My Husband Wants To Leave The Church (I Don’t)
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- čas přidán 27. 10. 2022
- My Husband Wants To Leave The Church (I Don’t)
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I understand the husband’s view about harm. I was a Jehovah’s Witness, my beliefs changed, and I see the devastating harm it has done to our family. My believing family members now shun me and one of my sons because we say we don’t believe it anymore and JWs completely cut off former members. The opposite of true Christianity. Soooo sad 😥
Leaving the Mormon church is the same way. Bc of you leave, your entire family thinks you’re choosing not to be with them in Heaven. Nice, right? This could’ve been my phone call 13 years ago. Glad to be way past it now.
And the Mennonites.
Not exactly. I I left mainstream fundamentalist Christianity and when studying Bible and various topics surrounding it challenging my views I realized JWs were closer than I once thought to the truth. Doesn't mean I'm a JW. The Bible does support separation based on very important views if you read it... just see 1st and 2nd John as a whole if you don't believe me. If these are legit letters(and there's many more references throughout the entire bible) it's okay to cut off people. But I left it all because I refuse to cut people off for not being exactly like me. I just took that old phrase "What would Jesus do?" a little too seriously and then realized Jesus kept the Torah and Jesus has a (one-person) God and that got me thrown out of the church I was in 8 years ago.
@@droptozro The Bible is full of extreme contradictions, I choose to focus on the scriptures about love, forgiveness and not judging others, judging is God’s job, not mine. And, the Bible is a huge book! You can come up with any rule you want and find a scripture or two to support your made up rule. I was a JW for 32 years and I know that religion very well, I disagree with your assessment that they are closer to the “truth” than other religions…that organization condones child sexual abuse, encourages you to lose your life if you need a blood transfusion, and shuns innocent people who just don’t believe it anymore. It’s a dangerous cult that has cost countless thousands their lives. I hope you never get involved with them and please stop defending them, especially since you have never been a JW.
@@inapickle4971 the Bible isn’t filled with contradictions. Actually the Bible repeats the same theme multiple times. You’re probably taking scripture out of context. Like I can guarantee that’s what you’re doing if you think it contradicts itself.
Leaving the mormon church has led to the most satisfying and fruitful years of my life. Not a fun church to be a part of looking back. But when you're in it, you will never see it that way
I am a member of the church and I am very happy. I am the only member in my family. We all have different beliefs.
@@Sissi1830 that's what I thought when I was in it
Same here!
I left the church years ago and have never been more at peace. Good for the husband for seeking truth
@Benjamin Mathew
So are you saying friends can't be made outside a church environment? 🤔 🙄
Same. I left and my life has been much better
@@paxiong4502As you get older, you discover that most people make their friends through religious associations. That’s just a fact.
Same :) @@swiftkarma4436
Agree. That guy will never go back. If he talks to people who have left the church, he'll never go back. I left the Christian church for the same reason, not because of outside influence, but because of the Bible and study.
Regardless of where these two land, I love that they are communicating their concerns to one another and each is very concerned how their actions impact the other spouse and their children. They may worry about negatively effecting their kids, but what they are modeling is honest struggle, true questioning and open mindedness.
So well said, what a great dialogue. I'm more impressed with Dr. John every day. And Brandon and Kristi should be "relationship goals" to many marriages out there. Love!
Right on the money. They're actively seeking resolution, and they're both putting the wellbeing of their children over their own egos. Kudos to them.
If he feels the church isn't legitimate, there isn't much reason for him to go every other week. He also might have religious trauma that the church continues to pull up.
That's fine but why try to stop his wife from going?
@@kellharris2491 Because he understand the truth and loves her and is pretty much saving her from further religious trauma.
@@NoEvidenceForGod if someone wants to go, I see no problem. The issue is that he doesn't want to go and shouldn't be forced to.
💯 true - I was Mormon so I can confirm you are right
@@kellharris2491 it sounds like he was damaged by the church (eg during his mission) and he's worried about his kids being damaged similarly or being turned against him by a community of people who think he's wrong and a bad person.
My mom hit born-again-Christian at about 50 years old. She had a very hard early childhood where Christian missionaries helped my grandmother and my mother and my aunt to leave India, and to settle in Burma, and away from my grandfather. So my mother had a very very large seed of exceptional, Christian Faith, that she put aside a little bit for a few years and then came back to it.
I don’t remember or know why this happened at that time, but once she hit 50 everything was about Jesus and God (kind of obnoxiously if I can say)
My dad was an atheist. Though I’m sure he had some kind of Christian upbringing, he lost a lot of squadron colleagues in the RAF during WWII.
My dad would still escort my mom to church every Sunday. he knew her story and her background and how important some of this was to her. He would listen, he would sing, he would tithe . He would participate as expected for any member of theChurch. And he did that to support my mom.
And to me - that is love.
I remember (i was raised lds) a father decided to leave. The wife shared many tears with the congregation. A lot of us, even the kids, all said wed pray for him and looked down on the family with pity. Some of their comments still affect me since i know its what is said about me since i left. I completely understand the father not wanting to have himself or his kids in that church
My father sat back and let my mother raise us in the JW "faith"--and it harmed us irreparably. I wish my father had sat us down and told us it was not True. Those without faith have just as much right to help their children become independent thinkers, as believers have to tell them what is "true."
💯
Grew up in the Catholic Church, something in my intuition told me it felt off. Left school with no faith, found Christianity at 23 and had really personal experiences with God on my OWN. Church does not define my faith, I would go to be around fellow believers but at the end of the day my relationship with God is my own, and I feel Him and experience Him in ways I can’t describe. I think God is working in this couple, they’ll both grow from this.
