For the Record: Why I LEFT Adventism | Former SDA Pastor Haroldo Camacho | Ep. 1
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
- "For the Record" is a documentary-like interview series that allows former Adventist's to share why they left the Seventh-Day Adventist Church and where they are now.
What happens when a devoted Seventh-Day Adventist pastor and conference secretary stumbles upon the true meaning of the gospel? Join Dr. Haroldo Camacho (@haroldocamacho8593) as he recounts his eye-opening journey from a life steeped in Adventist doctrine to discovering the liberating truth of Christ's finished work.
Born into an Adventist family in Cartagena, Colombia, Haroldo was groomed for ministry, witnessing his father's fervent preaching and the church's emphasis on their special mission. However, his academic pursuits and deep dives into Greek biblical texts began to unravel the long-held beliefs he once cherished. From a rigorous exegesis of Hebrews 3-4 and Isaiah 53 to the profound realization that faith in Jesus Christ is the true Sabbath rest, Haroldo's story is a testament to the transformative power of the gospel.
Dr. Haroldo Camacho is a former Seventh-Day Adventist pastor turned Lutheran. He is retired and lives with his wife, Mercedes, and son, Orlando, in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. He obtained his doctorate from the School of Theology at Claremont in 1991 and served many years as a Certified Court Interpreter with the Judicial Council of California. He has translated Luther’s Commentary on the Epistle to the Galatians (1535) to both Spanish and English. The English commentary is available through 1517 Publishing.
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CHAPTERS:
0:00 - Who is Haroldo Camacho?
6:19 - Haroldo's Father Didn't Want Him to Be a Pastor
12:24 - Haroldo's Time at Atlantic Union College
15:39 - Haroldo's Time at the Adventist Seminary
22:05 - The Assignment
29:25 - The Paper
42:00 - Haroldo’s Missionary Experience in Peru
51:00 - The Gospel and the Investigative Judgment
53:00 - The Gospel and the Sabbath
57:35 - It's Easier to Fool Someone Than to Convince Them They've Been Fooled
1:02:45 - Discovering Robert Brinsmead
1:09:00 - What Was Your Experience as a Conference Secretary?
1:40:24 - The Devil's Doctrine in Disguise
1:44:57 - A Call to Seventh-Day Adventists
____________________________________________________
The Gospel of Jesus Christ:
Man is a sinner (Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8) and our sin has separated us from our Maker (Isaiah 59:2). In His grace, God entered into His own creation in the person of Jesus Christ (John 1:1-14; Col. 1:19), born of a virgin (Matt. 1:23), and lived a perfect and sinless life, fulfilling all the Law’s demands (2 Cor. 5:21; Matt. 5:17), on a mission by God the Father to save sinners from condemnation (John 3:16-18, 6:37-40). He paid the penalty for sin which is death (Romans 6:23) and bore the sins of His people in His body on a cross (1 Peter 2:24), making propitiation by His blood (Romans 3:25). He died, was buried, and resurrected in the same body He died in on the third day for our justification (1 Cor. 15, Romans 4:25; Luke 24:39). By a living faith (James 2:18) in the Person and Work of Jesus (Romans 10:9-10), God graciously declares a person righteous (Romans 4:5), they are reconciled to their Creator (Romans 5:10-11), given Christ’s righteousness in full (Phil. 3:8-9), sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13), and have peace with God (Romans 5:1). They are born again of the Spirit (1 John 5:1, Titus 3:5), adopted into His family (Eph. 4:5-7), and are granted eternal resurrection life in Jesus Christ (1 John 5:11), set free to do good works that please Him (Eph. 2:10; 1 John 2:3-4). Jesus will physically return one day to judge the living and the dead (1 Peter 4:5; Acts 24:15; John 5:24-5), throwing the wicked out of His Kingdom (Matt. 13:41-3), but His people will be spared from the wrath to come (1 Thess. 1:10) to dwell in union with God forever (Rev. 21:3).
#documentaries #jesustestimony #testimonial #sda #adventist
Yes more testimonies please! Miles you need a testimonies playlist 👏🏻 👏🏻 love hearing how others had similar revelations to the truth.
This is only episode 1. The For the Record playlist is here: czcams.com/play/PLoOrfAxSIEdAJ1gTNV-Z6L0it9g35fNkm.html&si=WCDFfeuSjH_c6TAD
@@answeringadventism
A lot of Black activist are preaching against the versions of Scripture we now have due to their knowledge of slavery.
How then are we to be sure if your version of Christianity is correct in the light of this ..
They are also pointing to the correct name of the HEAVENLY FATHER that we should use so how do we know who is preaching truth ?
Most of them are also preaching about keeping Seventh Day Sabbath so what will you say about that ?
@@answeringadventismMiles, is there a way to possibly message you privately? I don’t feel comfortable publicly posting for many reasons. If not, to possibly lead me to someone who can answer questions. Thank you for your channel.
@@Deed_and_Truth visit our website and contact us through there: answeringadventism.com
So beautiful his description of that revelatory experience of thoroughly studying Hebrews 3 & 4, "entering the Sabbath rest", brought tears to my eyes as I quoted the text right along with him... remembering being overcome myself with that truth: Jesus is our permanent rest from striving for our salvation. It is a gift from God that we enter His rest forever.
