Apple please watch this. - Frore AirJet MacBook Air
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- čas přidán 23. 05. 2024
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We've made the MacBook Air cooler many times, but with the help of Frore Systems this time Apple should pay attention.
Discuss on the forum: linustechtips.com/topic/15438...
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CHAPTERS
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0:00 - Intro
0:44 - Ridge!
0:59 - MacBook Air disassembly
5:15 - CyberMonday!
5:36 - Controller and Airflow
7:42 - Preparing for AirJets
11:56 - Reassembly
14:30 - Airflow testing
15:07 - Did it work?
19:16 - Seasonic!
20:02 - Outro - Věda a technologie
Can't wait to see this presented at Apple Park in 5 years as the iBlow feature
this could've been phrased so much better 💀💀
I don't think they will do it, literally nobody would buy the pro
With subscription 999.99/months
iBlow💀
@@benedekfodor269 they can just pull an iphone trick and renaming the last gen into non-pro series
Solid state cooling is the one thing I've been the most excited for in the PC space for a while now. When it starts making its way into the Handheld PC's like the Steam Deck, I'm going to be so stoked.
Cost and power draw is what will limit it from hand held consoles like the steam deck. The cooling potential per W Is not as good as a classical fan and the cost is much much higher.
@@hishnashoh really?
@@hishnash Hopefully over time it will become more efficient and less expensive as the tech advances. It's still very new at the moment, so it costing a lot doesn't surprise me nor does the efficiency. Like all new tech, I'm sure it will get better with time.
Passive*
@@bangerxshaneYes. R&D alone makes this unattainable for handheld consoles (at this time).
This needs to get added to a gaming phone. Good dust filters are a must for a phone!
Water resistance left the chat
@@fuyoutoipx2-3 is good enoigh
@@fuyouto bold of you to assume a gaming phone will ever go near water
@@EasternAnalogue1289I'd give it less than a day before someone tries gaming in the bath with it
@@EasternAnalogue1289 the only time i am using my phone for gaming, is when me is shitting or bathing... sooo
"I don't want to break this plastic piece right here, I don't want to break this."
**aggressively bending the plastic**
8:58
One thing they didn’t mention is that if these were integrated from the beginning, the vapor chamber could be designed to move heat directly to the copper pads on the cooling units, unlocking even better thermal performance
Yeah, no doubt if designed around using those they could make it much more efficient. I think each unit can remove 5 watts of heat IIRC and it looked like they were only getting 5 watts out of the three combined. I'd guess probably because of inefficient transfer.
@@TheDarksideFNothingbut these chips itself need a lot of juice
@@_yuri if you're talking about Apple silicon then no, that's half the point of them. In this video we saw them all only drawing 20W even before they throttled.
If you're talking about the cooling devices iirc these are 1.5W each power draw to cool about 5W, but there are other models coming soon that will be significantly more efficient. Someone else said there's one that's expected to be 1.5W for 10.5W of cooling, but I can't speak for those numbers.
Plus, this is hacky edition cooling with these chips. If it were designed from the ground up to incorporate them it would certainly be more effective.
I hope Apple never does this, the nice thing about the Macbook air is they are completely silent. A lot of people buy them because of that. Studios are using them for recording.
@@Edinburgh1000 All they would have to do is give you a setting to turn active cooling off...
But at least then you would have the option to have your Air not run totally kneecapped by thermals.
I love how Alex talks to us like anyone will ever do this based on this video
I think he expects everyone tries his ideas😂
At least one person will be crazy enough to try
But also alex "i dare you to lick it"
@@redwidow1358surely you'd just buy a pro at that point?
@@jammiewins Or just not buy Apple products at all.
I think solid state cooling's pressure makes it important to think about dust/particle distribution more as they can get caught up in spaces previously inaccessible to them. Awesome tech!
I work in retail. People who use a Ridge Wallet take 70% longer to pay than people with leather wallets. In some cases, they take 10 times as long, always unable to locate their photo ID or their desired pay card in any meaningful way.
Every LTT video I've seen in the last half year or so has somebody bringing up a complaint or serious issue with one of their sponsors. It's good to know LMG has such high standards for their sponsors
@@AverageMichaelJordans The sponsor itself isn't a bad sponsor, and living in a free market society there's something for everyone. I just think those people are "wrong" because I said so.
Well said
This poses an interesting correlation / causality conondrum. How can we construct an experiment to see if the ridge wallet causes people to become confused an lazy, or if it is that people people that are confused and lazy are drawn to the Ridge Wallet? They might have had this problem with leather wallets already, and instead of working with their own abilities they assumed that the wallet was the problem and bought the wallet, creating a kind of statistical asshole cluster
Thats why Apple pay is so much better, its way faster than rummaging about for all these silly rewards cards, credit cards, etc.
Y'all should mod a steam deck with these. It already has a design that's dependent on a source of high static pressure. If you could get a vapor chamber wide and thin enough to plonk two of these onto it and then use the freed up depth to channel the exhaust through a heatsink where there already is one, you could probably make an actually compelling product. Hell, you could even skeletonize the grips and block off the rear intake so the high static pressure pulls in air across the hands and keeps them from getting sweaty.
