Warhammer The Old World | Empire of Man vs High Elf Realms | BR#02
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- #theoldworld #warhammerfantasy #warhammertheoldworld
In the northern regions of Middenland lies a small outpost, almost unworthy of notice, save for its coaling industry. Where the peasants lumber the woods and stockpile coal for the Empires new Steam tanks to burn.
The High Elf, mysterious in their ways have on this evening launched a daring attack against the unsuspecting humans. With their swift army, composed of the finest elven steeds, fiercest eagles and commanded by a dragon mage of Ulthuan, they are able to setup in a forward position, ready to strike at the break of dawn. And not before the very last moments the local chapter master is able to muster their forces at the very base of their outpost.
Luckily for the humans, the fact that one of the Empires steam tanks is nearby, also means that a whole regiment of capable veteran state troopers are at the ready. Commanded by O. Neurath of the Ulfenwaldt, the inner circle knights and the rest of the engineering corps. under his command will meet their attackers at the fields of battle.
Join us as we fight the 'Battle at the Neuracht's Bastion', to see which one is left victorious!
📌 Also; check out Dr Luke Blaxills channel ( / @drblaxill ) for videos, with insight and flair, related to the hobby!
0:00 Introduction
3:04 High Elf Realms Army Presentation
5:42 Empire of Man Army Presentation
11:39 Game
1:47:15 Post-Game
📜 This game is 2000pt of Warhammer Fantasy The Old World.
Equipment:
🎥 Camera: Canon EOS M50 II
🎤 Microphone: Røde Wireless Go II
🎬 Editing software: Filmora 11
🎼 Music: Epidemic Sound - Zábava
We try to go thro as many rulemisstakes as possible from this battle report in podcast #06. We take your comments and try our best to get better. this is the pod: czcams.com/video/c3WrtbjZvc0/video.html
Decidedly the most Swedish Old World content out there.
Never change, guys.
Bedste hilsener fra den anden side af Øresund
Tack för hälsningen! Vi gör de bästa vi kan med vårat Svenska arv. :)
There is no generals here. Only jenerals 😄.
I love how you show the unit stats and spells as you progress through the list and such. Really an amazing improvement over other channels. You guys seem genuinely excited to play and it shows.
Thanks! Well yes we are a couple of old men that loves playing with our plastic figures 😅
"If a unit makes a failed charge it moves directly towards the target a distance equal to the result of the Charge roll, wheeling as required." (P.121) You should not add your M to the dice
Bonus Points for page ref! Thanks!
Unless you "fail" your charge because a unit fled from your charge, which case you DO go the full movement. It's technically not a failed charge.
Other things to keep in mind - you don't have to add swiftstride. So, in the example of the Demigryphs at the start, if you rolled poorly with your first 2d6 (picking highest), you may realize that there's no way to make the charge even with the swiftstride, so you can opt to not roll it and only move the highest of the 2d6 rolled on the charge. If you do choose to use swiftstride, you add the swiftstride die to your charge roll (so it would be highest of the 2d6, plus the swiftstride d6).
Also, your max charge is movement characteristic + 6 + 3" (if swiftstride). So your Demis at the start (you said were 17" away) were not actually able to charge in the first place, since their max charge range is 16" (7" + 6" + 3").
Awesome report though - seemed like a lovely game between two friends! :)
Great video guys, as always funny to hear Swedish English, Jeneral on a Sjeriot 🤣👍
We arnent afraid of brenging out the Swinglish when needed!
The Phoenix Guard Ceremonial Halberds are AP -1 and Armour Bane 1, so those two sixes versus the knights were -2 armour save and the other four wounds were -1 armour save!
Nice catch. Armour Bane is going to be my curse to remember. /André
@@MiscastTable they also don't get the fight in extra rank in the turn they charge. So many rules for Old World! It's a great system but early games its so easy to miss things.
Visuals are fantastic and you guys are very entertaining to watch! Love the content, keep it coming! :)
Glad to hear Mikael and many thanks for the kind words :) also; we'll definitively keep on keeping on!
18:45 - A yoosy yoosy target for the hellfire volligun. 😁 Big love from UK.
Thanks! Lots of love back from Sweden :)
The sky cutter is a heavy chariots so the impact hits are AP2 base.
Important to remember. Thank you!
Super format ce rapport de bataille! Merci beaucoup!
Greate betrap.
Failed charge you move only higher d6 not d6+M.