True rest for the soul. 🙌🏽
Thank you for sharing with us this deeply moving and touching testimony of Dr. Camacho. I will be looking for him at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. ❤
This was such a wonderful testimony. God bless Dr. Camacho. His experiences are profound and very telling.
Bout to purchase your book. Handing in plain sight, and I can’t wait 😊
@@yardgunner4033 praise God. You will love them. Happy reading.
This is awesome! Every adventist needs to watch this.
They won’t even click on it
@@yardgunner4033 because they are nervous it will throw them into a state of doubt and wreck their false worldview? I'm sure you are right.
Explosive interview!! 💥💥💥💥💥 Dr. Camacho was dropping 💣💣💣💣 all over the place! And your questions were outstanding! Love the format! What a way to kick off the series! I'm excited to see the next episode!
So sad he dropped the Holy Bible's truths, and is going into darkness, just like his mentor, Robert Brinsmead did.
So sad you are ensorcelled by the ungodly confused clumsy hot mess that is Adventism.
@@statutesofthelord Brinsmead wasn’t his mentor. Thanks for evidencing and further proving our theory that Adventists might be some of the worst listeners in the world.
He said he attended some Brinsmead meetings along his journey of wrestling with scripture. But that hasn’t stopped you from spam posting in the comments.
@@statutesofthelordyou sound like the passive aggressive party in a relationship.
@@answeringadventism Mr. Camacho spent several minutes in the video explaining how Robert Brinsmead helped him in his journey. If "mentor" is the incorrect word, what would be the correct word to use?
Wow, this was one of the best testimonies I have heard ❤
Dr. Camacho exudes so much joy, I could listen to him speak for hours.
He had a true Hebrews 4:12 experience, which is available for us all, if we allow the Word of God ALONE to speak us 🙏
So excited for this new series!
Bot sure what that means
So sad he left Jesus, just like his mentor - Robert Brinsmead did.
@@statutesofthelord
Wow that’s your response after all he has revealed?
@@cindycarpenter332 cindy, Did he reveal that Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath, and Jesus is our perfect example?
Were you aware that his mentor, Robert Brinsmead, became an Agnostic Atheist later after rejecting all the truth in Ellen White's writings and the Holy Bible?
@@statutesofthelord Please refrain from accusing people of things that you have no proof of.
You have no idea what is in his heart, only God does.
Remember that we will all give an account for all of the empty words that we speak, remember that before commenting next time.
This was absolutely amazing. I loved his story how he came to true understanding of Hebrews 3 and 4, and his awesome explanation of the gospel! May God continue to bless him! And thank you Myles and team for all you do!
❤
Wonderful video illustrating the beauty of the true Gospel. Camacho also brings up why I generally don't bother discussing the sabbath with an SDA member. It is their identity. They need to come to terms with the sabbath themselves after coming to know the true Gospel.
I feel like I'm listening to a audio book. I got my master's in 2023 and don't remember my classes as well as he does
The older generation has amazing memory. My dad still remembers what he did in 1985 lol
@@AbisJourneyFor real! I think perhaps it’s how much we distract ourselves. My dad is 81 and last week described in detail who he lost the valedictorian spot to and even the GPA difference. 😂
Heck yeah I'm so SO glad you're doing this. It's literally always their fall back "oh they left because they got fired over something and are just bitter"
Total lies! I was SDA for 27 years. Literally did not have any fallouts or bitter things happen at all; in fact when I started to learn how adventism was a different gospel after my husband and I had such an amazing encounter with the Lord and September 2020 when he officially got saved, it was reading the Bible every day chapter by chapter *in context* (something I had never done before) that opened my eyes to questioning SDA doctrine, that ultimately caused me to make the decision to unhinging myself from the Adventist church
In fact, around that time, I had actually actually gained more Adventist friends and connections than ever before, it had nothing to do with being hurt or bitter over anything
Robert Brinsmead, Mr. Camacho's mentor, is basically an Agnostic Atheist today.
Beware!
❤
That may well be the best presentation of inside Adventism that I have ever heard -- and I've heard hundreds. Magnificus!
Bravo Dr. Camacho! You are sincere and courageous, and your testimony is not only powerful and full of truth, but also is delightful to listen to! Thank you so much for this!
He is such an awesome man. So grateful to have captured this
May this interview press through thé heart and lens od adventism i pray dear Lorf❤❤❤
This is what needs to be spread. Not the great controversy.
Amen
I love around minute 24:30 or so when he mimics the instructions of one of his former teachers who would not allow them to use any non-SDA material. Great impersonation!
This is the meat, Myles. Resonates with soooooo many.
A truly amazing and wonderful testimony. All glory to the Triune God. Much of what Dr. Camacho said theologically including his personal lived experience is very close to my own life. I also left the Adventist movement in 2001 after the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the True Gospel and breathed life into my soul.
So so so good. More videos of testimonies like this Myles…a testimony speaks volumes! Especially from former pastors. Thanks
I agree, more like this!
This is only episode 1. Buckle up 🙂
Thank you for this interview. What he said about conference administration is still true...at least in my experience.
Thank you for sharing your story with us, Dr. Camacho! The joy of the LORD shines through you.
Dale Ratliffe addressed some of these same concerns about the investigative judgment with his fellow pastors and leaders of the church prior to his departure from Adventism. He was advised to just go along, collect his check....Dr. Camacho does not mince words... Adventism is not the gospel of God.
