Did Too Many Jedi Survive Order 66?
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- čas přidán 15. 10. 2023
- Did too many Jedi survive Order 66? Let's look at how many survivors there actually are compared to how many there were, George Lucas's own plans for Jedi survivors, and the story reasons behind those specific characters!
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It's totally fair to imagine that, in a galaxy of countless planets, 1% of the order was not directly reachable by palpatine or the clones
Exactly and kenobi even says this in a new hope that vader hunted down and killed the jedi. But in revenge we only see him kill jedi at the temple so there must of been survivors that he hunted in that 20 year period.
The problem is not that they survived order 66 as you both well say. The problem is they survive even after the rebellion ends! Luke is supposed to be the last jedi
@@Oniriumnah
In the comics he continues to do so. @@lemonynora
@@Onirium exactly The Jedi Purge and Order 66 was succesful
Kenobi said "all but extinct." Even if 300 Jedi survived. That's a small percentage of the Jedi order.
There is no Jedi Order. There are no Jedi. Just some force users. "I was once a jedi knight, the same as your father"
There wasn't even 300 Jedi in the Attack of the Clones movie tho... Lol
@@grantponciano9386200 jedi not 300
Ironically, I think Cal Kestis himself might have killed more survivors of the Jedi Purge than anyone but Vader or the Inquisitors. They weren't really Jedi anymore, but they did survive the Purge.
The way I interpret it now is that Yoda knew this was to be Luke's trial. He had to be the one to confront Vader if he was going to become a Jedi. Telling Luke that there were more Jedi could have changed his motivations, resulting in him seeking more help instead of facing his destiny.
This is why I've never been a crazy fan of dialogue that's like
"You're the last this or you're the last that".
I understand how sometimes it can be used to add tension but it also seems limiting to more story potential
Remember when Rian named a movie "The Last Jedi" and says he doesn't regret any choices he made 😂
I think they're probably finding ways around the "the last of the jedi" lines by having survivors not actually being full jedi. Like, some are padawans like Cal, some had already left the order, like Ahsoka, etc. Kanan was the one that actually got the title of Jedi Knight and he died so...
Yeah and we don’t know if Cal will die. Ezra was in an entirely different galaxy so I doubt yoda knew if he was alive or not he doesn’t have a tv or radio. And yeah ahsoka and Baylan renounced jedism
Cal was knighted, too!
@@veronicavaes4581 maybe he'll die too then, idk 😂
I can see why many would feel this way, but I attribute that mostly to almost every showing of the Jedi Order unable to display just how how huge it is. It's a bit of a problem since on one hand it feels so insular when we see the same Jedi knights/masters/padawans over and over again, yet on the other hand just pulling another jedi out of nowhere can risk dilution.
I will say though that this was a much bigger problem in Legends.
If a high-ranking Jedi like Obi-Wan can slip through the fingers of the 212th, then it definitely makes sense for young Jedi Knights and Padawans to slip through the cracks on a galactic scale.
100% it makes less sense if every jedi died in order 66 apart from yoda & kenobi. What did Vader do for all that time? Also kenobi says in a new hope that vader hunted the jedi so it makes sense that there were survivors who he hunted as the only Jedi we see him kill is at the temple in revenge.
@@lemonynorayou’re misunderstanding. People don’t mind a few stragglers who go into hiding. The point is, in new Star Wars, they’re not in hiding. They openly carry lightsabers and do Jedi things.
They should have abandoned anything remotely Jedi about them. They should be constantly on the run. Like Jewish people in WW2. People would be reporting someone with a laser sword, which would bring legions of clones after them.
In the comics, obi wan says ‘the hardest part about being a Jedi, is not being a Jedi’
When he sees people needing his help, but he can’t help them without blowing his cover which would cause Vader to kill him and child Luke
@@lemonynorato be frank most of the new Jedi appearing during the Disney tenure is either
a) a straight up Rebel sympathiser so they need to use their Jedi power or they themselves being a Jedi could be a symbol of hope for their Rebel faction
b) they just appear post-RotJ basically they use the fall of the empire to openly use their force again or return being a Jedi
I think it’s pretty logical there would be a few survivors out of the 10.000 Jedi during the Clone Wars. Not only that but the number of initial survivors rapidly decreased within the first years of the Empire.
Its more around 58 if you count everything.
Those names on the hidden path wall in kenobi added alot of survivors.
I think the main issue is perspective. If the 200 (ish) number given by Legends had been mostly a statistic given in a sourcebook while having only a fraction of those appear in actual stories then I don't think people would see this as a problem to the same state as they do now. However, there are loads of stories in both Canon and Legends that focus on them which makes their prominence seem larger than they actually are.