Big monster don't pivot fore free. They need to make wheel and they can only make one wheel so they have very limited movment.
You forget about +1 CR for Close order (Demigfyrth and crossbowman)
A model wielding a ceremonial halberd cannot make a supporting attack during a turning which it charged.
Don't forget about horses attacks (they are usually more deadly then riders :)
Thanks! Will have a breakdown of all the mistakes that was made and hopefulle get better and better at the rules. Your feedback is one of the resons we post our games online :)
Lumbering, P.195, in refrence to big monsters, specifically anything thats a behemoth, getting a free pivot, which they most certainly do in most cases
Perhaps due to their large size, their weight, or a combination of skittish draft animals and slow turning wheels, models with this rule are not especially manoeuvrable. To represent this, a Lumbering model is considered to be, and follows all of the rules for, a Close Order formation, even when included in your army as a single model.
However, even the largest single model enjoys slightly more manoeuvrability than a tightly formed regiment of many models. Therefore, after moving, unless it charged, marched or fled, a Lumbering model may pivot about its centre to change its facing by up to 90°.
Finally, a Lumbering model cannot join a unit or be joined by a character.
For future reference: If your dragon marched, it cannot pivot its 90 degrees at the end of the move.
Thanks! Cant promis it wount happen again but we will try and discuss this so it sticks.
@@MiscastTable Yep, I'm also making tons of mistakes in my games currently! Trying to get it all right is a task and a half.
It also can't march and breath fire. It's in the FAQ.
Favourite old world channel ! Keep up the good work boys!
You humble us 😅 but we're very glad to read the positive feedback, and more so excited to be getting some games of The Old World in.
I don't think that You need to declare if You are using BS of the Engineer or the re-roll before rolling artillery dice. If You don't roll Misfire You just can use his BS
Need to check. That makes a big differens.
Excellent rep. Thanks for the content
You cannot use breath weapon (shoot) after marching.
Good catch!
Loved this. Fantastic work guys
Once again, blowing up the old world with a quality bat rep. Great job guys, was a blast to watch.
Thank you! :)
Great match! Love watching you guys :)
Well played, thanks for sharing! Hoping Mr Steam Tank can have justice next game!
Love to see it. Thanks for showing the game off and building the excitement!
Agreee!
Brilliant work chaps, very watchable bat rep with some great armies, have subbed and will be checking back for more games soon! Couple of things to remember for future:
1) Close Order for combat resolution
2) Flee moves you use both dice plus Swiftstride if you have it, not just the highest - that's only fall back in good order
3) You only take Fear checks if the unit that causes Fear is a greater unit strength than your own so the Silver Helms wouldn't have needed to test against the Demigryphs in turn 2. You also test for both the ability to charge as well as the actual combat (again, only if unit strength is higher)
These are all super easy things to miss/confuse but hopefully that helps!
Very good comment.. We are going to try and discussing rules in more depth in our next podcast and also try to get all details correct as soon as possible.. we always strive for a perfect game with no rule misstakes.
@@MiscastTable that definitely comes across, it’s clear you both want to get the game right. It’s such a massive rulebook it becomes really easy to miss things or confuse one thing with another. Look forward to seeing the next games!
Thanks guys for this great old world battle ⚔️ love the cards and text you put on, it’s great to pause, read and understanding more what s going on
Thanks!
This is THEE best battle report of old world I’ve seen so far. Well done Lads 😊
Thanks!
Love it chaps. OLD WORLD!!!!!
Wizards that are in combat cannot be chosen to dispel. It’s always a good idea to try and charge enemy wizards to stop them from dispelling your spell.
Correct! Thanks
Lovely video - cant wait to watch more 😊
More will come:)
Great stuff, I really like how you throw in those cards for the spells, neat touch!
Our graphic dude (jonas) makes them realy cool looking! /André
The Missile State Troops had the high ground against the Eagle so they should have won the combat. My sympathy is for the Empire so I hope you forgive my comment. 😘
Its important to stand behind your army! You have our respect :)
Great job guys
thank you! :D
Beautifully painted armies, really enjoyed the batrep
Thank you :)
Great battle report, please keep them coming! The cannon is unit strength 3, so they do not cause panic if destroyed.
Thanks for finding that information. It's different from the older editions and something we need to keep in mind for future battle reports :)
Love this videos! Y’all’s production quality is the best! Got my first game in yesterday, playing beastmen, should have leaned into ambushers and need to make a chart and tokens for all the special rules lol!
