I don't think Sauron surrendered because they are stronger than him (on individual level that they could capture or kill him). As ruler especially without his army he is defeated and cannot conquer. But i think he surrendered on purpose to corrupt them. Because he is individually stronger than the average Burog. He basically without magic powers he can probably with the one ring go face to face with Gothmog. So i think he could have with vampires and few unites on undead rathe - or even by himself alone go all out would have just destroyed their army. I think fighting Sauron with one ring is like fighting 10 Smaugs. He is immortal and a spiritual being at the core. He is like at least 100 Gandalf the gray in one. You don't like where the show going because they going to make Sauron the good guy but the rest are stupid and afraid of change.
@@pyktukasplays4945 he could at least runway. I wouldn't suprise if he could teleport useing one ring. He definitely could fly like a jet. Absolute minimum he could hide and escape. Maby transform to a gaint super wolf/man wolf and run or to a great eagle or a small flying dragon. There is manyways. Or a small bird/bat
@@ailediablo79 Why would he need to do that? He could have wiped out the whole fleet if he wanted to. Sauron showed that by causing a mountain-size wave.
Numenoreans in lore: Men awarded with long lives and strong bodies, only to become jealous of Elves' immortality, a cautionary tale of a gift awakening greed. Numenoreans in Amazon: THEY TERK ERR JEBS
Galadriel is a powerful elf mage and loremaster who could probably draw out someone's spine with a mean look if she so wanted and she's literally older than the sun and the moon. In Rings of Power she's a moody insufferable brat.
@@raeldri5867 It's pretty much all modern storytelling. In order to have a "strong female character", you simply take a woman, remove all semblance of femininity or positive emotions, and have them growl and glare their way through the show/movie, constantly talking down to everyone around them, and smugly showing off how superior they are, especially to men, who will grovel and prostrate themselves before their female overlord. That's why they nixed Celeborn from their show. Can't have their "strong female lead" be shackled by anything patriarchal like marriage or children.
@@wumpusrat In other words, they write woman as unlikeable men. Mainly because they want so badly for them to be as popular and iconic as classic male heroes. Problem is they don’t understand what made them popular to begin with. Lastly they fail to understand what makes female heroes unique. Because they are different than male heroes. They have feminine qualities and behaviors that set them apart from their male counterparts. Because for some reason being feminine at all is now weak. They are literally feeding into the stereotype they are supposedly fighting against.
@@rotwang2000 I wouldn't say it's "default white male". It's more like "generic action hero". Have to be tough, smirky, and better than everyone else. Putting those traits on the "typical male action hero" tends to make them simply generic and uninteresting. Putting them on the "strong female character" type and they just become annoying Karens. They need to look back at examples of ACTUAL strong female characters, like Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, Princess Leia, etc. You can be strong AND feminine at the same time. But modern writers hate femininity.
Like, it is fine that the actor is not 7'11'', but at least make him look taller than the rest. But nope, let's just put a normal sized actor, who is going to care?
Spitting facts! It's almost as if they intentionally didn't want to make a man look more powerful than the far more stunning and brave female characters.
You know that giant army of men in the flashback in the beginning of LOTR? Those are Arnorians and Gondorians. They are, essentially, Numenor's LEFTOVERS, a pale SHADOW of the lost might of Numenor. How great was Numenor, then, that such a great force of powerful warriors was but a pale imitation? When Numenor marched on Mordor against Sauron, SAURON SURRENDERED WITHOUT A FIGHT BECAUSE HE KNEW HE COULDN'T WIN BY MARTIAL POWER. Instead he destroyed Numenor by influencing their culture over many, many years with poisonous words and ideas given by a silver tongue dripping in honey. He knew he couldn't win against Numenor with armies so he didn't even try. He killed Numenor from within because it was the only way he could. THAT is how great Numenor was. How great and powerful its armies. So great that Sauron DIDN'T EVEN PRETEND he could match them in battle, not even at the greatest height of his power, with the One Ring on his hand.
Sauron did fight against the Numenoreans in the first intervention when they came in and destroyed Saurons armies in the West that had been hammering the Elvish kingdoms. Sauron probably wasn't at the height of his power in the 2nd intervention by Ar Pharazon. However having said that totally true the Numenoreans were incredibly strong certainly stronger than the combined Elvish realms at the time of the first intervention. At any point when ROP is taking place Numenor should be a strong seafaring nation with colonies in Middle Earth rather than what looks like a citystate.
@@nath9091 I did add the qualifier 'when they marched on Mordor', Sauron thought he could take them at first when they first showed up, and then they curbstomped him he learned otherwise and ran back to Mordor with his tail between his legs and leaving a trail of yellow behind him. I would say, though, that he was at the height of HIS power, having his original body still, all his magical power thereof, AND the One Ring on top, and answered to no master but himself. Prior to that, he was subservient, and thus lesser in personal power.
@UC8YCsFD8U32jhvPjvIT52yg ...try again. Numenor intervened because Sauron was burning Eregion. Sauron was burning Eregion because Celebrimbor made the last three Rings without him and hid them while he was away forging the One. At this point, the One Ring was existing. The Ring existed before his captivity in Numenor, and he survived the destruction of Numenor because of it. At no point from his capture by the Numenoreans to the destruction of Numenor did Sauron leave Numenor. If the Ring didn't exist when Sauron was taken captive to Numenor, how then did it save him from death during the destruction of Numenor?
@@hardcorehistorybuff5230 Galadriel and Tar-Míriel, they both are wrongly portraited so they can try to show traditional male power instead of showing how these characters are strong in different ways.
Amazon took one of Middle-Earth's most powerful, educated and advanced cultures - a culture that even Sauron, at the height of his power, envied and feared - and turned them into a joke. About the Hobbit, when Del Toro suddenly left, Peter Jackson was given THREE MONTHS to come up with a plan, as opposed to the four years he had to prepare for Lord of the Rings. (the other option was sacking thousands of people). That also affected the Hobbit movies.
If one looks hard, as a number of have done, there is still the makings of one good movie in The Hobbit trilogy, by reducing it to a single movie. Jackson, not only was writing scripts as the movie progressed, he was also being obligated to come up with a trilogy of movies which required way too much filler...and which The Hobbit was not, in any way, shape or form. On a positive note, Jackson understood many of the characters, their motivations, their weaknesses, their strengths. ROP seems to give us too many one dimensional characters.
To be honest, that makes me appreciate the Hobbit movies more, knowing the situation they put in Jacksons lap. I think he did pretty well all things considered.
Its funny how house of the dragon has a timeskip every episode and could probably work without them, while rings of power is in desperate need some kind of timeskip
I recall them saying something like they did not want timeskips so that they did not have to constantly recast characters, and only having some appear for one episode before dying of old age.
"Do you know how the shills first came into being?" "They were human once, taken by the dark powers, tortured and mutilated!" "A ruined and terrible form of life, now; perfected." "My shilling Amabots" "Whom do you serve?" "BEZOS"
Amazon wanted their own Game of Thrones, but with the added impetus of taking an existing IP and "updating" it for the world of today. So on the one hand you have them trying to replicate a tone they don't understand, while at the same time trying to inject terrible ideologies into a carefully constructed work. They don't know how to do either, and it shows.
Also they cant even ape the existing work, because they didnt even bother to get the right IP rights. Wonder why they didnt show Ungoliant? Thats why. Laziness with the rights
The second Lindsay Weber said "we want a Middle Earth that reflects the modern world" was when any kind of hope I had for the show died. Tolkien, a staunch Traditionalist and Conservative would despise the very notion of being progressive and post-modern. If they can't capture this part of Tolkien, then they messed up in such a tremendous way. They've also seemed to have missed Catholic themes, another tremendous failure on their part. Their biggest mistake is seeing Tolkien as just another fantasy, rather than seeing Tolkien's work the way Tolkien intended, which is a mythology. And to their ignorance of thinking that they have the right to make Tolkien for the rest of the world, Tolkien specifically intended this work to be for the English - not that everyone else is excluded from enjoying it, but to have the hubris to Americanise an English mythology is, in my opinion, 'cultural appropriation' - the thing that the show's supporters constantly whinge about.
@@JangoUnchained98 which was also the explanaition why they use black actors, they want to make it "feel like the world we see infront of our window", which is funny because i am from central europe, we don´t have a larg population of black people, we got tons of people from east europe, asia or the orient and arabia, but we barly see any of those minorities, i can only recall 2 characters that were neither white nor black and that was the herb ladie which looks like near/middle east and her "son" that somehow looks more like someone from india or even native north american... all the rest is black which might be a great representation of the US or maybe spain and france but not for the world as a whole, if that would be the case 30% of cast members would need to be asian or indian.^^
Elves at Helm's Deep or even Frodo's excursion to Osgiliath are a detail change, but do not significantly alter the general shape or themes of the story. "There was things which he stretched, but mainly he told the truth," as Huckleberry Finn said of Mr. Twain's book about Tom Sawyer. Making the Númenoreans' split with the Eldar a sort of vague race prejudice apparently based on nothing (or possibly concern over jobs) instead of a long-developing resentment of their endless lives isn't just a bit of story compression, and it isn't 'mainly the truth'; it is missing one of the most important themes in the tale. Making the forging of the Rings a way of avoiding the imminent fading of the Eldar (and perhaps the Moriquendi-they don't say) because mumble-mumble-mithril-valinor-light-mumble isn't just a change of detail, it completely undermines the idea of Celebrimbor's trying to stop Time, those 'mortal summers that flicker and pass upon this Middle-earth'. So it isn't just changes for simple dramatic reasons; the emerging tale has almost nothing in common with the source material in Lord of the Rings (never mind the Silmarillion). Indeed, one struggles in vain to find _any_ line in Appendix B's chronology that corresponds closely to anything in this story, even if the dates are all different. Even taking away all references to Tolkien, filing off the names from everything, they are doing a terrible job of portraying a Secondary World. Númenor has many ships, like the one on which we meet Elendil (we do not even know whether this ship is east or west of Númenor). They are not fishing boats, because we see no fish, nets, etc. And we are told nothing of any colonies nor settlements on the continent to the east, and it certainly seems that the Elves of Lindon, who deploy their police force as far as Mordor-to-be, know nothing of such places. So where do these ships go? Who are their trading partners? In this telling, this Númenor mostly resembles a cheap 'city module' tabletop RPG supplement. There are some number of ships. There are sailors for those ships. There are horses, in unknown numbers, and stables and a cavalry, though we do not know why. There are soldiers, but there is no evidence that any have fought in a battle anywhere. There are tradesmen, but where are their goods sold? There are named NPCs in high positions whose motivations seem to change with the roll of dice. This 'Númenor' module, in other words, has no context at all, no world in which it exists until the dungeon-master introduces bits of it at the necessary time. It could be plugged into any middle-schooler's RPG campaign with little or no change (and the middle-schooler would do a better time keeping track of dates and distances). It's not just bad Tolkien; it's careless, amateurish, and finally uninteresting fantasy storytelling. PS. I do wonder if the only fantasy that Payne and McKay have experienced outside of the cinema (prior to having to read Tolkien for this project) was indeed roleplaying games. It might explain some of the more dubious storytelling decisions.
