Take A Lab Tour Of This Solid-State Cooling Tech
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- During CES 2023 Gordon got a demo of AirJet - a potentially revolutionary solid state active cooling system for tech like laptops. In this video Gordon gets a tour of the labs at Frore Systems and follows up with Seshu Madhavapeddy, the Founder and CEO, about some of the biggest questions people had concerning this technology. He also gets to check out how the AirJet is tested for things like dust and reliability.
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#ces2023 #airjet #cooling
00:00 - Intro
00:21 - How AirJet Works
03:00 - Dust Protection
05:44 - AirJet vs Fans
07:19 - Reliability Testing
09:08 - Is This Solid State?
10:14 - Shape Explanation
11:59 - Schlieren Imaging Demo
13:59 - What Is Jet Impingement?
15:05 - Heat Testing
16:09 - The Business Case
17:25 - Laptop Demos
25:11 - Upcoming Products - Věda a technologie
As long as they don't become an exclusive for 1 specific company... this will be revolutionary for laptops phones and anything that uses low power.
Yes...please God keep Apple out of this.
@@jeffsmith6659 they already bought 100% of the first batch 😂
Apple will buy them if it scales
I want one in my steam deck
If so, where can we invest -_-
Glad to see PCWorld did a deeper dive interview with AirJet, as IF it takes off, it will likely revolutionize laptops, tablets, and maybe even some phones. Also glad to see AirJet is actually doing product tests to make sure they are commercially viable, and arent just some concept product.
I think the Concept for sure is more beneficial in small Formfactor Products but i also think this should also be very useable to built into normal PCs. It seems they are very small so thats very beneficial regardless. When i look on those Massiv SSD Coolers for example…
I dont know enough about this new Tech to know if its useable directly on an SSD but just in Generell… I think it could be useable and not that much expensive compared to a massiv Cooler with Fan as well.
@@flimermithrandir In a desktop PC you have plenty of space for traditional cooling solutions, there's no world in which it makes sense to implement this technology there. Unless maybe you're doing a microATX build in a super super small form factor case.
@@ForeverMasterless You never saw (for Example) the GP-AG70S1TB-P right? Try to use that on an Mainboard where the first Slot is under the CPU Cooler and the second one is under the GPU. So you may be able to use it on the 3rd one which is only an 2x4 M.2 (on my MB at least). Great Idea.
Yes you can just Watercool your PC and just not have that Issue (maybe) but still... Not everyone will do or want to do that.
Just because you dont use it doesnt mean there is "absolutely no use" for it. There is plenty, trust me.
@@ForeverMasterless They can use this in GPU. So the GPU thickness will be reduced. We can add think as a CPU cooler too. For PC case definetely fans are important but we can implemet these things as CPU & GPU cooler.
@@ForeverMasterless "there's no world in which it makes sense to implement this technology there" instead of a massive heatsink under your gpu for a 5.0 M.2 drive which wouldn't allow you to install the gpu due to heatsink, you could instead use an airjet. kindly take your comment down mate. ignorance like that shouldn't be spread.
Filmer also understood the assignment.
Selfishly, I would love to see this tech used in future handhelds, like the potential Steam Deck 2 and Switch 2, as well.
Zero chance Switch 2 would get this, they have to make Tens of millions of those in next year or the year after the desing is already finished and its the same story for Steam deck 2
first use i imagined for them. a silent handheld that can dissipate 15-20watts would perfect use of it
Yes to the steam deck. I would pay for a premium model with this tech, like with the etched screen
@@Deadlines-X what does that have to do with whether or not they would use airjet?
@@Deadlines-X Yeah. Switch two is finished when it comes to the Designs. Its impossible for the first Batch for sure. Maybe for the next adjusted Switch 2 hat comes after it. (There are always small changes they make we often dont even know about like the PS5 that now comes with N6 Node instead of N7)
I just hope their tech is available for as many different categories as possible. This shows some real promise.
I appreciate Gordon asking good questions, sometimes things are to good to be true. It looks something true, look forward to products having them.
It seems it may well be. At CES he said it takes one watt to run to remove 5 watts. That’s a lot more than a fan. If Apple were to put this in a MBP for example, it would decrease the battery life by about 20% under load. PC laptops already have horrendous performance on battery power and Apple would be unlikely to take that cut. So I don’t think industry is going to be as creative with it as they could be, especially given how uncreative they are so far. E.g Apple is the only ones doing asymmetric fan blades, but won’t use vapour chambers. And the reverse for PC. I think industry is gonna keep moving towards fanless thin and lights and big desktop replacement even with this technology and no good combination of the two. Otherwise we might have seen it already even with fans.