I can smell that mod coming up 😂
Not possible. Not enough space, Frore don't produce a single unit that would be capable of cooling the APU in a Steam Deck. You can stack them like this but... space constraints.
I think Frore are working on models for higher wattages.
@@lemagreengreen how is there not enough room? Those modules are 1/3 the thickness of the fan at most. A wafer thin vapor chamber like what's used here could easily sandwich inbetween a couple modules and still have room for the intake. At worst they have to put the driver circuit in one of the aforementioned skeletonized grips.
@@Groovewonder2it can't dissipate the heat within the limits of the space requirements.
@@Therysin that's why I added the thing about keeping the heatsink up at the exhaust and ducting it out through it. Use the air movement it creates to its advantage and reuse the air. Sure, it won't be as effective as room temperature air, but airflow is airflow and it should still aid cooling. It's not like the air coming out of the frore units would be 105C. This is more about replacing the loud fan than the frore units doing all the work on their own.
Its amazing that this "to good to be true technology" is actually Freaking awesome and starting to get out of the lab.
It exists. It works. But it's like $100 per module and each one can only handle 5 watts worth of heat ejection. $300 to cool a 15W CPU isn't practical outside of the "apple ripoff" profit margin class laptops like macbooks, x1 carbons, etc.
@@blackomegax Hopefully they just need to scale for the price to drop.
@@blackomegaxits a novel tech though, still pretty niche. If they scaled up production they could become a lot cheaper. Probably room to make them more efficient as well
@@OFFICERJIMMYUTTPBull, your videos are nothing like ltt's
too good*
Enjoying the tech instead of managing a company that's why we love Linus
That m2 performance out of 20W package is mind blowing
That the throttled machine only lost ~400 points over the modified one honestly leaves me more impressed with its passively cooled design. Even while throttling under a torture test it was still able to provide close to its normal power envelope, impressive.
Yeah, it's a neat concept, but that's still ~93% of its peak performance. Once Linus said he could hear it I knew Apple will never do this. Being silent is part of the MacBook Air brand, and especially for only a 7% loss it's just not worth it.
It's a 5% difference in their torture test, to be specific (actively vs. passively cooled). I can see why they just cost-cut it out of there entirely when there is little to be gained in performance or cooling and a lot to be gained in acoustics. 100% correct design decision by Apple for their entry level laptop. Everyone is chasing those tiny process nodes for a reason.
A fanless ultrabook that is decently powerful is exactly why I chose the MacBook Air M1 when it came out over any windows laptop. There’s just no competition yet that actually competes with it on all fronts. Sure, you can find a laptop that’s faster, bigger battery, quieter, and more durable. However, I haven’t found a laptop that beats it at all of these for a reasonable price.
@@tiduszk For real. Conclusion kinda makes the video title look dumb as torture test results confirm Apple was 100% right to go passive for this model.
if you used your entire case and every component as a passive cpu cooler it's not so difficult to imagine.
It's a massive heatsink, the entire computer. Tons of surface area to dissipate the heat including into the human working with it.
I don't think it's impressive what other manufacturers would see as a design problem.
The answer is yes
first one.
Disagreed
@@just_very_queeragain, yes.
@@iliketurtles50000ı kinda like turtles too
But only if it is medium rare
Frankly I'd be more excited to see this in regular laptops too.. Especially like a replacement of that third fan in the rog strix scar 2023 or in one of the x15 Alienware.. Or an ally
I remember watching Frore's presentation during CES this year. Good to see that their products are finally coming out to the mainstream, and hopefully solid state cooling becomes to new norm!
I wouldn't exactly call "DYI guide to mutilated macbook" a "mainstream".
That wasn't my point. I was merely talking about the release of their products.@@Antervis
@@karnpandharipande They didn't release it though
@@semahj ZBOX pico PI430AJ with AirJet?
I think reviewing not yet implemented technology is encouraging for the future and really cool. Compared to whatever new phone or ear buds that are out.
Linus is blessing the machine spirit at 14:25.
Linus is a Tech Priest
@@seraphiszurvan AND PASS THE SACRED UNGUENTS!
Would this cooling system be greatly affected by dust? It seems that those intake filter areas could easily be covered in dust in a few months time
you could just blow compressed air in reverse every few months...
Anyone else having quality issues? I'm locked out of quality settings on this video only. Feels like 2009 watching videos on 360p...
Same wtf
Imagine Apple bringing back the 12” MacBook with that technology inside. Would be perfect
wish theyd bring it back as a 500 dollar chromebook competitor with a cut down chip or iphone chip or something
@@bella_ciao4608They’re planning something similar, but it might have to be around 14 inches.
@@bella_ciao4608 the iphone soc is still pretty capable, I doubt that it will be 500 because macos is part of the price of the device, unlike windows, you get free software upgrades over many years of the mac
@@bella_ciao4608 it sucks because they can. but they dont listen to the community. they just wanna keep pushing out unrepairable junk that costs 3/4 the price of the device to fix when you take it to them.
