The £1300 AFDD consumer unit
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- čas přidán 5. 12. 2020
- There’s very strong language in this one and if you don’t like that, try spending over 1300 quid on AFDDs, then spending three weeks of your spare time at the busiest time of year for the business making a video with hundreds of audio and visual assets, a 12,000 word script and next to no helpful information provided by the manufacturers unless you ask for it or scrabble around in dark and funny-smelling corners of the internet. This hasn’t been fun, and I don’t care that you don’t like it. Also, I know it’s boring - it’s a video about AFDDs; what were you expecting, A FREAKIN’ CAR CHASE? Who are you? Why are you even here??
News just in: Wylex bumholes do line up despite appearances, so those with a flexible busbar need not panic about matching part codes. My thanks to Steve and Christopher for putting me right. Not sure why I had trouble with my main switch; I'll have to cut the power and refit it. Sometime.
Links:
My previous video on AFDDs: • AFDD: The Arc Fault De...
That American video on Eaton AFCIs: • The difference between...
The good folks at eFixx and their teardown video:
• What’s inside a Single...
A nifty Beama guide I came across:
www.rexel.co.uk/medias/sys_Re...
Ambulance scene courtesy of the British Emergency channel
• British Ambulances Res...
Where to find (often hard to find) AFDD indicator status info:
Clipsal (Schneider):
download.schneider-electric.c...
Hager:
hager.com/uk/products/pub/med...
Eaton:
www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/publ...
The CEF brands have downloadable user instructions at point of sale.
My thanks to regular comment contributor MathMan for the following links:
History of American AFCIs
www.ecmag.com/section/codes-s...
The Klein AFCI tester:
• AFCI Breaker Testing
The scene from Airplane 2: The Sequel is courtesy of Paramount Pictures.
My apologies again for having to suck my principles up my ass and fist mid-rolls into this one and for any commentors I neglected to mention. - Věda a technologie
I will start by saying that I'm a lawyer, not an electrician.
Hardly anyone looks at the actual legal wording of the Building Regulations but *all* that Part P says is: "Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury." Note there's absolutely no mention of BS7671 (the Regs).
The strongest thing that's said in an "Approved Document" (a document which contains practical guidance on ways of complying with the Building Regulations) in relation to the Regs is that design and installation of electrical installations *should* follow the Regs. Clearly compliance with the Regs is by no means considered mandatory.
Consequently my view would be that even if the Regs are changed to say AFDDs are to be fitted, the cost would make using them something that arguably goes beyond what would be "reasonable provision" given that no one seriously considers any installation without them to not comply with the (fairly general) requirements of part P of the Building Regulations.
BS7671 is non-statutory and doesn't have to be complied with, but it is seen as the minimum standard to work by and any deviations must offer no less safety. Electricity At Work Regulations is statutory, and the best way to not be hauled up in court under EAWR after killing someone is to show you complied with BS7671 and/or a higher order such as manufacturers' instructions. If BS7671 says "thou shalt install AFDDs" and my design omits them as I have done on my own lighting and smoke alarm circuits here because the cost vs. benefit isn't there according to my own mental risk assessment, then I'm putting myself at risk it will bite me on the arse should the wife and kids get killed in an electrical fire determined to have started by an arc on one of those circuits. Boy, would there be egg on MY face! The problem with BS7671 requiring AFDDs (as well as RCD protection on all socket outlets without exception) is that it leaves sparkies in the field wholly exposed. There are valid reasons why these things may need to be omitted out in the world, where installing them could cause more problems than they solve. We need to be able to apply good design and risk assessments to solve problems in order to meet the client's needs, not have our hands tied by guidance which slaps on blanket mandates and leaves us at risk of fouling EAWR should some common sense be applied.
I agree with our potty-mouthed CZcamsr. The wording of the regulation is one thing, but the implementation of it depends upon accepted guidance. BS7671 is a part of that. Shortly after becoming NICEIC approved (in a previous lifetime) I recall the advice: Install whatever you like, as long as you are prepared to stand in a courtroom and justify what you did. The NICEIC will back you ... but if it has come to court, the NICEIC will run a mile from you. [For "NICEIC", read "NAPIT" or "KFC" or whatever other tuppenny outfit you affiliate yourself to]. As for lawyers, all I can say is @*$£¦+µ*¼**!!!
@@devonfuse
If BS7671 is not mentioned how is it the BS that should be adheared to?
