Trick for clearing Carrier multiple orifice manifolds in RTU's without removing them
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- čas přidán 21. 04. 2018
- Here's an example of how I clear the restriction in the Carrier (or Trane etc) RTU's that have the multiple parallel path piston orifices. (I have a habit of calling them "accurators" in the videos because that is what Carrier calls their piston metering devices).
Typically HVAC technicians either replace the entire metering device header assembly (which is a lot of work) or they replace the entire coil.
So far I have had some luck with clearing these restrictions.
What I did here was cut the piping going in and out to isolate the section I am going to clear and I heat the copper around each piston until it is near cherry red then I blast it with nitrogen.
The debris are known to be caused from some sort of wax build up from the oil etc.
Heating the pistons seems to melt the wax so it can be cleared out.
I also used my Spinning Swage set to put the copper piping back together with a factory look. - Jak na to + styl
*Doing this same repair on a Trane*
czcams.com/video/3PGp8I4Mj1w/video.html
Try this today and works good, before i cut it out & dip into the solvent and use use wire to clear the piston, save a lot of time. Thank you for sharing
Glad to see it keeps doing the job 👍
Awesome trick to know! Thanks for taking the time and effort to make this video.
Hey I just wanted to thank you for this video. It allowed me to save my customer by following your steps I did this and save the metering devices
I would love to learn this trade in depth from a master like yourself. OUTSTANDING!!
5 yrs later and I can say this man is a GOAT. preciate da vid, was having issues with evap and tried this b4 replacing and she is cooling !! BADASS 🔥
Thanks for this video. I have been running into a couple of units with the same issue. I’m going to have to try this out.
Nice work
I will have to remember that one. Thanks for sharing.
Hey bro thanks to your video it got me out of a bind! The header or coil won’t be available until nov and I seen this video and it helped me out this morning. She’s back up and running! New sub dude!!
Your videos are awesome. Doing it the right way!
I followed your steps and was able to clear both circuits that were clogged and back in good operation. Thanks for the help man!
Nice. Good to hear.
Great video! Thank you for the tip. I am sure I will run into this one day.
Nice trick. I have to remember that. Found some plugged up ones in scottsdale a few times.
Got to do one of these next week, thanks for the info
Nice repair brother. I had one of these last year where we replaced the coil... as it was under warranty
Awesome video
I done this before with taking refrigerant out
But that’s the greatest way
Thanks for kicking that knowledge dude you're legit..
I literally just ran into this today. Didnt know you could do this. Im gonna think about this all night lol
Beautiful job!
I need to do a similar job this week, thank you for this video.
Comment back and let us know if it worked.
Had a tech fix a leak on one of these guys, got the job done, turned it on and it pumped itself down real quick. The next day I watched this video, did exactly what you said and she runs like a champ for now. Thank you for this sir
That's awesome
Great video learned something new thanks
You are a true Master. Thanks You for the vídeo.
I learned from your video and did a job about the video and it worked great! I also didn’t use flush.
Awesome.
I only used the flush one time. Yet it worked every time so far.
Great job!
Would like to see your RX11 Flush and Nitrogen experiment results.
Did this yesterday. Worked perfect!
That is awesome! 👍
Good repair!
I found a 3 year old carrier heat pump package unit with that problem last week, only someone else had over charged the crap out of it and told them it had a leak.
I recovered 24 pounds of 410A that had an 18 pound factory charge...
On a hope and prayer I changed the filter drier in hope that that was it, but no dice. It isn't quite plugged enough to freeze the coil, so I threw some AC renew in it to see what happens.
I'm not confident in the AC Renew, so I'm pretty sure I'm going to be giving this method a try on the unit this week. ;)
Awesome video 👍👍
Awesome video!!!
Awesome brother! I love your swedge tools, oh, and that freakin' display setup!! Niiice :)
Are you still making videos?
Great video! Got a few of these systems at a local church I’m gonna try this on over the summer. Keep up the great content brother!
Dude awesome job
I just did this today. I isolated the coils purged the oil and flushed with Rx11 them then I heated up and blew them out with nitro. I replaced the compressor and charged it with R417c (hot-shot2) after a deep vacuum.
Did you get normal pressures and splits afterwards?
So far this worked each time I attempted it.
Great video
Well done!
I need to do this this week. Wish me luck. Thanks for the video.
Post the results
@@hackfreehvac it didn't work very well but it helped. So I told the customer and we just ordered the TXV conversion kit which is nice because it will fix both circuit one and two
@hookedup9424 If it's straight cool the conversion is easy.
I have videos of that too. Older ones so look back a ways.
Heat pumps don't convert.