@@Freshbott2 It doesn't matter if it impacts battery life in a laptop as most people keep their laptop plugged in when it's under load because they're usually at a desk working in something for long periods.
@@freddybell8328 I 100% agree but laptop makers can’t seem to figure that out. I’d like a MacBook or Pc with the build of a MacBook with a huge cooling system. I don’t need 22 hours of battery. I wants chip that doesn’t throttle and I want it to be quiet. They could do it now with fans but they won’t. Most people are the same. They won’t do it.
@@Freshbott2 hopefully we can bank on either refinement of the air jet tech, or battery tech. Ideally, both.
As an engineer, it felt so good as he explained his product. He was so knowledgeable and humble, good job and I would love to buy my next laptop with AirJet!!! Thanks Gordon for making this deep dive!
except for the dust proof part :D lol
Absolutely! The whole "solid state" thing could have been a trick question for more marketing-minded folks, but he gave a clear and well-reasoned explaination with examples and all. The humility, subject mastery and ability to summarize hard concepts that this guy posesses are admirable. The product seems great and I can't wait to see it reach general availability as an engineer myself.
I think whole new dedicated motherboards may be necessary because the device is, I assume, a fixed dimension, meaning the chip ideally has to be placed precisely so the cooler sits at the edge of the device where the exhaust port will be, unless the design allows for exhaust ducting. Obviously I don't know if it does or not, I imagine that could negatively impact the exhaust port design parameters. However, they did show the Galaxy book with it during the Schlieren test, so..
But yes, very interesting stuff and well explained.
@@kmputertechsupplies2374 100% approve with you. Normal fan already have mesh. His mesh isnt special 😂 its the same thing.
Yes it move air, yes its different, but i dont really see a futur for this type of products in my opinion.
he is an engineer from IIT Kharagpur
Excellent video, I enjoyed the lab tour and explanations by Seshu. The test with laptop retrofit was interesting. It would be great if AirJets were made available for aftermarket/DIY use at some point. I could see them being used for cooling SBCs, modding laptops (especially more repair-friendly ones like Framework's), ultra low-power mini PCs, handheld consoles/PCs (e.g. SteamDeck), and smaller computer components (like nvme SSDs, as mentioned in the video).
Also, that noise comparison sample isn't just quieter but also has a much more pleasant sound signature (I'm not a fan of centrifugal fans/blowers in laptops). Very interested in seeing this hit the market.
Well said. I think making it available as an aftermarket device while trying to break into the OEM market would help it get traction. Just as SSD's were an interesting but expensive form of fast storage back in the day vs 9000+rpm HDD's (my little Corsair 60gb SSD set me back a lot when purchased mid 2000's) and cheap mass storage, the benefits became clear observing those in the DIY/performance space and OEMs eventually followed. It was an important building-block in making thin laptops and portable devices.
They shouldn't enter the after market just because they'll lose money and deals from bigger brands. Its kinda stupid to create something significant that has true potential in the near future and just release it into the wild and lose all potential deals and profits. Nobody in this day will create something and give it away to charity that is the after market. With release it into the after market, of course somebody is going to recreate it, work around the patent or even just replicate it entire and sell it, then the company should hire lawyers, firms to fight those people and guess what? The company is wasting money on lawyers and ends up less money for say R&D, Market outreach etc etc. Maybe in the far future where these things are popular and the company earns/has earned money their innovation . It can be released into the after market. But going into the after market now would be a big mistake in the business sense of things
this is probably the most interesting cooling technology, that I'm looking forward to seeing being implemented broadly in the tech world.
I think it may be the most intriguing tech overall that may shift every dynamic in tech. It may be a dream.
That is whisper-quiet. I'd be really interested to see what kind of exotic cooling you could do with this. And I'm also curious what kind upper limit we have on how many watts you can dissipate
To me this would be really great for Led backlights in televisions. Or even OLED. Imagine an OLED having the cooling capacity of a BVM without the huge increase in form factor. This technology is insanely cool.
I also have two any beam MEMS laser projectors. They are already fanless and low Watt, but if you could put one of these inside you could potentially get a much Brighter Image out of a Pico projector like that. I wish this company nothing but success
Yea I see LED/LCD going the way of the dodo long before these make it into the wider consumer space like HDTVs.