BTW, British Standards are _recommendations._ They can be ignored. The building regs are law - to be complied with. If a BS is pointed to in the regs, then that BS is law only in the context mentioned in building reg.
@@johnburns4017 as you say, they are only the accepted guidance, and you are free to stand in court and suggest your own alternative, but good luck with getting the court to accept that.
@@devonfuse
_accepted_ not written guidance.
David, don’t ever change; you’re bloody brilliant.
Well said Alistair and Sam
Wow. If I had known the video would last an hour and a quarter I probably wouldn’t have started watching. Truth be told, it was more informative and entertaining than some of the modern day Hollywood ‘blockbusters’. Huge respect to DSES for the effort put into making this one!
God that still of you and pissed pants really made my day! Laughed to tears
What a great production! Informative and well balanced 👌 Thanks for your hard work.
Fantastic insight to AFDD’s David!, tip my hat off to you. Never underestimate how much help and guidance your hard work is providing to all us sparks with content like this. You are a great asset to the industry!
Once again a excellent, educational and entertaining video - really appreciate the time and effort it takes to make this content, always look forward to your posts, they definitely guide my approach to my work and answer many of those question I struggle with when mobile googling... Nice nod to the gentleman from Scolmore, I doff my cap to you sir!.
Dave mentions DIYers. I find most naff installations were installed by people who were _paid_ to do it. Singling out DIYers as the prime culprits?
DIY installs are rubbish. I’ve had to rectify more DIY shite than other sparkies.
I've seen plenty of spotty work by pro trades too, and it's stuff that's been inspected.
@@jurassicsparks5220 BULLSHIT I'm not "qualified" in that I don't have the bit of paper but I got asked to look at a problem by a past work colleague where the so called "qualified" electrician had put the shower and the oven of the SAME FUCKING CIRCUIT! and this is with a new consumer unit which was also a shit install. My own system is over 20 years old and the only issue I've had was the main 100A service fuse arcing about a year ago. I have a thermal camera (I can easily look for overload/arcing faults) how many "qualified" sparks have thermal cameras?
As a DIY'er I am gradually correcting some real gash (and unsafe) electrics in my house. Most of which I think was the previous owner but I also believe some was due to cowboy sparks, having joined the dots on the paperwork that came with the house. Sorry, but I trust my work more than paying someone in most cases.
@@jurassicsparks5220 Depends on the DIYer. I have seen some shit DIY jobs and I have seen *very* shit 'professional' jobs.
I do my own electrical work for a reason.
Great video David - We had another look at the Wylex AFDD circuit boards and hidden on the back of one is what we think is an SMT surge suppression device - the large blue rectangle with no markings. Happy to send a photo for your next missive and thanks for the shout out - Cheers *Gordon.
That's interesting Gordon. I would have thought there's be some such component in there. Thanks for the update!
Ive just done my level 2, going in to level 3. Im just getting my head around the testing. Your vids are brilliant, makes perfect sense and direct and helps bundles. Cheers David. Top bloke👍
Excellent video - thank you for all your research and practical testing. Seeing how thoroughly you tested your install in advance to make sure you weren't going to get nuisance tripping was interesting too.
Great work - thank you!
Another excellent video David thank you.
Like Tony cable your knowledge and enthusiasm for our industry is also a major inspiration to me and a lot of other sparks subscribed to your channel, trying to keep up decent standards and best practices. Again a fabulous presentation on a subject made funny and also honest and informative.Thank you.
Another great video David, entertaining and interesting IMO and it's good that you share your opinions openly.
Bloody loved your commentary about shite manufactures websites and the complete lack of information regarding the status light.
I’m a site based electrical engineer for automated machinery and we get this bollocks all the time with the various electric gadgets we find on the shop floor.
I recently had a chiller that had an alarm code, a quick google search showed that the alarm was for the “condenser fan life exceeded” not only did this stop the chiller working and caused a machine breakdown , but the alarm would only mute but not clear using the reset button. A hour of googling later I stumbled across another version of the manual and this guided me deep deep into the settings menu’s in order to change a parameter to bloody reset the alarm.
There was nothing wrong with the fan, just the chiller decided the fan must be fucked based on the number of running hours. Cunts !
