How I fixed my BIGGEST ISSUE with Minecraft (with Datapacks/Plugins)
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- čas přidán 18. 06. 2024
- Today, we tackle what is my personal biggest issue with Minecraft; the progression from wooden tools to iron tools. It is far too quick and can make repeat playthroughs unchallenging, repetitive and boring. So... I'm gonna change that.
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Hey there! Thanks for watching this video! I’d love to hear some feedback here in the comments! The server is actively being worked on and Id love to hear your ideas!
Also, I’d like to take a moment to point out the criticism that the title of this video is clickbait because I “used mods” to make this. I did not. I used a plugin and my own datapack. A plugin is not a mod as it is server side, not client side. There are no modifications happening client side. This is done so that anyone can enjoy the server without having to install any mods.
So, if the semantics of mods vs plugin vs datapacks really bothers you, then I’m sorry. If the title was clickbait, I would have said “vanilla Minecraft.” Anyway, that’s my one nitpick about my own essay. Perhaps I could have conveyed that better, but hey, ya win some, ya lose some.
Does this server change village trades or the enchanting system?
Yes to both
Will you also make this project available for singleplayer or make a version for singleplayer minecraft? i really like what you''re doing with this project that gives minecraft a much needed progression overhaul, and like how vanilla-like it is. Other mods often go crazy with adding a bunch of useless extra tool tiers that dont do anything unique for progression. I really want to be able to play this in singleplayer.... :)
Where can we get the datapacks and plugins?
I'm going to add some criticism and compliments:
-It would be far better to implement a updated health system that either has a mineral that increases your health or a progression achievement system. It is very unbalanced. Starting with 3 hearts does not account for how AI, generation, or general randomness in the game. When I die ingame it's never because of complacently, well EvP in Minecraft has always felt awful to me.
Most of the time I would die in this game is because of a ghast hitting a piglin for example, or a zombie hitting me through a wall. Simply lowering max health doesn't solve that issue. It would be better to focus on interactivity between losing health than simply lowering it.
The regeneration idea is fine, it seems nice as a toggle option but it would probably be far better to just make base regen slower.
-I like the idea alot for varying weapons and effects, but you should add more building related tools. Imagine a tool that tilts blocks, one that lets you place farther, just options for that creativity aspect for Minecraft help a lot. Terraria has plenty of options to help you build ingame compared. You could add accessories to the game that still feel vanilla, such as the crab claw that was in development.
-Your solution for long term players breaking progression would simply not work without extreme restrictions. That's just putting a metal bar on the solution. If you want to give a genuine solution to this, you'd need to implement a level system. Let's say you need "level 7" to wear iron armor.
"9 Iron bits can be combined for one Iron ingot" so you invented iron Nuggets
Yes, basically except that iron has to be smelted in a forge and not just crafted in a table. Think of it as iron nuggets with extra steps haha
@@TheGeekFactor_that is basically better than wolf or gregtech new horizon progression,you should play them first at least early early game
@@TheGeekFactor_ Than just have iron ore drop iron nuggets...
Why an ingot? Why not raw iron?
Raw iron nugget?
9:04 ah yes, my favorite healing potion: dandelion opium soup
Haha I just needed some kind of simple, renewable potion. Opium, dandelion soup seemed to be the quickest, most reliable option lol
My mans is basically describing a slightly dumbed down Terrafirmacraft mod
Yeah
So he just wants to play vintage story lol. Literally the devs from there made an entire new game and its amazing.
@@samsonthemanson what's the game called?
"Sharing your tools is banned"
"Theft and murder is legal outside of claims"
Oh no, I have stepped outsife my claim without my armor on and with my precious tools on my person! I sure hope my friend right here won't betray and kill me to get them!
honestly my favorite part of mc is the exploration. then i settle down and things get really boring without someone to play with...
As someone who has been playing minecraft since 2013/2014, minecraft has become very boring, I once played with 5 people in one world (my 2 neighbors and 3 nephews). we started getting bored after 1-2 hours
Literally real life lol
...And the issue of inventory management grows
True!!!! A big request since the beta has been some form of backpacks
@@TheGeekFactor_ Just make custom armor pieces that increase inventory space
@@user-df9xo3vc2u impossible within the context of datapacks unfortunately, plugins maybe
@@user-df9xo3vc2u There is a mod called satchel that does exactly that. Wish mojang would stop being so stubborn with all the shulker thing
@@TheGeekFactor_ Backpacks should have been vanilla since 1.0
While a lot of these ideas are creative, they just don't fit Minecraft.
Yes, the bed crafting is cool, but the progression seems overcomplicated.
I once opposed the idea of copper and bronze tools, but that's what we need.
Make iron appear less on the surface and require bronze, and add copper/bronze replacement for iron utilities
(Example: copper shield breaks super fast, copper bucket can't hold lava).
For insane regeneration speed, it shouldn't be disabled, or even slowed that much. Better idea is to make it consume more of your food bar, and speaking of it, it should drop quicker.
You want to make food drop even quicker? That shit's already draining way too fast.
@@witherschat I want it to drop faster when player is regenerating.
But honestly, it'd be nice to have food become a real issue for the first two hours of the game.
@@polishscribe674 Food is slready an annoyance from the moment your little spawn saturation bonus runs out to the moment you decide to stop playing a world.
I could see an improvement being slower drain from running around and faster drain from regen.
@@witherschat no, food isn't an annoyance. Setting up a small farm or hunting for some wild pigs solves the problem easily.
Are you really too impatient for the base of every survival game - gathering food?
@@polishscribe674 I have pretty severe ADHD. It's a disability that, among other things, causes me to often lose focus and start jumping around without being fully conscious of it. I burn through food at high speed while doing literally nothing. So yes, it is in fact an annoyance.
my ass ain't surviving 10 seconds with 3 hearts
Haha it’s pretty tough at first! Definitely gotta do some strip mining on the first night
@@TheGeekFactor_ I got a mod in my custom modpack that adds in this limited health mechanic. Despite how hard it's been to play with, I can confirm it adds a really nice layer of challenge and it's actually terrifying to go get iron during the first two days or so
Fŕfr
@@TheGeekFactor_ That doesn't sound like good gameplay. Why force players into the least fun part of the game?
@@omegahaxors3306You mean an essential part of the game? You don’t NEED to strip-mine, but it’s certainly the most efficient way to do it. It’s the same as literally everything else in Minecraft. There’s definitively efficient ways to do things, but you aren’t forced to do it that way.
this definitely isn’t vanilla minecraft… that being said this is so awesome and I would love for this to be a game mode and I would totally play this as someone stuck in the instant progression burnout loop.
It's supposed to change vanilla, just think of it as what Minecraft would've been if progression was directed by this guy
I started playing Minecraft 5 years ago, it was introduced to me by my son who's been playing it for the past 15 years old. At the age of 26, my son, and me at 45, We absolutely love this game. I choose not to fight the ender dragon, haven't even made an attempt to go to the end. I really just love the survival aspect of minecraft. I don't do any Redstone automation, I don't do any mob farms, I like to go out and explore the world. I don't want the game to become too easy for me then I'll get bored. Eventually I'll visit the end, and eventually I might decide to go after ancient debris, but until then, I'm just enjoying playing Minecraft like it's 2011.
I like the challenge that you presented in your video. I've been playing games since I was 13. I played the games that had no checkpoints or saved files.
I think your changes to the health system do not take into account the fact that it makes so many of the preexisting mobs insanely difficult to fight without any real armor or a shield in a way that is not positive for “true survival”
I feel like this time around you took a good segment of progression and overcomplicated it needlessly. I like the way Iron is now. I play survival, yeah, but I'm a builder. If I wanted to spend 4x as long making a single tool, I'd play a different game. In Minecraft it makes sense you get Iron tools fast because anything below is borderline unusable for anything larger than a starter hut.
Exactly these changes he proposes are not flexible they just make you play only in one way. The rigged nature of those changes discourage playing other playstyles and being creative because you are constantly trying not to die making it extremely hard to focus on doing anything else.
The thing is Minecraft is not ment to be exclusively survival it is a more sandbox adventure type game with survival elements. The game gives you the freedom to choose what you want to do with only some barriers to overcome throughout the game. Thats why a vast majority of the games content is optional it is soposed to be a adventure of your own making with a simple progression path that is the foundation of your adventure.
Its a game that does not tell you what to do. You choose to do what you find fun
@@Gigi4u the nature of these changes is to facilitate a more complex and progression focused survival game for his server. If you don't like these changes because you admit you're more of a builder, than clearly the changes arent for you. As someone that really loved vintage story for its progression, I would welcome changes like these.
Not saying you are wrong, just that its obvious that players who approach Minecraft for different reasons will have different wants out of how the game functions.
I have honestly always loved the concept of alloys in the game so that you are always choosing between different strengths and weaknesses.
I agree it feels a bit complicated with the whole forge system but I think that other than that it's perfectly fine for people who play the game for the survival aspect and not the building. I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't be immediately building a mega base or even a smaller, high detailed one. If you want to go into it immediately building just play creative.
