Powering An Old Mill 1.5 Kw Lake District Overshot Waterwheel Project Part 4
Vložit
- čas přidán 14. 12. 2023
- In this video I make modifications to the design in order to fit a induction motor used as a generator. I then go over to johns to get the capacitance right and then back to the wheel to get everything up and running.
Being an EE retired since 2011 I am impressed with your grasp of the mechanical and electrical specifications and skills needed to correctly design and build a one off generating system to a specified output. Great Job. Ray Stormont
Maybe you can answer me then. It appears to me that there is plenty of force from the water to turn a different gear ratio for a higher ratio towards the motor. Could this be done to change the 1500-1600 produced, into 1800ish? What fails in this scenario? I'm no sparky, I play with bricks, blocks, and stones!
I am also a retired EE about 10 years ago.
I don't believe a gearbox could produce more output, as Kris has actually already shown by using more water. Because the resistance is too great and the wheel slows down so much that the water fills the buckets too quickly. The only thing you could do is make the buckets wider. But that means you're actually starting from scratch again.
@@slyknowledged The limitations most probably are in the water wheel and that cannot be changed by gearing. As Chris shows the buckets are filling up and peaking at 1500-1600 W. Changing the rpm with other gear ratios should not make much of a difference there, just risk increasing the splashing and losses.
@@slyknowledged or give it a higher resistive load with more capacitor
Excelant points pre-loading the buckets would allow for slightly more water and cut down on splashing and could be easily returned to original if benifits were not proved as buckets are not changed just more completly filled.@@henkkalter3892
My 5yr old son and I watch all your videos… then we go outside, build something… He even says ‘well pleased with that’ when we are done… 😂❤
Thanks for explaining that this was fed from a leet, which was a minor diversion from a much larger river. That made a lot of sense and added good context to the project.
We are all gradually going back to how our ancestors lived.. and that’s a good thing because there was no impact on the earth and people were happy just to be housed and warm xx amazing job you are so very clever xx
I would love to have access to water like that. You’ve done a top notch job on this system.
But would you be OK with the rain that's required for that water?
I’m in Oregon. I live with the rain. It’s not like where Kris lives though. 😊
@@flowerstoneI think rainfall levels in Oregon are higher than in West Wales.
@@MaritimeFox I just don’t have a creek close by.
@@MaritimeFox West Wales? I thought this was Lake District.
I really like how you can't stop smiling when you look at your creation. You are, and should be, very proud of what you've imagined, designed, and built.
Awesome work.
Would be possible to add Archimedes' screw for that spillway? for extra generation ?
Hi Kris. What a fantastic looking hydro wheel system 😊 It’s absolutely brilliant that you never give up until you’re 100% satisfied 👍🏻 Hopefully the customers will be satisfied with your design and work you’ve put in and you’ll get more commission out of it 👍🏻 Well done 👏🏻
Very impressed Kris. Watched this series from the beginning, trials, and Tribulations; and your problem-solving. Your client also deserves credit for working with you and having the faith to persevere.
I'm in absolute awe of everything you have achieved but this my friend, is an absolute masterpiece!
Was literally just watching an older video thinking to myself "Man I hope Kris uploads today." Thanks for the great content over all these years Kris, and I hope for many more! Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Totally agree.
for me whenever it comes to Kris upload schedule I stop watching like 4 and 5 months i come back where I life at and I have so many videos to watch 😊
Isn't it the most awesome feeling to take an idea and make it manifest? It's why I adore making things. Especially things that take you and stretch you a bit beyond what you've done before. No other feeling like it.
From an EE point of view I have found this series fascinating. I have to add that I am far from an expert in generator systems, so I have been learning along with you.
As a fabricator I am really impressed. As an insaller I am blown away. How many trips up and down the ladder an in and out of the river. I hope you made great money and I thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. This video is a master class in the challenges of invention. Congrats!!
guess he doesn't need to remember leg day while on this job
Do you wear safety glasses?
@@richspillman4191 Wtf does that have to do with it?
