I Had To Rebuild The Waterwheel, The Driveshaft Snapped!
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- čas přidán 2. 05. 2024
- About three months ago I got a call from the customer saying the wheel keeps shutting itself down. while trying to diagnose the problem over the phone the problem became very clear as the whole drive shaft broke in two. I packed up the tools and went to take it apart to bring it home for a hub rebuild.
A man who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Great cmt @steve.
Thx ✌🏻
The Expert dosen't make mistakes! They got to be an Expert by making all the mistakes where someone else didn't see. 😁
A man who talks in hackneyed and clichéd quotes never learned learned to think for himself and communicate effectively.
Kris didn't make mistakes.
Mistakes is a word armchair experts and know-it-alls use to feel superior.
He did things well in the first place and through experience learns to do better.
It's how people learn.
And those "men" are invading Europe.
Sorry this went wrong on you Kris-but the fact you reasoned out a proper solution is testimony to your skill and intelligence. Keep up the great work.
It takes a real man to admit that he made a mistake, and comes to solve the problem without handing over a bill.
I CAN NOT SAY IT BETTER
Fair play Kris for going back, sorting any issues out and being open about it. You should be humble for sharing your problems and fixes
Great video as always. Been there and done that. Those that build, make mistakes. Keep ‘em coming. I like seeing the creative solutions that you come up with.
I was a certified weld inspector and I was going to say my guess was the shaft needed pre-heating. We had some big 4" shaft fail because of that exact reason. Good for you, you'll get it figured out. There is sooo much to know you can't be expected to know everything about everything right away.
So I guess the heat of the weld vs the cold inside would introduce internal stress into the steel?
I would agree however I would expect the shaft to break on the outside where the load is. I think the end cap was too thin and cause the shaft to flex until it broke. I would add a center support inside the tube after seein this.
@@hayd7371 No, not really stress. You know when knife makers quench the blade to make it hard? They heat it up and then dunk it into oil or water to rapidly cool it. This rapid cooling retain a specific crystalline structure of the steel that would of been lost if it was allowed to cool slowly.
When you weld chunky stuff, similar thing happens. The weld concentrates heat in a relatively small area, and when you're done, the surrounding cool area sucks the heat out from the weld, basically quenching the welded area. There is some stress from the rapid cooling, but the reason it fails under load is because of that locked in crystalline structure that makes it hard and brittle.
@@janosszabo98 'would of'???
@@YoDidz Hey grammar police, how you doing? Can you please let me go with a warning? I really don't need a ticket right now.
You show your character in honorably taking responsibility in the failure and the repair. Great job!!
Now this is what you call customer service ! Nice one Kris
No info is more valuable then field testing. Worked for Caterpillar for years. They spared no expense in designing new equipment. Yet before a new model came put they would send "field follow" machines out to certain customers for them to run for 2k hours then they take the machines back tear them completely apart and inspect everything. In that 2k hours it's amazing at how much stuff fails! Even things and designs that have been used for years but because of one little change it can cause downstream issues. I think you did fantastic and I even thought it was a little overkill the first time you built it! So I definitely think you got a great design now and only can improve from here!!!!
The Old Miller's' spent years learning how their one mill worked. Get new kit , takes time to work out problems and tune the gear.
Great infomation about Cat. I heard the same thing about Rolls Royce: They would run their Merlin engine until something broke, fix it, then run the next iteration until it broke.
Don’t beat yourself up Kris. This is still an amazing project. Putting your hand up to admit there’s a problem, working out the cause, working out a solution, AND documenting the whole process; shows you in a better light than some companies 100 times your size.
Your customer also seems to be a good egg. Keeping you informed of an emerging issue, and having faith in you to resolve it!
Awesome job! 👊🏼
There are only a few people like you Chris left in this country. Thank you sir for being a man of your word, I hope this video pays you back 1000x what this repair cost you. God bless.
Snowball engineering also!!.
