Difference Between Cat 1 and Cat 5 - Davis 4th of July Crit Breakdown with Cameron Jeffers
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2019
- Criterium race analysis with Cameron Jeffers. We discuss the difference between category 1 and category 5 racing, and also the difference between racing in the UK vs the US.
Thanks to David and Jesse for providing footage.
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Awesome to be on your channel man. Had a lot of fun! Tried my best to share the little I do know about Crit racing and sorry if I was too critical 😂 let’s do this again some time!
Hey Cameron, I didn't realise we weren't allowed onboard cameras in the UK. Guess I got lucky using my gopro at my first ever crit earlier this week! Do BC have any plans to relax these rules?
Great to see Cam reaching a wider audience. In the UK, most riders learn cornering skills in the Youth categories as they are racing crits from March onwards, and many ride CX also. It's the newbie Senior riders that need coaching to develop these skills.
@@matt.rus1 There was a vlog within the past couple of weeks on Cam's channel where he talked about BC. IIRC he was frustrated that BC wasn't doing as much as he felt they could do to grow the sport through creators.
@@iammars142 thanks! Its a shame because I'm sure a lot of race organisers would be happy for their events to be advertised to a wider audience
@@iammars142 just stumbled on this video purely because I was hunting for uk crit races :( it's such a shame they don't allow it. Would massively grow the sport, the type of riding, and we could all learn and improve! I only got into crits due to these awesome videos. Plus it's two years on from this original thread! Is there a way we could lobby for a change? @Cameronjeffers
The collab we didnt know we needed
So you're admitting you needed it? 🤔😆
@@NorCalCycling Yes it was very much needed, love both content creators.
😂😂😂😂😂
YES!
This collab is the equivalent of Kawhi to the Clippers with PG. Out of left field, but hell yes I’ll take it
if you can imagine riding with 80 guys with the skills from the cat 4 race, but at the speed of the p/1/2 race and you have criterium racing in Germany :D
Cam made an excellent video highlighting why it is beneficial for the growth of sport/sponsor visibility for riders to video the races.
This is a great point
Cameron Jeffers was awesome. Longer commentary on some of the more interesting crits and road races would definitely be a great addition to the channel.
I thought this kid got banned from cycling.
@@gabeh.4297 got banned for 6 months for botting to get a bike in zwift. Think the ban was from british cycling and zwift? But defs british cycling. Hes been back for a few months now, hes won a few of the british cycling series races recently.
Yes, please have Cam on again!
It still amazes me how fast some can ride. I'd be going full steam and a group just rides by like im standing still while casually chit chatting away...
100 F is 38 C. Hot. Great commentary!
Definitely the two channels that got me into riding this year. This was an amazing surprise.
Thank you for the comparison
After watching some of the lower cat races, have much more confident and knowledge to do my first one
nice collab
Yes, please do a longer form chat with Cam. That would be awesome. I'd love to hear more about the differences between US and UK crit cycling.
More of my two favourite channels brought together into one? Yes please. 👍
Damn that’s rough no cameras allowed in UK racing
Same here in Melbourne Australia, it's a bummer!
Wow, an international collaboration! This is yet again another level 👏🤯
Wow, 2 of my favorite cycling channels in one video! What a surprise
hey jeff love the vids. really stoked when i saw u today on prospect road!!
Love the collabs! Would love to hear you 2 again and it also would be cool to hear you and vegan cycling talk as his team/he is in a lot of the races you do.
Great stuff! Please keep them coming!!
having that cat 5 footage and having the critique was so useful!
my two favorites! more please
Your first race??? You were able to spent 15min in the front? I mean... I spent 15min in the peloton and got dropped
He came from running, so he already had a pretty good fitness when he started cycling
I remember racing crits on much tighter and narrower roads, they were closed but almost always village and town centres or industrial estates in Holland and Germany. 150 or so starters. It was crazy sometimes but you learnt how handle a bike. This was back in the 1980’s.
Great insight as ever @Cameron Jeffers is a solid racer and followed him for some time now, your channel has helped me go from up from 4th cat to 3rd cat in the UK. Love a good Crit but can we get some Road Races as well?
Wtf. I was a low level amateur racer in Holland from 8 to 21 in 2011. I only participated in some local competitions at that point, and I thought I wasn't good enough for the sport for not being able to keep up after a certain amount of laps. And wasn't able to invest 10 hours a week in training, which is the main reason I quit. Now I see this video and am realizing that we rode roughly at the level of those guys in the first video. I feel like I would have been able to destroy the competition in that second vid. Perhaps I should give it another go with the seniors.