@@unhippy1 One million eyes are lost per year, always wear safety glasses, don't take shortcuts when it comes to safety THAT's wtf it has to do with it. Unless you think it's cool to look like a pirate.
@@richspillman4191 I mean... it does look cool to be a pirate but it's also good to avoid eye injuries anyway
you can still wear an eyepatch without bodily harm anyway
I enjoy these hands-on videos from Kris, great stuff!
Functionality and aesthetics ... a build to be proud of for sure!
_MAGNIFICENT!_
That slow flow-rate sounds like a well balanced locomotive chuffing along a flat track.
Great video for a Friday. Amazing design, engineering, and fabrication. A great achievement!
I absolutely love this project and I'm so jealous of the owner. I invested in a load of solar panels and batteries this year which will save me a fortune over the course of the year even though they are pretty useless this time of year - I have over 9KW peak but they produce next to nothing in this grimy-greyness.
To supplement them, I've been watching your wind turbine videos, and I'm experimenting with the motors from an old "hover board" but really I'd much rather have a water wheel for the consistency and sheer power you can get from one. Overall, the peak values that solar can produce do not compare to having something generating 24x7.
The wheel you've built is the best I've seen on CZcams by far.
Exactly this for me. When i was looking at a house ti buy i was wanting to have water like this. But where we are we get lots of wind so im probably gonna go that route for power gen to augment the solar. Cuzz i dont wana rely on sunnt days though we tend to get a lot of those around here too
The way I saw micro hydro turbines do their shutoff/deflector setups is they use a weighted flap retained by an electromagnet. When there is an emergency the power to the magnet gets cut and the deflector plate drops in place. Similar could be done here. No moving parts for the actuaction itself, as long as the eights are sized propperly. Anyway amazing job, the survey was really close aswell! Enjoyed watching this series.
What an epic achievement! Thanks so much for taking us along with you and for clearly sharing your journey.
Congrats Kris - this is and incredible project. I am truly amazed at your skills and I love to see the obvious joy on your face as you see this working. Thanks for sharing this with us!
I'm impressed by your ability to teach yourself advanced skills. Then to design and build things is divergent as your shop with its wonderful roof your own wind power your own barn your home. Your credit to people who focus on learning and delivering May you have a wonderful Christmas
He will be welding blind if he keeps welding with no hood or safety glasses.
He DID utilise the safety-squint.
Kris, I’m absolutely delighted for you in your success and impressed by your array of skills. Learning loads from you, keep up the good work.
I love to see someone that understands the whole process and can actually build a system from scratch. As someone that has been heating a 4000 sq ft home for 21 years using WVO that costs me zero I really love the quality of the hydro system posted. Keep rocking. Philip from the emerald isle.
Outstanding job Kris, it’s a great feeling when you’re proud of what you’ve achieved.
Love the safety squints at the start. Would some kind of cowl/hood around the area the flow meets the wheel to catch the splashing help keep more water bearing down on the wheel?
Great job will last for years ..theres lots of haters and negitive people ..if we listened to them we would never move forward ..keep educating son ..your a positive force ..mike Scotland
A 2.2Kw asynchronous motor can provide 2.6Kw used as a generator. (5.87A*3*230V*cos fi 0.64= 2592W) In the old days here in Denmark we made wind turbines with asynchronous motors as generators. When the speed of the motor reached above synchronous rpm, a contactor connected directly to the mains. In the event of a mains failure, the motor loses magnetisation and runs freely. Nicely done project. Comment from a Danish electrical technician. 👍
Kris you are an absolute genius...great work great learning great prototype for future projects..keep up the excellent videos I'm enjoy your content your special camper. ignore the haters
You can use water for power without destroying the enviroment, thanks for showing us that.
Great video!! Fantastic to watch an honest appraisal & in a way public can understand. Thanks heaps for calling them out. Cheers from Australia
Well done on getting those figures and getting in line with your model expectations. I imagine with all the variables that isn't easy to do on a first project like this.
Kris you never fail to amaze me, glad you managed to get the water mill working to everyone's satisfaction. Merry Christmas and a happy new year.
