Shane had a great philosophy when he talked about having to fight to survive, and needing to kill to protect whats yours, but his actions are what compromised him and negated all of his ideas. Him attempting to kill Rick multiple times and even sexually assaulting Lori completely outweighed all of the good thoughts and intentions he had.
I blame Lori for Shane going nuts. She lead him on hard when she told him she didn’t know who’s the baby was. She kept Shane as a plan b for a “just incase my husband dies.” Gross af
I've always seen Shane as the villain of season 2. Rick at his worst never tried to rape, never killed a member of the group, never manipulated the group with a scenario like the Randall one and never tried to kill his friends.
Shane was drunk when he assaulted lori, Otis wasn't a part of the group, (he was only a part of the farm group) Shane killed randall for the sake of the group, He wasn't gonna kill rick, he lost everything so he didn't care if he would die, he made rick become him in a way.
@@footedthread9315 him being drunk doesn't make it okay. Being drunk lowers inhibitions, it simply means that he was more willing to do what he already wanted to do. Otis was a member of the group as were Hershel, Maggie, Beth, etc. Even if he wasn't though, Rick never slaughtered an innocent person to save himself. The problem wasn't so much that Shane killed Randall, although that was bad on its own as the group had decided to free him as they should've, innocent until proven guilty. We don't know if Randall would've tried to kill them. The bigger problem was he manipulated the entire group to make them think Randall escaped so he could spread people and then eventually kill Rick. Of course he was gonna kill Rick. Look in his eyes in season 1 when he thinks about shooting Rick, he legitimately considered it and things had only gotten 100 times worse. That and a shot goes off from Shanes gun when Rick stabs him. If Shane wanted to die then why shoot at the guy doing it. Sorry, but people who defend Shane have to defend rape, murder and rewrite history to make him look better.
@@anunknownentity1637 the very bottom is false, I do not defend rape, i'm defending his character, you have some pretty valid points, but shane Made it all look like he was gonna kill rick, but he wasn't, he just wanted rick to be like him, And rick killed a savior Brutally before somewhere before carls death (he slaughtered an innocent man to save himself) he left andrew to die in the prison hoping walkers would eat him, Hershel states many times in season two to rick, "i want YOUR group gone" and andrea and shane both wanted randall dead, but shane did it, in season 1 shane THOUGHT about shooting rick, but did he pull the trigger? No, he did not. Also before otis dies, shane offered himself before shooting otis, he didn't KILL otis, He GOT him killed.
@@footedthread9315 where in the show did Shane ever say that he did what he did because he wanted Rick to be like him? He didn't, you're reading that into that scene because it makes Shane look better. The truth is Shane wanted Rick gone and he saw his chance so he took it. He wouldn't have tried to shoot him if he just wanted to die. Yeah Rick killed a Savior, so? Do you really think Otis and the Saviors are equal in terms of moral righteousness? Andrew wasn't innocent? He was a criminal that tried to attack Rick and Rick chose not to save him. You could still argue this was bad but it isn't the same as shooting an innocent man in the leg purposely. Furthermore, Andrew dispels any notion of being a good person when he tries to kill the whole group and succeeds with T-Dpg and Lori. Axel and Oscar also attest to him being a bad person. Hershel always told Rick he wanted them gone eventually and Rick was always biding for more time. There was never a moment where Hershel said leave and Rick refused. Andrea didn't want Randall dead, she was literally the only person to side with Dale. Since you brought one of my points about Shane up again I'll respond. I never said season 1 Shane tried to kill Rick, I said he considered it. If at that point Shane was willing to consider that as a possibility, how much more so a lot later when things have escalated. And it's not like I'm reading this in either. We see Shane try to kill Rick at the end of season 2 and I brought up season 1 to show it was a natural progression of where Shane was. You also said you don't defend rape yet you gave Shane a pass because he was drunk which is bad, very bad. Being drunk doesn't make you do the opposite of what you want deep down, it brings it to the surface.
Jon Bernthal played Shane sympathetically really well, in fact he had his own ending in mind for the character where instead of trying to kill Rick he was trying to get Rick to kill him at that final scene because he was miserable and because he wanted Rick to get that killer instinct but they didn't go for it.
Nah and you can see why. Shane's actions didn't align to him being miserable and wanting Rick to make the hard choices, he was infatuated with Lori In previous episodes and scenes, it was Rick making the harder choices 1. Shooting the walker girl (Shane froze) 2. Killing the guys in the town (possibly the first living Rick killed after they mentioned about taking the farm) 3. Killing Shane (Shane got emotionally manipulated by Rick, just so Rick could get in close and stab him quietly not to draw in walkers) Shane was already pistols at dawn Shane was prepared to lose Carol and Daryl by giving up the search (and whoever else) Shane wouldn't have attempted to find or save Hershel (The only person with experience in medical care) Carol emotionally grief stricken seeing her daughter become a walker might have tried to embrace her or get bitten (point is here that Shane froze, while Rick didn't)
Shane was a “bad” guy immediately when he overstepped the boundaries of the bro relationship. When they thought he was dead it was OK , but Shane literally tried killing Rick for Lori , which is , ultimately , pathetic .
You know what’s pathetic? Trying to act like you don’t have your human primal instinct of fighting other males for mates, especially ones that are yours and suddenly were taken from you. So, ultimately, you’re pathetic.
@@Mak7evenno Shane was just pathetic and a simp he chose a woman over his best friend like their was plenty of other woman he could’ve gotten with like Andrea remember that little car sex they had?
My thoughts exactly. I rewatch the first 3 seasons over and over, but I lost interest after the prison, really. Those days when it was just the Atlanta group and the Greene family were just so golden.
@Bonk I’d say the show is definitely worth watching until season 6. The Terminus and On The Road arcs give some of the best moments of the show in my opinion. The writing takes a nose dive after they make it to Alexandria
Shane and Dale were the first two extremes of the start of the outbreak. One was more stuck in the past civilization manners, while the other was in the extremes of surviving. Rick was the middle ground that swayed from one side to the other.
Rick wasn’t even close to the middle. He was closer to dale. And Shane was 100% right had Shane took charge instead of Rick the entire group would still be alive
His “do anything” mindset wasn’t about protecting Lori and Carl, it was about protecting what he thinks is HIS. “Lori and Carl are mine” is what he thought. He spent a long while in denial that Lori and Carl weren’t his. So essentially when he learned that Lori was pregnant with a baby that really was his flesh of course he snapped. The denial wasn’t even in the picture anymore, it just became “Rick is going to take away Lori, Carl, and MY KID” and he’d literally do anything to take them back.
Lori constantly nagging him about not to look at her or her son, yet whining about his decision to leave. Then threw him the curveball about being pregnant to essentially lock him into staying while feeding into his craziness by constantly saying thank you so much for all you've done, but stay away from me (but don't leave the group). Lori is the siren that got him killed.
This! I've never understood why people don't see Shane as a villain and also why they think Rick becomes Shane because of this. Shane shows himself very early in season 1 to be very self centered and needs to feel powerful, he doesn't care about the group but about how they view him. His behaviour gets worse as people turn against him and favour Rick more. He's shown to be a rapist, a murderer and by the end a sociopath. Rick's hardening over time is far more natural than Shane's and also comes at a very similar pace to the group. Daryl is almost always seeing things Rick's way for example, especially after season 2. Rick shows he wants to keep everyone happy but will lead and make the hard decisions when needed. Season 5 Rick isn't like season 2 Shane, the difference is in his experience and his motives. Rick genuinely cares about the people around him, Shane only cares about himself and his dreams.
Thats pretty much it. Lori and carl was just a coping mechanism for Shane I don't know why people find this hard to understand. Shane never had anyone before the world became a mess despite rick. World became a mess, he believed Rick died, and Rick's family became his. That feeling of love was his high it was the only thing keeping him sane. Seeing Rick come back was like seeing his own blood brother shit in his cereal.
@@welkingunther4298 this is true but it also sounds like you trying to justify him. Lori didn't have to do any of those things rick still would've been envious towards rick.
I think the main difference between Shane and Rick is that ultimately, Shane is selfish while Rick is selfless. Shane was absolutely correct in the fact that you had to fight to survive and that the world wasn’t what it used to be and you have to adapt, but between him trying to kill Rick and attempting to rape Lori, underneath all of that, he only ever wanted to benefit himself. Rick, by the end of his run, had not only adapted to the world, but had also literally laid down his life to protect those he loved. Something that I truly believe Shane wouldn’t have done.
People keep saying Rick turned into Shane, but Shane was already much worse than Rick would ever be. Shane wasn't just "Do what you have to in order to survive", he was "Take everything for myself and my own pleasure."
I disagree about selfish and selfless, sure Rick was selfless but so was Shane to a degree. Shane sacrificed Odis not only to save himself but to save Carl. He made the best of a bad situation and while it sucked he still did it to save Carl. He killed to walkers in the barn to give a wake up call to Hershel and the group that was selfless and it ultimately showed Hershel and his farm group the truth, he saved Lori and Carl not because he loved them but because it was Rick’s family later on he would fall in love with Lori, he also loved Carl as if he was his own and he did care for the group sadly because Rick came back and it ruined what he was hoping for with Lori and Carl and Shane being unable to break out of that mentality he spiraled out of control.
I think the moment Shane became the “villain” was the moment he looked in the mirror after shaving his head. He saw the monster he needed to become. He knew that for Carl for Lori he’d do the utmost for them even if it meant doing the horrific things. He was an anti-villain cuz his motives were never fully bad they were just rash decisions. He was focused on survival and protecting Carl and Lori
Rick was more rounded and had stated this many times. Safety in numbers. That's how you protect family. Shane didn't understand as he only saw Lori and Carl worth protecting
A really cool aspect of shanes character was how he hounded rick for not being able to do what was needed, but when he had a gun on rick he wouldn't pull the trigger and let rick get close
The comics may’ve been better at a lot of points (Carl lives) but Shane died at the camp at the very beginning. I’m grateful we got to see more of him in the show
I also think that giving Shane a bit more complexity was an upgrade to the comic's rendition of him. He was a lot more of a threat, too; the first real threat Rick's group had aside from walkers.
@@azoniarnl3362 he threatened and compromised the group.... Poor fucking Dale for God sake was afraid for his life. So tell me how he wasn't a threat to the group as a whole? Where's the logic in saying that when it clearly shows in the show.
I think his biggest downside was getting romantically involved with ricks wife and being unable to let it go once he realized his best friend was alive,but I think he is largely a victim of environment and actually started going crazy when Rick was in the hospital and Shane felt so helpless about the situation I think that started breaking him and the apocalypse didn't help
He seemed fine until Rick showed up lol So nah. He had everything he wanted. Lori, Carl and a group he was leading Once Rick came back into the picture his whole world was crushed. That's hard to take I can imagine the emotional rollercoaster of one moment he's entangled with Lori and a father figure to Carl and the next, his best friend is back, removing him for those responsibilities and significance
I think the moment that Shane doomed himself was when Lori said “idk who’s baby this is”. I think he was going to accept what Rick said to him on the road until she said this
YES I agree. In 18 Miles Out even tho Shane was impulsive and showed that he was starting to think of getting rid of Rick, Rick literally PROVED to Shane that he was capable of standing his ground. Once Lori pulled Shane aside and they started talking history that was the moment Shane started TRULY plotting to kill Rick. It wasn’t just a thought of how easy or better it would be, Shane purposefully wanted to kill Rick after that last convo with Lori.
it's so sad because that was lori's way of trying to really empathize with shane and apologize for what she put him through, but all it did was give him hope (unintentionally on lori's part)
Dude thanks so much, you too. I appreciate you commenting and supporting man you’re the first big channel that’s not blown up off shorts but actual hard work that came to support me. Means 10x more and is so much more inspiring to build an audience on my channel too.
Shane had already been steadily going down the path to become a “villain” but in my opinion it all came to a head once he found out about Lori being pregnant with his child, that completely shattered the cracks he was already afflicted with. It is in my opinion that once he heard of the pregnancy he decided he can only trust his own judgment with the safety of “his” family and no one else as he thought it was the only way to keep them safe.
I think Shane was the villain of S2 and the CDC was a fore shadowing on how bad he could go (to assaulting lori which he practically would do anything for) I know a lot of people blame Lori but honestly I think it wasn’t a situation she was expecting to be and Sarah Wayne Callies herself said that Lori wanted Shane to become like the old Shane ( a good friend to rick) but Shane didn’t plan to stop so thats why I feel like there was so much conflict. Great Video!