Same experience. Being Catholic was/is a huge part of my family history. I read some books, and talked to a priest about my concerns and left feeling even more disconnect. God brought me out of Catholicism and showed me what a personal relationship with him was with no barriers in between. I pray these two can find middle ground and connection so they can keep the respect between each other.
Same experience here. I have a direct relationship with God. Sometimes I choose to go to church sometimes I don't but mostly don't.
@@dianecelento4974 I am the same way. I love church for the friends and healthy community, but most of my talking with God I do in my sacred space on my own, or day to day while driving. I’m sure I look crazy ;) lol
@@Licensed88 I hope they can too! 🧡
❤❤
…I wish there were more calls like this from couples. It was open and respectful, and I really enjoyed it. 😁🌾✝️🕊️
How ever this ends, let's just stop for a moment and notice how beautiful Brandon's "Kristi, what do you think?" was. They both have so much life in them. Good on them.
I detached from the Catholic Church for similar reasons.
It was 38+ years ago and the only thing I miss is the community.
So I started a No Drama Farmers Market. Guess what? My community is of my own making.
I get it.
You detached from the Catholic Church because of your pursuit of truth. What was your top reason for detaching from the Catholic Church?
@@dylan2571 Top Reason?
They say one thing and do another.
In my case, my Father paid $800 to get a 22 year marriage annulled...a marriage that conceived two children...
Religion Stinks.
Faith is Beautiful.
He paid off a priest? Or he had $800 in legal bills? Who told him that money will annul a sacrament? Thats not what the church teaches.
I describe myself as a Recovering Catholic, it's like alcoholism, you never completely recover but I'm working on it.
@gemini_interests someone has to pay for stuff to be done. You don't criticize a restaurant when you have to pay for your meal. An annulment is serious and gets a lot of work. And kids in a bad situation is always miserable, but I suggest the two parents were not going to stay together anyway. The annulment didn't cause the division. And it doesn't cause the character flaws in the parents either
Look at the big brain on Brandon!
"Do I really want to tell my kids something is true, when it clearly is not?"
He should not keep silent because the wife believes differently. It all depends on how he and she approaches the topic. She should not turn the kids against him because he does not agree with her about religion. She should strive to keep communication open, not shut him down or out of their families lives. I don't know where the idea he now feels morally superior is coming from. What if she feels that way about him? As a Jew, I've lived all my life around people whom I do not agree with. I have studied Christianity my adult life. While I reject some doctrines, there is enough in common to relate and understand. I just remind others to love mercy when dealing with other people. I've been condemned to hell more times than I can count by zealous people. Don't treat others like this.
Great post. Jesus was/is a Jew. A Jew who kept the Torah and had the same one-God and Father as all his Jewish brothers and sisters. It took me years of being that person who condemned people like you to "hell" before I hit my own brick wall of understanding on how wrong I was in my own understanding of the Bible.
First second i saw "leave the church" i knew it was lds 😂
Ditto 😂
I thought the same..🤔
Same! ❤
I thought so too but all churches are hard to leave
Could be any denomination or any religion
You knocked this one out of the park, Dr. J.....I'm LDS, and I appreciate your respect and kindness around all beliefs and how things can be distorted while we spend so much time reading negative information. Thank you for being so good - I hope this couple can find common ground in their marriage.
I think you miss understood what John was trying to say. He not saying you shouldn’t read information that’s critical of your faith system. He’s saying that once you have deconstructed to the point where you know that your prior belief system is wrong, it’s no longer helpful to keep reading or doing research. If you continue to read, it’s toxic and it is going to lead to contempt. John is trying to tell this guy that he’s at the point where it’s no longer helpful to continue to deconstruct, and he needs to start to construct a new belief system. Constructing a new belief system is best done in loving community with mentorship- and hopefully with people who understand what he’s going through. It can’t be done on the internet.
You definitely misunderstood what he meant. You NEED to read negative information about your religion or cult. If your belief system can’t handle valid criticism, that’s your first sign that you’re in the latter.
Fact is, LDS is a cult. It’s certifiable. But any other legitimate non cult religious belief system should be able to withstand actual criticism without needing to plug your ears and say “La La La La La” like a child
And you are proof how brainwashed mormons are
@@kendaeberhardt1197I have yet to see close people around me who have left the Church actually construct their own belief system. Usually they spin their wheels at the anti stage. Just like John said, spewing blame and hate, and being condescending to everyone else who stays in the Church because they are "more evolved than that." Id love to actually meet an Ex Mormon who has actually constructed a positive life and belief system. Because pretty much all I've seen is Ex Mormons who dedicate their lives to deconstruction and trying to destroy the Church and those in it
Dear sweet Kathy, if your religion says you get to God by your own works, it is FALSE! It’s through faith in Jesus and his sacrifice at the cross ALONE!
Praise the Lord this man's discernment is back
I have a family member whose husband stopped going. Their teenage daughter has also become an atheist and also wants to stop going but doesn't know how to tell their mom. Religion is such a personal thing, and no one should be forced to go.
The husband is trying to stop his wife from going. Not the other way around.
@kellharris2491 I mean if someone was taking money from my spouse and lying to them I'd want to stop them from going too
Your words will judge you in a huge way and I hurt for you.
Who told you religion is a personal thing?
Who told you Christianity is a religion?
Who told you that it is ok affirm atheism, specially in a teenager?
@@oterosocram25 I'm not asking anyone to act a martyr and hurt for me. There are plenty of real issues to hurt for in this world.