@@bella_ciao4608that would be cool… or even a 10” or 11” with an A15 chip? Think of the battery life….. my M1 gets over 12 hours of light use, imagine what the A15 with a MacBook size battery could do for things like web searching and word processing
I'm so glad y'all are doing a video actually testing out this product in a real-ish world scenario. Have been fascinated by it since you first showed it off at one of the expos!
Would loooove to see these somehow adapted into the Asus Rog Ally because mine gets quite hot but has extra space above the battery area
So happy to see this stuff finally getting demoed.
This would be great tech for the tablet form factor. I had a Surface Pro with an i5 but it was sealed and fanless. It throttled if you even looked at it funny. Something like this would be great to give the CPU just enough air to breathe a little.
alistairblaire6001
Meant that TV table thing, or Windows Phone, i5 in it ? Arc too ? plays games linus ?
fully agree with you this kind of cooling may play a huge role in things outside of laptops but in devices like handhelds to help slim them or cellphones that become molten lava if you even think about opening a game to tablets and something im not sure many have thought about but even in some of these chargers the warp charges can get very very hot and some kind of better more passive kind of cooling in the future may be in the cards to make everything we use day to day more efficient and even slimmer and more portable
I'm pretty sure the Surface Pro is not, in fact, fanless. Might have been one of the other Surface tablets?
@@fsh7583 The screen flickering issue was not due to heat. It was a problem with a specific manufacturer's screens that went out on like half of them. It would do that over time even if you didn't use it much.
@@superluig164 I own a SP3, an SP4, and a SP6. I replaced the screen of my SP4 due to the flickering issue, and it does have a fan (which I cleaned). There are several models (5-7?) that have the option to be fanless/passive cooled. My SP3 is an i7 and gets hot AF when using it for anything more intensive than checking my email (jokes), so I have it in the dock with a small fan aimed directly at the back.
Side note: that old dock is absolutely baller and I hate that they got rid of it and made the new "dock" a fricken brick instead. I haven't gotten a newer SP because I love the dock so much. It would be even more awesome if it had a cutout back to allow more cooling if you have an external fan setup like I do.
14:39 "No moving parts guys!" ...Meanwhile the manufacturer: "Inside the AirJet are tiny membranes that vibrate at an ultrasonic frequency"
It's literally the exact same as a Speaker or Diaphragm pump, and absolutely has moving parts. Especially with Piezo and ultrasonic frequencies, it's a terribly inefficient way to move air but the design and operation is literally identical to a Tweeter or similar. Just more fake tech.
I think the selling point of the Air is that it does not have an opening that lets the inside get dirty over time. A Closed, fanless PC (not a laptop person) is something I really want.
I'm curious to see if they would have been able to add some vertical spacers in the chassis so they can fit the Frore jets on top of the chip, and then perhaps used a 3D printed or CNC'd lip to fill in the extra space between the edge and base of the device, so that everything still works in the damn device :')
I love that Linus is going back to his strengths. I love this content
I hope the "mishap" from this year has finally made him follow the right route and for good this time
Linus and Alex f*ing around to do some sketchy project makes the best most interesting LTT videos.
@@MrLycan1995 agreed. they somehow alternate both of the "fuck it" and "lets not break it" roles, i guess they control each other's chaos. super entertaining.
agreed
You mean breaking stuff?
I would have liked to see you talk about the power consumption of the cooling, especially in relation to the normal power consumption of the MacBook. You could also calculate the impact on battery life using the total Wh in the battery.
Agreed. According to their specification it will consume 1.75W. If it's blasting at full power that's an additional 5W of power consumption (considering there are 3). That is not a small number whatsoever.
@@Spentalei that is more than the entire laptop including screen at idle. So runtime cut in half. Of course you don't need cooling at idle.
However, this will only add little performance to low power devices as was proven on the video. And for high performance device it doesn't provide enough cooling. I'm not sure where this product will be useful. But I'm excited to see the future!
@@SpentaleiI get that, but if you are hitting your laptop hard enough and long enough to throttle, you’ll probably want to be on wall power anyway.
@@stonep11 What? No? Macbooks are literally designed to work for extensive periods from the wall even when going full blast. Not that full blast is particularly high here, but I'd consider it an identifying feature of a Macbook.
Strongly disagree with you here.
They could also build it into the power program where if the cpu/gpu is going over 60%+ (doing a intensive task) then it switches on, like modern gpus and psu's have a 0rpm mode, that would then mean most of the time the battery usage will be the same as it is currently in macbooks but kicks in when doing intensive workloads
I remember finding out solid state cooling a few months ago on this channel, it was a regret that i bought a laptop recently knowing that solid state cooling would be likely adopt way sooner than i thought, and mostly because of the snapdragon x elite laptop chips.
I'm not convinced it will. They even openly state they have air filters, what happens when they clog up which is going to happen a whole lot quicker than a fan?