All display manufacturers have dramatically scaled back or just plain cut their LCD production facilities at this point, so it's likely that some variant of OLED or ELQD (electroluminescent quantum dot) will be the main display techs going forward.
@@mnomadvfxQD EL is definitely the next big thing.
I wish this company failure due to a better product and for lots of competition, that would be great
Tiny and exotic use cases is really what this would be best at. Unless it happens to be ridiculously cheap to produce, you're not going to see dozens of these inside of a larger device like an OLED tv. I mean, I suppose it's possible, but it sure as hell wouldn't be cheap. A fan will always be the more effective, economical approach at that size.
Better cooling for small devices, however, now that's a serious market. If the Steam Deck had access to this kind of cooling during development, it would've been the natural choice.
Personally though? I would LOVE to see these used in some fricken CAMERAS. I say this as I'm glaring at my Canon camera that overheats like a little toaster and shuts down after 20min of recording. For professional cameras, every gram counts. So they're usually passively cooled. But they're also designed to be able to survive the weather and the outdoors. So they're sealed off with thick plastic from all sides and there's nowhere for the heat to go. A fan would be a ridiculous addition, because it would be chonky as hell. But the frore air jet thing looks like the perfect size for a professional camera. If they were ever available in a non-OEM format, I'd wanna buy one and find a way to frankenstein it into my R5.
@@user9267 I don't think you need the company to fail to achieve healthy competition. Actually, taking a player out of the market would probably be bad for the competitive market.
slight mistake around 12:05 in that schlieren umaging is used to visualize air currents, not heat flow in particular. it can visualize hot air because it works with differences in air density (specifically refractive index, which can change based on density) but also works with any other type of moving gas, including room temperature
I feel like there's a lot of bullshitting attempts in this video. "It's not air moving device, it's heat removing device that uses air", "it's not a fan", well, yeah, fan combined with a radiator is also heat removing device that uses air. It's an interesting technology but why do they push this marketing gazlighting so hard?
He does mention air density while explaining it, did you skip it?
@@Poluact Definitely, there is a lot of marketing bs going on, but he hasn't really said anything wrong.
@@gaminallthytime I mean. I feel like there's something shifty when people slap all kind of buzzwords on their product. From what I got the key difference is that it moves air in very high speed pulses which removes heat faster due to this jet impingement effect and that's basically it. Well just tell me so. It's already good enough that your new tech is slim and silent, why do you try to sell me all this "chip" bs. Isn't your product good enough without it?
Btw, there're 2 things left not covered in this interview: 1) energy efficiency. How much energy it consumes comparing to fans?; 2) he stated multiple times that it's designed for up to 40W (iirc) chips - what about more? I guess it's limited in how much heat it can remove (not enough of a surface area maybe?).
@@gaminallthytime "but he hasn't said anything wrong" is a tenant of most advertising, not to mention cons. I'm not saying this is a con, but sophistry around defining as being fundamentally different from a fan doesn't help. It's a heat removal device that seems to occupy both a smaller volume and a thinner profile than fans do. It would be worthwhile just as an alternative to fans. I didn't see comparisons in power consumption of their device vs fans doing the same job, so I'm tempted to believe that it's not favorable, ergo in situations where space and noise isn't a factor, fans are probably superior.
I hope that instead of including this in devices only, they will also consider letting us buy this without a device attached to it. So many scenarios where this could be useful.
So glad you guys followed up on this. Super interesting. Gordon really asked all the right questions.
I was really looking forward to this follow up. Thank you. Can't wait to see these out in the wild.
One thing I was missing (maybe I didn't hear it) was power efficiency. Their own data says this technique needs some power to work. And it doesn't look like it's not a low amount.
Battery life is crucially important to mobile devices and I would like to see data that shows that it works well for that.
I seem they talked about it in previous video during CES.
Also any power it requires would out more heat into the system. I'm quite worried on the demo they showed of the laptop and closing the intakes. If you force negative pressure into the laptop that will also cause dust buildup and well as heatbuilding in the closed chassis
@@Joao_Weiand Who knows.
I don't think this itself will be a problem but we don't have enough data to come to a conclusion.
Really cool innovation. Look forward to see it used in many devices. Good job frore 😎
they're probably still waiting on patents and stuff, but I'm so excited to see a proper technical deep-dive into how this physically works and gets air moving. the engineering intrigues me.