Best spark on CZcams. Very insightful and funny i have been in the game for 15 years watching his videos i learning something every time. Keep up the good work Dave
Hi Dave A very comprehensive and informative video, being retired I’m never going to be troubled by this new technology. But as a potential customer in the future I may well be affected . I think you’re absolutely right that these devices are really only suited to new buildings and totally rewire installations . And it’s in this market I can see some benefits, ie a definite diligent approach will be needed to ensure no fault tripping on completion . Which will not eliminate the cowboys, but my make them stop and think a bit. So thanks again for enlightening me about this new development in the industry. And a big plus for me is you make laugh out loud , Bless you 🤣👍
Very informative Dave, thanks for some great insights based on praactical experience in the field including your observations on consumers' perceptions and behaviours that will affect whether the desired outcomes of the next update to regs will be achieved.
I feel famous. Can sign autographs for a small fee, please send any items for signing along with an SAE.
Hour of my time well spent , love the content :)
I recently hurt my back and am feeling miserable. This video is actually making me smile. Thank you.
To bottom line:
Arc detection devices are only worth having on heavy current circuits like: cookers, sockets, electric water heaters, etc. Lights, sockets with only light load that serve computers, etc, leave off.
So, the upstairs and downstairs rings can be left off, but have it on a kitchen ring with heavy appliances.
Technically if you have a fancy new-ish washing machine in your kitchen eg samsung with inverter driven motor you also need a type B Rcd for the supposed DC leakage of various forms.
@@kjgreen3
Type B is for smooth DC and pulsating. Type A does only pulsating. Does the Samsung leak smooth DC to earth?
Regs last year say AFDDs are mandatory on high rise, care homes, etc. But recommended on all other installations. _Recommended_ means you have to unless there is a good reason not to fit an AFDD.
The price has dropped in the past two years.
@@johnburns4017 Yes most cheap inverter drives are 'noisy' in the case of them pulsating and various frequencies. In fact they should be on a type F RCD not a type B.
Thanks for putting in the time to make this one, really enjoyed it. You've mentioned a couple of times that you're only on 60A; what made it easier to do the priority unit rather than upgrading to 100A?
the suppliers fuse is a 60A fuse, and from what I know you would have to contact the supplier to arrange to get the fuse upgraded
Brilliant video, thank you David.
Once again a excellent insight to the use of AFDD 's. Thank you David.
well done David good info and once again telling it how it is yes a dull subject but great video
Nice job. I have had RCDs and MCDs trip while doing EICRs on large installations when using 2 way radios. How good are these devices if home hub is on shelf above consumer unit which is pretty common ?
Another brilliant video thank you David that was very informative
Well done
Live for these videos Dave cheers
Hello David
Another master piece. Hopefully the more these bad boys get used the price will crash . We will still get our pants pulled down for a while and to explain price to end user will be fun if even if specified.
But please carry on with these very informative videos. Bafta on its way
All the best keith
Great job me hearty. You've covered so much, my only question is - about the boiling water tap, can you mention any info perchance? 👍
As usual an excellent video presentation and commentary in respect to the possible compulsory introduction of AFDD within the UK. On the subject of USA domestic electrical installation while residing there l found that there was very little choice between the number of manufacturers and a very old style of electrical components as you observed. I feel that this is partly due to there being such a large home market and very little exposure to different competing manufacturers as we have in the UK. This is something l don't see changing for sometime in the USA. Anyway keep up the good work and stay safe.
Thank You for a very informative topic keep up the great work on your channel much appreciative
Great production and very informative video
Quality stuff as usual :) If you keep this up you will get asked to do talks at exhibitions :)
A4 photo copys of what all the LED's and flags indicate need to be on the wholesalers counter.
How about knocking up a dummy consumer unit with one of BigClive's Dept of Villainy controllers operating the LED's for some fun :)
Hi David, great video. Many sparks won't have a clue what your talking about though !!
Here in Terra Australis, Clipsal are starting to promote their new line of MAX9 products including AFDD's. We recently had a new AS/NZ 3000 Wiring Rules published with only one small section mentioning the recommendation of installing AFDD's. New versions of AS3000 wiring rules comes out every 10 to 12 years. So hopefully I will be retired before these become mandatory over here.
Always great content from dses
Love the parental advisory at the beginning of the video Dave,I know which videos to avoid when I have a class full of kids and a lesson observation!🤣However another great informative video keep up the good work!
David, you are brilliant, I love your video, especially this one.
