Yes it works well ive done that back in the 90s. Brand new motor home that vibrated so bad it would open cabinet doors inside. I put a couple hose clamps on the drive shaft and kept adjusting until it was nearly gone. They had just been in a dealership in Florida where they had a new rear end installed under warranty. I fixed it with a couple of hose clamps and amazed everyone.
Thank you for the effort put into this video. I took my 4x4 with a split prop shaft to a drive shaft centre to balance it and was told they don't have the equipment to do this. Lol. Your video may be the basis for a good business in an uneducated market where the experts have no skills. I remanufactured my suspension and drive train bushings and centre mount flex bearing with polyurethane adhesive and this was the final step. Well done sir.
Thank you. This procedure worked fantastic on a Yanmar sub-compact tractor mid PTO extension drive shaft that connects to a front mount PTO pillow block for the snowblower.... smooth as silk now.
Wow! Awesome video, so helpful when you own an old Mercedes. Now if I can just figure out how to build my own portable 4 post lift... I will be doing this soon. Thank you so much for making this video, it is truly appreciated.
Man that’s awesome, I never would’ve thought of doing that, I’m chasing down a crazy vibration in my driveshaft I have replaced the ujoints on my 2 wd expedition but still getting random shaking this may just do the trick, thank you so much I’ll update you when I get it done and see if I’m able to improve it. Also a little scared to do this with just jackstands under the vehicle, if somehow it was to come down I’ll have a giant hole in my wall LOL. Thanks again
Yes, this is dangerous. I suggest a pair of jack stands under the axle and a second pair of jack stands under the frame about 1/4" - 1/2" below the frame so the weight is on the axle. If it slips off the second set of jack stands should catch it. This works but please be careful. Double check the slip joint that goes into the end of the transmission if this is a one piece driveshaft. look for wear and put some lithium based grease on the splines. If the vehicle is raised up with larger tires you may need to check the operational angles on both U-Joints. If this is a two piece driveshaft and the driveshaft has been separated in the middle it is possible to put these back together on the wrong splines affecting the phasing of the driveshaft. Normally the driveshaft Yokes should all be in alignment with each other.
Look to see if you have a 2 part driveshaft. If it was ever taken apart in the middle it could have been put back together wrong. If so, this cause what is called a phasing problem and this can cause a lot of driveshaft vibration.
@@tonymtz1 you can't correct phasing with weights. you must separate and realign the driveshaft halves so the u-joint crosses are lined up with each other. FYI, every old BMW I've bought has had the driveshaft incorrectly phased. sad....
video was very useful, i had to replace the center bearing on a two piece drive shaft on a Ford Territory. It went fine until i realized i didn't mark the splines in the center as to where they went back together. the water trick didn't work as well since it was supported and didn't transmit the same shock waves except i could feel it from the driver seat. so i jacked up the rear wheels, marked the spline i was on and drove it similar to your setup with the wheels in the air. after moving the splines around i found the one sweet spot where it didn't vibrate anymore. thanks for the ideas on what to do.
Thank you! I've replaced both my cv axles balanced my wheels and all my suspension but was getting vibration. I used this technique on my cv and it greatly improved the vibration! thank you!
It's highly unusual that a front CV axle would need balancing but if it worked great. Often CV axles will vibrate on acceleration and smooth out when you let off on the gas. This is often caused by a binding inner CV joint. Don't let the fact that you just replaced the axle fool you. I have seen defective replacement axles. Another thing to consider that effects front CV axle alignment is defective and sagging motor and transaxle mounts and misaligned subframes.
Hey there. Where have you found the issue? Was there also a radial play on the axle shaft before? Did you put counter weights according to that play? Or was it all trial and error? Thanks.
Brilliant! I'm a qualified aviation tech and have used a host of expensive balancing equipment in my time on fixed and rotary wing, but the water-in-a-cup technique is pure genius. I just discovered my Landcruiser front shaft is out of phase so I have a 50:50 chance of correctly realigning it on the splines of the sliding yolk. A variation of your technique should help get the phasing correct, in my home garage, in line with the original factory shaft balancing. Then I can fine tune even further with hose clamps (though I probably wont bother with that last step).
Awesome video thanks, this will certainly help me with my 1990 Nissan D-21. After installing that Center support bearing something went out of whack, and now I'm feeling some vibration at 40 mph. I was trying to make out why you needed magnets for your tester, and why you were marking the driveshaft with the "0" and the "1's" now it all makes sense to me. Thanks for that great tutorial.
When you changed your center bearing you had to separate the two piece driveshaft. Did you mark the two halves and return them to the same location? If not your driveshaft is most likely out of phase. The U-joint yokes need to be in alignment with each other. You might want to check this before balancing.