@@enozlliks7794 you just need to be a skilled builder to make a nice house/fort aut of common materials. It's not that hard.
Also the reason why a good chunk of builders prefer playing in survival is because of the limitations the mode has. No infinite blocks and no flying for most of the game. It makes players resource manage and think about how they will build something with the limited resources and gravity imposed on them.
A great example is hermitcraft were they defeat the dragon in episode 2 or 3 but chose to keep playing because it's fun building, resource managing and plan out future builds.
Survivals rules are just flexible enough to allow for a lot of creativity to be had playing it.
@@Gigi4u Well a lot of this is just subjective. I personally don't like having to deal with getting all the blocks I need, then having to halt building because I realized I don't have enough of something particular or got a new idea. I just don't like having to maticulously plan everything out, but I understand that some people enjoy that. You still have vanilla mc where you can break the progression to build whatever. So, I don't think that having a more survival and progression focused plugin is bad.
I need to make a second comment because I just finished the video
This is not Minecraft anymore. This is a separate game entirely. Like what you said about the wiki thing, it's very reminiscent of Terraria, which is infamous for people relying on its wiki. By fundamentally changing the game in the ways you have (complicating everything, like beds, armor, tools, health), you're basically forcing players to play one way, which is your way. By discouraging players to play how they want, it sort of kills the game for them, like famers, explorers, redstoners, etc. It's a sandbox game, not a survival game. I know you've gotten many comments like this one, so I'm sorry if it's repetitive, but I had to say something.
The mode is literally called survival mode. Also just as people are allowed to play Minecraft the way they want to play, people can also add and change things they want to. There's no problem with that
@@jeremy7372 okay, but this is turning Minecraft into something it isn't. Just play a different game at that point.
Something I usually do is pretty simple. Having a mod which changes the stone tool recipe to use actual stone and iron smelting into nuggets
Better kill iron golems
As simple as that is, it feels like it would fix early progression, even if only a little bit. But that would go a long way.
What mod?
@@antonionegrea3554 I forgot to mention, but I play on 1.12.2 I use better vanilla for stone tools and hardcore mining for the iron. Note that this also changes gold and diamond spawns
I have yet to find mods like this for modern minecraft, but I believe that these implementations can easily be coded with enough effort. Itd make the new over abundance of ores now have a good counter without changing the core game much at all also while adding little. In the 1.12.2 mod, diamonds drop diamond shard, comparible to iron nuggets as they must be crafted by 9. Also in the mod is rich ore viens that drop normally. However, this doesn't really go long in making mining more interesting, but just prolongs the process. If I were to add something, id suggest maybe adding more process to making armor and tools like shown in the video with the lava cauldron.
I like that flint is needed for the stone tool recipes. Great idea.
What I love about it is that it gives those annoying flint deposits underground a really nice use case.
I mean I get it. I would've honestly just added copper tools and removed stone tools. But if you're adding shit like Zinc and Carbon into the number of resources you have to keep track of, you're commiting the exact same mistakes that make the one million and one tech mods suck ass. You understood the problem but the solution was misguided, and just made another bad tech mod.
I don’t think it’s that complicated. There are a total of 8 bits. All of which come from the three alternative stones. It’s incredibly simple to understand. But hey, it’s not for everyone and I appreciate the comment!
@@TheGeekFactor_ I have come to realize my attitude was harsh, and I apologize for that. There's just lots of design decisions that I disagree with. Like the addition of new ores or alloys, knowing that so many of minecraft's existing resources already have very barren utility. Or the addition of "Liminal Resources" that only exist to be the middle step to crafting one or two things and has no value whatoever by itself. Or new resources that do the exact same thing as something that already exists, like the iron bits that are effectively just iron nuggets with a different name.
Iron bits are functionally different than iron nuggets due to their implementation. Not only is iron more rare in the world, but the ore now drops 0-9 bits which have to then be smelted in a forge. That alone is radically different from nuggets.
@@TheGeekFactor_I think it's a matter of nuggets are segments of an ingot. Nuggets are for chains and lanterns I think, and they make ingots. So since players are used to nuggets having bits seems jarring and an addition for the sake of it. Why not give nuggets all the functionality of bits instead of making a new resource?
I don't care either way just clarifying what the confusion may be.
14:32 why not use galvanized square steel?
and cover it with eco friendly wood venneers
21:28 You had me all the way until you said no cooperation
Yea, like how will you have communities if nobody can help each other? Progression isn’t eradicated cause some rich guy gave somebody an iron pickaxe.
You can't ban the ability to shere items since that is apart of survival working together to survive especially with the stuff you have done
Keep in mind the recipes are simple for a reason, back 14 years ago no one knew anything and there was no recipe book.
Minecraft's progression was you figuring out how to craft wood/stone tools. And figuring that out from scratch was HARD.
This isn't a critique, more highlighting that most of these systems were added 12-13 years ago for a very different looking game and audience.
He could just add an command to the server as a form of guided book, like Terraria do (but this time you can acess it anywhere)
And that’s why we have a recipe and guide book haha
14:48 "Carbon doesn't really exist in minecraft"
Diamonds: am I a joke to you?
Coal, charcoal, and every plant in existence: are we a joke to you?!
@@HellCromeE *yes*
I think it’s pretty clear that I mean a “carbon item” doesn’t exist lol
@@TheGeekFactor_ the carbon element block in education edition: 😐
@@TheGeekFactor_ that could still be substituted for diamond or coal that's what most modpacks that add steel do (atleast the vanilla plus ones anyway)
"Tedious" is the word you are looking for, not "difficult"
The changes are too drastic, it's like you've stripped the spinal cord out of Minecraft.
Yes, to you, these changes may be appealing, but to truly "fix" Minecraft you need to make changes that appeal to a wider scale, millions of people even.
My idea is that the core beginning progression should remain the same BUT give the option to the player to make alternatives before going straight to Iron by balancing a few mechanics.
For example cows and horses should drop more leather and rabbits should always drop hide, spawn in more biomes and produce more than one offspring when bred, in this way players have the option to make leather armor first.
But of course more leather means getting bookshelves faster for the enchanting table, to fix this issue we raise the number of maximum bookshelves required for a max level from 15 to 22, also the enchanting table shouldn't register bookshelves behind other blocks.
Chainmail on the other hand should be craftable using iron ingots and nuggets so that they can fit between leather and iron.
Gold tools and armor should have buffed durability so that they're not useless anymore but not enough so that they're better than iron, and also gold pickaxes should be able to mine gold too.
And since everyone complains about villages, they should be more sparse with less hay bales laying around and less food in their chests. Blacksmith chests are also nerfed: iron armor is replaced with chainmail, iron tools with stone tools, ingots being replaced with nuggets, diamonds removed or replaced with iron/gold ingots and obsidian replaced with flint or coal so that it's harder to get to the Nether early.
Well, there’s a reason I said I fixed “my biggest issue” with Minecraft and not “the biggest issue.” The biggest issue is clearly performance. Java is shit. Haha my $1000 computer can barely record and play Java edition at the same time even with sodium.
But yeah, I am totally aware that these changes are not for everyone and I actively encourage people who don’t like this kind of thing to stay away. Play games that are fun for you. If it’s too hard or too complicated, that’s fine. Just not for you.
@@TheGeekFactor_Get lunar client, which comes with optifine.
@@Yukisnow449 Optifine is way less optimized than Sodium.
@@Yukisnow449 Don't use LC. OptiFine is ass nowadays. If he cannot get decent FPS on a $1000 computer, that's most likely an issue of the way his MC is setup (not playing the blame game btw, just is usually the case).
Like for example, I use PrismLauncher, allocate 16gb of RAM to Minecraft so that the garbage collection doesn't be annoying and stutter all the time (although 4-8gb should be fine!), use various optimisation mods (some listed below) and my PC cost was around AUD$1000 iirc.
I can *easily* get 240 FPS (my refresh rate is 240hz) with my specs on 32 chunk render distance (no distant horizons/nvidium/bobby). With Nvidium and Bobby (never got around to testing Distant Horizons yet), I get minimum 240 fps like vanilla, it can go up to 1000 fps depending on how many entities. Usually it sits between 400-600 fps.
My relevent hardware:
Operating System: Windows 10 Pro (x64) [build 19045.4529/22H2]
Motherboard: GIGABYTE B360M H (BIOS version F15b)
CPU: i7-8700 (not OC'd, using default clocks whcich are 3.2ghz and 4.2ghz boost)
GPU: (NVIDIA) MSI RTX 2060 SUPER Gaming X
RAM: 16GB DDR4 SDRAM Dual-Channel 1200MHz (some Corsair shit, it's pretty bad clock for today's standards)
Good Fabric optimisation mods:
Concurrent Chunk Management Engine (improves chunk performance)
Debugify (fixes some small bugs in MC, very very rarely breaks a mod or two)
Dynamic FPS (caps FPS when game is in the background)
EntityCulling (culls/hides entities behind walls so the game doesn't render them)
FerriteCore (huge memory usage optimisations, VERY GOOD for low RAM)
ImmediatelyFast (optimises immediate mode rendering functionality)
Lithium (general performance improvements)
More Culling (culls/hides other things like item frames, very tweakable)
Nvidium (only for NVIDIA GPUs, basically replaces Sodium's whole rendering backend and uses NVIDIA's mesh shaders)
Particle Core (particles optimisation and culling)
Nvidium and Distant Horizons are interchangable and I'd recommend testing both out SEPERATELY.