Not an issue for most work environments, but I'd like to hear how this handles micro-droplets of salt water ("salt air") like are found in coastal environment. I assume that's less than the PM1 size (
This is a great innovation. I'd like to see this readily available to end users in shops so I can upgrade the heatsink and fan in my desktop PC and other devices to reduce noise, when cooling my CPU or even my GPU as these devices scale up in size and capability.
I really like this guy. He explains things so well. You can tell he's a super smart guy, but he has a knack for explaining things simply.
His articulation is top notch. Millions have come and gone and we have a guy here who has just redefined cooling in one fell swoop!
Smart Dr here indeed.
Coming out this year, that is really amazing. True innovation just around the corner.
Its called piezoelectric, they are just using newer process nodes to shrink down the electronics but it is an old tech and doesn't outperform any current solutions being used. That said, their product is intresting for use in handhelds, cameras (for silence cooling while recording), and soem fast chargers. Check out the Oneplus concept phone, it usues the same technology as waterpump.
The testing they're doing with this is extreme, really hope this comes to the consumer market soon
Temperature Humidity Bias, Temperature Cycling and Lifetime Testing are standard JEDEC requirements for silicon devices...see JEDEC. the dust one is unique and is a nice touch for their targeted OEM customer base
Imagine this scaling to 200-300 W for a 1-2 slot form factor and lets say 30db noise output .... it would be insane . No more bulky 3,5-4 slot GPUs , much higher reliability than fans .
But even as it stands this 1st gen product will revolutionize low power devices , also kuddos to Dr.Madhavapeddy , excellent presentation !
Oh hell yes. I was waiting for more information about this product. Even better that Gordon is providing it to us. Awesome.
Awesome invention! Thanks for the review!
This tech has fascinated me since CES
It's really awesome that this follow up video from the CES one has been made, thanks PCWorld and Frore Systems, also hoping this tech will be widely adopted and not closed to everyone but one brand at some point because of an exclusivity deal. This + a new tech for batteries could make for incredible devices.
An exclusive deal isn’t bad if it saves the technology from failing to commercialize. The cost of borrowing is high right now, so even solid new technologies are unable to pay employee salaries unless they can get a big partner like Apple. Meanwhile if Apple were to get exclusive use, I think that the MEMS space will turn their attention to the problem and possibly invent even better versions. Just look at what happened in solar or LEDs or microchips. Fairchild, Intel etc do not have exclusive use of a lot of their past inventions.
😂
Km❤m😅
Considering the height, combined with thin vapor chambers to increase the surface area, something like six Airjet Pro should be easily possible even in laptops and 56w of near silent cooling would be quite something. And with some creativity, some crazy results and products could be realized, I believe.
But 6 jets vs 1 fan..how do they compare in failure rate? Plus how easy will them be to replace? Needing a vapor chamber and 6 jets to replace 2 fans and a copper radiator feels inefficient to me. Now if you tell me you can manage 15w cpus with 1 jet in 1/3 of the space well..now we're talking
@@enricod.7198 6 jets vs 1 fan... if 1 airjet fails out of 6 you're out what? 16% of total cooling capacity? if 1 fan fails out of 1... yeah, I think it kinda goes both ways.
Either way I wouldn't be surprised if the cost became prohibitive when it comes to packing that many inside a single device and also power consumption might become a concern. Hopefully this turns out to be as good as they say it is
I think for now they only produce one or two sizes, hence why they need to combine multiple ones. I think i remember in the first video they talked about how they could create single bigger ones.
Moving air is not silent. It will sound like a storm, and you want 6 of them?
@@fungames24 they're basically silent
Thank you, been looking on the internet non stop for this, thank you so much...
Hopefully we get these on mobile devices soon!
I wish these guys all of the luck in the world. Seeing a CPU cooler with a number of heat pipes and a few of these attached would be pretty cool, pun intended.
Take my money!!! I cant put my finger on how, but love the explanations. smooth transitions between presentations.
Very glad you got this access to share. Very exciting technology.
Talk to Valve about a Steam Deck 2, would be great to see in something like that. I hope this tech catches on!