It's pretty neat tech, interested in seeing where it goes. Though the utility of solid state cooling for general consumer products is probably a couple hardware generations away.
I don't see why you couldn't have added those another way just by making a new bottom cover for a for the computer and adding them in there so it just makes a little tiny bit thicker like you pointed out
It would have been nice if you also made a comparison of the noise emmision between the two MBPro and the modified version - I suppose it should be way quieter, but - what noise level das the MBP reach?
Oh, and if this really works - maybe give Framework a call?! ;-)
Using stock settings they're quiet, but what he missed here is you can modify the fan control to where it becomes loud but cools a whole lot better than default. That may also widen the performance gap.
Thanks for the PSU advertising, I've bought recently one of this brand's PSU for the PC we were assembling with my friend. I didn't check a lot and chose the first available by power and efficiency numbers. Now I am sure that it was a good choice because it used to be like a no-name brand for me.
Love the Edison motors cap. Love that channel.
Alex repping Edison Motors, would LOVE a crossover episode with them.
These little air pushers are so cool.
They are efficient, move lots of air, in a tiny space.
"efficient" lmao
@@utkarsh1874for the size. Definitely. A fan this tiny would be totally useless.
Not sure about power though.
@OFFICERJIMMYUTTPbro joined 5 months ago
@@SirPoppyjust report it
@@ACuriousFellahuh?
Original, well thought out video that is unique and thought provoking. 🎉🎉🎉 Well done Linus
I'd love to see this compared with using one of those aluminum laptop stand wedges with case fans attached to it to see the difference.
The Frore jet cooler is an amazing innovation, especially laptops alike.
the differenc ecould have been larger if you would have stressed the GPU as well. I know this from my M2, but generally, this is why many are still fine with its capabilities... 5% reduction in performance despite passive cooling is just impressive.
So glad to see this technology continue to get traction, truly the dopest tech for small electronics in development
I always thought apple removed the fans in the macbook air after they released their own chips is because both the Air and Pro are essentially the same.
The only key difference being that the pro has a fan and doesnt thermal throttle as quickly...
Man this tech is so cool, I really hope it gets into the next wave of laptops
dont hold your breath i highly doubt it
Doubt.
not going to happen anytime soon. the issue is fan companies are monopolizing the air cooling sector. they'd all go outta business if they let this tech into laptops/pcs. its going to take some time.
did you see the power cable it is pulling 45W … it won’t be useful any time soon
@@Bramble20322 Did you comment before you watched the video? 15f cooler than regular fans AND kept the laptop from throttling; improving CPU performance by 26%. Keep in mind there is so much more room for improvement since the case wasn't designed for airjets to begin with. Yes, it does consume more power but that's to be expected if you want a cooler/ more efficient laptop. Yes, it does cost more but that's because its still in its beginning stages. If this were to be mass produced then it'd be significantly cheaper.
Besides, people pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars for a slight performance increase. This will be no different.
People have made gains and even bridged much of the gap between an M2 Macbook Air and an M2 Macbook Pro just by using a thermal sheet, bridging the tiny heat block to the bottom chassis, exchanging a warmer bottom for using it as extra heatsink. That had significant results for less throttling.
It looks like they added a fair amount of copper heatsink there. I'm not doubting that the airflow adds to the performance, but an important comparison would have also been passive copper heatsinks with no airjet too. That said, I hope Apple is looking closely at these and integrates them if they can improve their products, but I don't want the Air to move air, I want it for the Pro for as much better and smaller than fans it can be.
Yeah, the Air just really needs a thermal sheet. This airjet stuff could go a long way to making it possible for the MacBook Pros to become thinner and lighter, or could let Apple stuff even more performance out of their chips
Apple is for sure not looking to make their lower end products better, as that would cannibalise their higher end products.
Can’t do that. There is a legal limit for how hot the bottom can be. MaxTech did just what you suggested and the bottom became hotter than the law would have permitted.
@@techinrl9869 There actually isn't a legal limit, but there are several recommendations that converge on not exceeding 48°C, and there are high temperatures which require a warning label or can come with workspace restrictions.
That being said if you were Apple and intended to optimise performance while observing this 48°C threshold, you would still install thermal pads board to case, and then adjust the board throttle threshold down until you meet this spec. Because evicting heat is always better than not evicting heat.
@@AlexBarbu The easiest handicap on the Air is having a base M-series chip while the Pros get better SoC’s like the Pro and Max chips. People buy the base M3 MBP because they want the nice screen and ports, not because it has a fan.
Apple doesn't have to limit thermals in order to differentiate the products. Apple sees having no fan as a competitive advantage because they put a high emphasis on quiet computing, low power usage and therefore long battery life, and light weight. That’s why people buy the Air more than any other Mac.