(Nvidium requires NVIDIA gpu >= 16xx series and Distant Horizons works with all GPUs using LOD scaling)
Other Fabric mods I'd recommend (and with descriptions):
Bobby (bypass server-sided render distance limits by caching chunks) - can be buggy rarely
Cubes Without Borders (borderless fullscreen for Minecraft, not a rat like some other mods are)
Spark (profile your minecraft to see which mods are causing the most FPS issues, highly recommend)
@@Yukisnow449 thats not his point
coal is carbon
Did you just "muh society" in a video about block game being to easy? It isn't a "societal norm" to want the best stuff you can get, it's an innate human trait. Do you really think cave men were sat there, looking at their copper/bronze adorned neighbours and thinking "I don't need earthly possessions"?
Yes. Also, having the best is not an innate human trait. There are plenty of people who are content with what they have in life. There are cultures that breed such heavy materialist mentalities. And I think it has downstream effects to things like our media. That’s not a far fetched statement. lol it’s more founded than your “innate human trait” statement
BUT there I go all debate bro on a Minecraft video when I really shouldn’t waste my time with someone who triggered to the point of commenting about something totally irrelevant to the point of the video. Love ya. ❤️
@@TheGeekFactor_ Firstly, going debate bro is fine when someone is challenging you. That isn't a problem.
Secondly, I think saying that materialistic ideals are socially founded is just as valid as saying that minimalism is socially founded. I personally think it is far more natural to attempt to secure the highest living standard you possibly can and to maintain it, which is the cause for almost every war out there. There are only three known animals that actively war with each other, and I don't think it's a coincidence that humans and our closest living relative (chimps) are on that very exclusive list. The only thing those three have in common is a tendancy to hoard and store resources. If you're wondering, ants are the third, btw. I know, the imagery of ants going to war is kinda funny, but they have full on battle plans going on. Look into it. It's really interesting.
You should make a modpack that fixes the mc progression.
there already are,gregtech new horizon
Almost every progression mod
There are tons of mods out there that already do this. I can’t code worth shit, so I recommend looking into some others
Glourious Greggificated tools are the best tools.
@@Fangamer1254 no,actually the twilight forest iron wood pickaxe is better than most of gregtech tool in gtnh for some reason
Man, it feels so wrong looking at the gameplay from the left hand knowing that the right and left look completely wrong. Something Mojang never bothered to fix but really should. Since never understood why the right is a cube while the left is a rectangle.
Love the video though.
Why does it look wrong? I play left because I am lefthanded myself...
@@steffen6987The model of the hand and the animations. My Lil Sis is left handed while I'm right handed however in game. The animations were clearly designed with right in mind same goes to the left hand it wasn't ment to exist.
I would recommend reading rather than skimming since I explained that further down
See, I hear you, but then I remember that Mojang has right handed players hold the bow in their right hand and that has always bugged me
Imo all that really needs to change is to make copper tools and armour, make iron require copper, and make iron spawn a bit lower. I would also love if you require shears to get wool, and for villages to only spawn 500 blocks out
THIS. But also make it so stone tools require natural stone instead of cobblestone to craft. The furnace recipe wouldn’t change so it would add that extra little step and make wooden tools feel like they’ve got more time in the spotlight.
that's why Tinkers Iguana Tweaks exists. Just by changing the early progression can make a really good experience. Instead of making a wooden pick and speedrun the stone pickaxe, you need to make a custom flint pickaxe from tinkers construct, then leveling it up to level 2 (ig it was Clumsy) to finally mine the next tier
these are all great ideas and I like how you’ve approached it. But I feel like all that needs to change in terms of progression is to add copper tools/armor, make copper pickaxes required to mine iron ore, and change the stone tool recipes to require natural stone instead of cobblestone to craft (the furnace recipe would remain unchanged). Just my thoughts though, don’t know if all that would work in practice.
Okay, look. Just hear me out: copper tools.
Bronze would be better but as a way of combining copper and a new element tin
I was going to suggest terrafirmacraft since it also focuses on the early game, but it looks like you already know about vintage story which is basically terrafirmacraft.
I wanted to do something similar to TFC without the super hardcore survival mechanics, and I wanted it to be plugins only on the server side, so anyone could join
@@TheGeekFactor_ Yeah we noticed.
You're making the new pack designer mistake of nerfing everything and then forcing players to do things your way which in this case is especially egregious because of how overcomplicated it presents itself as. It's not fun. It's much healthier to give the player options and only remove stuff if it overshadows other things in the pack, because some things simply cannot be balanced.
This approach is perfectly fine for some modpacks, because you download the pack knowing what to expect. But it's not "fixing vanilla", it's turning vanilla into worse [insert every other extrinsically motivated game]
@@witherschat Glad you brought that up because that's a point that really gets under my skin. Instead of taking what's there and trying to make a unique experience a lot of people will immediately jettison any chance at creative liberty by beelining towards "What if it was more like [favorite game]" and it's like how about instead of ruining the game you currently have you just go play that other game instead.
My group just started a new server and we have more diamonds than iron. We live near the top of a mountain with no iron to be found, just copper all around. We dug down to the deepslate and find much more diamond than any iron so its actually the limiting factor. Need some for a bucket, a pick for the diamond, cant make hoppers for farms, but our tools and armor are turning blue quick. Its a very strange dynamic.
this is an issue, in older versions of minecraft, (I'm talking about versions prior to beta 1.7.3) iron wasnt as common as now, if you wanted to collect 32 iron ingots you had to mine for at least 1,5 hour
Yeah I remember it was much harder lol, now it's free af u don't even need to go deep into a cave at all since you find it on mountains or near the surface very often.
I'm not too into the low hearts early on, as I'm someone who really sucks at Minecraft combat and such, so I tend to die even with the current set of hearts. This could potentially keep me from doing anything unless it's ironed out a bit. Which, leads to a bit of a criticism I have with Minecraft, where in, it's hard early on and gets easier as you level up. Like, the harder mobs should be harder to get to. Most overworld mobs should be pretty easy, right? I don't know. Like, I don't think the game needs to be easier, just more balanced for the early game. In fact, it can be harder for the late game, as after I get full diamond, everything becomes a breeze, which... also sucks.
everything you mentioned should be possible with pure datapacks and a resourcepack for the cauldron GUI
>delete wooden pickaxe and axe, because they doesn't make sence
>make stone tools require flint instead of cobble
ez
I kind of feel like all of this just made the game more grind-y. While yes it’s more difficult to progress through, the difficulty comes from making crafting recipes more complicated and tedious.
For example, you made the case that beds are “too easy” to get, but now it’s much harder to get beds and (since you respawn infinitely in Minecraft) it is basically just a huge inconvenience that makes the game annoying. So instead of being able to settle in a place you actually want, you’re stuck near spawn unless you want to run for hundreds of blocks to get your items back. It doesn’t do anything aside from anchor you to the spawn since respawns are infinite anyways and this feature discourages exploration if the player just doesn’t get a bunch of chickens for feathers early on.
I think a better fix for a more survival based version of Minecraft is to just make the mobs harder. They don’t need more health or anything, but keeping them a consistent threat throughout all levels of play is a great way of actually making players afraid to go get iron or diamonds in a dark cave. For example, all spiders could potentially poison the player instead of just cave spiders. Skeletons could have a faster rate of fire. Zombies could be faster than other mobs or spawn with leather armor for slightly more defense. Maybe all mobs are faster, stronger, or spawn more in darker light levels or lower Y levels like deeper in caves. Instead of just messing with crafting recipes, making the mobs earn the title of “monsters” makes it so that even leather armor is more worth using if it means not dying to monsters in caves.
Now, going into caves to get iron becomes a real challenge you want to be prepared for, otherwise you end up dying a lot. Rather than saying “you’re so weak because you have nothing” it’s “you have nothing because you’re so weak.” So now, you still have the option of getting great early-game equipment, but the risk is greatly increased because monsters are way harder to ignore.
If you didn't die 1000 times that wouldn't be an issue lol
That's the point, making MC a survival game, where not dying matters, unlike in current mc where dying is a small deal, even more so like a lot of people play using keepinventory. Not saying it's wrong, just a different kind of game. Current survival MC, as he explained, is not really survival at all but creative with extra steps.
Look, you could even say that current survival mc is just creative with extra steps lmao, so I don't think it's fair to say this is bad just because it's regular survival mc but with extra steps, even though it kinda is, it's more complex and different than that.