DrivelineMaster - You were right.....THANKS!!!!, It seems that the two (2) Driveshafts were out of phase. Not knowing first hand the original position of the two (2) shafts, I repositioned (or turned) the 2nd shaft 180° from the it's present position. I test drove it and the vibrations have been reduced tremendously. Thanks again.
from experience w/a van that had a long and short drive shaft setup chances are they are out of phase w/each other. if they are not keyed you can move the rear long shaft "u" joint to line up in same plane as the "u" joint from the transmission
@@DrivelineMaster I have a 1990 Nissan Skyline n they are somewhat similar in setup to the d-21 pickup.. iT was this section that really made me go back n check my drive shaft... I didn't do any markings on mine but I know better next time. I changed my center support bearing but when I was setting everything up, the piece that I put on after the center support that the other piece of drive shaft is bolted to was causing the u-joints to be out of line... so I took down everything, aligned that piece so that when the other half is up, everyone would be aligned. At the point of typing this, I haven't road tested it as yet but while on the jack stands and shifting through the gears, OMG, a world of difference so far !!!
Awsome video. Thanks again. I found a vibration app on my phone. Works great to find the frequency and to see if it's is getting worse or better. It's free! better that buying a $1000 fluke to read vibration. 👍🏼
Excellent video, I had read a similar procedure in a MercedesBenz manual that was way more guess and check, but your take is way easier and more repeatable.
In much earlier years I could rest my hand on the vehicle to interpret the level of vibration however I like the visuals and sensitivity of the water glass.
this was really cool. thanks for the work you put in to show us. I'm having (what I think is) a driveshaft issue in my 2012 f150 (lariat s-crew) and I'll be trying this method to eliminate the 60mph and 75-80 mph vibration. cheers!
What type wheels do you have? Worked for years at Ford dealership and we had vibration issues with the steel wheels. If possible, swap a set of alloys from a different truck and see if vibration goes away.
I used to do this in the 80's when building cars for different race events and having to change rear axles so would cut and shut propshafts ( you call them drive lines in the U.S I believe) After doing as best a balance off the car, then on the car using the exact same method. The jubilee clips well tightened never came off when left tight in place.
i had some thieves cut half way through my driveshaft while trying to steal the catalytic converter....they gave up and left a lot of damage. I welded the shaft, but as you would guess vibration galore. It's an AWD CRV so this technique will be a challenge. Great video!
It will be near impossible to make sure the driveshaft turns true after welding it let alone balancing it. Unfortunately I would recommend replacing it or taking it to a driveshaft specialty shop to have it fixed.
@@DrivelineMaster Thanks....$135 free shipping on ebay is not so bad. It's cheaper than knocking out a transfer case or differential bearing with all that vibration.
Great work brother! I have a F250 I have a vibration at 50mph -70mph. Ford dealership could not find the issue. I'm gonna break out the hose clams and see if i can fix it myself.
Yes this will work on any driveshaft just not necessary for front wheel drive half shafts. Just be careful around spinning objects. If this is a truck with big tires you may want to consider removing the wheels. Just make sure to put a few lug nuts back on to hold the drums or rotors in place.
@@DrivelineMaster Should the opposite side of the same tube also be balanced? Ie: the transmission side. And, possible have a front and rear balance weight. If a vehicle has a long drive shaft with a carrier bearing should the same be done to both tubes?
When a driveshaft is professionally balance there is often balance weights at both ends of the driveshaft. More often than not the front end of the driveshaft is inaccessible when it is in the vehicle for this balancing technique. Often if you have a small imbalance in the driveshaft it can be corrected by just doing the rear. Technically you are correct.
very good video; i would definitely do it with the wheels off though (with lug nuts holding the drums/rotors on) in order to not have wheel imbalance affecting your readings. is there an approximate weight equivalent to the hose clamps for a washer so that we can attach a permanent weight to the driveshaft? also, how do you figure out which end of the driveshaft to put the balance on?
i guess he was assuming this is a procedure for people that don't want to replace their rims and tires, maybe proper way would actually be with brand new tires and balanced wheels
I have just replaced a right drive shaft(front wheel drive) with a reconditioned one. Just wondering, will there be any long term impact if I feel slight vibration at my foot rest while driving? Do I need to do a drive shaft balancing?
hmm... seems hairy lol. I'm just wondering if you ever spin your tires and experience wheel hop, or any other jolting if the hose clamps can potentially slip and move throwing it all off? Or do they seem pretty reliable over all
Tires need to be in balance before performing this job. If the tires are removed before doing this then the brake drums or rotors should also be removed before hand. It's not likely that the hose clamps will come off. It's not very common for a driveshaft to be out of balance but just in case it can be re-balanced using this technique. After balancing the driveshaft using this technique and confirming that this solved the vehicle vibration problem the driveshaft can be removed and sent to a professional balance machine shop to have the counter balance welded to the driveshaft with full confidence that the vibration problem is solved.