Also the bigger question left by Jedi making their way into the Original Trilogy (especially if they join the Rebels) is why they didn't help train Luke. Aside from not giving an explanation for where Ahsoka was during the OT, Canon has been better at it, but Legends had Rahm Kota who survived both Force Unleashed games and appeared in one of the Battlefront spinoffs set afterwards and Qu Rahn made it through the entire Trilogy...
this happens a lot in stories with rare people groups, like the saiyans in Dragon Ball. From our perspective there are a ton of these guys running around because we see all these stories focusing on them, but when you start with thousands of Jedi, a few dozen survivors still gives us a very low survival rate.
@@jalapenoofjustice4682you’re also forgetting the saiyans multiplied. Goku, Vegeta, Nappa, Raditz, Paragus and Broly are the only canon survivors (even if you include Turles it’s still 7). The influx of saiyans is due to Goku and Vegeta having kids and the discovery of Universe 6. Whereas the jedi aren’t necessarily procreating and out of the survivors, not all of them are training apprentices. This means a lot more of them from our perspective survives order 66 and aren’t relaxing their numbers. We should be seeing less Jedi as they’re being hunted down, not more pop up.
I think you’re right saying the number would be small in universe but it cheapens order 66 if we see too many get away from the clones and it cheapens Luke being “the only hope”. Because “there is another” is meant to be referring to Leia not that there are literally 200 more people (some of which would’ve been more qualified) around the galaxy that could’ve been there to help
@@jalapenoofjustice4682100% like order 66 both in legends and canon has wiped out pretty much all of the knights what remains is hunted down and defeated by vader and his inquisition. A couple survivors all the way to the time of new republic isn’t that big of a deal. Most of Luke’s jedi order was made up of order 66 survivors in the old EU. I think what matters the most is the stories being told are good. Some people just get too hung up on minutia
This is how I view characters in media that survive impossible odds. It's not that they have plot armor, it's survivorship bias. We focus on the exceptional, and ignore the countless red shirts who died/failed unceremoniously.
They do explain Ashoka being missing, she had a force vision, that lead her to stay in hiding. As the force showed her that if she interfered, it would change the outcome and Luke would lose.
I hate when people complain about this. There were ~10,000 Jedi when Order 66 came down. Even if only 100 survived, we've only seen a handful of 'em.
yeah, I mean, 200 jedi survivors is quite alot, but its only a measly 2% out of a total of 10,000 jedi. and to my knowledge, in the legends timeline, out of all the jedi who survived order 66, much less of them survived the purge.
No, an order of that scale was bound to have so many survivors. On another note, having so many survive really makes Luke not "the last of the jedi". So it makes sense logically, in universe, but it really shatters some of the core dogmas of the original trilogy.
I mean we can just say that yoda was lying or withholding the truth like he and kenobi had done before, or more logically he simply didn’t know. There’s a lot of ways you can view that and it still makes sense. I wouldn’t get hung up on it. Ahsoka was no longer a Jedi, neither was Baylan. And Ezra was in an entirely different galaxy that I doubt yoda knew about. Doubt he much information on what was going on in the outside world. He doesn’t own a tv
@@lemonynoraor yoda couldnt sense anyone as they were resisting their use of the force thus yoda assume they wrre dead
It might be better to think of it as Luke being "the last hope of the Jedi." Many other Jedi survivors can live on and maybe train an apprentice or two in secret, but only Luke in that moment has the ability to neutralize Vader and defeat the Emperor, thus destroying the engine behind the Jedi hunts and allowing them to live openly again.
Tahiri Veila when?
Tahiri Veila when?
Picture this pitch for a new Star Wars story: A member of the Jedi Order has survived Order 66, but the Empire now rules the galaxy, and the former Jedi and their companions find themselves hunted by the Imperial Forces, even coming face to face with the fearsome Darth Vader and his elite team of Inquisitors.
That above sentence basically describes a huge chunk of the story of Kenobi, Cal and Kanan. So ultimately it is less about the number of survivors and more about the number of times that trope has been used.
Totally agree that Luke & Leia were the only people able to stop Darth Vader and the motivation from Yoda makes sense. The thing that's perplexing me is that it still seems to be Luke alone who is trying to re-start the Jedi after the Empire has fallen, even in Ahsoka in the back of my mind I was always asking myself "Why is Huyang still hanging out with Ahsoka when, as a youngling instructor, it seems like he would be incredibly helpful to Luke"?
I always thought and I wish they developed it more in the sequels that all the Jedi felt that the old order should have ended and remained peace with the rest of their lives and Luke was the only one who wanted to rebuild it even though everyone was telling him this was a bad idea and then he got to see how much of a bad idea that was.
Except we know very little so far about Luke's attempts to restart the Jedi Order in canon. All we really know is that he had started an academy some 20 years down the line, but Ben Solo destroyed it.