Also, keep in mind the dude is using plugins and datapacks, there's limits to what he can or can't do.
@@DeMooniC The thing is dying DOESN’T matter even with the changes. What they suggested doesn’t make dying suddenly matter again if you just choose to play optimally and stay near spawn. Respawning is still infinite, so making crafting recipes harder so that you die more often and don’t have beds does almost nothing except take extra time and limits where you want to go during your playthrough. Traveling far becomes harder if you consider that a “fix”, but it also makes seeds where you spawn in deserts and stuff way more difficult. The fun of Minecraft is being able to just walk to a place you like more, but now you can’t do that unless you have a good enough chicken farm. It just makes playing the game more annoying and discards stuff which use to be fun like exploring since now you’re locked in one spot without a bed.
Yes, Minecraft IS a survival game, but it also encourages exploration and wants you to go where you like. This change compromises one aspect for improving the other, and my point is it makes it “more of a survival game” by ignoring all the other stuff it affects.
Also, yes, base survival is creative with extra steps, but this version just ADDS even more steps. Saying “it’s not fair” as a comparison makes no sense because (even if you’re right in comparison to creative) the actual problem is it over-complicates crafting recipes to add gameplay time. I’m not comparing it to creative. The problem isn’t “survival compared to creative” it’s “this survival vs original survival.” Excusing game design that compromises aspects of the game just because “well creative exists” isn’t a good defense.
Their actual goal is to make getting iron and stuff more difficult, and stronger mobs is one way of doing it that doesn’t compromise aspects of the game like exploration. Since caving is one of the best ways of getting iron, making caving difficult with mobs is a good solution and makes it more dangerous to go through ALL levels of play (making diamond/netherite more valuable) rather than just the beginning. Yeah spawns are still infinite, but if the monsters are strong enough to make you not want to go caving until you’re stronger then that fulfills what they wanted. Yeah maybe you CAN put a bed nearby and continue spawning, but it punishes you for doing that because you’re probably going to die more often while you try and get your stuff back.
Last thing: sure they use datapacks, but how difficult is it on a datapack to affect the damage a monster does? Blaming the creativity of the solution on the limitations in this circumstance doesn’t make sense
The problem with making mobs stronger as the players gets more equipment is that it compromises multiplayer making the game more difficult for anyone who joins a server which has progressed to later levels (and is already an issue with elytras and netherite templates) but also havign the difficulty consistent takes away one of they key elements of progression which is feeling stronger. It takes away the main reward.
I think a solution would be having more challenges like trial chambers or deep dark become available overtime. You can challenge them whenever to keep MC's open endedness but gear them towards mid game or late game depending on what the challenge is.
Or actually make mansions and nether fortresses...actually interesting challenges which require some thought.
@@NoMustang273 I think this is actually a really valid critique.
I 1000% agree with making the other challenges in the game actual challenges over upscaling the difficulty overall because to me that’s way funner.
One thing that might fix my suggestion could just be having players who have already been on the world for a while offering armor to their friends.
Another solution could be making diamond and netherite more useful than they already are to scale with the new difficulty. That way they feel just as strong and rewarding.
One point I brought up was making monsters get more dangerous depending on what Y level you’re at. Chances are that the deeper you are in a cave, the more you’re progressing the game in terms of iron/diamonds/strongholds/etc. The intention would be that new players would be safe staying on the surface as they get settled in, and making the choice to go deeper down for resources increases the risk of coming across more dangerous monsters. This would make it so that new players aren’t always in active danger and they have to make the choice to hunt for dangerous resources but be rewarded for their efforts
@@crolithebard4964 I think those suggestions sound really good. Caves are arguably the best "dungeons" in the gae because they involve building and combat since you need to traverse dangerous terrain and deal with mobs.
I think the game also needs more horizontal progression and better weapon diversity. I wish they made tridents and maces to an extent viable alternatives to swords and axes. Plus more enemies like the Breeze which are trickier to fight would help a ton to make the combat part of the game more fun. Perhaps do more stuff with enchantments perhaps.
I think it's admittedly difficult to fix Minecraft's progression without possibly hurting the building aspect because right now, the main goal of better gear is to get more items for whatever you need. The game is ultimately about building which is what a lot of these "fixes" miss so I think when implementing these additional changes, the main goal should be to make the combat loop satisfying in and of itself so it doesn't necessarily need to overshadow everything else and players aren't forced to engage with it if they aren't interested.
The fun part to me, is that this issue is even more nuanced than TheGeekFactor says. I can get to iron quickly because I've been playing since release version 1.4.7, sure, but unlike a good majority of players, I can still just casually die to a group of two skeletons in full enchanted iron or full unenchanted diamond or netherite. The issue for me isn't that the early game is made too easy by this factor, and being forced to survive on even less health would make the game even less playable for me. While all of these factors are great for people who don't suck at PvE and PvP, they're not great for me, but that's okay! After watching this video, I've come just a bit closer to realizing what may work better for my own early game experience, and I'm really appreciative for that!
My main and sole complaint is that while yes, you’ve “balanced” (made a lot more grind-y), the game and mechanics, which heightens community and elongates the progression system, you’ve essentially shunned, boxed in, shot, and then hung, (after dropping them in incredibly unnecessary amounts of acid) the solo player.
Going into caves early game isn’t an option unless you’re skilled at the PVP/PVE elements. You’re 2 hits away from death, after all. What this means is you’ve sell essentially gutted half the game name (MINEcraft) until much later after you’ve achieved the means not to die pretty quickly in the caves.
Shelters are basically just sitting and doing nothing, because you can’t sleep and digging down leads to the dangers of caves.
Since beds have been obfuscated, your spawn point is out of your hands, making any shelter a short term home, and actually removes incentive to build and actually put any form of expression or expansion, because your home isn’t guaranteed in any capacity. Until you get those rewards, at best you’re just sitting in a really shoddily made hovel or hole to burn 10 minutes. (Which was so much of a problem that beds were introduced in the first place.)
Presumably, wood is maintained at its normal values, or balanced (and thus weaker), around the capabilities of the new top tier level (iron and the alloys), which makes wooden tools effectively useless in combat, especially given you are also defenseless. (As your only recourse is leather, which barely serves to improve health and doesn’t actually assist in covering the inabilities/lack of skill you have.)
Thus there’s no benefit to solo mining, making a real attempt at shelter, doing anything at night, exploring, and even building.
The only way to sidestep this is by taking an exceptionally long, cautious, and often painfully slow playstyle, (which is yes the point, but there’s a fine line to have to toe to balance the time and effort in relation to reward/risk-reward design philosophy, a line I think you failed to consider), which doesn’t actually allow expression, or and forces allying with others.
And, since you cannot recover health, all of those issues are compacted. Sure, you’ve cut out the “rush,” but you’ve also made it virtually impossible to play the game, at least in a way that actually feels fun solo. Hell, I feel as though all the “choice” is as artificial as before. Except instead of being so rewarding it there was no real choice to begin with, it’s so risky the rewards aren’t even worth attempting.
I feel as though if you want to truly fix the issue, you have to at least account for the individuals who want to do it on their own. Perhaps making caves more rewarding than just simply electing to not risk it? Or maybe bolster loot just a tad bit In chests, to incentivize exploring. Perhaps making a means to temporarily set a respawn point that costs a resource (unlike a bed), so you can have the perks of one (incentivizing building and expansion of your home), without losing the risk factor that comes from not having one, to bridge the gap. Maybe give the player a way to put alloy in the arrows for compound effects, or making tipped arrows easier to make, so that caves are still challenging, but now that you have a solid range option, can give true and solid choice between the risk of the journey and the reward. Of course, that’s just my two cents.
This is why making crafting takes 15 days to craft is possible solution
The tool sets thing reminds me of the tinkers survival mod, where you can craft diff weapons and tools that are similar but have different functionalities, like having a bone blade will help you pierce armor whereas having a wooden blade will let you repair it better and such
This would work as a cool mod, but i don't think it would work well in vanilla, you basically made simplified terrafirmacraft. Cool datapack though.
In my total conversion mod, I removed wooden tools altogether and replace them with pebbles you collect from the ground. You can use these pebbles for multiple things, such as throwing them as an early game ranged weapon that deals minimal damage or as decoration in the late game. However, their primary use early on is or making stone tools. This deals with the completely useless wooden tier nicely, from personal experience and feedback from playtesters.
As for Iron, I made it spawn deeper than sea level, so you actually have to go out of your way looking for it. Similarly, diamond is found in the newly implemented deeper caves with new threats such as beefy ogres and ghosts that go through walls and inflict blindness.
I also made gold not suck by simply making it a tier between iron and diamond.
I find this system works much better, whilst still keeping the spirit of the original alive. As an added bonus, my two dimensions have extra ores that can be used to make tools which serve as a direct upgrade to diamond (diamond tool stats but with extra benefits, e.g. the nether ore is just diamond tools that become more effective the more they are damaged, so you are incentivized in keeping them at low health)
The ultimate tool tier will be one crafted from materials found in all three dimensions (overworld, nether and skylands)
How exaclty would that "collectin on the ground" look like?