The Adventist Gospel is 1844, investigative judgement and Sabbath keeping. Saved maybe if you are good enough.
No one is ever good enough to face God. Only the thing adventists reject, the blood of Jesus, justifies.
Kudos Myles on this interview ❤❤❤
Adventist here: I must tell you that most of the Adventist around me have had serious issues with some of our doctrines. Funny because when I started sharing my doubts and this channel to some of them they were like well we have been thinking about this and that for a while. Beautiful explanation of the word gospel.
I left Adventism too because my wife was practicing witchcraft on me and I disagreed with the teachings of AE.G., White, and the major doctrines of the cult.
This is a great format and interesting interview. It be great to hear him go deeper into how the SDA theology is anti-gospel.
The story with the paper on Hebrews 3/4😂😂 this story is so good
It's very common in SDA theology departments and seminaries.
Fabulous testimony! True exegesis triumphs! Great sound and specisl effects, Myles.
Thanks Pastor Camacho for sharing your testimony.. Yes SDA's 3 angels msg is not the Gospel of Christ
I enjoy it a lot. An interview to share everywhere. In fact, I shared it to all my Facebook groups in Spanish and English. Thank you and keep up with this kind of interviews. In fact with my husband we had lots of suffering and oposición throughout all the time we were in the sect. But, we didn’t left until we realize that Ellen was a lie and we compared their teachings with the Bible. We are so glad and happy enjoying the Christian life assisting to a Lovely Christian Church.
He has his own Spanish Chanel in You Tube.
Love these types of videos. I am particularly interested in the exact arguments that convinced people that adventism isn’t true. 👍
The Bible is the best argument and then the writings from the early church.
When I started reading Martin Luther, then Justin Martyr and then Other early church writers…it blew my mind that these early 2nd century Christians didn’t believe at all like Adventist…and yet they were willing to die for Jesus…all that just didn’t add up in my mind. How could error have crept into the church and the setting of persecution? If the sabbath still stood, wouldn’t these people have kept it at that time? It was quite eye-opening to me to read early church writing.
Robert Brinsmead was completely apostatized by 1972 when he denied Ellen White and even parts of the Bible.
Robert Brinsmead later went into just grace theology, then he started to doubt all Christianity, then in the 1980s he said he wasn't even sure if there was a God at all, then in the 1990s he said he thinks there might be a God because there are some good things in this world.
That is the result of believing his teaching, and sadly, Mr. Camacho is headed down that same path. Let's pray he repents and turns back to the truth soon!
Its comments liké yours that 💯 prove adventism IS a psuedo Christian cult wake up From Ur indoctrination
@@statutesofthelordInstead u listen to what a PHD Professor one who taught pastors adventism doctrines boldly states thé Bible original language debunk adventism doctrines. Hère u R picking on someone's ideology. Which IS not thé focus hère. Typical cultic behavior. Stop being lazy and bé a berean as thé bible admonished 😮
Miles, you are doing God's work, seriously. I was an Adventist for almost 40 years since I was a child and this might be the first time where I truly understand why I had to leave. I can't align with anyone who preaches another gospel. I was deeply attached as a teacher and a music minister, and youth leader. I was riding deep as they used to say. Thank God for Dr. Camacho's testimony. I feel peace for the first time because I have released the soul tie and false identity I had with this group. I pray the rest of my family can get out, In Jesus Name, Amen.
Thank you.
Excellent work.
Very few Adventists have read or studied Hebrews.
Most have no idea what its theme is.
You are wrong, Adventists have studied Heberws just last year, and have been studying it since the establishment of the church, but, they study it through the illumination of the spirit of the dead prophet Ellen, ever reading and never able to come to the knowledge of truth found in that book😢😢😢😮
@@19818456 Interesting.
I was Adventist for many years and the book of Hebrews was never studied as a whole.
Cherry picked verses were always cited and looked up.
To study through Ellen's lens is to not study it otherwise they would know the main theme of the whole book: The Atonement Work and Covenant of Christ is complete and superior to everything prior.
Thanks for your input.
Wonderful. Thank you both!
💀💀💀💀💀 "it's all there in the GREEK DR BLANCO" 💀💀😂😂😂
This is an amazing story, and it has convinced me all the more that Adventism is false. I wonder if I can get any of my SDA family members to watch this to hopefully put that seed of doubt into their minds that maybe the SDA church could be false.
What might be false about SDA doctrine?
@@statutesofthelordso many its kinda hard to count them all on two hands let alone one.
What a fabulous work of God is your testimony. Let’s find some time to pray for our SDA friends. Most mean so well. Quite a few are in a state of confusing cognitive dissonance.
Amen and amen!
Excellent. Very useful for those averse to taking the direct theological road.
Let's goooooooo!
What a fantastic episode Myles! Thank you for sharing Pastor Camacho with us. 🕊️🙏
He will be back for a livestream in the future.
It’s 2 a.m. and I’m watching this fascinating interview. Thank you!!
Awesome!
I saw him interview on of the Spanish channels and loved it. I’m glad he’s sharing his testimony, specially in Spanish because there’s not a whole lot out there and our Spanish countries are still pretty fundamentally SDA
He’s going to translate some of our materials possibly!
@@answeringadventismif so that will be awesome!
@@answeringadventismthis would be amazing. I have so many family members still in Adventism. Having Spanish content to send to them would be a game changer.