@@footedthread9315 So what. Being drunk doesn't mean that you completely lose yourself and on top of which, its super irresponsible to be drunk during an apocalypse where the only defense you have are a couple of guys with guns keeping watch(of course you also had the CDC walls but everyone was on edge). He had to leave, his obsession over Carl and Lori was just weird.
@@wingsoficarus1139 true but being drunk really screwed him up and he was not thinking straight. He even owns up to it in S2. He had so much potential and really should have left the group.
I understand that Shane ended up just being ahead of the curve, but his unwillingness to let others adjust made him look crazy. The idea of killing was still very touchy for everyone at that point, and his willingness to do what it takes made him look villainous. Like the scene with Otis I find very interesting, because initially I judge the horrendous action, but then it makes me question what I would've done if I was in his shoes. Would I have risked being eaten alive alongside this guy I just met? I like when shows give us complex moral situations like that to pick apart, and examine.
Although the Otis situation is understandable, him trying to kill Rick is not. Even if you believe Rick can't lead the group, killing him isn't a solution. Not to mention you're literally killing your closest friend because he's "unfit" There is no real logical reasoning behind that decision, it is purely selfishness.
Yeah I think the Otis-situation is less of a turning point than it is a lowering of barriers: a) Shane made a huge sacrifice and wants to be repayed for that trauma by those for whom he made it, b) Shane saw what he could do for those he considered "his" - and instead of really distancing himself from that, he took it as a liberation of sorts.
@@thelegacyofgaming2928 that's exactly what Rick ended up doing to Shane. 'To protect the group'. He selfishly took out Shane. That stunted everyone's acclimation/adaptability. Leading to someone like the governor to be a more prolonged issue. And cause Negan to have such an overbearing presence.
@jonathanjohnson6727 no he had to kill Shane at that point there was no negotiating with shane.. HE WAS GOING TO KILL RICK... So yes he was super justified in killing shane.. the same way michonne killed the governor, the same way Rick killed the prisoner trying to murder him with the zombies and his crowbar.... Your just trying to find something to make Shane's death not justified..
I think the one if not the best representation of Shane's downfall to become the villain is when he's looking at the "lone" walker in the fields indicating his journey alone.
The moment he shot Ottis was the turning point for me. Rick would never do that and that's what makes these two different in their leadership. Rick cares , goes back to the roof for Daryl's brother (a man he doesn't even know), Shane sacrifices a human to clear his path for the supplies
Thats only because rick was a pussy in s1 and 2🤦🏽♂️ in season 6 he deadass told michonne and glenn to leave the other Alexandria people behind if they started slowing them down, shane was fine his only true flaw was his love for lori
@@FancyCat229 Otis shot him ACCIDENTALLY, THROUGH a deer he was shooting at, because Carl was behind the deer and Otis didn't see him at all. I rechecked that scene, and its clear the deer hid Carl from Otis' view. I mean, what were the odds that a kid would be right there, in the middle of the forrest. So, I call bullshit on that being a good reason for Otis to be shot. Or even a reason for Otis to be called dumb. A LOT of grief would have been avoided if Otis had survived instead of Shane.
I still don't think Rick would ever do that. Especially considering Carl's wishes. Hell, he probably wouldn't even do that back in season 5 unless if it was someone endangering the entire group.
@@FancyCat229 Rick was always doing things the hard way, Shane just shot Ottis without hesitation to get it over with. The difference between those two is that Rick would get the supplies AND would come back with Ottis alive
One of the reasons I love this show, especially the first half, is that Rick, Shane, and Governor are the same character. Their stories are affected by the same tragedies, only at various points in the apocalypse. While Rick was hugging his wife and kid at camp, Governor was mourning the loss of his. What Rick became in seasons 4 and 5 is what Governor already was in 3. What Shane knew in season 2, Rick realized in 5. They're all the same character, and they change in the same ways, and it happens gradually over time as life shits on them.
"What Rick became in seasons 4 and 5 is what Governor already was in 3" You definitely watch the show with a poop on your eyes, Governor was a rapist, who kills innocent people, delusional (keeping his zombie daughter), a tyrant, and manipulative person, while season 4 and 5 rick never was a rapist, ultimately only kills those who tried to hurt him or his family, wasn't delusional, and was willing to let his people question his judgement. When people in CZcams comments tries to look smart, they end up looking dumber.
@@motivatedbyvergildantenero2315 Ok while your right about the Governor being far worse theirs no reason to be a jerk about it and call someone dumb. That was unnecessary.
@@davidstratton696 Nah I've had enough of it lol I've seen this interpretation 3 times and I and explained it calmly and now I'm reading this for the hundred times and I'm straight up irritated since I can't even comprehend how people could come up with that interpretation.
@@motivatedbyvergildantenero2315 i think they meant the whole community thing, i don’t think they were implying that rick was as shady as the governor. even though Phillip lied about his true intent on woodbury and it’s people, he did provide medical care, food, hot showers and a home to themselves. he gave off a front that he cared yeah but he could’ve easily done the opposite. i like to think he cared a little bit but, eventually stopped when penny died because he felt like keeping her alive long enough for a cure was for nothing. i think he just wanted a safe comminuted for his daughter if she ever returned to human state.
Just imagine if Rick and Shane were informed that there was a third one in the police chase. They would’ve known and be more aware, Rick would’ve never got shot and would’ve went and done there own things until the apocalypse hit, Rick and Shane would’ve stuck together and been a little more prepared, Shane would’ve never even attempted to get with Lori, Shane would’ve been more concerned for the safety of others instead of putting his lust and envy above all else, Rick would’ve never had a reason to kill Shane, and Vice versa with Shane. And Shane could’ve potentially lived on to become a major leader/piece for the group altogether for the later seasons. The Butterfly effect is a special thing!
This technially makes comic Shane more evil because despite committing less horrendous acts then TV Shane, he knew Rick was alive and still got with Lori so his obsessiveness with her was always around in the comics and in his mind the apocalypse is a damn good way to finally get what he has wanted
I think in the penultimate episode of season 2, Shane had a moment where he went back to normal again if only for a moment. When Lori apologized to him for...more or less everything, thats when Carl came to him and confessed to feeling responsible for Dale's death becauwe he didnt shoot the walker that ultimataly killed him. This is when he has another moment of clarity. Out of pure concern, not for getting back with Lori, not out of trying to replace Rick as Carl's father figure, he went to Rick knowing full well how their relationship was at this point and expressed genuine concern that he needed to talk to Carl about things. He said things like "he needs his dad" and that the Randall thing can wait because of it. However, Rick ultimately shot him down, and this was the last straw and he made the plan to use Randall to kill Rick. It was a short moment of clarity, but I think it was clarity nonetheless. I think we genuinely saw the old Shane again if only for a couple minutes.
He wanted Lori to be at least friends, talking terms with him. I don't think we can take Shanes moment as clarity but hope that Lori still felt feelings for him and that may have just calmed his stress head for awhile
Shame didn't care about Sophia, he didn't really care about anyone in the group outside of Lori & Carl, and in a life/death situation I could see him abandoning them too. He could always get a new woman. His selfishness was the problem, his attitude on the apocalypse and walkers and survival were all right. But that attitude only existed to ultimately serve himself, not for the better of the group. If Rick, or Daryl, or Glenn or anyone else were in Otis's place, they'd get a bullet too. That's why Shane had to go.
Agreed, Shane was the one who felt like he needed to be leader, Shane was the one who felt like only HE can protect Lori and Carl. Hell if he succeeded killing Rick, he would’ve killed Daryl as well because he knew Daryl wasn’t stupid and would’ve smelled his bullshit.
@@Icxvii8 Shane just wanted to be the leader only as long as everyone existed to serve himself & his own interests. Everyone was disposable when it came down to it to save his own skin. He wouldn't put his life on the line for Glenn or Maggie or Daryl or anybody. Lori & Carl sure, but if it came down to him or them, he'd choose himself.
I agree with both of you. The way people are defending him for Otis's murder is pointless. He clearly had a certain plan for everyone in the group, rating them like figures in chess game. He had had Queen (Lori) and King (Carl) in his caretaking, not willing to let them go whatever happened. But the others with Rick, those were pure wooden-like figures to sacrifice. That night in the highschool, it could be anyone of them. Him and Otis could have made it out alive, but that paranoia he had was devouring him faster than any horde of walkers could do. It was necessary to get rid of him. He was no longer a person.
I do think what started making Shane partially not a good guy was when T-dog radios the group for help but Shane tells everyone not to go after them and just leaves T-dog and the rest of the group to die. even against many of the group’s wishes like Lori and Amy who wanted to to and rescue them Shane was already becoming this dictator on not letting anyone leave the camp to go rescue the group that are trapped in the city. He was even like this in Season 2 when he wanted to leave Sofia behind, which if he was still alive there would be fallout within the group, Rick would’ve been the least of his problems.
He always valued self preservation over the good of the group. That’s why Rick kept Shane around even after knowing he was with Lori. He understood you need a village to protect your family.
@@diamond_dogs True but Shane was the type that was afraid to take risks, if he killed Rick, in season 3 he would've never made the bold move to take the prison and the group would still be struggling on the road which eventually they would all get killed by starvation or walkers.
Despite Shane’s faulty actions, Lori is mostly the one who caused Shane and Rick to be pitted against each other, I was still young at the time so I never caught thar but rewatching the old seasons is why I understand Lori is the most hated character in the early show.
@@triples2745 I don't understand how Shane's descent into madness was her fault. She loved Rick more. She's always loved Rick more. She was always going to go back to him. She only got with Shane as a coping mechanism, and even then only because Shane said Rick was dead. To pit one against the other, she would need to show interest to both. But once Rick came back, she never gave Shane ANY positive signal. HE is the one who couldn't live with reality there. How is him being a crazed, entitled control freak HER fault?
@Jasper no he hesitate's through out the scene and which is the reason Rick killed him. He almost gave his gun up to Rick since he was hesitant to kill him which gave Rick the upper hand. He wanted to kill him but couldn't do it.
@@1999_reborn was probably going to since when Rick gives hands him his gun Shane smiles due to he thought he was right. Rick instead of fighting him hands over the gun which made Shane think he still could not fight for the group or his family.
Dale said it well. The new world became a place for someone like Shane to succeed. Shane was able to abandon any morals he had and just do what he needed to survive. Unfortunately he adapted to quick for the others and he wasn't willing to wait for them to adapt. He should have just left with Andrea. Him learning Lori was pregnant and the child was possibly his gave him a reason to stick around and he felt the need to kill Rick and take control.
He didn't adapt to quick. He adapted into irrationality. Snap decisions without consulting others Rick knew the choices, much as Shane did but Rick wanted everyone to agree on it. Shane just wanted everyone to agree with him The other villains of the show were much more patient and clever when it came to dealing with obstacles The governor and Negan were already aware how important it was to be seen as the 'good guy, who would place out a helpful hand and understand the needs of many but plotting malicious ideas to further themselves, more the governor than Negan Shane would have only succeeded if someone else aligned with his ideologies. The governor I doubt would have wanted someone else undermining his authority. We saw what he thought about Rick Negan however would have broken Shane, like he attempted with darly (unsuccessfully) Eventually making him a LT If not, that bat would have swung in his favor
@@ZeonEons By The end of Season 2 Rick was also making decisions. Sure he didnt mind some criticism, or discussion. But make no mistake, he was in charge, and he was making the decisions.
Shane is a 50/50 character in my eyes. I think he had an internal battle when it came to his more evil side. His obsession with lori was really his downfall but elements of the good person he was before remained throughout his whole arc. Despite belittling ricks leadership, opening the barn was necessary even if he done it for mainly lori and carl. He whipped the group into shape and further more changed rick forever after that even if it didnt show straight away. I honestly think without shane, rick wouldn't have brought himself to kill the two guys in the bar in the nebraksa episode and Rick wouldnt have become the leader he did by the end of season 2. As bad as shane was at times he did show his empathectic side with the group. He felt guilty for the death of otis, despite how he felt about the group looking for sophia he still showed empathy for carol by making sure she was okay when he found wandering about by herself. On top of that he challenged hershel about sophia being in the barn for the sake of the group. At times it showed that shane had great leadership but ultimately his hot headedness, inability to think before making certain choices and his obsession with lori lead to his downfall.