For guiding the player on progression, an in game solution that might work could be a crafting tree
this seems pretty dang good
my one issue is just that there are so many "bits" you can get, it feels hard to keep track of. amethyst armor was a bit of a jumpscare beacause i had never heard of anything like it previously in the vid.
and i think fully fledged textures would help a bunch
love this, hope it goes really far, would love to play :>
OH YOU SHOULD TOTALLY ALSO DISABLE ELYTRA AND BUFF MINECARTS
@@MorrisonScott Yeah elytra is busted
(sigh's in orespawn amethyst)
Progression feels too complicated now imo. If you HAVE to have a wiki just so players can play your game, there are improvements to be made.
Like, maybe instead of trying to salvage the low-tier tools and completely removing the high tier ones, flatten them out a bit. Make wood/stone/gold less bad, and have stone/iron require something extra on top of the normal requirements. Flint for stone tools is a great idea. Maybe Iron could require some additional "thing" too. Split progression is cool, but I think when you're mixing alloys it starts to venture a liiittle too much into the "requires 5 wiki pages to understand" territory.
Biggest complaint with your current system is how pistons, rails, and similar cost 9x more iron. Doesn't feel like the mid-game nerf to iron armor and tools justifies the price hike for these blocks. Heck, a single minecart now costs more than a vanilla anvil.
the aether fixes this part of progression by making wooden tools have the ability to duplicate naturally generating base materials, a skyroot shovel will give you two of anything that shovels are most efficient at for each naturally generating one you mine, and a skyroot pickaxe will do the same for non-ore pickaxe things, and the axe is the same for logs, so in my aether only world yes i have a zanite (iron equivalent) pickaxe, but I also carry a skyroot pickaxe with me for every non-ore thing.
While I do believe that Minecraft’s progression is often rushed through, immediately cutting the player down to 3 hearts, is a bit much, while just removing natural regeneration is a pretty big challenge, especially for new players, that’s another thing, these changes for new players can be insanely difficult and not fun, so, I’d personally suggest changing 3 hearts to 5 hearts, it’s still pretty hard but you could always implement some sort of difficulty, I don’t know I’m not a programmer, when it comes to enchants, I have a few suggestions, take some inspiration from the greatest game of all time (shadow fight 2) you can make it so you have an npc give you random enchants (you decide those) and in return, you’d pay the npc in… I don’t know, you decide that. please consider my suggestions
hallowed armor? zenith armor? Terraria moment
do you plan on making this into a mod at some point?
i cant really play on servers because i live in autralia and ping to us servers is unplayable
What you could do for sharpness is use the grinder to increase sharpness. Then sharpness 5 would only last for a few hits until it goes to sharpness 4 then it stays at 4 for a while until it goes to 3 etc then it could go negative with bluntness as well so if you want the best gear you have to constantly maintain you sword like how soldiers did when campaigning
Honestly.
As Minecraft beta progressed, they turned Minecraft from Minecraft in to a mediocre at best RPG and mediocre at best survival game. I think trying to turn it in to a slightly less mediocre RPG or survival game is wrong headed, and the idea of simply extending the 'hobo' period of games has been tried by many mod authors and never really fixes the issue. I've seen it many times in minecraft modding and plenty in modding other games. You cannot fix the core gameplay by just making the period you have nothing to your name even longer. The issue persists. The moment you are no longer a hobo, the game is over. The act of gathering the gear was the gameplay and not using it. Woops!
I salute the yesteryear of tech mods that simply added nth level progression steps to everything. All forgotten.
Either there needs to be commitment to real things to do with gear or everyone needs to admit turning Minecraft in to a survival RPG in the firstplace was a mistake.
when you want to play minecraft but vintage saga is just better
My idea to address the issue of “players working too much together” is as follows:
Personally, I am not a fan of making the server competitive or causing players to distrust each other, as there will always be ways around it.
Increase Initial Distance: Make players spawn further apart, but not too far, just for the early game.
Unlockable Crafting Recipes: Make crafting recipes for advanced items unlockable by completing certain tasks during progression. For example, crafting an iron ingot would unlock recipes that use iron. This could be intrusive, so ensure that it is well communicated to the player. A good example of communication is whenever you craft any type of ingot, you unlock the recipes for items that use it.
Tiered Item Drops: Low-tier items should drop worse resources than higher-tier items when mining. For instance, an iron pickaxe will always drop iron ore, whereas stone tools will drop a piece of iron instead of the whole ore. This will make the journey to obtaining iron more challenging without making iron gathering too tedious. Also this way, better and worse players will have separated progression paths of gathering resources.
With this approach, when a newer player joins, they can still catch up to more experienced players. However, the experienced players cannot simply give them all their high-tier items, forcing the newer player to progress through the game.
if each material would have a one item which would be best in its category for certain purpose it could be interesting, also nerfing iron by making its appearance rarer and boosting stats of items made with gold would alrdy fix a lot, or just introduce copper items.. perhaps also boosting wooden stuff a tiny bit and nerfing stoned things as well would make the game more balanced
Will there be a download option for your project? I would like to try it.
Im worried things like this encourage people to not play the game and instead stand in one spot and strip mine or dig gravel forever. People like to be safe and efficient and this encourages it. Of course the difficulty will drive away most people but even the ones who like the challenge i feel may play only to progress and nothing else. Loseing interest faster. Thats been my problem with difficult mods like "better than wolves" .
Currently working with my little team on how to reimplement enchantments as the vanilla way… kinda sucks if you ask me lol
People don't ever talk about this now but leather armor USED to be useful with the old way armor worked. Before 1.8, all armor gave you full armor points if you had a full set of it but those armor points would get lower as the armor's durability got lower. Due to the inability to repair armor/tools, the constant threat of mobs due to 1. the old lighting/mob spawning system, 2. the need to travel slowly on foot where mobs can spawn around you instead you of flying over them, and 3. the old mob AI/pathfinding where mobs would jump down on to you to surprise you, and the difficulty of getting enough iron to replace your broken iron armor (and don't even get me started on how valuable diamonds used to be)- leather armor was a very useful alternative, you wouldn't be using the leather for anything else so you could stockpile it and have a new set ready to go whenever you needed it.
There's lots of things that used to have a purpose and now don't, it's really sad.
I don't think making minecraft more realistic is the solution here, the early game should make you feel helpless yes, BUT a lot of the ore changes are just unnecessary
I like the health change tho, some way of starting with and then ending with more health is good, I just feel like adding tedium into getting stone and iron is just- not the way to go, I mean, if you want that experience I think it's great for a mod, but not the base game
I think copper is a good candidate for a tier between iron and stone, it's more common than iron but obviously less common than stone, and copper legitimately has NO use early game, and even still after has no use
I know the devs don't wanna do it, but in my opinion, the jump between stone and iron feels TOO far, and the jump between iron and diamond is also really far, and there needs to be a tier between them too, (I'd say gold if ruined portals didn't exist)
I think you focused here too much on adding realism into the game to make it harder, but I think it'd be more minecraft to actually do the opposite, minecraft should be goofy and unrealistic
so here's my idea for minecraft progression in full
1
make leather more common, cows should drop more of it, and hide should be usable as leather. This way leather armor is easier and more accessable to get
1 1/2
add an item like the gem hearts in terraria allowing you to get 10 hearts max, and add another kind of item that's harder to get that increases your health to 20 hearts, this way you add more to both the early and midgame
2
copper should be a tier between iron and stone, and chainmail will stay rare and stay at it's current strength (you'll see why)
3
between iron and diamond we add some kind of alloy, I think rosegold would be fun because I like that color, crafted with gold and copper
4
and then diamond/netherite is the baseline tier for endgame, this is where split horizontal progression starts
5
there's 3 classes that already fit into minecraft's damage types/weapons and that's a melee class, an archer/hunter class, and a mage class, so lets create 3 armor sets for each
using chainmail armor, leather armor, and netherite armor, you can create a knight's armor set, this will scale up all your melee damage, especially that of swords, this also is the strongest armor set defense wise, stronger than diamond/netherite
using diamonds, emeralds, and lapis you can create some sort of magic bar, (I'm not good at naming things) and with those bars you can craft a mage armor set, increasing all magic damage (ofc, adding more magic weapons into the game) and giving you a little sentry when the full set is worn, this set provides a similar amount of DR as diamonds do currently
Then using redstone and diamonds with leather armor, you can craft some sort of archery set, which will increase the damage and speed of all projectiles thrown, and provide complete silence when walking, which allows you to not be detected by mobs unless seen (I don't think mobs can hear you, the only one that can I think is the warden, extending sound alertedness to other mobs should also be done)
I know making leather more common makes max enchantment tables easier to get, but since good enchantments require level 30 or more I think it's fine, not that enchanting should stay the same, but levels being required to enchant makes more common bookcases not a big deal
by this point mobs would be hella easy to deal with as well so adding some extra bosses and other gameplay progression should also be done as well
I agree about leather armor. It's pretty difficult to get a hold of it in the game so people always get iron armor as their first set because there is no incentive to get leather. You have to find cows and caves are much quicker to find making leather armor useless unless you spawn near a village with it or have tons of cows spawn next to you
It’s so incredible to me just how different visions of Minecraft’s can be. Whereas the modern versions are all about power creeping the fuck out of everything, this is all about keeping it slow and staying with the basics that leave you relatively weak.