This country?? The world!!!!!
I would encourage you to embrace any potential for being wrong and have The Bravery to put yourself out there . That sort of authenticity in these videos is what makes them invaluable. If you do something and it's completely wrong and you're so certain that it's alright and then you show us in fact that you were mistaken and you discover what the truth is, I can't imagine anything more valuable on the planet than seeing that entire thing play out. I thoroughly enjoy watching all of your videos but the ones where things didn't go right and you work through the process of how you thought about it and what you had to do to fix it are the best videos you have in my opinion.
Thank you.
you learn more from failure than from success. probably why humans experience negativity more than positivty.
I like the way you are never beaten Kris. You just get on with it and try again. All part of the learning process.
Great job fixing an issue and your honesty is very refreshing in these times%!!!!
Mate, this had to happen, the learning curve here is steep, but 1/2 million viewers have learnt something with you on this journey. So impressive how you improved this prototype build. Kudus to your client as well, their patience, their enthusiasm, this waterwheel free energy technology is adictive.
All your fans know that you are an honest and talented chap. 👍
This entire project has been a pretty big learning experience for you, that's for sure.
Hi Kris, Large cyclical loads on a high-frequency rotating shaft is classic fatigue failure. The welding certainly would have contributed to the failure but if the shaft was never designed for fatigue failure it still would have broke, welded or not. Sizing for torque based on the smallest diameter dimension is only part of specifying the shaft.
Do you think it‘s ok now with 65mm shaft?
It's called 'Field Testing' for a reason. This is where any design issues show themselves. Don't be let down by this, Kris, all inventors/designers go through this phase of product development. Rarely is a product perfect on the first attempt.
Glad we get to see the progression of development. All part of the process.
Cheers!
Known failure mode.... I don't pay for you to learn on my dime.
@@Failure_Is_An_Option Exactly!!
Thanks for being honest and genuine about your work! Not only is a good thing for your channel, but you're also helping us to avoid those mistakes!
Engineering, Physics, and Machining fix everything. I enjoy watching your mistakes not because I don't make my own, but because I am also a member of the "My Fault" club.
Yep.
And seeing all this knowledge put it in practice makes me respect a lot more the ancient craftsmen.
With all the technology and knowledge at the tip of the finger, doing it properly takes so much time and effort.
Imagine doing this centuries ago. And they did it.
Outstanding work and always positive to acknowledge one's mistakes. A man who never made a mistake has never done anything. Thank you for this fascinating series of videos.
A man that can talk about his mistakes and fix them is a real man! Your customer service is what your business make stand out! Thanks for taking us with you and thank you for your honesty.
As an engineer I really appreciated this fault finding and fixing video. Kudos to you Kris for a great approach to solving this issue, professionally with great workmanship. Exactly the reason why your channel is one of the few I have the notifications bell set on. Keep up the great work!
More accurately said: the welder didn’t know how to weld this design. Good news! You do now! Learning is everything! Redo’s are always better! Thanks for sharing!
I worked as an Industrial
mechanic, millwright for 50 years that is the correct design same as on large exhaust fans
, good rebuild.
I'm keen to understand how the new system locks the wheel in place on the axle. My idea would have been to machine a floating hub that the wheel can bolt to, in the same way a car wheel bolts to an axle. The "wheel nuts" only deal with the rotational force, and the wheel resting on the hub on the axle handles the weight of the wheel.
@@Richard_AKL The hubs are tapered has you tighten the bolts the tighter it grips the shaft.
Hats off to you for owning these issues and hats off to the customer for being so understanding. This is how progress is made and I would hope that in the long run its beneficial for both this customer, your knowledge of the craft and your ability to continue this kind of work. Its bloody fascinating to watch anyway!
It’s likely not the torque that killed it, but the bending of the shaft between the two bearings. The whole weight of wheel and water is on there, and rotating as well. Repeated bending -> fatigue break.
my thoughts exactly. Metal fatigue, rotating bending. Also the welds may be strong for static loads, but for fatigue loading they are much weaker than the shaft material.