@@hackfreehvac yeah it's a gas pack. I'm hoping it goes smoothly. It's been a pain in the ass and made me feel like I don't know what the hell I'm doing
@@hookedup9424
Here is a video of me doing that 8 years ago 👍
czcams.com/video/6r-GAx8f3-0/video.htmlsi=VfJBFPR2YInFdscG
at least your honest, most techs will not want to do the work on that mess and would just replace it. kudo's
Thank you for sharing this
that was awesome..... subscribing!
Brilliant fix. The copper glitter from spin swedge went down both pipes though. I hope it dosent cause a restriction. Spin swedge up to keep debris out.
That tool does not remove copper, I usually use a little oil to help it work even better.
I think that I will try your method on Bryant 10 ton RTU next week.
Good knowledge for us
I have replaced headers before. If you cut the tubes with tin snips and unsweat each orifice individually, it is not all that bad..
Always replace the Filter-drier with Sporlan solid core type. Obviously use nitrogen while brazing to keep new orifices clean.
Yup, I've done that. With snips as well. The only real way of extracting the individual tunes out of the evap tube bell ends without destroying it 👍
That is the official repair method.
Just got to hope a manifold assembly is in stock.
As for Sporlan filters... check out a video of Sporlan vs Emerson czcams.com/video/5OtmSbBAmCY/video.html
My coworker seen the demo in person. You could tap on a sporlan while it runs and it allows debris to escape
Saved that customer a new evap coil. Well done. I always prefer to not add any additives so I just cut out the header and sweat in a TXV kit on units with plugged orifices.
Yeah, I heard him talk about that before. I think he leaves it up to the customer if he mentions it. The conversion being the higher priced option. But being he's had such high success rate, it's probably appealing to the customer
hey great video
Where did you get your swedge tools at? Those are awesome.
A few months ago, I did this with a straight cool/gas heat Carrier, and the stuff found its way back into the orifices after I had blown them out. I ended up replacing the header and orifices.
This is a bandaid fix at best.
@@joeanderson6187 I have decided to stop doing orifice replacements, because half of the time there is still a problem in the evap, and the better part of a day is wasted.If I saw a more consistent outcome, i would be clearing the orifices, but after so many partial outcomes, I just write them up.
I’ve seen many times if you loose a condenser motor and the head pressure gets high those flowraters clog up. I’ve never tried the nitrogen purge while heating the pistons with heat. I wonder have you tried this with the unit running? I wonder if it would work. Oh and it’s shellac from the windings of the compressor running hot.
Nice video
where do you get the swedgie for the drill???
Nice vid
Does that swage make any dirt in the system?
Life Saver ! !
Restriction killed Compressor, Of course Carrier didn’t have it in stock 🤦♂️.
What is the procedures for a split system?
I have done this with 3 carrier units without using rx11 and have had 100% success. The key is isolating the short orrfice tubes as you did. Great video but this will not work on a Goodman because nothing works on a Goodman except a trane curb adapter lol
I'm about to try this I have about 20 carrier rtu about 15 years old and most of them with restrictions will see how it goes
Make sure you come back and let us know how it went.
Been a few months, how’d it go?
wOULD have BEEN NICE TO SEE BEFORE PRESSURES ALONG WITH THE AFTER !
Search the videos.
There should be some others.
There should be one of a Trane that was really bad. Same fix. Multi orifice header design.
What kind of Subcooling and Superheat were you getting with those plugged orifices?
High 😂
We’re those tubes freezing up before your repair when you were testing the system?
What psi of nitrogen? 75?
Awesome Video ! Very cool Hackfree. Does it only Happen on Heat Pumps ? Yea, that Poe Oil Does not Like Heat. it seems to turn to white concrete , . i see it on cap tube systems all the time if Peope don't keep thier Commercial Refrigerator Condenser Clean. i would be interested to see what the Oil in the compressor on that unit Looks Like, ,If it Plugs up again i'd Do a Oil change on the Compressor. Awesome Video ! Thanks for Posting ! i Have not Ran into this yet.
Thanks also for the cool Swage usage tip. i'm Gonna Get me some of those . i have seen those before but, i did not think they would work very well. on the big 7/8 one u might want to use some wd-40 and it might go Easier. take er easy.
I think I've fixed some on the gas packs too.
I just recently replaced a bad compressor in a carrier HP RTU from 2002. I unknowingly removed the check valves with the strainers and installed (2) filter driers where the old strainers were. I thought the strainers were filter driers. I added refrigerant back into the system and now it’s running low suction. I’m assuming I need to install new check valves and remove (1) of the driers? Any pointers would be appreciated as I have never worked on these particular units before.
You can use a filter drier in place of a strainer. But you will need the check valves.
Also if the system had a restricted multi orifice manifold assembly before the old compressor died then you'll still have that restriction after
Do put,maybe wd40,,so it can spin faster,,,just asking or would it do more damage than good??