@@Compucles actually, we do know a bunch more thanks to the movies in force. Awakens Han Solo mentioned that he took the entire burden of a rebuilding the Jedi order by himself and his interactions with Yoda really implies how the surviving Jedi and the past Jedi view the current situation. So I wouldn't be surprised whether we see it on TV with Dave faloni's exports or if we see it in comics that everyone is telling him look. The Jedi order was a thing it fell apart. Let just something naturally grow from it and he's like I can't. I have to be like the super best. Jedi and subconsciously undo my father's legacy and build a new one with blackjack and hookers only to watch the whole thing fall exactly apart the same way the old one did. In fact, it's actually a great thematic parallel with emperor palpatine who himself being a sith and views himself as the culmination of all sith also can't let his empire and sith order die and thus literally tries the zombie resurrected only for it to blow up in his face. It's also a great way to show how the Jedi of the sith were cut from the same cloth and this is probably why they despise each other and ruined a lot of things.
@@jordanwhite352 I don't recall Han using the words "by himself."
"He was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice, turned against him. Destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible. He walked away from everything."
Although I don't remember it being stated, specifically, that he was "all alone" in rebuilding the Jedi Order, that's the sense I get from comics, books and other media. Even though he redeemed his father and helped destroy Emperor Palpatine, he fought with emotional strife that if anyone found out his father was Darth Vader, his life would be in ruin. It's hard to explain your way out of a situation where you know it's human nature to jump to the worst conclusions.
When people find out in the New Republic Galactic Senate that Leia was Vader's daughter around 30 ABY, it ruins her career. She has to fall back on being the leader of the New Republic Defense Council and become General Organa of the Resistance with her closest friends who know the whole truth.
A couple things to consider: Many Jedi were scattered across the galaxy, most in relation to the war effort, but that doesn't mean they all were actively fighting in large-scale operations. All the Jedi we see fall in Episode III and in other media since were working closely with Troopers and therefore caught by surprise. But that's not how Jedi usually operate: we often see our heroes in "The Clone Wars" series going off on their own or in their Master/Padawan pairs without anyone accompanying them. These Jedi were more likely to have had time to receive Obi-Wan's warning message and go into hiding. As much as too many Jedi surviving Order 66 may undermine Luke's importance as "The last of the Jedi", too few undermines Obi-Wan's efforts in taking time to send the warning message before fleeing the Jedi Temple. Luke's importance, if you read into the warning message a little more, isn't necessarily about being the only person left in the galaxy able to wield the Force effectively enough to defeat the Empire. Instead, it's about being the one who is able to bring together the survivors along with a new generation of Jedi, restoring the order as something new.
""This is Master Obi-Wan Kenobi. I regret to report that both our Jedi Order and the Republic have fallen, with the dark shadow of the Empire rising to take their place. This message is a warning and a reminder for any surviving Jedi: trust in the Force. Do not return to the Temple. That time has passed, and our future is uncertain. Avoid Coruscant. Avoid detection. Be secret... but be strong. We will each be challenged: our trust, our faith, our friendships. But we must persevere and, in time, I believe a new hope will emerge. May the Force be with you always.""
Not to mention all the Jedi who basically isolated themselves from the order and weren’t apart of the Clone Wars at all. Master Kirak Infil’a who took the Barosh Vow, for example
If you'd know who created the Vow, I could defenetly see, why someone would take it.
Honestly, it would have been incredibly odd if only 2 Jedi had survived 66. Otherwise, what was the point of the inquisitorius? There needed to be a sizeable number of Jedi that survived for that group to have any real merit. However, I do feel like we have reached a limit on how many Jedi we currently see or play as post 66. Anymore, and it will start to belittle the efforts of the empire and bring in to question wth all these jedi were doing.
I still think, as of now, there still are ways to justify Yoda’s line. For instance, Yoda may have known of Ahsoka’s and Baylan Skoll’s survival, but what he is saying to Luke is that “you are the last one who will actively carry on the Jedi tradition.” Baylan and Ahsoka have walked away from the Jedi teachings, Grogu is obviously too young to pass on the Jedi ways. Ezra is lost in parts unknown beyond Yoda’s vision. We have yet to see the rest of Cal’s story and the other members of The Path. Maybe their survival into the end of the Galactic Civil War will complicate Yoda’s line further, but I still think Yoda’s line holds up by referring to those who will carry on and pass on the Jedi tradition, not just survivors who used to be Jedi.
I imagine if Cal has survived to the "present day" Mandalorean era, his Jedi training would be mixing with Merrin's Nightsister training as a means of survival. Those on The Path could incorporate other Force Sensitive groups other than just the Jedi, and there may be a blending of ideologies and teaching from that line of survivors. So they won't be "Jedi" but they could be formidable.
So many of these survivors had to close themselves off from the force to survive so is it totally absurd to think Yoda did not know they were alive because he could no longer sense them through the force?
I don't mind learning of new survivors from the Jedi Order, the only question that gives me pause, as you said, is "what were they doing when the rebellion needed help?" because that's always the annoying catch, it's the question that always needs some kind of answer, even if it's just "the character chose to not get involved because they wanted to be safe".
Even if you look at it from a percentage standpoint, there were what 10,000 Jedi at the height of the galactic republic. We’ve seen less than 20 Jedi out of that 10k that’s less than 1%. It does however as you said raise questions about were some of them were during some of these events. Overall I’m cool with it especially if we’re introduced to characters like Baylon and Shin.