I wonder if mojang could ever do a massive update, dare I say something on the level of Minecraft 2.0, where they go back and fix all of Minecraft’s extrinsic progression. Adjust gear durabilities and mining speeds, hardness and blast resistance of all the blocks, adjust crafting recipes so you can’t get really important pieces of equipment too quickly, basic player stats like health, regen, speed, reach, strength, the way hunger and sleep works.
Can I have a link to the custom crafting plugin?
Why drag out an early game a player has been through 100 times? This would be fun once or twice in a modpack maybe (ik it's a plugin).
Changing iron to iron bits just adds grind and makes things take longer.
Alloys are cool. Durability increase is good and evens out the bits stuff.
22:35 I think you have to pick one: PvP or not. Cooperative players will not join if it's PvP everywhere and a player can delete all their slowly gained progress.
Ultimately I think your mistake is saying you fixed minecraft when this is really it's own unique experience that may be fun but should never be vanilla.
I… lmao I say in the title I fixed MY biggest problem and I say that in the video
How do I join the server?
"there is no reason to make wooden tools" unless you're playing some manhunt where those can save your life 😅
Remove wooden tools entirely because it doesn't make sense to chop a tree down with a WOODEN AXE. How about adding like little stone pieces you pick up off the ground then you can make a crude stone axe to chop down trees. It will be slower until you get enough materials until you build a grinder to upgrade from a crude stone axe to a sharp stone axe and then you have to upgrade your tools until your able to mine iron. Something like that.
Really cool video! I love it when people take it upon themselves to fix the issues they have with a game. It's something I wish one could do with any game, but most of them make themselves difficult to modify. A lot of people get into game development through modding.
You thought through all of your ideas very well! I like that even though progression is much more gradual and deliberate in your data pack, it still feels like Minecraft. You're still left-clicking blocks to get resources that you can craft together in a GUI, inexplicably able to morph steel plates into a bucket with your bare hands. This contrasts with Vintage Story, which takes a more realistic approach and has you physically knap stone, mold clay, and forge metal to get what you want, everything feeling like a major process. Yet despite your take on Minecraft's progression still feeling like vanilla, it's much more fully realized and challenging, while offering freedom of choice with which tools and armor you want to craft. It's all really cool. I'm looking forward to seeing where you take your data pack!
I was going to post this comment earlier in the day, but I wanted to try to offer suggestions for the issues you mentioned at the end of the video. I'm really struggling, though. They're really tough issues that stem from the way the rest of the mechanics are designed. But as an aspiring game dev, I feel compelled to try.
You mentioned the data pack's difficulty scaring off a lot of new players, as well as exploration being heavily discouraged until you have a bed and decent gear. With the player having only three hearts by default, it's gonna be difficult any way you slice it. But new players might be more willing to learn and explore if you made death less punishing?
Every game needs to strike a balance between difficulty and punishment. I don't think a ton of people realize how far separated these ideas actually are. Just for clarity, difficulty is how hard a challenge is to overcome, and punishment is what happens to the player should they fail. I generally like it when games are very hard, and dislike it when games are very punishing. As I said, your data pack is very difficult at the beginning, but this can be balanced by reducing the punishment. I have a few possible suggestions:
- Lose fewer items on death. Players can spend a ton of time and resources creating their gear, and the fear of losing that to a difficult challenge can be paralyzing. Maybe make it so that players keep their inventory or lose only half of their items on death. Alternatively, put their stuff in a chest on death like some modpacks do so that players don't need to recollect their stuff within five minutes or can even decide to forget it and try again later. If you want more competition, you can let other players steal that chest!
- I don't think it's a bad thing if players can easily set their spawn early on, especially on a multiplayer server where players will often walk thousands of blocks away from spawn before making their base. My main issue with beds is that they let you skip the night, circumventing the game's challenge early game. Maybe provide a way for players to set their spawn easily, but not skip the night.
Of course, you don't want the punishment to be _too_ lax. Otherwise players have no incentive to actually try to survive in their survival game. Difficulty vs. punishment can be a very difficult balance.
You also said that you want players to cooperate with a little bit of competition mixed in. I thought of a potentially fun way to do it. Make chests within a player's claimed chunks untouchable by other players, but let players craft an Interest Chest. These will slowly duplicate any items you put in them... But other players can steal freely! Interest Chests cannot be placed in claimed chunks, meaning a player can't easily protect theirs. Let players craft traps, like mob spawners, that they can place to defend their Interest Chest. I suspect players would have a lot of fun trying to keep their Interest Chest safe while raiding those of other players. I'm not familiar enough with data packs to know what the limits are so I don't know how feasible this is, but it would provide some controlled, opt-in competition.
I'm not sure if these are the kinds of ideas you're looking for. Minecraft means a lot of different things to a lot of different people, so the direction I want to take the game probably differs from the direction you want to take it in some way. But even if my ideas don't mesh with your vision, hopefully they at least get the gears turning.
There’s a couple things I’ve done to try and ease up on new players. One is offer a very cheap absorption potion that can temporarily boost health. Another is offer leather armor from an NPC near spawn for an insanely cheap price, allowing players to quickly get that extra health they need.
I am in talks with my devs about making a “soul bound” enchantment that allows players to keep tools and armor on death.
Enchanting itself is getting a massive overhaul. I’m trying to model it after Skyrim’s enchanting system using souls from enemies combined with scrolls for enchantments to get specific enchanted books and then using an anvil to put them on. It’s a long process that will need tons of testing, but yeah generally I want the experience to be challenging, but rewarding. If you put in the effort, you should feel good about that. That sort of logic is what I enjoy in games, so I want to replicate that for others
I think your solution is great for those who want to have a fresh take on the Minecraft and play on a server. As for mitigating players just handing out their cool stuff - two ideas come to mind. 1) It may be possible to tie the use of a tool to a related advancement for crafting the tool, and/or 2) make death more expensive by having no player drops unless another player is nearby - thus encouraging players not to give away their spares.
As for the bigger issue you identified at the start, I feel that there are some underlying issues that make the problem as bad as it is.
1) If nights were not skippable then the player would be forced to prioritize other ways to survive meaning that rushing to iron may not be feasible and thus they will stick on stone/wood for longer.
2) The inventory problem means taking extra tools/equipment is a potential waste of space for a minor benefit.
I would love to know why each tool tier has a hoe, shovel, axe, pick, and sword - it seems to be a pointless addition from my perspective. I do love the idea of more complex handles than just sticks though.
Overall I think every player will have an equilibrium point where they balance the effort needed to get tools and the benefit they get doing what they want. For some players this will be at stone or iron - for others it is fully enchanted netherite gear, neither one is inherently wrong. I would also note that iron is an ingredient in many crafting recipes so for some players it is not desirable to keep using iron tools any longer than you have to.
I agree vanilla Minecraft's progression system needs some tweaking. Some of your fixes sound a tiny bit too complicated for me personally (it's just a lot of material combos to remember, and I don't like having to stop and consult a wiki any time I need to craft something), but they're still really cool ideas! I especially like the idea of some kind of forge station being required for crafting metal tools. I think if I were to change MC's tool progression, I'd use something like the system in Valheim (btw if you haven't already played it, I think you might really enjoy it. It enables a similar kind of creativity that MC does, but keeps the core focus of gameplay purely on survival).
Sure! I can understand that! That’s why the alloys are entirely optional. They just provide bonuses for people who wish to learn. You can pretty easily go from stone to copper to iron without having to learn too much more than the base game, but like I said, I’m fully aware this experience isn’t for everyone.
"why have it at all?"
for custom maps? so people don't have to retexture stone sword to look it's made from wood
These are some really cool and creative fixes!
In vanilla without any tweaking my way of twisting progression a slightly different way has usually been to just do away with wooden tools completely and not allowing myself to break wood without an axe, meaning I have to obtain the first stones and wood with creeper blasts which sometimes made things pretty frustrating in hardcore but definitely exciting at the same time. Having to look for flint for early tools is something I think could be pretty cool also, but most of all I've always sorely been missing copper/bronze tools, so I'm glad you're adding them here! Normally I'm not a big multiplayer guy at all, but if anything makes me wanna try playing on a public server, it would be stuff like this
Very cool!
How did you get custom items into crafting recipes? Like the thick stick* to take other then it being a normal stick?