I feel the biggest thing this video proved was that apples cooling solution was actually perfectly adequate for the intended use case of a MacBook Air - short bursts of high-performance, but overall light duty work. The fact is took 20 minutes of a synthetic load to bring out like a 10% difference in benchmarks? It could absolutely benefit from this cooling technology, but it also wasn’t a mind blowing difference either. Maybe with better integration, we would see a greater difference, as to be fair. This was a fairly DIY hacks job and still prove the point.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. MBA’s are meant for people who do basic stuff, or short bursts of heavy stuff. If you need anything more, then you need a MBP, or to just deal with the throttling.
Can’t wait to see this technology improve and go on laptops ! Mine make so much noise !
Surprised there isn't a market for replacement bottom covers of macbooks that would allow a little better airflow or bigger heat sink.
Actually for any laptop, would be nice to get new bottom cover that allows space for mods, extra components and such.
I'd love the idea but most likely the market isn't big enough for something like that especially for Mac Books most people just want a laptop that just works and they don't need to think about ever again. Maybe the Framework is the closest thing you could get today.
That kind of thinking is basically the antithesis of the design philosophy of the Air, which is to be as thin and light as possible. Not that it couldn't be applied to other laptops.
Laptops are too short lived for a proper market to develop around a single model. One notable exception are of course framework laptops.
@Amphibax maybe with further 3d printing advances it'll be a thing. A larger or open bottom to allow for more cooling when docked at a desk and another plate for mobility. Oh well
Because the market for Macbook Air and that kind of enthusiast build is a market of 0.
I remember seeing this thing back at CES or whatever when you made a video on it. Thought it was super cool and had good potential for gaming laptops and stuff. Wonder if the company is publicly traded
Us techie types need to create our own venture capital fund so that we can get in on things like this, before I.P.O.!
i am already imagining cooling something like ultra 5 which packs real power in really slim bodies like macbook 2015 or hp 2016 that kind of elegant designs.
I remember seeing these before your last video. I have been waiting for these to be used in a reasonably priced high end laptop.
I'm actually happy that it do not have moving air for cooling. Less things to wrong without dust. Pro is for the people who do renders etc.
One of the coolest things about the air jets is since they have such high static pressure they can draw air easily through ridiculously fine filters. Effectively dust free air cooling.
They covered this in the original video showcasing the product. It's worth a watch.
Finally, this pieces of technology ar getting the attention they deserve
@@OFFICERJIMMYUTTPhey, tell your creator to get a father.
Great video. I like seeing how new tech could be used to improve things
yes, the 6 speaker sound system is only available on the 15 inch MacBook Air. High fidelity sound system comes on the pros, this includes a higher wattage amp and tweeters that fire out of the grills on the laptop and fire the woofers out of the fan intakes on the bottom
I love the air exactly because of the fact that it has no vents
For me as software developer it never throttles to a point where i would miss performance i actually never noticed any performance loss at all
the only downside is that the current one has only 24GB of RAM even when you max out everything :/
I guess you never ran Android Studio on it 😂
The static pressure is so high that you don’t even need vents, it’s able to suck air through the gaps in the chassis.
@@shivamsood2043 I've had several IntelliJ projects open at the same time and zero heat. It handled them like a champ.
not android studio but intellijs IDEA + ios + android simulators @@shivamsood2043
me when apple charges $200 for $20 of memory
Also, if I'm remembering correctly, they said it was more efficient in terms of energy consumption. Which could allow the use of larger batteries in other devices where much of the space is used to cool them.
what kind of device has battery heating issues LOL
@@jatoxoliterally all the devices, and also, that was not the point I wanted to make. What I wanted to say is that we could take advantage of the space to put larger batteries since we would not have to use space on conventional fans inside a device (like laptops or portable consoles).
@@nnoas971 Fans don't take up that much space, and if you make the battery bigger, you make the device heavier. Plus plenty of laptops already have the legal maximum battery capacity you are allowed to take on a plane, which means they can't actually add any more capacity.
@@alexatkin Why is it so difficult to understand that I am talking about the future? Of course, today's fan system does not take up much space since it has been optimized for many years. This is an emerging technology, and its use and modifications to optimize it have not yet occurred. And as for the batteries, referring to the fact that I'm talking about the future, those restrictions are for Li-ion batteries. Nowadays, there is solid battery technology that is safer than Li-ion batteries and should not have the same restrictions, but the bad thing is that at the moment, they are kinda difficult to manufacture for industrial purposes, much less commercial ones.
@@alexatkin 100Wh so most laptops withLARGE battery packs claim 97Wh. Apple is around HALF that value.
Have you thought about reviewing power supplies? See which ones actually can deliver the power they claim?
Feels like it could be a very deep video. I'd also like to see how the power supplies from temu and wish work
I think there is a flaw in the experiment. You did more than just add 3 piezo fans. You also added a better heatsink. I think you should have included a 4th laptop in the test, one that had the same exact mods (including the gap) but without the piezo fans. If there is a difference between the two modded laptops, it would better prove that the piezo fans are making a difference.
Thank you Frore and LTT. PLEASE do a SFF PC build using this tech!
it doesnt have the cooling capacity for that yet
@@bradhaines3142 Indeed, I am totally hoping this tech scales. If they can scale it by a factor of 10, you really do start to get into the fan replacement zone. And if high quality fan systems costing upwards of 50-120 bucks, even if this costs a bunch, it won't only need to be in that regime.