I don't know that much about the numenorians I only read the silmarillion. For me the show captures the themes of Tolkien pretty good. Don't really understand all the hate. They don't have the rights to silmarillion so of course there are a few changes but I don't see that much shitting on lore like everybody claims. As I said maybe the numenorean stuff isn't accurate but stuff like the mithril doesn't really matter until everything gets resolved. For me they clearly set the mithril story up to be false, elrond even said it's just a story, most think it's bullshit. My guess is Annatar is already there, deceiving celebrimbor, poisoning the tree and manipulates them in to building the forge and getting mithril from the dwarves. Basically my point is a lot of the lore breaking stuff people talk about doesn't really change the lore because it's just fake information and I think in the following seasons we will see how all this fake stuff gets resolved (probably by elrond). The show is called rings of power for a reason and the fact that we basically didn't see anything about it leads me to believe we just think we didn't see anything but in reality everything has to do with the creation of the rings because Sauron is already completly controlling the elves. Changes are necessary, otherwise you can't put 2000 years in to a watchable show but until now I can't see major lore or theme changes (maybe numenor, as I said thats the part I don't know much about). But of course everybody has his own opinion. I can just recommend watching Rings and Realms, it's an analysis of a professor that studied Tolkien forever. And after I watched every episode of the analysis and with the knowledge I had because I read silmarillion, the show feels totally fine for me and actually does a lot of accurate things that sometimes just seem lore breaking when in reality they aren't really. We have just seen 10% of the show. There are tons of ways things can turn out accurate but because people think the writers are dumb and aren't able to actually write a plot, nobody even tries to create interesting theories and just hates on it (just my guess, of course it could also be that the mithril stuff and other things are actually the way they wanna go, then I agree it's dumb and bad lore breaking writing xD) Just saying as long as there is a way to turn things around maybe wait until we got the actual plot of the show before hating it that hard.
You're correct. The themes have been abandoned in favour of blank module fan fiction RPG elements. I've always said "a highschool nerd could do a better job with their own can fiction than this"...
How did you feel about the master plan of Adar to open a floodgate and create a small river which made a mountain explode, and Galadriel took a pyroclastic impact to the face, unharmed? Still good writing?
@@rageagainstmyhatchet As the original commentor didn't say it's good writing, I guess you are asking me? If not feel free to ignore me ^^ I didn't like that the key for the flooding was the sword, I loved the general idea that they let mount doom erupt and it Makes sense to let a river go in to lava to make it explode. Didn't like so much that galadriel takes the cloud to the face but at least the scene looked cool. In this case I agree it was bad writing but as it would have been so easy to change it I can ignore that part. Maybe she survives because she is one of the most powerful elves? But that would mean everybody else dies so I doubt it :D From writing point I'm not an expert so that's actually stuff I can't really argue against. I just don't think the actual story/plot is that bad and to me the show still feels like Tolkien. The show runners clearly know a lot about Tolkien otherwise there wouldn't be so many hints/Easter eggs/similarities, even though they have to make an original story because of copyright.
I imagine the Numenorean ships like those the admiral Zheng He is said to have commanded: at least 200, maybe even 400 feet long. I also imagine that Amazon made their Numenor so laughably puny in sets and people because they were trying so hard to keep all their doings secret.
Numenor's population prior to the fall was something like 15 million. The city that Galadriel is in looks like it has a population of MAYBE 1000, despite all their attempts with cgi to make it look huge. At best. It's pitifully small.
@@wumpusrat At least in the PJ movies, they get across a sense of scale correctly. Minas Tirath feels large, and is full of people and history. You can tell by looking at it it's the capital of a once proud and strong nation that has fallen into stagnation. The armies feel huge, the battles are chaotic and loud, the distances the Fellowship have to traverse are shown in their deteriorating appearances and flagging energy.
It's been pretty amusing. Watching from afar it looks like another "Halo". Ignoring most of the source material to write the story they want and failing at it.
@@mainepants Pfft How? The Tv Show of Halo is One of the Worst Bastardizations of an IP I Have Ever Seen, Honestly it’s Worse than Rings of Power in that Aspect.
@@francozanetti852 They Did With this One too Didn’t They? I Thought they Were Adamant about this being a Newer and Better Canon? I Might be Wrong though.
Sauron was in shock when he saw Numenor and this was in its decaying days, it's basically an island of Feanors, they were taller and stronger than most elves and their cities and works dwarfed many of Valinor. Basically it's a glimpse in what humans will be in the Second Music when all races reach a higher understanding
“Island of Feanors” Yeaaaaaaaah no. That’s giving a lot of credit to the average Numenorian civilian. Feanor is a being of great power. Perhaps the most powerful elf of his era. Numenorians are obviously very powerful, but there are levels to this thing. Feanor had incredible power. Numenorians aren’t on that level. MAYBE like Elendil fits that description, but random Numenorians weren’t remotely as naturally powerful as Feanor. I don’t see any Numenorians crafting Silmarils, you know?
@@austinherrington7049 That's why I wrote _"That is a unique interpretation"_ Feanor was pierced by a balrog's blade. Now, of course, we don't know if those were Balrogs like Durin's Bane or balrogs, like the many monsters. (They were developed into maia later. Until then they were troll/orc level threat.) Also, Feanor could insinerare his enemies. His body burned away after Feanor's death. That was because of the firey spirit the elf had.
@@austinherrington7049 Probably the most powerful elf EVER. Heck, Feanor might just have been the greatest being in the history of the entire world that wasn't an Ainur. No one ever had nor probably ever will match his incredible craftsmanship and creativity, and he was also described as being immensely strong and skilled in combat as well. @Pyktukas plays This is rather incorrect about the balrogs, on many levels. We know the balrog that killed Feanor--his name was Gothmog, and he was the lieutenant of Morgoth. He was one of the strongest balrogs in existence. Also, balrogs were NOT "developed into Maia later". That is the exact opposite of what happened. They started out as Maia, but were corrupted and twisted after treacherously following Melkor/Morgoth, and became the horrors they are seen as now. They were FAAAAAR more than a "troll/orc level threat." Good golly mate, MORGOTH HIMSELF was getting wrecked by Ungoliant, but when he called for help, balrogs came and drove her away. These things have VERY few matches in power in the entire world.
I don't humor cultural vandalism with a second of thought about it, not even hate watching or (no offence) this video. Just reminding people: when they spit in your face, don't fund them. They can't create anything, they want to get a rise out of you. Make sure they're forgotten and redouble your appreciation for the real art people make. I just see it as amusing that money can't make good work, the books are still enjoyable, and the films fantastic. No Amazon slave employing jerkoff has anything to do with LOTOR.
When someone slaps you, don't ignore it and run away, especially if that's what they tell you to do as they strike you. Instead stand your ground, turn the other cheek and dare them to see what happens. Don't slink away when attacked, attack back.
Exactly. Even the movies got it wrong in their flashback to the last allience. These people are the literal definition of ubermensch, in all ways superior to the men of gondor and rohan in the 3rd age. An island nation of Conans who after the split were led by a 7'11 warlord/king called Elendil 'The Tall'. They were not this soy level militia Amazon portrays being schooled by an elf. Fanfiction and nothing else.
I love Lord of the Rings. I loved the films. Love the books. Love the game. I was so hyped for this show. Watched several episodes several times. I TRIED to like it. It is SOOOO bad. You barely scratched the surface of all this shows problems, and more than lore, it just has bad writing and unlikable characters who we are clearly supposed to like.
Back in the Xbox days I had Return of the King, it was so f-ing epic! Slaying orcs like a boss, throwing spears at trolls, punking the deserter ghosts. I tried the War in the North, and it was also unexpectedly good. Couldn’t stop playing, it was exactly what I wanted. Shadow of Mordor/War are great, but they lack something for me, they’re thin, in a way, because there is so much grind, and the collectibles are cool, but it grows tiresome pretty quick. Loved the outfits in SoW.
Amazon hired the cheapest directors, the cheapest producers, the cheapest actors (Morfydd Clark who plays the woeful Galadriel got paid just $20K per episode! Even Amazon knew she wasn't worth much!) and the cheapest visuals. So where has ONE BILLION DOLLARS GONE; either they are trying to con the viewer or it’s a huge money laundering scheme.
@@joshuaginn792 It's not just about a show, it's emblematic of the times we are living through and it embodies the cancer at the heart of our culture. Sure, you can look at it in a vacuum as just a shitty show, but that wouldn't explain the reactions many are having to the show, more and more are tired of the cultural and societal rot that is eating away the ashes of our civilization. That's why it matters, it's the biggest show made recently, so it has major cultural significance.
Numenoreans based on Tolkien: - They are descendants of the Edain of the 1st age who fought alongside Elves against Morgoth in the War of Wraths who later got aid from Eonwe who led the host of Valar in defeating Morgoth. - They are strong in body and mind, and tall stature ( Elendil himself is described as 7.11ft tall) - During second age, They are the most advanced Kingdom of men in military and might ( has very strong naval forces as well) - After the War of the Wrath Tolkien also mentioned that Eonwe came among them and taught them; and they were given wisdom and power and life more enduring than any others of mortal race have possessed. - Eonwe being a maia was referred to as the "greatest of arms in Arda," meaning that he was the best with weapons and we know maia is divine beings ( much like Valar, but weaker), but still immensely stronger than an elf or a man Conclusion: we can safely say that Numenoreans over generations should have some knowledge and understanding in weapon combat. Also they should have known or be familiar with orcs, as their ancestor fought not just orcs but enemies, much worse than orcs, like dragons, balrogs and so on. But unfortunately the Amazon version of the Numenorans are so far from what Tolkien described, we don't see the same depiction of Numenoreans we hope to see, these men looks weak and seems like ordinary men who cant even fight with a sword. This is very clear from the Training/ Sparring scene in ep5 of RoP, between Guyladriel against these young Numenoreans. Yes in the books she's actually never been to Numenor and yes, she is an elf and a very ancient one, we know by this time she is already over 1000 years old, because she was born before 1st age in the year of trees. But again Numenoreans being taught by a Maia, not an elf, not a man, they should at least show that they are able to fight and can stand their ground. The teaching and the training from Eonwe, should have meant something. Nothing of that shown during the training/sparring scene, all you see is an elf toyed, mocked and humiliated these poor numenoreans and kicked their assess to the ground. It's just a sad portrayal.
My jaw dropped when the Elf children sunk Galadriel's paper boat and were mean, spiteful and aggressive. Not really in keeping with Tolkien's beautiful, intelligent, ethereal beings. Awful.
