#33: The Birmingham Folios PREDATE ISLAM, MUHAMMAD, & THE QURAN!
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- čas přidán 18. 06. 2023
- On July 22nd, 2015, the BBC and other news outlets led with a story claiming that scholars at Birmingham University in England had found and dated what could possibly be the oldest, if not the original extant Qur'an in existence, and the Muslims all over the world were ecstatic, for finally science had proved categorically that the Qur'an was from the mid-7th century, and even possibly form Muhammad, because who can question science.
Dr. David Thomas, the curator for the Birmingham University library where this Qur'anic manuscript was housed believing that his Qur'an actually dated back to Muhammad’s lifetime was quoted as saying:
“The writer of this manuscript could well have known the Prophet Muhammad. He would have seen him probably, he would maybe have heard him preach. He may have known him personally - and that really is quite a thought to conjure with."
And why did he say this, because the carbon dating from the laboratory in Oxford had just dated these two folios from 568 AD - 645 AD. Muhammad lived from 570 AD - 632 AD, so these folios would have been written while Muhammad was living, making them the earliest Qur'anic material anywhere in the world.
If this was true, it would be a huge win for Islam, because up till now all of the earliest Qur'anic manuscripts have been dated from the 8th - 10th centuries, which is just too late to be of any worth historically.
But, while the carbon dates may be accurate, is the text, or rather excerpts within these two folios actually Muhammad’s teachings, or even remotely from Muhammad himself? That is a question no one has bothered to ask...until now...
To begin with, in reality, a Qur'an was not found. What we have are simply 2 pages (front and back) from a possible larger manuscript; in fact, a mere 33 verses.
So, we are only looking at 33 verses, out of a possible 6,236 verses which are in the Qur’an.
Yet, they come from 3 Surahs, 18, 19, and 20 which have a total of 343 verses; so 33 verses out of total of 343 verses makes only 10% of those Surahs.
It’s clear that this is not a full Qur’an at all, so why do Muslims and others keep saying that it is?
What's more, when you look at these 33 verses, they have to do with 3 stories which are all borrowed from earlier Christian and Jewish sources...note:
Surah 18:17-31 is the story of the 7 sleepers of Ephesus, first written about by the Syrian Bishop Jacob of Sarug in 512 AD, which is almost 60 years before Muhammad was born, and a good 100 years before the Qur'an was even revealed.
Surah 19:91-98 is an account borrowed from the Proto-Evangelium of James, first compiled in 145 AD, and then repeated in the Pseudo Gospel of Matthew in 600 AD. So the account predates the Qur'an by over 400 years.
Surah 20:1-40 is part of the story of Moses, taken from the Old Testament, and first written in 1400
BC, a good 2,000 years before the Qur'an was ever compiled.
So, these 3 stories not only predate Islam, they predate Muhammad, and certainly predate the Qur'an as well!
There are other problems with these 2 folios:
•The Ink has not been dated, so that 568-645 AD only tell us when the animal died, but not when these stories were written.
•The scholar Fedeli says this: “The person in charge of writing this manuscript was copying the text from an exemplar, and laid out and executed a rather well-proportioned relationship between letter blocks and empty spaces…the regular and coherent presence of a blank line between two Suras suggests a sign of a later practice, since this was introduced and established by al-Hajjaj between 703 and 705 AD” (Fedeli 2015:182-183)
•Another scholar, Francois Deroche dates these folios to the early eighth century, saying that it “clearly bears the marks of a high level of sophistication in writing that one would associate with production at the Imperial chancery of Abd al-Malik” (Deroche 2014:69)
•If the dates are correct, then the classical account (652 AD) is wrong as these folios predate it by 7 years!
This suggests that the 3 stories in the 2 folios were simply borrowed from Jewish and Christian accounts, usually made up of simple stories, all written in Arabic, and all earlier than the Qur’an.
CONCLUSION: The 33 verses found in the 2 Birmingham folios, consequently, are nothing more than examples of pre-Islamic, pre-Muhammad, pre-Uthmanic, and pre-Qur’anic borrowings which were then compiled into the Qur'an sometime in the 8th - 9th centuries and are now found in Surahs 18-20?
© Pfander Centre for Apologetics - US, June 20, 2023
(80,200) Music: "Feeling the Caribbean Sun" by Horst Hoffman, from filmmusic-io - Zábava
Compliments on including the discussion in the description box. It is an invaluable complement to the video and can clarify points for all viewers and especially the worldwide audience. Kudos.
Calling the BBC the "news" is like calling the Birmingham Folio a Quran.
Jay Smith is a source of knowledge?🥴🤣
@@alonzoharris9049
And, of what knowledge exactly, is the quran a source?
😜👍
Istighfar (Astaghfirullah) is the road to happiness and relief. Start chanting it whenever you are distressed, and it will, insha Allah, lift you out of your anxiety, place you in a tranquil position
@@IslamicSchool-at-Al-HudaMosque Quran is false.
Ah yes! I was waiting for an episode about the Birmingham folios. Let's watch this while I enjoy my koffie 🙂
This still doesn't prove that the Quran was revealed by Allah.
Because it was not!
So allah only knows Arabic? Can’t they find a smarter god?
Istighfar (Astaghfirullah) is the road to happiness and relief. Start chanting it whenever you are distressed, and it will, insha Allah, lift you out of your anxiety, place you in a tranquil position .
@@IslamicSchool-at-Al-HudaMosque well, I started a chantin' just like parwati suggested and was told to wait till the 3rd part of the evenin' when Allah comes down to the lowest heaven so he can hear better.
so these all science in the quran what are from 1400 years ago from a prophet that can not read or even write , what materials some planets have, the sirius star. The sky plays an essential role in protecting the earth. The sky protects the earth from the sun's deadly rays. ; Expansion of the universe ; The roots of the mountains are like pegs which stabilise the earth (pegs = people use them to fix tents to the ground), the whole mathematic wonder in the quran and and and and the list is sooooo big that i can write these for days. y'all not even close to say its happened by accident. , all of that are just discovered in our time. never before and only in the Qur'an. but believe what you want. i see that you never looked in one page Qur'an. its ok but you are not even one percent qualified to express your opinion . this is 1000% from god no matter what you say. you have enough proof. just use your brain.
I want the Christian hymns before they were corrupted by the Quaran
I don't think they are missing. They are more than known, Gunter Lulling re-discovered what was known to the Aramaic Christians I believe
There are many syrian ancient payers, hymns,
St. Epherem
@@ftk-forthekingdomministrie7439 St. Isaac the syrian, St. Ephrem the Syrian, St John of Damascus....there are also from assyrian, nestorian christians
@@con_boy
Gunter Luling?🥴🤣
Which scholar claims this?
Which scholar doesn’t consider this to be a Quranic manuscript?
Which scholar denies this being a Quranic manuscript?
Jay Smith is just making things up.
He claims to represent scholarship.🥴🤣
"I know how female mammals make breast milk! I'm a biological expert!"
- Alonzo Harris
@mysotiras 018
The Birmingham Folios belongs to a COMPLETED QURAN with MORE PAGES - ALL from the 7th Century and this has been proven scientifically.
The Birmingham manuscript and the rest of that Quran is in museums all over the world.
Bibliothèque Nationale de France in Paris, now bound with the Codex Parisino-petropolitanus,
Total number of folios are 98 = 56 (Arabe 328a, Bibliothèque Nationale, Paris)
+ 14 (Arabe 328b, Bibliothèque Nationale, Paris)
+ 26 (Marcel 18/1, National Library of Russia, St. Petersburg)
+ 1 (Vaticani Arabi 1605, Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana, Vatican City)
+ 1 (KFQ60, Nasser D. Khalili Collection of Islamic Art, London).
Originally this Qur'an would have contained around 210-220 folios. The extant folios contain about 46% of the text of the Qur'an
@mysotiras 018
Give me some names?🤥🤥🤥
Which scholar doesn’t call this a Quranic manuscript? Give me a name.🫠
People who have scholarly source will tell you to google it.
You are an embarrassment.🤣
@@aabraham3989indeed. They took a fragments of that full Quran as a part of their collection and returned the whole Quran to the owner of that museum
If they came before 610 then Islam really is finished.
Implication : Islam had original source texts before Muhammad, in Christianity.
@@kevinjanghj🤦🏻♂️
Yr 568 to 645 - would have been awesome if it was dated 200 yrs before Muhammad
@@godisgreat1786
It can’t be dated before the prophet. Nobody makes this claim.