I left Adventist after 35 years realizing that they teach another Jesus not the biblical Jesus . God helped to see truth amen thank you Jesus It’s a cult run from it every one
It is BECAUSE of Hebrews that I ended up over at Solberg's, which eventually led me here to THIS channel to learn more about these mysterious SDA people who wholesale reject Hebrews - book I consider a literary masterpiece & the "Rosetta Stone" (so to speak) for interpreting the rest of the Bible. It still perplexes me, quite frankly, (i.e. SDA rejection of Hebrews), & I thank Mr. Camacho for his testimony & for shedding more light on this pivotal salvific issue.
Somebody gave you false information, because the SDA Church doesn't reject Hebrews at all. SDA interpetation of Hebrews is the most biblically-based among any major denomination in the world.
@@statutesofthelord Congrats you just admitted that SDA reinterprets Hebrews to suit its own heretical premises. Yeah I didn't need anyone to tell me that - I saw it every day in Solberg's comment sections. SDAs either completely ignore any mention of Hebrews & WILL NOT ADDRESS IT, or they reveal that they "interpret" the passages to say the DIAMETRIC OPPOSITE of what they ACTUALLY say.
@kimartist welcome to engaging an SDA. You obviously didn’t mean they don’t CLAIM to uphold the Bible, including Hebrews, but that they twist the whole of it to fit with their own narrative and extra biblical paradigm.
An Adventist then takes this and says “No WE DINT REJECT HEBREWS!!!! We have the most robust understanding of anyone in the world!”
I’m glad you ended up here having never been an SDA so you can see how it isn’t Christian.
@@kimartist kim, I wrote: "the SDA Church doesn't reject Hebrews at all. SDA interpetation of Hebrews is the most biblically-based among any major denomination in the world."
Perhaps you didn't read it carefully.
@@statutesofthelord Au contraire I read the words between the lines with laser-focused precision. Translation: Gaslighting does not work here. Nice try though 🏆👈😃👍
Wow!!! Just wow. I have now shared this to everyone 😁
It's so interesting hear him speak about that the Gospel and Adventist doctrine cannot coexist. BINGO. He's right. This is precisely the point of Galatians 4:21-31 in which Paul draws compares the two Covenants with Sarah and Haggar. "These things are being taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery - this is Hagar. Now Hagar represents Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother" Galatians 4:24-26.
This passage culminates with Paul's quote of Genesis 21:10 when declaring that: "DRIVE OUT THE SLAVE AND HER SON FOR THE SON OF THE SLAVE WILL NEVER BE A COHEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN" Galatians 4:30.
It doesn't say "be friends with" or "be roommates with" or "tolerate", or any kind of hybrid relationship.
It's clear. Once more: "DRIVE OUT the slave and her son....".
In coming across this passage, they Holy Spirit made its presence known. That was the unequivocal sign which ultimately drove me to leave Adventism.
It's stunning to me how much of the New Testament is either direct quotes or subtle references to Old Testament passages, the only difference being reading those passages in light of Christ, who is the SUBSTANCE of those things that were just shadows (priest, sacrifice, Sabbath, creation, temple, etc).
@@dustins382 What a great point. Indeed Jesus is ALL of those things!
I was a coordinator for adventurers for 2 years, I enjoyed it, I also enjoyed potluck. I first left when a woman who worked at an Adventist hospital (serious issue/trigger warning).... told me that she had filed a procedure for payment reasons many times, without knowing these were abortions. I found out these were not miscarriages, but the SDA church profits from elective abortions. I knew that's not Christianity, and they are trying to normalize this, but rape and incest don't suddenly increase by 550% from one year to the next. I started studying Ellen White, and found out just how incredibly false of a prophetess she was. Adding her entire "health message" to the book of Revelation. False teachings, plagiarism, undermining the work of the cross (it is finished... John 19:30) and inventing this extra work he started in 1844, putting Fannie Bolton into an asylum because she started to speak up about plagiarism (silencing a whistleblower). Etc... But certainly not from hurt or bitterness. I enjoyed potluck, although in retrospect, didn't notice the connection of potluck to 1 Timothy 4:3, forbidding foods being a doctrine of demons.
Ya know.. I’ve recently read hebrews 4, and 10. Just recently. It has always been there. I’ve read it before I’m sure but with this thirst for truth as I have had these last several months. Why does such a chapter shock me.. well it left me in a state of shock. There’s a sense of joy.. and a sense of sadness. Idk.
I know exactly what you mean. This was me when reading Romans 5, 7 and 8. Total shock. I was like... this, right here and what's it's saying, is not what I've been taught and understood my whole life.
I understand what you mean exactly. There is immense joy in understanding and accepting the gospel. The counter to that in an Adventist setting is knowing that you will be leaving an identity and friends and family behind for the gospel of Christ. But rest assured Jesus IS ENOUGH and better than anything else there is.
God bless you.
@@bbsvchic Galatians and Hebrews did it for me. It is so clear, I was in disbelief that this was there all along and I didn't see it.
Now I understand that I was not born again and was spiritually dead so I literally couldn't see what was right there.
Same here
@@Kcheatsheet yep exactly!!!!! For me the seed started with Romans 14
These testimonies are gold! Thank you for your testimony🙏
Interesting
Thank you Myles for sharing this - so good to hear this man’s testimony - demonstrating again ( contrary to what many Adventists will admit or even realise) that the bible is not enough for SDA’s - everything has to be through the lens of Ellen White !