Eens! Ik denk dat het basis niveau in Nederland, zelfs alleen al met startlicentie, een stuk hoger ligt dan in de USA. Cat 1 gaat wel erg hard, maar ik denk dat de meeste getrainde criterium rijders zeker wel cat 2 of 3 kunnen rijden.
@@Robbertmld Ik woon nu in het zuiden van Engeland en ben praktisch gestopt met fietsen. Het is hier wel mooi om af en toe een plezierritje te doen in de heuvels, maar er zijn amper wedstrijden in de buurt. Daarnaast ben ik een stuk zwaarder geworden en ben vrij groot en gemaakt voor het vlakke. Ik begrijp nu waarom alle goede lui uit VK van de baan komen of van het mountainbiken.
YEAH THE COLLAB!
Thanks very much for the commentary on the 4-5s. I'm a new crit racer (well, technically I guess I will be in 2021 ... covid) and having this perspective is extremely helpful in understanding strategy and so things to focus on even before I get started.
Practice group riding AND find an empty parking lot to practice cornering ALOT.
Wow, the second video looks like a no drop Sunday ride
Never expected Cameron Jeffers to do a dual commentary on this channel
"I feel like we could talk for like 40 or 50 minutes" DO IT. Lol
linglingjr YES!
To help in remembering temperature unit conversions at the hotter side of weather ranges, just remember that normal human body temp is 37°C or 98.7°F. So 100°F is going to be warmer than 37°C, and is in fact 37.8°C.
Nice one British Cycling, a great way to entice the next generation of riders............
Great commentary!
HEY NEW CZcams ICON :D congrats !!! ^^
I'd love some more tips on cat 5/4 racing ! Great video
Get so ridiculously fit AND skillful that you can break away from the gun and not have to worry about riding in the group of mismatched skills and fitness.
definitely do that again
Great stuff, more vids with cam plzz
I love these videos, I wish Sweden had a crit scene
Learned a lot from this video. Appreciate it. I wanted to ask , what tires are most of the riders including yourself, on the west coast using ? The benchmark Contis ? Or what’s popular there ??
Keep bringing on the guest reviews.
the biggest difference between euro racing and american racing is the fact that there are way more races in europe. It allows you to have a lot more fun and try a bunch of different things during each race because if it doesn't work out for you in one race you know in a couple days you have another big race. also there are way more stage races
Great comparison
What are they using to video their race? Its nice that it shows all the data along with video footage.
i see this and now i feel like i can race. all ur other videos i watch in awww just like jesus these guys are wayyyyy faster than me
master 4/5 compared to open p12. It is called age and having to go to work on monday. lol
I find it hard to believe that the masters rider was older than 30. Look at his heart rate, he's sitting well above 170 bpm almost all the time and in the end goes past 190 easily. I'm 30 soon, can't sustain 170+ for more than a few minutes and usually fade before reaching 180. But then again I know max heart rate can vary quite a lot between people of same age...
@@ithanil4429 I'm a former cat one rider, now 46 years old and my max heart rate is 193 BPM.
@@berthull9333 Incredible, thanks for responding :)
at least half of the 1/2 field also works on monday
@@ithanil4429 I'm 47yrs old, former cat1P rider and currently race masters 1 or cat 2 due to age and needing to work long weeks, but my heart rate still maxes out at 197. When I was racing in my 20's my max was 217!
38C Cam...GB does not know this temp
huntingsynth haha. Sorry guys!!
Only 38? *Laughs in Australian
They do now XD After past weeks heatwave
For what it’s worth, I spend most summers in 40C Spain, Murcia. That was muchhhhh more bearable than last weeks heatwave that was maybe 33C in my area. It’s meant to be something about the humidity but I’m not a weatherman!
I can barely walk in 38 degrees let alone race. Doesn't seem safe to me.
Bro I never I saw this collab coming
I love your videos! I'm wondering how you include map, power, heart and speed data in the video.
I made a video about it. Check out my channel.
Cameron Jeffers The GoPro on the bike is not allowed in France too. But many do that aniway whithout problem. Maybe you can ask if you can record some UK race : it's a good mean to promote the sport.
It'd be great to see Cam come down some time to do a crit with Team Terun and do a collab commentary.
Whuuuut Cameron this is an amazing suprise 4 me😅
OK thats the slowest Cat 4/5 crit I have ever seen...and I race NORCAL
IKR. I thought maybe his power meter was broken or something cause it looked like he was coasting thru every straight at 0 watts and then putting down power after a turn just to coast again.