Same thoughts. Needs roller bearings, not ball.
Agree. Fatigue analysis in ships and large structures concentrates almost exclusively on welds, as they have a much worse fatigue curve than anything else.
Basically the fatigue cracks have already been initiated in the welds as there is no such thing as a crack-less weld.
So, preferably design the structure such that the welds are not in the main stress area of a repeated stress range, such as the surface of a rotating axle that is in bending (repeated tension-compression).
The repeated stress range opens up any tiny crack and propagates it through the structure until it fails.
You can design for it (ships have butt welds that run through the entire hull section) but the welds need a lot of attention and the rules take the fatigue into account.
For a shaft you could probably weld to it, provided you have a bulge on it (trumpet shaped on either end) where the flange connects, to take the weld out of the axle's stress range. That bulge may be fabricated by turning down a very large diameter axle to the shape you need (a lot of waste) or have a forging (expensive and maybe not for relatively simple engineering).
Your solution with a clamped collar does away with the welding altogether so your fatigue life is vastly improved, because you have no crack initiation.
Besides that you have done away with the stress concentration (which a welded flange on an axle is as well).
Well done, you've got a solid structure now I should think.
I would argue that the welds themselves and the material is perfectly fine. THe problem is his experience With welding. Depending on the material I'm going to say that he didn't pre-heat the shaft and surounding metal and then let it slowly cool down. When you don't pre-heat large or thick pieces of steel (specially harder ones) the main piece and weld will properly meld and be strong but because the rest of the shaft is cold it will rapidly pull the heat away causing it to essentially harden but ONLY at the welding area causing stress fractures.
Spot on.
My own thought would have been to construct the waterwheel to have received water from a millrace rather than over the water shooting over the top. But I am still appreciative of the corrective efforts made here.
Your honesty and character are beautiful and a large part of why I enjoy your channel. Keep up the great work!
Kris, you are a noble and refreshingly accountable gentleman. Set-backs sure do allow a person to improve designs, as frustrating as they are. Thomas Edison sure had his share, and today we are so grateful for his perseverance. Best of success to you, Kris.
Fair play for being straight up and honest. The solution’s absolutely solid looking. Amazing skills.
A big learning curve. Well done Kris, taking the financial hit and putting it right is exactly how I would approach this. You're a good man.
I Mac 1944.
You are an all round engineer Kris, wood, stone, hydraulic and metal of any kind, it's a pleasure viewing your work. Your honesty is a credit to you.
It is nice to watch somebody who is happy and willing to see their mistake and also spend the time and money to rectify it. Hats off to you fella, the customer make a great choice hiring you. 👍
So glad The Algorithm brought this back. Really enjoyed the original build, and great to see your integrity with the repair. I'm pretty sure you've got it right this time!
And kudos to your customer giving you the ‘room’ to customise as needed to get the right product for their situation and when something that is so bespoke such teething problems should be expected. Well done for getting it sorted so well. Great advertisement for your business.
I totally respect a person who owns a mistake, doesn't dwell on it, and focuses on a better fix. 👍👍👍
Making things right for your customers is the best marketing plan your going to ever need.
Above all else your integrity really shines through. I truly admire your work, but your work ethic and morals even more
Your skill and integrity is commendable. Well done Kris.
Integrity, honesty, and hard graft or your hallmaks Kris. Excellent work, great engineering... Well done
Another testament to your integrity. I've heard it said by wiser men than myself that mistakes are an opportunity to learn something new. You have proven it to be true.
Smart Move Kris! Live and learn they say. Thanx for taking us along for the ride.