Thanks for your kind words! We have a beasmen video down the pipe so it will come one soon :)
Nice start for your channel keep it up , nice data cards , i played same archmage and star Dragon this week and boy added the seed of rebirth for the 5+ regen and my opps chaos lord and dragon could only take a single wound off me before i took him down -- too tough
Thanks! Lords on mount is a serius threat.
Great game guys
Amazing work and amazing video to both of you also love the warscroll cards you show. Wish there was a PDF or something like that. Looking forward to seeing more high elf’s ❤
We dont know the rules about sharing cards etc with rules on them so we are carefull and avoid sharing to much :) mabay we will look into maning som cards some day…
@@MiscastTable understand 💕 can’t wait to see the next video 😊
Minute 25. The skycutter has toughness 4!
More! We love getting things right and more or less religh on viewer comments to evolv our game.
Lovely video and I LOVE how colourful your minis are. You've avoided the brown sea of over-washed minis in some other people's videos.
Thanks a lot for the friendly comment :) we're meeting up tonight to record the next video and I'll definitively let Måns know avout your feedback, it will lighten his day for certain :)
Cheers
Both of these lists look super fun!
I disagree.
The HE list was character/monster heavy (a Dragon and another flyer is more than enough, even for HElves), and the Empire list is just OTT with a Steam Tank and Volley gun.... sorry, but I don't think this is the edition I care to play as it is giving me 5th edition vibes. (I hated HEROhammer, and the rules now, with what you can field for 2,000pts, is not fun for me)
I'm happy for watching the batrep. :)
Thank you.
Both players play each other alot and they were trying to make some hard/evil lists for each army.
Great game! Was a bit rough seeing that weak rolling from the HE, specially vs those banners ;)
I love seeing Måns salty.. its the best of playing on video.. I can replay Måns tears any day! /André
love you guys
Love u to :)
GG !!!
Great channel! Think about putting your mage on the lothern sky cutter (360 degree vision) and a Prince on the dragon!
This sound good.. Im not sure If we want Måns knowing this. :p will take it up either behind the senes or in the next pod. /A
A fun watch for sure! The cam was getting pretty shaky at times and made me kinda motion sick, which i dont usually get @.@ Otherwise though keep up the great work!
Thanks Ysehporp for the feedback. The camera was looking a bit shakey, but we didnt notice up until the editing.
We'll try to improve for future videos.
Cheers!
enjoying this report high elf player feeling the bad luck
Never do when its Måns! /André
The silverhelms are looking great - are they a mix between the reaver and original silverhelm kit?
Keep up the great work guys! Cheers from Germany
Hi. Yes its mix of reavera and silver helms.
Characters mounted on Behemoths use the best armor save, you have to pick either the rider or the monster so it is not cumulative. They also also use the riders WS when being attacked so it is the wizards WS that is used.
You are correct! We thought it was the best WS that was used, but it is indeed the riders.
Great content guys. Can I ask if those battle statistics cards that you guys are showing in the video are available somewhere to download? Cheers! 🍻
Not currently. Its our Jonas who have created them… we might look into if sharing them is possible. GW has a produkt even tho not as nice, they might frown opon us having a product of cards for print….
Nice vid! Are you going to add 8th ed content in the future or straight ToW from now on ?
Well we could die tomorrow and no more videos will come out so I cant promise anything.. but as long as we breath we will probably have a 8th ed match here and there... :) we have 2 8th ed tournaments we are atending, one in March and one in April. /André
You might even need to make a panic test when the reavers are wiped out by the demigryphs.
If a uni with unit strenght 5 or more is destroyd within 6" a panic test need to be made. Wounder if thats the starting unit strenght or start of the round's units strenght.
Absolutely turbo agree with your statement at the end. State troops are just beyond useless. Take the required amount of core points in Knights and go to town on your special choices instead, those can actually do something.
Basic infantry is in a general rough spot.. At least as far Ive seen. /André
like your battle reports! However check pages 152 and 105, I believe the unit with the griffon banner gets up to 4 on static combat resolution if you don't do any damage, standard for the unit, BSB, 1 rank that counts as 2 due to griffon banner.
Heya radboud, Jonas here.
I see your point. The rules on pg.105 does seem to state that a regular infantry unit at most can claim a rank bonus of +2.