@@thelegacyofgaming2928 I do think its kinda weird that Shane would beat the women abuser but then a few days/weeks later (I don't quite remember) he would try to abuse Lori in a way that is on par if not worse then what he seemingly stood againest
I think Shane was meant to be an antithesis to the morals that Rick was trying so hard to cling onto. By season 5 Rick had crossed many of the borders he never thought he'd have to, or at least he excuses other members when they do. However, Shane had some further underlying issues with his emotions because him assaulting Lori and the massacre of the walkers on the farm were steps of careless rage, little empathy to be seen. Rick, while he may lose hope, lose people, hell, even when he loses everything, he still holds onto empathy later on. In fact (SPOILERS) in Rick's later last scene reminiscing on Shane he specifically talks to "Shane" about how he could have stayed but that he went too far, even for e what Rick now was. I think Shane was both a lesson to the group of other greater villains like Negan, an example of what people are capable of without order. Great video, although for me the moment Shane truly snapped was just before the massacre when Lori tells him "No, Rick said not to," just before Rick showed up with a walker. I think it broke any commanding presence Lori or Rick had over him and drove him to kill Rick and TAKE Lori instead of continuing to ask for the kind of respect he believed he deserved.
I think Shane was confused with Rick's calculated demeanor Shane wanted a military type group. Yes sir, no sir. To hell with feelings and morality Rick wanted everyone to embrace it We see in later seasons that both the Governor and Negan failed to lead by this military type communities when resistance was put up in the face of morality Though Negan had his own specific morality scale and he would not have approved of Shane's morality, when it came to children and women. Negan didn't tolerate that behavior from his own people, let alone from a stranger What Shane failed to see in Rick was Rick would end the life of someone that directly threatened the group This was amplified in the scene, after finding hershal, when Rick kills two people in town after they threatened to take the farm Rick didn't even hesitate
Imagine if Shane shot the wrong computer The prof. is like "well... i was going to let you out, but your idiot friend shot the computer needed to unlock the door"
Excellent take! Shane has done some messed up things since nearly the beginning, but it's important to distinguish his 'good' reasons from his selfish/malicious reasons. When he pointed a shotgun at Rick in Season 1 he was pretty much just _fantasizing_ about Rick being out of the picture (again), since from his perspective Rick came back from the dead just as he was starting a relationship with Lori and Carl, and wanted things to go back to how they were when Rick was gone. Pretty selfish, but I don't think he would've pulled the trigger; Rick was still his best friend and he most likely wouldn't get away with it, especially without Lori and Carl resenting him, even if it loojed like an accident. It seems like he was playing a game of 'what if...' and lacked the intention of actually murdering his best friend. When he kills Otis, he doesn't do it out of malice or sick pleasure, but rather he kills him because he *needs* to save Carl, who he views as his own son, and he comes to the realization that his best chance at getting the respirator to Carl is if someone gets left behind. It's a bit disturbing how quickly Shane makes that insanely hard decision with nearly no hesitation, but for what it's worth it's clear that he feels at least a little remorse for doing it in the later episodes. The barn zombie debacle was just Shane simply refusing to make any compromises, showing us how impulsive and violent he can be when other people make decisions that make him uncomfortable, which I'd say is a bad personality trait when you're in a group that makes desicions semi-democratically. The rest of his decisions he makes, that is to fight and eventually conspire to murder Rick, are 100% self-serving and are just meant to fuel his delusion that Lori and Carl belong to him. I don't think Shane ever had what it took to be the head leader of the group, but if he was loyally committed to Rick then he could've easily become his right-hand man (like what Daryl would become), like how Simon was to Negan or Martinez was to The Governor.
I think the scary part is that you could argue that Shane maybe wasn't selfish at all and that he rationalized that he was protecting those he loved. Nearly everything he did could be argued as an attempt to protect Lori and Carl. The barn scene is hard to argue against, keeping that many zombies in a barn that close to the group was dangerous and could have had disastrous ramifications if the zombies got free. Even the attempt to kill Rick could be argued as a genuine attempt to protect the group, as he thought Rick was incapable of leading and protecting the group at that time. Even with that, I think it shows the devolution of Shane from an alright guy to a person so intent to accomplish his goals that he would sacrifice anything and is may be more a commentary on how such a situation can change a person.
@@bwill887 the perspective on Shane all depends on the type of person you are and what you deem as right and wrong. Let’s go down the list. Shane slept with his best friends wife. Protecting ricks family didn’t require Sex. Thats wrong regardless if I’m dead or not. Your my best friend wtf. Rick comes back and Shane wants him dead. That’s wrong. We know the reasons. He also sexually assaulted Lori. Wow u gonna defend that too? Lol next…Shane sacrificed Otis the guy that saved him then he turned around and shot him. Wrong again. There is no justification to it. Now the barn scene, I love that debate. whose barn was it? Not Shane’s. I agree walkers being in a barn is dangerous but the barn was secured and locked. Rick knew the walkers were a threat but there’s different way to go about it knowing that it isn’t your property because realistically if Shane didn’t like it that bad he could have just left. If Shane was in charge he probably would have killed Hershel and took the property. That’s the kind of person he is. Now if you want to defend his actions or agree with em. Then that shows the type of person you are. Are you good or bad? Regardless of the reasons for Shane’s actions. What’s wrong is wrong. Apocalypse or not.
U could very easily argue Shane killing Otis was selfish though I’d say he did it for Lori more than he did Carl, Shane may have said he cared about Carl over and over but at the end of the day I feel like he really just wanted Lori to love him, Shane was most definitely not a kids man over and over again he criticized the group for looking for Sophia not even a day in he was mad at Rick for not moving on. I believe more so Shane thought if he could save Carl Lori would want him more. And it kindve worked because afterwards Lori tells Shane she wants him to stay.
Yo guys I really hope ya'll enjoy this video 🙏🏻♥ I've been putting most of work priority into making these longform videos, I really wanna hit 1 mil this year!! Expect more videos like these including ones talking about big events revolving the show!
it was such a shame that Shane was gone so soon. i mean i liked the whole story with him and understood that he needed to go, but man John Bernthal and Andrew Lincoln together, they need to be in more shows together. their actingg is my favourite thing from season 2
Shane was one of my most favorite characters on the show. Shane actually saw what the world had turned absolutely ruthless so he became ruthless. I think his love for Lori was the catalysis of Shane's mental breakdown. Once he knew she was pregnant he literally goes insane.
Would love to see that same analysis about the Governor, because as I see it he always switches from villian to a dark version of Rick and so on. Even his ambush on military was done to have more resources for his settlement (Remember when Rick crew slaughter whole saviours station for food and supplies) so it would interesting to see
@@hectorbarbossa4403 Well, Rick could become as Governor if same thing happened to him in short term, he almost lose his mind after death of his wife, imagine if Carl turned in biter afterwards
While I think supplies were a factor sure, I think another reason was the military men would've been a threat to his power/position as leader in Woodbury.
@@evillittlebetch Yeah that's also.. but as I say during early on he was basically a dark version of Rick.. but after his daughter get "killed" he just snaps it
Otis was dead already. A "walking" dead. If both are dead, the kid was dead too. Ugly, relentless, but necessary decision only strong men are able to make.
@@halivudestevez2 No, that's how villain's rationalize their evil decisions. Technically, we're all dead the moment we are born, regardless of the zombie virus, so that's no justification for Shane's murder of Otis.
I think the reason for shane's obsession with rick's family was that after all hell broke loose and everything became chaos, he ended up finding a reason to survive and fight for, which was lori and carl. The proof of this was when Shane says that he didn't keep the two alive, but they kept him alive. And Rick's return made him lose his mind, because he ended up taking it away from him. He was a good character, too bad he lost himself 😢
In my opinion, Shane was a normal man, and struggled with Rick's loss. He tried to save Rick in the hospital, and when he couldn't assumed he was dead. Lori found comfort in shane and eventually grew romantic relationship. but when rick came, everything went downhill. But Shane still killed Otis (rip).
@@empireofthewolves9881I think it was just because they saw it as the end of the world. I think Lori wanted someone to hide behind and Shane was strong and he got well with Carl. I dont blame either of them for getting with eachother but I feel bad for Rick obviously
@Empire of the Wolves it wasn’t all Shane’s fault though, it takes two to tango. Plus when he was fixing the lil water tower thing at the farm finally kinda getting over her she pulled him straight back in and made him worse off than ever. I would put more blame on lori if we’re doing that tbh
@@disventuredcamp yeah, but getting over the most important person in their lives is still fckd up, theres no excuse, no matter if its the end of the world, you dont do such thing.
Great video breaking down the steps into madness. There were many crucial moments for Shane in TWD and I agree that the moment he found out about the pregnancy, something inside him snapped. He knew he had to make things safe for Lori because she was carrying his baby. He saw Randall as a threat because Randall could tell his camp where the farm was. It made perfect sense to me to kill Randall, though few understood why. I see the whole Otis sacrifice as a great example of what Shane would do to protect Lori and Carl. One of them wasn't going to make it out and Shane chose himself over someone else as I am sure everyone would do. I don't agree that it's part of his progression towards insanity.
Shane is one of my favorite characters. He was just ahead of the curve. He was the only one in the first two seasons that saw what the world was now, and he knew what actually had to be done to survive. He did do a lot of shitty stuff and if it weren’t for his obsession with Lori I think we could of saw a power duo of Rick and Shane into the later seasons.
Depends on what you regard as "the curve". He was physically capable and the world ending and bringing forward the "survival of the fittest" mentality, was the perfect situation for an asshole like him to go nuts and have fun while also using the state of the world as an excuse. It's shown time and time again - every chance he got to serve himself, he took. He may have helped the group but his hidden intentions were for the others to view him as a leader and idolize him. Soon as someone was in a gloomy situation they were as good as dead meat to him, Lori and Carl included. Rick managed to both adapt and keep his humanity, even when he went overboard he was always around for his group as a person, always helped keep morale up. That's Shane kept pestering Rick about not having the balls to be as ruthless as need-be when push came to shove, it's all he had to show for himself by the end. It was all about dick-measuring, who's the "bigger man". Unstable and emotional people with weak egos like him never make it for long enough. Someone else other than Rick or from another group would sooner or later snap or leave him to the crows.
Rewatching TWD for the third time with my sibling, and I'm on S2. Damn I miss Shane but he had to keep doing the most for Lori. And she didn't help either 💀
I will never forgive her when he was about to leave and finally let it go then here she comes and put that BS in his ear then immediately turn on Rick after she finds out Rick killed him instead
@@Ares99999 Its not Lori's fault, Shane has been seen to be extremely selfish and in my opinion, would've abandoned Lori if it meant his survival (if he never died from Rick). Plus, Lori probably was doing Shane as a coping mechanism as he was the only real person that she actually really knew in their group. I mean, how would you cope if you found out there's a zombie apocalypse and that there was a chance that everyone you love could be dead?
has anyone else noticed that as long as shane has something to live for he isn't ruthless in his survival? before the fall he was fine because he had everything, during the fall he slowly lost everything and slowly became more ruthless with lori being basically the only thing he had, when rick took back lori he became more ruthless while he kept trying to get back with her, when lori made sure he knew she wasn't going to be with him he knew he lost everything and didn't care what he had to do to survive or get what he wanted. when he started taking an interest in andrea he had something going for him again but not enough to bring him back to how he was so he remained ruthless until he ended up getting himself killed.
He became the villain when he tried to kill Rick just to make Lori and Carl his family. His obsession made him a villain. But his survival mindset was way ahead of everybody, Bro is already on season 11 while everyone is on season 2 lol
No, he wasn't. Season 5, 6 at best. Except he never would have accepted Alexandria, never would have tried to help it grow, never would have formed the Coalition, and certainly wouldn't have become a figure of unity. Season 2 Shane would have looked like a raging lunatic to everyone at season 7+. He might have been ahead of the curve survival-wise (and that, by complete accident, it just happened that his crazy aligned with what was needed at the time), but he got surpassed, and was trailing behind characters on other aspects since the beginning.