"Therefore they grew wise and glorious, and in all things more like the firstborn than any of the other kindreds of Men; and they were tall, taller than the tallest of the sons of Middle Earth; and the light in their eyes was like bright stars." -The Silmarillion
Speaking of Imperial Britain, the largest ships of the line ever built had crews of 4-600 men, including marines and supply officers and other non-sailors. Even if we assume that “several thousand” only means a crew of two thousand, that would make your average Numenorian warship four times or more the displacement of the largest real life wooden warships ever constructed.
Well, you are talking about a culture of demigod like seafaring men who Tolkien considered making an industrialized power. They made towers and walls that are nigh indestructible, the Palantiri and who knows what else. If anyone could pull that off, aside from elves, it would be the men of Numenor. Edit: Nevermind the palantir part, I'm an idiot.
I mean the warship Adler von Lübeck had a compliment of 1,000 men (including non-sailors) and had 138 cannons+ammo on board while being up to 3,000 tons of displacement. If Numinorian warships had ballista/comparable weapons on top but used lower decks for storing men/food instead of being dedicated gun decks it's possible you could fit more men on the same sized ships. Numinorian ships would still be bigger than any wooden ship we've ever built but not so far beyond imagination, just a little impractical in an age of cannons.
I lost it at Miriel asking who Elendil is. How about your relative? How about the governor of one of your provinces? How about the mayor of your country's second largest port?
This would be my worst fears confirmed - it is shocking they could have so little original source material to begin with (compared with LOTR) and still miss the key details.
@@Xevos701 This is very true and as someone who read the Silmarillion I have to point out that the Numenorians of this T.V. show look way too dark. You see, the largest house of men was the House of Hador and they basically look like Rohirrim. Goldenhaired and very fair. So if the Men of Hador was the largest house, and as the Numenorians are descended from all of the Edain shouldn't there be at least a few blondies in the show? But for some reason every last Numenorian looks like they are Beorian when only some of them would look like that. BTW Aragorn looks pretty much exactly like a stereotypical member of the House of Beor except for his extreme height which comes from his Hador blood.
Funny enough, I think I'll get them out this weekend. I counted them up last night, for Numenor alone I have 1 banner, 10 sword and shield, 22 spearmen and shield, 20 archers, 3 captains with shield, two captains on horseback, Elendil and Isildur both of whom are foot and mounted.
Macca I've been following your channel for a while now and I appreciate your Heresy content, but I'm happy you decided on a different topic, your thoughtful critique of the show and your insight on history, both real and fictional, is a pleasure to listen. Thank you!
@@erraticuk 1) It has been confirmed by people that have worked for the show (who have obviously remained anonymous) that he is indeed Sauron before the show was even released. 2) Everything they have leaked so far has been proven true. 3) If you paid attention you would see that this Sauron is trying to leave his past behind and "Galadriel" is pulling him kicking and screaming to Mordor. 4) The writers are creating an Aragorn character but sUbVeRsIoN he is actually the villain. Because they are talentless hacks.
You're talking about a production that didn't even hire professional fight choreographers for the fight scenes which look completely amateurish and unbelievable. Of course they didn't care about lore accuracy for Numenor, because they decided to throw away Tolkien's already written lore in the sheer hubris belief that they could write it better than Tolkien himself did! Galadriel is the height of arrogance because that's exactly the attitude of the writers. Amazon fired their Tolkien lore expert, Tom Shippey, after they decided they didn't care about making anything accurate. Just look at how they perverted the Silmarils by claiming that the power of the Silmarils fused with the power of a Balrog, a tree and a lightning bolt to form Mithril. UTTER RUBBISH perversion of Lore!!!
I'm sure an entire series of at least two dozen videos could be made, "Rings of Power Doesn't Understand (fill in the blank)." Elves Dwarves Galadriel Armor How Ships Work Water etc.
Thank you. I really respect your opinion in this video. There are a lot of haters out there who are trying to upend the world of JRR Tolkien. And it is a fresh relief to hear somebody really sit and discuss with their audience what it is that makes them not appreciate the Amazon series when compared with the literary work. I really enjoyed listening to this. Thank you very much. Have a great one.
It's very easy to dislike an adaption, but for me, the video is cathartic, a release. I don't ask you to like the video, or subscribe, I don't fall into any talking points about race or gender, I'm focused like a laser of the issue of title itself and it's rare for me to talk about media on this channel, but LOTR is a franchise close to my heart, with a tabletop game I've played since the turn of the millennium.
Subsribed. Not only because of the content of the video and how much I agreed wih you, but also because of the eloquence and knowledge you have shown in this video.
Yeah someone needs to tell these people not ever fantasy series needs to be game of thrones. The themes of Tolkeins work were inherently designed to be timeless but noooooo.
At first I thought they were just condensing all of the interesting bits of the Second Age into one time period, but when they showed the Palantír being able to predict the future instead of just being a magic webcam, I knew that nothing in canon was safe.
They have very poorly hinted Giladriel's companion is actually Sauron. Which makes her look like an idiot because she's supposedly been hunting him for centuries. She has known of his mark since he killed her brother but never looked at a map and realized it's the southlands? They can't write to save themselves.
@@danielcrafter9349 he keeps making comments about people not being who they seem. The man wants desperately to get to forges. There are also plot leaks, and so far they have been completely correct.
@@cultist1762 I remember when the posters came out when they showed Hal brand on the raft with Galadriel An mostly everone said “yeah that’s clearly Sauron”
You say that we have limitations in height for actors, but lord of the rings came out a quarter of a century ago, and they did just as fine with changing the heights of the characters. But great video! I enjoyed t he analysis!
They could even get away with simply casting all the Numenorians and Elves as 6 foot+ and show us some 5 foot tall regular men for comparison. 6 foot actors aren't exactly hard to find with the whole of the modern World to cast from.
That was the best analysis of ROP Numenor I've seen yet. Please do one on Galadriel. The way the show depicts her is everything she is not in the books. Actually, the whole show is just a train wreck, imo. Subbing to your channel now.
There is a lot that Ring of Power doesn't undestand, from how to structure a story to how to write dialog. If only Lore issues were this show's only problem.
Halbrand is Sauron, that's why he could beat the crap out of a few Numenoreans and why he is such a gifted smithy. It's why he was surprised that Adar didn't recognize him. It's why the wyrm attacked and the people he was with disappeared. And it's why they're trying to set up a thing between him and Galadriel, in order to up the shock factor.
I'm pretty sure the writers of the show made the queen of Numenor go "and who are you?" toward Elendil purely so she could come across as superior and condescending as a strong woman towards this guy and there was no actual thought going into her past possible report on this guy. In fact I'm willing to go as far as to guess they entirely glossed over it being so distracted by this one point they so desperately wanted to land 😂
LOL she didn't know Elendil was her cousin because Amazon's producers fired their Tolkien LORE EXPERT, Tom Shippey, before production of this abomination even finished!
even if we entertain the idea that the Queen is not related to Elendil how is that the Queen of a militar nation doesn't know the captains of her tiny fleet. I would understand if she doesn't know every captain of an armada of thousands.
@@Diogolindir She seems to know him well enough to entrust him her fleet that goes to ME. Not to mention giving him important tasks, right after "Who are you?" ^^ Ah yeah, I love this believable immersion they are creating * cough *
@@Diogolindir Exactly your point is the other inaccuracy in the show. Numenor is supposed to be the naval super power of Middle Earth. It should have hundreds if not thousands of ships. But the fact that in this show they can only afford to send out THREE boats to suppress the orcs in the southlands? PATHETHIC!
The 7 year siege of Barad Dur is at the Last Alliance, vs Ar-Pharazon simply rocking up to the fight or the first war of the Elves and Sauron where the Numenoreans ambushed him.
In this video you have demonstrated a fair amount of knowledge about our ancient history and what effects and implications it had on the world, not to mention knowledge about Tolkien's lore. I'd be hard pressed to believe anybody involved in the show had but a smidgeon of that knowledge. And that's why they produced what they did. Yay for nerds. I only watched the first two episodes of the show and decided it wasn't for me. But I do enjoy well informed and nicely articulated essays like yours quite a bit. Thank you.
I've read the books 20 years ago when I was in my early teens. I dont remember all the details but this video is great summary how I feel too. You got yourself a subscriber.
Great video. One small quibble: 11:52 - Sauron willingly surrendered because his plan was to corrupt the Numenoreans all along, but I will concede your point about the Numenorean army's strength is correct. Also, even without the One Ring, Sauron is a Maïar of the Ainur. He is a demigod at that point in history regardless of what he's wearing.
Sigh... They understand them just fine. The entire point is to tear down pop cukture. It's all deliberate. It's part of demoralization. It's well coordinated, it happens across many fronts at once. Finance, culture, Academia, music etc. Its exhausting explaining this stuff, because half the people call you crazy, the other half don't even give a shit.... But then they wonder why suicide rates are sky rocketing and everything sucks. Yeah, it's all an accident. All our beloved storied and folklore being shit on, all some major coincidence.
Sad to say but this type of info cant be forced on people. It doesn't matter how correct you are, at the end of the day, you are trying to explain to people that they have been fooled. It doesn't matter the topic, when they sense that, the walls go up. Find someone who shows some interest in these types of things and just drop clues or hints for them to pursue on their own. They have to feel like they figured this out for themselves.
Come on don't be stupid and self righteous, there's nothing dumber than thinking you've actually figured out some world spanning plot that "explains " everything, the world is a fairly shitty place most people are cunts and those in power are corrupt, like just accept that and stop convincing YOURSELF that you've solved something, you haven't. We all know how corrupt the world is, it's no big secret.
Dont waste your time or sanity trying to discuss this(or anything really) with avarage people, reality is 80-85% of people are not capable of changing their mind based on arguments/discussion, especially not online. Thats something you realize once you spent some years trying to do it. The avarage person is too conformist, follower-type and of avarage intelligent. Women especially so(men have more outliers). If you want to change how large amounts of people think, you need influence and reach, and think more of it more like doing propoganda or leading a flock rather than thinking you can convince them with facts and logic. Thats the brutal truth. Thats also why modern western democracy too is largely a charade, more media-rule than it is rule of the people. Also a large reason for why western civilization is(and has for several decades) going downhill fast. Most people are followers, and those who are the leaders in our civilization now, i.e cultural elites, hollywood, media, politicians, social media tech giants, influencers etc. are leading them down a very bad maladaptive path. One can yell out all the facts and logic and sources one like to try battle it but it bounces off them like water on a goose. You can find people who are intelligent enough and open minded enough and capable of seeing things from different sides and thus be open to discussion and changing their mind, but those people are so few it bears no impact on society unless they are someone with a lot of power or influence.
I prefer the Elves fighting at Helm's Deep to the Dunedain company. I like how in the waning of the world of the Third Age, there was this one final moment between elves and men that harkens back to a bygone age of greatness that we saw briefly in the prologue. Moreover, these Elves are there to help, not the men of Numenor descent, but the typical normal life span men who have probably never seen Elves in their lives, but heard of their legends and grace. There's something special about that, that I think the Dunedain and Elrond's two sons turning up couldn't offer.