I realise this may be a silly question, but could it be better to have arc-detection built into an MFT, so that arc faults are detected during an EICR, instead of having installed devices constantly monitoring for them? (We don’t after all have devices in our CUs constantly monitoring earth continuity or insulation resistance…)
Question please: My friends just had their CU set on fire due to a loose neutral on the main switch. Luckily they were in the kitchen cooking at the time so noticed the flashing light on the oven and then quickly noticed the fire. I'm curious if an AFDD would be capable of detecting a fault on it's input rather than it's output? It obviously wouldn't have been able to isolate the supply, but potentially could have isolated the high current device mostly responsible for the arcing.
An excellent question Daniel, and one I'm not sure of the answer to. Although the fault would have been upstream of the device, the loose connection may have introduced an arc signature onto the current then passing through it to the appliance perhaps. I wonder if such a fault in my CU could see multiple AFDDs trip off together, and if such a fault is observed in the wild whether that would be a smoking gun to a problem upstream?
@@dsesuk that's exactly what I'm thinking - but I'm not bright enough to know if it'll look different pre or post supply.
David S says I asked a good question? Well don't I feel like a clever prick now =D
I'm really thrilled that you cleared up the misnoma that AFDDs could only possibly work for a single circuit (and why you can't get split afdd boards).
edit: I suppose if you moved your wall tester to be on the supply side of the Cave it might be possible to test with a load on the afdd output, but it's gonna be a faff to rewire. And I'm not sure how you'd ensure supply voltage when putting an arc fault onto it :/
edit2: Just to be clear, that wasn't sarcasm; the last person I asked dismissed the question as silly and I was starting to believe them ;)
I thoroughly enjoyed that. Thank you.
(I'm not an electrician)
Great video and rant, thank you! Agree with pretty much everything you say. I can't get my head around that there's no test you can do on a circuit prior to adding an AFDD that will say whether it will trip or not, though I like your advice about measuring Rn+R2 or R1+Rn to look for hints of poor connections. We're effectively back to the dark ages of doing a bang test.
A small point about the mis-matched bumholes at 24:01 (NHX vs NHXL MCBs, or NHSX vs NHXS1 RCBOs): the bumholes don't line up, however the sphincters act from opposite directions, so that by the time they clench on the "Wylex flexible style" bus bar everything is lined up perfectly. Try it! :)
Thanks Steve, someone else pointed that out so I went out today and sourced an NHXL to compare and this is correct. Not sure why I had trouble aligning it with my main switch on the day, but that may have just been down to my ham-fisted hurridness.
Interesting Video, Could you do a video on your electric heating system?
😂😂😂 I'm so glad I found your channel.. the only guy who can make AFDDs entertaining and not send us to sleep....looking at you john ward 👀
Your vocabulary is Oscar-worthy I do hope you know that David Shakespeare!
Thumbs up
I have a temptation to upgrade my 40 amp shower circuit to afdd if the price comes down to something reasonable. However it's on a contactor to separate it from the electric heating for reasons relating to maximum demand. I was curious how the afdd might react to contactors opening and closing with a heavy load such as this.
Contactors shouldn't cause problems. The switch bounce which causes some arcing wouldn't have the same characteristics as a loose connection.
It would be great to get an update on what your thoughts are now. I've been talking to my customer about this as I'm about to start a small new build project and they are refusing to pay £150 per unit for afdds. The cost isn't coming down anytime soon as far as I can see
Bollockingly brilliant, top drawer entertainment to your usual standard!!
Holy crap I need some headache tablets 😩 bloody fantastic David
Looking forward to it!
Not only have I learned... I have genuinely laughed out loud. LOL.
Dave...On point as always. And this industry and its regs (so-called) makes us all potty-mouthed...especially the more northern sparks like me 👍. You are a legend and will always be watched by those of us that care about our trade. ✔✨✨✨✨
Hey buddy! Hoping you can help me with a clamp meter. I dont know much but truly looking to learn! I want to purchase a clamp meter under 200 for AC AND DC current I'm looking for something SAFE/WELL PROTECTED and capable of reading AC AND DC current from .5 amps to 60 amps as accurately as possible through the clamp. Do you have 1,2 or 3 suggestions. I was looking at the Klein cl800 but someone told me it will not read AC AND DC current through the clamp down to half amp accurately..... THANKS FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN PROVIDE ME
Totally agree on standardisation, especially terms and colours. Having different colours is shameful. Like the common on 2-way switching cables, like CPC colour on SWA. Such a simple task for industry to do.