I kinda want to think that the Griffon standard doubles that bonus, because it's a rather expensive banner, at 50 pts and if it only gave at most +2 instead of +2*2, it would be rather lackluster.
As we interpret the rules, the unit could claim:
+1 standard bearer
+1 battle standard bearer
+4 rank bonus (2 max ranks * 2 from griffon)
----
+6 static CR
I'll definitively read up on it. And thanks for pointing it out. 👍😃
Hello Jonas, I absolutely agree with you on that the banner is expensive! First of all it is your game so if you wish to interpret the rule this way, more power to you! secondly, perhaps the effect of the banner would have been better served in your swordsman block. In my humble opinion using a banner in a small unit of 10 is a waste. Let me explain. In your deployment they were very close to your swordsmen, had they been a detachment they would have benefited from any character being in that unit for leadership and you could have saved points on your list. Personally I only take a musician in a small shooting unit as it increases the Ld when attempting to rally by 1 after fleeing. If the unit is a detachment you do not get this bonus. I to am an Empire player and have been for more than 20 years.
I can tell you are good friends and I really like to see you have your games together. Also the discussion at the end is nice to watch and more importantly teaches new players to understand the game better as it gives insight to the things you learned this battle.
Keep the battle reports coming! 😄👍
I wouldn't mind an equally mixed sound. Using headphones it's quite confusing when you turn your head while you're talking and it sounds like you are running around me :D
Yes I think it might be a good idea. Im not sure how the output looks from the mics. I thing its them how put sound on left/right.
what are your thoughts on the steam tank? I feel like it deals poor damage, but it has good resistance
Tough as nails. You want it up close and personal.. it takes so much energy to kill one so it will probably never die during a game.
You have made a beautiful battlereport but you only are allow to declare Counter Charges against Cavalry, Chariots and Mosters, not against Infantry.
Yeah, that's an oversight on my part. I'll let Måns know that we misplayed it, and ideally people reading the comments will also take notice.
Thanks for helping us out by finding our mistakes 😅👍
Keep em coming!
Where are the spell cards from? They look much better than the GW ones.
We made them.. or to be specific, Jonas makes them. :)
@@MiscastTable helluva job then - the graphics are spot on and seamless, much better than what GW cooked up :)
really cool report. I'm curious if there will be any ways to deal with the dragon meta going forward
Try having a unit with Monster Slayer rule…
@@MiscastTable Foreshadowing ^^
You do Not need to declare the master of ballistics choice before rolling. Just one wich warmachine you use it. You then roll the artillery dice, If you dont roll a missfire, feel free to use the improved bs!
Well i see that has been said already aswell 😆 i am late to the party
@@Jewus19 still; thanks for taking the time to write out the solution to the mistakes we made. 🙂without people telling us how the details are really meant to function, we would likely repeat the mistakes. And hopefully there are others out there that can read and learn from this.
cheers
If you had challenged the dragon with your unit champion and then your heros, you would have stopped it from getting more than +6 combat res, and it would have kept all your people alive. It might even have won combat the turn your general killed the skycutter.
Played a game with Vampire Counts and never before have I feelt it so importent do sacrife your champion to powerful enemies, to keep attacks and people alive. This is a very valid point and something every old world player should keep in mind!
1:09:00 Rider & Mount saves are not cumulative, you take the better save between them you don't add them together unless the mounts save comes from Armoured Hide (and in the case of the phoenix it does not)
Yepp clear as day, page 204. You pick the highest save, they dont stack. /André
I really like your BR most over most others on the Internet. Like the scandivanian way. Very fair and your english is excellent so easy to understand. Visuals are great, as others pointed out. Cannot imagine how much added work this is while you are playing a complex game over 2hrs. Speaking of games: I know you are quite involved in 8th. Edition and WAP. I know it's early ( just two games TOW played ) I have played three and I am not really good at Warhammer, but I found that Warhammer CE ( tournament version of 8th. ) and WAP are a bit less complex. Maybe it's the userunfriendly way rules are organized in the books. IdK, somehow, I expected something a little bit different after 4 years in the making and based on 30yrs plus of having published 8 Editions of WHFB.. what is your take. I really really want to like the TOW game but struggle a bit with it right now....Nevertheless I am looking forward to your ideas for Empire. Seems not many of the former typical builds will do any good in TOW...all the best from Germany
Tbh.. a game takes about 3-4 hours. Its some cutting fixing and removing rule checking and stuff. And yes it takes alot of time but the feedback we get form guys like yourself makes it worth it all!