@@bradhaines3142 100% just commenting so they do it as soon as possible haha
I was so excited to try this. Even as he kept going about the drawbacks. but when he hit the keyboard not working part. my dreams were crushed
Edit: he started cutting the ribbon cables. This is becoming increasingly hard to watch
Linus Tech Tips did Minus Tech Specs
Yeah... Mods aren't supposed to nerf half your I/O, _including your keyboard, sound, primary charging, and ability to power the machine on manually..._ This was actually painful to watch. For a piddly little 400 point loss, the passive cooling solution isn't doing as bad as it could, and if you need peak performance, get the friggin' Pro... I was looking at getting a Mac Mini myself, and when I realized it wouldn't meet my monitor needs, I instead got a pre-owed Mac Studio, which offered me far greater features than even a new upgraded Mac Mini would, and I still had some time left on the Applecare, so not like my used purchase was entirely without warranty. Buy to your needs. Doesn't even need to be brand new. Don't get the thing you know throttles under high loads and then complain that it doesn't perform like the Pro model.
I say all this, _being_ the type of person that mods things all the time. I've fixed my own phones, and even installed an additional heatpipe into my last phone... Mods can be useful. Nothing broke on my old phone. It wasn't just a _net_ positive gain... It was a _purely positive_ gain. I don't even know if this Macbook Air mod can even be called net positive... So many negatives detract from any benefit....
They already did a video that is a much better thermal mod - just connect the heat spreader to the bottom case with a thermal pad. Gives a much larger thermal mass for passive cooling and doesn't remove any features
@@richfilesIt's a proof of concept and not meant to be done by anyone
Apple will be making this available for future PRO models.
Thanks Linus.
3:34 we know these CPUs don't take that much power but there is absolutely no way they wont saturate that one sooner or later.
Finally, presenting the iSuck! What is their power consumption and how much does the bigger pro version cool and consume power? How much more battery could you increase with the space savings? Also do another video where you replace the fans and put the bigger ones directly on the die on the macbook pro.
It depends on how much has changed from their previous version, but the older ones were rated at something like 5W of heat disipation for 1W for the module itself. That is similar in scale to existing fans. They had a "pro" version which was effectively 2 of them for 10W of heat dissipation for 1.4ishW.
1.75W each so that would be an extra 5W power draw... Total system power (screen + SOC etc) under heavy load is close to 25W so this is a large increase in power draw.
@@hishnash I don't know the scaling properties of the cooling chip, but in theory it would only need to turn on when things are really cooking, so would only potentially really take a bite to battery performance when in max power draw mode anyway.
@@hishnash Also, from their website
AirJet Mini removes 5.25 Watts of heat at a silent 21 dBA noise level, while only consuming a maximum of 1 Watt of power.
so a bit of an overestimate on the power draw, but for such a total low power SOC, your conclusion is totally the same :D
They have mutable models the units used in this test were the larger units that each pull 1.75W@@BeCurieUs
Would love to see this tech used in 1slot gpus.
I don't find it promising for this use case. I mean 1slot GPU can easily be built with current fan/heatsink tech to expel well past 100W (a viable target for mainstream class performance) and not even make it too annoying, and you could further improve the efficiency of VRM circuits but there's cost to it that the companies don't feel confident enough in paying. This maybe eventually they get bigger units that could ever reach tat sort of performance but it's likely to take decades and see their already mediocre efficiency tank. Not to say that this isn't an exciting tech, it's just the wrong niche.
I want to see Alex and Linus try to build an NH-D15 sized cooler from these devices. Like 30-50 of them just stacked on top of each other in several columns. Ridiculous? Sure. Would we all watch that? You bet.
"your macbook will not need apple care"
LMFAO!! This may be one of the funniest things i've heard Linus say and I've been watching since NCIX 😂
I like how they present the video as a tutorial like anybody is going to actually do this.
Because presenting the benchmarks in ~5 minutes doesn’t allow for 3 ad breaks
@@PsychicOracle rather because just presenting the benchmarks in 5 minutes wouldn't have made a good video
When I saw these coolers in the works a while back, I knew they would be a game changer in cooling community.
Soon as I saw Apple producing computers without fans, instantly thought of this, so glad to see a video on it done.
I love to see DIY cooling for retro consoles, that use small winy fans.
Solid state cooling is the one thing I've been the most excited to be seen in Phones and Hand helds like steamdeck.
AMD's GPU in aSAMSUNG phone with raytracing and Upscaling would be a game changer .
Quick question... If the intakes are 400 microns thick ( extremely small) and if they get clogged by dust wouldn't it be extra difficult to clean them off? Also because they r so small wouldn't it be ever easier for them to get clogged with dust in the first place??