Dude I want to thank you for your advice on this ,my name is jack Raymond Watson Jr and I showed my video on Facebook if you would watch and comment would be awesome ,I wasn't as discriptive as you but it worked
If the Header that contains the metering devices is available at parts house. might be good to replace header. Good job, by the way! Peace
Usually 2-3 weeks to get one, and an absolute PITA to replace on some models, especially the 14 SEER heat pump package units.
I have a bryant package unit that i cannot find the metering device
The unit is a heat pump r22 system. Tech support is no help because they wont call back. Cannot even find the manual on line. It's crazy. Unit model # 549BPX40000AK. Any help will be appreciated.
Does that drill bit swager tool not leave shavings in the pipe?
It's NOT a drill bit.
It uses friction to heat the pipe then the pipe is able to be stretched to the shape of the spinning tool. The tool is made to do this.
I do give a shot of nitro through the pipe just in case.
What were the symptoms the unit was displaying before you cleared the restriction?
Restriction.
High superheat, low suction, low temp split. etc
How do you know that's where your restriction is? Does it frost up there? And you had low suction pressure, high superheat?
No drop across the strainer/check valve.
And you do often see frost after the metering device.
Low suction pressure and high superheat.
I often add a pinch of refrigerant to see if it corrects as these are sometimes hard to tell the difference when the restriction is subtle.
If the subcooling starts to climb with the extra refer than it is definitely restricted.
The problem with this is that it is only a temporary fix and someone will be back again because you have not got the wax completely out and like someone else said the oil was more than likely over heating to cause this.
Sure, but to get them back up and running can be a great win. Then you tell them you're going to need to come back and do that work. Job security. Most customers like the option of getting their equipment back up and running with little cost. Then perhaps with incremental improvements making it look like it didn't cost so much. So it depends on what the customer wants to do sometimes. You make recommendations that keeps you coming back if you like doing that. But being he's had such success performing this task, the simplicity in it, and the lack of parts needed to perform the task, it's a cheap option to get the customer up running. Additionally, in inline filter replacement will buy even more time. A cost most customers are willing to fork out. But again, with the thought of returning. So dude, he just got them running at a fraction of the cost of another (rejected) quote. All the while landing a repeat customer for saving them money.
But seriously though, do you actually believe this is the kind of guy that had not considered everything you've just stated? Clearly, the contaminated oil issue is the obvious. But with the success rate being 100%, I'd think he knows what he's doing. So your comment is definitely odd. What tech performing such a task wouldn't know that?
"Looks factory!"
❤how much pressure nitrogen. When we flash the system
When clearing the orifices I blow as fast as it will go. Short hard blasts. You see the smoke from the oil/wax come out for a second then it clears up.
Just have the pipe around the orifice almost cherry red hot (but don't melt the copper) then blast it. Do the same on each parallel orifice.
to make swage easier i usually heat it up a bit and then swage have never had any issues.
That's what I do when I swage larger sizes such as 7/8
Great results and still 11 people didn't like the video. And I'm sure the tenant was glad there was no need for a change out
Thanks 👍
Can nitogen/heat/ and air mixture
create a kaboom.
Dry Nitrogen is fairly inert.
It displaces the atmosphere so no oxygen in the system.
First you don’t have to change the whole coil, you can just change the orfice header, and if this doesn’t work, damn it’s a lot of wasted time and a dryer down the drain, but you did teach me something with the heating up the orfices
Yeah you can buy an orifice kit and cut the old one out and piece together the kit.
I've just been able to clear them out.
On straight cool in just convert to TXV with feeders
hackfreehvac I’ve done dozens of conversions, kits and building own distributor, they work on tranes great but not so much on the carriers, it’s a toss up on them I believe it’s because the valve has to be in heat, like this old Lennox that were built that way
Orfice kits are not that hard, carriers you have to pull while coil, 4 hour job
@@braintumor943 I've done it on Trane and Carrier but on straight cool.
The heat pumps have check valves to change flow/purpose of part of each coil depending on heading or cooling mode.
hackfreehvac you right, we don’t get a lot of heat pumps, although we do get dehum in drug warehouses, labs, clean rooms, etc
On a side note, kind of threw dud under the bus didn’t ya, haha
Do you clear out the lines with nitrogen after you used that spinning swage?
I often blow them out anytime I think something might get in there.
Although the spinning swage doesn't really make any shavings at all. It makes the copper malleable by heating it up and then just stretches it.
There is no cutting effect etc.
@@hackfreehvac what's the brand of that swedge tool or where can I get one? That looks sweet , especially not leaving anything in the line.
@@cravenmoorehead6219
The brand I use is called Spin Swage
spintools.com/swage/
have you ever tried the AC Renew on them?
That is a synthetic oil. I don't think it will remove the debris which are generally caused by nuked compressor oil. LOL
AC Renew does seem to help with TXV's though by helping the needle move smoothly. Reversing Valves too.