Its a little bit early.. the OW game is designed from the same team thad made later lord of the rings as I understand but still.. It is warhammar fantasy and you feel it when you play! Is it perfekt, well no. Is it fun, Yes! We will definitly play more and find the some harder lists.
One fix I personaly would like is to rip out magic and have magic from WAP in OW.. then I think it would be even better.. linehammer thing is to early to tell.. time will tell but If you like warhammer fantasy I think you atleast will have fun with ow. /André
When you shot the helblaster at the dragon it's st 5 on t6 so why did you need 6s to wound?
this is ofcourse correct! st5 againts 6 is 5's to wound. thank you for observation sir.
I think the demis were not allowed to declare a charge in the first round: M7"+6"+3"(swiftstride)=16" possible charge range (p.c.r.) vs 17"(?) distance
Likewise the imps inf. were not allowed to charge the phoenix guard: M4+6=10" p.c.r. vs 11" distance. The prayer does not extend the p.c.r. does it? It only adds D3" on your chargemove?!
Also failed charges only move the distance on the dice not the full amount.
Good catch guys. We will discuss this and try to play as correct as possible.
Ancient men in an Old World
Old Man Sport in many ways 😅
Linehammer!
I will experiment we some linehammer at least. Thin there is some series power in some ocassions. /André
While I enjoyed the report a lot and appreciated the effort you put in, pls don’t complain about dice - especially complaining about missing out on a 5+ Warden Save. It really detracts from the report
Hi csblack01! well.. We agree and disagre.. first of yes you should not compain about dice it might make the game worse for you opponent. We also want to allow ourself to show our feelings, becouse we do want to win.. we discuss this more in podcast 06, please lissten and give a comment of our thoughts on this: czcams.com/video/c3WrtbjZvc0/video.html
At 1:12:00, the Empire should have won that engagement with the Eagle, as they had a musician, musicians give a +1 bonus in ties. (Pg 201)
They should have gotten this.. its the same in the system we come from. (8th) reread the rule, funny thing that gw specefies you get the bonus if the musican is in the front rank.
😎😎
You should be able to use Grapeshot with Steam tank. Steam Cannon use "cannon fire" rule and grapeshot is part of this rule.
Agreed! /André
is that grandmaster use breton green knight model? it looks similar
Yes its a 3d printed green knight that have been used for grandmaster.
Enhancement spells need to be in the front arc of the wizard. You can't cast on the Phoenix guard backwards on T2.
Good one. And yes, it was a missplay!
Hellblaster is S5, Skycutters is T4, it should be 3+ to wound.
Fury of Khaine lasts till the end of the turn.
The phoenix only causes fear.
Thanks. Things like this gives us an oppertunity to evolv, and that is what we want to do!
Can Wizardly dispel is the wizard is in combat?
No they cant. Thanks for the catch
I've got a very hidden rule for you that you missed. You can only declare counter charge against cav, monsters or chariots (p167)
Its both triu.. you cant declare against infantry and its easy to miss this. Thank you!
It really does not make a lot of sense in a lore way. Love the content though! Keep it up :) @@MiscastTable
Why not deploy artillery on hill with engineer support?
Next podcast we will have discussion on what went god/bad. Will ask this question to the panel. :)
I must say I am not sure I enjoy watching hero hammer in action. It has all the advantages. Speed, positioning, punch, resilience.
Even if its fighting fire with fire I think monster slayer rule will balance / scale down monsterlist like the HE list was.
@@MiscastTable what rule is that?
Minute 35. Reavers can´t charge if they fail the fear test.
Thank you! 🙏
Nooooo .... 1:18 yes you can re-roll the miscast with saphery special rule as its rerolls it NEVER happens -- very powerful bonus for elven mages
Thats just nasty powerful.
Lite avundsjuk att norra Sverige har både er och Squidmar, får hoppas vi här nere får något lika bra snart
10 island gaming håller ju till på östkusten och sen har ni the old world lives podden i söder också. Men för att få slå sigsjälv lite på bröstet så leverer Norrland rätt bra just nu :D
In 52 min, you cannot cast fury of kain cus you dont have fenix Guard in your line of sight (only character on foot or horse type mount have 360 vision, not on monster)
Correct. Will talk this throu.. think wizard on mounsterus cav och cav is the way to go :)
The Dragon should be a Large target (for the hellblaster), no?
Yes!