@@oterosocram25 we're all born atheist. Why should kids be initiated I to any religion?that's child abuse
Hopefully they keep asking questions and looking for truth together. It's good she's acknowledging she doesn't know the answers.
I hope so, too. When my husband first started asking questions I was so scared. I turned to reading the Bible and praying for understanding. Long story short: we are both out and so happy. Jesus saves.
Regardless of what you teach the kids, they will form their own thoughts & beliefs in their own time frame!!!! I was in my 50s when my questions began. I've found questions to be a good thing as they will discover their true answers!!!😊
I love the open dialogue here. This couple have a great chance of dealing with this positively. Always go with what’s in your heart.
We left after covid too for the SAME reasons. It’s a GOOD decision to make
Religious people will never understand how it feels to be unable to believe.
Makes no sense, I was an unbeliever for all of my life until now. I know exactly what it is like.
@@daniellifeisprosperous well, if you're religious now it must be because you take the same liberties reading whatever the hell you want into the scriptures as you just did with my post.
@@joisagirlsname I am just responding to your claim. Not everyone who follows Jesus grew up in the faith. I’m a living testimony. God bless.
@@daniellifeisprosperous you didn't read what I WROTE. Religious people will never understand what it's like to be UNABLE to believe. I've heard the pitch a million times, grew up in the church and it simply isn't something I can force myself to believe in. As per usual, you're reading what you WANT it to say, instead of just looking at the damned words to see what it means.
@@joisagirlsname I’m sorry I wasn’t being clear. I was trying to point out that someone who came to their faith later in life knows what it is like to be an unable to believe. While everyone’s experience is unique and I wouldn’t claim to know exactly what walking in your shoes is like, I do remember what it was like to be “unable” to believe. However, at some point circumstances in my life allowed me to be still and have open ears for the Gospel, which I did not expect or plan for. Everyone is capable of believing, but not everyone responds the same or follows the same path. We all put our faith in something each and everyday. Sorry if I had upset you. I hope I cleared it up. Also I remove “religion” from it and emphasize a relationship with the Lord. When Jesus came he rebuked religious leaders for holding so tightly to their traditions at the expense of others. Man can corrupt religion. But no one can interfere with a personal relationship with the Lord. I hope religion has not turned you away from God altogether.
I’m a Christian and I mean no disrespect but I appreciate this guy questioning his faith. I think it’s good for all of us to really scrutinize our beliefs to make sure it’s really what we believe and not just what we’ve been taught. But the Mormon church specifically has so many shady things in its founding and their beliefs, many of which have changed in the last 50 years to match the civil rights movement
Hey Jordan have you ever taken that critical approach to your own beliefs? I was raised as a Christian. The moment I had my daughter I knew I would never let anyone tell her that she deserved to burn alive and be tortured for eternity as Christian doctrine states we all do. I knew I would never teach my DAUGHTER that someone who loves you will be violent towards you. And I knew that the idea of killing someone to atone for the wrongdoing of another person is an inherently immoral belief. I suggest you take Matthew 7:3 to heart when it says, "Why do you notice the spec of sawdust in your brothers eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?".
And newsflash for you mormoms are Christians too if you believe a Christian is someone who believes Jesus was sacrificed (SICK!) for all of our sins and is God.
@@john1425 yeah I’ve definitely had doubts in the past! I’m I’ve struggled with those same things. But through my faith I’ve been able to grow and understand some of these things. But I totally understand what you’re saying
If you are any variety of Christian you have to own its history. Even if you go to a non-denominational church it is a derivative of protestantism, Catholicism etc if you go back in time.
So everything I'm going to say comes from a good place.
I was raised Southern Baptist christian. I questioned the beliefs from the very beginning, even as a child. I believe, philosophically, that some of us are just not meant to believe in this stuff. I think all religions are made up. I will say this, I constantly hear a Christian's dissing other sects of Christianity or other religions. Every religion says they are the only one true religion. That in and of itself is bothersome it should be enough to make you think. So I don't understand how any logical person can still believe because there's such a lack of evidence. People believe because they need to believe in something. That is fine, but when your belief tells you that people that don't believe like you are destined to burn in hell or the people who are in same-sex relationships are just making a bad choice, I have an issue with that. Also, I do not believe people should be voting against human rights just because they believe the Bible says something like being gay is wrong or abortion is murder. People choosing to vote against my human rights based on something that is made up is infuriating.
So, if you believe in your religion does not affect my rights, there's no issue
After a very long struggle of faith and introspection, I left the Christian faith. It's an incredibly difficult thing to do and once you're on the other side of it, there is sometimes a desire to get as far away as possible. This anecdote that Dr. John shared about the atheist professor still going to Church for social reasons? Extremely rare. This sort of difference in belief will be a big strain on their relationship.
There are churches (like the Unitarian Universalists) that try to find wisdom in all religions, while respecting the individual's spiritual journey. Maybe they need to find a place that will expose them to both the social and spiritual aspects of community without requiring them to indoctrinate their children in something they don't believe themselves.
I fully understand that atheist professor though. I left too for different reasons and found myself and my family completely isolated for it. For that professor it's way more about community and relationships than hearing what he agrees with every Sunday. I just find it to be a bit two-faced IF the guy is not up front with all his relationships in the church gathering about his views so he doesn't fool anyone. I suspect the professor does tell people though.
This was a great conversation 👏 I love that you had them both on. Probably a lot of couples find themselves here more than we all know!!!
Dr. Delony has such profound insight in so many subject matters. This helped me a lot!
I just love how calm and honest and kind both of them are to each other in this conversation. And Dr John’s advise about seeking out real community of those who have gone before him is so wise. At the end of the day they are modeling for their kids how to think critically and disagree with one another in a loving way.
