Legends Within Legends | The False History of Rohan
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- čas přidán 6. 06. 2024
- Did the Men of Rohan descend from the legendary House of Hador, the Third of the Houses of the Edain in the First Age? This video explores why there are multiple answers to this question and why Tolkien created a false history within the Legendarium, created for cultural and political reasons.
► Chapters:
0:00 - Introduction
1:22 - Of Rohan: Myth & Politics
2:45 - Faramir and the Lore of Gondor
5:45 - The Northmen
8:40 - The Founding of Rohan
12:37 - Blood Feuds & Lesser Men
15:06 - Ulterior Motives
18:07 - Legends Within Legends
20:00 - Artist Credits/Outro
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► On-Screen Notes:
1. • The Middle Men | Tolki...
2. LotR - TTT - Bk. 4 - Ch. 5 - The Window on the West
3. LotR - TTT - Bk. 4 - Ch. 5 - The Window on the West
4. LotR - TTT - Bk. 4 - Ch. 5 - The Window on the West
5. TS - Ch. 24 - Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath
6. UT - Pt. 3 - The Third Age - The Northmen and the Wainriders
7. UT - Pt. 3 - The Third Age - The Northmen and the Wainriders (Note 4)
8. LotR - App. A - Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion
9. LotR - App. A - Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion
10. UT - Pt. 3 - Cirion and Eorl
11. LotR - App. A - Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion
12. UT - Pt. 3 - Cirion and Eorl
13. LotR - App. A - Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion
14. HoMe XII - Of Dwarves and Men
15. HoMe XII - Of Dwarves and Men
► Artwork:
All artists, images, and links to sources are found by following the link below. If you would like to see your artwork appear in videos or discuss the use of your artwork on the channel, please get in touch.
(CORRECTION - Artwork listed as "Power of Command" by Borja Pindado is actually "Rohan Victory")
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
► Thumbnail art :
Rohan Victor - Borja Pindado (artstation.com/borjap)
► Audio:
The following music was used for this media project:
Music: Horizon Flare by Alexander Nakarada
Link: filmmusic.io/song/4837-horizo...
License: filmmusic.io/standard-license
Music: Gregorian Chant by Kevin MacLeod
Free download: filmmusic.io/song/3825-gregor...
Licensed under CC BY 4.0: filmmusic.io/standard-license
Music: Deep Ocean 2 by Frank Schroeter
Free download: filmmusic.io/song/7730-deep-o...
Licensed under CC BY 4.0: filmmusic.io/standard-license
Music: The End by Alexander Nakarada
Free download: filmmusic.io/song/4859-the-end
Licensed under CC BY 4.0: filmmusic.io/standard-license
Music: Voice Of An Angel One by Alexander Nakarada
Free download: filmmusic.io/song/7036-voice-...
Licensed under CC BY 4.0: filmmusic.io/standard-license
Music: Horizon Flare by Alexander Nakarada
Free download: filmmusic.io/song/4837-horizo...
Licensed under CC BY 4.0: filmmusic.io/standard-license
► Disclaimer:
All videos are the result of my own research into the works of Tolkien unless otherwise stated. I do not claim rights to any audiobooks, music, or artwork used. All scripts and editing are my own work. Permission has been requested from all copyright holders.
#tolkien #rohan #legendarium #lotr #gondor #numenor - Zábava
"this is where politics and, unfortunately, bigotry and prejudice come into play. Those are some buzz words to get the Tolkien Society 'scholars' salivating" . This made me almost spit out my coffee 😂
They'd be salivating if they ever watched my videos :D . They don't though!
@@TheRedBook Your problem, I think, is that your videos are entirely too filled with actual scholarship and.....I shudder to write this.....original thought.
The red book library at the start is a great work of art. Really cool way to start the video.
Love learning more about the rohirrim. Feel they aren’t explored as in depth as other races on many channels.
I can feel the magic of the legendarium. Well done.