The Grey Company came after the battle of helms deep and they accompanied Aragorn through the paths of the dead. This would have been instead of the Arwen scene. Btw the sword was reforged and given back to Aragorn at the Rivendell Council at the start of the quest. In the books it was actually Gandalf and the remaining Lords of the Eorlingas rallying previously scattered troops which showed up and saved Helms Deep. They weren't in time to get inside the fortress but were just in time for the charge outside.
I thought my apprehension was my own but im glad others feel the same way thank you for explaining everything so elegantly and giving the written story by Tolkien so much more respect then the show ever will (best to be read and not watched)
I agree completely. The tale of Númenor is one of first benevolence and willingness to share. They come, as specifically mentioned in the works, as friends and helpers of the lesser Men of Middle-earth, and end up as conquistadors and exploiters. This is an evolution of centuries (if I remember correctly it takes about a millennium). When Ar-Pharazôn sails with his fleet and lands at Umbar, he humbles Sauron, who is brought in chains to Númenor. That is how powerful the Númenoreans are. I would say (to extrapolate on what you said) that they are a combination of Atlantis (Atalantë), the British Empire and the Carthaginians. Yes, Tolkien mentions specifically the dockyards of Rómenna. The point about Elendil son of Amandil is also important. It would have been like Queen Elizabeth I not knowing who the Earl of Essex was or King Charles III not recognising Liz Truss. These are people you met and played with during childhood, like George V, Kaiser Wilhelm II and Tsar Nicholas.
The show is pretty bad. And now imagine how bad a 40K or even Heresy show would be in the hands of producers and show runners like this. I don’t even want to think about it.
Being a fan of Tolkien's writing since grade school I think it was during middle school and high school when I first read the Silmarilion and then the Lost tales. Rings of Power doesn't understand Middle Earth, it is not merely the Numenoreans they do not nor it seems will ever understand. I'm not a scholar of Middle Earth but I have well rounded understanding of each age, most of the people and their customs, technology, strengths and weaknesses. Having Elendil and Ilsidur play second fiddle to Galadriel and Miriel obscene, offensive and moronic. Galadriel was not a soldier nor the warrior that Elendil was; Rings of Power is full of woke nonsense. I was thought the Silmarilion would such a wonderful book to adapt to perhaps a tv series; but watching how Amazon has employed 'there' vision and 'there' agenda the show is too repulsive to tolerate. Elves were always spoken and referred to as "light, pale and fair"; Rings of Power uses, abuses race, feminism while undermining males/masculinity and even logic in a medieval times. The elvish kings Elrond and Gil-Galad are not spared being sacrificed on the woke altar as they are made weak, feeble and incompetent. It is painful to me to think that Gil-Galad and Elendil were the ones valiantly fought Sauron; but this show is so demeaning to the point of being disrespectful. The Rings of Power should have focused on Elendil, Ilsidur, Gil-Galad and Sauron; not all these women who undermine, belittle and supplant all males/men. Rings of Power shouldn't be thought of as being connected to Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit; it is show that cares more about virtue signaling that actually creating quality content. Rings of Power is a show that: race swaps, gender switches, nostalgia baiting, woke, anti men, anti masculinity, SJW, intersectional feminism, fan hating, r@cist, putrid trash.
My man... I think you've drank a bit too much of the anti-SJW cool aid. You're sounding like the mirror image of the SJW Stereotype... Seeing ''agendas'' and wokeness in everything...
CORRECTION Sauron surrendered willingly. That was his plan. He had the personal power to wipe out the whole fleet if he wanted to. Sauron showed that by forming a mountain-size wave. Even Tolkien speculated that in his letters.
Yup. The same scene also capsizes all the "Sauron's fair form was effeminate" fanart going around. The Numenoreans felt insecure around him because he looked like a super Numenorean.
'Rome going through 3rd century crisis & 747's flying overhead.' Loved this mate! ROP is a sad attempt at the incredible lore of Tolkien. I recently dug out Children of Hurin, and the way it was written, the mannerisms of the text and speech, ROP has destroyed it thoroughly.
Yep, the scales are way off. Numenor's population at its height including its colonies was around 18m, ROP makes Armenelos look like a township, not a major Capital...this show is really bad!
Weirdly the show has this issue where the ARCHITECTURE is grand beyond belief, and then within that architecture they never show more than like 50 people even when theres supposed to be a great crowd theyre addressing. How they hit low-budget tv scale issues on a series they spent a BILLION DOLLARS on I'll never understand
Those things you mentioned in the beginning ARE valid criticisms of the show, it's just that the show is so bad that they are pretty irrelevant, like complaining about a broken toe when your entire arm has been lobbed off at the shoulder.
I've been reviewing the series. And its really painful to watch. On its own standing, so ignoring the Tolkien stuff. The series is shit. The writing, acting, and aesthetics, is really bad.
The funny thing is that sekksy shelob in Shadow of War was a pretty dumb idea, but most people shrugged and said "eh, whatever." A whole show of dumb ideas is harder to get passed people.
Actually portraying Miriel as having a dark-skin while her father is White (like all Numenoreans since they were northern Men) is incoherent with the Numenorean mentality : that means her father maried someone who obviously was not Numenorean (don't even need to wait to see if the queen consort lived a few centuries), who came from far away (far in the south, even outside of the map), while a good match would have been someone coming from the Numenorean nobility. With Numenoreans deeply caring about keeping their long lifespan and whatnot, such a wedding would have been at least as scandalous as Edward VIII marrying an American divorcee in our timeline. They did take it very seriously : later in the Third Age when a Gondorian king married a non-Numenorean, it triggered a civil war upon his succession. Doing that move while Numenor was already divided between 2 factions would have been unthinkable. Another example when by aiming at quotas, this is incoherent with the lore.
*Well we know the Atani mated with Easterlings during the First Age and that the Numenoreans of the line of Elros mated with the women of Harad post Eru's fury ~ But during the SA there shouldn't be swarthy, dark, brown or black Numenoreans for obvious reasons -- at least on the mainland ~*
very well done review. share this with Rings Of Power. I have read the silmarillion twice and you have done your research well because this is very accurate and it makes me want to read it again.
The second part in this newly forming series, on Galadriel is up now.
I don't think Sauron surrendered because they are stronger than him (on individual level that they could capture or kill him). As ruler especially without his army he is defeated and cannot conquer. But i think he surrendered on purpose to corrupt them. Because he is individually stronger than the average Burog. He basically without magic powers he can probably with the one ring go face to face with Gothmog. So i think he could have with vampires and few unites on undead rathe - or even by himself alone go all out would have just destroyed their army.
I think fighting Sauron with one ring is like fighting 10 Smaugs. He is immortal and a spiritual being at the core. He is like at least 100 Gandalf the gray in one.
You don't like where the show going because they going to make Sauron the good guy but the rest are stupid and afraid of change.
@@ailediablo79 I have also corrected him on that in a comment.
@@pyktukasplays4945 he could at least runway. I wouldn't suprise if he could teleport useing one ring. He definitely could fly like a jet. Absolute minimum he could hide and escape. Maby transform to a gaint super wolf/man wolf and run or to a great eagle or a small flying dragon. There is manyways. Or a small bird/bat
@@ailediablo79 Why would he need to do that? He could have wiped out the whole fleet if he wanted to.
Sauron showed that by causing a mountain-size wave.
@@pyktukasplays4945 he wasn't there when fleet arrived. Because they attacked from the north first.
Numenoreans in lore: Men awarded with long lives and strong bodies, only to become jealous of Elves' immortality, a cautionary tale of a gift awakening greed.
Numenoreans in Amazon: THEY TERK ERR JEBS
EY TOOK ER JERBS!!!
Grognards sweating hard on this one.
😂
Lead by strong powerful women !!!!
Yes but it wasn't "jelousy" so much as fear. The fear of death.
Galadriel is a powerful elf mage and loremaster who could probably draw out someone's spine with a mean look if she so wanted and she's literally older than the sun and the moon. In Rings of Power she's a moody insufferable brat.
Biggest nerf of rings of power they really don't like females with power
@@raeldri5867
It's pretty much all modern storytelling. In order to have a "strong female character", you simply take a woman, remove all semblance of femininity or positive emotions, and have them growl and glare their way through the show/movie, constantly talking down to everyone around them, and smugly showing off how superior they are, especially to men, who will grovel and prostrate themselves before their female overlord. That's why they nixed Celeborn from their show. Can't have their "strong female lead" be shackled by anything patriarchal like marriage or children.
@@wumpusrat In other words, they write woman as unlikeable men. Mainly because they want so badly for them to be as popular and iconic as classic male heroes. Problem is they don’t understand what made them popular to begin with.
Lastly they fail to understand what makes female heroes unique. Because they are different than male heroes. They have feminine qualities and behaviors that set them apart from their male counterparts. Because for some reason being feminine at all is now weak. They are literally feeding into the stereotype they are supposedly fighting against.
@@wumpusrat It's a writer shortcoming, many Hollywood writers have no clue how to write characters other than default white male or some stereotype.
@@rotwang2000
I wouldn't say it's "default white male". It's more like "generic action hero". Have to be tough, smirky, and better than everyone else. Putting those traits on the "typical male action hero" tends to make them simply generic and uninteresting. Putting them on the "strong female character" type and they just become annoying Karens. They need to look back at examples of ACTUAL strong female characters, like Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, Princess Leia, etc. You can be strong AND feminine at the same time. But modern writers hate femininity.
If peter Jackson could make Ian McKellen tower over the hobbits 20 years ago they can make an actor look 7'11"
On the plus side, now I can re-watch the trilogy.
Like, it is fine that the actor is not 7'11'', but at least make him look taller than the rest. But nope, let's just put a normal sized actor, who is going to care?
@@jzayas5698 At the bare minimum they could find a guy who's on the taller side.
thank you come again - in Indian accent(and i can make that joke cos im Sri Lankan and we are basically the same)
Spitting facts! It's almost as if they intentionally didn't want to make a man look more powerful than the far more stunning and brave female characters.
You know that giant army of men in the flashback in the beginning of LOTR?
Those are Arnorians and Gondorians. They are, essentially, Numenor's LEFTOVERS, a pale SHADOW of the lost might of Numenor.
How great was Numenor, then, that such a great force of powerful warriors was but a pale imitation?
When Numenor marched on Mordor against Sauron, SAURON SURRENDERED WITHOUT A FIGHT BECAUSE HE KNEW HE COULDN'T WIN BY MARTIAL POWER. Instead he destroyed Numenor by influencing their culture over many, many years with poisonous words and ideas given by a silver tongue dripping in honey.
He knew he couldn't win against Numenor with armies so he didn't even try. He killed Numenor from within because it was the only way he could.
THAT is how great Numenor was. How great and powerful its armies.
So great that Sauron DIDN'T EVEN PRETEND he could match them in battle, not even at the greatest height of his power, with the One Ring on his hand.