Central issue: What do you do when the person you married has a dramatic shift in their beliefs? And your beliefs no longer align?
I agree. But regarding this situation it is also important factor in that what the husband now understands is correct. I am mormon and did the deep dive study into the church as well and learned that many many claims we were taught regarding the origin of the church and it's founder (Joseph Smith) were simply not true. It is not even up for debate that many things Joseph Claimed are verifiable falsehoods. So it is not a "you can believe what you want and I'll believe what I want" situation. It is a, "you have to let me believe a provable lie because I am uncomfortable with change in my social club" situation.
My wife and I are going through the same thing and she simply wants to not think about it. At first she wanted me to speak with higher up church authorities so they can "set me straight" and her jaw was on the ground when they were stuttering and stammering and NOT denying the information and documents I was presenting that proves the church has misrepresented it's history. Supposedly some of the most knowledgeable leaders in our area went toe to toe with me and had circles ran around them regarding the church history. So many times I caught them in deception because they were not aware that I had read documents that most members are not even aware exist. Once they knew that I was aware of those documents, then they had to admit that xy or z church leader did in fact say this or that publicly.
Anyway, even after my wife witnessed church leaders lie and deceive in front of her eyes, she still wants us to keep going to church because this is our community. All of her friends and most of my kids friends are members. It is a big ask from her though because if you are active members, you basically have to pretend to believe or else you are treated as a second class citizen in the organization (which is where I am at because I am open about what I know) .
I think you find common ground in your VALUES (God, stopping to rest once a week, treating others with kindness, etc.) and decide to agree to disagree with various BELIEFS.
@@nickdipaolofan5948exactly this! Ex Mormon here. Once you realize the dangerous brainwashing and cult-like behaviors you can't just go along to get along. It's a hard thing because they have family hijacked.
Love and respect each other, Or your marriage will fail. ❤
One thing to do is to realize what value "going to church" has for your partner, and to respect that (regardless of doctrine, and the history and corruptness of the institution in question).
The other is to show your children, through practice, that going to church is not the *only* way to be a good person and to create those impactful religious/faithful experiences. i.e. That one *can* be atheist (or whatever) and have a strong social and spiritual connections (however you want to define those) outside of the church setting.
😂
Heck, you don't even have to leave the home in order to recreate these experiences: You can show this by the way you treat your partner and children, and by the home environment you cultivate and maintain. And this goes for both parents.
John is right in that the kids will remember 'how they feel' throughout their movement within and without the church, more than the specifics of what is taught in scripture studies. That will, in the end, influence their relationship to the church, faith, each of their parents (individually), and their parents (as a duo).
I'm LDS and I appreciate you handling this with respect for both sides. Thank you.
I read a book about Hinduism. They interviewed a Hindu philosopher. H e was asked how he could be a Hindu when there are temples to rats etc. he responded that people believe what they need to believe. We should not criticize them. I have adopted that attitude in life. I believe in tolerance.
Church and religion blocks u from God. You only need the bible and the holy spirit.
That's good and all. But how are they going to deal with this with the kids? If the dad tells them one thing and the mom tells them another it's gonna be vary confusing for them.
It looks like he’s trying to find the real God and she’s happy with the religion
Agree!
💯💯
Agree completely. I think he's willing to sacrifice what is labeled as 'happiness' (the lds church in his case) and look for truth. But she is just content where she's at and doesn't want to change.
It's fine if he doesn't believe but it's not fair for him to try to stop his wife and family from going if they want to.
This isnt fair. They are both wanting the truth. No one truly knows
I appreciate the sensitivity and love from everyone talking. I know how the husband feels and though I chose to stay his choice is valid too. As long as the couple is able to come together and become stronger through this experience and let their kids choose for themselves, it should work out. I’m glad they’re trying to work things out.
Refreshing to hear from both members of a loving, intelligent couple. Kudos to both parents!
Even coming from "youtube" :)
Yeah I'm not sure what to think of his advice there, lol.
Your hw assignment is so inspired. I agree with you’re statement about the information age we live in is killing our relationships and our communities. We need to connect and listen and live and support and share and communicate in person. So so so so good!!!
Wow, John you did such an amazing job with the advice given here! Such a difficult sensitive thing for a marriage to face, but the focus on respect and the open communication is so key.
Smart man. Listen to your husband
I really enjoyed this episode and props to both John for handling it with care and respect and the couple for being so vulnerable. Every single organisation has, by today’s standards, bad stuff in its history. As those standards continue to change (hopefully for the better) more will come to the surface.
No human (besides Christ) is perfect. Even religious organisations, run by humans on earth, are therefore imperfect. That does not mean they do not have truth or value. What they are striving for at their core is what’s most important. Recognise their value by their fruits.
Do not hold anybody accountable ever. Do not hold institutions accountable ever. Minimize always. Great.
The Mormon church causes incredible harm and does not just have a bad past, but a bad present. The things they teach today are harmful.
This is a very important topic and conversation to have with oneself and additionally one to share with one’s loved ones. I appreciate this couple for deftly and maturely exploring together!
Dr. Delony handled this call so professionally... Wow he has a gift! Peace and connectivity.... God is a personal relationship. God is the answer 🙏🏽
I can completely relate to the husband. I was doing what I was told by going to church. I had questions but I kept going and just wondered about the answers, until one day……
There is a lot going on here. Some advise I agree with but mostly I think finding a couples therapist who has cultural understanding of Mormonism would be their biggest help.
More then anything though I would hope that they are able to stay together and respect one another values and let one another freely share them with their kids and people around them.
Love these shows when both are present! Amazing knowledge from these!