Even though you posted this around the time I was on the Shane season, it feels forever ago already lol. I'm now in mid s10 and man how far have things gone
the part that reminds me the most and represents shanne as a villain is the scene where the camera just focuses on her face and he starts to get that attentive and at the same time crazy look as if she had snorted some magic dust
@@daddyshome275 and that's a fact bro, Mr Chad your point and also mine because in my point of view Lori often turned the head of shanne against rick and that ended up getting everything out of hand, like without Lori putting shit in shanne's mind against rick, shanne would be a good person and a brother to Rick
I mean he was definitely a villain, but at the same time, he was right about a lot of things involving survival. I sometimes wish I could imagine a version of this show where Shane had survived a lot longer, and could've just kept a level head or something. It would've been awesome to see him go up against the governor, or the terminus people, or Negan.
shane vs Negan would of been awesome, i could EASILY see Shane turning on Rick and becoming Negans number 2 and using that power to bring Lori (who he would of kept alive since unlike Rick he didnt want to leave the camp at every possible opportunity) and Carl over the Negans camp as for Lori dying to surgery, Shane would of killed whoever it took to make sure that didnt happen, thats been his mindset since season 1
@@backtrakk2121 Lori died because her baby was probably breaching, causing all the blood but lack of dilation. Hershel, a vet, most likely wouldn’t have been able to do much. Also, despite her flaws, I don’t think she would’ve left Rick for Shane. Particularly not if he joined Negan. You know, the guy with multiple concubines who smashes peoples faces in with bats and burns them with irons. Even if not for Rick, she wouldn’t want to put her kids in that position.
@@backtrakk2121 I disagree. Shane would've remained loyal to the group for the most part, despite his ability to turn on Rick. He would've had enough respect for Glenn to fight to defend his legacy (mainly being Maggie, and their son).
We are all like Shane... we have this hidden darkness when there are no rules or laws some people will adapt faster I do understand shanes points of view and Rick did become like him later down the road AMC did a great job with how they made him play this character
I always thought of Shane becoming a villain after he killed Otis but you had a lot of good point in this video because he did show a lot of remorse and he still showed care for Rick even after killing otis but I just think the writers know what they were doing when they had him shave his head and I feel like him shaving his head is just really symbolic kindve of him shifting as a character
I think the thing that makes Shane's death such a sore point for so many people is that he never reached any point in which he was past redemption. Shane wasn't evil, he had mental health issues and with the exception of his conflict with Lori and Rick he was dealing with them in the healthiest way he could in his environment. If Lori hadn't told Shane to stay in season 2 he would've left and likely found himself in a better environment to deal with his issues.
Shane is a great character and Jon really portrayed him well. I wonder how he would've been had he lived longer. I think Shane really did have a good heart, but his never ending love, or obsession really, for Lori is unfortunately what got him killed. One thing you forget though (I think) - how he beat Ed almost to death for hitting Carol. I don't praise violence but I was really glad to see someone finally did something about Ed's abusive behaviour. The girls at that camp tried to obviously get him to stop, but seeing the way Shane literally beat some sense into him kinda made me happy.
This show started so well. And even though season 2 was spread out across 13 episodes instead of 6, it was still a joy to watch. Can't say that to any of episode starting S7
Shane didn't know for sure that Rick was dead he simply chose to believe it. He also never told Lori that he left Rick alive in the hospital. We know he listened for Ricks heartbeat and he tells Lori he didn't hear anything but Ricks heart was obviously still beating. It's pretty good writing actually because a guy like Shane would choose to believe his own lie for his own benefit. I would have given him an evil point for that because his entire relationship with Lori was based on a lie.
@@HubbaBubba768 how much more certain could shane have been? He check for a pulse, and his breathing and didn't get anything..Even if he assumed rick was alive rick would still be in a coma without any medical equipment to treat him, assuming shane could escape dragging ricks body out with soldiers and walkers alike after him. Shanes ignorance isn't willful, the information could get get was limited due to the situation.
I loved Shane and his character is loved because he was such a developed character so early on and knew how it had to be. But none the less I’m much happier I followed Ricky grimes through the journey. Woulda been cool to see his character longer
There was a scene cut during production where Rick discovered after Shane's death, that the gun Shane had drawn on him was never loaded. he was never going to kill Rick, he was gonna make Rick kill him.
The answer is never. He was exactly right all the time. Even his emotional outbursts were justified. Betrayed, undermined, ignored, argued with until proven right or having to prove himself right. Shane was the unsung hero of the series. If Rick had listened to Shane his family would have lived.
Shane was a pretty good introductory character into the madness Walking Dead would lead down into. He showed the power level they would be up against. He was a mixed bag of necessary violence, the conflict of human relations all into one each being piecemeal and more explored on individaul characters throughout the series.
The reason why Shane decided to kill Rick and not in the forest, is because he was too close to the camp. If they heard the gunshot they’ll be quick to discover what Shane did. And Lori made it clear that she didn’t want any drama between best-friends. She needed support at the beginning and no one can blame her for that, instead of keeping up the affair she ended it, and when Otis was sacrificed the guilt ate him up, but it made him realize that there’s a possibility that he can kill Rick without anyone knowing. And when Rick and Shane were having their final fight, he wanted to kill Rick. But it felt different from Otis, he actually cared for Rick but turned crazy because he knew he’ll never have a good ending.
He's the first character who's death actually affected me... I felt there was so much more they could do with the character... But I completely respected their decision.
I think he hoth was ahead of his time but he was also very weal mentally. He had the skills and decisiveness that a zombie survivor needs, but he also held grudges and was emotionally weak, things that a survivor needs to bury deep inside him. Which is exactly what Rick did after Shane died.
I always saw Shane as the real truth of what would happen to us in that situation. No grand speeches about persevering or staying alive, just a cold bitter man who saw nothing but death and destruction. The others saw a light at the end of the tunnel, but all he saw was the end.
And he was right. If Walking Dead actually happens somehow then that is actually the end. You can’t make a society when everyone who dies becomes a zombie that will kill you or your friends and family. There is no way humanity would cooperate long enough to find a cure(if there is one) with no laws or civilization.
Great video on Shane 👏, can you do a video on Lori, I get she’s a mix on walking dead fans and a lot of people not realize is that when she told Rick that Shane was dangerous and told him to kill him, she wasn’t upset about his death as mush in the finale in season 2 it was when Rick said “Carl putt him down” and that’s why she was mad at Rick for, that Carl finish the job and Rick didn’t expect to feel as bad that Carl a young boy had to put him down to save him, if Rick just kill him their while he was transforming to a walker then Carl wouldn’t have took the shot and grow become more cold when it comes to killing walkers or people if he knew them.
So "fun" detail. Shane actually shaved his head because (if I remember correctly) Otis pulled out a chunk of Shane's hair and Shane either couldn't stand the reminder of what he did or didn't want anyone to ask questions about it. But the problem is when he shaved his hair he had no guard against all the head rubbing, which slowly drove him mad.
I'm so tired of hearing people say Rick turned into Shane in later seasons. He absolutely did not. Rick did some very rough and wicked shit, but every single thing he did was to protect him and his. Shane actively tried to take things away from other people. There is a MASSIVE difference.
I think it honestly was the very moment he first laid eyes on Rick in Season one, episode three. His look of bewilderment at Rick being alive is only masking his immediate anger and resentment. Watch it closely: he never once smiled at Rick. His exact expression was if he was saying,”HOW is he still alive?”
Honestly Shane assulting Lori should have instantly made him a villian (though I know that would make for a much shorter and boring video) there is absolutly no excuse for what he did in the old world and the apocalypse, and the worst part was that this was pretty early on, it didn't even take a lot for him to sink as low as SA
Stumbled across this video and I just want to throw out there that I think I would've liked the alternative ending that was planned for Shane's death that in my opinion would've made a better conclusion; from the wiki and I quote, "When Shane would have came back as a walker, Rick (having thrown his gun away), would have picked up Shane's gun to shoot him. When attempting to pull the trigger, Rick would come to the realization that Shane never put any ammo into his gun, and must've brought Rick out there to have him kill him, forcing Rick to finally be more like Shane"
How would that have been better? Shane would still be dead. This scene shows that Rick was right: Shane would have tried again one day. Explain what's wrong with that.
Shane had a great philosophy when he talked about having to fight to survive, and needing to kill to protect whats yours, but his actions are what compromised him and negated all of his ideas. Him attempting to kill Rick multiple times and even sexually assaulting Lori completely outweighed all of the good thoughts and intentions he had.
Genuine question when did he SA lori?
@@beoe the last ep of season 1
@@AlterExo_ oh shoot yeah sorry
I blame Lori for Shane going nuts. She lead him on hard when she told him she didn’t know who’s the baby was. She kept Shane as a plan b for a “just incase my husband dies.” Gross af
@@deathbymazda Lori is a whole other can of worms tbh.
I've always seen Shane as the villain of season 2. Rick at his worst never tried to rape, never killed a member of the group, never manipulated the group with a scenario like the Randall one and never tried to kill his friends.
Shane was drunk when he assaulted lori, Otis wasn't a part of the group, (he was only a part of the farm group) Shane killed randall for the sake of the group, He wasn't gonna kill rick, he lost everything so he didn't care if he would die, he made rick become him in a way.
@@footedthread9315 him being drunk doesn't make it okay. Being drunk lowers inhibitions, it simply means that he was more willing to do what he already wanted to do.
Otis was a member of the group as were Hershel, Maggie, Beth, etc. Even if he wasn't though, Rick never slaughtered an innocent person to save himself.
The problem wasn't so much that Shane killed Randall, although that was bad on its own as the group had decided to free him as they should've, innocent until proven guilty. We don't know if Randall would've tried to kill them. The bigger problem was he manipulated the entire group to make them think Randall escaped so he could spread people and then eventually kill Rick.
Of course he was gonna kill Rick. Look in his eyes in season 1 when he thinks about shooting Rick, he legitimately considered it and things had only gotten 100 times worse. That and a shot goes off from Shanes gun when Rick stabs him. If Shane wanted to die then why shoot at the guy doing it.
Sorry, but people who defend Shane have to defend rape, murder and rewrite history to make him look better.
@@anunknownentity1637 the very bottom is false, I do not defend rape, i'm defending his character, you have some pretty valid points, but shane Made it all look like he was gonna kill rick, but he wasn't, he just wanted rick to be like him, And rick killed a savior Brutally before somewhere before carls death (he slaughtered an innocent man to save himself) he left andrew to die in the prison hoping walkers would eat him, Hershel states many times in season two to rick, "i want YOUR group gone" and andrea and shane both wanted randall dead, but shane did it, in season 1 shane THOUGHT about shooting rick, but did he pull the trigger? No, he did not. Also before otis dies, shane offered himself before shooting otis, he didn't KILL otis, He GOT him killed.
@@footedthread9315 where in the show did Shane ever say that he did what he did because he wanted Rick to be like him? He didn't, you're reading that into that scene because it makes Shane look better. The truth is Shane wanted Rick gone and he saw his chance so he took it. He wouldn't have tried to shoot him if he just wanted to die.
Yeah Rick killed a Savior, so? Do you really think Otis and the Saviors are equal in terms of moral righteousness?
Andrew wasn't innocent? He was a criminal that tried to attack Rick and Rick chose not to save him. You could still argue this was bad but it isn't the same as shooting an innocent man in the leg purposely. Furthermore, Andrew dispels any notion of being a good person when he tries to kill the whole group and succeeds with T-Dpg and Lori. Axel and Oscar also attest to him being a bad person.
Hershel always told Rick he wanted them gone eventually and Rick was always biding for more time. There was never a moment where Hershel said leave and Rick refused.
Andrea didn't want Randall dead, she was literally the only person to side with Dale.
Since you brought one of my points about Shane up again I'll respond. I never said season 1 Shane tried to kill Rick, I said he considered it. If at that point Shane was willing to consider that as a possibility, how much more so a lot later when things have escalated. And it's not like I'm reading this in either. We see Shane try to kill Rick at the end of season 2 and I brought up season 1 to show it was a natural progression of where Shane was.
You also said you don't defend rape yet you gave Shane a pass because he was drunk which is bad, very bad. Being drunk doesn't make you do the opposite of what you want deep down, it brings it to the surface.
@@anunknownentity1637 listen, I like Shane's Character, I never said I liked his actions, Think what you want, have your opinions, thats it.
Jon Bernthal played Shane sympathetically really well, in fact he had his own ending in mind for the character where instead of trying to kill Rick he was trying to get Rick to kill him at that final scene because he was miserable and because he wanted Rick to get that killer instinct but they didn't go for it.