Hello, Driveshaft Balancing. Thank you for a great video. I have a 2008 Jeep Patriot with a manual transmission and a front-wheel drive. I replaced the front CV Axles, intermediate shaft (passenger side), front struts/shocks (now the Patriot is a little higher because the new struts/shocks assemblies are higher than its old strut/shock assemblies), motor and transmission mounts. Here is the problem: I can visually see how the passenger's-side CV axle is rotating out of center (and so is the driver's-side CV axle, but not as much as the passenger's-side) AND the vehicle has a sideways vibration between EXACTLY 20 miles per hour and 30 miles per hour. Below 20 m.p.h. and above 30 m.p.h, the Jeep runs and drives flawlessly. Question 1: Will balancing both CV axles eliminate the vibration? Question 2: How do I know that a motor and/or transmission mount may be the culprit?
You typically would not balance FWD half shafts. Is the vibration load sensitive. In other words does it come and go or get better or worse if you are accelerating or letting off on the gas? If so, the problem is driveline related. If not, it may not be driveline related. Where do you feel the vibration? In the seat of your pants or more in the steering wheel. Steering wheel vibration is more likely tires, wheels, alignment, steering or suspension related as compared to driveline related. I wouldn't be trying to balance the halfshafts and instead I would be looking for another cause for your vibration.
@@tb-skyline-auto9836 Thank you for your previous message. You are correct. The vibration is felt in the seat of my pants. It is load-sensitive. I.am.not.an expert. If the vibration is driveline-related, what should I be inspecting then? Pardon my ignorance, what is the driveline?
Very old school and yet it still works good. In the olden days I could just feel the vibration but you can't show that in a video so I had to come up with a way to visualize the vibration with a cup of water.
Thank for revealing this secret drive line master.i have same problem with my montero sport.one thing I noticed was that, the rubber holding center support bearing worn out ,can this cause vibration especially on high speed ?
Absolutely. If you know the center support bearing and or rubber around the bearing is worn out replace it first. While the driveshaft is out for the bearing perform a close inspection of the U-Joints to make sure there is no looseness and that they move smooth through their entire range of motion. Additionally, inspect the driveshaft to make sure the balance weights have not fallen off and there are no dents in the shaft.
First of all this is a car not a truck. Since the suspension was compressed there is no harm or abnormal wear and tear on the drivetrain or the engine. In fact since the load is less the wear and tear is reduced compared to fully loaded. Maybe 5 miles at the most.
Does the counter balance stay on the whole time with tape? I assume so since it's part of the balanced driveshaft when complete. Why is the counter balance put on in the first place? To find the high spot assume?
Please let me explain. This driveshaft was already in balance when I started this video. I needed to knock it out of balance for demonstration purpose so I placed a weight under the tape to do this. This would not normally be part of balancing a driveshaft. Pretend it's not even there.
This is a low tech method with no counterweight calculations. We just use the heads of the hose clamps and the rotational position of each hose clamp helps to distribute the counter weight. The head of the hose clamp is the counterweight.
Do you leave the heavyweight with the electrical tape on there, seems like it wouldn’t be long before that would start to unravel in the heat? I thought at some point after you got the basic heavy points that you would take that tape and weight off and just go with the hose clamps?
You are not the only one. The weight under the tape is not normal. The driveshaft on this vehicle was not out of balance. For the purpose of demonstration I needed to do something to make this driveshaft out of balance. So, the weight under the tape was used to knock this driveshaft out of balance so I could demonstrate the procedure.
DrivelineMaster , Thanks for the update, I thought about it later and realized you had probably just done that to make the driveshaft out of balance for the demonstration, which is exactly what you did so thanks for clarifying.
What might be the actual frequency in hertz (cycles per second) of the vibration here? Or, the hertz of a typical drive shaft imbalance at 60 mph (100 km/h)?
For finding the high spot, it appears the vehicle is held up by the body, leaving the rear drive hanging on the suspension. Is it necessary to do it this way just for finding the high spot..?? Also, does it matter where on the driveshaft(front to rear) that the counterweight is placed..??
It's not necessary to hand the suspension to find the high spot. I only did it this way because I had a lift and I could raise the car all the way up making it simpler. Most driveshafts will have counter weights at the front and rear but often the front does not have enough access room to get into it so normally only the rear is done. The rear is also where most of the vibration will take place. Normally you can perform this process on the rear and solve the balance problem and the front does not need to be done. Once I discover that my balance job has solved my problem I will often remove the driveshaft and send it out for profession balancing but it's not really necessary.
With the tires on how do you know if the vibration is from the driveshaft and not from an out of balance wheel. Also, the axle should be down on the jack stands from the get go to get an accurate reading as the stands will remove a lot of the movement from the imbalance.