So glad you took this call. It’s similar to our life- and probably a lot more couple are going through this now
Delony is approaching this all wrong - the guy just doesn’t want to teach his kids nonsense - he’s a great father. Delony is acting like he’s doing something wrong.
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and having a member of my family who has left John’s advice is spot on!!!!
Some "churches" are more worthy of leaving than others.
@@LtGrandpoobah I think you missed what john said at 18:08 - 18:37 , might be helpful for you
@@jakebryner4296 Some churches are toxic and based on lies and corruption. Believe what you want, but make sure you’re fully informed.
This was a good call. They talked so open and honestly. Church can be a good thing to be a part of the community and to work hard to be a good person. At the same time, it can push you away and make you feel like you'll never be good enough. Sometimes there isn't much difference between a church and a cult.
This was such an interesting talk, and I love how this couple seems really concerned to make this work and not hurt the othee
I left the church years ago. There was always a struggle on how to run things and how to spend money. After awhile, I found that the problems continued to repeat itself and people continued to bicker. My family doesn't have a church, but we continue our faith and it's soo much more peaceful.
I wish he’d have got them to go in to specifics on what beliefs they differ on cause some may be damaging their kids and at that point it’s not “having moral superiority”, it’s not wanting your kids to be damaged but they never said what they disagreed about so we’ll never know
I’m ex Mormon and I feel like I have a pretty good idea of what the dad said when he said he was worried about the harmful doctrines. It’s the same reason my husband left too - when you realize how damaging some of the doctrine is, you’ll pull your kids out so fast. They tell you you have to work out your own salvation - they have so many commandments you have to keep to get to heaven. They talk about Jesus’ sacrifice but since most of the emphasis is on that you can earn your way to heaven, Jesus doesn’t really matter. Since there are so many rules and commandments, you can’t keep them all because you’re human. The church doesn’t acknowledge that truth. the church believes you can make yourself righteous, so when you break a rule or commandment, there’s sooooo much shame. The shame is crippling - it’s crushing. It’s what keeps people in sin. And when you think you’re doing good at keeping the rules, you get super prideful. It’s a satanic church because shame comes from Satan, not God. But they think you need to feel shame - it’s a huge part of “the repentence process”. You can’t feel God’s love in that church. Also you can’t have a personal walk with God in that church because if any leader (bishop, stake president, general authority, “apostle”, “prophet”) receives a revelation for you, you have to abandon what you thought God wants you to do and do what they say in order to be righteous before God. Brainwashing galore.
Your husband is smart. A lot of terrible people attend church . I left the church too. I don’t subscribe to organized religion now. It’s a BUSINESS. Just go without him.
Not all church people are bad but I knew a lot that were … they are brainwashed , messy and don’t think for themselves.
Then there are some that absolutely make you feel like family but I just don’t subscribe to the ideas
He doesn't have the right to try to push his wife to leave the Church. He doesn't have the right to look down on his wife. Faith is very individual. He is confused and so he is taking out his crisis of faith on everyone around him.
@@kellharris2491 he does not sound confused at all. I am mormon and did the deep dive study into the church as well and learned that many many claims we were taught regarding the origin of the church and it's founder (Joseph Smith) were simply not true. It is not even up for debate that many things Joseph Claimed are verifiable falsehoods. So it is not a "you can believe what you want and I'll believe what I want" situation. It is a, "you have to let me believe a provable lie because I am uncomfortable with change in my social club" situation.
My wife and I are going through the same thing and she simply wants to not think about it. At first she wanted me to speak with higher up church authorities so they can "set me straight" and her jaw was on the ground when they were stuttering and stammering and NOT denying the information and documents I was presenting that proves the church has misrepresented it's history. Supposedly some of the most knowledgeable leaders in our area went toe to toe with me and had circles ran around them regarding the church history. So many times I caught them in deception because they were not aware that I had read documents that most members are not even aware exist. Once they knew that I was aware of those documents, then they had to admit that xy or z church leader did in fact say this or that publicly.
Anyway, even after my wife witnessed church leaders lie and deceive in front of her eyes, she still wants us to keep going to church because this is our community. All of her friends and most of my kids friends are members. It is a big ask from her though because if you are active members, you basically have to pretend to believe or else you are treated as a second class citizen in the organization (which is where I am at because I am open about what I know) .
@@kellharris2491
She is not in The Church, she is in "a church".
You are also confused. Excuses will not get you far. The LDS is not a church according to the true Bible, is not a Christian organization.
LOVED this one!
I'm LDS and its the only place i found respite in the darkest times of my life and I have had insane visitations from the other side of the veil. Everyone's relationship with God is personal. :)
Thanks for handling this so well. I am in this situation, just I am the one that stayed. This is rough...but I am determined to make it work. Totally can see the moral high ground he mentions for both of us and also agree that this is America today. Religion is fading and separating people and couples with it. Good luck to the two who called in. It is up to them if they will stick it out.
Roman Catholic Church ⛪️
I jist so admire the respectful conversations they are having. They both care about the impact they have, they explain things as if they truly listen to their spouse and hesr them out. The ability to hold space for the other while still having opinions and perspective. Such a healthy example of communication!