Good point
I guess it would depend on the path the air takes. The static pressure is so high such that if dust makes it in, it will be pushed all the way through to the other side. The dust that is too large to make it in would get stuck on the outside and can be wiped away. But that's a best case scenario. You can absolutely design something which will clog up within hours
From what I've heard it just doesn't clog, from the no moving parts to the high static pressure dust shouldn't settle and get stuck
I think in a different video that LTT did with these people. they said that it will never clog due to fluid dynamic magic. its also not hard to reverse the flow to blow the dust out.
With so much pressure they probably don't care all that much about dust and draw in air anyway.
This is what we need from a tech channel. Great job LTT team
@@DK.dk11 agree, but I believe many viewers do not seek originality. for originality mattets, they need to provide detailed procedure, report and the work needs to be peer-reviewed on top journals/conferences
Imagine if you did heat pipes like one of those insane looking air coolers, but instead of aluminum fins cooled by an external fan, you had aluminum fins cooled by direct contact with these things.
How much of the difference is because you cut a larger air hole and made the internal chassis larger? If you do the experiment with a stock cooler modified with a larger hole and thinner back panel to make a larger chassis, would that make a difference? We also never got to hear the sound difference and pitch profile.
Airjet coolers and framework laptops will change the industry. it's amazing to see non behemoth tech companies doing something that they should do, Innovate.
@@OFFICERJIMMYUTTPthe guy you’re replying to has literally 0 subscribers lmao
@@xxXKogasaWe3dL0rd420Xxxhe's replied the same thing to more than one person so I'm gonna assume he was talking about Linus
@@Fallen_Family nah more like attention baiting so people would go to their channel
The lack of airflow is one reason I went with the Air vs the 13” ‘Pro’ so it won’t accumulate dust and need cleaning over time.
Should note I leave heavy workloads for the big computers at home with a 3900x, and 5800x3d
When do we get this same video, but with the Steam Deck? Would love to see what solid state cooling does for thermals as well as battery life!
There’s gotta be a magnetic style external heat sink that attaches to the bottom cover and makes contact right around where the M2 processor is located to help draw heat away from it.
Why cant i change video quality?
I feel like you needed one more tests with a macbook with all the modifications you did except the airjets to confirm it was due to the airjets causing the performance boost
Implement a small finned heatsink where air can pass through and it will perfrom much better! For small laptops this would be game changing.
Seems like just a better passive heat sink might be sufficient
This is something that would be awesome for handheld consoles! Imagine this on the steam deck or next gen switch!
Awesome tech. Potentially game changing. But I worry about how quickly those intake filters will clog with dust
Beat me to it! :-)
it has 10-20 times the static pressure of a typical axial fan, it doesn't really care about dust on the filters.
@@Blacktronics Of course it does, if it was able to overcome a blockage of the filters, dust would get inside breaking it. This technology IMO is dead in the water, Macbooks are already dying from dust breaking the screen cables. People don't use laptops in dust free environments.
@@alexatkin
Piezeoelectric pumps are nothing novel, we've been doing a lot of microfluidic related R&D where I work for well over a decade now.
The whole thought process behind "if it's able to overcome the blockage, it would also pull the dust through" is very flawed, what gets through and what doesn't really only depends on the space between fibers. Either the particle fits through or it doesn't.
Particulates do not pack into an airtight seal, think of the filter as a jar of marbles or a box full of entangled wires.
Particles smaller than the spaces between the filter material can get caught by sticking to the fibers, but theres is no guarantee they won't make it through eventually.
Particles larger will simply get lodged.
The smaller the particle is, the further it can penetrate into the material before getting wedged or stuck, however, the next particle getting wedged adjacent will certainly not produce a cohesive bond to it and be airtight, you can still pull fluid past it.
As particulate builds up on the filter, it begins increasing its resistance to the airflow, or typically we say that the pressure drop across the filter increases.
With every pump you basically have a pressure budget, so every duct, filter or other
The filters they are using here are likely nanofiber, which characteristically don't really clog, the pressure drop does increase initially but eventually hits a plateau.
And this, as you might guess by now, is why the high static pressure these things can make is so beneficial, your total pressure budget is huge.
14:26 really hoped you'd pull out one of the new mini sabres, blowtorch is also fine though xD
Would love to see a follow up video in 6 months - 1 year to see if these modifications cause any long term problems
That little thing is so cute and produces a lot of hot air. The airjets are pretty cool too 😂
Neat experimentation. Although, the fanless "air" does do very, very well and it really is only certain super heavy CPU dependent tasks that can thermal throttle the thing. I played all of the quite-graphic-intensive game Soma on my base line m1 air and it performed beautifully. Sure, the laptop ACTUALLY did warm up a bit compared to the cold metal nature it usually is in every other situation, but, it ran that game amazingly without throttling/slowing its performance. The only task I have found that will throttle thing thing is batch script image stacking/aligning for super large panoramas in photoshop raw. Tasks like this are still done with decent speed, though and with little desire to need any better speed to upgrade to a Pro with active cooling.
Let's be real and not call Soma graphic-intensive.