Excellent work and perseverance Kris! Can't wait to see more hydro projects you do
Great work Kris. Dedication to the job and pride in your workmanship. Often a rarity these days. You can be rightly pleased with yourself especially in the knowledge you achieved it even in the face of adversity from those who don't care as much as you do.
The water chute to the wheel could be enclosed ,slightly above the water to funnel the water to the buckets more efficiently (less splashing).
Yes that should work, but that enclosed funnel needs a hinged "roof" so it can get pushed up if there are any larger objects in the water which doesn't fit into the buckets, for example sticks or an empty bottle or maybe even a soccer ball.
If the enclosure is completely fixed such objects would jam between the enclosure and the wheel. With a hinged top plate, it can swing up and let the objects pass through.
the screens Kris uses on is micro projects could improve water flow but then thy need to empty quickly How could that work . Secody exist hols parps like in life boat's
excellent job Kris! Your tenacity anf knowledge saw you through and the end result is fantastic. Also the sound the wheel makes at steady state is dreamy :D
Brilliant job, glad you got the issue sorted out and the plan worked out ok.
As a mechanical tech i can say BRAVO !, its a hell of alot of work and keep in mind that this is a functionnal prototype, it was a high risk of complications project, absolutly beautiful !
Your videos are so therapeutic to watch. Both your craftsmanship and presenting style. This series has been my favourite i love watching water flow
You have created a beautiful work of practical art. You have also demonstrated the sheer amount of intricate work and materials and planning needed for an open falling water system. It now seems obvious to me why those with the will to take on hydro usually choose a pressurized system with pelton wheels. It seems so much less intricate with modern materials. Perhaps at some point you could create a video comparing the scope of each option?
Congratulations Kris, an ambitious project very well executed, when I started watching your channel I thought what a talented carpenter/cabinet maker, turns out you are also quiet the accomplished engineer.
Hi Kris, I'm no engineer. I can't do the math let alone remember all the formulae. I was blessed to be able to work as a technician (the hands on guy or grunt) with many many engineers from all over the world at GM, so I got a chance to converse with them about everything from the theory of relativity to lunch for nearly 40yrs. I'd like to try and add my hairbrained idea if you wouldn't mind. My understanding of how an inside component of an automobile transmission torque converter; the "stator" works is: A row of small stationary "foils" attached to the casing of an axial-flow turbine, positioned between the rotors, that redirect the splashed fluid back into the turbine to add torque. I am referring to the splashing of water that appears to exit over the bucket and freefall through the air offering no further energy after it has splashed. By redirecting the splash inside the automatic transmission torque converter the torque is multiplied so greatly that I don't believe there is an automatic transmission in the world that doesn't incorporate it. My own vision was/ is a shield that is designed/ sized to redirect the splash back into the buckets, sort of the way the housing fits around a turbo charger. Fun to watch you and thank you for endeavoring to persevere seeking solutions to all the issues. Merry Christmas to you Kris. ben/ michigan
Have a great 2024 Kris, thanks for enjoying us with your vids.
Love this video series, brilliant work and so jealous of this facility! Cannot believe the people complaining about creating 100% green power by temporarily redirecting some water.... you'd think they'd prefer your client used a diesel generator maybe! 😂
Much respect to you. Thank you for documenting all this, have enjoyed all of the episodes.
Here's a thought: since the water picks up speed down the ramp it tends to load into the bucket at a high velocity. I wonder if it's possible to SLOW the water just before it falls into the wheel buckets (to reduce splash)? A mini dam who's 6 inch depth would absorb some water turbulence prior to dumping down into the bucket (or even a couple 1/4" bumps near the end of the ramp). Especially since your power is from water weight and not water velocity. Just a thought! Great project.
Some great points there but water inertia increases derived power
The splashes are caused by the buckets, In my system, i bring the water from the other side of the wheel bu I still have some 20% losses
Congratulations. Another masterpiece.
Excellent work 🎉
Fantastic job, Kris, and a very engaging video as always. I doubt you'll see this comment as there are so many, but my only criticism of your system is your use of an AC-to-DC power supply to power a low-voltage contactor for the load dump. I (an EE) would've used a contactor with a coil that could be powered directly from the mains, eliminating the AC-to-DC power supply and increasing the reliability. Sorry if I've misunderstood your system but I think that's how it works.