It’s a M35+/45+ 4/5 race and there were a lot of sketchy riders.
Probably down to the fov angle of the camera.
WTF this came out of no ware great collab!!!
Cool collab
What do you use to track your data in your videos?
Do a Southern California Crit analysis with Cam. SoCal crits are insane.
Can we have more collabs like this?
Davis crit was the last race I did in college in 1982. Everybody pedaled around the corners, lots of crashes.
it's (nearly) 40 degrees C, Cameron!
37.8 to be more exact. Round about body core temperature. Good way to remember.
@@OyvindAakvik Thanks. I edited to say (nearly) 40 degrees. ;-) Damn hot no matter which way you slice it! It's not often that you see guys doing crits with two water bottles!
I can’t even imagine :) I’m from Norway. We don’t know such temperatures :) sick!
syncing footage from a P/1/2 and cat 4 crit and doing a side by side might be really illuminating. If you ran the cat 4 race at ~107% speed, I bet they would stay synced pretty well (26 vs 28 mph)
Cool collab!. Both of your countries have categories. And crits. That's so awesome. We have neither :D. Just around 10-15 road races per year. Each of them has 2 distances. 1-1.5h and 2-3h distance. Field for each distance is around 150-200. Except my home town race where it's 2000-2500 riders each distance :). They're all free for all, 4-up tandems, guys riding in giraffe costumes and what not. The president riding as well. I dream of categories and crits...
Wow, the last race I did in college, in 1982.
I don't even own a bike. Never considered racing. Here I am for my 8th video from this man today.
My man
What's the background for cameras being frowned upon in the peloton in the UK?
Peter Liljebladh they love making laws.
Criterium: Tiresome parade (unless there are pileups) with a sprint at the end.
blimey, what an unlikely combo.
What was that guy on the left in the P12 who sat up about 50m before the finish line doing? Who sits up before the line? Looked pretty dangerous, as everyone else was going about 3x faster than he was for the line.
I thought the same thing. He gave up like 4 positions cause he just....stopped.
Loved seeing this. Makes me feel a lot bettet about my own abilities as compared to the Cat5 guys. I assumed I could never race based on everything I've seen.
What bike do you use to race? I've been trying to figure out with quick glimpses in your videos but I cannot seem to figure it out. I'm 15 and I'm trying to get into the world of bike racing if anyone could recommend a good race bike that goes from 2,000-3,000 USD. I live in the North East USA, where there are a lot of hills and valleys. Thank you!
If you like to race crits go get an aero road bike
@@s1mpleniko488 Yea, I ended up finding myself a Specialized Allez for about $1,200 USD, coming with Zipp 404's, carbon seatpost, carbon seat, carbon fork, carbon handlebars, carbon stem, and SRAM Red. I think it was a pretty good find, and the guy used to do crit racing professionally for 10+ years. I like crit racing but I may try some longer races too, as those seem a lot less dangerous.
@@eitanfrankowitz6992 well i know nothing about bikes😂. Only the basic ones like aero' lightweight, endurance and TT type of bikes hehe
@@s1mpleniko488 Oh haha, you were not incorrect however with your assumptions. With crits, it totally depends on the speed you are racing, so if you are just a beginner then you will not need an aero bike.
@@eitanfrankowitz6992 im starting to know little about cycling because of videos because im planning to get into cycling so im still planning on buying a bike btw im 14
What's your 5 and 20 second max power?
What tire sizes you guys run with?
100F is 37.7 repeating C, for anyone who is confused @1:43. 28-30C would be pleasant.
CAMERON JEFF FTW!!!!!
Ok, there's a beginner crit, 1 or no prior races, for a charity I'm thinking about doing for the experience of something different. I'm not young by any means, but I'm pretty good in shape, so in a not big bike area of the US, would you suspect there will be others similar to me? Yea, I just don't want to look like a fool.. LOL..
Might want to change the thumbnail!
One serious question I have is why are these crits always on such crazily short courses? Is that on purpose or are there any specific reasons? This seems more like mario kart than actual bycicle racing.
The wattages of the cat 5 rider are WAY too high for what was happening. Creative editing, or does the guy weigh 400 pounds?
Denny Rowe III I’m the Cat5 guy and I weigh 200lbs. PM numbers are accurate.
@@ruffrydazz2032 800W @ 28km/h doesn´t seem real
@@ronen6796 speed sensor seemed off, it would spike from 20 to 30 within 2 seconds
Legit thought this was cam's video then heard the voice
Norcal cycling to join the groupetto podcast
What category are you Jeff
lol, that's me getting passed at the line in the p1/2! didn't realize there was someone that close to me and also kinda didn't matter at that point XD even showed it to the end there a couple times...