Ralph Larson and Herbert Douglass were from the traditional/conservative historic SDA side. But Hebrews 4 does not teach that the 7th day sabbath is abolished. In its historical context the writer was addressing Jewish Christians, he was not saying the 7th day sabbath is abolished. How does Dr Camacho justify going to church on Sunday as the Lutherans and most other Christians do? Nowhere in the NT does God or Christ say we must worship on Sunday, that was brought into Christianity sometime in the 2nd century after the NT apostles died. And Sunday was adopted by Imperial and papal Rome. What is Dr Camacho's view on texts like Revelation 12:17? Even Des Ford continued with the 7th day unlike Dale Ratzlaff and others. But Dr Camacho's experience of the internal politics at the conference office was interesting and revealing! I enjoyed his explanation of Gospel in Isaiah 52-53 which I agree with. The NT teaches both justification by faith [Romans 3-5] and doing righteousness [1 John 2-3]. Reformation Evangelicals need to get the balance there.
@@JK-tr2mt Dr. Camacho literally stated that Larson and Douglass were orthodox SDAs (what you call conservative). Where was that argued? This was Haroldo sharing his testimony/story.
As to Hebrews 3-4, again, I’m not sure if you listened. He explained this. No, Hebrews 4 doesn’t support seventh day sabbatarianism. And on this platform we have done an exegesis of the whole chapter showing this. Adventists misuse and abuse Hebrews 4 to pigeonhole in their theology.
They read verse 4 and skip to verse 9 to try and claim the author is saying the seventh day sabbath mentioned in verse 4 is what remains in verse 9. Which demonstrates the dangers of not actually walking through a text fully.
So does he no longer observe the 7th day Sabbath?
Right. Per the New Testament we are no longer required to keep the Sabbath:
Rom 14:5-6 _"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it"_
@@NoSundayLawComing That's so sad. He, you, and most Christians follows false "Apostle" Paul, not our Messiah. Can you show me where our Messiah, or the real Apostles, or the Old Testament Scriptures said the law would be done away? No? Satan sure deceived the Church, turning you all into lawless by infiltrating the Church via Saul/Paul.
Awesome testimony!!!!
This is great brother.
Great stuff
😮oooh, aharrr!!
Gold!!!!!
Hello all
This is a credible source
Still current Saturn worshippers will deny him.
55:50 "Sabath is the part of adventist DNA" because it is important and forgotten in christianity part of the 10 Commandments
Is he saying we dont have to follow all 10 commandments?
Yes, he's saying you can pick and choose, similar to what his mentor, Robert Brinsmead said before he went further and said we don't have to keep any, and eventually he wound up an Agnostic Atheist.
@@statutesofthelordwhy are you spamming this with irrelevant tangentials?
@@statutesofthelordhe’s not saying it all. He’s trying to make you realize that Jesus is the Sabbath and our Sabbath rest. When you remember Jesus, you are remembering the sabbath.
There are more then just 10 moral laws to follow , the 4th commandment is the only non moral law within the 10 and many more moral laws outside the 10. Again there are more then just 10 moral laws. As true christians we are not under the law. Yet we are not lawless, but follow the law of Christ. JESUS is our sabbath rest. If we gather on Saturday, Sunday or Tuesday it really doesn't matter in the new covenant gentile church
Ur not a commandement keeper u just broke thé 9th commandement. Hé Saïd No such things. Stop it
CUC is still in existence now it's just WAU Washington Adventist university
This man simply misunderstands Catholic teaching on justification. He is wrong when he described the “Roman Catholic” (which is a pejorative) doctrine on justification, it’s not even close to what we believe and is fabricated whole cloth.
In fact, Lutherans and Catholics are in agreement on justification. I assume he is ignorant rather than purposefully misrepresenting, but in 1999 there was a “joint declaration on the doctrine of justification” which was signed between the Catholic Church and the Lutheran World Federation which declared doctrinal agreement on justification, and since then World Methodist Council (2006) and the World Communion of Reformed Churches (2017) have also signed on to the declaration. We should not be causing division and misrepresenting one another on this point.
He seems like a lovely man and I just believe it's ignorance and probably a bit of "left over baggage" from adventism. If Adventists properly understood what Catholics teach, they'd cease to be Adventists. I'm not Catholic (I'm Orthodox) but I have to defend Catholics often against ridiculous Adventist strawmen. Wild conspiracy theories about St Constantine, or even St Ignatius! I had an Adventist once tell me "(St) Ignatius could've been one of those wolves warned about in Acts 20:29" regarding his letter to the magnesians where he says"we no longer observe the Sabbath but instead the Lord's Day".
So you can't really blame a person for being confused and having leftover baggage. All we can do is like you're doing here, clarify the truth and be charitable towards others.
@@dustins382 God bless you brother! Much love from the west!
Saturday cult they worshiped the day more than Jesus shame on you Sda
The pastor did not give a convincing argument other than his personal opinion. And what he did say was the same old anti-SDA oh-hum. I love my Adventist journey of 38 years and it has been a wonderfully Christ-centered experience with my wife and raising two sons in the church.
I'm staying on board the remnant SDA ship with Jesus at the helm, it's biblically logical.