Why are you treating a sandbox progression like an rpg survival/open world progression? And let's not talk about Terraria, it's and amazing game, but it's an rpg first and sandbox second. They are related but very different genres, games often fall on a gradient between the two. Minecraft is mostly a sandbox, so at the very least you need to include farm progression (starting with simpler ones to efficiently get enough resources to build more complex ones). Even if you did, unlike in rpgs, one can lose progress in minecraft so easily that tool and armor progression can't be too long time wise for long-term worlds, people are already often choosing to not get netherite because they don't want to lose it. Also, unlike in an rpg, progression is not really the central piece of most sandboxes, they are allowed to be simple. Sandboxes by definition rely on intrinsic motivations a lot more than other genres. If you lock most of the actual content with a harsher progression system, you are changing the game genre.
Like... these are not bad ideas, but they don't belong in vanilla. They could be a plugin, a mod, anything, but on the scale from sandbox to rpg they shift Minecraft to rpg a little too much to preserve its identity.
Also, the weaker tiers of tools and armor are mostly used in maps and minigames. Nowadays you can set protection and damage values directly, so it's not as useful, but most still rely on them.
Also, different areas of the world have different difficulties, feeling weak and helpless is defined not only by your gear, but also by where you are (ig yous skill level as well). Having just iron in a big unlit cave can be terrifying, maybe even unenchanted diamond if you're not very good at the game.
I read all of this, and I remind you that this is MY personal solution. That’s the beauty of Minecraft. I don’t want vanilla Minecraft to be this when I can just make it myself. This is for my project, my art, so really, I have Mojang to thank for the amazing platform where I am able to create these things
I feel like too much of the progression relies on only mining and using the same cauldron. Giving rare enemies a purpose for killing them and adding more crafting systems would be good.
How do i download this data pack?
It’s not a datapack. It’s a mix of datapack and plugins working together on my server (which is not open. It’s in beta)
Thanks for the reply 👍
I've thought about some ideas for enchanting. For one, you should be able to level up any enchanting you already have. You have Unbreaking 1? Cool, you can upgrade that to an Unbreaking 3. Next, in order to enchant an item you have to find an enchanting book for the spell in order to know the enchantment recipe. You can find some in mines, some in some dungeons, some from villagers, and some are in the enchantment table by default. Maybe a random amount, idk. After that, you might need to do some puzzle in order to unlock the spell, where in you're practicing the magic. But that could be more mod-y than a datapack could handle.
When you find an enchanted book, it has stuff written in it which describes the lore behind the enchantment, as well as what it does. You'll find the books in areas that'll make sense for them. Aquatic ones in the Underwater Guardian Temples, mining ones in mines, and whatever else really fits the others. Maybe the text will be unreadable until you get enough xp, then it'll be translated into whatever language you're on. Though that might be a headache to get done.
Maybe you can skip a few early levels of enchanting, but you'll probably just go one up after you either use the tool enough or find a new book, but I think just the book you have having the upgrades already works, you just need to wait to get them or something. Maybe the pages are hidden until you solve another puzzle, which is randomized, but has the same sort of rules for each enchantment spell. Or maybe you just wait to get a higher XP level. Like 10 for low level, 30 for second, and 100 for the higher level enchantments. You don't spend all of those levels, you just can't read the book until then or something.
Maybe you'll also have to sacrifice some items in order to upgrade the spell, I don't know. That one I'm really not sure about, but I'll hear what everyone thinks.
My idea:
- make it so that you can only mine deepslate diamonds with diamond pickaxes
- add hardened gold, made with 1 gold and 2 iron, and can be used for tools that are better than iron but worse than diamonds
- you can only mine stone diamonds with hardened gold tools
This adds a use to golden tools and makes the step from iron to diamond longer
better than wolves 2
lost me at "No diamond ore and no nether"
Haha diamond ore will exist, likely in dungeons and alike. Netherite will be a bit trickier to implement
for villagers you could make it so u cant kidnap them and u have to protect and treat them for better trades, u could also make it so u have to upgrade villages with housing and wall ect to get better trades. for enchanting u could make certain items needed like a blaze rod for fire prot, a conduit for aqua affinity and an anvil for unbreaking
I really like the idea of this server, but I am not a fan of the way you set up to ban people for helping others or claiming land that blocks other players progression. I think direct punishment like that for players trying out different things negatively affects the experience, and there are better in-game ways to incentivate players to progress in the way that is intended. I will put here some ideas I have to help with the player to player interactions.
For one, make so the spawn area and surroundings are unclaimable. I would say this should be the case for anything under 1000 blocks of distance from 0 any_y 0, meaning new players have to explore out if they want to start building safely (therefore forcing them to make part of the game's progression since exploring out is dangerous, but leaving your stuff at spawn where anyone can rob and kill you also is). This might not be enough in the long run, however, since at some point spawn will become so destroyed and barren (think of 2b2t's spawn) that the basic resources required will be impossible to find at this area, so what you can do is make so random "pockets" of land/sea accross the WHOLE world (up to 30 MILLION blocks out) are unclaimable at random (this would be defined in a similar way as biomes and terrain is, using perlin noise as players load new chunks), meaning there will always be places that players cant just take over even outside of spawn. Another solution to complement this would be making so the "highways", basically near 0 any_y any_z or any_x any_y 0, are also unclaimable, and since they stretch all the way to the world border there will always be some land to make use of that isn't claimed.
For the problem of rich players giving away their stuff, I am not sure of a good way to solve that, but I have an idea of overhauling the experience system. Basically, experience would be much more useful than just enchanting stuff, it would also affect the yield of certain drops of mobs/ores when the player obtained them and large experience levels would be required for crafting stronger gear (above iron level), maybe make so even crafting beds require a certain XP level. Since XP is required for a lot of things but is always secondary (meaning, XP alone doesn't give you anything), it will be a very fluid progression system where you can get a lot of it very quickly or grind a lot to get it.
And what way to get experience very quickly? Killing people. The highest XP players will obviously give out more XP, but there will also be a second factor for experience drop on player's death: Reputation. Reputation starts at 0 when the player respawns and can become negative or positive depending on how they interact with other players and villagers (negative being thugs and psychos, positive being philanthropists and heroes), but regardless of what way it goes (- or +), the more extreme it is, the more XP you are worth when killed. So a rich guy handling out random stuff to new players is making himself a target for other rich players, including the ones he is giving his stuff to, since he is now turning himself into an XP pinnata as giving free stuff raises your reputation.
Reputation itself doesnt give the player more XP (meaning, reputation makes you drop more XP but you yourself dont get that XP, only your murderer) and always resets to 0 on death so you cant cheese an XP farm with it. However, it does have some niche uses, such as being able to seduce/intimidate villagers to give you better prices when your reputation is too high or too low, or maybe make it affect how you tame certain mobs (horses and wolves become easier to tame with high reputation, skeleton horses are the opposite) and other interactions (very low reputation makes iron golems attack you on sight, extreme reputation levels makes monsters detect you more easily, illagers attack you more frequently when you have high reputation, etc).
Your experience idea sounds interesting. I think reputation would be interesting too if we made it the complete opposite. Give out free food -> pillagers and wild animals come to crash the party.
I appreciate this extensive feedback. A reputation system may be difficult to implement, but I am leaning more towards “community driven” since when I wrote this script about a week or two ago.
I will, however, stand firm on punishing players for giving away too much stuff to new players. I think in my rule book, I make exceptions for like “your little brother who sucks at the game” but the purpose of this is so that people don’t ruin the progression experience for others.
@@TheGeekFactor_you have to elaborate on “To much stuff”, take for example a community which has a lot of resources between the players, if they have a community storage where there are some valuables that people new to this specific community are encouraged to take so that they can be of use, is that bannable? Cause if so then anything community oriented becomes so much harder or even impossible if you are force to wait for everybody to catch up, people are slow some may not play much and waiting for them may take hours, days even weeks depending on the person.
Or take it your going out to go mining and your friend joins the server and you give him armor and a pickaxe so he can come with and be useful, under the rules I genuinely don’t know where that stands, is getting your friend up to par bannable? Where is the limit between helping and giving away? Is helping a new player bannable?
I think it just makes forming communities in the first place harder, especially if you have a bunch of new people having to compete not only with each other, the already formed communities AND the amount of things they will have to do just to not be considered a new player.
Maybe I’m stupid and missed something, but you HAVE to specify what the limit is for a BANNABLE offense, people are rightly scared of bans and a ban like this discourages community building and makes people closed off, taking away from the community focus you may want.
I mean unless you want a semi-anarchy server we’re everyone is afraid of everyone else.
Everything else is alright if not a bit complicated for someone new, it definitely diverges from the creativity Minecraft is focused on (atleast early game) and that’s not bad, just different.
can I download this datapack?
crazy that this man fixed minecraft progression so well a lot of features are great i mean yeah there are some flaws like the missing enchanting and fishing but the new tools and the health from armor like that is actually really good i hope you will take your time for implementing more / new features
Fishing has its own, custom loot table in the server. Much more fair and balanced. It’s also like the only way to get prismarine blocks haha!