If LA Legion was at the front it would be single file
Really?
question: if i come to a vacation in the USA can i participate in crit races?
Yeah, usually they let you race in the equilivant level of your home country, as long as you have a racing lisence there.
You can buy a 1-day USA Cycling license for like $10 online or at the race venue day of to race Cat 5, then tack on $35-$40 for race fees.
why switch to the outside instead of the inside?
The heart rate in the master's athlete was suspicious. It was too high for someone that has aged. And it didn't decelerate during the pauses between sprints. You'd expect to see some deceleration once the power went to 0. Maybe the rider had a ton of lactate to clear, and was riding at the limit.
No true. Everyone is different. I'm 55 and my heart rate can get up to the mid 180's.
Nah, as I responded to another comment, I'm 47yrs old, former cat1P rider and currently race masters 1 or cat 2 due to age and need to work long weeks, but my heart rate still maxes out at 197. When I was racing in my 20's my max was 217!
Definitely a repeat guest👍👍
Of course the p12 looks much faster they were in the last few laps, I've done a lot of 4,5 races back when with a average 24 25 and sprints close to 40
bit late... but why are on board cameras banned in the UK? Literally what is the downside...
The difference in standard between Cat4 Uk and Cat5 US is massive, races seem more accessible in the US whereas racing in the UK is a much smaller scene.
There is something to be said that northern California is going to have some of the highest road race numbers in the country. In most of the US it isn't uncommon to have a Cat 5 field around 10 people. Often it is a combined 4/5 field.
@@littlep2000 Who are the US categories governed by, how do you progress etc.
@@Thepedallingpilot The categories sre ultimately governed by USA Cycling, and the local officials at the race are who you go to for your upgrade. Cat 5 to 4 is basically you have finished a few races, no-one has pointed you out to the officials as a danger, and you want to get in a faster race.
After cat 4, you have to have results in mass start events to move up. Usually a couple of wins, or sufficient top ten results to show you are competent at handling in your current category and fit enough to hang on with the next one up.
I think they said this was a Masters race (probably 45+?), as well as being lower category.
@@biedawo Not sure if Masters category in the US s different from the ones up here in Canada, but you can enter Masters when you're 30+ (as per UCI rules). We also don't have a Cat 5.
Hi bro! Can we have a private chat? I also want to do these cycling race with videos. I'm from Philippines.
Masters and/or 4/5 riders are strong, but it comes down to skill and confidence..which comes with experience. Case in point, you show up at a Grand Fondo and CAT 4's will just crush it...but crits.....nope.
Commenting that "gaps would never open up like that in the P12 field" after having watched riders do nothing but close gaps in the P12 pack 🥳
I'm guessing the Cat 4/5 guy is pushing too large of a gear, they go from 0-700+ in 1sec.
What’s the difference between P1,2 vs cat5s?
Drugs!! Not everyone but almost everyone in the P1,2 do something. I raced for about 9 years and made it to the cat2s and saw too much. Pro cycling is an illusion please don’t comment if you have another made it to the level.
Respectfully,
A big reason for the speed difference between Cat 5 and Cat 1 is because of team tactics. Cat 5 racers don't have a reason to be going hard unlike Cat 1 riders who may be working for a team. It's more dependent on weeding out the weaker riders until you can sprint at the finish. Yes, it's also because of technique and comfortableness, but there's no reason to be going fast unless someone puts out an attack.
Just stay upright to get those 10 mass start races is a pretty good strategy.
You have to be in the top 5 at least with two laps to go to have a shot at the win. Also never sit on wheels in front of you. they are always going slower.
CAMMMMM
More
Some pretty squirrely riders in that P12 crit
What happened in the cat 5 race? You cut out and never went back. I was looking forward to the bunch gallop to the line. Would have been nice to at least give some kudos to the race winner.
So, that was my footage in the 4/5 race (yes, I am slow!). Anyway, I got caught behind a crash with 3 or 4 laps to go and couldn't bridge but the race was won by two guys who made a break off the front from about 10 laps out and were never caught.
Hey, thanks for the reply. I saw the speeds you guys were riding, and you are not slow. Keep the rubber side down; hopefully you'll soon provide a race-winning video. If not, enjoy riding and being fit. Cycling is a great joy that I am no longer able to take part in, but these awesome videos bring back tons of memories. @@ruffrydazz2032
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