Nah and you can see why. Shane's actions didn't align to him being miserable and wanting Rick to make the hard choices, he was infatuated with Lori
In previous episodes and scenes, it was Rick making the harder choices
1. Shooting the walker girl (Shane froze)
2. Killing the guys in the town (possibly the first living Rick killed after they mentioned about taking the farm)
3. Killing Shane (Shane got emotionally manipulated by Rick, just so Rick could get in close and stab him quietly not to draw in walkers) Shane was already pistols at dawn
Shane was prepared to lose Carol and Daryl by giving up the search (and whoever else)
Shane wouldn't have attempted to find or save Hershel (The only person with experience in medical care)
Carol emotionally grief stricken seeing her daughter become a walker might have tried to embrace her or get bitten (point is here that Shane froze, while Rick didn't)
True
Shane was a “bad” guy immediately when he overstepped the boundaries of the bro relationship. When they thought he was dead it was OK , but Shane literally tried killing Rick for Lori , which is , ultimately , pathetic .
You know what’s pathetic? Trying to act like you don’t have your human primal instinct of fighting other males for mates, especially ones that are yours and suddenly were taken from you. So, ultimately, you’re pathetic.
Lori became his woman, there's no more bro relationship at this point. Of course he didn't give up on Lori, it was pretty impossible
@@Mak7evenno Shane was just pathetic and a simp he chose a woman over his best friend like their was plenty of other woman he could’ve gotten with like Andrea remember that little car sex they had?
@@Mak7even how can you think like that xD
@@sayonara._ because they were in a relationship...
S1 & S2 characters were so fully fleshed out and well written. I know more about Dale than I know about some who have been on the show for years
RIP Dale, the groups humanity died with him & later Glenn.
@@unfortunately_fortunate2000 Once Glenn died I stopped watching. Rick and the actor are fantastic, but that alone isn't enough to keep me watching
My thoughts exactly. I rewatch the first 3 seasons over and over, but I lost interest after the prison, really. Those days when it was just the Atlanta group and the Greene family were just so golden.
@@sagecho2003 I’ll die behind thinking this could have been so much more if Darabont had made the other seasons as well
@Bonk I’d say the show is definitely worth watching until season 6. The Terminus and On The Road arcs give some of the best moments of the show in my opinion. The writing takes a nose dive after they make it to Alexandria
Shane deserved more screen time in TWD.
He got even less in the comics lol, he didn't even make it to the farm
@@Jadedseason 😅It seems that in the comics Carl didn't spare Shanne in the forest already Dale....
Yeah he does
No he doesn't, Shane served his purpose and that was to make Rick strong.
They shouldn't of killed him off
he shoud of just left the group
3:57 bro added 15% because he went bald 💀
That's always a natural indicator for malefic intent.
@@keepgoing7533 waltuh
He had his inner Heisenberg released 😂
LMAOO FR
Shane and Dale were the first two extremes of the start of the outbreak. One was more stuck in the past civilization manners, while the other was in the extremes of surviving.
Rick was the middle ground that swayed from one side to the other.
True
Rick wasn’t even close to the middle. He was closer to dale. And Shane was 100% right had Shane took charge instead of Rick the entire group would still be alive
@@SchmuelGoldstein-mj8rkShane didn’t care about the group unlike rick he only cared for Lori and Carl
@@Getstr8cash and? That’s literally the smartest way to live during that kind of situation. Group is only useful until it’s not.
@@SchmuelGoldstein-mj8rk
"Group is only useful until it’s not."
"Shane took charge instead of Rick, the entire group would still be alive"
Pick one.
Also, Jon Bernthal is a damn good actor, yes Shane's character development was perfect but not every actor could have delivered it like Jon did.
A lot of the early show characters were perfectly cast
You can literally SMELL tha jealousy when he's staring at Rick. Jon was amazing as Shane. The casting in TWD is a huge W
@@MrKing-771 agreed like glen
Shane was an awesome character, the series first villain.
The first cast, hershel and family included was absolutely perfect, amazing stuff
His “do anything” mindset wasn’t about protecting Lori and Carl, it was about protecting what he thinks is HIS. “Lori and Carl are mine” is what he thought. He spent a long while in denial that Lori and Carl weren’t his. So essentially when he learned that Lori was pregnant with a baby that really was his flesh of course he snapped. The denial wasn’t even in the picture anymore, it just became “Rick is going to take away Lori, Carl, and MY KID” and he’d literally do anything to take them back.
Absolutely on point. Didn't see your comment and wrote basically the same ^^
Lori constantly nagging him about not to look at her or her son, yet whining about his decision to leave. Then threw him the curveball about being pregnant to essentially lock him into staying while feeding into his craziness by constantly saying thank you so much for all you've done, but stay away from me (but don't leave the group). Lori is the siren that got him killed.
This! I've never understood why people don't see Shane as a villain and also why they think Rick becomes Shane because of this. Shane shows himself very early in season 1 to be very self centered and needs to feel powerful, he doesn't care about the group but about how they view him. His behaviour gets worse as people turn against him and favour Rick more. He's shown to be a rapist, a murderer and by the end a sociopath.
Rick's hardening over time is far more natural than Shane's and also comes at a very similar pace to the group. Daryl is almost always seeing things Rick's way for example, especially after season 2. Rick shows he wants to keep everyone happy but will lead and make the hard decisions when needed. Season 5 Rick isn't like season 2 Shane, the difference is in his experience and his motives. Rick genuinely cares about the people around him, Shane only cares about himself and his dreams.
Thats pretty much it. Lori and carl was just a coping mechanism for Shane I don't know why people find this hard to understand. Shane never had anyone before the world became a mess despite rick. World became a mess, he believed Rick died, and Rick's family became his. That feeling of love was his high it was the only thing keeping him sane. Seeing Rick come back was like seeing his own blood brother shit in his cereal.
@@welkingunther4298 this is true but it also sounds like you trying to justify him. Lori didn't have to do any of those things rick still would've been envious towards rick.
I think the main difference between Shane and Rick is that ultimately, Shane is selfish while Rick is selfless. Shane was absolutely correct in the fact that you had to fight to survive and that the world wasn’t what it used to be and you have to adapt, but between him trying to kill Rick and attempting to rape Lori, underneath all of that, he only ever wanted to benefit himself. Rick, by the end of his run, had not only adapted to the world, but had also literally laid down his life to protect those he loved. Something that I truly believe Shane wouldn’t have done.
well said
People keep saying Rick turned into Shane, but Shane was already much worse than Rick would ever be. Shane wasn't just "Do what you have to in order to survive", he was "Take everything for myself and my own pleasure."
This comment is right on the money.
No, I don't think so
I disagree about selfish and selfless, sure Rick was selfless but so was Shane to a degree. Shane sacrificed Odis not only to save himself but to save Carl. He made the best of a bad situation and while it sucked he still did it to save Carl. He killed to walkers in the barn to give a wake up call to Hershel and the group that was selfless and it ultimately showed Hershel and his farm group the truth, he saved Lori and Carl not because he loved them but because it was Rick’s family later on he would fall in love with Lori, he also loved Carl as if he was his own and he did care for the group sadly because Rick came back and it ruined what he was hoping for with Lori and Carl and Shane being unable to break out of that mentality he spiraled out of control.
I think the moment Shane became the “villain” was the moment he looked in the mirror after shaving his head. He saw the monster he needed to become. He knew that for Carl for Lori he’d do the utmost for them even if it meant doing the horrific things. He was an anti-villain cuz his motives were never fully bad they were just rash decisions. He was focused on survival and protecting Carl and Lori
Rick was more rounded and had stated this many times. Safety in numbers. That's how you protect family. Shane didn't understand as he only saw Lori and Carl worth protecting
A really cool aspect of shanes character was how he hounded rick for not being able to do what was needed, but when he had a gun on rick he wouldn't pull the trigger and let rick get close
+ put Sofia down
Rick adapted while Shane was unstable.
He also froze when Sophia came out the barn.
He was hotheaded and too weak to control his emotions, which was his downfall.
The original scene the gun was unloaded and Shane wanted Rick to take control and kill him
@@microwave4928 Yeah but that's not the scene we have so it doesn't count
The comics may’ve been better at a lot of points (Carl lives) but Shane died at the camp at the very beginning. I’m grateful we got to see more of him in the show
I also think that giving Shane a bit more complexity was an upgrade to the comic's rendition of him. He was a lot more of a threat, too; the first real threat Rick's group had aside from walkers.
@@boop004 He was never a danger to the group, only a danger to Rick and Lori.
@@azoniarnl3362 he threatened and compromised the group.... Poor fucking Dale for God sake was afraid for his life. So tell me how he wasn't a threat to the group as a whole? Where's the logic in saying that when it clearly shows in the show.
@@fragglefknrock7568 oh please dale was the WORST character in the show who gives
@@HMSvince77 that's your argument? Lmao XD so you agree but don't wanna just plainly say that. Cool.
I think his biggest downside was getting romantically involved with ricks wife and being unable to let it go once he realized his best friend was alive,but I think he is largely a victim of environment and actually started going crazy when Rick was in the hospital and Shane felt so helpless about the situation
I think that started breaking him and the apocalypse didn't help
He seemed fine until Rick showed up lol
So nah. He had everything he wanted. Lori, Carl and a group he was leading
Once Rick came back into the picture his whole world was crushed. That's hard to take
I can imagine the emotional rollercoaster of one moment he's entangled with Lori and a father figure to Carl and the next, his best friend is back, removing him for those responsibilities and significance
"There ain't nothing easy about taking another mans life no matter how little value it had"
That's an amazing quote.
Rick "hold my beer" 😂
I think the moment that Shane doomed himself was when Lori said “idk who’s baby this is”. I think he was going to accept what Rick said to him on the road until she said this
That is my wife
That is my son
...That is my Child
*Shane turns swallowing that huge pill*
YES I agree. In 18 Miles Out even tho Shane was impulsive and showed that he was starting to think of getting rid of Rick, Rick literally PROVED to Shane that he was capable of standing his ground. Once Lori pulled Shane aside and they started talking history that was the moment Shane started TRULY plotting to kill Rick. It wasn’t just a thought of how easy or better it would be, Shane purposefully wanted to kill Rick after that last convo with Lori.
it's so sad because that was lori's way of trying to really empathize with shane and apologize for what she put him through, but all it did was give him hope (unintentionally on lori's part)
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Shane had already been steadily going down the path to become a “villain” but in my opinion it all came to a head once he found out about Lori being pregnant with his child, that completely shattered the cracks he was already afflicted with. It is in my opinion that once he heard of the pregnancy he decided he can only trust his own judgment with the safety of “his” family and no one else as he thought it was the only way to keep them safe.
If he had lived 4 more years, he'd been the biggest villain in the series.. "Negan? Cute little puppy, Hold my Lori" 😂😂
I think Shane was the villain of S2 and the CDC was a fore shadowing on how bad he could go (to assaulting lori which he practically would do anything for) I know a lot of people blame Lori but honestly I think it wasn’t a situation she was expecting to be and Sarah Wayne Callies herself said that Lori wanted Shane to become like the old Shane ( a good friend to rick) but Shane didn’t plan to stop so thats why I feel like there was so much conflict. Great Video!
watching your child calling your friend daddy isn't an option.
@@Homophobic_racist_sexist cheating on your best friend is literally a crime
Shane was drunk
@@footedthread9315 So what. Being drunk doesn't mean that you completely lose yourself and on top of which, its super irresponsible to be drunk during an apocalypse where the only defense you have are a couple of guys with guns keeping watch(of course you also had the CDC walls but everyone was on edge).
He had to leave, his obsession over Carl and Lori was just weird.
@@wingsoficarus1139 true but being drunk really screwed him up and he was not thinking straight. He even owns up to it in S2. He had so much potential and really should have left the group.
I understand that Shane ended up just being ahead of the curve, but his unwillingness to let others adjust made him look crazy. The idea of killing was still very touchy for everyone at that point, and his willingness to do what it takes made him look villainous. Like the scene with Otis I find very interesting, because initially I judge the horrendous action, but then it makes me question what I would've done if I was in his shoes. Would I have risked being eaten alive alongside this guy I just met? I like when shows give us complex moral situations like that to pick apart, and examine.
Although the Otis situation is understandable, him trying to kill Rick is not. Even if you believe Rick can't lead the group, killing him isn't a solution. Not to mention you're literally killing your closest friend because he's "unfit" There is no real logical reasoning behind that decision, it is purely selfishness.
@@thelegacyofgaming2928 I ain't got to that part of that video yet before writing that LMAO
Yeah I think the Otis-situation is less of a turning point than it is a lowering of barriers: a) Shane made a huge sacrifice and wants to be repayed for that trauma by those for whom he made it, b) Shane saw what he could do for those he considered "his" - and instead of really distancing himself from that, he took it as a liberation of sorts.