Congratulations! I've been thinking about the amount of splashing you have. It might be useful in future designs to extend the bottom of the buckets upward/outward a bit because you loose most water over that edge. Another point of interest might be the shoot. As there is a bend quite close to the end, you might be able to create some less turbulent flow by putting some parallel thin metal slats in the section between the bend and the end, so as to guide the flow to become parallel (or laminar).
I hope your next video will be out soon and show us the progress you made on the barn. I guess you may have fitted a roof on top of it by now.
I would put a few DANGER signs up to keep any kids away. If I was a kid in the area, I would want to check that out. One false move and that wheel would chew you up...
Well done Kris, it's satisfying just watching it all come together. You must be so proud having done all the hard work planning, designing, engineering and perfecting this solution.
There's something really special about making something that should continue working beyond your lifetime, that's a proper legacy project. Thank you for sharing it with us.
Kris, fantastic, just thinking back to the days of you building the roundhouse. I come to your site to go off grid myself, it takes to me another place. I understand that there will all ways be faceless warriors who know best, I just wish they would recognise the story you have told over the last number of years, the huge following you have. Congratulations Kris, Merry Christmas to you, the cat and Dot.🎉
Great job Kris, thanks for bringing us along!
if I'll ever move out of the netherlands I'll make sure to have some water and height difference. This looks awesome
Loved this series, congratulations on an amazing achievement. I like to think I have an engineering mind, but to put your skill into action like this is something to behold
Great job Kris, glad you were able to find a work around. It looks stunning in its setting. Shame about the mis info on the first genny. Onwards and upwards now and better armed. Well done. Stay well.
Great job! You should be so proud. Your customer will have many years of trouble free power for sure!
You got it working well now. For those saying that 1-1,5kW is not much, when the system is able to generate 20kWh a day during winter time this actually is enough to run a 7-8kW heat pump for most of the time entirely from water power alone. and it will do it for 24/7 during winter time when heating is needed but Solar doesn't do much.
I use a 7kW heat pump, and with an outside temperature of 0°C it uses 800w on average to keep my house warm, it's just when heating up indoor when it uses more power for a couple of hours.
So you will heat your house without importing from the grid, which is what you mostly will do when using solar.
Absolutely love this beautiful job. U continue to amaze me with your skills - can’t wait to see you back on the barn- hope you get the shingles on this winter- the rest can wait until spring- I know financially you wanted to wrap up the water wheel project.
And it's a thing of beauty as well as purpose, and has a wonderful sound. Brilliant, really enjoyed seeing this fantastic project to the finish, great to see you working through the problems to this wonderful piece pf engineering that will be turning for many years ahead. I think you need a plate on it with the date of construction and your name for future generations to see.
Really enjoyed following this project - good job! 👏🏻
Congratulations on a major milestone Kris!
How about a flow divider of some sort, controlled by your sensors, to maintain the wheel at the necessary speed/flow/load by directing more or less to the wheel. Think boat rudder and autopilot actuator.
I think the splashing could be attributed to the "Pelton Effect" happening in the bucket, especially if the wheel is being electrically braked but the flow volume is high. There will be that sweet spot where the wheel speed and the flow match. Crack on Mate. Ex Heli Engineer, 30 years in Film. Enjoying following the progress. Thank you
I gotta stop commenting before I watch the whole video, innit? Lol.
That's really cool well done!
Perhaps to improve the laminar flow of the water, perhaps fill the trough with pvc pipes- if it works with straws, I'm assuming it could work with pipes- it may help with the splashing- that or fins at the end, if it works on propellers, I could see it working with water- who knows, could get an extra few watts out of the system
It’s always the fine tuning that the tricky part. Never give up.
Love the stack of Carling crates in johns workshop 😂 good lad
Thank you very much Kris, I've learned so much watching your work. Question please, can you discuss with us, the maintains requirements that goes with have a system like this. I love your work, and how your mind thinks. Thank you for sharing all you do.