I'm glad there are still people like you. Thanks for your honesty 👍🏻
Retired QHSE manager here. You might want to think about eye protection while you’re machining 😉
Great channel, I’ve followed this project closely 👍👏👏👏👏
Admirable work Kris. It’s really hard as a tiny operation to eat the costs of this kind of failure, and the fact that you present it all so transparently is a credit to you.
As they say, you live and learn, so hopefully this doesn’t happen in the future projects that must be coming your way.
I like the new no-weld design, it’ll make it easier to change out parts for future revisions of the water wheel.
Love the fact you don't hide the mistakes ,makes this channel one of the best on CZcams. Keep it up
Too few people like this left in the world. Well done Kris!
Pretty amazing when you think about it. You have the ability to build almost anything. And you do it in a hand built shop of mud, straw, and wood, that is powered by hydro and solar. Plus, you're an incredible engineer and woodworker. There's a reason I wait for your videos to drop. Great job again Kris.
Well done Kris.........yet again.............. You didn't make any mistakes, you just gained the knowledge at a slightly slower pace than the work progressed, then you reasoned it out and applied it accordingly. ................Rome wasn't built in a day and considering everything else you are doing I think you're doing excellently. Keep it up it's still incredibly enjoying to see.
Thats why the term tinkering around came about. You built a great water wheel & power generation unit.
Well done sir. Good work.
Wisdom doesn't come from getting it right every time. Well done 👍
well done. Took ownership, solved the problem. Great solution and customer service.
Well done mate! ‘Experience is the best teacher but the school fees are high’.
True craftsmen like you are far and few . Accept your mistakes learn from them and know more when everything is said and done .. Great job
Engineer here and long time follower! Fantastic to watch this project evolve, really great to see you learning and ever improving. Those torque collars are very cool, I've never come across them!
Sorry to hear that it happened, kuddos for the transparency 🌷👍
In Nova Scotia they where trying to harness the ocean currents their first try failed in a simulator way they had to beef up the structural strength to have it last ! IMO
Its more important to show failures and "what could have been done better" in videos to show progress is about hard work and mistakes along the way. But my god man you are an inspiration with your absolutely mind melting variety of skills and abilities when it comes to building stuff.
Great work Kris .. It's all part of the learning process. Helping save the planet one water wheel at a time.
Hey Kris, this was your first water wheel .
It lasted for many months.You got this 👍🏻
That was bad news, Kris. All these things are sent to try us. But you stood up to it despite it being soul destroying. Well done, Sir. It's now a belt and braces job. Amazing skill and perseverance👍👍.
Admire your honesty Kris. I'm not sure that "It looks like we've cracked it" was the best choice of words when you fixed it though!🤣
hah! I went wide eyed when he said that! You gotta be kidding me!! .. oh.. wait... Common Vernacular Barrier! Fwewf!
Lucky it broke! The knowledge gained is invaluable! Bang up job sir!
Rest assured you have a customer for life and solid reference for any future customers.. Doing what is right will pay off in the future.
Amazing Kris! nearest thing to precision engineering in a wattle and daub cowshed, absolutely remarkable. Your problem solving skills are a match for your humility, keep pushing the limits and sharing this wonderful content.
I appreciate your honesty and unflinching analysis of what went wrong. Such a valuable trait for a person to have. I know you are beating yourself up even now but I bet your customer has a smile on their face.
Sumitomo sells planetary and other gearsets for industrial applications that would drive a wheel 10x that size. You can usually source them from factories and other heavy industry facilities that are making capital upgrades. In the U.S. I snagged a 649:1 gear reducer for a 5.33HP 1750RPM motor for $350 with delivery a few years back.
Great job problem solving and explaining your thought process. Coping with failure is all part of the creative process. Well done job.
I've been watching your saga for a while now. Glad to see your customer hanging with you. You will get it right.
Hi kris , the honesty and transparency of the engineering failures and the way you find the solutions is admirable , keep up the good work mate
Back in the early days of steam a slack tolerance shaft to wheel was used, any gap was filled with iron filings an urine was poured on. When it came to time to scrap the wheel had to be cut off as the cut was so tight, this led to the expression A Piss Fit. The profit from your build is experience, good luck with your future projects and the barn build.