It should :)
😅Silver helms are heavy cav so only 4 needed for rank bonus
Not gotten used to all new unit types. Thanks!
If a single model unit marches, they cannot do that final free turn (only on normal move), and they also cannot flame (or do any other attacks, see FAQ for that one)
Thanks for poining this out and bonus points for tellling where to find this.
@@MiscastTable I have quite a few comments, but it was still fun game to watch so keep it up :) 💪💪💪
Too many missile units. A hellblaster and a cannon is plenty, the cannon is probably overkill with the steam tank on the field too. Not enough halberdiers to protect them, you needed one more unit of melees infantry for the Empire. Flagellants or greatswords are good picks for a line.
Many more games to play and experimiment we will! thanks for your input and ideas :)
24:50 skycutter is T4. Not 5. The avalanche of 3s wouldve destroyed it probably.
I see someone already pointed it Out 👍
Could have made a differensen! next time it will be played with T4.
Inner Knights are Toughness 3, not 4
Should be 3!
You forgot Close Order bonus for the Silver Helms in the first combat
Yes, that's a mistake on our part. Luckily I think we forgot it for the demigryph Knights as well. Kudos for finding and pointing it out. Helps us improve and think about it for future games.
I'm concerned about skaven being legacy :/
I know that GW feels that the games is thiers.. and in lots of that is the truth. But in the same way.. the gaming scene is own by us as players. In our group I have super hard seeing such a big and impactful race as the skaven leaving old world?! no way. Skaven armies will always be welcome in our community.
I think you are using the Griffon Standard wrong,
You are saying that you get double the rank bonus of each rank, that is correct, the problem is that the limitation on the max you can gain from your rank bonus is on the Rank bonus itself, not the number of ranks, so the Griffin standard basically means you can gain a rank bonus of +2 from having only a single rank behind the first in your infantry block
army wide is once per turn
Fallback and Pursuit is 2d6, plus swift stride if you want
why was the volley gun, str5, wounding the dragon on 6s? did it have some sort of minus 1 to wound? aren't they t6?
Fairly certain that this is not correct.
"When determining your combat result, a unit carrying the Griffon Standard can claim a Rank Bonus of +2 for each extra rank behind the first, rather than the usual +1"
"Depending upon its formation, and if it is wide enough, a unit can claim a Rank Bonus of +1 for each extra rank behind the first, up to the maximum determined by its troop type."
The maximum number of ranks it can claim a bonus for is determined by its type and that bonus is usually +1 but is upgraded to a +2 with the Griffon Standard.
@KfiB look at the table, it doesn't list number of ranks but the bonus itself, I wish it wasn't the case but it's listed as infantry claim a +2 bonus max
you can't counter charge vs infantry
True!
Pistoilers looks good to me. Pretty cheap with good rules..
Future will tell thier place. We need more games to get judge them fairly.
Impetuous seems to make them very difficult to use since their maximum charge distance is well over their maximum shooting range and if you are force to charge you are also denied your charge reaction.
Bit less whining about the dice would be nice. (And it is as always from the side winning...).
We are often emotionell and want to win so often we do get both happy angry and grumpy. We do try not to blame the dice we just suck at it 😅
Worst BR ever :( mistakes all times 😅
We got a loong list of mistakes in this. We have a podcast where we discuss everything that we found to be missplay: ep6 ’learning from our misstakes in the old world’
@@MiscastTable Ok 🤗
You need to forget the childish,, dumb 8th Ed though. You really need to drop that BS and forget to compare too much.. This is much more 6th Ed in the power levels.. Shit aren´t "nerfed" becasue they are not ridicolous anymore. Most stuff are toned down, for the better.. 8th Ed was a joke.
I love that we have returned to sanity.
This is going to be very hard for us to do.. we have been playing alot of 8th.. its impossible not to compare it to both WAP and 8th. Lots of us also like does high rolles that has a huge impact on the game, mostley becous we have gotten used to it.. hav sent so many wizard into chaos I lost count but its such a rush doing those dice rolls. I compare alot to 40k in på he beginning and there I felt so many dice rolles didnt matter so I stopped playing that game entirely. This isnt the case with OW we have gotten lots of rolls that do impactfull things. But im saying sorry in advance, we will continue at least 10 more games to compare to both WAP and 8th.. becouse we played them for a long time..
The amount of complaining about dice makes it very hard to watch.
We will think about it. Agree that dice complaints is valid but not all the time!