Still really interesting stuff & I appreciate Seshu taking the time to better explain things. I understood jet impingement and Laminar flow during the CES video but the one thing I couldn't wrap my head around was how exactly this is supposed to scale. Now that I know they are doing full real world testing procedures, have a fab in Taiwan, and they're using mature manufacturing processes from other established industries I actually feel a lot more confident in the product. I saw who some of their investors are and the list is impressive, including Qualcomm. So I'm actually really looking forward to whenever they IPO so I can invest too. I genuinely believe they have a hit here & with enough time and gains in small form factor they could legitimately scale up too. I can easily foresee a world where air coolers lose the fans and replace the fin stacks with airjets.
the average investor will not get to capitalize on Frore because of joint venture with Qualcomm and Intel. your best bet would be to invest in wafer producers because those guys have capacity already booked till 2026 and Frore is going to consume even more due to volume scaling directly correlated to wafer area.
The original AirJet video made me acquainted with your channel.
It's great to see it in greater detail.
Exciting tech ❄️
Amazing! I can't wait for this being in Ultrabooks and Gaming Laptops.
As a mod of r/htpc, we'd love to see this is mini pc/nuc type devices where power is low and noise is detrimental to the HT experience. I have no doubt our users would be willing to pay a small % premium for it. I think 5% would be reasonable.
Considering that M.2 drives are often space constrained it would be interesting to see a M.2 heatsink using this tech.
This. Way better than use 4 of them to replace 1 fan which is moronic and only adds more points of failure for the sake of better noise
@@enricod.7198 More points of failure - true, but you also get some redundancy, while a single fan failing usually breaks the whole cooling system. This also seems to be relatively new tech, meaning the lifespan (or the performance) is likely to increase.
Also, according to this vid (which is obviously biased, but I didn't look up other data) they have significantly better performance than traditional fans of similar size. And lower noise isn't pointless, since gaming laptops and handhelds can get pretty loud.
@@enricod.7198 Or they could scale up the design
Oh, my; I would love to pay extra for a performance laptop that always stays silent
As I see more demos, I am becoming more fascinated for this tech ....
What about energy consumption? Would be good to see a comparative chart of the impact it will have, not only on the performance of the process but on the battery life.
Amazing technology. Thank you Gordon.
Would be very interesting seeing this technology implemented in a phone. May allow for water-resistant phones with active cooling
I'm really fascinated by this system and look forward to seeing it scale up. In the mean time, I'm jazzed to see some laptops with this cooling device!
Thanks for covering this ! Really enjoyed the physics involved.
Its called piezoelectric, they are just using newer process nodes to shrink down the electronics. Check out the Oneplus concept phone, it usues the same technology as waterpump.
I’m really excited to see this get to 100W+ of cooling in future generations. I think seeing this on a desktop CPU would be super cool
With just a bit of mental 3D CAD work I can already imagine confgurations leveraging multiple heatpipe/vapor chambers for platforms to attach these AirJet devices to.
As long as you can leverage enough space to dissipate the heat from the processors with a flat vapor chamber you can just line up potentially 8-12 of those AirJet Pro fro 80-120W of cooling using only their first gen tech.
That being said the cooling does not come for free - each Mini device uses 1W and the Pro devices use 2W, so you will end up adding a serious power budget just for cooling alone unless they can increase the power/performance ratio dramatically.
I'd say to cover 300W range GPUs reasonably they will need a minimum 3x improvement in performance per area, with hopefully a similar level of reduction in power drain per W dissipated.
Each of these things probably cost close to ~100 bucks due to being fabricated in silicon. A 100W cooler with these things would literally cost a thousand dollars.
I think for desktops it would still be more cost-effective to just have a hunk of aluminum with a fan strapped to it, at least for a while
@User Yeah, the fans will only get cheaper from here. This tech is still very useful for things like either peltier coolers for IR sensors and low TDP chips in thin and light devices such as phones and tablets.
@@Bramble20322 Silicon isn't expensive. The tools and labour to manufacture silicone into nanometer scale are. He says that it's obviously more expensive that a laptop fan (which are in the $5-10 range in bulk) but not so expensive it doesn't make sense. If I were to ballpark the cost of each individual 'Mini' or 'Pro' I would guess $30. That's still $90 in fans when using 3 which is a very significant cost for a laptop that needs to compete. I can't see there being a $300 fan cost in any laptop, even in the premium categories.
I can't wait to see what this stuff can add to VRM/chipset cooling. Gaming mobos and everything all the way down to smart watches stand to benefit if it gains traction.
I am impressed with the engineering discussion being covered by PCWorld. This is very interesting content for us engineers out there.
thanks for letting us come along on this one very exciting stuff
Very good video that clears up many questions I had and saw in the comments from the previous video. They also addressed the reliability and longevity concerns.