I agree, no use of fretting too much about the mistake - someone wiser than me realised that without making mistakes no one learns or grow. I enjoy watching and looking you work.
I've just started watching some of your videos, I spent 35 years as an agricultural engineer, in my time I serviced and fixed a lot of combine harvesters, when I saw you weld that shaft, I was thinking why doesn't he fit a big boss each side and just use a tapered key to hold it tight.
It's not so common nowadays to use such stuff, but have seen well over 500hp going through such stuff and very few failures.
Anyway, no one gets everything right first time, and I like a man who can overcome problems, there's not many left around nowadays.
Great channel by the way 👍
Well done Kris I admire your honesty and if future customers are watching it will stand you in good stead
Thanks for the update.
Trial and Success
Great job as usual !!!!! And its great to see someone that stands behind their work. Always a fan of your videos.
"Kris, your recent project setback turned into a showcase of your resilience and expertise. Despite encountering a challenge, you demonstrated remarkable problem-solving skills and dedication. Your transparency in acknowledging the issue, analyzing its root cause, and implementing a solution speaks volumes about your professionalism and integrity. The support from your customer and the collective learning experience shared with half a million viewers further highlight the positive impact of your work. Your commitment to continuous improvement and excellence, evident in every step of the process, sets a shining example for both peers and larger companies. Keep up the fantastic work, Kris, as your approach embodies true customer service and engineering excellence!"
ChatGPT.
I can only speak for me, but if I was that customer, I would pay you for the extra you spent in 'material', at least! You have put so much work in this waterwheel and generator.
Very impressive work to stand behind your product and deliver for your customer. One thought about your new system. You have a couple of friction fits where you have a tiny gap between the shaft and the part that goes around it or the part that goes around it and goes to the hub. While these gaps are indeed tiny they're still large relative to water molecules. Water molecules love to get into anywhere. So a core question that is worth asking is what is the electrical potential for oxidation between the two steels the shaft and the hub and the hub and the water wheel. If you have a galvanic potential between those two you will have the opportunity for corrosion. The corrosion product is bigger than the steel and so things will tend to want to lock up. Part of that is good it flugs up the gap part of that is not so good makes it almost impossible to get things back apart. To whatever extent you can protect the tiny gaps from water intrusion would be a bonus. Whatever extent you could use steels which avoid the corrosion is a bonus point. Of course it's been installed for 2 months now and the environment is doing its best to cause problems and you're doing your best to keep it from doing that. Best wishes I enjoy your work greatly I'm impressed by your engineering skill
Hi, Thanks for that. I dont think I will get much corrosion from the locking bushes to the shaft or end plates. the locking bushes are coated and the shaft having such a high amount of chrome in it means it won't corrode anytime soon. But galvanic corrosion can always be an issue due to the wet conditions. However I can't see that effecting the shaft or locking tapper because they are exerting so much force in to the end caps that there is no space for water. Im sure water can find its way to most other parts but the actual friction area of the bushes will be water tight. water can however find its way in to the hub tube so if I go back and find it has filled with water I will put in some drain holes to let it out. Thanks for the comment.
Amazing job Kris! You have gone above and beyond on this one! What a testament to your character! I really enjoy your channel!
I feel your pain. There goes not only any profit you ever managed to earn but this will be an expensive loss. Multiple drive times back and forth, disassembly, remanufacturing the entire center shaft, more driving and reassembling. Not to mention to any of the electronic devices. Ouch!
But your obviously a man of your word and word gets around about the quality of your work.
Machining a nice wheel hub would help a lot, I guess.
Weld zone/heat affected metal likely flexed and fatiqued which then broke the shaft.
Wheel hub from thick welded plates, a nicely machined hole, torque with woodruff key on both sides, should last forever.
