Why Vendors Are Testing CAMM2 On Desktop
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- At Computex 2024 three vendors showed off motherboard concepts featuring CAMM2 memory modules, but does it make sense to use this new memory standard on the desktop? In this video Adam breaks down the reasons vendors gave him.
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Timecodes:
00:00 - Intro
00:21 - CAMM2 Info
01:13 - Performance
02:17 - Capacity
03:03 - Compatibility
04:20 - Aesthetics
05:57 - Final Thoughts
#memory #computex2024 #pcbuilding - Věda a technologie
![This Is BAD, AMD Basically Lies About CPU Performance: June Q&A [Part 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BoCYyg6ecLM/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey Adam, I spoke with Micron, who had slides showing CAMM2 at DDR5-9600. They said that the cost (even with the added cost of the motherboard connector) for CAMM2 would be cheaper than a traditional four DIMM solution (2ch, 2DPC). That probably means it's more expensive than a 2ch/1DPC common layout, but they also said it's economies of scale - if it becomes popular, cost will come down :)
Mr. Wafer Man, I we do not have any wafers on us.
But maybe this 🥨will appease your hunger if but only for a day.
If you find it in your heart, please let us keep our silicon, Mr. Wafer Muncher!
The standard support a dual slot solution. So you can in theory expand your memory as it it supported on the paper. But so far I have only seen motherboard with one CAMM2 slot. Any idea on how this would be implemented?
@@afre3398 I don't think there's any kind of (reasonable) memory expansion, only module replacement.
Single CAMM2 "slot" is 128 bits / dual channel already and having 2DPC is bad for signal integrity.
There's also single channel CAMM2 modules, but leaving half of slot/pins unpopulated must be not good for signal integrity as well -- I guess not important now, but once DDR6 comes out with slowest JDEC bin of 8800MT..
1 other big problem is - it ruins beautification when building ur system - i dont want just a black block on my mobo.
@@niter43 I think people need to understand that more than 2 DIMMs or 1 CAMM2 module is really only for intensive workloads DDR5 onward. Per kit capacity is outpacing the needs of gaming and office PCs. Not that using 4 DDR5 DIMMs is even a reasonable thing to do for either.
I personally want CAMM2 not only for performance, but also that I will be able to fit a thicker AIO or not to worry about the height of the RAM if I want a huge 2 tower heatsink.
They can improve the design if they make it stack able as it's now is just one socket and you have to decide in a definitive maximum memory size each time you want to upgrade without the option of adding complementary memory just to size it up as with traditional DIMM sockets.
Also the possibility to put RAM on the backside for ITX Builds!
@@CheapoPremio Would be a nightmare to debug if the RAM should cause problem and you have to detach everything above the motherboard to reach them.
@@johnnychang4233 Are you talking about cabling? Just route your cables better and it'll be as simple as opening the back panel.
@@BlueDrew10 @CheapoPremio was indicating the possibility of locating the CAMM2 socket at the back of an ITX motherboard as in most laptops where they are at the bottom of the motherboard. But in a computer case we seldom take out the motherboard once it's installed.
There is another benefit; air coolers can now be 20-30mm shorter for the same fin area. In fact, if the top VRM heatsink wasn't made unnecessarily tall, the four top-right motherboard screw points could be used to also support very wide tower coolers, eliminating a source of motherboard flex and increasing the capability of air cooling.
Eliminating a non-ZIF socket is another small benefit.
If motherboard manufacturers only need to make CAMM2 slots in the future instead of both SODIMM(for laptop) and UDIMM(for desktop) slots, and memory manufacturers can just mass produce one form-factor instead of 2, isn’t it also a cost saving measure?
At this scale, no.
LPDDR and DDR are different, they can't share the same slot.
You would still need LPCAMM and CAMM and servers/high end workstations would still use DIMM's for density so probably not overall.