(Let's see if this comment get deleted)
I'm not SDA but my friend is. So I have read the great controversy series and you know what I noticed? EGW's visions of heaven are very similar to Joseph Smith's and that many of the SDA doctrines are very similar to LDS doctrine. So I did some digging and found out that EGW had .ormon relative and that EGW came out of the methodist church as did Joseph Smith. Both EGW and Joseph Smith claim to start having visions as adolescents. Both EGW and Joseph Smith had strong ties to masonry (EGW and her husband both have masonic headstones). SDA also shares doctrines with Jehovahs Witnesses. I find it really amusing that all three of these religions are so similarcand all three clainto be the one true church and how none of the three actually foow the bible and rely on the extra biblical texts in how they interpret scripture. SDA, JW, and LDS all share very similar doctrines and their prophets all have very similar or identical visions of heaven. All three claim to be the revenant church. But when you research all three of these churches you find out that call three have false prophets leading them ecaus3xall three churches have failed prophecies and extra biblical I terpretati9ns of the scriptures that add to the Bible and twist beyond recognition scripture. When you read the Bible outside the writings of these so called prophets ou find that none of the doctrines these churches are built on are actually in the bible. All have a twisted version of justification and sanctification and all give Lucifeecway more power than any created being actually has and all three subjugate and diminish the divinity of Jesus Christ, making Him less God than the father. So ridiculous when you read the Bible without the corrupted lens of these three religions. I also find it interesting how all three religions discourage their member from testing their prophets the way the bible says you should. Because when you test the EGW against he biblical test of a prophet she fails. EGW's plagerism of Joseph Smith who was also a plagerist is proof enough for me of how false a prophet she is. SDA's, like LDS and JW, are good people but so deceived and all deceived in the exact same ways. But none of these religions realize that they share many of the same deceptive beliefs and doctrines brcaus3 all.are discouraged from question8ng their prophets so they don't know it. You know how I know this? Because I was raised JW tem my mom converted to LDS so I was LDS then I left that church when I found out the truth about Joseph Smith then when my SDA friend introduced me to EGW's writings, I immediately saw the simarities and when I read EGW's visions of heaven, I compared them to Joseph Smith's visions and found them to be almost identical. That made me research EGW's history and then I knew she was as false a prophet as Joseph Smith especially since she used and the SDA church uses the exact same tactics in discouraging it's members from testing the prophet and both hide the actual history so their members don't know how neither followed their own health messages. The hypocrisy of both EGW and Joseph Smith was astoundingcand the fact that both churches try to bury the hypocrisy is horrific. So many people ate being mislead by these false prophets and their unbiblical doctrines.
This wasn’t an argument. It was a person sharing their story. It helps if you actually pay attention within the first 10 seconds to see what the thesis of what you’re engaging with is actually about.
“His profound opinion”
Uh, yeah that’s what a personal testimony is. It’s someone’s own personal experience.
“Let’s see if this comment gets deleted”
Such a joke. Why would we do that? We love when SDAs comment stuff like this. It gives Christian’s an example of what engaging with an SDA will be like. Off topic, confused, etc.
So what's your conclusion or explanation to all of the SDA pastors who have left the SDA church simply based on biblical tension with SDA doctrine and not because of a "falling out"? To literally give up your livelihood, your career, your degrees, that's a really big deal and that doesn't happen just because somebody had a tiff or tension with a person. That's a really strong conviction. And you should probably investigate that.
That's the point of this series. The SDA church will try to brush all of it off as "they're just bitter or angry". But when you listen to the stories, it had nothing to do with that, and it was simply about seeing the contradictions of SDA teaching, which comes from Ellen White, and how it contradicts biblical text that's the point of this series is to show people that they left not because of a fallout, but simply because of the Bible.
@@mpattilo bingo, isn't it also fascinating how all three "prophets" will discourage their followers from doubting them and use very manipulative, spiritual language of if you doubt or if you go against these teachings, you are going against God himself? Youll be deceived and lost etc... God encourages us to test his word because it will ring true and consistent because the truth is not afraid to be questioned.
fort, God bless you as you stay strong in the truth.
You mean Ted Taliban??
Funny what poeple wil do for money.or even just to be heard. Anything goes.
Typical of someone who IS indoctrinated, u choose to attacking thé character but ignore thé message.
The Sabbath does not cease with the plan of Salvation. That is a lie. The Sabbath rest is everlasting.
Hère u go again . If Ur référencing to thé physical rest as adventism believes u have subscribed to thé letter of thé Law.Something made/created IS not eternal. Christ IS thé SABBATH. WE rest in his finished work
The Bible literally says the sabbath was a shadow and that Christ is the substance. Congruent perfectly with Hebrews 3 and 4. Colossians 2:16-17. What's the confusion?
@@bbsvchic bbs, Did Jesus keep the 7th day Sabbath holy?
Christ cam3 not to do away with 5he law, he came to fulfill it. Matt. 5:18,19
@@randolphsloan2263 randolph, please proofread your comment, as you are giving a poor witness with all the mistakes.
This vacancy of truth is evident in no accountability to Isaiah 8:20 and Matt. 5:18, 19. The book of Hebrews can never replace Torah Sabbath. Yahshuah Is the Torah.
Strawman fallacy.
Ceremonial laws in the torah have stopped as also did animal sacrafices, , kosher laws, temple worship etc. The 4th commandment is ceremonial and not moral. Only moral laws are eternal , just like they were before Abraham was born into this day
He said Spirit of Prophecy is better than the Bible to SDA? What a big fat lie.. Satan is the father of all lies..