Some things that I still want to know are how well this scales up as there are processors with higher TDPs(35-40W). If this can handle the thermal output when a processor suddenly boosts up spitting out a lot of heat with it. Also is there any sort of manual control similar to what fans provide? What voltages do these run at? I imagine having them constantly running would draw power when the laptop is idling. Can they eliminate the need for metal fins since they sit directly on the chip hence making them lighter.
Is there a model in the works for cooling GPU which can go upto higher wattages?
IIRC from the CES video, the cooling power can be controlled just like a regular PWM fan. And I suppose you can always cut the power of say 2 out of 3 AirJets in a product, if you only need one in idle. Regarding the voltage, I don't know, but power is more important anyway (I guess that's what you meant). I think they draw 1W of power to provide 5W of cooling.
Couldn't found anything about power consumption of those airjets. Are they more energy-efficient comparing to a fan, when dissipating the same amount of heat? I'm sure there's some kind of sweet spot between those parameters and it would be really interesting to know what that is.
This answered a lot of my questions. Very eager to see the future of the tech.
Thanks a lot for that amazing interview this is really exciting can't wait to see that on real products !
They could be the sole provider of cooling for other equipment like Enterprise Class Routers and Switches. Streaming devices like Roku, Amazon Fire, Google TV, and even in High End TVs themselves. The possibilities are endless for devices that need cooling but fans are too bulky to implement.
This active cooling solution shows great promise. The advantages over using a fan will be greatly determined by cost.
The advantages are more about form factor and noise vs cooling performance.
As the exec guy points out this allows thin and light laptop OEMs to push perf into a much higher range without dramatically increasing height/weight or noise, not to mention the benefits to dust management and inlet placement.
@@mnomadvfx Apple Silicon says we can have it all;
Form factor - MacBook Air/iPad Pro,
Noise - No fan,
Cooling - Passive and Fanless
Past 3nm how much active cooling will be needed apart from maybe discrete GPUs?
@@EnochGitongaKimathiAlways a lot. Passive devices are always existed, furthermore the Apple SoC need active cooling too in the higher models. The process node will do any difference, a 100W 1nm cpu will consume the same of 100W 100nm cpu.
@@IcaniCorrono we can agree that a chip on 1nm doesn't need to consume 100W to give the same performance of a chip built on 5nm consuming 100W, it might've only need 30W. Apple M1 requires active cooling in order to offer more performance. Apple M5 might not need active cooling even forcing even the Pro or Max versions. Performance efficiency is the key target for mobility and portability.
I feel that though this active cooling solution is phenomenal it will be shortlived owing to the same technology that improves it. As we move from one advanced process node to another even more advanced node for manufacturing semiconductors the efficiency improves. As this active cooling solution becomes better so will the chips it aims to cool.
@@EnochGitongaKimathi This is not the way the technology progress is moving. New process nodes have tipically (not always) better performance/watt and tipically (not always) allow to higher power consumption.
Just look at the trend, have you never see a new chip consume less than the previous one? Not really, because the point is the power target, the design is done in order to allow the maximum performance in the same, or more, allowed power budged. You want to increase the computational power not to stabilize it, otherwise now we only had an 4004 just more efficient. In the last year the common power budged is increased a lot, a 300+ W cpu and 600W gpu is just a proof, and the 600W gpu is build up on the newest tsmc 4n (a 5n reveistied) process node. Again, improvment, in the process node, does not mean only better perf/watt but also higher power budget in the die. Whereas, improvment in the product does not mean only lower consuption but also better performance, required for the new fancy things the users want do.
thank you so much for sharing this method with !
Such an awesome technology. I was impressed when I saw CES coverage and I continue to be impressed. It is relatively easy to imagine it working wonders for low wattage devices. It will be interesting to see it's potential to scale up (for example to 35W or 45W).
Sounds like a better alternative for super hot PCI 5 SSD than for Intel CPU. Very compact and can improve sustained io loads
Looks like they took the piezoelectric fan technology and built an all in one device that functions like a heatsink/radiator and fan but at a much smaller scale.
Neat, was hoping on a follow up about this. Interested to see where this goes, I'll be keeping my eye out.
Omg wow sir. Thanks a lot for this video. This thing is just next level.