In the show it shows that a group of warriors can easily get bested and shown up by a single elf in combat.
I agree so much, the numenorean kingdoms in exile were SOOO powerful yet just a shadow of Númenor's former glory
Sauron did fight against the Numenoreans in the first intervention when they came in and destroyed Saurons armies in the West that had been hammering the Elvish kingdoms. Sauron probably wasn't at the height of his power in the 2nd intervention by Ar Pharazon. However having said that totally true the Numenoreans were incredibly strong certainly stronger than the combined Elvish realms at the time of the first intervention. At any point when ROP is taking place Numenor should be a strong seafaring nation with colonies in Middle Earth rather than what looks like a citystate.
@@nath9091 I did add the qualifier 'when they marched on Mordor', Sauron thought he could take them at first when they first showed up, and then they curbstomped him he learned otherwise and ran back to Mordor with his tail between his legs and leaving a trail of yellow behind him.
I would say, though, that he was at the height of HIS power, having his original body still, all his magical power thereof, AND the One Ring on top, and answered to no master but himself.
Prior to that, he was subservient, and thus lesser in personal power.
@UC8YCsFD8U32jhvPjvIT52yg
...try again.
Numenor intervened because Sauron was burning Eregion.
Sauron was burning Eregion because Celebrimbor made the last three Rings without him and hid them while he was away forging the One.
At this point, the One Ring was existing. The Ring existed before his captivity in Numenor, and he survived the destruction of Numenor because of it.
At no point from his capture by the Numenoreans to the destruction of Numenor did Sauron leave Numenor.
If the Ring didn't exist when Sauron was taken captive to Numenor, how then did it save him from death during the destruction of Numenor?
Rings of Power doesn't understand Tolkien.
There, fixed it for you.
They do, but the plan is to change it in order to make it woke...
@@faustomadebr what so far has made it woke?
@@hardcorehistorybuff5230 Galadriel and Tar-Míriel, they both are wrongly portraited so they can try to show traditional male power instead of showing how these characters are strong in different ways.
@@faustomadebr lmaoo no lol
@@hardcorehistorybuff5230 You are free to be wrong.
Amazon took one of Middle-Earth's most powerful, educated and advanced cultures - a culture that even Sauron, at the height of his power, envied and feared - and turned them into a joke.
About the Hobbit, when Del Toro suddenly left, Peter Jackson was given THREE MONTHS to come up with a plan, as opposed to the four years he had to prepare for Lord of the Rings. (the other option was sacking thousands of people).
That also affected the Hobbit movies.
If one looks hard, as a number of have done, there is still the makings of one good movie in The Hobbit trilogy, by reducing it to a single movie. Jackson, not only was writing scripts as the movie progressed, he was also being obligated to come up with a trilogy of movies which required way too much filler...and which The Hobbit was not, in any way, shape or form. On a positive note, Jackson understood many of the characters, their motivations, their weaknesses, their strengths. ROP seems to give us too many one dimensional characters.
Good point, Sauron could only beat them by tricking them and corrupting the minds from the inside, not from out.
there was also a lot of studio meddling, (he only wanted 2 movies, warner bros forced 3)
@@TheMonkeygoneape I was more bothered about the `romance'. I liked the characters involved but I found the whole business kind of awkward.
To be honest, that makes me appreciate the Hobbit movies more, knowing the situation they put in Jacksons lap. I think he did pretty well all things considered.
Its funny how house of the dragon has a timeskip every episode and could probably work without them, while rings of power is in desperate need some kind of timeskip
A show with elves should 100% timeskip.
House Of the Dragon is another agenda driven garbage.
I'll settle for skipping every episode
I recall them saying something like they did not want timeskips so that they did not have to constantly recast characters, and only having some appear for one episode before dying of old age.
Making seasonal timeskips could have been a daring choice... but one which pays off.
"Do you know how the shills first came into being?"
"They were human once, taken by the dark powers, tortured and mutilated!"
"A ruined and terrible form of life, now; perfected."
"My shilling Amabots"
"Whom do you serve?"
"BEZOS"
Perfection! ❤
Beautiful! XD
Based and Sarumanpilled
This comment is more Tolkien like than The Rings of Power
Slow clap ensues.
Amazon wanted their own Game of Thrones, but with the added impetus of taking an existing IP and "updating" it for the world of today. So on the one hand you have them trying to replicate a tone they don't understand, while at the same time trying to inject terrible ideologies into a carefully constructed work.
They don't know how to do either, and it shows.
Also they cant even ape the existing work, because they didnt even bother to get the right IP rights. Wonder why they didnt show Ungoliant? Thats why. Laziness with the rights
They also picked just about the worst ip possible to try and 'modernize.'
The second Lindsay Weber said "we want a Middle Earth that reflects the modern world" was when any kind of hope I had for the show died. Tolkien, a staunch Traditionalist and Conservative would despise the very notion of being progressive and post-modern. If they can't capture this part of Tolkien, then they messed up in such a tremendous way. They've also seemed to have missed Catholic themes, another tremendous failure on their part.
Their biggest mistake is seeing Tolkien as just another fantasy, rather than seeing Tolkien's work the way Tolkien intended, which is a mythology. And to their ignorance of thinking that they have the right to make Tolkien for the rest of the world, Tolkien specifically intended this work to be for the English - not that everyone else is excluded from enjoying it, but to have the hubris to Americanise an English mythology is, in my opinion, 'cultural appropriation' - the thing that the show's supporters constantly whinge about.
But if you dislike ROP you're a racist and sexist!
@@JangoUnchained98 which was also the explanaition why they use black actors, they want to make it "feel like the world we see infront of our window", which is funny because i am from central europe, we don´t have a larg population of black people, we got tons of people from east europe, asia or the orient and arabia, but we barly see any of those minorities, i can only recall 2 characters that were neither white nor black and that was the herb ladie which looks like near/middle east and her "son" that somehow looks more like someone from india or even native north american...
all the rest is black which might be a great representation of the US or maybe spain and france but not for the world as a whole, if that would be the case 30% of cast members would need to be asian or indian.^^
You could replace "Numenoreans" with any part of the Lords of the Rings lore and be correct.
Mostly because they just don't care.
And if you criticise you’re a racist.
seems so
Rings of power doesn't understand a lot of things , like good writing, cannon, casting etc..
Elves at Helm's Deep or even Frodo's excursion to Osgiliath are a detail change, but do not significantly alter the general shape or themes of the story. "There was things which he stretched, but mainly he told the truth," as Huckleberry Finn said of Mr. Twain's book about Tom Sawyer.
Making the Númenoreans' split with the Eldar a sort of vague race prejudice apparently based on nothing (or possibly concern over jobs) instead of a long-developing resentment of their endless lives isn't just a bit of story compression, and it isn't 'mainly the truth'; it is missing one of the most important themes in the tale. Making the forging of the Rings a way of avoiding the imminent fading of the Eldar (and perhaps the Moriquendi-they don't say) because mumble-mumble-mithril-valinor-light-mumble isn't just a change of detail, it completely undermines the idea of Celebrimbor's trying to stop Time, those 'mortal summers that flicker and pass upon this Middle-earth'. So it isn't just changes for simple dramatic reasons; the emerging tale has almost nothing in common with the source material in Lord of the Rings (never mind the Silmarillion). Indeed, one struggles in vain to find _any_ line in Appendix B's chronology that corresponds closely to anything in this story, even if the dates are all different.
Even taking away all references to Tolkien, filing off the names from everything, they are doing a terrible job of portraying a Secondary World. Númenor has many ships, like the one on which we meet Elendil (we do not even know whether this ship is east or west of Númenor). They are not fishing boats, because we see no fish, nets, etc. And we are told nothing of any colonies nor settlements on the continent to the east, and it certainly seems that the Elves of Lindon, who deploy their police force as far as Mordor-to-be, know nothing of such places. So where do these ships go? Who are their trading partners? In this telling, this Númenor mostly resembles a cheap 'city module' tabletop RPG supplement. There are some number of ships. There are sailors for those ships. There are horses, in unknown numbers, and stables and a cavalry, though we do not know why. There are soldiers, but there is no evidence that any have fought in a battle anywhere. There are tradesmen, but where are their goods sold? There are named NPCs in high positions whose motivations seem to change with the roll of dice. This 'Númenor' module, in other words, has no context at all, no world in which it exists until the dungeon-master introduces bits of it at the necessary time. It could be plugged into any middle-schooler's RPG campaign with little or no change (and the middle-schooler would do a better time keeping track of dates and distances).
It's not just bad Tolkien; it's careless, amateurish, and finally uninteresting fantasy storytelling.
PS. I do wonder if the only fantasy that Payne and McKay have experienced outside of the cinema (prior to having to read Tolkien for this project) was indeed roleplaying games. It might explain some of the more dubious storytelling decisions.
I don't know that much about the numenorians I only read the silmarillion. For me the show captures the themes of Tolkien pretty good. Don't really understand all the hate. They don't have the rights to silmarillion so of course there are a few changes but I don't see that much shitting on lore like everybody claims. As I said maybe the numenorean stuff isn't accurate but stuff like the mithril doesn't really matter until everything gets resolved. For me they clearly set the mithril story up to be false, elrond even said it's just a story, most think it's bullshit. My guess is Annatar is already there, deceiving celebrimbor, poisoning the tree and manipulates them in to building the forge and getting mithril from the dwarves. Basically my point is a lot of the lore breaking stuff people talk about doesn't really change the lore because it's just fake information and I think in the following seasons we will see how all this fake stuff gets resolved (probably by elrond).
The show is called rings of power for a reason and the fact that we basically didn't see anything about it leads me to believe we just think we didn't see anything but in reality everything has to do with the creation of the rings because Sauron is already completly controlling the elves.
Changes are necessary, otherwise you can't put 2000 years in to a watchable show but until now I can't see major lore or theme changes (maybe numenor, as I said thats the part I don't know much about).
But of course everybody has his own opinion. I can just recommend watching Rings and Realms, it's an analysis of a professor that studied Tolkien forever. And after I watched every episode of the analysis and with the knowledge I had because I read silmarillion, the show feels totally fine for me and actually does a lot of accurate things that sometimes just seem lore breaking when in reality they aren't really. We have just seen 10% of the show. There are tons of ways things can turn out accurate but because people think the writers are dumb and aren't able to actually write a plot, nobody even tries to create interesting theories and just hates on it (just my guess, of course it could also be that the mithril stuff and other things are actually the way they wanna go, then I agree it's dumb and bad lore breaking writing xD)
Just saying as long as there is a way to turn things around maybe wait until we got the actual plot of the show before hating it that hard.
Spot on.
You're correct. The themes have been abandoned in favour of blank module fan fiction RPG elements.
I've always said "a highschool nerd could do a better job with their own can fiction than this"...
How did you feel about the master plan of Adar to open a floodgate and create a small river which made a mountain explode, and Galadriel took a pyroclastic impact to the face, unharmed?