@@nadtzi'm very sure there would be a camm version for servers, you only need 6 camm2 to fulfill the 12 channels instead of 12 sticks because they have more density, also it free space for bigger heatsinks for CPUs and or less space consuming RAM coolers, only manufactureres will tell but I think this can be useful for some servers
@@reiniermoreno1653 I mean, you can read the spec for yourself and see that currently there isn't. MR/MCR DIMM will probably replace r/udimm for servers and CXL is already floating around out there, no reason for CAMM on servers.
There would be another benefit that i haven't seen anyone talk about: Cost. If CAMM2 is used in BOTH desktop and laptop, that means the choices become basically the same, and it also means less SKUs for memory makers to produce. I do not know if this is a thing, but CAMM2 should REQUIRE the ability to enable overclocking on the RAM, especially on laptops were this isn't always the case.
Whether overclocking is allowed has zero natural relation to the shape of the PCB. The only way to REQUIRE that would be to make CAMM2 a proprietary standard locked behind restrictive contracts.
I’m all for it. Would love to see this in mini-ITX.
Seeing CAMM2 on mini ITX would be awesome. I wonder if it would even open up opportunity for backside memory placement, but im not crossing my fingers.
Agreed on CAMM2 being a good middle ground vs soldering on as well. Not only is upgradeability a concern, but repairs are as well. A lot easier to swap out a socketed in memory module when one fails vs the whole motherboard.
It has a socket as well, similar to the CPU. It's not soldered on. It would definitely shine on an ITX build where air flow and space are two constraints.
The biggest problem with the mini itx will be space, as CAMM2 takes up more space in the width direction than a traditional 2 dimm solution.
@@Physis_88 It could mount on the rear of the motherboard, you could even interface it to the backside metal of most cases with thermal pads.
If you look at the height specs of CAMM2 it should fit perfectly with the default motherboard spacer height.
On an itx maybe yea, for clearance, that’s about it. I have a mini itx build and it was difficult somewhat to find the ram I wanted let alone color. Other than that there’s no point on a desktop. Also, it’s hard af to be stable in any capacity above 7000. We’re not there yet.
There's no reason why ITX board wouldn't already come with the flat DIMM standard we already had for the last 20+ years, SO-DIMM, if it would offer any actual benefit. Any cooler, even an AiO pump block, will already be about the same height or higher than a pair of regular DIMMs. Not to mention that these boards are actually space constrained much more on the x than the y-axis. See some of the ASUS impact boards which have an upright VRM daughter board. Sure, you could put the slots in the back like we see done with M.2, but this may lead to incompatibility with certain cases and insufficient airflow. You also have to consider the internal trace routing. Back when we only had through-hole DIMM slots, you could of course not put anything on the other side of the board - I'm not certain if and how this would change with CAMM2.
It doesn't offer enough of an advantage to make up for the cost in board area. Since height isn't as constrained, for desktop PCs the memory module should be under the CPU, with the DRAM arranged in a square surrounding the CPU socket.
That is a great idea. It brings some challenges with it, but I'm sure the engineers are up to the task.
I maintain my claim that this is the most interesting thing to come out of computex.
We expected everything else, from Intel's battlemage to endless ai shilling. But CAMM2 is high density, power-efficient, and will permit us to hit memory clocks never before considered. Let's go.
Do they can reduce latency? They seem "closer" to cpu
@@visitante-pc5zcyeah they're intended for that also
I agree with you 100%... All this AI b******* really pisses me off. AI in and of itself, the real stuff, has real potential and I like the technology, hell I work on it. But all this PR b******* just annoys the f*** out of me... CAMM2 on the other hand was the one and only thing that I found interesting about this whole show and I saw a lot of videos dealing with this show
I am also interested in the backside or angled to the side connectors, versus the old everything is coming out like a porcupine from the one face of the motherboard, but that was just not as interesting last year as CAMM2 is this year
@@reiniermoreno1653 No. Latency is not meaningfully affected by proximity at this scale. Latency might improve, but only as a consequence of the ability to run higher clocks. (There are queues in between the CPU core and the DRAM, and some of them are clocked synchronously with the DRAM.)