I think the thermal throttling happens on the M2 models more than the M1 ones
while this is true if im going to be spending thousands of dollars on hardware i cant even maintain myself, let alone the other thousands of dollars apple wants for things like ram and storage upgrades, you better at least design it such that i can get my moneys worth out of the cpu without it disintegrating due to thermals.
I'm spending money on the whole silicon, i want to be able to USE the whole silicon.
Not to mention running in hot environments, this sort of set up is highly dependent on a colder environment.
Yeah the lack of any fans is kind of the point, and what’s so impressive. I get that the point of the video is just to show this off though, and Linus/the writers probably understand all that. It’s a cool concept nonetheless, and probably useful for those who bought a MacBook Air and want some extra cooling. Seems like something that would be great to install and use when needed, and otherwise just use the passive cooling.
Would be awesome and be pretty on brand for Apple to implement something like this in one of their devices though.
Why not? It's a beautiful game. It IS graphic intensive, a rather efficient and beautiful engine from a rather small game dev company.@@TheBuildTeam
I am missing some battery statistics for this. I wonder how much more battery this drains, even though it's obviously not optimized or production-ready, so to speak. Battery life plays a significant role in choosing between an Air and a Pro model.
7:40 "look at how straight that Linus"
I was finally debating a Mac as I'm starting a CS degree since it sounds like some things require it. Ended up just going with a framework though since the price difference was so large I couldn't justify it for things that seem like I can work around.
How is it working for you I’ve been using a 2015 MacBook Pro that’s kinda old asf I was thinking frame work but Idk Ryzen 7 or intel 13th gen
Aren’t frameworks in the same price range as a base model macbook air?
Definitely ryzen for the better igpu though there are only 2 tb4 ports available at the back
CS 1.6 on apple, why not, if all are M.2 it works !
emulating it all !
on 5 watt !
Nothing CS related requires a MacBook 💀
I'm actually more than ever impressed over how Apple manage to get the performance they do out of a chip that does NOT have any cooling at all. Air almost keeps up with the Pro with fans which is no less than mind blowing. Well done Apple!
apple silicon is amazing. too bad it's apple
You guys got it flipped. I’ve closely followed Apple’s every move for the past 20 years. This uses more power, and it decreases the performance delta between the MBA and the MBP. Apple doesn’t want either of these things. Where everyone goes wrong is thinking that Apple competes with their competition. At Apple, they mostly compete with themselves and how they market each product to slot it into a category. The MBA is for users who don’t give a crap about performance, but want all day battery. These users never see sustained loads.
When someone wants performance, Apple upsells them to the MBP. What I see Apple doing is putting a beefier version of this in the MBP. I have the 14” M3 Max 16/40 with 64GB unified memory. The fans can get pretty loud under sustained load. Reading forums, this is the biggest complaint I’ve seen in the community. That and the 14” performance under load falls behind 16” model over time and the 14” battery isn’t as long-lasting.
If they put this in the MBP, they might be able to do it for less power and in less internal volume than fans. I would need to see the numbers, but that could be a big win. Especially for the 14” model, which could get a larger heat sink to compensate and maybe even a few hundred more mAh of battery capacity. For the 16” model, they are at max capacity for airline regulations on battery but could potentially make the device slightly thinner or lighter, which is great for a 16” device. And making both silent for professionals would be a huge win.
One question remains: Can this tech be scaled up for a larger system with higher TDP without hitting the battery harder than a fan? If not, then I don’t see this happening until this companies redesigns the product to be more efficient.
Also, you know what other Apple devices I could see this being used in? Vision Pro and iPad Pro. They might be able to cool a Vision Pro with M3 or M4 Pro using this. I doubt it will stay on standard M-series forever, it will at least graduate to the M Pro-series in the coming years while the M-series drops down to the Vision Air or whatever.
BTW the Vision Pro is getting the M3, Apple just couldn’t announce it yet. It’s gonna be a surprise.
9:50 Linus, I believe Kapton tape was used for electrical isolation, but it is also a bad conductor of heat. Kapton was originally developed for aerospace applications to shield against high temperatures
this + amd cpu/apu will bring the future of thin light and powerful laptops, cant wait
and also hope framework will use this in future as well
fiffy6572
AMD and Nvidia failed, alienware Arc book now ?
Emulating the DX x86 is faster now, not fast enough for FPS online, i know.
why shooters noobs on apple ?
This is neat, but how long does a solution like this work before dust accumulating on the inside makes the performance worse?
About that, another really cool feature of these is the static pressure is so high you can use absurdly fine and robust filters. You can still maintain an effectively dust free environment despite air cooling.
Check out the first vid LTT did on the product, they cover this info in it.
@@TheDarksideFNothing that’s really cool!
Make a DDR5 active cooling solution with these using optional fan pins on a motherboard for power. Could be interesting if they can be effective use-case instead of stock radiators on RAM modules.
Very cool! Although if Apple decides to integrate this into the Macbook Air, making its performance on par with the base Macbook pro 14, I’m wondering if they need to do something to keep the base Macbook pro 14 a higher tier product, right?