Still good writing?
@@rageagainstmyhatchet As the original commentor didn't say it's good writing, I guess you are asking me? If not feel free to ignore me ^^
I didn't like that the key for the flooding was the sword, I loved the general idea that they let mount doom erupt and it Makes sense to let a river go in to lava to make it explode.
Didn't like so much that galadriel takes the cloud to the face but at least the scene looked cool. In this case I agree it was bad writing but as it would have been so easy to change it I can ignore that part. Maybe she survives because she is one of the most powerful elves? But that would mean everybody else dies so I doubt it :D
From writing point I'm not an expert so that's actually stuff I can't really argue against. I just don't think the actual story/plot is that bad and to me the show still feels like Tolkien. The show runners clearly know a lot about Tolkien otherwise there wouldn't be so many hints/Easter eggs/similarities, even though they have to make an original story because of copyright.
I imagine the Numenorean ships like those the admiral Zheng He is said to have commanded: at least 200, maybe even 400 feet long.
I also imagine that Amazon made their Numenor so laughably puny in sets and people because they were trying so hard to keep all their doings secret.
Numenor's population prior to the fall was something like 15 million. The city that Galadriel is in looks like it has a population of MAYBE 1000, despite all their attempts with cgi to make it look huge. At best. It's pitifully small.
@@wumpusrat At least in the PJ movies, they get across a sense of scale correctly. Minas Tirath feels large, and is full of people and history. You can tell by looking at it it's the capital of a once proud and strong nation that has fallen into stagnation. The armies feel huge, the battles are chaotic and loud, the distances the Fellowship have to traverse are shown in their deteriorating appearances and flagging energy.
@@camerapasteurize7215 My biggest gripe with PJs movies is that there's no farmland anywhere. Minas Tirith apparently imports all its food.
One has to wonder, where the hell did they spend all their budget on? A lot of the armor look cheap and the grand scale just isn't there.
It's been pretty amusing. Watching from afar it looks like another "Halo".
Ignoring most of the source material to write the story they want and failing at it.
Halo is a work of art that holds true to the source material compared to this abomination.
@@mainepants Pfft How? The Tv Show of Halo is One of the Worst Bastardizations of an IP I Have Ever Seen, Honestly it’s Worse than Rings of Power in that Aspect.
At least they said the halo series was not canon...
@@francozanetti852 They Did With this One too Didn’t They? I Thought they Were Adamant about this being a Newer and Better Canon? I Might be Wrong though.
Sauron was in shock when he saw Numenor and this was in its decaying days, it's basically an island of Feanors, they were taller and stronger than most elves and their cities and works dwarfed many of Valinor. Basically it's a glimpse in what humans will be in the Second Music when all races reach a higher understanding
That is a unique interpretation.
“Island of Feanors”
Yeaaaaaaaah no. That’s giving a lot of credit to the average Numenorian civilian. Feanor is a being of great power. Perhaps the most powerful elf of his era.
Numenorians are obviously very powerful, but there are levels to this thing. Feanor had incredible power. Numenorians aren’t on that level. MAYBE like Elendil fits that description, but random Numenorians weren’t remotely as naturally powerful as Feanor. I don’t see any Numenorians crafting Silmarils, you know?
@@austinherrington7049 That's why I wrote _"That is a unique interpretation"_
Feanor was pierced by a balrog's blade.
Now, of course, we don't know if those were Balrogs like Durin's Bane or balrogs, like the many monsters.
(They were developed into maia later. Until then they were troll/orc level threat.)
Also, Feanor could insinerare his enemies.
His body burned away after Feanor's death. That was because of the firey spirit the elf had.
@@austinherrington7049 Maybe that person meant to write "an island of Aragorns"?
@@austinherrington7049 Probably the most powerful elf EVER. Heck, Feanor might just have been the greatest being in the history of the entire world that wasn't an Ainur. No one ever had nor probably ever will match his incredible craftsmanship and creativity, and he was also described as being immensely strong and skilled in combat as well.
@Pyktukas plays This is rather incorrect about the balrogs, on many levels. We know the balrog that killed Feanor--his name was Gothmog, and he was the lieutenant of Morgoth. He was one of the strongest balrogs in existence. Also, balrogs were NOT "developed into Maia later". That is the exact opposite of what happened. They started out as Maia, but were corrupted and twisted after treacherously following Melkor/Morgoth, and became the horrors they are seen as now. They were FAAAAAR more than a "troll/orc level threat." Good golly mate, MORGOTH HIMSELF was getting wrecked by Ungoliant, but when he called for help, balrogs came and drove her away. These things have VERY few matches in power in the entire world.
Honestly the height thing could have simply been handled with camera tricks like it was in the making of the movies.
But that requires effort and creativity...
@@antonintresl1761 the show runners are using the last year of the GoT is inspiration....
@@antonintresl1761 And talent.
They didn't have enough money per episode . . . lolza.
Man, they've made Tom Cruise look tall on many movies, I'm sure they could've figured something out to give us fuck off huge Numenoreans
I don't humor cultural vandalism with a second of thought about it, not even hate watching or (no offence) this video. Just reminding people: when they spit in your face, don't fund them. They can't create anything, they want to get a rise out of you. Make sure they're forgotten and redouble your appreciation for the real art people make.
I just see it as amusing that money can't make good work, the books are still enjoyable, and the films fantastic. No Amazon slave employing jerkoff has anything to do with LOTOR.
When someone slaps you, don't ignore it and run away, especially if that's what they tell you to do as they strike you. Instead stand your ground, turn the other cheek and dare them to see what happens. Don't slink away when attacked, attack back.
Exactly. Even the movies got it wrong in their flashback to the last allience. These people are the literal definition of ubermensch, in all ways superior to the men of gondor and rohan in the 3rd age. An island nation of Conans who after the split were led by a 7'11 warlord/king called Elendil 'The Tall'. They were not this soy level militia Amazon portrays being schooled by an elf. Fanfiction and nothing else.
Maedhros' epitaph is "The Tall", not Elendil's
Elendill has the nickname “the tall”
Using the term "soy level" unironically descredits you from being seen as putting forth reasonable criticism, though.
@Yeast Yeast ironic since thats not true in any sense of the word. Soys damn good for you and damn good food source, stop shitting on it.
@@dekai7992 sounds like a soy sucker to me.
I love Lord of the Rings. I loved the films. Love the books. Love the game. I was so hyped for this show. Watched several episodes several times. I TRIED to like it. It is SOOOO bad. You barely scratched the surface of all this shows problems, and more than lore, it just has bad writing and unlikable characters who we are clearly supposed to like.
100% even if pretending it's just generic fantasy and isnt trying to murder tolkien's work, the writing is absolutely terrible
There is nothing Tolkien about this show. You take away the names of characters and places, and you have a really bad generic fantasy show.
I already knew it would be horrible
Back in the Xbox days I had Return of the King, it was so f-ing epic! Slaying orcs like a boss, throwing spears at trolls, punking the deserter ghosts.
I tried the War in the North, and it was also unexpectedly good. Couldn’t stop playing, it was exactly what I wanted.
Shadow of Mordor/War are great, but they lack something for me, they’re thin, in a way, because there is so much grind, and the collectibles are cool, but it grows tiresome pretty quick. Loved the outfits in SoW.
Wheel of time was a red flag
Amazon hired the cheapest directors, the cheapest producers, the cheapest actors (Morfydd Clark who plays the woeful Galadriel got paid just $20K per episode! Even Amazon knew she wasn't worth much!) and the cheapest visuals. So where has ONE BILLION DOLLARS GONE; either they are trying to con the viewer or it’s a huge money laundering scheme.
Why did they pick dwarf Morfydd to play tall elf?
@@mikaelp7840 didn't half of the entire budget go towards the rights?
@@nicklomas181 let's say it did..that leaves half a billion dollars, which is still bigger then most movie budgets, and is just obscene for a TV show
@@agentchaos9332 The idea of it being a money laundering scheme is amusing
They know exactly what they are doing. It's a malicious act of cultural vandalism.
Nobody cares. Its just a show.
@@joshuaginn792 It's not just about a show, it's emblematic of the times we are living through and it embodies the cancer at the heart of our culture. Sure, you can look at it in a vacuum as just a shitty show, but that wouldn't explain the reactions many are having to the show, more and more are tired of the cultural and societal rot that is eating away the ashes of our civilization. That's why it matters, it's the biggest show made recently, so it has major cultural significance.
@@joshuaginn792 Then why watch the or comment?
@@Ethnarches Don't worry about Josh, He's just a pole-smokin' commie.
No, it's really just a show
Numenoreans based on Tolkien:
- They are descendants of the Edain of the 1st age who fought alongside Elves against Morgoth in the War of Wraths who later got aid from Eonwe who led the host of Valar in defeating Morgoth.
- They are strong in body and mind, and tall stature ( Elendil himself is described as 7.11ft tall)
- During second age, They are the most advanced Kingdom of men in military and might ( has very strong naval forces as well)
- After the War of the Wrath Tolkien also mentioned that Eonwe came among them and taught them; and they were given wisdom and power and life more enduring than any others of mortal race have possessed.
- Eonwe being a maia was referred to as the "greatest of arms in Arda," meaning that he was the best with weapons and we know maia is divine beings ( much like Valar, but weaker), but still immensely stronger than an elf or a man
Conclusion: we can safely say that Numenoreans over generations should have some knowledge and understanding in weapon combat. Also they should have known or be familiar with orcs, as their ancestor fought not just orcs but enemies, much worse than orcs, like dragons, balrogs and so on.
But unfortunately the Amazon version of the Numenorans are so far from what Tolkien described, we don't see the same depiction of Numenoreans we hope to see, these men looks weak and seems like ordinary men who cant even fight with a sword. This is very clear from the Training/ Sparring scene in ep5 of RoP, between Guyladriel against these young Numenoreans. Yes in the books she's actually never been to Numenor and yes, she is an elf and a very ancient one, we know by this time she is already over 1000 years old, because she was born before 1st age in the year of trees. But again Numenoreans being taught by a Maia, not an elf, not a man, they should at least show that they are able to fight and can stand their ground. The teaching and the training from Eonwe, should have meant something. Nothing of that shown during the training/sparring scene, all you see is an elf toyed, mocked and humiliated these poor numenoreans and kicked their assess to the ground. It's just a sad portrayal.
My jaw dropped when the Elf children sunk Galadriel's paper boat and were mean, spiteful and aggressive. Not really in keeping with Tolkien's beautiful, intelligent, ethereal beings. Awful.
"Therefore they grew wise and glorious, and in all things more like the firstborn than any of the other kindreds of Men; and they were tall, taller than the tallest of the sons of Middle Earth; and the light in their eyes was like bright stars." -The Silmarillion
Well i would officially like to put in a request for more rants about Rings of Power by all means do a 40 min rant on Galadriel and all the rest.