Really pleased you got it sorted. I'd love to see the temps of the new motor at peak flow in the next video! 🔥
I have learned so much during the waterwheel project, thank you Kris !
I've loved following this build, doing great work and making it fun to follow along with.
Great work Kris after the disappointment of that crappy motor - great to see you so excited again with this amazing project. Have an amazing Krismas!! 🎅🏻
Really enjoyed watching this project Chris well done 👍 I've worked on a few off grid and grid tied solar and wind turbine jobs with my uncle who also watches the channel. Nothing beats a good hydro system for consistent output 24/7. We've never done hydro but it always comes up in conversation. I would love to learn more about how you wire the 3 phase 8 pole induction motor to turn it into a generator. Looking forward to the next installment 👍👍
I too wondered about that and how it could self start etc
One thing I've seen with streams like this is, huge differences in flood times, absolutely crazy amounts of water are possible. In the U.S. we actually have agencies who keep track of those amounts year after year and you can look back and see a extra large year and what happened. In 1964 there was a flood that was considered to be a 100 year max but many said it was more like a 500 year max, absolutely unbelievable amounts of water came through the waters on the coast of northern California !
I'm really glad you got it working! I could see the stress in earlier videos. We all know that feeling. Great work!
Great job Kris, so glad to see another video of yours. You have dine an amazing job, and your dedication to get it right is a credit to you. You are never going to please everyone, so just do what you think id right for you. Jay
I would be proud of your work too. It is a vey well thought out system. It was a shame the Chinese piece didn't work out but it shows how you excel in diversity and overcome obstacles. I Look forward to more of the great content you share with us. Cheers
Inspiring. No grid down with you lot. I'm moving next door.... when the appcolapse hits. Good on yer.
Brilliant job, well done! Fascinating to watch.
Been looking forward to this.
Bit surprised to see you welding without your visor on, but glad to see the good old safety squint in use.
Loved the stack of crates of carling in your friend's otherwise super high tech workshop :-)😂
Very impressive Kris must admit even though I only get intermitent high flow on the ditches on my farm since watching you I'm concidering a small hydro system to mix with solar and wind
One thing that crossed my mind watching the splash loss on full flow do you think a curved shield fixed to the frame round the top third of the wheel just after the shoot would force it back in and improve the peak output by keeping the buckets full
Would be an easy and fairly cheap experiment
First time seeing someone on internet doing an off grid Induction generator. Very good!
Awesome project Kris, thanks for sharing!
A great project well executed, well done Kris. I did wonder if you have tried lining the buckets with something like astroturf to calm the water down? Like they do on HGV's to cut down spray.
Very impressive as always
I hope you came out with few quid profit after all the messing the Chinese motor caused!
Inspirational serie. Peak problem solving skill.
Great to watch well done. Can't wait for the next project.
I'd love to see some near high-speed shots of the bucket filling/splashing on various load conditions. I wonder wether some kind of baffle inside the buckets could improve performance. Also i dont think using more water is wasting it when it is available. The energy will be dissipated regardless of going over your wheel or just into heat and noise through the bypass. On thing regarding the rod: you added a lot of security systems electronically, big installations usually use intended breaking points as mechanical fail safe. In your case undersizing the mounting screws for the anchor for your tightning rods could achieve that. For example should the engine/gearbox seize up, the resulting torque would compress/extend the rod and its anchor screws then can shear off to release the belt and let the wheel spin free until your govenor stops the water supply.
Always a pleasure watching you turn theory into practice. I'm looking at the conduit that connects the wheel to the controllers and can't help but wonder what is above it? Any concerning "widow makers" which could fall on that as it is in quite a precarious position to withstand any such occurrence.
Thank you very much for posting this series. I very much enjoyed watching you walk through this process. It was a good learning experience for me.
Impressive job. Congrats!
Very impressive work, Kris, both the design and the fabrication! 😃 Your restraint in keeping from "turning the air blue" over the Chineseium lies 👿 is also quite impressive. I am curious to know how much the generator frequency varies between minimum water flow and full flow, because changes in the frequency may affect the ideal sizing of the 3 capacitors that help turn the motor into a generator.