Plenty of info in this video, very informative indeed & yet another potential big shake up in an ever changing industry. Great news about including ANOTHER TEST in an EICR, an Rn + R2 test, this won't trouble the 'drive by' testers BUT will trouble those of us with an EICR conscious who already spend hours on site carrying out an EICR, which have ever decreasing prices to remain competitive with the cowboy bastards. As for the addition of AFDDS, where does that leave a satisfactory EICR in the PRS Scheme that's still valid for say another 5 yrs, will that now become bolloxed due to the lack of AFDD'S!! Great video David.
Really good presentation of the real world issues around AFDDs.
That was a very detailed description of your property... you trying to sell us your house or something?
Interesting that the mic audio interference seems in sync with 2nd/3rd from right LEDs 37:30
Wow your knowledge is second to none, i can only hope on my electrical journey i can accumulate a fraction of your superior knowledge along the way, (love your dry humour also :) P.S. as a scouser i have never consumed special brew :P IPA all the wayyyy........!!
Excellent video, thank you.
Cracking video. Hands down the best AFDD video out there for sparks.
Note:
My head 42:55 is completely the correct size for my shoulders.
Thanks for your input on this one Neil. When does your new podcast begin and where can we find it? [plug opportunity]
@@dsesuk my pleasure mate. The Electricians Show will be starting in the new year and will be on CZcams and all audio podcasting channels.........
David, you are so applaudable and bang on with your perception and comments based on what can only be ever based on experience, I will shake your hand and buy you a drink if ever we meet.
I was like you a few years ago, I was a one man band and Niccy member up to about 2008, when I decided enough was enough, and left the electrical contracting industry due to the paralysis by analysis outcome mainly regarding what was then called PIRs and keeping the Niccy inspector happy, and arguing about the over construal and perception of the wording of the then 16th edition. Moreover though, having to fork out on other publications and documentation, whilst trying to make a wage and explain to customers why they need to have additional work to be done to fit an extra socket or fit a new fuse box/CU. It sounds like you have had enough too, if this is so I completely sympathise with you.
I'm going to slightly and digress now, please excuse me if I rant.
I got a cards in start servicing and repairing electrical and gas commercial laundry machines, and catering equipment, where I under went gas training to supplement the scope of the work. The regs are pretty tough with the gas and there a more of them than there are electrical regs, but they tend to be broken down into domestic and commercial requirements overall, and the assessments have to be re done every 5 years. But overall, Gas Safe are much easier to deal with than the Niccy. Although they are more reactive, unlike CORGI who were proactive. But as long as the work is safe and compliant, everything is good. The safe/unsafe situation categories are on par and similar to the electrical condition codes, but the testing doesn't take as long, and certification is much more straight forward, and pre regulations can be applied retrospectively as an Not to Current Standards (NCS), in the same way a code 3 can be, unless a new appliance is installed, or existing pipework or a ventilation system is modified. Anyway, I eventually decided to set up another business carrying that kind of work.
Apart from occasionally arguing with chefs who think they should be on TV, I was much less stressed and and could dictate whether or not an appliance or gas supply could remain in service, unless the safety defect is remedied immediately. This can be sometimes beneficial on cash on completion jobs.
The niche fell out of the market a few years back with catering equipment, due to competition from other gas engineers extending their scope, and undercutting prices, and companies installing rubbish and leaving the gas system in a questionable state of safety and compliance. Only to end up loosing out on quotes. So I left that industry and started working mainly with industrial ovens, on the electrical, controls, mechanical and gas package burner side, where surprisingly, no Gas Safe registration is required as the GSIU don't cover industrial processes. Only proof of competence is required, that could be historical from before CORGI existed, or receiving product OEM training of the plant or equipment being worked on.
I occasionally kept my hand in carrying out some basic commercial and domestic electrical work, testing and some additional or extending circuits what didn't come under the part P notification, and just used the Niccy certs and forms that I had left over with the serial number torn off. Recently though, I was approached by some folk wanting some work for gardens ad bathrooms etc, which will obviously need to be notified either by them for a huge cost, or by me with a small cost by re registering with a scheme provider.