100% what matters most is if the stories and characters are good. I love lord Baylan and hope we get more of his backstory
@@lemonynora Agreed 💯
This is why I'm always iffy about prequels. Every time they introduce something new my first question is "why weren't they in the original?".
@@jxchamb I meant for all franchises in general
We need more Jedi survivors to come back when I watch Obi-Wan Kenobi TV show approved and confirms that Quinlan vos survive and he was giving young links, new identities. I’m sure in ahsoka he would be in his 50s or 60s and Cal kestis in his 30s and also mace windu am I still be alive? The actor Jackson wants to come back
I think the reason we ask this question is because most stories are always about the force users and so even if they only have 14 survivors if they go in depth into 14 stories it kinda dulls the effect order 66 was supposed to have
It always seemed logical to me that a few dozen or a few hundred Jedi survived, after all, they were scattered throughout the galaxy. Let's assume there were 10,000 Jedi (which is still a very small number compared to the size of the galaxy) and Order 66 was 99% effective. In this case, 100 survived. The problem is not that so many Jedi survived, but that they all survived ON SCREEN. They don't have to show us so many Jedi on screen, let them leave it to our guesses and imagination.
In the kenobi show they leave it to our imagination with the path.
Fun little fact. The Jedi were about as rare in the galaxy as Barrack Obama is on earth. Like, ten thousand people in the galaxy as jedi made them as rare as any specific person on earth is.
Yes, and not that many have actually had on screen stories compared to the possibility of 100 total survivors.
I wonder if the issue "really is" that the Prequels didn't make it "feel like" there were that many Jedi.
Even with The Clone Wars cartoons, how many Jedi did we EVER see?
I bet, including Younglings and background-only Jedi we never "see" more than 200, maybe even not 100 . And like on Naboo or other worlds we don't get "the idea" that every planet has it's "assigned Jedi" etc.
So even if we're "told" there are 10,000 Jedi in the galaxy it never felt like it
I think the only scene that captured a bit of the scale of the order was the Arena Battle in Episode II. For an animated series, I can understand why it would be difficult to convey so many Jedi, since you’d have to make character models for each one. For the Arena Battle, they could just dress up the film crew as Jedi, record them doing some basic stuff, and plaster them into the scene with CGI.
Yeah but they never show all the clone legions with their accompanying Jedi generals and commanders. Mainly portrayed the council.
There are millions of inhabited world and barely 10,000 Jedi. Certainly nowhere remotely close to a Jedi per planet. Some entire populated planets probably haven't seen a single Jedi in centuries or longer.
@@Candlemancer it was an example of ways they could have made it feel like there were more than 40 Jedi in the entire order
The Jedi had 10,000 members so a few hundred surviving is reasonable especially as so many were so skilled and powerful.
In George's vision its 100,000 members.
@@StuartLugsden In which case, if 1% survived, there would still be 1,000 surviving Jedi, lol 😅! 14+ is a complete non-issue.
Well, around 10,000 at its height. The Clone Wars and the events leading up to it had already killed many of them off.
Even if it isn't a problem for me that there are some Jedi to be "discovered" yet but I really wish for more SW stories taking place before Order 66 instead of after.
Obi-Wan: That boy is our last hope.
Yoda: No. There is another...and another...and another...
In canon over 100 survived that that includes Anakin, all those that became Inquisitors and all those that walked away beforehand. 100+ is a fraction of a school body. Thats not a bad number. Also many could easily stop being a Jedi and just live out their lives as normal people.
I used to be in the camp of "too many Jedi survived" Order 66. However, as I grew older and began to understand the sheer scale of a galaxy: 100 really isn't too many. Honestly, you could realistically bump that number up into 500 and it'd still not be many people for an entire galaxy (not that I'm suggesting this).
Realistically, no, there aren't too many Jedi survivors. It just feels like it because of course they are going to tell the stories of any surviving Jedi. Although I am curious if the current Stat Wars canon has surpassed the number of surviving Jedi in the EU canon.
I don't think any other survivors undercut Luke's story since he was the one who stepped up.
This was a good aspect of Andor because it made a compelling story and did not have to resort to adding more Jedi (though I do hold out that Luthen will be revealed as one).
I really hope Luthrens not a Jedi and just a collector of trinkets. But you could be right. Either way it’s not such a big deal and I think he’ll probably die in season 2 as he’s not in rogue one.
@@lemonynora Yeah I suspect he will die. There was one scene when he was being searched by Saw's guys and they held up a suspiciously lightsaber looking device that he told them to give back. I think he'll probably die fighting off some people so the rest of them can escape at some point.