I used to be a LDS member. Left many years ago. I was raised in it. I disagree with this woman saying if you take away the history and just do the doctrine… if you do that you aren’t left with anything you’re just left with a whole lot of brainwashing. This is how I felt about the LDS religion now and I am no longer comfortable there. This is my feelings and a lot of ex LDS people feel. It’s hard to break away from it. My sister and I are this only ones who have done it. My family hates it. The feelings that husband says is exactly how I felt in the beginning too before I truly started a relationship with God. ❤
I was raised LDS also and was a true believer. After my kids were born with health issues and I couldn't work anymore I was shocked to see a whole other side of the church that I'd never seen before. It was ugly. I doubled my efforts to be more spiritual thinking it was me. I was bad or being punished. It was then I realized that the church I loved wasn't even real. It was all a facade. If I wasn't paying all that money in tithing every month they had no use for me. It's a business and a cult.
@@grilledcheeseandsoup1652I'm... not entirely comprehending. What "side" of the church was ugly for you?
@@fructosecornsyrup5759from my own experience and from what I heard from others, it's the people. Many are two faced and do not care for you or your family. The church is suppose to be there to help us in our time of needs and to help others in their time of need. Unfortunately most churches are not like this. There's plenty of abuse that happens in the church.
The lds church is so harmful; it’s built on soooo much shame
May I ask where you grew up?
Along with talking to people who have left their faith, I would also talk to those that left and came back
What a great Dad. He's questioning what he got taught, or conditioned to learn, in case its not true, he is thinking of his kids. I love this!! More open talking like this call is what we all need!!
Agreed. I'm LDS, and it takes commitment! It would be hard to do it alone.
yikes
I very like this show for multiple of reasons but as a Canadian atheist this feel special wen folks fight to go to church's.
This is the first show I've seen where Dr Delony has both spouses on the line. 🙂
Same !!, so COOL !!!😲👏🏼👏🏼
I appreciate how respecting you are to the LDS religion. We get a lot of hate, but validating where people want to be is great
It's cool to see a couple working through something while maintaining love and respect
Less than 4 mins in, and I can tell hubby will wind up being an atheist eventually. If he's looking into the history of the Mormon church and finding out it's not real, he's going to look into all the other religions and come to the same conclusion.
The short history of the mormon church and the flimsy foundations it's set on don't reflect the Christian bible at all. If he genuinely searches, and puts effort into his studies, he'll find Jesus and he'll find the singular God of the bible.
Well it was written by a 13 year old John smith
The Bible is a valid historical document, no one has been able to disprove it.
@@shb8212 OK that gave me quite a chuckle.
@@om617yota8 OK, find a historian that denies the eye witness accounts recorded in the Bible. I'll wait. The VAST majority of even athiest theologians and historians are in agreement.
I just left the Mormon church and it is HARD. My last straw was when Pres Nelson said that God’s love was conditional! The church really does instill A LOT of shame, never measuring up and feelings of needing to be perfect to be loved.😭 Also, having sex out of marriage is compared to being chewed up gum. It’s awful and even makes those who have been sexually abused feel like they’re a piece of chewed up gum.
The Mormon church doesn’t believe in grace like mainstream Christians. I converted in my teens and was a member for decades. I’m SO glad I’m out! I do believe the church is absolutely harmful. My friends have said that they wanted to die before they turned 8 so they could go straight to the highest heaven and not make mistakes after they’re baptized. The ANXIETY attacks have been hard for me.
I'm former LDS as well. I remember thinking the logical thing to do was not make it to my 8'th birthday as well. You're the first person I've ever heard say others had the same thought. I don't think Dr. John really gets the cultiness of this church. I completely get the dad not wanting to subject his kids to this brainwashing.
Hes a false prophet!
@@KC-or1ic Sadly, it's hard to find real, authentic information on what exactly goes on within the Mormon church. I'd love to sit down with a Mormon (who probably wouldn't be completely honest) or former Mormon (who would probably tell the whole story) and learn more.
My best childhood friend was Mormon, and my family was Christian. Over the years, serious differences became apparent between us.
Literally part of the Gospel or the"Good News" is that God's love is not conditional. We are failures are that just wouldn't make sense. Last time I checked, God created logic yet God still loves Christians. Dive into the Bible, and start listening to RC Sproul or John Macarther. There's a really awesome book, Chosen by God that really explains salvation extremely well but is extremely contrary to human nature. Human nature is inherently evil so this is a good thing. Mormonism is also not Christianity. It is a works based faith and any works based faith is wrong and impossible. Seriously awesome job for leaving what is defined as a cult religion. You have your whole life ahead of you to actually be free and serve God in freedom rather than bondage to a man's religion. You should never feel like a chewed piece of gum. Fornication is objectively bad for mental health and there is a reason God considers it a sin. Sex is absolute meant for marriage only. Fornicating doesn't make you a worthless piece of gum to be through away either. He also saves those who have done it because he chooses us despite our past. Jesus literally saves the worst of us. I know me and I can verify this.
I found it so fitting that she said "I think he never drank the koolaid."
Yes. She should think about what that means a little more.
These parents just sound so dang *wholesome*. I just wish them the very best, and God bless them.
It is my personal belief that failing to challenge faith makes it blind and stale. I believe we, as human beings, were gifted with greater capacity for reason and using that gift is a reminder of the glory and power of the Lord.
John, please push the lid of your coffee on all the way, you're stressing me out lol.
Oh, he does at 8:40. Phew!
😅😅😅
If you’re Mormon, drinking coffee sends you to hell.
Idk about John’s advice on this one. Why does the guy have homework? Sounds like he knew he wanted to stop harming his children. She’s the one ok with continuing to harm their kids. It sounds like she’s the one who needs homework.
Confusing.
Correct. He seems to be the only one doing homework of any sort. The wife has, in her own words, “drank the koolaid”.
What I'm still confused about is whether, at the 3:13 mark, the wife is admitting that she makes her kids "pray for" their father and paints him as a "bad figure" (to use her words). Because it would be weird if John called out the husband's condescension and sense of superiority in thinking that his wife is "stupid", while not addressing the wife's condescension and sense of superiority in thinking of her husband as "fallen," and having her kids "pray" for him.