Pretty impressive, and not bought up yet by Intel or Apple. Laptops, tablets are a no-brainer but so is everything around it like NVME and Handhelds, Sony Cameras that are known for overheating.
Yet. Apple is keen when it comes to waiting until something is ripe enough. That's why they waited with stuff Android had for YEARS.
@@fusseldieb Not wrong, their devices barely turn-on the fan since M1 too
Very cool tech, MEMS will always be cool to me. I do wonder if this could benefit from a more complex heat spreader/cold plate. The image provided looks like an empty copper can, skiving(cutting micro fins in the cold plate like a water cooler) would really help with the overall surface area and (potentially) the cooling capacity.
It might have those types of micro fins/channels. I get the impression that they provided a simplified image to protect proprietary info as well as just for ease of explanation or to allow for further changes in designs given early stage of the product. Agree on MEMS being cool (in this case literally 😁).
@ZivZulander Agreed. I've never been a fan of security by obscurity though.
@@SuperCloneRanger The moment it is out in products it'll get torn down, this isn't 'security by obscurity', it's just 'the product isn't released yet' lol
I think it was intentionally made to be a very simplified diagram. They didn't show any actual cross sections or internals of the airjet product. They may very well have such features, just not shown in marketing materials.
@@shivaargula4735 There is a data sheet on the frore systems website with a cross section with schlieren that shows a flat cold plate. It was just a notion i had when i watched the vid, i dont know enough about the fluid dynamics to say for sure they are very thin but the static pressure is there to add some geometry via skiving or possibly etched into the copper cold plate
Awesome tech, cant wait tk see this in the future laptops and tablets
glad we got to see a laptop demo, these will revolutionize the 28w and below industry.
What I would love to know is can they be increased in size without compromising the quality of the product? Would be interesting to see how they are attached to gpus someday, would they just attach 8 or just create one big one for a gpu.
Probably not one big chip, but rather multiple chips in a singular device using multiple heatpipes with flattened ends to feed it.
The potential thiccness reduction to gfx cards is significant to be sure, especially if they utilise both sides of the PCB for space to cool with.
Gpus going up to 700w very soon
this is going to be tough, can't wait to see what happens. if it turns out possitive am getting my hands on it asap
Coolers will use more power then gpu. "AirJet Pro removes 10.5 Watts of heat while consuming 1.75 Watts" That means best case 400w GPU will use 65 wats just for cooling... Great tech. Btw typical fan uses max 2 wats
@@golimonkey no way bro where did you get this info? Welp i knew it was to good to be true
I love their technology. I hope companies use it to improve their products soon. I can see companies like Canon using this for the EOS R5. I always wondered if heat could be recycled within the device and be converted back to electricity. That would be a nice way to dissipate heat and make it useful as I feel as if all of that heat is potential energy going to waste.
Precisely, I understand why he's trying to pitch it to laptops and ultraslims. It wont out compete any of current technologies being used or a vaporchamber and fins but still wont beat current value per performance. Cameras, handheld etc... are his market. Silent cooling while recording 8K but mind you others are now using the same piezoelectric tech as waterpump in a closed loop on Oneplus concept phone.
@@Tr3xShad The concept phone isn't a working model as per mkbhds video, it's just for show ie how it would look if they make it work. Even then it will only delay the inevitable as you only have the phones surface area to disperse heat to, unless they add a fan like some other gaming phones that are coming out now.
This can definitely do a great number of improvements on gaming handhelds like a steam deck, phones, and any number of other industries. I've been trying to follow their company for a while after the first video. Can't wait for the next few other releases from this company. If they have stock, I will invest!
OMG these two men are so respectable. It's just amazing how men talk about their designs and ideas.
I would love to be able to retrofit these in to my Framework laptop and Steam Deck.
There hasn't been a lot of innovation in the consumer small form factor cooling space. I hope these guys do well.
I remember about 30 years ago peltier coolers were going to replace cooling fans. I think that's when they told us that graphite batteries would make standard batteries completely obsolete.
Really good, come-back video.
Amazing tech!
Id love to see this tech used in combustion engines... : )
Simulate variable length inlet trumpets.
Didn’t think I’d get excited about cooling tech 😛
The datasheet says power consumption is 1 W to remove 5 W. That seems crazy far away from anything useful unless I’m missing something.
looks very promising. Thanks for review.
Looking forward to seeing these in use.
