and enjoyed listening to you views and wisdom. But like many of your peers who have deep ties with Israel, there is some problematic deep rooted harmful bias, that I fail to understand. It’s a shame to see you on the wrong side of history is when it’s done with
They made a terrible mistake, 3 times? At the same group? Seriously Sam GFY at this point.
Seriously just blocking you at what point is your continued stupidity of listening to the approved narrative and believing it a deliberate act?
On a designated road, driving a designated vehicle, after they called to check it was safe to travel... Sam has lost a lot of respect recently
@@GeorgeOhYesPlease and you don't mention the priors. "They got form," as the UK would say. Rachel Corrie?
Sam was on Jeff's island as a result the ruling class owns him
👌🏻
The cognitive dissonance is out of this world.
Sam Harris, the IQ of a mosquito.” Kyle Kulinski
Kyle Kulinski, didn't know his name before now. American commentator with frosted tips vs PhD in cognitive neuroscience? I'm not even that big of a Sam Harris fan but to attack his IQ is just a really bad strategy.
As an Iranian, i thank you for this amazing clip. ❤
EW🤢🤮
I have yet to meet an Iranian I didn't like. Here in Silicon Valley, I have met many...all wonderful people!
@@rustyosgood5667 ♥️♥️♥️
@@rustyosgood5667 And have you met any who support Hamas?
@@philipskalla4312 I haven't asked them but I doubt that they do.
Do you believe the creator of everything gave a specific piece of land to a specific ethnic group?
Yes or no. That's the question. Everything else is obfuscation.
I don't see how that is relevant at all. Believing Jewish people shouldn't have an ethno-state, which they don't given they have an Arab population living there - but I'll grant you that it ostensibly exists for that reason - doesn't justify a mass killing of them.
That basically has nothing to do with it at this moment.
@@Alnivol666 says who?
@@jason666king common sense
@@Alnivol666 your refusal to answer the question is actually an answer. And sorry, racism isn't common sense.
in general i agree, but i dont call israel "the good guys." i dont call anyone in war the good guys. even if the reason for war is just/"good" on one side, no one is really "good" in war
Well, foolish people who believe in the "just world" fallacy like to believe that whoever wins a war is the "good guy" by default, no questions asked.
intentions matter.
?
Sam Harist is simply a dualist on such matters
Well, this podcast didn't go over as planned!
Thanks Sam. You are the voice of reason in a warped world that cant see past antisemitism and hypocrisy relating to anything Israel does to defend itself from these monsters (Hamas, not the average Gazan).
And yes I am also very much against netayahu and we are all very hopeful to replace him with a moderate government that will push for peace so that everyone in the region can live in dignity.
Ignores the restrictions to humanitarian aid as a famine ensues or the rhetoric from government officials.
Yes, Hamas are vile but the Israeli's have denied the Palestinian's national rights since 1947 and continue to settle their lands to this day, while blocking the return of refugees to their homeland. Sam: "Everything we care about only exists on one side".....tripe.
@@seanquinn2476there is humanitarian aid in Gaza. There are hundreds of trucks entering daily.
Israel was prepared to accept a Palestinian state multiple times since 1948. Hamas meanwhile still fails to recognize Israel as a country.
@@domsnow6418 Not near enough. The US/EU needed to airdrop aid in and build a temporary pier because Israel wouldn't cooperate. Aid workers there have described it as the "fastest decline in a population's nutrition status ever".
Every single offer given to Palestinians proposed a Palestinian "state" with no sovereignty over water resources, no sovereignty over the airspace & borders, nor the ability to decide its own international alliances without Israels permission. A state without sovereignty.
@@seanquinn2476 so it‘s not a denial of national rights but rather a denial of the specific state they‘d like.
Israel is not the only state with a border to gaza. Why is there no aid brought in via the state gaza is not at war with?
@@seanquinn2476 You are missing the part between 1948 and 1967 when Israel was not in control of gaza and west bank and Palestinians showed no desire to create their own state in that lands. Plo at the start in 1964 only wanted Israeli lands and not Gaza and west bank. I can admit Israeli wrong doings in history, but let's not pretend that any Palestinian "liberation" movement was interested in Palestinian state. Hamas goal is destruction of Israel and slaughter of jews, they say it openly. PLO goal was to get a state in order to fight Israel on more equal footing(you can find Arafats speeches in Arabic). We alse have Hezbollah and Iran.
In order to create a stable Palestinian state it must not be at expense of Israeli security. Otherwise it will lead to another more bloody war.
for me at least this is obvious. And when I talk to some of the people on the "left", they say that ultimate goal is still a destruction of Israel (from the river to the sea). They don't care about palestinan well being at all. In their mind they exist only as a tool to achieve their ideological desires.