Speaking of Imperial Britain, the largest ships of the line ever built had crews of 4-600 men, including marines and supply officers and other non-sailors. Even if we assume that “several thousand” only means a crew of two thousand, that would make your average Numenorian warship four times or more the displacement of the largest real life wooden warships ever constructed.
Well, you are talking about a culture of demigod like seafaring men who Tolkien considered making an industrialized power. They made towers and walls that are nigh indestructible, the Palantiri and who knows what else. If anyone could pull that off, aside from elves, it would be the men of Numenor.
Edit: Nevermind the palantir part, I'm an idiot.
given the sheer amount of forest that is missing due to the numenoreans i'm.... not surprised.
if the shire is the size of britain, a cursory look at the maps would indicate at least a germany's worth of missing woodland.
I mean the warship Adler von Lübeck had a compliment of 1,000 men (including non-sailors) and had 138 cannons+ammo on board while being up to 3,000 tons of displacement. If Numinorian warships had ballista/comparable weapons on top but used lower decks for storing men/food instead of being dedicated gun decks it's possible you could fit more men on the same sized ships. Numinorian ships would still be bigger than any wooden ship we've ever built but not so far beyond imagination, just a little impractical in an age of cannons.
Yep, they have no idea how to write this kind of details.
I lost it at Miriel asking who Elendil is. How about your relative? How about the governor of one of your provinces? How about the mayor of your country's second largest port?
How about the guy you see every time you show up at the Kings Council meetings?
This would be my worst fears confirmed - it is shocking they could have so little original source material to begin with (compared with LOTR) and still miss the key details.
Tbf, how can one miss a target, if he did never aim for it?
The Numenoreans look too alike the Gondorians, who are but said to be a pale semblence of Numenor
@@Xevos701 This is very true and as someone who read the Silmarillion I have to point out that the Numenorians of this T.V. show look way too dark. You see, the largest house of men was the House of Hador and they basically look like Rohirrim. Goldenhaired and very fair. So if the Men of Hador was the largest house, and as the Numenorians are descended from all of the Edain shouldn't there be at least a few blondies in the show? But for some reason every last Numenorian looks like they are Beorian when only some of them would look like that. BTW Aragorn looks pretty much exactly like a stereotypical member of the House of Beor except for his extreme height which comes from his Hador blood.
Yep. How on earth did they do that? Agendas I'm guessing. Money men and agendas. Awful rubbish show.
Let me know if you want to see my Numenoreans, they were repainted about 10 years back now, but they hold up ok!
I'ld be curious to see them
Yes!
DEW IT!
Of course. Sounds lovely.
Funny enough, I think I'll get them out this weekend. I counted them up last night, for Numenor alone I have 1 banner, 10 sword and shield, 22 spearmen and shield, 20 archers, 3 captains with shield, two captains on horseback, Elendil and Isildur both of whom are foot and mounted.
Macca I've been following your channel for a while now and I appreciate your Heresy content, but I'm happy you decided on a different topic, your thoughtful critique of the show and your insight on history, both real and fictional, is a pleasure to listen. Thank you!
Haven't you realised that Halbrand is supposed to be Sauron? Yeah, they have fucked up everything.
You mean the guy who pulled Galadriel from the sea twice and then a third time by diving in to rescue her from being pulled under.
@@erraticuk 1) It has been confirmed by people that have worked for the show (who have obviously remained anonymous) that he is indeed Sauron before the show was even released.
2) Everything they have leaked so far has been proven true.
3) If you paid attention you would see that this Sauron is trying to leave his past behind and "Galadriel" is pulling him kicking and screaming to Mordor.
4) The writers are creating an Aragorn character but sUbVeRsIoN he is actually the villain. Because they are talentless hacks.
@@user-zv2vm8bd8h isn't Sauron the white dressed Elb who shows up in EP.4 at the spot where the mage landed as fireball?
@@BimHennemann These creeps are apparently a cult that is searching for Sauron.
@@BimHennemann that's what they want you to think so you're gonna be even more surprised when Halbrand turns out to be Sauron.
You're talking about a production that didn't even hire professional fight choreographers for the fight scenes which look completely amateurish and unbelievable. Of course they didn't care about lore accuracy for Numenor, because they decided to throw away Tolkien's already written lore in the sheer hubris belief that they could write it better than Tolkien himself did! Galadriel is the height of arrogance because that's exactly the attitude of the writers. Amazon fired their Tolkien lore expert, Tom Shippey, after they decided they didn't care about making anything accurate. Just look at how they perverted the Silmarils by claiming that the power of the Silmarils fused with the power of a Balrog, a tree and a lightning bolt to form Mithril. UTTER RUBBISH perversion of Lore!!!
Haven't seen a nanosecond of this show so I'll have to take your word for it.
Lol imagine being a sea-faring people and only have an army of three ships which can roughly hold about 50 people each.
That was really interesting thanks for doing that.
I'd definitely be interested in more videos like this in the future.
I'm sure an entire series of at least two dozen videos could be made, "Rings of Power Doesn't Understand (fill in the blank)."
Elves
Dwarves
Galadriel
Armor
How Ships Work
Water
etc.
You forgot how rocks work 😂
I did do the Galadriel one last night.
@@TheOuterCircle Yeah, I just watched it earlier. Very informative.
Thank you. I really respect your opinion in this video. There are a lot of haters out there who are trying to upend the world of JRR Tolkien. And it is a fresh relief to hear somebody really sit and discuss with their audience what it is that makes them not appreciate the Amazon series when compared with the literary work. I really enjoyed listening to this. Thank you very much. Have a great one.
It's very easy to dislike an adaption, but for me, the video is cathartic, a release. I don't ask you to like the video, or subscribe, I don't fall into any talking points about race or gender, I'm focused like a laser of the issue of title itself and it's rare for me to talk about media on this channel, but LOTR is a franchise close to my heart, with a tabletop game I've played since the turn of the millennium.
Not planing on seeing the tv show but interesting to hear you talk about it
Subsribed. Not only because of the content of the video and how much I agreed wih you, but also because of the eloquence and knowledge you have shown in this video.
As for Halbrand beating up Numenoreans, I suspect that the only reason he was able to is because he's actually Sauron.
my condolences and sympathies for having to sit through this shitfest. I do of course mean the rings of prime not the original LotR
Rings of Prime understands nothing about Tolkien and doesn't care, in fact they are revelling in their destruction of classic english literature.
its just a serie and thats not gonna destroy anything
It's pathetic. They have ludicrous amounts of money and still completely fail to capture any of the scale of Tolkien's writings.
That’s because they don’t want to capture any of the writings. They hate Tolkien, and only want the recognition his name offers.
Rings of Power doesn’t understand any of its source material. It’s been such bad tv
Yeah someone needs to tell these people not ever fantasy series needs to be game of thrones. The themes of Tolkeins work were inherently designed to be timeless but noooooo.
OH LAWDY LAWDY LAWD, YA'LL HEAR OF THEN RANGZ?
At first I thought they were just condensing all of the interesting bits of the Second Age into one time period, but when they showed the Palantír being able to predict the future instead of just being a magic webcam, I knew that nothing in canon was safe.
They have very poorly hinted Giladriel's companion is actually Sauron. Which makes her look like an idiot because she's supposedly been hunting him for centuries. She has known of his mark since he killed her brother but never looked at a map and realized it's the southlands? They can't write to save themselves.
HUH?
When?
@@danielcrafter9349 he keeps making comments about people not being who they seem. The man wants desperately to get to forges.
There are also plot leaks, and so far they have been completely correct.
@@cultist1762 I remember when the posters came out when they showed Hal brand on the raft with Galadriel An mostly everone said “yeah that’s clearly Sauron”
But but Galadriel can change that bad boy Sauron with the power of girlboss.
@@balazsvarga1823 yeah her girl boss is going to make him go evil again 😂
The stupid thing here, is Amazon has the Appendixes! So if anything they should get the damn timeline right
You say that we have limitations in height for actors, but lord of the rings came out a quarter of a century ago, and they did just as fine with changing the heights of the characters. But great video! I enjoyed t he analysis!
They could even get away with simply casting all the Numenorians and Elves as 6 foot+ and show us some 5 foot tall regular men for comparison. 6 foot actors aren't exactly hard to find with the whole of the modern World to cast from.
Bless you Circle
That was the best analysis of ROP Numenor I've seen yet. Please do one on Galadriel. The way the show depicts her is everything she is not in the books. Actually, the whole show is just a train wreck, imo. Subbing to your channel now.
Best two word review yet-train wreck.
I would welcome more LotR-videos, if you want to do them.
Great video, Macca 🤘
There is a lot that Ring of Power doesn't undestand, from how to structure a story to how to write dialog. If only Lore issues were this show's only problem.
Yep, it's a disaster from end to end.
Halbrand is Sauron, that's why he could beat the crap out of a few Numenoreans and why he is such a gifted smithy. It's why he was surprised that Adar didn't recognize him. It's why the wyrm attacked and the people he was with disappeared. And it's why they're trying to set up a thing between him and Galadriel, in order to up the shock factor.
Rings of Power Doesn't Understand *EVERYTHING.*
Thank you Macca for adding a lot of important context to what's missing from that moving cultural vandalism that amazon is putting on.
I'm pretty sure the writers of the show made the queen of Numenor go "and who are you?" toward Elendil purely so she could come across as superior and condescending as a strong woman towards this guy and there was no actual thought going into her past possible report on this guy. In fact I'm willing to go as far as to guess they entirely glossed over it being so distracted by this one point they so desperately wanted to land 😂
or maybe she was just giving him a chance to introduce herself? naaaah gotta be a left wing femminist agenda at work!
LOL she didn't know Elendil was her cousin because Amazon's producers fired their Tolkien LORE EXPERT, Tom Shippey, before production of this abomination even finished!
even if we entertain the idea that the Queen is not related to Elendil how is that the Queen of a militar nation doesn't know the captains of her tiny fleet. I would understand if she doesn't know every captain of an armada of thousands.
@@Diogolindir She seems to know him well enough to entrust him her fleet that goes to ME. Not to mention giving him important tasks, right after "Who are you?" ^^
Ah yeah, I love this believable immersion they are creating * cough *
@@Diogolindir Exactly your point is the other inaccuracy in the show. Numenor is supposed to be the naval super power of Middle Earth. It should have hundreds if not thousands of ships. But the fact that in this show they can only afford to send out THREE boats to suppress the orcs in the southlands? PATHETHIC!
The way You Say "life" sounds a lot like "wife" to me haha! Great video
Great stuff!
amazon is giving gw a run for their money in the lore rape department
If you call a 7 year siege crushing Sauron then you must have been there during the 400 year siege of Angband. 😂
The 7 year siege of Barad Dur is at the Last Alliance, vs Ar-Pharazon simply rocking up to the fight or the first war of the Elves and Sauron where the Numenoreans ambushed him.
@@TheOuterCircle oh, damn. I was half asleep when I wrote that. I must have got them mixed up. 🤣
I've always thought Numenore as an artistic nod to Atlantis.