This makes a lot of sense, especially given Tolkien's background as a scholar of medieval history where legends like this were quite common (like the welsh and norwegians linking themselves to the Trojans or the Irish to the greeks) as a way to lay claim to a prestigious Mediterranean history. Or later in history how the aristocracy of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth liked to claim they were not actually slavs and balts like the rest of the population, but the descendants of Sarmatians or Alans (which had no basis in fact)
Finally! I’ve waited far too long for another Red Book video!
This raises a bigger question: how much of the Silmarillion was distorted and altered by mannish myths and Numenorian misunderstandings?
Probably not a great deal as it was an elven account transcribed.
Probably the other way about. It is really "distorted" by the knowledge of the Elves, which explains their misunderstanding of Men. The idea of the Numenorean misunderstandings and myths was really something Tolkien was going to develop further as laid out in Myths Transformed. The idea of the flat earth becoming round, when the sun first arose, etc. That was all going to be changed with previous versions basically being considered Mannish myths.
Honestly, listening to your vids is more than a pleasure. The way U pronounce the names is utterly like honey to the ears, the proper rolled r, ah, music!
Support The Red Book on Patreon: www.patreon.com/theredbook
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Well done on many fronts! I liked the 1st artwork of the Red Book and the cozy library/fireplace. Maybe that should be your intro page from here on, with you yourself included as a scholar deep in thought, haha!
And a good job on explaining the bigotry of Gondor as well as how tales work within tales!
This is a fascinating topic, one which I hadn't given enough thought. Thank you for all this information so that we may see things clearly in the legendarium.
This feels like the sort of "What is Aragon's tax policy" stuff that George R.R. Martin would have loved. Though done in an extremely Tolkien way. Like gosh that felt like some extremely realistic power politics.
Love Rohan, they've always been my favourite partie of the Legendarium, their honour, Northern Courage & battle-joy always felt appropriate somehow and amongst the most well-developed concepts of Tolkien's Legendarium. Brilliant work as always Steven, your knowledge and analysis are always such an inspiration.
I have to ask, where does Rohan rank as far as your favourite kingdoms of the Three Ages go? And which one is your favourite?
My favorite is The Noldor of the first age.
I would think then, that having elevated the Éothéod to "equal status" with the Men of Gondor in order to justify the "loss" of Calenardhon, these same folk would then find it difficult to object to various ways in which the two peoples might mingle, up to and including intermarriage. Still, I like to think that some of the House of Hador end up among the peoples who would eventually become the Éothéod.
I've been waiting for another video from you.Great job,thank you!
Was eagerly waiting for your video @redbook 💜💜💜
"When legend becometh fact, print ye legend." - Gondorian proverb(?)
I think this is my favorite video of yours so far
I was actually planning to reread Of Dwarves and Men again soon and now you’re spoiling it 😂.
Very well done, and an excellent choice for a topic. Thank you.
Such a fantastic Tolkien channel.
This is excellent content. Thank you!
Very interesting man 👍
Is the Tom Bombadil episode still on its way?
Yes, still writing that out.
@@TheRedBook Awesome!
This is a particularly cool analysis. It gets into nuances I never knew about and probably would never consider
⚡Too kind :D
Excellent narration ⭐⭐⭐⭐
Amazing visuals ❤
Thank you, Steven, for the great deep dive into the mythology surrounding Rohan. You totally convinced me that it was a political decision made after Cirion was gone. I think he would've been shocked to hear his descendants talking about the origin of the North men which never heard about or knew about, an origin the Rohirrim themselves never claimed. Alas! They are but Middle Men.😢
Eagerly waiting ☺️☺️☺️☺️😊
Fascinating. Thank you.
great stuff Steven, i completely agre it is the depth provided by the stories with in the stories which make the legendarium so wonderful. If i knew more of the cats of queen Beruthiel, if it was possible to know more i could not be more fascinated, only less. thanks.
Creepy creatures.😼
Love your analyzes !
Thank you to my biggest fan on CZcams!
@@TheRedBook you are the best channel about Tolkien on YT ,and the reason I began to dig deeper into HoMe 💜
Good old Calenardhon.