That last sentence is such a SW fan thing to say 😂
No, Luke was the last of the jedi in Yoda's eyes - trained by a master in the old ways. The other survivors were padawans and deserters. Don't forget about Quinlan Vos! Would love a story about him after the purge
You didn't mention that Obi-Wan (an Order 66 survivor himself) says in ANH that Vader helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights, thus already implying survivors of Order 66. And then he says the Jedi are all but extinct. He doesn't say there's only me and Yoda left, and you, Luke, if you decide to become a Jedi.
No and i like that the kelleren beq flashback even leaves room for jedi within the order that prepared for the fall of the order
I’ve been saying it for a while so I will say it again
Even if order 66 got 99.9 percent of the order that would have still left around 100.
I'm glad we're asking this question. It makes you wonder why the Jedi survivors didn't have a bigger impact on the Civil War
Definitely not to many, there were 10,000 Jedi before order 66 and bearing in mind these are JEDI you could argue not enough survived, as far as Yoda is concerned he’s hardly infallible and could just simply have been wrong
Not aware that he or any other Jedi could sense every (or any) other Jedi or force user across an entire galaxy. They can't even sense them on the same planet or sometimes in the same room. For all Yoda knew they might have been the last.
I think there’s two sides of this question. I’m fine with reaching that theoretical number of 100 survivors during the main part of the reign of the Empire. Where it gets more challenging for me is if too many start popping up during and after the Galactic Civil War.
Thank you for this video.
10,000 jedi in the Order. And having more than 20 jedi survive still makes it drastically a low number.
Shouldn't be that big of a Deal.
Its not just that line that Yoda says... but if I remember correctly, Tarkin also says to Vader that he is last one of his order. Of course Empire would probably not know about all Jedi survivors, but let say that their list would be pretty accurate.
Tarkin considered Kanan a wannabe Jedi at best. Being an elitist, I imagine he didn't consider anyone who wasn't a Knight to be a "Jedi", just someone playing at being a Jedi.
I mean, that's around 0.14% of the pre-Clone Wars estimate. It hasn't bothered me at all introducing new survivors because of course there would be more than just Yoda and Obi-Wan in the entire galaxy. What's more contentious to the canon is the fact that so many of them stuck to the Jedi way (Ahsoka, Kanan, Cal, Cere, etc.). I'd love to see survivors who stopped being Jedi, like Baylan, or ones that cut themselves from the force altogether, becoming regular civilians. That seems more realistic and in line with Yoda's version of events.
Many might have survived Order 66 and the initial Inquisitor hunting, but by the time we get to A New Hope, there are even less. By ANH, we have Ahsoka, Baylon, Yoda, and Obi-Wan. Do we know of any others?
The line is sort of still accurate. Most Order 66 survivors like Obi-wan Kenobi and Kanan Jarrus still died before that point. Ahsoka walked away from the Order. Others like Reva (even after being redeemed) and Baylan Skoll no longer follow the Jedi ways. Ezra Bridger was stuck in another galaxy, it hasn't been confirmed if Cal Kestus survived that long, and the two of them were technically only Padawans, anyway. We also have no idea how long Quinlan Vos survived.
Overall, that's still more accurate than the line turned out to be in Legends.
2:13 All the justification that comes before this timestamp is worthy of note. We can all mostly agree with this take after the reference, but then we get their stories. The context and exposition make *Star Wars* more interesting, and how they interact with others, whether the Jedi or regular people we know of out of the trillions in the galaxy, feels grander than the limitations movies have. They widen our viewpoint and give us a different perspective than those who only watch the *Star Wars* movies.
I think what is most important is that Palpatine's purge shattered the Jedi Order as an organization. Yeah, maybe a few dozen of its former members are alive and trying to teach one or two students, but the big line of institutional knowledge is gone, and their influence on galactic affairs is greatly reduced. Canon Luke proves unable to restart a large organization even 30 years after Palpatine's first death.
For a real-world comparison, most things that we label as genocides do not actually kill 100% of the targeted people. The point is that the perpetrators tried, and often inflicted large (but rarely 99%) casualties that permanently affect the group going forward.
Canon Luke being unable to restart the Order is why there's so many hate for 66 survivors in the first place. They keep eroding Luke's status. If they bolstered Luke instead of making him irrelevant there wouldn't be any complaints.
I mean Legends was objectively worse in this regard, as it had multiple surviving fully trained Jedi fighting for the Rebel Alliance, who Luke knew personally [Some of them also knew who Luke's father was and that he became Vader but also just never told him]
Who knew about Vader?
Yeah Star Wars Legends had the same issue. The real question is what have the survivors been doing since order 66.
We also really only know how many were alive around the first season of Rebels. Kenobi and the Jedi games all take place before then and there is a lull of information about living jedi between Kanan's passing and after the battle of Endor/ Jakku. As long as there isnt some mini jedi order of like, 30 survivors just hanging out in some hidden part of the galaxy im fine with 50-100 being scattered across the massive galaxy. Its much more tragic with them all having lost communication and having no central location/ temple to commune at anymore so even if there was 100 survivors by the time of ANH, there's a near zero chance any have seen one or more Jedi alive in that twenty years. The fact that Ahsoka and Kanan or Cal, Eno, and Cere were together so long seems to be an anomaly.