In terms of enchanting… I think that will be saved for the next video… :D
“3rd best tools” is kinda misleading when enchanting exists
No… it uh… isn’t misleading. Iron tools are the third best set of tools. That’s a factually correct statement. Anything you say about enchants can be applied to any weapon, so saying a enchanted netherite sword is like several levels above an iron sword becomes completely moot when you realize you can give an iron sword the same enchantments and thus… make it the 3rd best again.
@@TheGeekFactor_ if you’re speaking abstractly about material levels sure. It’s misleading when you wanna talk about progression though.
The unenchanted iron tool(which is what you’re talking about in the video) is going to be several levels below a decently enchanted one. Like I wouldn’t call an unenchanted netherrite set “the best in the game” because you still have a lot of work left to complete it.
It is definitionally the best set in the game. I totally understand what you’re saying but I think we can just agree to disagree
You know what would be amazing? Layers of armor, wearing multiple type of armors with different functionalities on top of one another. This would make chainmail super valuable because it'd be the best for defense while inner wearing it, adding to your other armor.
fr I was thinking something like that
What I though of was: first layer should be clothing, so like for insulation and whatnot, stuff such as leather or wool and string stuff for example. Second layer would be armor, and third layer would be accesories, such as belts for extra inv or extra hotbar space (?), necklaces (with some magic buffs or some shit, or if not it couldbe purely aesthetic ig lol), a backpack and that kind of stuff basically.
So I didn't hear you mention it, not sure if you've considered it but shipwrecks and buried treasure loot pools break your progression extremely easily. I heard you mention villagers and fishing but not other structures' loot pools.
I will not be touching this at all only because I personally enjoy the exploration of Minecraft more than progression and anything else, and modifying those loot pools to nerf them will nerf my enjoyment of the game. Tools are meant to assist enjoyment, not be all of it.
If it is all for your enjoyment though, more power to ya. As long as you're having fun there's nothing offensive about that. I wish you had said earlier in this video that other perspectives and opinions are fine to have, instead of jumping to defend yours so vigorously however.
Anyways, the most I could wish for is that this is a way you can feel more satisfied playing. Games are meant to be enjoyed and this one gives you that platform to do it the way you feel is best to accomplish that. I hope it provides you with that experience you seek and is most fulfilling. So definitely ignore any hate you get over you trying to find fun in a game you love and kudos to you for acting on making your dream for the game a reality❤️
Oh yeah the world is a custom world. There are no vanilla structures
You say enchanting and villagers are too op but thats why i like having certain books being locked by exploring. I like making a little town with all the villagers i need and needing to grind emeralds.
It feels worth it and its a goal
You interested in the Villager rebalance?
I definitely think Survival mode needs an update that fleshes out its core systems. As much as punching wood is core to Minecrafts identity, I don't think it makes for good gameplay. I really like the mod "Wooden tools are dumb" for this very reason; it forces you to feel weak and vulnerable and engage with the game more deeply. You have to traverse the land looking for water to get gravel to combine with sticks to create flint tools. This allows you to harvest wood, but wooden tools no longer exist. You have to get crafty and creative, something Minecraft is all about, to get stone.
As for iron, it should just be harder to obtain. Less plentiful. That way you'd likely want leather armor because you'd be naked for much longer otherwise. They could also find a way for chainmail to be more useful. It would also make iron armor and weapons feel more impactful when you find them in chests, especially the enchanted variety.
Lastly, an idea I've had kicking around is that maybe diamond and netherite gear should require recipe books in order to be crafted. They could be a common drop in chests found in dangerous structures. It would encourage exploration and prolong the lifespan of iron, which again, would make iron feel more impactful as a tier and prevent iron from feeling like just a pre-requesite to get diamond. Instead of creating a bunch of iron pickaxes and strip mining, you'd have to fully gear up and take on a couple structures, like trial chambers, to either find diamond armor and weapons in chests or find their templates to craft it yourself.
Iron bits simulates the experience of playing on a modpack.
I completely disagree with the progression being a flaw, imagine this scenario: you just got full diamond armor and tools with a couple good enchantments so you decide you can go into the nether, something goes horribly wrong and you lose all of your diamonds. You've Essentially lost everything you have, sire you still have a base and acouple things in a chest but its barely anything, so now if we use your progression idea a player in this very common scenario will take so long to regain that power that you might as well just make a new world, but with mojangs progression its just a good 30 minutes and then you're back to where you were! Minecrafts punishment for failure is so brutal that a short progression system is the only way to go
I think that could be solved by an enchantment or just always having you keep armor on death
Yea what these videos fail to account for is the more ridged and complex the tool progression becomes the worse it will be loosing you items.
In regular survival the feeling of loosing your good items is horrible.
Yes recrafting decent level tools isn't that hard but getting you specialized tools like the enchanted ones is a whole chore in of itself. So i think the games difficulty is fine. Loosing you stuff is already pushing enough.
Yeah and I typically don't play games to feel absolute dread and have to grind for hours just to get back to having fun
You can always set keepinventory on....
@@antonionegrea3554 True, but the game is balanced now not to be too aggravating with it off. I've played with both and enjoy both, but making keep inventory almost mandatory isn't a good idea in my opinion.
There still is an issue, and thats the item despawn timer. I dont want to die a little bit too far from the spawn and lose all my progress. Thats not fun. Generally, thats the biggest issue with minecraft. No matter how you adjust the difficulty, dying can lead you to quitting the world entirely. Thats objectively bad game design. Imo, thats the first thing that needs to be fixed when ''fixing'' minecraft. The best way to change it is by making it work like in terraria, have an item cap. It might not work that well on a server, but its still better than the timer.
Personally, my solution for ''fixing'' minecraft (excluding the despawn timer) is:
Stone tools require regular stone (that means you have to smelt cobbled stone and use wooden tools to get coal)
Ores smelt into nuggets, but blast furnace bypasses it and smelts into ingots.
To keep up with the ''special furnaces being useful'' trend, regular furnaces give you burnt food, but smokers give you cooked food.
Nerf blacksmith's loot, as you can get everything super quickly using it.
1 - 3 diamond nuggets drop from diamond ores instead of a full diamond. You need 9 nuggets to craft a full diamond.
Imo, thats enough. You dont need any fancy crafting recipes, just a rebalance.
I also have a data pack combo that makes everything like its above but brutal. Some examples: ores smelt into iron nuggets but you need blocks to craft tools. That means that a simple iron pickaxe costs 243 iron ore. The blast furnace thing still works tho. Shields now costs like 486 iron ore, I think its kinda fair because they are way too op. Also mobs are super strong and there is 1 in 3 chance that even stronger mob will spawn that does even more damage and is super fast. I wont explain everything, as it will take quite a while, but I can say that it makes you think about strategies on how to progress faster, and overall even existing not in your home can be super stressful. Nether especially. Oh and its so difficult that beds arent op anymore. I haven't had this much fun with minecraft in a long time.
I personally would likely not play with these changes, but I appaud the effort and creativity.
You should definitely make this a mod some day and make the items different textures. With these textures, organizing chests will become a nightmare!
Bed recipe for sure needs nerfed. Something simple would be to make sheep only drop wool when sheared, not killed. Still pretty easy to get but then you cant get to beds within a minute or two. I like the idea of adding feathers or string to the recipe too.
I also like the idea of starting with less hearts and having to earn more.
0:30 Dude's lagging while punching a tree and he's playing on hardcore mode
This plugin isn't my sort of thing, but I can totally see where you're coming from with these changes. I might try it. I'm more of a builder and intrinsicly motivated, so I'm interested to see how my playstyle would work here.
I have an alternative idea to the whole anti-cooperation idea. Make it to where if a player has not reached the achievement for a certain tool, that if given the tool it destroys itself. Or it automatically drops it. Perhaps temporary kick to either the player who gave it/ the player who received? (More ideas below, my favorite is the last one, but to one degree or another I like them all)
Whatever among these you decide, Perhaps some better alternative someone else will mention will win out, you can't just discourage community.
Note: As I was typing this, I realized the wealthier players could just drip feed equipment to noobs. So perhaps make it a requirement that players actually mine the material themselves.
Another possibility is to have different "worlds" within the world. You could segregate by player achievement level. For instance, those who haven't yet achieved Iron are only allowed in one part, and those who have are only allowed in another part.
Another Idea could be to find a way to prevent players from giving items to other players without a trading function. This trading function would require them to be of equivalent achievement level. So even if one player has a lot of materials and the other doesn't, at least both have proven on their own to a large enough degree that they have conquered the challenge of progression as you have laid out.
Take these ideas if you want, or not. I do like this idea of making early Minecraft more challenging.
suprised you didnt consider the problem i had so often that i never even went for iron. maybe new minecraft version is just way easyer but back then dealing with rng of needing to find sheap on spawn or waste 10 minutes afk was huge. and then dealing with rng to find coal made it so that i wasnt able to get iron for over an hour at least few times.
stone is the best. stone life forever