I really hope CAMM2 is here to stay on Desktop. Besser space usage, better speeds, easier to cool.
better speeds will depend on your cpu as well.... there is not a huge speed difference between dimm and camm2 on desktop stuff.
If it actually is that good, I would prefer CAMM2 over the older DIMM
Nobody has talked about the 4 memory chips on the back with regards to cooling. CAMM2 modules are also limited to 128GB maximum capacity, but the ones on display here are 64GB maximum. Currently there are no real technical advantages to CAMM2, but the future promises with regards to speed/latency stability could be good. Asus might not be seeing improvements on the speed/latency side since they have the Apex boards which are widely regarded as the best memory boards on the market.
Giving up that much max capacity is a dealbreaker for me.
For now, this might move the dial in getting mass production of higher capacity individual memory chips to be used in CAMM2 modules.
What Asus probably meant was that the effect on actual real-world application performance is imperceptible. In most workloads, memory bandwidth and latency is largely hidden by caches, which is after all the entire point.
Make it a desktop standard so that laptop makers don’t have any excuse to refrain from using it
I think DDR5 with the magic number of 10,000 MT/s would be pretty appealing to gamers.
128gb 10,000 MT/s and a argb heatsink or with a display showing the real time speeds.
Honestly I think it'll be neat to eventually see desktops and laptops using the same memory format
Better thermals, more room for activities, sign me up.
One benefit is that it acts like a 2 slot solution, having 4 slots and using only 2 can create issues for single integrity. That is why most overclocking boards ship with 2 RAM slots 😊
?
Finally, things that I always wanted : thin but using standard pc component. Imagine this in mini itx motherboards and cases. Take my money
Simply a new thing that they can sell to you, is more than enough reason to make it.
If your company doesn't have anything new to sell then you are done!
This would be perfect to get ITX to a completely new level.
The thing that I'm most worried about this thing is that if it fails, the whole thing is done. Imagine getting 128GB of this thing, and it's just... gone. All that money. Meanwhile if you get 4x32GB, if one of them dies, it still hurts but you only lose a quarter of the money you spent. If the module is split, that would be nice, but I would not even consider that thing for budget-constraint workstation setup, at least in the current implementation of it right now unless for a gaming setup with 16GB or 32GB of it.
All vendors are stating that prices will be inline with current ddr5 prices, plus this isn't new technology, it's been used in laptops for ages, so it's a proven to work, the only errors or damage you can get is user error when installing.. but what he didnt mention is all vendors allow that camm2 slot to be replaced separately if it gets damaged, so your motherboard won't be dead.. as for camm2 it's only on the Intel side, you won't see it in amd systems. Camm2 has shorter traces which helps with the lag in the new Intel chips. When changing from p core to e core theres a slight lag as the ram dumps what info it had for pcore when e core is being activated .
If you buy a set of RAM and a stick is bad, you're sending the entire thing back anyway. If you really go buy another single stick of RAM, you're just not a sensible person and you're your own worst enemy.
Do you not RMA your motherboard, PSU, GPU, damn near everything else, if they're bad during the warranty period?
@@davidh4331it has not been used in laptop for ages, it's new tech for laptop too. Hopefully it will reverse the trend of soldering.
Most memory has a lifetime warranty. Hopefully, this does too.
It would be very nice to have. I agree with what you said. Performance, aesthetics and upgradable. I would be happy to get a white amd camm2 motherboard with standard pins.
Regarding the need for heat dissipation, this is an incredible use-case for the Frore Airjet.
Looking at the board configuration, I wonder if you could get the CAMM socket a little closer to the CPU socket and you could have specially designed tower coolers that can cool both the CPU and RAM. Maybe I'm thinking too outside of the box here but just a thought.