Ideally the tires should be removed however when visual vibration is improved by changing the location of the hose clamps this is verification that the hose clamp location is influencing the vibration and improving the driveshaft balance. Driveshafts are not a common cause for vibrations and normally the first steps in isolating a vibration is to have the tires balanced. Since I knew the tires were in balance I decided it was not necessary to remove them. I start out with the wheels and suspension suspended for ease of video visuals however if you watch closely you will see when I perform the final vibration analysis the suspension is compressed with the axle resting on jack stands. This is important because it ensures the driveshaft and u-joint angles are at proper operational angles.
@@DrivelineMaster The very bet way to balance tires are on the car. Not taking them off to balance. Then go for drive shaft balance but good video thanks
@@Americanrebuild hes not trying to balance the tires hes balancing the D/S. your comment makes no sense either because there are wheel balancer machines or tools and you specifically need the tires off to balance unless you have a third world way of doing things.
On a 4wd do I need to support the front and the rear to get it into drive angle? Is it possible to damage something when not in drive angle? I have a lift..... thanks for showing this method
You can drive your 4WD with the suspension hanging without damaging anything however additional vibration can be induced from the excessive driveline angle. If you are balancing the rear driveshaft and your vehicle is able to disengage the front driveshaft so it doesn't spin you can let it hang. If you are balancing the front or it is spinning while balancing the rear then you need to compress the suspension.
@@DrivelineMaster I have another question. If I change the CV joints with the ones in this link www.ebay.de/i/202952788926?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=707-134425-41852-0&mkcid=2&itemid=202952788926&targetid=899896891158&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=9041951&poi=&campaignid=10199424670&mkgroupid=101937415197&rlsatarget=aud-558316661744:pla-899896891158&abcId=1145992&merchantid=110064182&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjer4BRCZARIsABK4QeUirfkO4vR99wEXA2zh848s3Yr0c0WHKRfaya8D3OaQ8p_oMXOiCY8aAoMEEALw_wcB Do I need to balance the driveshaft?
Might be a dumb question, but why not just put the hose clamps on where the old weight used to be on the shaft since that’s where the techs found the opposite of the heavy spot to be?
No question is dumb. Yes, you could do that if you can tell where the old weights come off from. Finding the heavy spot with chalk can be accurate to locating the heavy spot.
Although most driveshafts have balance weights at both ends in most cases it's near impossible to gain access to the front of the driveshaft so I have always started with the rear of the driveshaft.
Thanks for replying. One additional question: What would be the process of diagnosis elimination on a vibrating steering wheel with 20X8.5s on an 11 Altima? (What is checked first, second etc. before going to the D shaft if needed). Thanks again.
Driveshaft vibrations are normally felt through the seat of your pants and not so much in the steering wheel. Steering wheel vibrations are often caused by tires and wheels being out of round and out of balance. Steering wheel vibrations can also be caused by looseness in the steering or suspension system. Have your steering and suspension inspected and have your tires and wheels inspected and balanced. If the vibration only happens when braking then the problem is most likely brake rotors that are not parallel or there is too much thickness variation. Replacing and or machining the rotors normally take care of this. Brake drums can sometimes cause this but it's rare. With big tires and rims I suspect this is your problem. The bigger the tires the harder they are to balance. If you have a small sidewall on the tire in order to make the large rims fit this makes the road surface more noticeable and the road imperfections can be felt more by the vehicle suspension making it difficult to absorb vibrations preventing them form being felt by the passengers.
Thank you for getting back. Can prying the tires while mounting with undue force be cause of wheels to go slightly off round, therefore, part of a wheel-vibrating issue.
@@Montery12 Typically wheels are not bent on the mounting machine however they are not perfect from the factory and they can be damaged from pot holes and curbs. They can be excessively out of round right out of the box. This in not common but it can't be ruled out. A good tire shop should be able to diagnose any tire, wheel, steering or suspension vibration problem. Driveshaft vibrations are more rare.
The two cross u-joint is called a Constant Velocity U-joint. Normally 4" to 5" from the joint. Make sure there is not already a balance weight there. Then spin up the driveshaft and hold the chalk close so it barely touches to locate the heavy spot.
@@theone0168 The U-joints are on the end so 5-6" towards the center of the driveshaft. This is normally where the factory balance weight goes so this doesn't have to be exact. If the balance weight is in the way just move your clamps to accommodate the factory balance weight.
My prop shaft bearing kept failing and i did not know why. Replaced the transmission and rear axle because i thought it was a bearing there, not realizing the new prop shaft bearing had failed prematurely. I figured it out once i replaced the bearing support rubber to a stiffer one (incorrectly manufactured). Then the vibrations were really strong in the car at around 40 mph. It also made a low frequency sound as if the subwoofer was playing at 30 hz or something. First then i realized what was the root of the problem. It should have been apparent when looking at the prop shaft, that the balance weights were damaged from rust. While i thought then this was no biggie, now i realize the bad balance is putting a huge load on the bearing, like a hammer smashing it 1000 times per minute, and eventually destroys it. Now i've followed this video, but i did not use a glass of water, i used my fingertips and felt the bearing support crossmember as the car was on cruise control at around 40 mph, finding a spot where i felt the least vibration.