The content I crave
Thank you so much ❤️
When it comes to the word myth and definitions I accept and embrace Tolkien's 'Mythopia' (sp? )as his explanation of the same.
I think it’s also suggested in the war of the jewels that the northmen could have been related to the people of Bor, the faithful Easterling. His people’s descendants that remained in Eriador and didn’t cross the blue mountains.
I think I talk a little about that in one of my Trilogy videos, those good Easterlings who fought against Morgoth. Mentioned in passing at least...
While that is a worthy idea, I would pause to believe it, because Tolkien described the Easterlings as "swarthy" meaning they had dark hair and probably a darker skin shade than the descendants of Eorl. That isnt to say that they couldnt have intermarried and down through the years become a more fair haired race, but I would think the descendants of Bor were probably just the normal humans, outside those that came from Numenor, that dwelled in the West of Middle Earth at the time of the books.
@@lnwolf7563 some of the men of Hador most likely akin to the northmen who stayed in Eriador were described as having dark hair at least. Tolkien ultimately never fleshed out the specifics.
@@Picopunk3 That is a fair point.
Gotta say that new intro had its intended impressive effect 👍🏼 It bestows an atmosphere befitting of discussing mythology. By the way, it seems like my CZcams alias Crafty Spirit is sometimes replaced by my google alias in the comment section 😅😅
Yeah, I'm happy with the intro but didn't want to get rid of the old one. I now have two intros for videos :D .
I think that's something to do with the recent handles update. I'm noticing it with quite a few users.
@@TheRedBook An intro for an intro... and regarding my username, I made this other alias when I was like 15 and the internet still young... you can hear fellow Tolkien youtuber Darth Gandalf trying not to laugh when he reads out my username in his Q&A - it's the final or penultimate question in said video, I am still compelled by the whole lightning affair in Númenor's dark hour
@@TheRedBook I also wanted to mention something regarding the topic of historical revisionism within Middle-Earth. Tolkien wrote somewhere that many if not most of the inhabitants of Rohan's West March are of mixed descent and that there was more (consentual, positive I assume) mixing between Éothéod and Dunlendings that either side would like to admit - for political reasons.
Also, the video tempts me to slander about Fram. I feel like there is a darker side to him than people are led to believe. He must have already seem like a larger than life figure by the Third Age, remembered with certain distortions.
Well Done.
I don't really know anything about the Tolkien Society, but I think the way Tolkien explores bigotry in the mythology is excellent. It really is woven very deeply and causes so many issues for the different peoples of Arda. There are definitely some things that go noticeably unquestioned by Tolkien from a modern lens, but if anything that serves to put more historical context on the work and somehow makes it feel more ancient and timeless.
I’d love to see a video exploring fading of the elves. Do they fade in Aman? When would Cirdan have faded if he never left ME? If a ME elf had a child in the late third age, would not that child have much longer to live on ME before fading? If so, why could elves sustain a population in ME indefinitely, just living a few thousand years, having kids, then sailing off when they’re time comes…. Thanks!
Thank you
so much words just to recognize this:
Northmen are descendents from the men of the house of HADOR that DIDN'T chose to cross to Beleriand, period!
makes sense, since they were the numerous house of the 3, some of them chose to stay behind!
You missed the point of the video. I'm not just summarising Tolkien Gateway here.
@@TheRedBook I understood bro, and I agree with u as always, specially in the matter of giving Calenardhon to them... just wanted to say my opinion about their Origins, thats all... love your videos ;)
Cheers mate
15:18 That map is sexy
Yeah I like the regular map (which I use a lot) but I put some effects on it while editing and it made it look pretty cool as a black map with the outlines. I'll probably use it like this from now on.
I think they are decendant of both. There most have been those who refused the call to numenor. They probably mixed with those who didnt go to beladrian.
Is that a painting of you above the mantlepiece Steven? 😂
Apparently not. I'm told its a possible ancestor😅
😍😍😍💕👌
Hola
espero que estés bien"