I love the idea however, will it be maintainable in terms of repair? Or will we simply just have to replace the whole cooling module similar to replacing the fan which the motor-mech starts to die. This seems like it has to be machine-precision created so I'm doubting a technicians ability to repair such a cooling-mechanism and it work ~95% as it did before it wore down.
This is so exciting. Imagine this in a standalone VR headset cooling a higher TDP chip.
Or any mobile device for that matter! Even your phone could stay cooler (i don't think you'd want it to draw more power lol)
VR split rendering processor was one of my first thoughts when I saw this thing.
This is definitely needed for VR.
Revolutionary technology… I hope it makes it into the tech….good questions and more importantly great responses
1:00 When he said a "high-level" cross-section, I wasn't expecting the wave that says `Vibrating Membranes` as explanation lol
So confused with this video, it felt like a half an hour ad of something we can't even buy. I really dislike how they keep hating on fans but at the same time they say they can't cool anything bigger than a 20w chip. I love new tech advances but this look really suspicious, can't wait for 3rd party testing to validate their claims.
I feel like the video is to address the questions brought up after the CES presentation. It does this very well. If you saw the first one, you would better understand the flow and context.
@@phildavis1723 Yup, I saw the CES video but I don't feel I understand more about the product after this extra 30m. It was cool to hear that there'll be comercial products using the tech later this year, if it's true then that's the biggest piece of new info from this new vid.
WoW! Can't wait till this finishes the testing phase, gets patented, and is used in devices. I can imagine running CFD simulations in my room for several hours on my laptop, and not having my sleep disturbed by loud fan noise.
Depending on the efficiency, this could be interesting for cooling the back of solar panels. Cooling could be integrated right into the panels, improving yield in summer.
This one looks great to use in different project
Will there a standalone or diy standard version we can purchase ？
after being sold in mass, I will definitely take it apart and see in this tool
This will be amazing to see out on the market, I hope it’s not exclusive to just one OEM.
It’d be pretty sweet to see this used in SFF coolers, M.2 SSD heatsinks, monitors, or other devices that don’t necessarily need a large heat sink and still remain thin & compact.
This is great tech. I like the passion of this person who I presume to be the founder. Great work
For one I'm happy this isn't a scam, but it also seems this won't be on the next switch nor the next steam deck, first because I doubt they can produce as much as those devices need it (specially the switch) and also at the time it might too expensive, but hopefully they can put in laptops, foldables and other high end devices soon so the prices could go down fast and hopefully also getting production to match a heavy demand.
this seems like really neat tech looking forward to it being used in the future
Every CZcams video about Frore gets turned into gold 😂 So interesting.
i want and need one for my old MacBook and im not alone in this!!
From what I've found online, the Noctua NH-D15, arguably one of the best air coolers on the market, has an max TDP around 250W. The Airjet Mini has a net TDP of 4.25W. It would take 60 Airjet Minis to cool a TDP of 255W. That sounds like a lot but they are only 2.8mm thick, and a stack of 60 Airjets is roughly the same height as the D15. Put it in 2 stacks to give room for air flow and you are still less than a quarter of the space the D15 takes up. You can fit over 1200 Airjet Minis in the same space as an NH-D15 cooler.
Obviously that's a little impractical to do right now, but it shows how much promise these things have. Just wait until someone designs a way to stack these vertically instead of flat like they show.
I hope this will end up in all kinds of devices. awesome technology
while started seeing this video I checked about what cooling system used in new mirrorless dslr's Like EOS R5C which recording RAW video and now upgraded with the cooling vent system... But they did with conventional... if they used this solid state cooling technology, that camera will be more efficient and near future camera companies will do the miracles with this system ... Congrats both🏆
I actually told the company about Canon's problem with the R5, and the fix with the R5C before this interview!
-Adam
He is a very patient explainer!
Interesting product, nice demo. Seems great for small form factor devices (mobile phones, laptops). I'm one of the oddballs always looking for improvements in desktop CPU cooling--the kinds of systems which use tower coolers with 120mm fans.
Where can I buy one of these to play around with for cooling a small SBC?
Schlieren imaging will create images from a fan, but it relies on a density change, yes it is easier to see a density change if there is a temperature difference, but just the act of moving air, will create low pressure and high pressure zones, eddied currents, and areas where fast moving air collides with slow moving air resulting in localized high density
It would be great to have these available for aftermarket mods. They should sell some airjet models built for certain popular laptops / devices that could be swapped in by the consumer.
great achievements for new materials and electronic usage