[ Edited to include a proper time stamp ]
@@marmar90000good catch.
John, Great advice in the homework section of the video.
As a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints this hurts my heart to see people who are struggling with their faith and i hope that they can come to to terms with this and strengthen their faith and testimony
This man is waking up and I love this for him. I believe in god but don’t subscribe to organized religion .. I get what hubby is saying 100% and this is an exciting journey
Except he doesn't want his wife to go to church when she wants to go.
@@kellharris2491 Nope, the wife wants and the kids to go.
I’m happy Brandon is opening his eyes to the truth. I hope soon his wife will start to question the same things and want to walk away from LDS as well.
The husband doesn't want to go and that's fine but he is trying to force his wife not to go. That's not right. His wife likes the Church and wants to stay.
Life isn’t as black and white as the church makes it and that can feel scary without the parameters they live by
Ive had numerous childhood friends and a bunch of my mormon missionary friends go through this and it has always ended in divorce. I respect them For trying to work it out. I was lucky that my wife never bought in, so when i took my concerns of the mormon church to her and said i lost my belief, she expressed she was only in for me. (Though we still have our issues) pur marriage improved significantly
Good for him.
I left and i tried to keep going and couldn't because it is super toxic. Especially for girls we have 3.
This makes sense what John said. The church community is so nice but I don’t buy any of the rest of it lol so I stopped going.. but the feeling when you walk in is amazing/the husband is waking up and I love this for him
It's called a PIMO member - Physically In, Mentally Out. They love the friendships and community, but are removed from the doctrine.
You can’t rush spirituality. He can’t make himself believe if he doesn’t and you can’t do that for him either. And if y’all not on the same page on religion, it’s only gonna create issues in the family in general. Just like being on the same page with money.
Covid gave a lot of us who were raised very religious the opportunity to step back and really decided if the religion we were raised with is truely what be believe.
Well she said her and her husband all went on missions so they went through that weird ritual in the SLC Utah temple. Awkward.
There’s a weird ritual in the SLC temple for missionaries? Huh, must have missed that one when I went. Oh well.
@@quarterlimit5838 you need to learn the signs to get your garments
I think you mean the temple endowment ceremony. There's a few weird rituals in there but they were even weirder and more disturbing back in the day from what I hear.
Keep searching brother! I pray God leads you to the church that Christ started
Omgizzy!!!
Now you are even way more AWESOME!! Love the t-shirt and absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE Social Distortion!!!!
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, but really if you want to believe anything, I can tell you that you actually need to think about it and decide if it's true long before the crisis comes. I've had a very exciting life (I say "exciting," but I mean crazy), and I didn't struggle with my faith because I already knew what I believed.
I wish this brother luck and hopefully he can quickly find what he believes in!
LDS here, also. I have not experienced many of what is in the comment. While I love the church, I have a brain. We are humans....we make mistakes. We need to stop looking for perfect people, and when we screw up, we say, seeeee....! Not telling folks to go out and commit crimes....
I think this couple sounds remarkable mentally and emotionally healthy and are navigating this issue really well. What a strong couple. I do though struggle to understand how Dr. John’s theologian friend can continue to attend church while being an atheist. Does he keep it a secret? Does he just keep his mouth shut during conversations at church? Isn’t that the definition of hypocrisy?
Is that that weird? Plenty of people have mixed faith spouses
I think the Covid break has caused many to reassess their core belief system. As a PK, I sometimes feel completely "churched out." Clearly, I can worship God at home with my family. However, it's harder to actually serve God at home. I have to remind myself why the church is so valuable--the encouragement, community cohesiveness, and culture. The prayers, the fortifying of faith through teaching, the music--all important! Therefore, even though I no longer go every time the doors are open, I do show up. Sometimes others are encouraged by my presence, and thus I do the work of Christ in love.
I'm LDS and I absolutely love how John handled this respectfully on both sides. Especially about not depersonalization of faith. This is exactly the mindset I want to be in if I end up in an interfaith marriage
The history of humans isn’t perfect. It’s the same for our church. She’s so brave to come on here with her concerns.
Exactly. Like John said, "Every organization has 'history'." The reason is because they are all run by humans and humans are not perfect. When Jesus returns and rules as King, then the church will be perfect as it will be run by a perfect being.
@@Jozzie1987 Not all religions were created by a con man though. Jesus wouldn’t have agreed with the sins of Joseph Smith, and therefore it’s unlikely he would have been a true prophet.
@@murderofcrows7738 have you read the Bible? Those prophets were pretty human. Sins, brokenness, EVEN polygamy?! Why did God choose them? The nerve…
@@aladyknight Yes, even Judas was chosen as an Apostle, BUT once he betrayed Jesus, he was no longer worthy and lost his position and his life. Joseph Smith's story (I have spent the last several years studying the original journals, church publications, court cases, etc of the origin of the LDS church. I grew up in the church, served a mission, served in many leadership callings, and am still active) is sadly NOT what we grew up being taught. Joseph and his family were basically gypsy type swindlers before Joseph came up with the story of the first vision or book of mormon. Joseph, his entire life, was a well known liar. He lied to Emma about marrying other women behind her back. He publicly lied about many things, but especially regarding polygamy. He changed many "revelations" he received in 1835 and then punished David Whitmer and others who called him out on it. He punished Oliver Cowdery for trying to make public that Emma caught Joseph in a sexual encounter with their teenage maid, Fanny Alger. He himself claimed that no man has done more save Jesus Himself.