YES TO CAMM2 - Looks better, cleaner, improved airflow.
Better cooler compability for air to get maximum preformance or clean looking monoblocks!
I think being able to reuse old desktop RAM in a laptop or mini PC is one of the best benefits of this
6:24 just to make sure you and everybody else from ASUS doesn't miss what I'm going to say here, I absolutely love this idea. I want it implemented. I wanted implemented on every motherboard and laptop, reduce my prices, make my laptop and my desktop easily upgradable. While still giving me real performance and allow me to have a little extra z height space so that I don't have to deal with all the problems of air coolers, AIOs, routing around it....
Great presentation I was able to follow along understand and wasn't distracted by any sales ploy, thanks Adam.
My main fear for this formfactor would be capacity. As long as that isn't a problem then I'm only seeing upsides.
I want there to be half ports in the back, half in the front. I want to show my 24 pin argb cable extensions and gpu 12vhpwr and 8+4cpu off and aio tubing. Looks awesome imo
I don't know why the the comments are littered with those calling this "soldered" RAM... it isn't. It's literally called Compression-Attached Memory _Module_ 2.
I'm already imagining a massive CPU cooler with 2x cold plates that covers half the motherboard. (and probably an lcd screen or two)
I'm not sure if I'm a contrarian, but I don't think I want CAMM2.
DIMMs give you a cheaper upgrade option. If you have a motherboard with 4 slots, you can buy 2 modules, and then add 2 more modules when you need an upgrade. With CAMM2, you need to remove your old RAM in order to increase your capacity. In theory you can resell your old CAMM2, but in practice, how many people will actually do that? I suspect CAMM2s will generate more ewaste as a result.
Getting 4 DIMMs also guarantees that you'll be able to benefit from the latency reduction of rank interleaving. I seriously hope that the rank configuration of CAMM2s will be listed on their specifications so we won't have to guess when we buy, but considering that it normally wasn't listed for DIMMs, I'm not hopeful that it will be.
If CAMM2s end up being cheaper than pairs of DIMMs with similar performance though, I'll get on board.
it's a bad to mix ram. even if they are of the same spec and manufacturer, it's still the best to buy ram in a set which are manufactured in the same batch. CAMM2 totally takes care of this problem
Tell the truth. You want to be able to tank your memory performance.
2dpc, 1 dpc in the wrong slot, single channel - all of those tank memory performance.
Rank interleaving provides very small benefitts with DDR5. It already has 8 bank grops of 4 banks each with 1 menory rank.
I have to be cynic and go with "we may be getting a higher discount on ram sockets if we buy in bigger volume and use them on desktop boards as well" - for laptops it's a good marketing point to have upgradable ram instead of soldered ram, on desktops you can choose between more value ram for office computers or higher end ram
It's also less environment friendly .... how many laptops are gonna be sold with a 8 or 16 GB camm2 module that's gonna be trashed as it has no resale value, when user buys a 32-64 module?
@PCWorld Did Asus show MiniITX with CAMM2 or only talking?
LPDDR5X introduces a pre-emphasis function to improve the signal-to-noise ratio (to enable higher clocks and performance improvements).
If you can fit as much RAM in that module as in 4 DIMM:s then it's much faster than 4 DIMM:s, because lower frequencies for 4 DIMM:s. However, the RAM speed only affects fraction of total execution time. If for some specific application it's limiting factor for 20% of time, and you make it 50% faster speed up would be 10% or if you make 10% speed up is 2%. The fraction of total execution time increases when CPU:s become faster, but decreases when CPU increases last-level cache size.
I can see camm2 as a godsend for itx mobos and this would mean better air cooler compatibility in the future
On a itx motherboard integrated ddr5 would actually be interesting especially in larger capacity.
I seriously hope you meant new connection format and not pre-soldered ram when you said "integrated".