There were 138 survivors in Legends. There are about 23 in canon.
Its more around 76 in legends and 58 in canon. Alot of people count sources like west end rpgs which feels like cheating.
@@Mal-sg6zchow you got 58?
@@user-yq9im9dk9z my friend made a spread sheet with all the surviving jedi characters in canon. I went through and independently verified each removed some if they were from table top games and ya… 58
To be honest, I'm surprised Yoda didn't consider the fact that there would be many more survivors. In legends, there were lots of Jedi like Rahm Kota who either hated the war or distrusted the clones and as a result, either refused to take part or refused to work with clones. And in both Canon and Legends its been established that there were Jedi who were away from the Temple on non-war related business. I think when Yoda says "the last of the Jedi" to Luke, he means Luke will be the last Jedi who is still 100% behind the Jedi way. There were likely lots of Jedi survivors of Order 66 who either gave up their force abilities or strayed from the Jedi code without necessarily falling to the dark side
I don't mind the amount of Jedi, but what is frustrating is that, due to the way we have to write new stories/sequels/etc., each new survivor has to be stronger and smarter and cooler than the last.
The number we have now is not an issue. Though having a hundred survivors would be a bit much as it would reduce the significance of those we currently have.
What I do think is an issue is those we have stories for mostly all survive right through to the Empire's fall and beyond. I want to see a story about a Jedi that survived Order 66, but fell before the Empire did, more noble sacrifices to balance out all the convenient survivors.
Kanan's death was one of the most impactful in Star Wars, and he has a strong legacy and he was a great character. I want to know about more Kanans.
The problem is not the number of survivors, but, the number of Jedis we see in the precuel era in media, I don't know the number exactly, but I'm sure the % related to "Surviving Jedi" from "Jedi we the audience see in the precuel era" is much much much more, and so, while logically it's fine, emotionally is another story entirely.
I'd like to move on to other points in time. Also, the sequels would've been awesome if they had room for surviving jedi to join instead of just burning it all down again...
I would love to see a video about all the force users, Jedi, dark Jedi, sith around after the fall of the empire so during the Ahsoka series timeline wise.
I don't think there are to many jedi that survive i think a few Hundred is reasonable
I think the issue is we know about one dozen survivors and we only really know a few dozen of the 10,000 Jedi. If we knew lots about hundreds of Jedi from the clone wars, I think we would be less to think twice about "another survivor?!"
I think Kanan said it best “there where 10,000 Jedi defending the galaxy” and its impossible for someone like Yoda and Obi Wan to keep track of.
When I first heard that line when I was two I remember bumping on the "last of the Jedi" line not being "the last Jedi." Especially after Return of the Jedi when Anakin had a death bed conversion back to the Jedi. By that account Anakin was the last Jedi.
Been saying this for longer than there has been an Order 66. Was a problem with the old novels too. They learned nothing from the weaknesses of the old EU.
I understand what everyone says about this topic, but it will legitimately always bug me. It’s like every time they add a new survivor, Yoda’s words carry even less and less weight, especially when there are pretty important ones out that not contributing lol
I think when you consider the sequels and the fact that Luke was starting up a new jedi order no one else was around to assist him... that doesn't make a lot of sense if so many survived, and leads me to believe Ahsoka will probably die soon because she really has no excuse... but then again, neither does Sabine or Ezra.
I’ve always taken it as Luke is the last Jedi that still follows the old teachings. And that Luke will take the failures and build on that to make a better version.
Flashbacks to the original trilogy era in Ahsoka would have been so dope man.
IMO any that die before A new hope cause no issues at all. we could have hundreds that get hunted down by the inquisition and not break anything.
eg Kannan is entirely fine
I think there’s to many survivors. The fixation on details of different survivors suffocates the larger mythology that Star Wars was a vehicle for. Luke Skywalker being the only Jedi we knew about back then held so much more weight to the story, now it’s undercut by having Jedi like Ashoka exist, which now I can’t watch return of the Jedi without thinking where she was during this conflict, it sucks.
I think the Jedi didn’t gather together and rise up against the Empire because of their small number and also because they didn’t know about each other’s survival since they were focused on staying alive.
The way I read what Yoda said to Luke, Yoda meant _explicitly_ Force users found and trained by members of the Jedi Order _as Yoda knew it._ There’s nothing saying Yoda _didn't_ harbor some form of prejudice against Force traditions that weren't the Jedi Order, to my knowledge, and the Jedi Order _loves_ to tell the truth _from a certain point of view._
The Star Wars galaxy is a galaxy. The thought that only 100-150 jedi survived is ludicrous. It assumes that the empire was powerful enough to wipe out all of the jedi. As storm troopers can't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside, it seems like more jedi would have survived.
Yeah I'm with you Alex.
Logically...no, too many jedi haven't survived Order-66. But emotionally....yes it's starting to feel like there's too many.