I hope this helped. I too used to just feel the vibration but it's difficult to demonstrate that in a video. The water glass is much easier to show the vibration.
Thank you. About a year ago I looked and looked all over youtube and Vimeo for a quality video showing the process for balancing RWD driveshafts while still on the car. Well at that time there were none. Well that was not 100% true, I found a few really lousy videos that were not worth watching. When I got the water glass idea for viewing vibration I set forth on my quest. The result is this high quality video that I'm proud of.
Yeah the best videos is always the ones that everyone can understand, even though most dont have common sense, but atleast with this I feel comfortable doing my own since its pretty straight forward. Keep up the good work though
Yes. if you want to take the extra steps. If you really truly want to only balance the driveshaft the brakes should be removed including the drums or rotors. If you think about it though when you drive down the road your tires will be on and if you start with balanced tires this works just fine with the tires on. I have a really expensive balancing tool and with their instructions they don't mention taking the tires off so I just left mine on.
If there is a driveshaft that enters a differential than this method can be used. If you have a truck with large tires I would recommend removing the tires. Make sure to put the lug nuts or bolts back into the hub without the tires mounted to secure the drums or rotors.
Shared great video, my car vibrates when I drive at speed 25 after I replaced a transmission I will update the end result. Part 2 update, Mecanic replaced driveshaft center support and the vibration is gone, transmission shifting smoothly I pay $130 for driveshaft center support replacement and $430 for transmission replacement and I pay $350 for the transmission from a junkyard with 6 months warranty I’m happy with the end results I think I pay a fair price for part and labor, this is a 95 Lexus sc 300.
Does your car have a 2 piece driveshaft? Did you separate it in the middle? If so, you may have put it back together out of phase inducing a vibration.
Part 2 update,Mecanic just replaced driveshaft center support today and the vibration is gone!!! the transmission shift smoothly I hope this info can help others.
I’m sorry I don’t understand your question, the Mecanic show me the problem under the car he replaced and now my car is driving perfectly my car is very old
Yea, I decided to video how to size the hose clamps after I had already cut the Napa clamps and all I had in the shop was Tridon's. I then edited and inserted the cutting at the appropriate time in the video. Good catch. In some of my videos i will show how to tighten something but I forgot to video loosening so I just take the frames from tightening and reverse them and it make them look like I'm loosening. The wonders of video editing software. I love it!
how about two lasers mounted on the diff pointing on the ground and on the wall..... measuring span distance and readjusting accordingly on different points on the shaft .....
The extra weight and tape to hold it in place was used specifically just for this video. I purposely wanted the driveshaft to be out of balance to show my users what the vibration looked like with a driveshaft that is out of balance and how to use hose clamps to counteract that out of balance.
I have a 2007 ford f150 just got new tires and ailment but whenever I go over 60 it shakes like crazy still and when I turn the wheel I can hear a clunking noise, please help.
Samuel, I will need to do a little sleuthing through Q & A in order to help you. A driveshaft that is out of balance is abnormal and not likely the problem but as a diagnostician nothing ever gets ruled out. Where do you feel the shake? In the steering wheel or more in the seat of your pants? Is this a 4 wheel drive or 2 wheel drive truck? are these tires of normal factory size or oversize tires? Are these tires aggressive off road tires or standard tires? Have you replaced the rims with something that is not factory size? A clunking noise when you turn the wheel could be something loose in the suspension or steering. Any looseness should have been caught by the pre-alignment inspection. You should have a front end expert inspect your steering and suspension with a fine tooth comb. Do you hear the clunk if you turn the wheel while parked? If so, crawl under the front of the truck while a friend turns the wheel back and forth. See if you can identify where the noise or looseness is coming from. If the clunk is only when driving and you have a 4 wheel drive the problem could be in one of the axle shafts. While the front end specialist is inspecting your front end have them look at the driveshaft. If there is a 2 piece driveshaft they should inspect the center bearing along with the u-joints. Here is another thought questions. Is the vibration greater when accelerating as compared to letting off on the gas. In other words is it gas pedal position sensitive? While the suspension is being inspected have the technician inspect your rims for dents and run out. Have them look for wheel weights that may have come off throwing the tire out of balance. Have them look at the driveshaft to see if they can tell if the balance weights have been knocked off somehow. Lets start with these questions and based on your answers I may be able to help.
I want to try and do this with my truck since I think the driveshaft is imbalanced, however, i don't see how this is doable or "safe" without having it on a lift. if it falls off the jack and jackstands, it'll run me over when im under it trying to mark the driveshaft.