You don’t even know how carbon dating works.
Which scholar claims you can pick a random year from the range? 🫠
@@alonzoharris9049 - you the cats whiskers - u the messiah - I bow to you - you the man 👍🏻
Jayji, aapki discussions din ba din aur jyada dilchasp hoti ja rahi hain 😊😊
how can lies last that long except it is started by satan,anti Christ, the exact antithesis of the Bible.Many parts are copied fr.the Bible,Arabian fables n other sources.
Istighfar (Astaghfirullah) is the road to happiness and relief. Start chanting it whenever you are distressed, and it will, insha Allah, lift you out of your anxiety, place you in a tranquil position
The Birmingham folios look more like a "christian" lectionary in arabic than a Quran
It's not the quran, !!!!
It's more likely to be used by some Arab Christian groups than Islam.
It’s a Quranic manuscript.
Do you have an academic source that it’s not a Quranic manuscript?
@@alonzoharris9049 Where in the folio is explicitly islamic teachings? Seven sleepers? Moses?
The biblical manuscripts are not biblical manuscripts?
The fragments of biblical manuscripts are not the bible?
That’s basically your argument.
Many things in the bible can be found in earlier sources.
We can make the same silly argument for biblical manuscripts.
Non Muslim scholars don’t classify these manuscripts based on religion. They are simply Quran. They can be traced back in computing word for word.
Christians don’t even know the basics. Because you follow propagandists like Jay Smith.
Apply your criteria to the NT.
These are only manuscripts not a book , incomplete. Copied from the Bible
Source: trust me bro 😎
Do some basic search first 🤡. Do u even know what is manuscript?? Manuscript can be also in one book. Manuscript are being used to define old texts. In fact,the whole Quran was taken by Birmingham from Turkey Museum. Turkey has all the Quran from 7th century. Birmingham took one of the Quran from there to be carbon tested. They carbon dated on whole Quran but they presented and kept a fragments of it clearly mentioned by them on their official sites lol
Regarding your last episode, Jay, there was a comment saying that the lower text on the Sanaa palimpsest, as revealed via infrared, suggested that the name Mohammed was either not existing in the earlier version, or that they were originally identifiably just adjectives. This would be a good issue to see some exploration given, it would perhaps indicate a move to try and glorify the narrator of the Quran as a prophet, whereas before he was a servant, a plain messenger introducing information about Allah ??
The reason for the loud music at the end was to drown out Al-fadi when he inwardly laughed with a Big Smile, when Jay said ''hatun of only 5ft 2inches exposed the different readings of the Quran''😅🤣😂
Has anybody got the full translation of the Birmingham Folio?
Who put the music in the end over the guy speaking? 😅
Many thanks to you two gentlemen for shedding some light on the subject.
Hi Jay,
I have seen that you stated that there is a vowel problem in Quran as the marks (dots and dashes) can change the meaning of the sentence. How then in Hebrew OT which also uses vowel marks in text impervious to this issue. Hebrew OT dint had vowel markings in them too they were added later.
Interesting observation. Judaic text didn't add "Niqqud" to their text until the 8th Century CE as well.
Why is there piano music covering the last part of this video?
Al fadi could not believe what Jay said; '' will destroy the preservation of the QURAN by one small wo-man of 5f 2inch and Al-fadi instinctively can't help laughing inside and said something which you are not supposed to hear because of the load music.
Can someone explain the apparent discrepancy between "33 ayahs/verses" and the 62 ayahs/verses in the ranges 'Surah 18:17-31, 19:91-98 and 20:1-40'? Are there ayahs/verses missing within those ranges? I can't read Arabic, so cannot tell.
Where did you get that?
Read the transliteration of the Arabic and you will see NOTHING has been omitted.
@@aaabrams1889
Really? Why were tons of 1924 Cairo version books dumped into the Nile?
To feed fish and crocs?
In fact, they dumped the whole version 'cos it was corrupted
And its proving that your book could be corrupted.
Is there a video covering BL AD 14461, the fragment on Arab conquest? It's dated 636 AD and appears to be the earliest mention of Muhammad?
33 verses ... same as the number of devils that came down to mount hermon.
Your preachers are LYING.Its 60 verses. I wonder why they used magick number 33 in their video.
@@keksi6844
Well, technically, the chapters and verses were added later, they are not part of the canon.
Let him keep the full 60 verses. Now he is a profit just like momo and he added to the koran
Istighfar (Astaghfirullah) is the road to happiness and relief. Start chanting it whenever you are distressed, and it will, insha Allah, lift you out of your anxiety, place you in a tranquil position
@@IslamicSchool-at-Al-HudaMosque Jesus is my road to happiness and joy. Alohas the road to hell. Wake up before you find yourself there.
Dr Jay, how can I contact him on social media?
Al Bukhari, a Muslim scholar of the 9th-10th century, and the most authoritative of the Muslim tradition compilers, writes that whenever Muhammad fell into one of his unpredictable trances his revelations were written on whatever was handy at the time. The leg or thigh bones of dead animals were used, as well as palm leaves, parchments, papers, skins, mats, stones, and bark.
But he still decided to burn parts of the manuscripts and an account of the goat eating a verse
That is known as channeling. One is possed by an evil spirit or dead person who never made it to heaven. Get it. That spirit intends to deceive and is not holy nor from God.
@@jeanalice4732
You mean Paul.🫠
@@alonzoharris9049
Actually Paul experienced an NDE...more than once. I believe him as I also had NDE in the past. You have no doubt when you come face to face with Almighty God. He doesn't act like Mohammeds so called Angel. No doubt a fallen one.
God is not a pervert or degenerate.
@@jeanalice4732
SATAN PAUL was possessed (2 Corinthians 12:7) tormented by SATAN from the start on that Damascus road. He said that jesus came to him as a BRIGHT LIGHT and later admitted that LUCIFER masquerades as a BRIGHT LIGHT.
no 33 chapter of Birmingham Folios missing and 33 sound letter are missing
Thank you for this but I must point out that music drowned out the rest of the video starting from 10:31. Was that intentional?
Thanks for the 'heads up', I've now excised that last section with the music.
@@pfanderfilmsIstighfar (Astaghfirullah) is the road to happiness and relief. Start chanting it whenever you are distressed, and it will, insha Allah, lift you out of your anxiety, place you in a tranquil position .
The reason for the loud music at the end was to drown out Al-fadi when he inwardly laughed with a Big Smile, when Jay said ''hatun of only 5ft 2inches exposed the different readings of the Quran''😅🤣😂
Another of the myths and legends of Islam.
Istighfar (Astaghfirullah) is the road to happiness and relief. Start chanting it whenever you are distressed, and it will, insha Allah, lift you out of your anxiety, place you in a tranquil position .
Even in the quran people around mohammed said that his quran are just tales of the ancients.
Quran 6:25 says:
Yusuf Ali translation:" Of them there are some who (pretend to) listen to thee; but We have thrown veils on their hearts, So they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they saw every one of the signs, not they will believe in them; in so much that when they come to thee, they (but) dispute with thee; the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients."
Istighfar (Astaghfirullah) is the road to happiness and relief. Start chanting it whenever you are distressed, and it will, insha Allah, lift you out of your anxiety, place you in a tranquil position .
The book shown in the picture when you showed a picture of David look to me to be extremely larger than 2 pages... and when you told the story of the one who discovered it, you said that they fell out and that it wasn't the Quran, but go on to refer to the pages that fell out is only 33 verses and not the complete Quran... so did it fall out the Quran or was it apart of the Quran, or was it claimed to be the full Quran, I'm lost... and then the picture at the top left in the screen with David Thomas looks the entirety. Are you trying to talk over people's head as if we're dumb.
The NT GOSPELS - Evidence of Author's & Dates Written
▪︎ Matthew - A tax collector who became Jesus' apostle and wrote about the life of Jesus as the Messiah for the Jewish community c. 60 AD.
▪︎ Mark - A Jew, and a companion of Peter and Paul, who wrote for both Jews and Gentiles about Christ's death and resurrection c. 60 AD.
▪︎ Luke - A Gentile doctor, and a companion of Peter and Paul who wrote for the Gentiles about Christ the saviour for humankind. c. 60 AD
▪︎ Luke - also wrote the Acts of the Apostles c. 60 AD.
▪︎ John - The 'beloved' apostle of Jesus, wrote in his later years about the Word who took on Flesh (John 1:1,14) c. 80-90 AD.
▪︎ John - also wrote 3 Letters and The Book of Revelations c. 80-90 AD.
▪︎ James - Jesus' cousin, wrote 1 letter c. 35 AD.
▪︎ Paul - wrote 13 letters c.49 - 65 AD.
▪︎ Jude - wrote 1 letter c. 65 AD.
▪︎ Peter - wrote 2 letters c. 67 AD.
▪︎ The author of The Letter to Hebrews is unknown c. 65 AD.
(Wikipedia).
▪︎ Jesus Christ's' ministry occurred between 27-30 A.D.
▪︎ Christianity began after the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus Christ when thousands of Jews became followers of 'The Way' (Jesus).
▪︎ The New Testament scholar, F.F. Bruce, gives strong historical evidence that the New Testament was completed by A.D. 100.
▪︎ Most writings of the New Testament were completed twenty to forty years before 100 AD. (Wikipedia).
▪︎ The apostles and their companions wrote the New Testament from their first-hand experiences with Jesus.
New Testament integrity is supported by historians, biblical and textual scholars, along with thousands of early codices, manuscripts and the Dead Sea Scrolls, proving the validity and preservation of the Gospels written between c. 35-90 A.D
(Eusebius, Church History 111. 39 .15; Irenaeus Against Heresies, 111.1)
INTERNAL Evidence:
▪︎ The internal evidence supports these early dates for several reasons. The first three Gospels prophesied the fall of the Jerusalem Temple which occurred in A.D. 70. However, the fulfillment is not mentioned. It is strange that these three Gospels predict this major event but do not record it happening. Why do they not mention such an important prophetic milestone? The most plausible explanation is that it had not yet occurred at the time Matthew, Mark, and Luke were written.
▪︎ In the book of Acts, the Temple plays a central role in the nation of Israel. Luke writes as if the Temple is an important part of Jewish life. He also ends Acts on a strange note: Paul living under house arrest.
It is strange that Luke does not record the death of his two chief characters, Peter and Paul. The most plausible reason for this is that Luke finished writing Acts before Peter and Paul's martyrdom in A.D. 64. A significant point to highlight is that the Gospel of Luke precedes Acts, further supporting the traditional dating of c. A.D. 60.
Most scholars agree Mark precedes Luke, making Mark's Gospel even earlier.
▪︎ Finally, the majority of New Testament scholars believe that Paul's epistles are written from A.D. 48-60. Paul's outline of the life of Jesus matches that of the Gospels.
1 Corinthians is one of the least disputed books regarding its dating and Pauline authorship.
In 1Corinthians chapter 15, Paul summarizes the gospel and reinforces the premise that this is the same gospel preached by the apostles.
Paul quotes from Luke's Gospel in 1 Timothy 5:18, showing us that Luke's Gospel was indeed completed in Paul's lifetime. This would move the time of the completion of Luke's Gospel along with Mark and Matthew.
This Internal Evidence presents a strong case for the early dating of the Gospels.
EXTERNAL Evidence - Gospel Dates:
▪︎ Were the Gospels written by eyewitnesses of the events, or were they not recorded until centuries later? As with the internal evidence, the external evidence also supports a first century date.
▪︎ Fortunately, New Testament scholars have an enormous amount of ancient manuscript evidence. The documentary evidence for the New Testament far surpasses any other work of its time, with over 5000 manuscripts, and many are dated within a few years of their authors' lives.
KEY documents:
▪︎ Chester Beatty Papyri contains most of the N.T. writings, and is dated around A.D. 250.
▪︎ The Bodmer Papyri contains most of John, and dates to A.D. 200.
▪︎ Rylands Papyri that was found in Egypt and contains large fragments of John, and dates to A.D. 130.
From this fragment we can conclude that John was completed well before A.D. 130 because, not only did the gospel have to be written, it had to be hand copied and make its way down from Greece to Egypt.
The majority of scholars agree that John is the last gospel written, so we can affirm its first century date along with the other three with greater assurance.
EARLY New Testament Papyrus Manuscripts:
▪︎ Dead Sea Scrolls, the Full Text of Isaiah 53 and a portion of every book, c. 250 BC.
▪︎ Old Testament Greek Septuagint c. 200 BC.
▪︎ P52 (John Rylands Fragment) - John 18:31-33; 37-38 c. 96 AD
▪︎ P90 (Oxyrhynchus) - John 18:36; 19:7 c. 96 AD
▪︎ P104 (Oxyrhynchus) - Matthew 21:34-37, 43, 45 c. 60-65 AD
▪︎ P46 (Chester Beatty Papyrus) - Romans 5:17-6; 5-14; 8:15-25; 27-35; 10:1-11, 22, 24-33, 35; 16:1-23; 25-27.
And Hebrews; 1 & 2; Corinthians; Ephesians; Galatians; Philippians; Colossians; 1 Thessalonians 1:1, 9-10; 2:1-3; 5:5-9, 23-28 c. 50’s-70’s AD
▪︎ P98 (IFAO) - Revelation 1:13; 2:1 c. 90 AD
▪︎ P66 (Bodmer Papyrus) - John 1:1-6,11; 6:35; 14:26; fragment of 14:29; 21:9 c. 70’s AD
▪︎ P67 Matthew 3:9, 15; 5:20-22; 25-28 c. 60-65 AD
▪︎ Evidence also comes from the Dead Sea Scrolls Cave 7.
Jose Callahan discovered a large fragment of the Gospel of Mark and dated it to have been written in A.D. 50. Also large fragments of Acts and other epistles and dated them to have been written slightly after A.D. 50.4
Another line of evidence is the writings of the church fathers.
▪︎ CLEMENT of Rome sent a letter to the Corinthian church in A.D. 95. in which he quoted from the Gospels and other portions of the N.T.
▪︎ IGNATIUS, Bishop of Antioch, wrote a letter before his martyrdom in Rome in A.D. 115, quoting all the Gospels and other N.T. letters.
▪︎ POLYCARP wrote to the Philippians in A.D. 120 and quoted from the Gospels and N.T. letters.
▪︎ JUSTIN MARTYR, A.D. 150 quotes John 3. Church fathers of the early second century were familiar with the apostle's writings and quoted them as inspired Scripture.
▪︎ Early dating is important for two reasons. The closer a historical record is to the date of the event, the more likely the record is accurate. Early dating allows for eyewitnesses to still be alive when the Gospels were circulating to attest to their accuracy.
The apostles often appeal to the witness of the hostile crowd, pointing to their knowledge of the facts as well (Acts 2:22, 26:26).
Also, the time is too short for legends to develop.
Historians agree it takes about two generations, or eighty years, for legendary accounts to establish themselves.
From the evidence, we can conclude the Gospels were indeed written by the authors they are attributed to.
THE First Fully Bound Bible Books/Codices
▪︎ Codex Vaticanus: Origin 1st century M/S - first Codex, 280 - 330 AD
▪︎ Codex Siniaticus: Origin 1st century M/S - first Codex, 300 - 350 AD
▪︎ Codex Alexandrius: Origin 1st century M/S - first Codex, 350 - 400 AD
▪︎ Codex Vulgate: Origin 1st century M/S - first Codex, 380 - 400 AD
JESUS and the Jews were multilingual
▪︎ "Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross.
It read: 'JESUS Of NAZARETH, THE KING Of THE JEWS'.
Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin and Greek" (John 19:19-20)
▪︎ The Gospels were written in Koine Greek being the World's language in the 1st century
The Hebrew Bible was translated into Greek (Septuagint) c.200 BC for the many Greek speaking Jews
It is well known that first-century Jerusalem was inhabited by Greek speaking Jews who were at least bilingual. And Jesus most likely was trilingual apart from the ability to read minds.
So the original Gospels were written in Koine Greek and sent throughout the World..
▪︎ Jewish culture was heavily influenced by Hellenistic culture, and Koine Greek was used not only for international communication but also as the first language of many Jews. This development was furthered by the fact that the largest Jewish community in the world lived in Ptolemaic Alexandria. (Wikipedia)
GOD Protects His Sacred Words:
▪︎ "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!
As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!" (Galatians 1:8-9).
▪︎ Jesus said, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away" (Matt 24:35).
▪︎ God protects His Word the Gospels and warns of antichrists..
▪︎ Christ's Good News of Salvation, His Birth, Crucifixion and Resurrection hasn't changed for 2000 years.
▪︎ The Gospels are evidenced by internal and external historical, archeological & literary facts.
▪︎ The Gospels are reliable and transparent with any variations transparently referenced in the footnotes.
▪︎ The Gospels have 1000 times more manuscripts than the most documented ancient literature by Greco-Roman historian, Suetonius.
▪︎ The Bible is the most comprehensive and reliable source about 1st century Jerusalem history and used by archaeologists for supporting research and evidence today..
Hallelujah..
Istighfar (Astaghfirullah) is the road to happiness and relief. Start chanting it whenever you are distressed, and it will, insha Allah, lift you out of your anxiety, place you in a tranquil position .
A X-xtians exposed all the lies above😅🤣😂
czcams.com/video/0FRxwjg_8bM/video.html
That's as long as a book
Can you confirm if those 33 versus match exactly as in the Quran's verses. ?
It does but here in the comments are all islamofobs.. who hate islam without knowing what islam is... They try to humiliate Islam.. but they are not aware that they are only humiliating themselves
They are word for word the same.
What’s with the loud music at the end? It drowned your voice out
Thank you, Dr.Jay Smith. You have used the correct word "Bastardizing" Anyone can check Google for this meaning "bastardizing".
Please use this word more often.
Great job. You have inspired me as a Christian to be a silent soldier of Christ. We do need people to inform the Muslims, that we love our enemies and pray for them.
Should have told that to the German Christians who murdered jews
How could it be "bastardizing" when history scholars (two being James Tabor and Bart Erman, neither are Muslim) say the understanding of Jesus by the Church of Jerusalem, the first community to accept Jesus as the Judaic Messiah, is more alive in Islam than it is in trinitarian Christianity? If anything, Trinitarian Christianity bastardized Judaism and true Monotheism.
Istighfar (Astaghfirullah) is the road to happiness and relief. Start chanting it whenever you are distressed, and it will, insha Allah, lift you out of your anxiety, place you in a tranquil position
@@IslamicSchool-at-Al-HudaMosque What you are telling me it's irrelevant. I never was a Muslim. And never will be one. You should leave Islam
czcams.com/video/3dX2KKz9BPc/video.html
People leaving islam
OK folks, I keep my opinion. A Qur'an older than Islam has been written, and it's a Christian text.
The Koran sure doesn’t look like that it came directly from heaven. If the writing was in a alien language, it would have been more believable.
🤦🏻♂️
We also don't have to be God to know that the Sleepers of Ephesus tale was a fiction.
@@collybever My issue with that account is what is the relevance of it?
@@hereweare9096that it is not from Lah
@@habasch285 Agree. Yet what do Muslims believe as to why it is in the Quran?
It looks like Jay Smith and Abdul Fadi become irritatingly jealous and infuriated when they could read something beautiful is written about Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). What they want is that all writers would always go by their line of thinking by always finding faults against Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), and that what they should write will always be about his bad sides.
If only they have a supernatural power to squeeze the intelligence of Michael H. Hart, Marijn Van Putten, Hythem Sidky and the likes of them, they would do so to make them write anything negative only about Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). What they lose sight of the fact is that they cannot suppress the intelligence of the writers and their independence to write. They cannot make them succumb to their evil motives. -08-24-23
Thanks, Dr. Al Fadi & Dr. Jay - see no diacritics - am I right in guessing that the Arabic also predates 6XX AD/his period?
Istighfar (Astaghfirullah) is the road to happiness and relief. Start chanting it whenever you are distressed, and it will, insha Allah, lift you out of your anxiety, place you in a tranquil position .
@@IslamicSchool-at-Al-HudaMosque really that is ur recommendation even after surahs 4;34 5:51 9:29 4:157 3:104 with instructions on how to persecute and deceive - Taqqiya - Muda'rat, Kitman, Tawriya, Taysir, Darura - Murana, Hiyal, Muta & nikkah. and how about surah 65:4 & rules of Shariat
Islam wants to prove itself the oldest religion by hook or by crook
Bcs Islam is the oldest u 🤡. We have the oldest Quran which is the oldest scripture in this world unlike other beliefs who does not even have 200 years old scriptures
Surah 19:91-98 does not contain the Protoevangelium of James. I don't want to use incorrect arguments in discussions with Muslims.
From where did the Bible come from, and to whom it was being sent to? Who was the sender, and who was the recipient? -09-14-23
What is the difference between Christianity and Islam? Christianity is living up to the examples that Christ set for His followers. Islam is living up to the examples that Mohammed set for his followers. Even though Christ and Mohammed lived over 600 years apart, Christ was not a Muslim who was trying to live up to the examples that Mohammed would set; and Mohammed was (by no means) a Christian living up to the examples of Christ. The two are diametrically opposed to each other in both their teachings and lifestyles.
*
Interestingly, Muslims gain fame (celebrity, notoriety) by linking Christ with Mohammed. Christians, on the other hand, find it appalling - horrifying, wicked, disgraceful, scandalous, and inhuman. To Christ be the glory forever and ever! Amen!
THE PROBLEM
with your understanding about Islam is that MOHAMMAD (saw) created Islam 😀
MOHAMMAD (saw) COMPLETED ISLAM
Islam is SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF THE CREATOR and all the prophets of God adhere to that making them all MUSLIM.
ISLAM STARTED WITH CREATION
where all that was created SUBMITTED TO GOD following all the laws (Natural laws). Then from Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, Thousands of Prophets (peace on them all) SUBMITTED TO GOD ALONE AND DIRECTLY without partners, persons (pagan trinity) and intercessors.
ALL THE PROPHETS
had the same religion with the same message of Pure Monotheism and ALL SUBMITTED TO GOD - that's the meaning of ISLAM.
Thank you so much for sharing.
This is very interesting. Nonetheless, are the words exactly the same than those of the current Qur'an? I know it's not perfectly preseved at all, but that'd cool to know.
@mysotiras 018 I guess all of them, but it'd be a curiosity if the text without the dots (I don't know its name 😅) is the same. My bet is that there would be no differences (of that kind) due to the little amount of verses.
@@juandiegoparales9379
These Evil missionaries Deceive gullible Xtians like you. They don't tell you the full story and points to QIRAT - READINGS - STYLES OF RECITATIONS of the Quran and say; '' THERE!! - That word in the verses is not the same as the other word'' making as if it's different Qurans.
They want to project their CORRUPTED bible make-up with the Quran and is clearly Jealous of the Perfect Preservation of the Quran.
EDUCATE YOURSELF
if you are truthful and you will see the truth as it is, instead of just following the evil missionaries' lies and deception.
@@juandiegoparales9379 The ancient quaranic texts are Rasm (skeleton text) without vocals and diacritical marks.
If you ignore the gaps (or fill them with vocals and diacritical marks you want) you get to ~95% preservation for the text.
But over 1400 years there have been 100s of variation, one of the most intereting is the lower text of the Sanaa-Pampliset, different arrangement and the only manucript that has the Bismillah* in the beginning of Sura 9 (*Bismillah is the formula "in the name of..." at the beginning of every Sura except Sura 9).
Afaik it is the only Manucript that has pictures.
@mysotiras 018
There are 1000 bibles.
@@juandiegoparales9379
It’s word for word the same.
You can’t find such thing for the bible.🫠
We need english translation of birmingham folios..
Is it written in real Arabic or Syrio-Aramaic? According to Luxenberg, folios this old should contain Syriac script, not Arabic. If Arabic, wouldn't this discredit some of the assertions that the quran was mainly written in Syriac (which you yourselves also promoted!)? I don't think you can have it both ways, although it is only a small part of the quran.
Jay Smith is contradicting himself each week.
The theory of Luxenberg is nonsense.
There's issues with the dating, too. Carbon dating establishes a most probable date and fits a distribution around it, which is the error on the probable date.
Essentially, they make assumptions about the amount of radioactive carbon the goat, deer etc ate.. They know how fast the carbon decays and measuring much there is left they extrapolate back to when they think the goat, deer etc was killed. But they have to make assumptions about the 'average' goat, deer etc., what and how much it ate, how long it lived, where it lived etc. It's these assumptions that provide the error. They'll estimate the 'average' but what about if it's not average?
Further, there's measurement accuracies on the actual measurement machines.
These 'random' errors are predictable and follow a predictable pattern, if 'random'. And there's little reason to believe they aren't.
So, the predicted date the goat died of 608AD, before Muhammad even received a revelation. As the error is 'random' that's the point there's a 50% chance it's earlier or later, due to all those errors.
In all, there's about a 60% chance it was written BEFORE Muhammad's revelations and about a 90% chance the goat died before Uthman wrote the Koran.
And Saudi scientists know this works against the Birmingham folio and now say the writing is late 7th-early 8th century.
It's not surprising if earliest mss are not full books, as many surahs circulated as individual scraps of writing. To find one or more does not vouch for any of the others not extant in a given ms.
Maybe this is an Uthman edited version, or an edited Uthman one.
Do you really want to know the truth - or just assume based on what you heard from these Evil missionaries?
Is there anything specific or unique to islam in it ?
Carbon dating was used on a sample from a living animal. The test said that it was 700 years old. So much for accuracy.
There is a problem with C-14 dating. That is the assumption that animals then and animals now have the same percentage of C14 in their bodies at the time of their death. This can never be verified with certainty. Plus, geophysical and climatic changes in a region can shift this percentage significantly. C-14 dating is okay when used to cross-verify historical records, not the other way round
Istighfar (Astaghfirullah) is the road to happiness and relief. Start chanting it whenever you are distressed, and it will, insha Allah, lift you out of your anxiety, place you in a tranquil position
@@IslamicSchool-at-Al-HudaMosque Chanting is not how you get to the true God who we should worship in spirit and in truth. Chanting is a known practice of worshipping demons.
Why would I want to be involved with your demonic moon god Al-Lah?
@@IslamicSchool-at-Al-HudaMosque Yeshua is the only path to Yehovah-God. Al-Lah is a fake moon god.
Al-Lah = Osiris-Lah = Krishna = Baal = Hubal = Satan
@@IslamicSchool-at-Al-HudaMosque When did Al-Lah speak to you? What did he say? What miracle did he do for you?
Did he or your dead Muhammad heal anyone when you asked them to?
Yeshua speaks to me every day and He still heals people. I have personally known Him for 40 years. We have a wonderful one-on-one relationship.
I ask you once again, for what reason would I want to know your demon?
And to buttress on the unreliability of carbon dating, The carcass of a Seal which died in the 70's was carbon dated, and the new data showed the age of the seal to be millions of year old.
Also rock dated from Mt St Helen eruption known only at most few hundred years kd came back
Carbon dated millions of years
Think this is the very beginning and original proto Koran text that was then added unto it Jewish Apocrapha and gnostic JW type unitarianism
How do you date manuscripts?
Since you claim to be an expert. Why don’t you tell us how do you date a manuscript?
@@davidchase1439
Which scholar makes your claim?
Istighfar (Astaghfirullah) is the road to happiness and relief. Start chanting it whenever you are distressed, and it will, insha Allah, lift you out of your anxiety, place you in a tranquil position
Where is the Original Bible ?
Can anyone memorized Bible than Quran ?( that memorized during prophet Muhammad to his companions and untill today)
Muslims usually say that Quran is memorized by millions of muslims and so it can't be corrupted. right?
Tell me why 1924 Cairo version qurans were dumped into the Nile?
*Wasn't the reason corruption?*
So what are the texts being compared on the "Muslim paradigm" as they are claiming carbon dating of consistent texts back to the 7th century? No specifics.
Read the Arabic of the Quran today and you will see it matches PERFECTLY with the 7th century folios.
@@aaabrams1889 I am not an Arabic scholar just an interested layman seeking clarification from both sides of debate so please nobody take my comments as well informed.
Issues: 1. So this is a tiny part of what ended up in a/the Koran and all translated from literature between 60 to 2000 years before? With the folios either being from documents being assembled to create a Koran as per this site OR a full one. But surely neither is proven and either side could be correct? 2. I was under the impression that in the standard Islamic narrative the Koran was supposed to originate from "Allah" via Gabriel to Mohammed not from Christians and Jews writing things down earlier and a scribe translating them into a composite book?! Unless of course the human Christian and Jewish sources all copied them directly from god and perfectly?! 3. I gather that this folio is in the old consonant only script and therefore cannot be the same as the "Hufs" version of the Koran because a full alphabet had not been developed for the dialect of Arabic at the time - so the HUFs version is far later and has to be different in that regard at least?!
@@andrewcole4843
In order to understand this topic, you should as least know the basics😀
You are fooling yourself by listening to these Evil missionaries, as they don't tell you the full story and feeds on gullible xtians to malign ISLAM>
Educate yourself and you will see how bias and ridiculous the Evil missionaries' claims are....they were answered with proof by Muslims and Educated Non-Muslims YEARS AGO but regurgitate the same crap for new gullible xtians.
1) THIS ''TINY PART'', the Birmingham folios were dated to the 7th century and Non-Muslim scholars say that it could even be in the lifetime of MOHAMMAD (saw) and if you compare that with the Quran today - IT'S THE SAME.
ALSO proving the Birmingham Folios belongs to a COMPLETED QURAN with MORE PAGES - ALL from the 7th Century and this has been proven scientifically.
The Birmingham manuscript and the rest of that Quran is in museums all over the world.
Bibliothèque Nationale de France in Paris, now bound with the Codex Parisino-petropolitanus,
Total number of folios are 98 = 56 (Arabe 328a, Bibliothèque Nationale, Paris)
+ 14 (Arabe 328b, Bibliothèque Nationale, Paris)
+ 26 (Marcel 18/1, National Library of Russia, St. Petersburg)
+ 1 (Vaticani Arabi 1605, Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana, Vatican City)
+ 1 (KFQ60, Nasser D. Khalili Collection of Islamic Art, London).
Originally this Qur'an would have contained around 210-220 folios. The extant folios contain about 46% of the text of the Qur'an.
2) The Islamic Narrative is the History, the Traditions/SUNNAH of Mohammad (saw) with his teachings and testimonies of his companions/disciples and DIFFERENT from the Quran. The Quran is solely from Allah and nothing from Mohammad (saw).
3) LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR - THERE IS ONLY ONE QURAN
and it was revealed in 7 Modes or Styles of Recitation (Ahruf). The Quran means RECITATION and the Muslims RECITE THE QURAN FROM MEMORY like a Recitation (HAFIZ) = knowing the entire Quran by heart.
To have the Quran in a written form is a bonus and this was done on EVERY occasion Mohammad (saw) received revelations. He used to summon his scribes and they wrote it down on various materials.
ARABIC IS A ANCIENT LANGUAGE
and all Semitic languages (Aramaic, Hebrew, etc.) have almost the same alphabet and written without vowels and obviously they could read what they wrote.
HAFS, WARSH OR ANY STYLE OF RECITATION
is the same as from the time of Mohammad (saw).
THE DIFFERENCES are Selected words - ONE WORD in certain verses WHILE THE REST OF THE TEXT IS ALL THE SAME (Rasm).
THIS ONE WORD in selected verses are Alternative words and is a MIRACLE OF THE QURAN as only in Quranic Arabic that ONE WORD has a similar sound with a DIFFERENT MEANING that compliment and/or enriches the context.
Also - in written in singular if the Reciter recites alone or in plural if the reciter recites to a crowd, etc.
HERE A MUSLIM COMPARE THE 7TH CENTURY
with the Quran today. czcams.com/video/sQMaK0TP-GI/video.html
Islam origins remain a mystery with it's holy book emerging before it's messenger
No mystery. Muhammad was illiterate so he never knew if the stories he heard were in the Bible or whether they were from apocryphal stories and pseudo-gospels circulating at the time in Arabia. His gullible followers wrote down what he recited believing his claims to be receiving material direct from Allah when even the local Meccans knew he was just repeating stuff he'd heard from others and called him 'All Ears'. There is a channel Useful Charts on the authorship of the Quran which concludes the Quran contains summaries of stories told to an illiterate person for him to repeat. 😁
Hey Dr. Jay can you please give Al Fadi the answer you want before you ask him a question.. thank you.
what would be useful is a picture to show doubting Muslims side by side picture of this and the Hafs with the different words used circled on the Hafs version. Then they have to either admit there are different Quran versions or the Birminham is not Quranic at all but then they have the story as being revealed 200+ years earlier
If this is just a random collection of pre-islamic Christian stories which were floating around, is it not a strange co-incidence that they are also found in consecutive canonic Surahs - 18, 19 and 20?
Cry louder 🤡. I can smell jealousy coming from the one who believing in a book that always been updating every year like a IPhone
I expect a lot of backlash for this but something has tickled my mind over the few weeks watching yourselves and Christian Prince to name 1 of many, excellent work may GOD bless you all for the work you do.
What would be left if you stripped out the fallacies of Mohammed line by line. I understand that would destroy verses sentence by sentence but some lines correlate the bible but the following line distorts it some way.
Would the text seem like an offer from a missionary with an offer of further enlightenment and his interaction with the jews and christians possible follow up missions to see results and possibilities.
Possibility of Mohammed stumbling across the messenger and turning confidence trickster, an idea that I see the matches when watching CP with the Arab scriptures on screen.
I know I will be hated but the words pop out while I watch and strikes me as odd in its configuration.
To get so excited, & then say, "No, these r written from Christian, Jewish sources... is such a buzz killer for them". BTW, that salsa music is fun
How I earnestly wish that there is now an ORIGINAL ARAMAIC GOSPEL because I am dying inside to read it. I hope there is a translation in English. It's hard to read it in its original form in Aramaic. I don't know that language. I think Aramaic is much harder to read than Arabic. I believe that this Gospel is a book of spiritual guidance from God. Unlike the 4 make-believe gospels, their contents are purely biographies of Prophet jESUs (pbuh) but with a huge hole in the accounts of his life covering the primetime of his age.
From what museum or library can we find the original ARAMAIC GOSPEL? Is there any original manuscript for it?
I am urging Jay Smith and his cohorts to produce that book as soon as possible so that Muslims and Christians alike will be enlightened. -06-28-23
Whats the point of finding something that wasn't meant for our time. Even if we found the original, the Quran supersedes them all. Remember that Allah sends prophets for people of that time, but Prophet Muhammad SAW was sent for all humanity. I don't think it would have made the difference. The only wake up call Jews and Christians will receive is when Prophet Isa comes.
Of course there isn't an Aramaic text. The Gospels were written in Greek.
AL QURAN IS NOT HUMAN MADE.
BUT MADE BY GOD ALLOH SWT.
IN THE BOSOM OF THE PROPHETS AND THE GUARDIANS THERE IS. THE. AL QURAN.
- KNOWLEDGE OF WORSHIP FOR SOLEMN, I HAVE . and
- KNOWLEDGE TO HEAVEN IS IN ME.
FROM JONI JONI SUPER HERO
FROM EAST JAVA
When you really don't want to give up drinking.
Istighfar (Astaghfirullah) is the road to happiness and relief. Start chanting it whenever you are distressed, and it will, insha Allah, lift you out of your anxiety, place you in a tranquil position ..
Talk about Quran 54:1, two verses directly lifted from pre muhMad poet Imru' al-Qais poetry.
HELLO!!!
This was a real event.
Surah 19:91-98 doesn't look like the Proto-Evangelium. I tried to compare them. To me it looks like islamic influence.
This is the Sura:
"That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious. For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son. Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to (Allah) Most Gracious as a servant. He does take an account of them (all), and hath numbered them (all) exactly. And everyone of them will come to Him singly on the Day of Judgment. On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, will (Allah) Most Gracious bestow love. So have We made the (Qur'an) easy in thine own tongue, that with it thou mayest give Glad Tidings to the righteous, and warnings to people given to contention.But how many (countless) generations before them have We destroyed? Canst thou find a single one of them (now) or hear (so much as) a whisper of them?
REST ASSURED THAT NO MUSLIM IS JUMPING UP AND DOWN BECAUSE THERE IS A MANUSCRIPT IN BIRMINGHAM.
WE GOT EVERYTHING WE WANT IN OUR HOLY BOOK QUR’AN. HOWEVER KEEP READING THE “NEWLY DISCOVERED” MANUSCRIPT MAY BE YOU’LL LEARN A THING OR TWO FROM YOUR OWN DISCOVER.
Everyone knows that the 7 sleepers story was plagiarized from Rip Van Winkle
@mysotiras 018 that's not true
@mysotiras 018
So, according to you, the 7 sleepers story is a myth?
This is what Jay admits;
Dr. David Thomas, the curator for the Birmingham University library where this Qur'anic manuscript was housed believing that his Qur'an actually dated back to Muhammad’s lifetime was quoted as saying:
“The writer of this manuscript could well have known the Prophet Muhammad. He would have seen him probably, he would maybe have heard him preach. He may have known him personally - and that really is quite a thought to conjure with."
And why did he say this, because the carbon dating from the laboratory in Oxford had just dated these two folios from 568 AD - 645 AD. Muhammad lived from 570 AD - 632 AD, so these folios would have been written while Muhammad was living, making them the earliest Qur'anic material anywhere in the world.
BUT then denial sets in because Jay is a hard-core ISLAMOPHOBE
Look at his excuses - ludicrous. 😅🤣😂
@@aabraham3989 were your parents closely related?
@@tbishop4961
MUST I SHOW YOU TONS OF;
* Incest, Filth, Porn, Pedophilia, Adultery, Rape, Myths, Absurdities, etc. etc. etc in your Corrupted bibles?
YOUR JEAL;OUSY OF THE QURAN AND ISLAM
makes you evil👹
Glad CIRA got rid of the intro and outro...
Even the latest date of the carbon dating of the Birmingham folios is before the Qur'an of Uthman. So according to the standard narrative it should have been burnt, if what the standard narrative tells us about Uthman were true.
Either way it shows that the narrative has serious errors in it.
Do you know how Carbon dating works?
So stop your idiocy and JEALOUSY!!!
@@aabraham3989 What jealousy. You believe in complete rubbish. Did you watch the video, at all? Everything in the Birmingham folios is NOT FROM ALLAH. It is all copied from earlier known sources. Tales of the ancestors. The people at the time when Muhammad was supposed to have lived, knew that it was false. And now EVERYONE knows that it is by completely human transmission.
@@oprophetisfake9482
YOU ARE JEALOUS
because of the Perfect Preservation of the Quran - THAT'S THE POINT!!!
THE QURAN
is a Recitation and upon Revelation is was WRITTEN DOWN AND COMMITED TO MEMORY - verse by verses, word by word - the Muslims RECITED the Quran like a Recitation. (HAFIZ)>
This Oral tradition - Hafiz - is from the time of MOHAMMAD (saw) till today with over 2 million Hafiz Muslims, knowing the Quran by Heart.
YOU MAY NOT BELIEVE IN THE CONTENT OF THE QURAN
but the proof of it's Perfect Preservation is scientifically proven from 7th century Mushafs (Quran) compared to the Quran today.
YOUR BIBLES ARE ALL CORRUPTED
The Earliest COPY is a piece of scrap the size of a credit card called P52😅from the 3rd century and the CONTENT of your Corrupted bibles have Filth, Porn, Incest, Pedophilia, Adultery, Rape, Myths, Absurdities, etc. etc. etc.
Your earlier claim was that Quran was not written in the times of Muhammad. Now u claim that these pages are from the Quran written during his time, but the stories from these pages are copied from the bible. What exactly is your claim then, as you change it everyday.
According to Jay Smith the LETTERS OF PAUL are just MERE TAFSEER of the Old Testament and “other scriptures” (?). Tafseer means interpretation. If the letters of Paul are just mere tafseer, why is it they become the main core of the New Testament which comprised 90 percent of it. These should be written in a separate book. In the Islamic standard, no single tafseer is included in the Holy Qur’an. Hence, the letters of Paul must be written in a separate book.
Jay Smith failed not elaborate as to what specific book or verse/s in the Old Testament that each letter is intended to for being a tafseer. He should have elaborated on the following letters of Paul:
LETTERS OF PAUL TO THE DIFFERENT CHURCHES:
1). Romans - tafseer of what is it intended for?
2). Hebrews - tafseer of what is it intended for?
3). Corinthians - tafseer of what is it intended for?
4). Galatians - tafseer of what is it intended for?
5). Colossians - tafseer of what is it intended for?
6). Philippians - tafseer of what is it intended for?
7). Ephesians - tafseer of what is it intended for?
8). Thessalonians - tafseer of what is it intended for?
LETTERS OF PAUL TO THE DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS:
1). Timothy - tafseer of what is it intended for?
2). Titus - tafseer of what is it intended for?
3). Philemon - tafseer of what is it intended for?
4). James - tafseer of what is it intended for?
5). John - tafseer of what is it intended for?
6). Jude - tafseer of what is it intended for?
7). Peter - tafseer of what is it intended for? -07-01-23
They were source material for the guys who gathered stories to put into the pre islamic Quran. The oldest qurans don't have all the suras that are now in the current qurans. As Islam evolved more stories and poems were added and then hate and threat suras were added by the evolving quran writers which makes it a islamic book now.
YOU look at Islam through PAGAN Xtian lenses and projects the same on Islam😅
@@aabraham3989 Quran is the most confusing book ever, that is why you need the Hadith and Tafsir for explenation and stil lMuslims don't agrre and they don't follow the Quran but the Interpretation of their scholars.
Like temporary marriage: Quran allows but Sunnis outlawed it.
@@slippingsnake
Don't let your stupidity of not understanding blame the Quran😀
Educate yourself and you will learn that the Quran is CLEAR - Unambiguous verses on the theology of Islam.
* Unambiguous verses - not open to more than one interpretation.
* and Ambiguous verses - open to more than one interpretation.
WHY? because the Quran is till the end of time...And what was Ambiguous becomes Unambiguous as time goes on.
The Quran is also a Hadith and Tafsir explaining itself.
Istighfar (Astaghfirullah) is the road to happiness and relief. Start chanting it whenever you are distressed, and it will, insha Allah, lift you out of your anxiety, place you in a tranquil position
@@slippingsnake ...
The Christian sects are quarreling with each other about the interpretation of the Bible.
Hello, Jay!!
Why Muslim scholars don't debate with you? Why don't they debunk your points you generally put forward?
This has been answered and debunked years ago...but Jay and his clown regurgitates the same crap over for new gullible Xtians
Istighfar (Astaghfirullah) is the road to happiness and relief. Start chanting it whenever you are distressed, and it will, insha Allah, lift you out of your anxiety, place you in a tranquil position .
They don’t need when we Muslims has already debunked his lies every day lol. If u do some basic search,u will find that they are liars. No wonder millions of Christians are converting to Islam. No wonder,experts,scientists and professors are converting to Islam
This wouls teally undermine tradional view of muhammed as author of muhammed as whoever compiled and translated entire koran cane much later in history
If this would not be real
...
Then this would be hilarious comedy !
...
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Genesis 14:13-24. Hebrew 7:1-28. Hebrew 11:8-10. Short story. Hebreo 4:12.
According to Jay Smith is that he believed that there is really ONE ORIGINAL GOSPEL. Since he cannot find it, he assumed that the gospel of John is already that book. But his is only mere assumption. He failed to make any clear evidence to show that his assumption is correct. Hence, he has to show manuscripts in Aramaic as evidence for his assumption that the gospel of John is the already real Gospel of Pophet jESUs (pbuh).
By his hasty assumption, he undoubtedly discarded the gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke into useless books which have no more meaning to the whole Christendom, and hence not fit to be used as the basis of the religiosity of the Christians. -06-29-23
Will the real Alonzo Harris, please stand up?
Will the real Alonzo Harris, Please stand up?
Im waiting for your 4 gods rhetoric..
Kiran we have tiday based upon foundation of a christuanity that was heretucal unirmtarianism of the region and time like JW of aramiac brought over into arabiac
The Quran itself refers to a book, al-kitaab. So I do believe that Muhammad did carry about a book, the proto-Quran otherwise it won't make sense for him to tall about a book
8:10 - But Twisting The Scriptures of Moses.
There is no evidence that they predate Quran.
What does the woman’s height have to do with her research ability?
It's a pop at Mohammed hijab...he is 6 foot 5 and defends Islam...
Dynamite comes in small packages and Hatun Tash faces off large Islamic bullies all the time. This is a term of endearment from Dr Jay [ see comment about Mohammed Hijab - now consider David vs Goliath and we know how that ended].
@@leecooper3852 I thought it was one of those usual “Isn’t it amazing that this tiny person can be so accomplished?” routines. When you are under five feet tall you hear it a lot, especially with reference to activities that have no connection with height. 🙄
@@janach1305 height is irrelevant, the apostle Saul was renamed Saul which means small.
@@leecooper3852 True, not everyone has the good fortune to be small, but tall people can have many fine characteristics which compensate for their failure to be short. 😏
Hello Al Fadi....
Could you please check out this new angle of things... That the Qur'an today was actually written on the onset of Arab coming into riches thus, the availability of the things we see in the Qur'an today, because it was not written as the Muslims claims
Where did you get your doctorate ?
You now deny the theory of radioactivity.
Why don't you get someone to read it to show that it is different?
This is from the quran of Rahman al yamamah Muhammed used to copy quran from him
COULD BOTH OF YOU TALK ABOUT MARIJN VAN PUTTEN.
HE SEEMS TO BE THE ODD ONE IN HIS VIEW.
My sugestion write scholarly journal and presented to real scholar whom studied extensively on manuscript, and debate with them. it'll be more academic rather, claiming the real scholar mistakes and blabbering it on youtube about your 'fictions' compiled by your Google search team 😅
-How does the Birmingham Folios compare with.... the Uthman's Quran?
-How does the Birmingham Folios compare with.... the Haf's Quran?
-How does the Birmingham Folios compare with.... the Warsh Quran?
-How does the Birmingham Folios compare with.... the Sana'a manuscript?
"compare with" = textual variant differences
Clearly, the Quran borrowed from works that already existed.
It's all the same as the Quran is today.
@@aaabrams1889
Just like the New Testament- there ARE textual variants in manuscripts and editions of the Quran.
@@---zc4qt
There is no warsh or hafs quran.
There is only one Quran which has multiple readings.
@@---zc4qt
YOU are looking at the Quran through Xtian lenses.😀
The Quran is NOTHING like your bibles.
THE QURAN IS IN A LEAGUE OF ITS OWN
Firstly, upon Revelation to Mohammad (saw), he immediately called his scribes to write down the Revelation - this was NEVER done for your bibles.
Secondly, those Revelations were committed to MEMORY, every word, letter and pronunciation (HAFIZ) and revised over 5 x a Day EVERYDAY in the Salats.
We don't see this with Judaism and Xtianity.
TEXUAL VARIANTS
in manuscripts of Judaism and Xtianity leads to editions and versions of the bibles - where you get a New Revised Edition, replacing the previous Version.
WE DON'T HAVE THIS WITH THE QURAN
The ''variant word'' which are in Selected Verses were ALSO REVELATION - actually Alternative Words to formulate a Style of Recitation like Hafs, Warsh, etc....as the Quran were revealed on 7 Modes or Styles of Recitation (Ahruf)>
THIS IS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE MIRACLES OF THE QURAN
and only done in Quranic Arabic where a Alternative Word (variant) with the same Rasm, that sounds similar have a Different Meaning but compliments or enriches the context, not contradicting it.
It's also in the Singular form when the reciter recites alone or in the plural it the reciter recites to a crowd, etc.
This channel just contradicted itself on the same page.
Two pages do not make a book. The content of those two pages are rip offs of Christianity
Jay is not convincing since seemingly he doesn’t know what Quran is about. It’s not about the life of prophet of Islam. Its major theme is the values and rules regulating the earthly life. Where as, the Bible is about life and teachings of Jesus written by other people. And, of course, the same events may be used to explain ideas and opinions. Moses, pharaoh or 7 sleepers.. if this was happened, and the God has an intention to teach a lesson, these stories may be be repeated. Can you criticize Luke for using the same stories written by Mark?
Stories from OT being repeated in the Quran is not a problem. The problem is that the Quran contains stories that were never in the Bible and some horrendous mistakes. The sleeper story is not biblical and the original story had a protecting angel not a dog but in Arabic the word for protector and the word for dog are similar and the correct translation is " angelic protector" not " dog".
Here is another example: Abraham came from Ur but the word " Ur" Is mistranslated in the Quran as " fire" so we get some silly mistakes of Abraham coming from a fire.
Next mistake. The Infancy Gospel of Thomas includes the same silly stories of Jesus childhood that the Quran contains but we know the Infancy Gospel of Thomas is a fake 4th or 5th century apocryphal text and it's stories of clay birds and a talking infant Jesus are plain stupid yet right there in the Quran.
Honestly the only reason a person would embrace Islam is because the love it's traditions, culture, ritual, Gawwwwd awful dress code or they simply hate Christians, black dogs, lizards and ham sandwiches.
@@rustyshackleford9557
Do you know when and how your bibles were cannoned?
That's why you get tons of Different Versions and EDITIONS.
Do you know Quranic Arabic to come to your Stupid conclusions?
Give the verses where '' the word for dog are similar and the correct translation is " angelic protector" not " dog" AND ''Abraham came from Ur but the word " Ur" Is mistranslated in the Quran as " fire" so we get some silly mistakes of Abraham coming from a fire''😀
How do you know that the Infancy Gospel of Thomas is fake - because it's not in your CORRUPTED BIBLES?😅
But we can know these facts: Allah is wrong about:
the age of Mecca
Sperm originating from the male backbone
What shooting stars are
Using camel urine as medicine
The order of creation
Where the sun goes at night
Whether king David used iron armor
Abraham's father's name
The idea that water can not be made impure
The height of Adam and Eve ( 30ft. Tall lol)
Btw to respect a person's belief might be silly. I have no respect for the belief of Nazis, satanist, the beliefs of cult leaders or gods who call me the worst of creatures. Respect is earned never freely given.
@@ErginSoysal And I am making it clear that I don't respect beliefs OR acts unless I feel those beliefs warrant respect. My God literally tells me " be not a respecter of men, they can all be bought with mana" a person's beliefs have to earn my respect it is never freely given.
But are they identical to the quran. word for word.
No, they aren't.
@@firstnamesecondname852 That clears things up for me. Then no one can claim that they are two pages torn from the so called original quran. Thanks.
The BIBLE in the eyes of JAY SMITH.
According to Jay Smith is that he believed that there is really ONE ORIGINAL GOSPEL. Since he cannot find it, he assumed that the gospel of John is already that book. But his is only mere assumption. He failed to make any clear evidence to show that his assumption is correct. Hence, he has to show manuscripts in Aramaic as evidence for his assumption that the gospel of John is the already real Gospel of Pophet jESUs (pbuh).
By his hasty assumption, he undoubtedly discarded the gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke into useless books which have no more meaning to the whole Christendom, and hence not fit to be used as the basis of the religiosity of the Christians.
According to Jay Smith the LETTERS OF PAUL are just MERE TAFSEER of the Old Testament and “other scriptures” (?). Tafseer means interpretation. If the letters of Paul are just mere tafseer, why is it they become the main core of the New Testament which comprised almost 90 percent of it. These should be written in a separate book. In the Islamic standard, no single tafseer is included in the Holy Qur’an. Hence, the letters of Paul must be written in a separate book.
Jay Smith failed not elaborate as to what specific book or verse/s in the Old Testament that each letter is intended to for being a tafseer. He should have elaborated on the following letters of Paul:
LETTERS OF PAUL TO THE DIFFERENT CHURCHES:
1). Romans - tafseer of what is it intended for?
2). Hebrews - tafseer of what is it intended for?
3). Corinthians - tafseer of what is it intended for?
4). Galatians - tafseer of what is it intended for?
5). Colossians - tafseer of what is it intended for?
6). Philippians - tafseer of what is it intended for?
7). Ephesians - tafseer of what is it intended for?
8). Thessalonians - tafseer of what is it intended for?
LETTERS OF PAUL TO THE DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS:
1). Timothy - tafseer of what is it intended for?
2). Titus - tafseer of what is it intended for?
3). Philemon - tafseer of what is it intended for?
4). James - tafseer of what is it intended for?
5). John - tafseer of what is it intended for?
6). Jude - tafseer of what is it intended for?
7). Peter - tafseer of what is it intended for? -07-25-23
Read St John of Damascus writings on Islam, which date back farther than their “authentic sources”. He clearly explains Islam was viewed as a Christian heresy. The writers stole from Christian texts and gnostic writings. Same as other Christian heresies.
Educate yourself - from a Jewish Historian>
czcams.com/video/tw2UbF01BSw/video.html
Your Christianity didn’t exist in the first three centuries.
‘Orthodox Christianity’ didn’t exist before the fourth century.
It’s funny how Christians want people to accept their made up church in the fourth century as a criteria for truth.🥴🤣
Fun fact. You only have to look at Muhammad's description of the Last Day to see that it is taken in parts almost word for word from the Gospel of St Matthew which was known to the Nazarene and Ebionite Christians around him at the time including his wife's cousin Waraqa. The angels and the trumpet and the fiery furnace and the Second Coming of Christ are all unique to St Matthew and the Quran. 😁
Fun fact. The Quran says that the crucifixion was an illusion created by the Greatest of Deceivers, Allah. A concept taken from the Gnostics. Muhammad may have been illiterate, but he debated religion all his life with the Jews and Christians around him and Islam was considered to be a new sect of Christianity by those around him at the time. Muslims were even protected by the Nestorian Christian Negus of Abyssinia.
@@davidzack8735
There were no ebionites and Nazarenes in the seventh century.🫠
These groups were much earlier. The ebionites didn’t accept the virgin birth.
The Nazarenes accepted the Hebrew Bible in Hebrew. They followed and practiced all the Mosaic teachings including the sabbath.
The sabbath is described in the Quran as a teaching for the Israelites and not for the Muslims. 🫠
That’s why scholars ignore your toxic group. You are not open for evidence and proof.🫠
Al-Fadi is a master of dialectic.
You mean dyslexic.
Electric boogaloo
Love from adam seeker sir
If Muhammad is really a title for Jesus and not a proper name, why isn't there ever a definite articles before it?
Where explain it
Because we have the biased muslim sources who lie to us for example.
@@thydarkarts Isa is "Jesus". In Aramaic, his name is pronounced Isho.
The "Sh" sound in Aramaic is "S" in Arabic.
The "O" sound in Aramaic is "A" in Arabic. IShO is Aramaic, ISA is Arabic. The same is true of SHalOm and SalAm (Peace)
@@salomonkalou9002 But Al Fadi and Jay Smith theorize that Abd'al-Malik was really a Unitarian Christian. Ancient carvings by Christian Arabs do exist. Allah is spelled Al-Ilah. There is no evidence that Jesus / Isa / Yashua (Peace be upon him) was ever called al-Muhamad or al-Machmed in Arabic.
@@JUSLOFI What?
ive always though islam quaran was just chrsitianity for muslims ,its more of a subsect of Christianity then its own thing
Am here to learn...GLORY TO JESUS GOD OF MOHAMMED
Istighfar (Astaghfirullah) is the road to happiness and relief. Start chanting it whenever you are distressed, and it will, insha Allah, lift you out of your anxiety, place you in a tranquil position
33 verses in the original Quran, 66 (33 +33) books of the bible although the bible speaks of way more books than the special 66 that made it...these Freemasons need to quit.
73 books made it into the Bible, until Martin Luther removed 7.
these christian missionaries get paid
to misled the christian about Islam
May Allah protect the muslim from
these people
They are clearly making claims that against the Birmingham 🤣🤣. Birmingham tested the whole Quran and kept few fragments of it as a part of their Collection
But he said Mohammad is fictional
The life of Moses by Gregory of Nysaa is another Christian literature used by Quran's author as a source of his book..
It was then that Moses, urged on by divine power, performed the most incredible deed of all. He approached the bank and struck the sea with his rod. (The life of Moses by Gregory of Nysaa-Abraham J. Malherbe & Everett Ferguson)
And verily We inspired Moses, saying: Take away My slaves by night and strike for them a dry path in the sea, fearing not to be overtaken, neither being afraid (of the sea). (QS 20:77)
Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, not struck the sea. (Exodus 14:21)
Wow😂 I bet a Muslim will say “those are corrupt verses in the Bible, thats why Mohamed was sent to correct them”😂
That’s just your translation of exodus.
This confirms what the local Meccans said about Muhammad at the time. That he was being taught by local Christians such as the Nazarenes and Ebionites of which his wife's cousin Waraqa was one. It also confirms Muhammad's lack of knowledge of the Old Testament. The Quran never once refers to the Ten Commandments. Muhammad just assumed that the whole Torah he had heard of 'came down to Moses'. He also believed the Psalms had 'come down from Allah to David' and that 'the Injeel was a book that had come down to Jesus.' He never grasped the fact that the Old Testament is a massive collection of myths and legends and laws and songs and prayers and histories of the Jewish people written down over thousands of years. He never understood that the four gospels are simply four different accounts of the life and teachings of Jesus Christ plus some letters of his disciples. Even today, Muslims still seek these supposed true uncorrupted books that Muhammad claimed to believe in whilst simultaneously claiming to be 'brother of Moses and foretold in Deuteronomy. ' 😁
@@davidzack8735
The Islamic sources don’t claim this. Don’t cherry pick from the sources.
I find it funny how trinitarians always want to make their theology and religion the centre of history.🫠
@mysotiras0187 Also translated as 'All Ears'. The person who angered him the most was al-Nadr b al-Harith who accused him of reciting 'legends of the ancients.' That is why Muhammad had him dragged in chains and beheaded on the way back from Badr to Medina in 624CE. 😁