In this video you have demonstrated a fair amount of knowledge about our ancient history and what effects and implications it had on the world, not to mention knowledge about Tolkien's lore.
I'd be hard pressed to believe anybody involved in the show had but a smidgeon of that knowledge. And that's why they produced what they did.
Yay for nerds. I only watched the first two episodes of the show and decided it wasn't for me. But I do enjoy well informed and nicely articulated essays like yours quite a bit.
Thank you.
Would like to see a showcase of your numenorean army
They dont understand lord of the ring in its entierty, its just.more obvious for the numerorians.
I've read the books 20 years ago when I was in my early teens. I dont remember all the details but this video is great summary how I feel too. You got yourself a subscriber.
Great video. One small quibble:
11:52 - Sauron willingly surrendered because his plan was to corrupt the Numenoreans all along, but I will concede your point about the Numenorean army's strength is correct. Also, even without the One Ring, Sauron is a Maïar of the Ainur. He is a demigod at that point in history regardless of what he's wearing.
They should have just made an original show
They shouldn’t have made a show when they failed to grt the rights to the simirllian
Sigh... They understand them just fine. The entire point is to tear down pop cukture. It's all deliberate. It's part of demoralization. It's well coordinated, it happens across many fronts at once. Finance, culture, Academia, music etc.
Its exhausting explaining this stuff, because half the people call you crazy, the other half don't even give a shit.... But then they wonder why suicide rates are sky rocketing and everything sucks. Yeah, it's all an accident. All our beloved storied and folklore being shit on, all some major coincidence.
Right on. Im done arguing with people, they deserve this crap
Even aside from conspiracy shit we know what humanity is and does, as a whole. P A T H E T I C (them I mean, obviously)
Sad to say but this type of info cant be forced on people. It doesn't matter how correct you are, at the end of the day, you are trying to explain to people that they have been fooled. It doesn't matter the topic, when they sense that, the walls go up.
Find someone who shows some interest in these types of things and just drop clues or hints for them to pursue on their own. They have to feel like they figured this out for themselves.
Come on don't be stupid and self righteous, there's nothing dumber than thinking you've actually figured out some world spanning plot that "explains " everything, the world is a fairly shitty place most people are cunts and those in power are corrupt, like just accept that and stop convincing YOURSELF that you've solved something, you haven't. We all know how corrupt the world is, it's no big secret.
Dont waste your time or sanity trying to discuss this(or anything really) with avarage people, reality is 80-85% of people are not capable of changing their mind based on arguments/discussion, especially not online. Thats something you realize once you spent some years trying to do it. The avarage person is too conformist, follower-type and of avarage intelligent. Women especially so(men have more outliers).
If you want to change how large amounts of people think, you need influence and reach, and think more of it more like doing propoganda or leading a flock rather than thinking you can convince them with facts and logic. Thats the brutal truth. Thats also why modern western democracy too is largely a charade, more media-rule than it is rule of the people. Also a large reason for why western civilization is(and has for several decades) going downhill fast. Most people are followers, and those who are the leaders in our civilization now, i.e cultural elites, hollywood, media, politicians, social media tech giants, influencers etc. are leading them down a very bad maladaptive path. One can yell out all the facts and logic and sources one like to try battle it but it bounces off them like water on a goose.
You can find people who are intelligent enough and open minded enough and capable of seeing things from different sides and thus be open to discussion and changing their mind, but those people are so few it bears no impact on society unless they are someone with a lot of power or influence.
This and Galadriel video are awsome!!!! Thank you
Great video!
I prefer the Elves fighting at Helm's Deep to the Dunedain company. I like how in the waning of the world of the Third Age, there was this one final moment between elves and men that harkens back to a bygone age of greatness that we saw briefly in the prologue. Moreover, these Elves are there to help, not the men of Numenor descent, but the typical normal life span men who have probably never seen Elves in their lives, but heard of their legends and grace. There's something special about that, that I think the Dunedain and Elrond's two sons turning up couldn't offer.
The Grey Company came after the battle of helms deep and they accompanied Aragorn through the paths of the dead. This would have been instead of the Arwen scene. Btw the sword was reforged and given back to Aragorn at the Rivendell Council at the start of the quest. In the books it was actually Gandalf and the remaining Lords of the Eorlingas rallying previously scattered troops which showed up and saved Helms Deep. They weren't in time to get inside the fortress but were just in time for the charge outside.
I thought my apprehension was my own but im glad others feel the same way thank you for explaining everything so elegantly and giving the written story by Tolkien so much more respect then the show ever will (best to be read and not watched)
That Numenor army is literally older than I am.
I agree completely. The tale of Númenor is one of first benevolence and willingness to share. They come, as specifically mentioned in the works, as friends and helpers of the lesser Men of Middle-earth, and end up as conquistadors and exploiters. This is an evolution of centuries (if I remember correctly it takes about a millennium). When Ar-Pharazôn sails with his fleet and lands at Umbar, he humbles Sauron, who is brought in chains to Númenor. That is how powerful the Númenoreans are. I would say (to extrapolate on what you said) that they are a combination of Atlantis (Atalantë), the British Empire and the Carthaginians. Yes, Tolkien mentions specifically the dockyards of Rómenna. The point about Elendil son of Amandil is also important. It would have been like Queen Elizabeth I not knowing who the Earl of Essex was or King Charles III not recognising Liz Truss. These are people you met and played with during childhood, like George V, Kaiser Wilhelm II and Tsar Nicholas.
The show is pretty bad. And now imagine how bad a 40K or even Heresy show would be in the hands of producers and show runners like this. I don’t even want to think about it.
When the video game "Shadow of Mordor" cleaves more closely to the lore than the authorized series, you fucked up.
Right on. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you!
RoP doesnt understand much of anything...
Being a fan of Tolkien's writing since grade school I think it was during middle school and high school when I first read the Silmarilion and then the Lost tales. Rings of Power doesn't understand Middle Earth, it is not merely the Numenoreans they do not nor it seems will ever understand. I'm not a scholar of Middle Earth but I have well rounded understanding of each age, most of the people and their customs, technology, strengths and weaknesses. Having Elendil and Ilsidur play second fiddle to Galadriel and Miriel obscene, offensive and moronic. Galadriel was not a soldier nor the warrior that Elendil was; Rings of Power is full of woke nonsense. I was thought the Silmarilion would such a wonderful book to adapt to perhaps a tv series; but watching how Amazon has employed 'there' vision and 'there' agenda the show is too repulsive to tolerate. Elves were always spoken and referred to as "light, pale and fair"; Rings of Power uses, abuses race, feminism while undermining males/masculinity and even logic in a medieval times.
The elvish kings Elrond and Gil-Galad are not spared being sacrificed on the woke altar as they are made weak, feeble and incompetent. It is painful to me to think that Gil-Galad and Elendil were the ones valiantly fought Sauron; but this show is so demeaning to the point of being disrespectful. The Rings of Power should have focused on Elendil, Ilsidur, Gil-Galad and Sauron; not all these women who undermine, belittle and supplant all males/men.
Rings of Power shouldn't be thought of as being connected to Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit; it is show that cares more about virtue signaling that actually creating quality content. Rings of Power is a show that: race swaps, gender switches, nostalgia baiting, woke, anti men, anti masculinity, SJW, intersectional feminism, fan hating, r@cist, putrid trash.
who asked?
@@hardcorehistorybuff5230 Who asked what?
My man... I think you've drank a bit too much of the anti-SJW cool aid. You're sounding like the mirror image of the SJW Stereotype... Seeing ''agendas'' and wokeness in everything...
Well done mate, straight to the point.
My expectations were low but holy crap
loved the real world references with the romans and the hittites, great reference to compare with Tolkien's lore,
CORRECTION
Sauron surrendered willingly.
That was his plan.
He had the personal power to wipe out the whole fleet if he wanted to.
Sauron showed that by forming a mountain-size wave.
Even Tolkien speculated that in his letters.
Yup. The same scene also capsizes all the "Sauron's fair form was effeminate" fanart going around. The Numenoreans felt insecure around him because he looked like a super Numenorean.
'Rome going through 3rd century crisis & 747's flying overhead.'
Loved this mate! ROP is a sad attempt at the incredible lore of Tolkien. I recently dug out Children of Hurin, and the way it was written, the mannerisms of the text and speech, ROP has destroyed it thoroughly.
"The Elves are taking our jobs!!"
Pfft... miss me with that.
Yep, the scales are way off. Numenor's population at its height including its colonies was around 18m, ROP makes Armenelos look like a township, not a major Capital...this show is really bad!
Weirdly the show has this issue where the ARCHITECTURE is grand beyond belief, and then within that architecture they never show more than like 50 people even when theres supposed to be a great crowd theyre addressing. How they hit low-budget tv scale issues on a series they spent a BILLION DOLLARS on I'll never understand
Rop is simply not Tolkien
In other news, water is wet lol
What great essay.. thanks for this
Those things you mentioned in the beginning ARE valid criticisms of the show, it's just that the show is so bad that they are pretty irrelevant, like complaining about a broken toe when your entire arm has been lobbed off at the shoulder.
Yes, that is true.
I've been reviewing the series. And its really painful to watch. On its own standing, so ignoring the Tolkien stuff. The series is shit. The writing, acting, and aesthetics, is really bad.
Great assestment. Totally agree.
The funny thing is that sekksy shelob in Shadow of War was a pretty dumb idea, but most people shrugged and said "eh, whatever."
A whole show of dumb ideas is harder to get passed people.
Video games are a WAY harder medium for most people to experience than a show so can get away with way more.
I have something to say about the elves. Kiitti vitusti.
Actually portraying Miriel as having a dark-skin while her father is White (like all Numenoreans since they were northern Men) is incoherent with the Numenorean mentality : that means her father maried someone who obviously was not Numenorean (don't even need to wait to see if the queen consort lived a few centuries), who came from far away (far in the south, even outside of the map), while a good match would have been someone coming from the Numenorean nobility.
With Numenoreans deeply caring about keeping their long lifespan and whatnot, such a wedding would have been at least as scandalous as Edward VIII marrying an American divorcee in our timeline. They did take it very seriously : later in the Third Age when a Gondorian king married a non-Numenorean, it triggered a civil war upon his succession. Doing that move while Numenor was already divided between 2 factions would have been unthinkable.
Another example when by aiming at quotas, this is incoherent with the lore.
*Well we know the Atani mated with Easterlings during the First Age and that the Numenoreans of the line of Elros mated with the women of Harad post Eru's fury ~ But during the SA there shouldn't be swarthy, dark, brown or black Numenoreans for obvious reasons -- at least on the mainland ~*
very well done review. share this with Rings Of Power. I have read the silmarillion twice and you have done your research well because this is very accurate and it makes me want to read it again.
This "series" is not worthy of being discussed by bright minds like you - it only deserves to be ignored and forgotten.