I agree. Doing this on Jack Stands alone would be a little scary for me as well. You could remove the wheels but make sure to reinstall the lug nuts. Turn them backwards so the flat side is against the rotor or drum and torque them to 25 foot pounds. At least if it falls the truck won't drive away. I would also use backup jack stands.
To Tan TS. I see a message from you in my email but don't see it on the message board. No need to balance a FWD half shaft. If you feel a vibration while accelerating that smooths out when letting off on the gas pedal suspect a binding inner CV joint and or motor and transmission mount problems.
My mechanic friends would laugh at me if I had hose clamps on my driveshaft. I understand the theory but I prefer the guys at the driveshaft service just do it in their shop. Those guys are so old and experienced and they warranty everything.
Of course if you have a driveshaft service shop close by but they are not always that available. I normally do this if I suspect the vibration is from the driveshaft. If this solves it I then recommend that the driveshaft be removed and sent to a driveline shop that has the special tooling to balance the driveshaft on the machine.
does the method of holding chalk or a sharpie etc near the spinning shaft have to be done on a portion that is 100% true? i.e. if spinning the driveshaft via my foot on the tire in neutral i find a high spot of .004" then would this contact the marker? id imagine this would also be consistent with a heavy spot but not necessarily. perhaps a marker should be clamped to a scissor jack and this should be raised up to where it is almost touching that high spot? or, perhaps this should only be done on a perfectly true area of the shaft? im guessing that a heavy spot as shown in the video will naturally cause just enough flexation of the shaft or components to contact the marker
Typically the chalk is used about 6 - 8 inches from the rear u-joint and or the front u-joint to find the heavy spot. The high spot using a dial indicator may not be the heavy spot. The driveshaft becomes slightly distorted from the heavy spot the faster it spins. I wouldn't fasten the chalk to a jack because when it touches it is ever so slight and you need to feel it. It's really easy to touch too much and end up marking 2/3 of the way around on the shaft. It truly is the slightest of touch. You could use the jack to rest your hand or arm as you slowly bring the chalk closer. Chalk works better than a sharpie.
a scissor jack with a sharpie or chalk in this case could be positioned and raised in .001" increments till it is almost touching the shaft. as slow rotation occurs, there will be an area with a gap of say .005" and one where the tip touches and drags as it goes around. then it comes around and theres that gap again, spin it again now its dragging, you can measure runout this way. no dial indicator. a scissor jack, cclamp, and ruler, feeler gauge set. so youre saying this area thats draggin youd think would be heavy but its possible there is a heavy spot elsewhere 270 degrees from where you are at with making contact with a marker. so if you now spool it up to high speed, the high dragging spot may or may not be the heavy area, so i dont see any way you are going to probe only the low (gap areas) without touching the pesky false high spot. youd want to see if the amplitude of one of those low spots is acting eccentric and youre limited to only being able to come in contact with the certain spot of an egg shaped (exxagerated) shape. so the way i see it there is no possible way that your way will pinpoint a heavy (whipping) area of mass being a flung around eccentrically and putting your hose clamp with weight on the area you think is heavy which is not necessarily heavy is why you have to move the hose clamp around a dozen times which is exhausting. i just want to know the right spot to put a weight, and only vary that weight if necessary, take some off or add some on. (in grams).
You may very well be right. What I do know is that this works and has been working for the 40+ years I have been in the automotive field. If you saw the first place I placed the clamps I was really close to being in balance and I only moved them a few time to see if I could dial it in a little better and to demonstrate this technique. Always worth the extra time in my book. Also note my chalk mark was almost 180 degrees from the offsetting weight I used to knock the driveshaft out of balance just for this exercise. As to using chalk, scissor jack and a feeler gauge for me it would be 10 times faster (and more accurate) to just use a magnetic base and a dial indicator to find the out of round high spot. a round shaft that is out of round by .002" - .005" is far from egg shaped and without a gauge it would be undetectable. Just because the shaft is .002" out of round it doesn't mean that the mass of the tube isn't slightly thicker or heavier in a different spot on the shaft. Feel free to try your idea it may just work fine. I always return to the fact that this is a tried and true method that always works if you want to balance the shaft on the vehicle. Often if I find this solves the vibration problem I will remove the driveshaft and send it to a balance shop. I leave this option up to the customer. Good luck.
what was the runout prior to installing the ballast weight for test purposes? sounds like it was probably very true in that area. my method for measuring runout works 100%
I didn't measure it. BTW using a dial indicator also works 100% to measure run out and it's more accurate than a feeler gauge. It's not worth arguing who's method is best. You do your thing and I will do mine. I'm not knocking your process and yet it feels like I'm defending mine to you.
Fantastic video mate! I have a vibration at high speed around 80-90 kph and it’s throttle dependent. Very distinct when throttle on. It’s like a on-iff vibration, not a continuous one. I had my oversized tires balanced 3 times already. What are your thoughts mate. Any help is appreciated. Subbed by the way.