@@thelegacyofgaming2928 that's exactly what Rick ended up doing to Shane. 'To protect the group'. He selfishly took out Shane. That stunted everyone's acclimation/adaptability. Leading to someone like the governor to be a more prolonged issue. And cause Negan to have such an overbearing presence.
@jonathanjohnson6727 no he had to kill Shane at that point there was no negotiating with shane.. HE WAS GOING TO KILL RICK... So yes he was super justified in killing shane.. the same way michonne killed the governor, the same way Rick killed the prisoner trying to murder him with the zombies and his crowbar....
Your just trying to find something to make Shane's death not justified..
I think the one if not the best representation of Shane's downfall to become the villain is when he's looking at the "lone" walker in the fields indicating his journey alone.
That's funny. I said the same thing a few months ago when I was showing the show to my lady. Aha
Honestly the episode where Rick and Shane fight at that school yard is one of my favorite episodes of the whole show.
The moment he shot Ottis was the turning point for me. Rick would never do that and that's what makes these two different in their leadership. Rick cares , goes back to the roof for Daryl's brother (a man he doesn't even know), Shane sacrifices a human to clear his path for the supplies
Thats only because rick was a pussy in s1 and 2🤦🏽♂️ in season 6 he deadass told michonne and glenn to leave the other Alexandria people behind if they started slowing them down, shane was fine his only true flaw was his love for lori
Supplies to save a boy who is like a son to him because that dumbass Otis shot him
@@FancyCat229 Otis shot him ACCIDENTALLY, THROUGH a deer he was shooting at, because Carl was behind the deer and Otis didn't see him at all. I rechecked that scene, and its clear the deer hid Carl from Otis' view. I mean, what were the odds that a kid would be right there, in the middle of the forrest.
So, I call bullshit on that being a good reason for Otis to be shot. Or even a reason for Otis to be called dumb. A LOT of grief would have been avoided if Otis had survived instead of Shane.
I still don't think Rick would ever do that. Especially considering Carl's wishes. Hell, he probably wouldn't even do that back in season 5 unless if it was someone endangering the entire group.
@@FancyCat229 Rick was always doing things the hard way, Shane just shot Ottis without hesitation to get it over with. The difference between those two is that Rick would get the supplies AND would come back with Ottis alive
One of the reasons I love this show, especially the first half, is that Rick, Shane, and Governor are the same character. Their stories are affected by the same tragedies, only at various points in the apocalypse. While Rick was hugging his wife and kid at camp, Governor was mourning the loss of his. What Rick became in seasons 4 and 5 is what Governor already was in 3. What Shane knew in season 2, Rick realized in 5. They're all the same character, and they change in the same ways, and it happens gradually over time as life shits on them.
Rick and the governor are nowhere near the same character. Just Bc they experienced loss (just like everyone else in the show) doesn’t mean anything.
"What Rick became in seasons 4 and 5 is what Governor already was in 3" You definitely watch the show with a poop on your eyes, Governor was a rapist, who kills innocent people, delusional (keeping his zombie daughter), a tyrant, and manipulative person, while season 4 and 5 rick never was a rapist, ultimately only kills those who tried to hurt him or his family, wasn't delusional, and was willing to let his people question his judgement.
When people in CZcams comments tries to look smart, they end up looking dumber.
@@motivatedbyvergildantenero2315 Ok while your right about the Governor being far worse theirs no reason to be a jerk about it and call someone dumb. That was unnecessary.
@@davidstratton696 Nah I've had enough of it lol I've seen this interpretation 3 times and I and explained it calmly and now I'm reading this for the hundred times and I'm straight up irritated since I can't even comprehend how people could come up with that interpretation.
@@motivatedbyvergildantenero2315 i think they meant the whole community thing, i don’t think they were implying that rick was as shady as the governor. even though Phillip lied about his true intent on woodbury and it’s people, he did provide medical care, food, hot showers and a home to themselves. he gave off a front that he cared yeah but he could’ve easily done the opposite. i like to think he cared a little bit but, eventually stopped when penny died because he felt like keeping her alive long enough for a cure was for nothing. i think he just wanted a safe comminuted for his daughter if she ever returned to human state.
Just imagine if Rick and Shane were informed that there was a third one in the police chase. They would’ve known and be more aware, Rick would’ve never got shot and would’ve went and done there own things until the apocalypse hit, Rick and Shane would’ve stuck together and been a little more prepared, Shane would’ve never even attempted to get with Lori, Shane would’ve been more concerned for the safety of others instead of putting his lust and envy above all else, Rick would’ve never had a reason to kill Shane, and Vice versa with Shane. And Shane could’ve potentially lived on to become a major leader/piece for the group altogether for the later seasons. The Butterfly effect is a special thing!
This technially makes comic Shane more evil because despite committing less horrendous acts then TV Shane, he knew Rick was alive and still got with Lori so his obsessiveness with her was always around in the comics and in his mind the apocalypse is a damn good way to finally get what he has wanted
Yeah yeah Schrodinger's cat
I thought it was called a domino effect?
I think in the penultimate episode of season 2, Shane had a moment where he went back to normal again if only for a moment. When Lori apologized to him for...more or less everything, thats when Carl came to him and confessed to feeling responsible for Dale's death becauwe he didnt shoot the walker that ultimataly killed him. This is when he has another moment of clarity. Out of pure concern, not for getting back with Lori, not out of trying to replace Rick as Carl's father figure, he went to Rick knowing full well how their relationship was at this point and expressed genuine concern that he needed to talk to Carl about things. He said things like "he needs his dad" and that the Randall thing can wait because of it. However, Rick ultimately shot him down, and this was the last straw and he made the plan to use Randall to kill Rick. It was a short moment of clarity, but I think it was clarity nonetheless. I think we genuinely saw the old Shane again if only for a couple minutes.
He wanted Lori to be at least friends, talking terms with him. I don't think we can take Shanes moment as clarity but hope that Lori still felt feelings for him and that may have just calmed his stress head for awhile
Shame didn't care about Sophia, he didn't really care about anyone in the group outside of Lori & Carl, and in a life/death situation I could see him abandoning them too. He could always get a new woman.
His selfishness was the problem, his attitude on the apocalypse and walkers and survival were all right. But that attitude only existed to ultimately serve himself, not for the better of the group. If Rick, or Daryl, or Glenn or anyone else were in Otis's place, they'd get a bullet too. That's why Shane had to go.
Agreed, Shane was the one who felt like he needed to be leader, Shane was the one who felt like only HE can protect Lori and Carl. Hell if he succeeded killing Rick, he would’ve killed Daryl as well because he knew Daryl wasn’t stupid and would’ve smelled his bullshit.
@@Icxvii8 Shane just wanted to be the leader only as long as everyone existed to serve himself & his own interests. Everyone was disposable when it came down to it to save his own skin. He wouldn't put his life on the line for Glenn or Maggie or Daryl or anybody. Lori & Carl sure, but if it came down to him or them, he'd choose himself.
I agree with both of you. The way people are defending him for Otis's murder is pointless. He clearly had a certain plan for everyone in the group, rating them like figures in chess game. He had had Queen (Lori) and King (Carl) in his caretaking, not willing to let them go whatever happened. But the others with Rick, those were pure wooden-like figures to sacrifice. That night in the highschool, it could be anyone of them. Him and Otis could have made it out alive, but that paranoia he had was devouring him faster than any horde of walkers could do. It was necessary to get rid of him. He was no longer a person.
@@Icxvii8 except i think he would not succeed in killing Daryl i think he would try and Daryl would kill Shane instead
@@hectorbarbossa4403 how? Shane is a trained cop and in season 2 daryl didn't have enough experience to beat Shane.
1 thing is for sure. Shane was a 10/10 character!
Rick and Shane was a demented soap opera...and it was perfect for that show. Almost as much as the zombies it hooked people in fast.
Your review is spot on; good job!
I truly enjoyed listening to you 😊
I do think what started making Shane partially not a good guy was when T-dog radios the group for help but Shane tells everyone not to go after them and just leaves T-dog and the rest of the group to die. even against many of the group’s wishes like Lori and Amy who wanted to to and rescue them Shane was already becoming this dictator on not letting anyone leave the camp to go rescue the group that are trapped in the city. He was even like this in Season 2 when he wanted to leave Sofia behind, which if he was still alive there would be fallout within the group, Rick would’ve been the least of his problems.
Yep
He always valued self preservation over the good of the group. That’s why Rick kept Shane around even after knowing he was with Lori. He understood you need a village to protect your family.
@@diamond_dogs True but Shane was the type that was afraid to take risks, if he killed Rick, in season 3 he would've never made the bold move to take the prison and the group would still be struggling on the road which eventually they would all get killed by starvation or walkers.
Despite Shane’s faulty actions, Lori is mostly the one who caused Shane and Rick to be pitted against each other, I was still young at the time so I never caught thar but rewatching the old seasons is why I understand Lori is the most hated character in the early show.
@@triples2745 I don't understand how Shane's descent into madness was her fault. She loved Rick more. She's always loved Rick more. She was always going to go back to him. She only got with Shane as a coping mechanism, and even then only because Shane said Rick was dead. To pit one against the other, she would need to show interest to both. But once Rick came back, she never gave Shane ANY positive signal. HE is the one who couldn't live with reality there. How is him being a crazed, entitled control freak HER fault?
my favorite excuse people make for Shane's behavior is "he didn't wanna do it, but the writers made him"
"it's not my fault, the Lord told me to do it"
I mean, I believe he didn't want to kill Rick but thought he had to for the sake of the group or the baby.
@Jasper no he hesitate's through out the scene and which is the reason Rick killed him. He almost gave his gun up to Rick since he was hesitant to kill him which gave Rick the upper hand. He wanted to kill him but couldn't do it.
@@0fficer-friendly Bro Shane was considering killing Rick in the woods. Dude was unhinged. He definitely could've killed Rick.
@@1999_reborn was probably going to since when Rick gives hands him his gun Shane smiles due to he thought he was right. Rick instead of fighting him hands over the gun which made Shane think he still could not fight for the group or his family.
When he tried to grape Lori, that cemented it for me.
Dale said it well. The new world became a place for someone like Shane to succeed. Shane was able to abandon any morals he had and just do what he needed to survive. Unfortunately he adapted to quick for the others and he wasn't willing to wait for them to adapt. He should have just left with Andrea. Him learning Lori was pregnant and the child was possibly his gave him a reason to stick around and he felt the need to kill Rick and take control.
He didn't adapt to quick. He adapted into irrationality. Snap decisions without consulting others
Rick knew the choices, much as Shane did but Rick wanted everyone to agree on it. Shane just wanted everyone to agree with him
The other villains of the show were much more patient and clever when it came to dealing with obstacles
The governor and Negan were already aware how important it was to be seen as the 'good guy, who would place out a helpful hand and understand the needs of many but plotting malicious ideas to further themselves, more the governor than Negan
Shane would have only succeeded if someone else aligned with his ideologies. The governor I doubt would have wanted someone else undermining his authority. We saw what he thought about Rick
Negan however would have broken Shane, like he attempted with darly (unsuccessfully)
Eventually making him a LT
If not, that bat would have swung in his favor
@@ZeonEons By The end of Season 2 Rick was also making decisions. Sure he didnt mind some criticism, or discussion. But make no mistake, he was in charge, and he was making the decisions.
@@DevinEMILE Absolutely, Rick was decisive when it came to making the hard choices
Shane is a 50/50 character in my eyes. I think he had an internal battle when it came to his more evil side. His obsession with lori was really his downfall but elements of the good person he was before remained throughout his whole arc. Despite belittling ricks leadership, opening the barn was necessary even if he done it for mainly lori and carl. He whipped the group into shape and further more changed rick forever after that even if it didnt show straight away. I honestly think without shane, rick wouldn't have brought himself to kill the two guys in the bar in the nebraksa episode and Rick wouldnt have become the leader he did by the end of season 2. As bad as shane was at times he did show his empathectic side with the group. He felt guilty for the death of otis, despite how he felt about the group looking for sophia he still showed empathy for carol by making sure she was okay when he found wandering about by herself. On top of that he challenged hershel about sophia being in the barn for the sake of the group. At times it showed that shane had great leadership but ultimately his hot headedness, inability to think before making certain choices and his obsession with lori lead to his downfall.