Yep done this befor
Great video. How u do the vacuum on that rtu.. it’s no damage the compressor??
Who makes the swage tool?
There are a few brands making them.
Search "Spinning Swage"
what were your pressures
This was too long ago to remember that.
have you ever converted it to a txv ?
When it's a straight cool I do convert them to txv.
But on heatpumps it's difficult because the coils have multiple check valves to repurpose sections of each coil whether it's in heating or cooling mode.
For example... in condenser coil mode the hot gas goes through multiple parallel connected circuits then comes out onto a manifold and then a single 3/8" line then goes back into the bottom section of the same coil for a few more passes before leaving as liquid to the other coil.
That complexity prevents changing to a TXV.
But straight cool units are a more typical design.
Here's a video of converting a straight cool carrier to txv
czcams.com/video/6r-GAx8f3-0/video.html
I heard it’s the compressor that’s turning the oil into wax or sludge or whatever
Pretty much.
Kool.... nice job!
cool
Won't it just plug up again since the oil wasn't changed?
The OEM units often only used a screen strainer ahead of the check valve and orifice header to the evap coil.
I install a good liquid line drier.
I have yet to go back and fix the same problem on any of these.
would you recommend using ac renew?
Not for this issue.
The synthetic coil helps sticking reversing valves and TXV's but this issue is more from oil breakdown from comp heating etc..
@@hackfreehvac thanks for replying, how much pressure did you use to purge it.
@@obedb093 I blasted the nitro pretty high after I heated the orifice
@@hackfreehvac thanks it worked.
@@obedb093 That's awesome.
I like what you did but 123lb suction? You got to have a bad low side valve in that unit.
123 PSI is too high? LOL
Normal 410 suction can be 110 to 150 easy depending on current return air load.
Every 1 degree of increased evap coil temp adds several PSI of suction pressure.
i.e. a 40 degree coil = 118 PSI
41 = 121
42 = 123
43 = 125
44 = 128
45 = 130
46 = 133
47 = 135
48 = 138
49 = 140
50 = 143
An 80 degree return air temp can EASILY give you a 140 PSI suction pressure.
123 is really good suction pressure.
Low suction / high compression ratio is what kills compressors.
When I did these repairs I informed the person that the compressor MAY already have taken a hit from the previous operation and that time will tell.
Question; doesn't all that drilling introduce shavings into the system? Clearly does, now what?
Did you think that was a drill bit?
That is a specialized "swage" tool that is mase for this purpose. It is tapered and uses friction to heat the copper until the tapered swage tool spins down into it, creating a female fitting.
There really isn't debris from this process.
And the nitro can blow it out. And so far never had one single one of these come back to me restricted.
These repairs are also already an option for the customer to get an old unit working as opposed to buying a new unit or waiting to get the entire header assembly.
It is understood that it is a fix to get a little more life out of it. But again. Haven't had to go back on one single one yet for any restriction.
@@hackfreehvac Thank you for explanation! Hey I'm not the only dummie around 🙃
I always replace the header. Sometimes I swap to TXV.
Carrier RTU'S sure keep us busy with repairs don't they? I call Carrier for quotes about everyday, probably have to call Trane and Lennox once a week.
I often swap to TXV on the straight cool units but most units here are heat pumps and due to the check valves in the coil manifolds to re purpose sections of the coils differently for heat versus cool it is not an option to change to a TXV.
I have a late question....the strainers on those 10 tonners. Are the check valves in those strainers?
I have the same unit but mine is 96 and r22. But there has never been a filter dryer change or a strainer change. Ive cleared the accurators 2 years ago and it needs it again. But I've seen the fd installed at the condenser inlets and at the old strainer locations. I just dont want to install them in the wrong spot..
Im asking you cause....well your the one hvac channel I enjoy the most....and your work ethic is exactly like mine...dealing with fucktards and idiot techs on a daily....is a job all in itself...lol 😆 I'm fixing a bunch of ass backwards shite...from a company who'd rather wait till it breaks royally and charge more instead of doing proper preventative maintenance...
Do they even teach this at HVAC school? Otherwise you may have to replace the whole manifold 😬
Typical repair is replacing the entire manifold header assembly.
Nice brotha ...lol😆!
Happens a lot when the condenser coils get dirty
Nice Job! If I could Sub twice I would have.
I usually just replace the header
That's what I used to do.
Many techs condemn the entire coil because replacing the header is a lot of work.
Doing what I am doing here is actually pretty quick and easy
@@hackfreehvac definately.. I'm going to try this next time.. not quite cooling season yet for us in CT haha
wow what was that reamer tool on your drill?
It's called SpinSwadge.
Once you get a set you will wonder why you ever had to use a coupler. LOL
spintools.com/
im here because my evap on a rtu is fronzen from the meter ->evap