Any vibration that is throttle sensitive is directly related to a driveline problem. This won't be tires or suspension. Before trying to balance the driveshaft remove it and inspect the u-joints carefully because it sounds like one or both of them might have a slight amount of binding. If your driveshaft has a center bearing make sure it is in good condition. Just prior to you noticing the vibration did you have any service work that would have required the technician to remove the driveshaft? If you have a two piece driveshaft (one with a center bearing) and the driveshaft was separated in the middle of the driveshaft it's possible to put it back together in the wrong position. This will cause a phasing problem and induce vibrations. Additionally, you mentioned oversize tires and rims. Was the vehicle ride height raised to accommodate the larger tires? If so, you could be subject to excessive u-joint angle vibration. I started but never completed a video on how to measure u-joint angles. It is preferred that the u-joint not operate at more than 3 degrees and that the angle difference between the front and rear u-joint not be more than 1/2 of a degree. If you don't know how to do this, find a technician that does. If this is a truck that has been raised up to accommodate large tires you may need to adjust the differential pinion angle to correct problems with the u-joint angles. If the truck is raised up really high you may not be able to get the u-joints under 3 degrees and if everything else is checked, adjusted best possible you may not be able to get rid of this vibration because of excessive u-joint operational angles. Good luck mate.
DrivelineMaster Thank you for the reply, I did changed the center diff and detached the drive shaft. By the way, I only have 1 piece shaft. The vehicle is a Montero 4wd. It’s sitting on stock suspension at the moment. I did grease the U joints but it didn’t fix it so maybe I need to remove it and inspect yeh?
Don't forget about the front driveshaft. You may need to remove the driveshafts to check the operation of the u-joints. They should rotate smooth in both directions without any free play. Any sign that the movement is not smooth would point to this being your culprit. If you have a front driveshaft you may have a double cardon joint that will need careful inspection because they also have a centering ball that can go bad. Don't overlook your transmission and engine mounts or even the control arm bushings for your front and rear differential. Anything out of alignment or that can move under load can change the driveshaft operational angle which can cause vibration.
I just want to be clear because I can't stress this enough. You took the driveshaft off the vehicle and checked each u-joint by hand to make sure they moved freely with zero binding or stiff spots. This is important because the vibration you are describing is more likely a binding u-joint than it is an out of balance driveshaft. If they are all good now that I have expressed the importance of checking the u-joints while the driveshaft is off the vehicle and you have verified the integrity of the engine, trans and diff mounts then you can try to balance the driveshaft but I can't guaranty it will solve your problem. I basically leave the balancing of the driveshaft to the very last thing I try. I want to check everything else first. Then if everything else is confirmed to be good I proceed to balance the driveshaft. Good luck.
Bu teknik ile taşıtamiyacağın şeylerin balansını alabilirsin. Hayal gücünü kullan. Tekniği nerede kullanacağına sen karar ver. Teknik için teşekkürler.👍
Out of curiosity, why would you not remove the wheels and tires? Seems like you could be introducing a vibration from a slightly imbalanced wheel((possibly from all the random rocks left in the thread)I'm kidding of course).
I hate running wheels off the ground and ive been wrenching for a good while. Even on big blocks, it seems like my truck would shake itself off. Thinking about shortening a couple axles myself and wanted to see if there was a way to permanently balance them myself. If i used the intended weights and tape carefully evenly measured, think there would be much difference after welding and removing tape?
This technique must be done using EXTREME CAUTION!. Even running on a hoist with quality jack stands is dangerous and scary however there is no other way to do this short of taking the driveshaft to a specialty shop for balancing. Question 2, that balance might change after welding depending on how much welding material you use. You won't need much to hold the weight in place. If you keep the welding material to a minimum you should be OK.
@@DrivelineMaster i gotta be honest, i do enough stupid things already and if can get it balanced for a hundred bucks, ill happily go that route. Had been fighting with the truck for a few hours and was a bit tired by the time i saw video. Back to full cognition and its all nope! Lol Had to cut 1 3/4" off the inside of a split yoke this morning to get front drive shaft comfy after an axle upgrade. Took just under 1/3rd , almost 1/4 of the total splined portion off. Finished it by hand files.
It depends on your shop and the skill level of the technicians. You can direct them to my video if they don't know how to do this. Many don't know how to gauge the vibration that is why I came up with the simple to make tool.
Low budget minimal brain power. I do have an advanced balance tool that uses a vibration sensor, speed sensor and computing power (NVH Tool) to minimize the number of trial and error attempts but the time to set up almost offsets the extra tries. Additionally the cost is into a few thousand US dollars.
Absolutely but it was still obvious that I was able to smooth out the water vibrations from moving the clamps around demonstrating that I was removing driveshaft vibration.