Also didn't he beat up the guy who was abusing Carol? Shane definitely had a lot of good qualities. But yea, his obsession with Lori ruined him.
Very well said. I agree with it all. It was really wholesome when Shane went to check up on Jim and Carol.
@@thelegacyofgaming2928 yea, although he had a lot of good intentions, most of the time his bad actions seemed to outweigh the good ones.
@@quicklinz Or maybe that obsession and rage he has is actually not Lori but the virus kicking in
@@thelegacyofgaming2928 I do think its kinda weird that Shane would beat the women abuser but then a few days/weeks later (I don't quite remember) he would try to abuse Lori in a way that is on par if not worse then what he seemingly stood againest
I think Shane was meant to be an antithesis to the morals that Rick was trying so hard to cling onto. By season 5 Rick had crossed many of the borders he never thought he'd have to, or at least he excuses other members when they do. However, Shane had some further underlying issues with his emotions because him assaulting Lori and the massacre of the walkers on the farm were steps of careless rage, little empathy to be seen. Rick, while he may lose hope, lose people, hell, even when he loses everything, he still holds onto empathy later on. In fact (SPOILERS) in Rick's later last scene reminiscing on Shane he specifically talks to "Shane" about how he could have stayed but that he went too far, even for e
what Rick now was. I think Shane was both a lesson to the group of other greater villains like Negan, an example of what people are capable of without order. Great video, although for me the moment Shane truly snapped was just before the massacre when Lori tells him "No, Rick said not to," just before Rick showed up with a walker. I think it broke any commanding presence Lori or Rick had over him and drove him to kill Rick and TAKE Lori instead of continuing to ask for the kind of respect he believed he deserved.
I think Shane was confused with Rick's calculated demeanor
Shane wanted a military type group. Yes sir, no sir. To hell with feelings and morality
Rick wanted everyone to embrace it
We see in later seasons that both the Governor and Negan failed to lead by this military type communities when resistance was put up in the face of morality
Though Negan had his own specific morality scale and he would not have approved of Shane's morality, when it came to children and women. Negan didn't tolerate that behavior from his own people, let alone from a stranger
What Shane failed to see in Rick was Rick would end the life of someone that directly threatened the group
This was amplified in the scene, after finding hershal, when Rick kills two people in town after they threatened to take the farm
Rick didn't even hesitate
Imagine if Shane shot the wrong computer
The prof. is like "well... i was going to let you out, but your idiot friend shot the computer needed to unlock the door"
😂😂😂 dude😂💀
Excellent take! Shane has done some messed up things since nearly the beginning, but it's important to distinguish his 'good' reasons from his selfish/malicious reasons.
When he pointed a shotgun at Rick in Season 1 he was pretty much just _fantasizing_ about Rick being out of the picture (again), since from his perspective Rick came back from the dead just as he was starting a relationship with Lori and Carl, and wanted things to go back to how they were when Rick was gone. Pretty selfish, but I don't think he would've pulled the trigger; Rick was still his best friend and he most likely wouldn't get away with it, especially without Lori and Carl resenting him, even if it loojed like an accident. It seems like he was playing a game of 'what if...' and lacked the intention of actually murdering his best friend.
When he kills Otis, he doesn't do it out of malice or sick pleasure, but rather he kills him because he *needs* to save Carl, who he views as his own son, and he comes to the realization that his best chance at getting the respirator to Carl is if someone gets left behind. It's a bit disturbing how quickly Shane makes that insanely hard decision with nearly no hesitation, but for what it's worth it's clear that he feels at least a little remorse for doing it in the later episodes.
The barn zombie debacle was just Shane simply refusing to make any compromises, showing us how impulsive and violent he can be when other people make decisions that make him uncomfortable, which I'd say is a bad personality trait when you're in a group that makes desicions semi-democratically.
The rest of his decisions he makes, that is to fight and eventually conspire to murder Rick, are 100% self-serving and are just meant to fuel his delusion that Lori and Carl belong to him.
I don't think Shane ever had what it took to be the head leader of the group, but if he was loyally committed to Rick then he could've easily become his right-hand man (like what Daryl would become), like how Simon was to Negan or Martinez was to The Governor.
I think the scary part is that you could argue that Shane maybe wasn't selfish at all and that he rationalized that he was protecting those he loved. Nearly everything he did could be argued as an attempt to protect Lori and Carl. The barn scene is hard to argue against, keeping that many zombies in a barn that close to the group was dangerous and could have had disastrous ramifications if the zombies got free. Even the attempt to kill Rick could be argued as a genuine attempt to protect the group, as he thought Rick was incapable of leading and protecting the group at that time. Even with that, I think it shows the devolution of Shane from an alright guy to a person so intent to accomplish his goals that he would sacrifice anything and is may be more a commentary on how such a situation can change a person.
Shane was to Rick like Simon was to Negan or Martinez was to the Governor. All of them were killed by their leader.
@@bwill887 the perspective on Shane all depends on the type of person you are and what you deem as right and wrong. Let’s go down the list. Shane slept with his best friends wife. Protecting ricks family didn’t require Sex. Thats wrong regardless if I’m dead or not. Your my best friend wtf. Rick comes back and Shane wants him dead. That’s wrong. We know the reasons. He also sexually assaulted Lori. Wow u gonna defend that too? Lol next…Shane sacrificed Otis the guy that saved him then he turned around and shot him. Wrong again. There is no justification to it. Now the barn scene, I love that debate. whose barn was it? Not Shane’s. I agree walkers being in a barn is dangerous but the barn was secured and locked. Rick knew the walkers were a threat but there’s different way to go about it knowing that it isn’t your property because realistically if Shane didn’t like it that bad he could have just left. If Shane was in charge he probably would have killed Hershel and took the property. That’s the kind of person he is. Now if you want to defend his actions or agree with em. Then that shows the type of person you are. Are you good or bad? Regardless of the reasons for Shane’s actions. What’s wrong is wrong. Apocalypse or not.
You again?
U could very easily argue Shane killing Otis was selfish though I’d say he did it for Lori more than he did Carl, Shane may have said he cared about Carl over and over but at the end of the day I feel like he really just wanted Lori to love him, Shane was most definitely not a kids man over and over again he criticized the group for looking for Sophia not even a day in he was mad at Rick for not moving on. I believe more so Shane thought if he could save Carl Lori would want him more. And it kindve worked because afterwards Lori tells Shane she wants him to stay.
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it was such a shame that Shane was gone so soon. i mean i liked the whole story with him and understood that he needed to go, but man John Bernthal and Andrew Lincoln together, they need to be in more shows together. their actingg is my favourite thing from season 2
This was the same chemistry or friction that was in Dexter with Doakes
Eww DOAKES??😅
@@sevenstarred77 whatcha looking at motherf@#ker lol Doakes
Shane in the governor ark would’ve been great
Shane was one of my most favorite characters on the show. Shane actually saw what the world had turned absolutely ruthless so he became ruthless. I think his love for Lori was the catalysis of Shane's mental breakdown. Once he knew she was pregnant he literally goes insane.
Definitely a villain. And a great character. Back when the walking dead was really good
Would love to see that same analysis about the Governor, because as I see it he always switches from villian to a dark version of Rick and so on. Even his ambush on military was done to have more resources for his settlement (Remember when Rick crew slaughter whole saviours station for food and supplies) so it would interesting to see
Yeah a Video on the Governer would be good he was a good guy at first and then slowly Turned mad
@@hectorbarbossa4403 Well, Rick could become as Governor if same thing happened to him in short term, he almost lose his mind after death of his wife, imagine if Carl turned in biter afterwards
While I think supplies were a factor sure, I think another reason was the military men would've been a threat to his power/position as leader in Woodbury.
@@evillittlebetch Yeah that's also.. but as I say during early on he was basically a dark version of Rick.. but after his daughter get "killed" he just snaps it
He straight murdered Otis. Shane is a bad guy.
Otis was dead already. A "walking" dead. If both are dead, the kid was dead too. Ugly, relentless, but necessary decision only strong men are able to make.
@@halivudestevez2 No, that's how villain's rationalize their evil decisions. Technically, we're all dead the moment we are born, regardless of the zombie virus, so that's no justification for Shane's murder of Otis.
I think the reason for shane's obsession with rick's family was that after all hell broke loose and everything became chaos, he ended up finding a reason to survive and fight for, which was lori and carl. The proof of this was when Shane says that he didn't keep the two alive, but they kept him alive. And Rick's return made him lose his mind, because he ended up taking it away from him. He was a good character, too bad he lost himself 😢
I love your content and the way you edit your videos. Shane was definitely one of the best characters in the show.
In my opinion, Shane was a normal man, and struggled with Rick's loss. He tried to save Rick in the hospital, and when he couldn't assumed he was dead. Lori found comfort in shane and eventually grew romantic relationship. but when rick came, everything went downhill. But Shane still killed Otis (rip).
@@empireofthewolves9881I think it was just because they saw it as the end of the world. I think Lori wanted someone to hide behind and Shane was strong and he got well with Carl. I dont blame either of them for getting with eachother but I feel bad for Rick obviously
@Empire of the Wolves it wasn’t all Shane’s fault though, it takes two to tango. Plus when he was fixing the lil water tower thing at the farm finally kinda getting over her she pulled him straight back in and made him worse off than ever. I would put more blame on lori if we’re doing that tbh
@@disventuredcamp yeah, but getting over the most important person in their lives is still fckd up, theres no excuse, no matter if its the end of the world, you dont do such thing.
@@lold6d2it’s not
@@FancyCat229 it is
Shane was an attack dog that needed the right handler. Except that nobody was the right handler.
So weird to come back to this show all these years later. Good video!
Great video breaking down the steps into madness. There were many crucial moments for Shane in TWD and I agree that the moment he found out about the pregnancy, something inside him snapped. He knew he had to make things safe for Lori because she was carrying his baby. He saw Randall as a threat because Randall could tell his camp where the farm was. It made perfect sense to me to kill Randall, though few understood why.
I see the whole Otis sacrifice as a great example of what Shane would do to protect Lori and Carl. One of them wasn't going to make it out and Shane chose himself over someone else as I am sure everyone would do. I don't agree that it's part of his progression towards insanity.
Shane is one of my favorite characters. He was just ahead of the curve. He was the only one in the first two seasons that saw what the world was now, and he knew what actually had to be done to survive. He did do a lot of shitty stuff and if it weren’t for his obsession with Lori I think we could of saw a power duo of Rick and Shane into the later seasons.
Could have seen*
And worship a villain some more, dork.
@@alexeben7776 All of what you said doesn't negate anything the OP said...
Depends on what you regard as "the curve". He was physically capable and the world ending and bringing forward the "survival of the fittest" mentality, was the perfect situation for an asshole like him to go nuts and have fun while also using the state of the world as an excuse. It's shown time and time again - every chance he got to serve himself, he took. He may have helped the group but his hidden intentions were for the others to view him as a leader and idolize him.
Soon as someone was in a gloomy situation they were as good as dead meat to him, Lori and Carl included. Rick managed to both adapt and keep his humanity, even when he went overboard he was always around for his group as a person, always helped keep morale up. That's Shane kept pestering Rick about not having the balls to be as ruthless as need-be when push came to shove, it's all he had to show for himself by the end. It was all about dick-measuring, who's the "bigger man". Unstable and emotional people with weak egos like him never make it for long enough.
Someone else other than Rick or from another group would sooner or later snap or leave him to the crows.
nah he was pathetic, trying to kill rick, bad leader, def not a team player
Seeing how the rest of the group became EXACTLY like Shane in their own ways he wasn’t a monster…. he was just ahead of the curve!
Ten years later doing a rewatch, and Shane was right about everything, ahead of his time
Rewatching TWD for the third time with my sibling, and I'm on S2.
Damn I miss Shane but he had to keep doing the most for Lori. And she didn't help either 💀
I will never forgive her when he was about to leave and finally let it go then here she comes and put that BS in his ear then immediately turn on Rick after she finds out Rick killed him instead
@@jetla22 That's hella true
Oh, the 'It's all Lori's fault' theory. I don't buy it. Shane would need to be extremely weak-willed and pathetic.
@@Ares99999 Its not Lori's fault, Shane has been seen to be extremely selfish and in my opinion, would've abandoned Lori if it meant his survival (if he never died from Rick). Plus, Lori probably was doing Shane as a coping mechanism as he was the only real person that she actually really knew in their group. I mean, how would you cope if you found out there's a zombie apocalypse and that there was a chance that everyone you love could be dead?