To optimize the microfarads of those caps, it might be useful to insert a 3-phase Variac between the caps and the motor. Then you can, in effect, smoothly vary the capacitance to find the _ideal sweet spot_ of efficiency. Then, based on the Variac results the exact right size of caps can be installed for an efficiency compromise, or _one or more sets_ of extra caps can be selected to vary the effective capacitance in steps, through one or more sets of relays. 🤔
I am also curious about airflow to the fan of the _motor acting as generator,_ since the new cover seems to be very close-fitting over that cooling fan end. Shall we assume that the cover is solid there, with only a tiny gap to let air reach the fan? Or is the cover open there, causing a risk of some water splashing onto the fan of the motor? (I can see that water will not reach the interior of the motor, since the type you chose is TEFC: Totally Enclosed, Fan Cooled) @Kris Harbour Natural Building
Well done. The shape of the buckets can greatly affect the amount of splash as well as the actual torque at the wheel axle you get from any specific diameter wheel. Just something to look into for any future builds. Cupped buckets are far more powerful. Merry Christmas to you and yours.
With a water wheel, it is the mass of the water pulled by gravity that produces the torque that is converted to electrical energy. The straight sides of the buckets maximize the volume, and hence the mass of water in each bucket. Cupping the buckets would reduce the volume in each bucket, reducing the mass, torque, and subsequent energy produced. Cupping is more appropriate for turbine generators where the driving force comes from the directed water jet, as with Kris' home system.
The one thing I could suggest, for a water wheel is to increase the number of buckets, each one then with a smaller volume. This might help with splashing at the higher flow rates, but could also make it worse. Testing would be needed. I'm speaking of a future project, of course. This one is excellent, and I see no need to change anything. Well done, Kris.
@@randybass8842
I built my 8 foot x 2 foot steel water wheel 35 years ago and though it is no longer running I did learn a lot from building it.
You cannot add or lessen volume in a fixed space by cupping or not cupping the buckets, you can only direct water flow inside the bucket itself by cupping, exactly as you would observe in a pelton wheel.
The key to cupping the buckets is to keep as much water as possible in each bucket over the course of its downward rotation between 12 and 6 o'clock. Cupping actually allows for the inflow of water to occur at 11 o'clock instead of at 12:30 o'clock, adding more volume of water being held while slowing the wheel and reducing splashing.
This is what my water wheel looks like with some technical information.
czcams.com/video/dLC3ZWf7WG0/video.html
@EdOfTheNorth , perhaps I misunderstood your definition of cupping. I was thinking of a rounded bottom, like a cup. Are you referring to a curvature from the top outer rim to the bottom of the bucket? I'm not a water wheel expert, and was speaking from a background in physics.
I think diversionary hydro will be an important component in electricity generation globally going forward, its really wonderful to see just how well it can scale down, its probably the only consistent source that can do so safely, and with minimal impact on ecosystems.
Thank you for your work, I enjoy your video's, be safe
hello, I love the amazing work you have done. Thank you for sharing it with us. I would be very curious how much more power the wheel would produce with a piece of rubber containing the splashing.
I wonder about a straw design to keep the water from splashing.
Love this Kris!
Just an idea, if you're going to install a speed monitor and an actuator, why not have a sleuce controller that can cadjust the flow based on either the wheel speed, or the wattage it's producing?
You could then remotely tweak the system in terms of the flow etc to always keep it in the sweetspot.
Not sure how you would design it, but i'm sure you'd be able to.
Always look forward to your videos, never disappointed!
Hi, I was going to say the same thing. If you go to the trouble to design an overspeed shutdown, why not go the rest of the way and make it realtime adjusting speed controller.
Another brilliant video Kris, that wheel is a thing of beauty!
It's simply elegant. Your projects keep building on your knowledge - great respect. 👍
What a fabulous result, I love this Project! Was it problematic to get the allowance of use for the Water? Here in Germany this would be a bureaucratic nightmare.