Hi Kris, there's this german guy with a 10kw water wheel (Niederurff). He says there's no way around storing the shaft on hardwood. other water millers confirm this, too, he says. The wood absorbs the vibrations and thus reduces stress on the steel parts. He now uses ruby, before he had oak.
I do keep seeing this too - I'm curious what Kris and others here think about this.
proud of your you bro showed us how a professional handles and addresses a mistake much respect from Southern California
Absolutely grade A 10/10 series. If I ever want to build one, I'll be coming here first.
So glad to see u back
Everyday is a school day Kris, this is a much nicer solution, just remember if it were that easy everyone would be doing it, excellent project , don’t forget this really was a prototype, well done
I'm a chartered mechanical engineer and experienced expert in the fatigue mode of failure. I would say that the failure was not due to a lack of strength, or due to cracks causing stress concentrations which cause lack of strength. I expect that the issue is cyclic fatigue failure. Tiny weld cracks grew due to rapid cyclic service, and after each rotation of the wheel the weld cracks grew a tiny bit more until there was no material left (i.e. cyclic fatigue failure). Pre-heating the weld would have created a starting point of having much smaller cracks which would have increased the life from one month to perhaps six months. If you had welded your new larger shaft with pre-heat, it would fail due to fatigue at a year or so.
Any welded shaft (or mechanical equipment) which has rapid cycling at moderate stress range (across the cycle) will fail due to the growth of the cracks in the weld, even if the cracks are made very small by using an optimum weld technique. Even an unwelded shaft will fail due to fatigue at some point if the cyclic stress range is greater than half yield. The starting crack for an unwelded shaft is the material grain boundary. The fatigue life of your new unwelded shaft will be many decades,v if crack don't grow due to corrosion.
I made a similar comment three months ago.
I've made a few equivalent naive mistakes to your one, over the years. They are a immensely good learning experiences. Mine were mainly due to underestimating weld distortion of precision machined components.
This is how engineers learnt what they know trial and error until it could be described in math and physics.
It's fascinating to understand what went wrong, cheers Kris 🙌
And it's heartening to see an engineer with over half a million subs 😊
Excellent, it takes a true craftsman to realize he’s mistake/problems and solve it. Great job Kris enjoy your videos. Have a great Sunday!!🍻😎
This is the way how we all learn, i am sorry for you it was a costly one, but respect, you stood for it , and resolved it, that is how a true man behaves!
Watching the way you work is an absolute pleasure. 💯
I would much rather have an honest and reputable fabricator than a know it all. Thanks for sharing your projects.
Great fixing of the wheel section. You are amazingly talented man. 🐻🙏🇺🇸
Standing by your product,Means a lot these days
I reckon the client should get involved with the cost! That waterwheel is amazing and the fix solution is double amazing. If it cost 20k, its cheap.....30k and maybe id wear the cost too.its a marvel! well done Kris
Kris
Glad to see the switch to the taper locks on the shaft! Great choice. I have used these style many times though my career and they work great 👍🏼
Cheers 🍻
I enjoy the practicalities but also your determination and integrity to make it good
At times like these I always refer to quotes by those that have gone before us, my favourite and one that I have up in my little workshop is from Sir Barnes Wallis. 'You gentlemen are really carrying out the third of three experiments. We have tried it out on model dams, also a dam one-fifth in the size of the Mohne dam. I cannot guarantee it will come off, but I hope it will.' I know his quote came from the midst of war but feel its so apt for many things since that time, but like yourself he was also a genius. 👍
Kris, you are an inspiration. Your honesty is v commendable.
Good on ya, brother for taking full accountability and also for your thorough analysis of the failure mode. You can’t be assured of your fix if you don’t understand what actually went wrong.
This is why I love this channel. If you don’t make mistakes you don’t learn. Being a tradesman for over 40 years I’ve made many! Great to see the thought your thought process in redesign.