Notice you didn’t give his full statement. He said he was speaking generally because THAT WAS HIS EXPERIENCE. Are you not aware of what a testimony is? Someone sharing their own experience?
Yes, Satan is the father of all lies. And he twists people’s words like you just did.
As a former 3rd Generation SDA my departure from Adventism is the day I realized SDA are no better than the Catholic Church who changed the truth of God into a lie. “And no wonder for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”
When did the Catholic Church change the truth of God into a lie?
I think you may have left Adventism but still retain its anti-Catholicism.
If adventism is of the devil, and it hates the Catholic Church that maybe should indicate the nature of the Catholic Church.
Can you imagine a false prophet who, inspired by the devil preaches the evils of Methodists or Baptists or Pentecostals? Everyone knows intuitively that that would be ridiculous. That’s because they are not the primary target of the devil, and are largely inoffensive to him as they are man made institutions with man made traditions. But the church Christ Himself instituted? That would logically be the target of every attack and slanderous lie from hell. Then look to which church fits that description and I think you have a pretty obvious answer.
Do you disagree?
When you know nothing about the Catholic church just stop spreading more of the lies EGW forced all you SDA.
Stop lying like your prophet
@@SevereFamine Do some research. In the latter 4th century when Pope Damasus 1 commissioned a priest by the name of Jerome to revised the Vetus Latina (Latin Texts) then in use by the church which resulted in the Latin Vulgate and later promulgated as the CC official Bible from which Eramus translated into Greek and known as the Textus Receptus from which most Bibles today come from either directly or indirectly.
Robert Brinsmead was correct in his teaching of Justification and Sanctification and the Investigative Judgment in the mid-late 1960s. He started to go wobbly in 1968 or 9, then was completely apostatized by 1972 when he denied Ellen White and even parts of the Bible.
Robert Brinsmead later went into just grace theology, then he started to doubt all Christianity, then in the 1980s he said he wasn't even sure if there was a God at all, then in the 1990s he said he thinks there might be a God because there are some good things in this world.
That is the result of believing his teaching, and sadly, Mr. Camacho is headed down that same path. Let's pray he repents and turns back to the truth soon!
No he isnt lol
Dr. Camacho is a Lutheran and has written scholastic works on Lutheran theology. Robert Brinsmead was a tertiary part of his story and leaving Adventism, not the root cause. He left 30 years ago.
But not surprised an Adventist entirely misses the point to latch onto whatever they can find to stir up falsities.
@@answeringadventism answering, There are many people following false leaders. By their works ye shall know them. Look at Muhammad, look at the popes, look at Smith, look at Brinsmead, look at Koresh. The world is filled with their examples.
In contrast, those who look to Jesus Christ will never fall into error.
@@statutesofthelordsense the SDA church is a cult and because they are a cult even with a false prophetess(woman prophet? Yep a false woman leader) so all leaders in that movement would be false teachers by default. Extra sad, so many decieved by one woman and her imaginary lies. You just can't make this craziness up
@@statutesofthelordyou forgot Ellen g white in your comment
@@mfrieza2842 mfrieza, Ellen White passes all the tests of being a true prophet of the Lord.
To understand the " rest" in Heb 4 you must read Heb 3. Because of our hardness of heart of unbelief in Gods power to defeat sin, we provoke Him and we will NOT enter into this " Land of Canaan" or eternal life . This eternal rest is NOT the Sabbath day rest that was sanctified and blessed at the creation. This rest is from Satan and all his temptations he hurls at after he is destroyed . You may not believe this but please read ALL of Hebrews not just 4 and 5 . Why would Jesus want to destroy His ETERNAL LAW of which the Sabbath day is an integral part Ex 20: 8-11 Isa 66:22 23. DONT BE DECIEVED by men but read the Bible for yourselves.
Praise God >>> I believe in the Holy Spirit ...The spirit of Prophecy and NOT Ellen White.....Please brethren look into the Italians role in Christianity..... Christianity is Paganism....Read the Bible including the Apocrypha and get to Know the Almighty God for yourself 🐑🐑🐑
Sounds like the devil to me.
How very sad. By a verse in Hebrews, he no longer obeys the Commandments. He and almost all Christians follow false self-appointed apostle Paul and whoever wrote Hebrews, and not our Messiah. Our Messiah never taught saved by grace alone. Our Messiah said if you love me, obey the commandments. He said not one jot or tiddle is done away. He said he did not come to do away with the law.
The SDA teaches many false things and relies heavily on Ellen White. She was a plagiarist, liar, false prophetess, and false teacher. Our Messiah said he was sole Teacher. But one thing Ms White got correct is the need to observe the Sabbath.
I encourage you to test apostle Paul. Rev 2:2 is about him. Follow our Messiah, not Paul, or Joseph Smith, or Mohammad, or EG White, or anyone else that teaches contrary to our Messiah.
You obviously dont know what your talking about at all. If you throw out Paul, you also have to throw out Peter, james and all the GOSPELS. You probably deny the deity of JESUS also.