When you look at the totality of Josephs life, including his own changing/evolving claims of Devine calling from God, it is clear that he was not representing God. Every decision he made, every "revelation" he received (then altered), every step of the way during the churchs development, he was benefiting financially, sexually, status wise, and regarding power/influence.
It breaks my heart to say this, but it is true. And again, I spent hundreds and hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars purchasing a library of church publications (many rare and early documents) with the intent of solidifying the truth claims of the church, only for it to prove otherwise. And yes, President Nelson and current church leaders have known more or less these findings.
I thought your church was based on divine revelation, was that a lie or did god get it wrong and isn't actually a perfect being?
Having been a child in the same situation where my dad was a liberal hippie and my mom was a conservative Mormon the best advice I can give for the dad is just to be a good example of what you want your life to be like so if you go taking a baseball game on Sunday, let her take the kids to church and then you just tell them what an awesome day you had. Enjoy your coffee enjoy going to the beach on Sundays. Don’t rub it in anybody’s faces, But I think for me I just felt super super torn emotionally between my mom and my dad and trying to make both of them happy and it ended up driving a huge wedge between me and my dad so the best advice I can give for the father in this situation is to just live your life and your children will eventually come around. I did not leave the Mormon church until I was 37 but I’ve never been happier and it’s because my dad took the backseat and live his life and was just a good example of how he can be happy outside the church.
reading is good. truth will set you free.
As a very intense atheist who was raised in religion, these are such great parents. Kudos to them for trying so hard before they indoctrinate their kids. Even if it’s teen kids this is so huge!!
There is no such thing as an Atheist, even less "intense atheist".
You call yourself an "intense atheist" simply because you were raised in religion and unfortunately religiosity ruins people to the point of abuse and people create a deep hurt over it and then as a defense mechanism and excuse you begin to accuse and repulse everything else that has any connection to God, you become a militant for atheism and is downhill from there.
You were never a child of God, you have never experienced true Christianity, you have never understood mercy, grace and forgiveness so please do yourself a favor stop before its too late.
@oterosocram25 no hate like christian love
@@Blue.velvet.0124no hate like worldly love
@queenoko719 We aren't justifying abusing cos of jesus or god, or he told me to. So I think there's a difference.
@@Blue.velvet.0124 no the world says love is love and to respect this and respect that, an illusion of unconditional love. but the moment someone has beliefs that don't align with yours, you cancel deplatform and hate them. yes there is no hate like worldly love.
Good for the husband!
As an ex mormon I feel bad for her and her children
She feels bad for us.
She'll be accepted into the highest kingdom, and we won't. 😢
Thank you for sharing this! What an important topic to discuss.
I think we can all relate to this.
As someone who was forced to go to church as a youngster (catholic btw).
It was my very first negative introduction to church. I have never enjoyed it, got sick of priests or other people from church saying, "It's all part of God's plan" as the answer to everything.
Honestly, to this day, I think it's a huge waste of time.
My husband was raised LDS and is now an atheist. After hearing his story of molestation and all the abuse. I can totally understand.
I think children need to be left out of adult matters and that includes church.
When they grow up and are able to think for themselves, they can choose or not choose religion.
Kids don't typically want to eat vegetables. Should they not eat vegetables until they are adults if they choose to?
Pause, don't freak out. I'm not attacking you.
If you are already sure there is nothing but matter and forces, I am not going to convince you otherwise. And my methaphor will instantly seem invalid. I also hate religious clickbait phrases just like you do, and I try to never say them to children or people with different beliefs than I have.
But if there is a knowable God that humans can find that brings human flourishing - parenting MUST account for pointing children to that even if culture opposes it.
A lot of athiests worship science, and some worship their own feelings or opinions. Not sure which camp you are in, but I am not offended if you follow either path.
But just look at social media, it is easy to see judgement and criticism still rule the day absent from theism. I strive not to judge atheist parents who mean well, so I do wish to see that reciprocated by the atheist community. Some people in 2022 scream that they are tolerant. Other people actually are tolerant.
She's willing to let her kids take their own journey, but not her husband. What exactly does she want to model for them?
3 minutes in - Oh boy, this is going to be interesting.
Basically he’s decided it’s a cult and wants to leave. She doesn’t. He knows if he leaves the teachers will bad talk him and try to turn his kids against him, probably because he’s seen it happen. I’m not saying he is correct or not but it seems he believes there is a concern for his relationship with the family if they still go.
It doesn’t seem like this matter is addressed. But then again everyone seemed so wishy washy and vague I might have missed it.
Nailed it
💯 true; this coming from someone who left the Mormon church in 2017.
💯! Mormon for 43 years, I was shunned and dehumanized for leaving. I just have to trust my kids to see through all of the negativity.
Yep totally lrleft my childhood church. Just cant believe in that.
😂 That's not a compromise! That's chaos.
My wife was Mormon I was Christian in high school. By the time we got married she had left the church and became Christian as well. I’m really praying that this whole family comes to know the Lord 🙏
Mormons are christian. But the difference is that it's a cult.
@@curiouslights7111 Mormons believe in a works based faith and don't believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven. They believe that they have to live by the law in scripture and of their own Bible and not by the grace Jesus paid on the cross. So that discounts Mormonism from being Christianity right from the get-go. But you're not wrong about it being a cult. My wife and my brother-in-law who has also left Mormonism and came to know Jesus experienced a lot of dark cult type behavior and mind control while being in the church.
Mormons are Christians, but I think I know what you mean.
Mormons are Christian. As are Catholics.
You do know Mormons are Christians right? The Church is called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints.