SNK Neo Geo MV-1FZ (MVS) Backup RAM & Palette RAM Repair (Not the usual suspects...)
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- čas přidán 29. 07. 2018
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Another look at a BRAM fault on a Neo Geo board. This time it has a different cause.
Link to the diagram (and notes) I created - www.dropbox.com/s/vcwc88lzmbq...
Link to SMK Dan Diagnostic BIOS - smkdan.eludevisibility.org/neo...
UNIBIOS - unibios.free.fr/
#snk #neogeo #repair
Link to the diagram (and notes) I created - www.dropbox.com/s/vcwc88lzmbq22n5/1FZ-BRAM.jpg?dl=0
Link to SMK Dan Diagnostic BIOS - smkdan.eludevisibility.org/neo/diag/
UNIBIOS - unibios.free.fr/
42:05 ha, that's me. really shouldn't rewire power supplies in the dark with wires in non-standard colors. amazingly the MVS that I gave 12V still works fine months later but lost the multigame cart that was attached. and it was one of those new 161in1 carts that has a 5V regulator on each board. and looking at the regulator specsheet it says max 13V, so it should've been able to handle it?
the only thing that I can see could've been damaged on the cart is a diode that looks like it might be there for over-voltage protection, but checking with DMM it still seems to function as a diode.. maybe I should try replacing it anyway?
oh sorry, meant to make a new comment instead of reply.. and looking back the regs were these www.ti.com/product/LMS1585A setup for 3.3V I guess, but yea anyway Vin max 13V
I've fixed my MV1 thanks to your video and the diag bios, and like in your case the logic latch went under...
My symptoms were "funnier", not a single game of ADK worked (except ninja combat) and prehistoric isle 2 failed too... a lot of textures were missing and replace by white and black boxes.
The rest of the catalog worked fine, no glitches at all, from the old ones like fatal fury to the last, bigger, more demanding ones like kof's amd last battle, not a single problem. But not Alpha Denshi games... nope.
Thank god I got the palette error from the diag bios because if not I would be probably swapping expensive parts like a moron.
Thanks a lot!!
Phew. I finally finished watching after viewing in spurts. Great video! I learned a lot, as usual. You are a wealth of knowledge, sir.
Reduce, reuse, recycle: I'm happy to see the paper I had in the envelope with the PCBs I last sent you are still going to good use as a motherboard placemat (1:02:40). 😂
LOL! I need to put that paper somewhere safe! I've got those other boards to sort out with a video yet! Just been in a place where I cannot be bothered doing videos =/
Well, that was an hour well spent. Very interesting, very well explained. Another great vid and yet another board living to fight another day!
Thanks mate =D Much appreciated!
Gotta give a bit of love to the Neo Geo. The one range of things I really lusted after as a kid as soon as the consolised AES came out. Proper mass expensive then, and still hold its price to this day.
Edit, oh, you're welcome. Really respect the work ya do and the effort you put in to getting things working again.
=D
YOU can't believe you put an MVS board on the carpet???? ... hell, it is almost a trademark of your videos! You're still on the carpet, only now with a lovely green board for stability. Hopefully you're posting somewhere semi-permanent on the web the symptoms and the cure in full text descriptions to be found in web searches later on, rather than just the cryptic titles and video descriptions here so as to not spoil the surprise for us video viewers. Not sure if the MVS boards have a troubleshooting flowchart like other systems, but being able to google "C1 error whatever whatever" and find the solution being "replace the latch chip" might help someone else down the road.
Haha =D Yes, I've shared it on the Neo Geo forum there. The diagram at the end of the video (and linked below) provides a good summary of everything to look at.
Another fine repair Chris. It's always a good day when you save a Neo-Geo AES or MVS.
Thanks mate =D Indeed - always great to save a system =D
Keep up the great with the neo geo boards. They've been invaluable resource for helping me fix my boards
Thanks =D
I love these videos keep them coming please Gadget 👍
Cheers =D
We got lots of vectorized and verified chip pinouts on the wiki but noone cleaned up the schematics yet :(
wiki.neogeodev.org/index.php?title=Category:Chips
At 58:16 it's SNK having fun again, they represented A|B as ~(~A&~B) because the inputs are active low, so the OR gates act like ANDs for active low signals.
Glad you got that board going again :D
Thanks =D Ah, thanks for clearing up that reason for SNK doing what they did with the schematics there! Crazy lol!!! The work you've done on the Wiki is awesome btw! So much useful stuff on there now!
There are lots of useful stuff still not done, like the schematics and bookmarking of repair logs. Thanks for reminding me that documents aren't worth much if they can't be used :)
i just love your vids man
Thanks, much appreciated =D =D
not a problem.
Great vid some nice fault finding u had it in for that 259 chip though hehe :-)
THE DIRTY SLOT STRIKES BACK
=D
What I like about your vids (well, not your vids per se, more of the attitude) is the total lack of bias towards the platform you are working on. Never throwing shade or comparing similar era of machine to another (unless it's a total pile of trash that should never have been committed to a run of PCB's), you just crack on, get it working to the best of your abilities - which often ends up with a machine that works better or has better longevity than when it rolled in to WHSmiths.
Thanks mate - really appreciate it =D Yes, I do try to remain unbiased! TBH, I have love for all the systems I've shown on my channel. There are strengths and weaknesses with each system, but comparing just is pointless imo - why have one when you can both sides of the fence!
I never had playground wars with computers, I just loved what I had and was happy. Yeah so it can only do 16 colours, only comes with an ant farm for RAM, didn't care, it was mine.
Make a simple channel trailer - I'm not one to watch them, but a short, say a minute vid of what you do and what you accomplish would be great to share among peeps I converse with. It'd save me a shit load of typing lol.
Thanks, yes - I do need to do a proper channel intro at some point - if I continue doing vids. Hope your having / had a good holiday btw!!!
Have just got back :) need another holiday to relax after getting back from this one lol. Oh and please carry on doin the odd vid if you can be arsed. You are internet gold.
Always a please kind sir. Keep it up. 8^)
Anthony..
MV-1FZ is my fave as well. I got mine along with an MV-1 and the MV-1FZ was supposedly faulty but it was just a dead BIOS. Moving the *socketed* BIOS ROM from the MV-1 to the MV-1FZ was all it took. Heck, I had already programmed UniBIOS ROMs for it before I ever even powered it up so I inadvertently fixed it before even confirming the problem! To me, it’s the perfect board front-loading board to use for a consolization so I was surprised to see how few people were using a consolidated MV-1FZ before you. I suspect the LSPC2-A2 is faulty on one of my AES 3-6 boards so I’m going to try moving it from my known-good MV-1FZ to see if that does the trick. If so, I already know where I can order a replacement for $20. Thanks!
Let us know how you get on with that LSPC2-A2 - not a chip I would like to swap lol.
GadgetUK164 - Retro Gaming Repairs & Mods Will do! I recently salvaged a failed UltraHDMI installation for someone and managed to successfully remove the N64’s 160-pin QFP RCP (Reality Co-Processor - GPU) and reinstall it without damaging it (needed to remove the lifted pads so I could properly jumper the pins). Was good practice, but I still want more before I risk my working MV-1FZ. I’m going to practice on a box of 12 junk Super Famicoms with various bad QFPs (PPU1, PPU2, SCPU, etc). Maybe I’ll get a good video out of it. :)
Wow, that's a daring repair right there lol! I imagine a chip that size absorbs a fair bit of heat. It varies from board to board, but I find the MVS boards can take quite a lot of heat before the larger chips start to free up. Soldering them back on is the easy part!
GadgetUK164 - Retro Gaming Repairs & Mods Thanks! I recently got an Aoyue Int866 (preheated and hot-air station) but I don’t have any nozzles for removing QFPs. I used a tiny bit of knock-off ChipQuick (~1/4”) and spread it on all four sides before hitting it with the heat gun. It came off surprisingly quick at a relatively low temp. I used so little because I only had s tiny bit left. I’ll try not to use it for the SFCs but I will order more for the MV-1FZ (don’t want to risk it!).
got a couple of MV1FZ sold broken for 15€/ea last fall. one of them just had bent pins shorting and a dodgy audio cap. no battery leak or anything :)
Hello Chris,
This video is truly solid gold material. Over an hours worth on highly detailed, and skillful knowledge passed on to help others in similar situations they have now or down the line with their boards. Always said the University of Bath could use a good man like yourself. Now I feel your over qualified for the uni, and go all the way to Cambridge instead (no Oxford, bunch of snobs there). 8^)
I posted this on the Neo-Geo thread on Atariage.com for you.
It's on post #15,578 for you to view.
atariage.com/forums/topic/223548-the-official-neo-geo-thread/page-624
Thank you again kind sir. Always a pleasure to see your works. Come by the thread to make a posting. You're always welcome to do so. 8^)
Anthony..
Thanks my friend! Much appreciated =D
Great vid, mate. Who ever said the longer format vids don't work. :p
43:44 - Those chips look like standard SOIC size, so 1.27mm pin pitch, but the 259 chip is the wide version.
So, there would normally be an "SO16W" version of the part number. For the 259, I believe that's something like DM74HC259WM.
(the narrower chip you have there is the DM74HC259M, but the suffix can be different, based on manufacturer.
I think SOIC is the same as SOP / SO, but I STILL have to Google that, as I always forget. lol
As long as they have a 1.27mm pitch, so half of the usual DIL chips, then they should be SOIC / SOP / SO, or "Small Outline". But yeah, narrow and wide options for some. No idea why, tbh.
I think it was due to the older IC processes making the die too large to fit, so the wider chips were the standard for a while? Dunno.
The body + legs of the narrow versions are usually around 6mm, but the wide versions are 10mm.
SOJ chips are the ones where the legs can be bent underneath so they can be socketed, like the RAM on old-school gfx cards.
Or, still soldered to the board, like the VRAM on the Atari Jaguar, which I found out recently are a bitch to manually solder. lol
I'm sure I used to solder SOJ chips (with "J" legs) just fine years ago, so maybe I've lost the knack slightly, and / or need a new soldering tip, as mine is blunt now.
I sold my MVS to a good friend a few years ago, but I never really played the games, tbh. Too expensive to collect for, too complex / expensive for a Flash cart, and a lot of the games are beat-em-ups or sports.
My friend is more than happy, though, as he has it hooked up to his cabinet, with a proper arcade control panel etc. ;)
I still have a Neo Geo CD, though.
I was looking into making an ODE for it, and it has a very similar CD drive setup as the Mega CD / Sega CD, and others, so the ODE could be usable on many of them.
I'm already 37 years old (today), so I doubt I'll ever get all of these projects done. lol
47:11
That's one for the remix.
"By the time you've finished, it's all runny, like runny liquid all over board... Push it in and out of the slot..." And so on. lol
Thanks for the detailed reply mate =D Did you see the video Furtek did on his ODE for the Neo CD? Happy birthday btw =D
LOL =D
GadgetUK164 - Retro Gaming Repairs & Mods
Yep, I saw Furtek's vid. Awesome work. ;)
Hey hows it going :) I just got a 1fz consolized system from spain and it's great apart from 1 issue. The audio is very loud and in many games causes wavey lines when loads goes on at once. This is on the ossc. Metal slug when still is fine but once action starts it's very obvious. Could this be linked to the volume pot being to high or my scart to scart fully wired cable? Thought I'd ask as you know alot about them :) sorry to trouble you mate
Sorted it. I was using a cable mountain rgb scart. Ditched it for a kabeldirekt lead and now flawless! Keep up the great work mate
The absolute first thing I'd do with that board is remove all that hot glue from the capacitors xD Who thought that was a good idea?
SNK added the hot glue at manufacture! I agree though, it's best to remove it as you recap it.
i can't imagine covering the vents on the top of the caps with hot glue can be a good thing...
That was exactly my point on one of my older MVS videos there. Not good as the caps will really explode when the can cannot vent.
Yeah, I'm looking at that and going "the hell happened to those capacitors? Is that hot glue?"
Did you say '30 years', you only look on your 30's!
30 years is probably exaduration - I got out of the hardware side around 94 ish I think.
I recently did a dumb thing and plugged my MVS Neo Geo harness into a Jamma Switcher and my Neo Geo board into the switcher as well. I've since found out that only the single cartridge is Jamma :(
Now my visuals are super bright and high in contrast. I've swapped several vga boards and it seems to have damaged my Bust A Move Cartridge as well. Nothing looks as good as before, would you have a suggestion as to where I should start first?
Sound and everything else works great.
Thank you.
It's hard to tell where the fault is - the RGB comes out of a resistor ladder I think, from some 74HC245 ICs or something. Chances are one or more of the resistors might be bad, or maybe the 245. Depending on how your MVS is modded it might be something else related to the RGB or sync connections.
Still tapping chips. I just hope you dont do that with an old silicon chip under power (they have a habit of going pop) but amazing. I Wonder... if i were to say want to send you a neo geo where someone for some reason put power into the jamma (actually NOT me for once) and anyway the audio blew (to the point where it peeled trace off the board) would you consider fixing it and what would you charge a humble canadian for such a thing?
Haha, yes - old habits die hard! Interesting point there about some chips not liking vibrations! I know crystals can break from too hard a tap or knock. I cannot do repairs for people - I have a full time job, and long term health issues that significantly limit my time and energy. It's also stress I dont need - ie. risk of things going missing in transit, a repair working for a month and then some new fault appears etc etc.
GadgetUK164 - Retro Gaming Repairs & Mods can't blame a guy for asking. I'm just being lazy I have the tools and skills but not things like your test rom lol
No worries! There's always easy solutions to some problems! The test ROM for example, you can order a 27C1024 from buyicnow.com pre-programmed. There's an option to upload a ROM (which you can get from SMK Dan's page), and they charge you an extra $1 or something. It is from China so would take 2 or 3 weeks but it works out really cheap.
Is there a go to place you use to get your spare chips from mate?
For RAM chips you can order some of the chips from places like RS Online or Digikey, but most of the time I end up ordering from eBay or AliExpress (most of the stuff on eBay is from China too). For custom chips you need to take them from other faulty boards =/
Excellent video. I have an MV1b1 and one of the smd cap is missing , do you know or anyone here knows where i can find that info to replace it ? Thank you.
Most of the SMD caps on there are just 100nF
Hey man. So I recently booted up my Supergun and started getting video tearing at the top of the screen using this model of 1 slot with the 3.3 Unibios. I suspect the VRAM is on it's way out. It will still boot up ok and play games but there will be tearing at the top and a black rectangle in the top left of the screen? Do you have any tips?
That sounds a bit strange?!? Get a copy of SMK Dan diagnostic bios and see if the VRAM is reported as OK or not. Beyond that it sounds like maybe a sync issue tbh (except that the black block sounds odd).
@@GadgetUK164 I was mistaken, The black rectangle is just the edge of the screen. the whole upper fourth of the screen is moved to the right over an inch.
Hello, in mvs c1 is compatible 74hc32 by 74ls32?
An LS32 might work, but really its better to fit a HC32.
Can you give me and advice where to look when the problem is that the image is static with squares of colors thats all it does. Thanks
Its a mv2f
Have you tried SMK Dan Diagnostic BIOS?
When I turn on my MV1-FZ all I can see is a completely white screen. Could you give some tips? Is it possible to see something on screen with the diagnostic bios?
It could be a palette problem or DAC related (LS245's near bottom). If it was the DAC though I would expect a normal game cart to work (providing sound at least). Have you fully inspected the board for any damage? Also feel the tops of the chips to see if anything gets hot soon after power on.
hey I wonder if you could help me ? ive just swapped out the Neo-b1 in my aes ,I lost 2 pads pin 49 and pin 61 they come back as test data 05 and test data 10 on the pinout , ive been trying to see were they go but the appear to go nowhere is that possible? that they just aren't connected to anything ?
Guessing - looking at the pinout, I assume they are just test outputs from the line buffers - so you can check they are working. So they probably go nowhere... You could try following the other pins on that same bus, see if any one of them goes anywhere?
@@GadgetUK164 thanks I’ve checked the donar board with a multimeter and can’t see that they go anywhere it seems I got lucky with those pads , thanks for your time
I did this mod with a Duracell 2032 Lithium. Does anyone know how long these batteries will hold the Backup Ram on a MV1A Board?
Not sure - I have a CR2032 on my MV1FZ and I did that well over a year ago and its still holding settings fine. I would suspect 1 to 2 years probably.
@@GadgetUK164
Ok 2 Years is not so bad. Would be interessting to see if the MVS holds settings and highscores if you change the battery very fast.
@@GadgetUK164
The Virtual Memory named NeoBiosMasta solves this problem. It saves all highscores and progresses to this memorycard (if unibios is installed). So if you change the battery after 3 years you only lose the regionsettings and modes for the game. Since these are only stored in the backup ram, not on the card. The backup ram itself can only save the highscores of the last 8 games played and you lose them if you change the battery. So better get the NeoBiosMasta. It's as important as unibios. Changing the region settings for the games every few years is not a big deal...
An hour??? I'll have to wait till the kids are in bed.
Haha :o) It was a good job I could 20 minutes out lol.
hey mate. hope ur well. need help i, got a neo geo. from ebay top loader. from japan import. said it works and it doesn't i put a English adapter converter for power, power light comes on, however doesnt start spinning or anything more than that. instead of me faffing can i send it you and you fix it
I cannot do customer repairs sorry =/ Chances are the PSU needs recapping! The other problem with these is the 3 pin power connector that plugs into the Neo CD gets slack and dirty (get some deoxit in there and maybe try and tighen the holes with a fine screwdriver).
@@GadgetUK164 cheers mate. I've tried the tighten the pins n cleaning. No luck. What's recapping. Lol. (Newbie)
Why does the board have a pentagram stamped on it?
Crazy humour by SNK board designers! Many (if not all) of the arcade versions had it there...
@@GadgetUK164 Thanx for the reply.
Please mv-1a schematic
There are no MV-1A schematics available (that I know of) =/ You need to compare between Neo Geo CD schematics, MV1 schematics and perhaps the AES ones.