@@Shini1984 256gb of high end ddr5 soldered to the back of the CPU socket for higher bandwidth would be the concept. Not for soldering ram on every motherboard, but on ITX for SFX workstations valuable. You buy graphic cards with installed memory why not a specialized motherboard.
Hopefully comes to AM5 boards as given usually with Intel systems you usually just get a "set it n' forget it," mobo,cpu,ram combo rather with AM4/5 you usually upgrade you RAM & CPU on the same board more often than the latter.
CAMM benefit for memory bandwiths to power ratio, thus for gaming, it's probably for offload from host gpu or rebinding not sure. Usually most of the game assets will probably already being loaded in GPU mem unless it's an APU or iGPU (shared with host mem), if it shared, it be will definitely significant improvement.
While I do see the benefits of of this interface, I always loved to be able to upgrade my ram by having 4 DIMM slots. Buy a reasonable amount of RAM in a 2-Kit at first, and buy the same Kit at a later date again to double the capacity at a later point to improve performance while stretching the overall costs over a bigger timeframe.
I guess I'll stick with DIMM until boards with two CAMM slots exist and offer the same capabilities and at a cost equal or lower than a DIMM solution.
It'll never sell. It's not RGB.
Seriously, this is a godsend for laptops. No more soldered RAM. Easy upgrade.
Mate, look at the size of the heatsink...it´s free real estate for RGB nuts....and to my dismay, i am serious.
RGB bling bling heatsinks and covers galore incoming with this!
For Laptops I can see a possibility that this type of memory module might have a use, but personally having 4 SODIMM's on my gaming laptop was ok. 2 were populated (2X16Gb) and I populated 2 more making it 64Gb in total. But with this new memory it seems you only have one, so if you purchased PC/Laptop with 32Gb to upgrade would mean removing the 32Gb module and replacing it with a 64Gb hence costing more to upgrade also still requiring the need to keep the old module just in case the new module failed in the future !
I could go into how it's not so simple with DDR5 to just slap another 2 modules in there, but I like another perspective I've heard recently: we have this expectation that you'll always be able to simply "add more RAM", even though we don't have that same expectation with CPUs, mobos, GPUs, PSUs.
Computing is constantly evolving. DIMM is such an old form factor that we didn't expect it to change, but one day RAM and storage as we know it may not even exist (look into universal memory).
On the back of itx with thermal interface to the case for cooling would be great.
CAMM2 would be great for a mini itx apu build. Its better for airflow in a compact space and higher ram speed for the igpu. Win win
This seems like it could be a good standard to move towards if it can work in both laptop and desktop. Maybe something to push for with DDR6 board adoption if it's proven over the next year or so to in fact be superior
miniature device, open the bottom/or side, underneath user accessible and replaceable m.2/or a few of them/ and a memory module that is on par with soldered ones specs wise, apply to nuc like devices, gamepads and tablets ....yup, want one... on the big box desktop/tower same principle, imagine those would be on the back of the motherboard to save space and optimise airflow for cooling, got a load of space for add in cards on the face side while minimising cable management as well...incredible density while minimal space requirement also while optimised for heat dissipation and noise...with some soldered ryzen or a snapping dragon maybe we get high end level workstations or gaming rigs that are lukewarm and can be passively cooled so 0dB noise...no need to cutting performance down or pay exxxtra money for exotic hardware
One more advantage: reliability and convenience.
No more having to fuss about which RAM slot is broken. If it's broken, it's broken.
Yeah, if it's broken, you can throw the mobo out, instead of you, moving it one slot over.
@@brutlern CAMM2 actually features an interposer module which should hopefully reduce RMAs due to pin/interface breakage. In that sense this form factor should be a win for repairability.
It seems a lot more practical for cooling than individual RAM sticks with built in heatsinks that can't really do that much. Given the form factor, I anticipate there will be AIOs for this if it comes to desktop at scale. It should be super easy, barely an inconvenience to cool and you should be in full control of that. If it's viable for mini-PCs as well as desktops in the same form factor, that'll really help with scale.