I looked into re joining the Niccy, only to be told that my C&G 236 A, B, and C, along with AM 1 and AM 2, is no longer valid to be a qualified supervisor with a scheme provider. I have to do another version of an AM 2, that looks like its on par with a 2396 testing and verification, that covers "THREE PHASE," as if its a new invention and only rocket scientists can understand it, just so I can sign off an EICR! The fact that I was a qualified supervisor of my own Niccy registered company no longer counts. Its an insult to a seasoned trades person. Then to add more insult to injured feelings, if I decide to not continue with a scheme provider for 2 years or more, I have to do another AM2 to join a scheme provider again.
The amount of laundry machine services that I have been to, where the washers aren't boiler fed, and heat the water with elements, the amount of departures on the installs that are carried out by Niccy contractors, especially regarding undersized cables and oversized circuit protection, and no provision of connecting the CPC was unbelievable. When I reported the departures, all they did were return to site and connect a supplementary bond from the water pipes behind the machine to the metal work on the washers! In addition, when I filed a complaint about the contractors to the Niccy, because the contractors told me to keep my nose out of their business and stop telling them how to do their jobs. The Niccy advised that as the departures were serious, they concluded that my investigating the lack of provision of a connecting a CPC by opening the connection outlet plates and seeing that no CPC had been installed, but only a 4 core flex had been dropped through a pvc conduit, instead of a 5 core flex, actually meant that I had worked on the installation since, and therefore was not the registered companies responsibility!
Its just the cost of proving something that I already know, then the cost of the billy hoo of joining a scheme provider to sign off less than a few jobs a year that's making me hesitate.
If I do decide to sit the new AM2, it will be to prove to all the folk that dream up these requirement that have never worked on the tools, or worked for themselves that its not a challenge, but nothing more than a money spinner to even more third party industry parasites, offering no advantage to the person undertaking the assessment or examination. Even if an individuals proof of technical know how and competence, was indeed proved and accepted many years ago by undergoing an ongoing assessment once a year having up 5 jobs inspected and scrutinised against the requirements of the current wiring regs. Along with being asked general knowledge questions regarding the provision of designing, selecting, erecting and installing, maintaining, verifying and carrying out the required tests on a circuit and providing documentation, which all installation electricians should be seasoned enough to know. Which will still be the case if I re join the Niccy, only to prove to them what they already know, that I can already actually verify and test, but I have to be assessed by additional third parties to prove this prior to being accepted for assessment by them, or another scheme provider!
Why don't they just knock the scheme providers on the head, and just get all electricians to sit the new AM2 test, then that could be deemed as having a licence. At the end of the day, no matter if your the best or the worst, qualified, skilled or both, you are still responsible for the work that you do and liable to prosecution following any losses resulting from neglect or any oversight. Then any job that requires verification of compliance etc, the insurance companies that require the work to be carried out by a scheme provider, and the council could employ their own clerk of works inspectors, and carry out random tests on any or all circuits and trace it back to the responsible contractor. In the same way that specifiers do on larger jobs or on MOD sites etc. Then there would be less chance of hiding behind favours or old boy networks, and would mean that a higher number of jobs could be inspected instead of only a small percentage of work being inspected of members of scheme providers. I think they are on a similar system in the USA and Canada but with the residential jobs, the building inspector calls to the work afterwards.
The companies should be charged for the tests, and any departures that are found, the contractor could be made to return to site and remedy, then pay for a re test by the inspectors, in the same way the NIccy are supposed to do when inspections get deferred. All work could be checked, and this would reduce the cowboys to a minimum, as they would go out of business in no time at all due to.
Anyway, I'll rant no more, I'll subscribe to your channel David
Another brilliant video which puts the point across in a no nonsense manner.
I too think that insurance companies could do more to encourage clients to maintain their installations and produce certificates to prove so. After all this would reduce electrical fault related claims eating into their profits.
Keep em comin', great video!
What is the reasoning behind putting a Type A RCB (+AFDD) on the PV system?
It's an upgrade over the Type AC, but most inverters are not isolated (they're transformer-less) and I think (but may have misunderstood) that 712.411.3.2.1.2 means they should have a Type B RCD.
This bloke tells it like it is, what an absolute star 🌟 I've been a spark for 26 years and I'm with him, forget the You Tube pretty boys and posh vans, Dave & Nigel are the business 👍
First time viewing this channel, you are hilarious and rightly get a follow.
It seems to me (a knowledgeable and skilful diy sort of person (competent?), that household electrics are becoming rocket science, with interpretations requiring more knowledge than most practitioners poses, and the skills of the legal profession to interpret. It seems very dangerous to enhance the requirements, far in advance of the learning curve of the industry. Opens up the market even more to cowboys.