@@Ares99999 I don't believe in whatever that theory is. I literally said Shane couldn't help desiring Lori and Carl which lead to his downfall
It's a hard situation when nobody around you feels where you're coming from
And then you have 2 options: 1) Handle it sanely, 2) Handle it insanely. Shane picked 2.
Men have difficulty communicating emotions directly so they shoot computers and shave their heads instead
4:55 "It isnt how it was before" Those words are the words that although not what we want to hear, are the wise words in the land of the dead
has anyone else noticed that as long as shane has something to live for he isn't ruthless in his survival? before the fall he was fine because he had everything, during the fall he slowly lost everything and slowly became more ruthless with lori being basically the only thing he had, when rick took back lori he became more ruthless while he kept trying to get back with her, when lori made sure he knew she wasn't going to be with him he knew he lost everything and didn't care what he had to do to survive or get what he wanted. when he started taking an interest in andrea he had something going for him again but not enough to bring him back to how he was so he remained ruthless until he ended up getting himself killed.
Shane was definitely a villain. He adapted early and all, but you can't deny how irrational some of his decisions were.
He became the villain when he tried to kill Rick just to make Lori and Carl his family. His obsession made him a villain. But his survival mindset was way ahead of everybody, Bro is already on season 11 while everyone is on season 2 lol
No, he wasn't. Season 5, 6 at best. Except he never would have accepted Alexandria, never would have tried to help it grow, never would have formed the Coalition, and certainly wouldn't have become a figure of unity. Season 2 Shane would have looked like a raging lunatic to everyone at season 7+. He might have been ahead of the curve survival-wise (and that, by complete accident, it just happened that his crazy aligned with what was needed at the time), but he got surpassed, and was trailing behind characters on other aspects since the beginning.
100% agree. U can’t even disagree. Great video
Even though you posted this around the time I was on the Shane season, it feels forever ago already lol. I'm now in mid s10 and man how far have things gone
the part that reminds me the most and represents shanne as a villain is the scene where the camera just focuses on her face and he starts to get that attentive and at the same time crazy look as if she had snorted some magic dust
Mr Chad, Shane was a bad person for sure but he wasn't the worst . All he needed was little push to become villian and that push came from Lori.
@@daddyshome275 and that's a fact bro, Mr Chad your point and also mine because in my point of view Lori often turned the head of shanne against rick and that ended up getting everything out of hand, like without Lori putting shit in shanne's mind against rick, shanne would be a good person and a brother to Rick
@@Dan_Edittz Exactly Shane was willing to leave the group but Lori stopped him by saying some family shit.
@@daddyshome275 Facts Brother 🗿
@@Dan_Edittzbrudda what do you wanna be in future? 🗿
I mean he was definitely a villain, but at the same time, he was right about a lot of things involving survival. I sometimes wish I could imagine a version of this show where Shane had survived a lot longer, and could've just kept a level head or something. It would've been awesome to see him go up against the governor, or the terminus people, or Negan.
The show already extended his live, he dies pretty early in the comics, would be cool tho ig
shane vs Negan would of been awesome, i could EASILY see Shane turning on Rick and becoming Negans number 2 and using that power to bring Lori (who he would of kept alive since unlike Rick he didnt want to leave the camp at every possible opportunity) and Carl over the Negans camp
as for Lori dying to surgery, Shane would of killed whoever it took to make sure that didnt happen, thats been his mindset since season 1
@@backtrakk2121 Lori died because her baby was probably breaching, causing all the blood but lack of dilation. Hershel, a vet, most likely wouldn’t have been able to do much. Also, despite her flaws, I don’t think she would’ve left Rick for Shane. Particularly not if he joined Negan. You know, the guy with multiple concubines who smashes peoples faces in with bats and burns them with irons. Even if not for Rick, she wouldn’t want to put her kids in that position.
@@backtrakk2121 I disagree. Shane would've remained loyal to the group for the most part, despite his ability to turn on Rick. He would've had enough respect for Glenn to fight to defend his legacy (mainly being Maggie, and their son).
I think you've got a really good approach to making videos man :)
We are all like Shane... we have this hidden darkness when there are no rules or laws some people will adapt faster I do understand shanes points of view and Rick did become like him later down the road AMC did a great job with how they made him play this character
I always thought of Shane becoming a villain after he killed Otis but you had a lot of good point in this video because he did show a lot of remorse and he still showed care for Rick even after killing otis but I just think the writers know what they were doing when they had him shave his head and I feel like him shaving his head is just really symbolic kindve of him shifting as a character
I know this is a super late comment but yeah him shaving his head was definitely the switch in his character, It isn't a coincidence
I think the thing that makes Shane's death such a sore point for so many people is that he never reached any point in which he was past redemption. Shane wasn't evil, he had mental health issues and with the exception of his conflict with Lori and Rick he was dealing with them in the healthiest way he could in his environment. If Lori hadn't told Shane to stay in season 2 he would've left and likely found himself in a better environment to deal with his issues.
Shane doesn't have mental issues, no peers to test that properly. All of the "Healthy" people are zombies now.
Bro I just finished my lunch the second the video ended (btw great video really enjoyed it).
This is the moment Shane become Heisenberg
Shane is a great character and Jon really portrayed him well. I wonder how he would've been had he lived longer. I think Shane really did have a good heart, but his never ending love, or obsession really, for Lori is unfortunately what got him killed.
One thing you forget though (I think) - how he beat Ed almost to death for hitting Carol. I don't praise violence but I was really glad to see someone finally did something about Ed's abusive behaviour. The girls at that camp tried to obviously get him to stop, but seeing the way Shane literally beat some sense into him kinda made me happy.
2:56 I mean, that's a pretty normal reaction to being trapped in a building about to die
Shane aiming at Rick in the first season was the first portrayal of intrusive thoughts before it even got trendy xD
"Lemme tell u sumthin'" - Shane "The Punisher" Walsh
This show started so well. And even though season 2 was spread out across 13 episodes instead of 6, it was still a joy to watch. Can't say that to any of episode starting S7
season 7 and 8 are arguably the best seasons in terms of writing
"My mercy prevails, over my wrath."
@@ayatokuzi6345I've sein bad comments on CZcams but this 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭
Shane didn't know for sure that Rick was dead he simply chose to believe it.
He also never told Lori that he left Rick alive in the hospital.
We know he listened for Ricks heartbeat and he tells Lori he didn't hear anything but Ricks heart was obviously still beating.
It's pretty good writing actually because a guy like Shane would choose to believe his own lie for his own benefit.
I would have given him an evil point for that because his entire relationship with Lori was based on a lie.
Eh could be that but I think he knew Rick was alive but awhile after he left Rick at the 🏥 Shane probably thought he was fully/pronounced dead.
He probably couldn’t hear his heartbeat because of the gun shots
It's pretty safe to assume Rick was dead given he was in a hospital with a gunshot wound surrounded and infested by walkers...
Deep down I think Shane knew all along that he wasn't 100% positive Rick was dead.
@@HubbaBubba768 how much more certain could shane have been? He check for a pulse, and his breathing and didn't get anything..Even if he assumed rick was alive rick would still be in a coma without any medical equipment to treat him, assuming shane could escape dragging ricks body out with soldiers and walkers alike after him. Shanes ignorance isn't willful, the information could get get was limited due to the situation.
Shane was a villain, but I agree 100% with one thing that he told Rick. That Rick couldn't keep Lori and Carl safe.
I loved Shane and his character is loved because he was such a developed character so early on and knew how it had to be. But none the less I’m much happier I followed Ricky grimes through the journey. Woulda been cool to see his character longer
There was a scene cut during production where Rick discovered after Shane's death, that the gun Shane had drawn on him was never loaded. he was never going to kill Rick, he was gonna make Rick kill him.
The answer is never. He was exactly right all the time.
Even his emotional outbursts were justified. Betrayed, undermined, ignored, argued with until proven right or having to prove himself right.
Shane was the unsung hero of the series. If Rick had listened to Shane his family would have lived.
Let me tell you something, Clashed PR, this is a great video.
Shane was a pretty good introductory character into the madness Walking Dead would lead down into. He showed the power level they would be up against. He was a mixed bag of necessary violence, the conflict of human relations all into one each being piecemeal and more explored on individaul characters throughout the series.
The reason why Shane decided to kill Rick and not in the forest, is because he was too close to the camp. If they heard the gunshot they’ll be quick to discover what Shane did. And Lori made it clear that she didn’t want any drama between best-friends. She needed support at the beginning and no one can blame her for that, instead of keeping up the affair she ended it, and when Otis was sacrificed the guilt ate him up, but it made him realize that there’s a possibility that he can kill Rick without anyone knowing. And when Rick and Shane were having their final fight, he wanted to kill Rick. But it felt different from Otis, he actually cared for Rick but turned crazy because he knew he’ll never have a good ending.
He's the first character who's death actually affected me... I felt there was so much more they could do with the character... But I completely respected their decision.
I think he hoth was ahead of his time but he was also very weal mentally. He had the skills and decisiveness that a zombie survivor needs, but he also held grudges and was emotionally weak, things that a survivor needs to bury deep inside him. Which is exactly what Rick did after Shane died.
Bruh the way dale looked at Shane 💀 0:46
its always so funny when he makes that face
I always saw Shane as the real truth of what would happen to us in that situation. No grand speeches about persevering or staying alive, just a cold bitter man who saw nothing but death and destruction. The others saw a light at the end of the tunnel, but all he saw was the end.
And he was right.
If Walking Dead actually happens somehow then that is actually the end. You can’t make a society when everyone who dies becomes a zombie that will kill you or your friends and family.
There is no way humanity would cooperate long enough to find a cure(if there is one) with no laws or civilization.
1:29 The boom coming in strong here. This was the moment Shane decided to be the villain.
Great video on Shane 👏, can you do a video on Lori, I get she’s a mix on walking dead fans and a lot of people not realize is that when she told Rick that Shane was dangerous and told him to kill him, she wasn’t upset about his death as mush in the finale in season 2 it was when Rick said “Carl putt him down” and that’s why she was mad at Rick for, that Carl finish the job and Rick didn’t expect to feel as bad that Carl a young boy had to put him down to save him, if Rick just kill him their while he was transforming to a walker then Carl wouldn’t have took the shot and grow become more cold when it comes to killing walkers or people if he knew them.
4:44 because that's the most replayed
So "fun" detail. Shane actually shaved his head because (if I remember correctly) Otis pulled out a chunk of Shane's hair and Shane either couldn't stand the reminder of what he did or didn't want anyone to ask questions about it. But the problem is when he shaved his hair he had no guard against all the head rubbing, which slowly drove him mad.
I love this! 🥰
I'm so tired of hearing people say Rick turned into Shane in later seasons. He absolutely did not. Rick did some very rough and wicked shit, but every single thing he did was to protect him and his. Shane actively tried to take things away from other people. There is a MASSIVE difference.
Shane going crazy is entirely Lori’s fault
She pretty much drove Rick insane too. It's clearly her thing.
I think it honestly was the very moment he first laid eyes on Rick in Season one, episode three.
His look of bewilderment at Rick being alive is only masking his immediate anger and resentment.
Watch it closely: he never once smiled at Rick.
His exact expression was if he was saying,”HOW is he still alive?”
Yup, I'd be like
*REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY*
"Hell you survive bro" 😂
Honestly Shane assulting Lori should have instantly made him a villian (though I know that would make for a much shorter and boring video) there is absolutly no excuse for what he did in the old world and the apocalypse, and the worst part was that this was pretty early on, it didn't even take a lot for him to sink as low as SA
Season 2 is my favorite just because of Shane. That barn scene was the best.
Stumbled across this video and I just want to throw out there that I think I would've liked the alternative ending that was planned for Shane's death that in my opinion would've made a better conclusion; from the wiki and I quote,
"When Shane would have came back as a walker, Rick (having thrown his gun away), would have picked up Shane's gun to shoot him. When attempting to pull the trigger, Rick would come to the realization that Shane never put any ammo into his gun, and must've brought Rick out there to have him kill him, forcing Rick to finally be more like Shane"
That would've been much better!!
Honestly I wish it happened, it would've been a better outcome for Shane
How would that have been better? Shane would still be dead. This scene shows that Rick was right: Shane would have tried again one day. Explain what's wrong with that.
@@lawrence3861 How?
@@shanelong5602 It's not what happened.
This really was the moment when Shane became Heisenberg