It's obvious that the majority of PCs should actually be mini-PC form factor from now on (slightly larger than the current standard, because they should have more storage space but also a 120/140mm fan in there). Normal office, web browsing, and even some casual gaming can be accomplished on the current mini-PC form factor so there's zero reason to use larger machines for non-gamers and people with normal professional workloads (which is Office, and Chrome etc, not media editing and AI).
People seem to be saying we still need a laptop and a desktop version for some reason, and that's a pity because the more devices it goes in the better. But, you could potentially see anything that fits in a thin and light laptop, also in professional tablet, or even phones. So even if it's still 2 form factors for laptop and desktop, there are devices that could use it that currently don't.
I'm certainly hoping to see this more on MATX and ITX. Later this year I'll be doing a MATX or ITX build to replace my laptop in my semi truck. Just ordered my case, Antec Dark Cube, and now just to wait on this next gen hardware to hit the market.
My laptop isn't too shabby, Alienware Area 51m R1/w 9700k, RTX 2080, & 64 GB RAM. I handles most things pretty well in 1080p. But looking to upgrade, I've got space to VESA mount up to a 42" monitor in my sleeper cab. I've been eager to bump my setup to run 4k 120-144hz at the least. I mostly play indie and oldie games these days, so that shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Been years since I've done a desktop build, certainly getting a bit giddy.😅
I'm certainly interested in seeing what can be done with CAMM2, not least because it both increases performance and retains the ability to upgrade/replace. Just that makes it a no-brainer imo, especially if prices (with sufficient volume) remain comparable to the current solution.
Ideally, we should put cpu socket on the CAMM2 itself, and then mount the module/bundle on to the motherboard. That’s how to get optimal memory performance. BTW, udimm is only suck at 2DPC. With 1DPC, DDR5-10000 is not an issue for udimm.
actually I like the design because with it lay flat on the board than standing up some manufacturer can design it to be placed at the back of the board like some mini pc that put nvme on the back instead on the front
Be cool to see a AM4+ motherboards with CAMM2, USB-C ports and WIFI 7 support....
That Asrock OCF camm2 motherboard reminds me of the z790 Apex from Asus. Wish it was also for am5. I can't wait to see some Noctua coolers on these memory sticks. I hope Asus comes out with another Impact mini dtx board using camm2 memory.
I'm certainly wondering if CAMM# will be the way we get DDR6
Laptop sodimm slots are already sideways anyway so the argument about height is kinda nonesense because that has been solved years, just never used in desktops afaik
I would take that on the motherboard or camm2. 32-64gb is good for me as a gamer.
I suppose it gives you more vertical space. for cpu coolers and cable routing. But then the ram might get trapped under your cpu cooler? I'm already rather tired of having to remove my GPU when I want to change my NVME drive.
i see the benefit of having an air cooler with fin stacks that extends all the way to the front case fans 😂
I think camm2 biggest improvement would he overclockig... If it also had mounting holes for something like AiO or even small air tower, we can start pushing ram even further
My initial reaction was annoyance and irritation because obviously it makes upgrading more complex.
But then I remembered that for the most part a lot of my heavy lifting stuff is done on my homelab server and that's where I've been doing memory upgrades lately.
I'm still not a huge fan, but if the benefits are legitimate then sure.
Notebooks having way better high speed DDR5 compatibility makes it evident that the desktop needs to change. You can´t upgrade 32gb ddr5 with 7000+ anyways, it will just be instable.
If the DRAM is soldered for performance rather than cost and compactness then it's not like the motherboard would be stuck with a slow 8GB...
CAMM2 brings with it the possibility of socketed (user replaceable) LPDDR5 on Thin & Light notebooks. This, I think, is the current biggest draw. Especially when you consider that Mobile is a larger piece of the x86 Pie.
I like custom loops so of course I love this.