Some try to argue that the picture Paul paints of Jesus in his Epistles does not match the Christ portrayed in the Gospels. Such a position could not be further from the truth. In fact, two of the Gospels (Mark and Luke) were written by men who were close associates of Paul’s, if not actual students of his (see 2 Timothy 4:11). It’s hard to imagine that those books would contain a theology different from Paul’s. Also, from Paul’s letters, we learn the following of Jesus:
• He had Jewish ancestry
• He was of Davidic descent
• He was born of a virgin
• He lived under the law
• He had brothers
• He had 12 disciples
• He had a brother named James
• He lived in poverty
• He was humble and meek
• He was abused by the Romans
• He was deity
• He taught on the subject of marriage
• He said to love one’s neighbor
• He spoke of His second coming
• He instituted the Lord’s Supper
• He lived a sinless life
• He died on the cross
• The Jews put Him to death
• He was buried
• He was resurrected
• He is now seated at right hand of God
Beyond these facts is Paul’s testimony that he left everything to follow Christ (the true test of a disciple as outlined by Jesus in Luke 14:26-33). Paul writes, “But whatever things [his Jewish background and benefits that he had just listed] were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead" (Philippians 3:7-11).
Paul’s Enemies
Paul’s teachings and proclamation of Jesus were not popular. If the success of an evangelistic mission were to be measured by the amount of opposition, his mission would be regarded as a catastrophic failure. This would be in keeping with Christ’s statement made to Ananias: "For I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake" (Acts 9:16). The book of Acts alone chronicles more than 20 different episodes of rejection and opposition to Paul’s message of salvation. We should also take seriously the litany of opposition and rejection that Paul lays out in 2 Corinthians 11:23-27. In truth, such hostility and dismissal is to be expected, given his audience. A crucified deliverer was to the Greeks an absurd contradiction in terms, just as to Jews a crucified Messiah was a piece of scandalous blasphemy.
Paul’s enemies comprised a trinity. First, there were the spiritual enemies indicated in his writings that he was acutely aware of (e.g. 1 Thessalonians 2:18). Next, there were his already mentioned initial target audience of both Jews and Gentiles, many of whom would mistreat and dismiss him. Lastly came the one that, it could be argued, perhaps caused him the most grief-the early Church itself.
The fact that Paul was seen as strange and questionable, not merely by fellow Jews but also by a number of fellow Jewish Christians, was no doubt hurtful to him. It would be one thing for Paul’s authority and authenticity to be challenged outside the Body of Christ, but inside was a different foe with which he had to wrestle. First Corinthians 9:1-3 is an example: Paul insists to the Church that he was commissioned by Christ (others include Romans 1:5; 1 Corinthians 1:1-2; 2 Corinthians 1:1; Galatians 1:1). Some even believe that 2 Corinthians 11:26 suggests that there was a plot to murder Paul; a plot formed by other Christians.
Such combined opposition-lost humanity, spiritual adversaries, and distrusting brethren-certainly must have caused the apostle to despair at times, with evidence in his writings that he carried out his missionary work with the prospect of martyrdom before his eyes (Philippians 2:17), which ultimately turned out to be true. Paul was beheaded, tradition asserts, under the persecution of Nero near the third milestone on the Ostian Way. Constantine built a small basilica in Paul’s honor by AD 324, which was discovered in 1835 during excavations preceding the erection of the present basilica. On one of the floors was found the inscription PAVLO APOSTOLO MART - “To Paul, apostle and martyr”.
Concluding Thoughts About Paul
So was Paul for real? The evidence from history and from his own writings declares that he was. Paul’s 180 degree turnaround from his Pharisaic life is not disputed by any learned scholar of history, both secular and Christian. The only question is: what caused his about-face? What would cause a very learned Jewish Pharisee to suddenly embrace the very movement he violently opposed and be so committed to it that he would die a martyr’s death?
The answer is contained within Paul’s writings and the book of Acts. In Galatians Paul summarizes his story in this way:
“For you have heard of my former manner of life in Judaism, how I used to persecute the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it; and I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries among my countrymen, being more extremely zealous for my ancestral traditions. But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went away to Arabia, and returned once more to Damascus. Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem to become acquainted with Cephas, and stayed with him fifteen days. But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother. (Now in what I am writing to you, I assure you before God that I am not lying.) Then I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia. I was still unknown by sight to the churches of Judea which were in Christ; but only, they kept hearing, ‘He who once persecuted us is now preaching the faith which he once tried to destroy.’ And they were glorifying God because of me" (Galatians 1:13-24).
AGAIN if you throw out Paul you also must throw out luke, acts , Mark , 1st and 2nd Peter, James atleast if not all the new testament. Obviously you dont understand Paul's writting and so you twist not only them but also all scriptures to YOUR OWN DESTRUCTION as the apostle Peter says
@@adamguy33 Excellent points!
Michele, here is Mat 5:18 _"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled"_
So you think that in all of the 613 commandments of "the law" that *not "ONE"* jot or tittle has passed away? Obviously many jots and tittles have passed away, therefore the law must have been *"fulfilled"* by Christ.
@@NoSundayLawComing bravo, with pure logic , common sense, and proper biblical study within good contextual hermeneutics while rightly dividing old and new covenants you have prevailed. Your absolutely correct some jots and title's have passed away. I can almost guarantee some SDA is gonna come back with something like "well JESUS was only talking about the 10 commandments" Unfortunately some SDA just love their simple proof texting to validate their goddess EGW. But by the grace of GOD, JESUS can open their eyes , if only they'll let Him.