I’d say it’s ok because there were tens of thousands of Jedi and even if it seems like a lot, it isn’t really in the scheme of the tens of thousands of Jedi that existed during the times of the old republic
They had tens of thousands of Jedi in the order with even more of them being younglings. There are bound to be a few dozen or even hundreds of Jedi left.
Obviously there will be survivors, but the problem is, at least for me, we see too many survivors in ALMOST EVERY NEW PROJECT. Theres so many other stories to tell and it definitely undermines luke since the survivors could have helped during the OT but are written to explain why they couldnt help the rebels
Revas was the most unrealistic character that makes no sense to how Vader reacts to inquisitors let alone traitors..also how in disney are lightsabers not affecting anyone when stabbed?
Seeing each of these survivors is still not that many. There are only a handful of Jedi survivors that have been portrayed on screen with maybe a dozen that have survived in the books and comics.
Please do a Sabine Wren timeline! From her Mandalorian past to her Jedi present.
I think Yoda meant that Luke would be the last well trained, fully enthralled and best representation of what means to be a Jedi. I'm not saying that Yoda thought less of the remaining ones or considered them Bokken Jedi, like Baylan did, but how many were knighted before order 66? And those who were, most probably none made it up to ROTJ. You included Kellerann Beq, but we don't know what happened to him. And even Baylan, I don't know how old he was, but could have been a padawan too.
I think the Yoda line is from before Lucas ever really fleshed out the time before the Empire, and then even he was like ummm not realistic if I wanna actually explore that time period for Anakin. I almost feel that the more we learn about the survivors and why they were not involved in the galaxy, and even why they shouldn't be considered Jedi, it kinda helps the realism as the number of unaccounted for survivors dwindles.
However, I think we are getting too much focus on the survivors too quickly, so that every story there feels like yet another survivor. Cause in the scheme of the things, most of the star wars media includes jedi survivors or other force sensitives who escaped the purge/project harvester.
The answer is no. Plain and simple. This is all assuming Yoda *knew* that Ahsoka, Ezra, possibly Cal, etc., were still alive at the time of ROTJ and most likely, he didn't. He was in complete isolation on Dagobah and seems to be only able to reach Jedi if they continue to walk the path of the Force or enter a Temple like we see on Lothal in Rebels or some other factor so he likely didn't know of anyone else besides Obi-Wan, Kanan, Ahsoka and Ezra still being alive. Most others who might have still been alive may have quit the Jedi way in order to stay hidden.
He does communicate with Kanan, Ahsoka and Ezra in Rebels S2 but then Kanan does die while Ahsoka is lost on Malachor and Ezra is in a *completely other galaxy* dealing with Thrawn so Yoda probably thought them both to have been killed after he spoke with them. So to the best of Yoda's knowledge, at the time of his death, he and Luke are the only Jedi left in the galaxy. Yoda isn't reciting a perfect history to Luke on his deathbed or checking his facts on Wookieepedia before he passes away, he's just talking to Luke, trying to encourage him. This is a trap many fall into on a lot of topics, the characters don't always know what WE know as the audience. WE know there are more Force users out there but Yoda and Luke do not so it takes away nothing from that scene or ROTJ as a whole, even if, at the time, the exact implication was that Luke would be the only one left. It's just been recontextualised like so many things in Star Wars over the years. The characters in ROTJ believe Luke is the last of the Jedi so the emotional stakes still stand.
So far, there are roughly around 40 or so Jedi who fought in the Clone Wars still alive after Order 66 (not counting the Inquisitors). That's a 0.4% survival rate! Less than 1%. Sidious knew his plan wouldn't get ALL of them so that's why he set up the Inquisitorious. They need something to do during the reign of the Empire to keep them busy. And many of those survivors were killed in the subsequent hunt by Vader or Inquisitors, dwindling down those numbers to 15 or so so the plan was *more* than successful.
I'd love to see K'kruhk and his Hawkbat Clan in live action.
I feel it conflicts what obi wan said, now the Jedi are all but extinct
When Yoda says that line the only Jedi that we know is alive and around within the home galaxy is Ahsoka and she isn't technically a Jedi from her POV which tracks with both Yoda and Obi-Wans logic
About "where was xxx during the war against the empire?" - this war was not fought on only one front. And even though some battles were more important than others, not everyone we know could be at just this battle. And not everyone knew about it. Saw Guerera mentioned lots of rebel cells, and some of them may still have existed independently after most of the rebels united under Mon Mothma.Even if there are 100 Jedi still alive at the time of the battle of Endor, most of them were old (Obi Wan looked quite old), so they may not be able to fight as efficiently as a young person anymore. I'm 59, I have arthrosis and other age-related illnesses, and even though none of them are crippling (yet), I don't think I would last 5 minutes on a battlefield.
Funny how 1:15 is what happened in Legends
Obviously there would be quite a few survivors and yes there are so important that even one more of them changes things...