In a build using:
- M.2 storage
- this memory
- APU
- Single side connections
- Mother board that can directly accept AGM or LiFe nominal 12 volt battery power instead of needing a power supply.
Some type of flat cooling solution ( s)
That could make for fairly thin case computer solutions. Very useful for mobile and commercial applications.
Maybe cool using an immersion approach.
Possibly some kind of video card that is parallel to the MB or the mobile versions of video cards to keep a very low profile.
Like to see a DIY build with this
I can already see some ultra CHONKY air cooler coming if camm2 becomes mainstream
I'm a bit worried about CAMM2 capacity, TBH. On the modern platforms I believe you can hit 196GB of capacity at a moderate pricing premium, so it'd be a bit of a shame if a standard like this took over for the next gen of PCs and we didn't see the same increase in capacity that we saw this gen, for instance.
As an example, I don't know the specific numbers, but if CAMM2 maxed out at 96 or 128GB capacity, we might end up not getting desktop configurations with DDR6 or extended capacity DDR5 configurations that hit, for instance, 256GB capacities on desktop with the next generation of memory capacity... Or at least, not as quickly as we went from I think 128GB DDR4 at the highest end to 196GB DDR5, for instance.
Currently there is only the single layer (physical) CAMM2 max at 128GB.
Double layer entry is allready visible in the JEDEC documentation with 256GB
So I like the idea of CAMM2 on a desktop. For me, the appealing parts are compatibility and aesthetics. Capacity or density wasn't an issue and performance is one of those things where chasing a few percentage points here or there doesn't matter for most people. I think the nice thing about CAMM2 for new builders though is that putting in DIMM can be nerve-racking since you need to apply a decent amount of force. CAMM2 doesn't have that problem. The replaceability of the compression connector means you can change out the RAM as much as you want. Also if this becomes the standard and replaces DIMM I imagine costs would go down. Also separating the aesthetics from the functionality means you can have replaceable RGB since it wouldn't be on the RAM PCB. You don't have to worry about mismatched sticks. I want this to become the new standard, rather than UDIMM.
Seems mostly marketing just to sell you something new and targets aesthetics crowd but from practicality it's better to have 4 dimms that you can replace and upgrade instead of 1 thing you have to throw out if it breaks or want an upgrade. If they are going for performance angle then just solder hbm3e memory next to cpu and call it a day.
Using my PC and laptop ram interchangably would be useful
I want this on an itx board but there no way the 24 pin can stay there unless they put it on the back
Question: RAM seems to go bad more often on desktops than any other formfactor. I wonder if soldering it on the motherboard would reduce upgradability but increase its lifespan? I've never had RAM go bad on a phone. But I've had DDR sticks go bad in my desktops.
Probably ESD damage that took a while to manifest. No reason that RAM should go bad in a short timeframe unless you're overvolting it like crazy.
I’ve got to replace a stick a year at this point with ddr4. Just had one go bad over the weekend. (Multiple systems acting as desktops and servers)
Most of the ddr4 3600 modules are garbage.
The problem so far is that systems with soldered or memory in a SoC are tiny amounts. They think everyone can get away with 8gb or 16gb. Some of us need ram. My desktop has 96gb. I’ve got a system with 160gb and another with 128gb and two more with 64gb.
Nope, CAMM2 should be only on mobile. CAMM2 will have stagnant capacity, like M.2, and manufacturers will pump the speed & latency, totally forgetting other capacities.
What do you mean? CAMM2 has the same capacity but at potential higher speeds.
@robertlawrence9000 You know that 8TB+ SSD can already exist with current tech? Yet, SSD manufacturers says it's impossible in m.2?
The same bs will happen for CAMM2 desktop. They will say 128GB+ couldn't exist under CAMM2.
LPDDR version of this could be nice for super efficient home servers.
CAMM2 is perfect for mini-ITX motherboards. These motherboards are limited to 2 UDIMM slots. CAMM2 would be a great solution to increasing the max. memory capacity for these motherboards.