Great Video. Raised lots of questions. The regs should be proactive in forcing a standardised set of flashing fault indicators (this should be in the consultation). Otherwise mayhem. Keep on kicking ass.
Like the videos, please can you do a video on technical books, references etc you recommend? Thanks
Does this mean that I need to replace my black Wylex, 4 way. rewireable fuseboard ?
Did you buy them AFDD’s from Arc Writes corner shop?
Feh feh feh fetch yer cloth.
Will they still function in flashing mode??
Yes, the indicator shows what the last trip event was, but it continues to monitor and operate regardless of what the LED is doing.
totally agree with the insurance thing, either discount for proper paperwork or invalid if not up to date. and as you say regulate who can carry out EICR's
How dose the AFDD s Comply to temporary mains as in the entertainment industry
I wonder if there is a difference in "vampire draw" when unloaded / loaded / signalling a fault? On the MCU side I could expect there to be no effort made to do power saving when signalling a fault.
When the 17th edition was being proposed there was a similar discussion about the increased cost of installing dual RCD consumer units. When I raised this point at an ELEX show with a representative from the IET he simply pointed me to the page of BS7671 which lists the committee membership.
He simply said “count the number of BEAMA members in the list - there you have your answer.”
Not that I am against RCD protection - far from it - it is an essential additional protection for shock and fire protection.
What was being highlighted is that often these changes are mandated by the industry to create the new sliced bread of profit rather than truly lifting the level of safety at an affordable cost to the client.
Dave, you hit the nail on the head at the end of this piece when you talked of a compliant registration industry down-playing poor standards of workmanship from their membership. After all they are very happy to take the annual fee from a growing number of electricians who may or may not be properly qualified, particularly if their entry to the industry has been via a short course, without any on the job training and supervision.
great video dave
Good thing you are getting the better solid state AFDD devices in the UK so is suspect you guys will jump to 2-4 generations. Though latest Leviton devices combination RCD and AFCIs and WiFi power quality breakers so that will be your next step up.
Awesome video, thanks.
What are those LED wall lights you have? They look cool!
He's done an install vid on them. Dear enough bit of kit. www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B075DHJ6JW
@@SteS Nice one!
Two quick points:
1 - if the AFDD has firmware then that firmware will need updating at some point to fix bugs or add improvements. How do you update the firmware and how would you tell which AFDD has which version of firmware installed? In a board that has a number of these devices, differing behaviour could be explained by different versions of the firmware.
2 - since the AFDD has a mini-motherboard why doesn't it implement wifi and allow remote interrogation and operation?
An embedded controller doesn't necessarily need updating, especially if not connected to the wider world. If it's a closed system and the programming is solid it can just do its thang. If anything goes wrong though or the manufacturer recognises a bug that needs addressing, then we're in physical recall territory. Personally, I'd prefer my consumer unit to not be on the WiFi!
quality Savery justified informative rant..
I agree, we really need a change to the schedule of tests to include neutral , I always tell my students just because it’s not required we still should record it, even if it’s for arse covering at a later date.
Could you pls make a consumer unit design to be plugged into "solar generators"ac socket???
Thanks for taking the time too make the video David, and thanks too your long suffering wife also.
Manufacturer maximum expectation on electronics service life is 10 years. AFDD must have a replace by date or code on them?
Brilliant video 👍
Comfy seat ✔ Glass of something appropriate ✔ Ready to be entertained ✔ 👍
Great video. Great content and information/advice. I can't help but agree with you on all your observations and thoughts for the future of these things, as well as the way the industry is being run at the moment. I am also in the process of changing my rads for electric heating. Never understood why a central heating system only heated everything that's connected and can't be more flexible like electric heaters. I dont want my bedrooms to be toasty hot in the middle of the night when i only want to heat up my hallways and can't really properly regulate the system like I would like, despite having valves, they still don't provide the same flexibility as a well designed controller like most electric rads have. I have installed some Rointe conservatory ones as they are low enough to go under my window ledge. Time will tell how reliable they are, but have had to get one replaced and another parts serviced as they failed within first two months. Interested to know which electric boiler you chose as this may be something worth considering. Having looked into them a while ago it seems they can be quite lethal if they go wrong. Also most said they need to be installed by a qualified person to certain regulations since they are quite a lethal item and need to be signed off to certain gas regs. Still if I have a 100 amp supply it should still be reasonably economic, if I can get some solar to offset some of the costs. Thanks again for the lengthy but informative video.