What's annoying about this question is more the yoda line and "The Last Jedi" as a whole. Yoda could be excused by being a depressed lonely hermit on a backwater but Luke not having found any of the survivors in the +20 years between ep 6 and 7 or worse have them all die by -DarthCaedus- Kylo Ren is why each time a new Jedi comes from out the bushes is so aggravating.
Apart from being a realistic amount of survivors, there is also an argument to be said for what exactly Yoda meant by Jedi in the context of that scene. After all someone like Ahsoka who does not call herself as a Jedi and is not an official member of the Order might not count as a Jedi for that.
My guess is that at that moment in time, when Yoda told Luke that he was the last of the Jedi, he meant that he was the only one that kept to the teachings and morals of the Jedi at their best.
The only reason I agree with you about the number of surviving Jedi getting as high as 100 is because we don't need that many. Even doubling the number to ~30 would open up multitudes in terms of storytelling and I'd rather we get great stories than simply just more characters
I think the biggest thing to remember is that while plenty of Jedi survive well until the reign of the empire, the longest surviving ones renounce their roles as Jedi. Baylan became a mercenary, not a Jedi. Those two survivors who live into the sequel era became bounty hunters. Even Ahsoka -who admittedly was MIA for the war and was unaccounted for at the time of Yoda saying that line to Luke, was no longer a Jedi. Being a Jedi is a religion, it's a set of creeds and codes that dictate how you live your life. Just because you have super powers doesn't automatically make you a Jedi. Since Luke is the last Jedi to actively call himself a Jedi/practice the Jedi religion, Yoda's line is technically true, no matter how many former Jedi there are
The Jedi once numbered in the thousands. Now there's less than 30 that we know of.
That's less than 1%. That's not too many.
Also do you think ahsoka and kenobi will meet after order 66 in a tv show or else
I think people forget that we are talking about a genocide here. Yes, it may be fictional, but it is still a genocide. The way people argue over how "effective" it was make my skin crawl. This was literally 10,000 people being betrayed and murder en mass by their closest allies. If there is an amount of survivors that makes you not care anymore, or makes you feel like the emotional weight or the drama was less impactful, then that's sad to me. This rant isn't aimed at anyone in particular, just frustrating.
It's a narrative plot point with weight that gets stripped away, not a real genocide
There were (give or take) 10,000 Jedi KNIGHTS, specificially, by the way. Plus 12 Masters, and potentially also up to 10,000 padawans with varying levels of training. As an example, half of the people in your thumbnail aren't one of the 10,000 Knights. Cal, Grogu, and Reva were padawans, Yoda was a Master, and Ahsoka had left the Order.
Honestly, anywhere up to 5% of a highly trained and Force-assisted militant order surviving assault by a wildly varying number of clone troopers and going into hiding to escape their pursuers is actually kinda reasonable. Especially considering the Force gives them a supernatural sense of danger. And if we're talking realism, there's no realistic way that at the time Order 66 was issued, all 10,000 Knights and padawans were all surrounded by enough clone troopers to overwhelm them. Some were asleep, some were with just one, most would have been able to put up a fight against a few.
Fact is, the Purge wasn't the death of all Jedi, it was the destruction of the Order, their ability to act as Jedi, their ability to train new Jedi. If a Jedi is in hiding, if they've abandoned each other and their Order, if they're too busy surviving to help those in need, are they really Jedi anymore?
You didn't mention the Hidden Path, who helped Jedi survivors and other Force sensitives hide from the Empire, there be more out there we don't know about.
Ok... let's say there were 100 Jedi survivors - of that number how many would fight on as we have see so far... and how many would just start new lives outside the order? I would think out of 100, a percentage would choose NOT to continue the way of the Jedi. I think that makes the know number of Jedi we have now makes sense.
Yes you can go into the math of it all to justify it, but it wasn't until TODAY that I learned that Lucas originally planned 50+ Jedi to have survived The Jedi Purge. All my life, 37 years, I thought that Yoda was being honest and accurate in saying that Luke would be the last, and that if Luke fails they have to start over by making Leia the last. Why choose Leia if they had 50 other Jedi they could choose from?
I actually like that we keep discovering new survivors. Not too many, but the Empire from the beginning was corrupt and not especially efficient, so it should have been possible to avoid detection. The problem is suppressing all of the telltale giveaways of a Jedi - selflessness and an inability to just stand by and not help.
It's not that cut and dry though. Some would likely completely abandon the path and teaching, and would not be recognizable as Jedi when Yoda spoke to Luke. I wouldn't count those as surviving.
Younglings, especially those that hadn't become Padawans yet would likely be able to assimilate more easily, and with the Galaxy being so large, it should have been easy to spread out and away from most places the Empire would look.
Now Jedi that managed to maintain their training and skills would be harder to hide of course, but they could do so by turning to piracy or smuggling, or working for one of the many corporations that supplied the Empire. It's fun to think that Stormtrooper helmets provide such poor visibility because a Jedi made sure of it.