Do you mean this module or the smaller ones? I haven't looked up the measurements but do you think this module would fit on the board where the DIMMS on an mITX board usually are. Isn't that right next to the 24pin header on the board?
Since CAMM2 is flat on the motherboard like the CPU, can't they just do a 2 in 1 CPU + RAM cooler? With a single heatsink covering both the CPU and RAM.
They could, but without standardizing the relative placement and such, each design would be very limited. Though now it makes me wonder why no motherboards(*at least in this segment) include their own beefy cooler that covers the whole CPU and VRM area...
I'd prefer this over traditional DIMM slots, as it would make it easier to mess around with the CPU and CPU cooler and it would help with airflow.
Embedded is a hard no. Not just because I'm on PC, but because I've suffered from RAM problems on my laptop and had to deal with those limitations in the past.
My only issue with CAMM2 would be how it slots in. It's unclear to me right now
There are more videos about CAMM2. Gordon did a great video around a week ago on CAMM2. You should check it out. The modules lay flat on some pins and are held down with screws. There is also talk of different kinds of latching mechanisms that are being worked on to hold them down onto the pins.
I'd rather motherboard designers just worked on allowing users to use 100% of the CPUs memory capability. My Intel laptop processor can use 64GB but ASUS decided that I'm only allowed to use 16GB. Thanks ASUS!
MSI AI Era of Computing ;) Reference in part to Roman's (derBauer) video on AI buzz word at Computex
Why do people say aesthetic as esstetic? I don't know why but it really annoys me when someone uses a hard t instead of a th sound in aesthetic. I guess you could say we have different aesthetics on the matter.
really bad deal as it's a forklift change when you want to increase memory size. you can't 'add' more memory to the system you have to replace the module/all the memory. For a laptop or nuc it's also ugly but space is generally more of a concern. for a desktop huge detriment.
Whatever does higher frequency got me
Why dont they put the ram on the back of the motherboard?
I wonder if you could use daughter boards to stack multiple CAMM2 boards. Probably stupidly bad for performance, but it just popped into my brain.
I was thinking of a stagged pin configuration where you have two sets side by side where one is low profiled and the other is taller. It might be tricky in cooling but maybe a special thermal wrap around the CAMM2 boards would help transfer the heat away to a heatsink.
the camm2 can go up 256 gb
We need RGB CAMM2 😂😂😂
Heat sinks in covers with a massive about of RGB and glitter incoming lol
I've noticed that ASUS doesn't seem to care about memory performance. This video confirms that it's not my imagination 😂
Yes Asus claims little to no performance uplift, they haven't made a good bios in years.
Cooling?
EDIT: What about mini_CUDIMM?
next is gpu. make it flat as well. You can just slap a big a$$ heatsink/waterblock on top of motherboard and cool everything all at once
I think it's too late for CAMM2 laptops will move to arm system on the chip.
Desktops will be very slow to adapt it also.
I think in the future we will see powerful arm chip's with 32GB or 64GB memory so everything will be sold as bundle with small itx motherboards. Hopefully RTX5090 series as rumored will be two slot cards.
We will have very powerful and small workstations.
ARM not the way yet because of no GPU support. Only weak AF Adreno GPUs
exactly, why...
Low profile, still replaceable and higher speeds than what we have now.
why not on itx boards first?
Shouldn't make that much of a difference, micro-ATX and mini-ITX are essentially corner cutouts of an ATX board.
32Gb must become minimum for this form factor.
Ecc please
So ASUS basically is saying you can either have a model t, or you can have a modern Ferrari. They see no use for anything in between... I've got a little bit of a problem with that, as a customer I think I'd rather have something a little more useful than a dead end motherboard that would be the Ferrari with everything soldered down, or old technology that is very finicky and difficult to make run fast... And gets in the way. I'm all for the CAMM2 idea and get rid of the model t