Ah, not an electric boiler - individual electric heating solutions for different rooms. Panel rads, underfloor, a storage heater in the hall, all independent (no centralisation). Pricey to run though, I need to look into better ways of doing it, although the PV helps.
@@dsesuk Ah ok. So you havent got an Electric Boiler for water? if not what do you use if you don'tmind me asking. I'm curious as I'm looking to get some form of arrangement for a holiday cottage that has no Gas only Electric and wondered if an Electric Boiler might be better than an Immersion with two heaters. Thanks in advance for any reply.
@@peterpuchalski817 No, I have a basic immersion which clicks on once a day to provide warm water for handwashing. The shower is electric, there's a dishwasher for the washing-up and we have the instantaneous boiling water tap if we need some hot water quickly.
@@dsesuk Cool. Probably will stick with that as it's a tried and tested method and only needed for washing up and sink tap anyway, as the cottage also has an electric shower. As i said before, after reading about the Electric Boilers they do seem a tad dangerous if and when they go wrong as they can apparently explode ! Anyway thanks for your quick replies and many thanks for the really informative videos, they actually help me to stop and think twice. which happens more the older i get and a symptom of working on my own too often. Thanks again.
Hi mate what did you use to link the neutral bars
A couple of U-shaped links of 10mm if I remember rightly. I'm only on a 60A service here.
@@dsesuk okay buddy
Eagerly Awaiting another "captivating" video from you David.. JW seems to gone quiet recently, I've resorted to looking at others videos but they don't seem to grasp that certain "je ne sais quoi" that you radiate so efficiently...
Ah, I had a bit of a break, but another one is being worked on. One simply needs to pull one's finger out.
@@dsesuk. Splendid news.. Keep safe..
Thoroughly enjoyed
Mr S. This has been doing my head in for some time now. Ever since I brought a new washing machine and it stated that it was not to be fitted to an Ac type rcd. I know this stream is about Afd’s but it may still be a problem. I know I thought “Ask David” they CZcams sparky guru!
Type Ac Rcbos and dc earth leakage.
Might be a stupid question but
If I have a problem with dc earth leakage on a circuit and I swap the existing rcbo for a type A. Can the other type ac devices still be affected by the dc leakage. 🤞🏻
That's an excellent question Darren. I suspect the answer would be yes, the other devices would be affected as the DC leak would apply across them all being as they're commoned in the consumer unit.
Thanks for the reply, it is greatly appreciated. The funny thing is my “assessment and certification services company assessor” said it was impossible due to the laws of physics. Hager technical did confirm that it does. 👍🏻 love the Chanel “ it’s real”!
@@darrenplant619 Not sure which physics lessons he had, but in mine we were taught that electrical equipment connected together at the same point would all be at the same voltage!
THANK HEAVENS - at last I've found an installer who is as cynical as I am.... I built my house when most of you were in nappies and viewed the 'new' electrical standards with great misgivings (one of my college (now kicked upstairs to An University in its own riight) lectturers) who sat on the board - or whatever it was - who oversaw the 'new' standards / regulations, and I though it will all end in tears. No end in sight but there are a helluva lot of tears. Some shysters will make loadsa dosh by junking reasonable installations and a few will try (your goodself) to be reasonable and bring back commonsense and good quality installations for the Greater Unwashed...
I am wondering why the name of these has device stuck on the end,i.e. residual current detector,so why not arc fault detector, as indeed DS called it about 4.5 mins in ? Both are devices,obviously, seems inconsistent though.
Nice job. I have had RCDs and MCBs
What inspired you to remove gas heating?
My boiler packed up and the replacement cost for something I can't install or maintain myself was rather high.
@@dsesuk
How does your electric bill compare to previous gas & electric, as economical or more expensive?
In your experience can a single fuel system be viable and as practical when two fuels are available?
It would be great if you could share the positive/ negatives of such a system in a future video.
Brilliant, keep it up mate.
That was absolutely superb! Interestingly Dave "That crazy Aussie" Jones on EEVblog was making a similar valid comments about the power consumption of piss poor designed devices such as smoke detectors, this and the AFDD do represent a real world issue in power consumption. There should be no reason for these devices to consume large amounts of energy if correctly executed.