When balancing a two piece shaft that has a rubber bush around the central bearing, would you look to balance each half? Any tips for this situation, like starting with the clamps away from the centre to minimise their effect, and iteratively moving them towards the centre?
I would start at the differential yoke end first and see if the problem goes away before attempting to balance the end closest to the center bearing. If the balance job becomes complicated it should go to a specialty shop. I normally do this to verify that I can solve the vibration problem by balancing the driveshaft. If this solves the problem I then suggest to the customer that the driveshaft be removed and sent to a professional shop to be balanced.
@@KeeleDesign I even ask mechanics where i am who balances drive shafts and no one knows.. Some of my friends don't even know about it and these are guys who are seasoned in pulling down their vehicles.
Yes it works well ive done that back in the 90s. Brand new motor home that vibrated so bad it would open cabinet doors inside. I put a couple hose clamps on the drive shaft and kept adjusting until it was nearly gone. They had just been in a dealership in Florida where they had a new rear end installed under warranty. I fixed it with a couple of hose clamps and amazed everyone.
you guys have taught me a shitload about diff rebuilding and drive lines..thanks so much for the excellent videos...
Thank you for the effort put into this video. I took my 4x4 with a split prop shaft to a drive shaft centre to balance it and was told they don't have the equipment to do this. Lol. Your video may be the basis for a good business in an uneducated market where the experts have no skills. I remanufactured my suspension and drive train bushings and centre mount flex bearing with polyurethane adhesive and this was the final step. Well done sir.
I'm glad this helped. It's amazing that a shop would call themselves a Driveshaft centre and not be able to balance a simple two piece driveshaft.
This technique works very well , I've did this years ago but I would drive a little , stop and adjust the clamp alittle at a time . 👍
This dude can afford NAPA hose clamps!
Great video.
Lol bahhhhhhh yehhhhhhhh ya nha
@Kenton Pezzuto You're right, We don't give a shit... Came here for the video not your dumb ass comment lol
One of the best DIY videos I have seen. Well done, wish you did all the automotive DIY videos:)
Thank you. This procedure worked fantastic on a Yanmar sub-compact tractor mid PTO extension drive shaft that connects to a front mount PTO pillow block for the snowblower.... smooth as silk now.
I'm glad you were able to apply this technique and it has all worked out.
Wow! Awesome video, so helpful when you own an old Mercedes. Now if I can just figure out how to build my own portable 4 post lift... I will be doing this soon. Thank you so much for making this video, it is truly appreciated.
Several good jack stands and a creeper might do. Just be careful.
Brilliant way to balance a prop, many thanks from UK
Thanks buddy after doing the same set up on my 3.08 rear end drive shaft . no more vibrations .im really so happy
So glad it worked out for you. Before making this video I searched CZcams for video's on this and found nothing of quality. I'm glad I could help.
Man that’s awesome, I never would’ve thought of doing that, I’m chasing down a crazy vibration in my driveshaft I have replaced the ujoints on my 2 wd expedition but still getting random shaking this may just do the trick, thank you so much I’ll update you when I get it done and see if I’m able to improve it. Also a little scared to do this with just jackstands under the vehicle, if somehow it was to come down I’ll have a giant hole in my wall LOL. Thanks again
Yes, this is dangerous. I suggest a pair of jack stands under the axle and a second pair of jack stands under the frame about 1/4" - 1/2" below the frame so the weight is on the axle. If it slips off the second set of jack stands should catch it. This works but please be careful. Double check the slip joint that goes into the end of the transmission if this is a one piece driveshaft. look for wear and put some lithium based grease on the splines. If the vehicle is raised up with larger tires you may need to check the operational angles on both U-Joints. If this is a two piece driveshaft and the driveshaft has been separated in the middle it is possible to put these back together on the wrong splines affecting the phasing of the driveshaft. Normally the driveshaft Yokes should all be in alignment with each other.
I'm going to try this. I have crazy vibration from my drive shaft. So happy I found this video
Look to see if you have a 2 part driveshaft. If it was ever taken apart in the middle it could have been put back together wrong. If so, this cause what is called a phasing problem and this can cause a lot of driveshaft vibration.
Would you use the same approach for a phasing problem on a two part drive shaft that was put back wrongly? Thanks
@@tonymtz1 you can't correct phasing with weights. you must separate and realign the driveshaft halves so the u-joint crosses are lined up with each other.
FYI, every old BMW I've bought has had the driveshaft incorrectly phased. sad....
video was very useful, i had to replace the center bearing on a two piece drive shaft on a Ford Territory. It went fine until i realized i didn't mark the splines in the center as to where they went back together. the water trick didn't work as well since it was supported and didn't transmit the same shock waves except i could feel it from the driver seat. so i jacked up the rear wheels, marked the spline i was on and drove it similar to your setup with the wheels in the air. after moving the splines around i found the one sweet spot where it didn't vibrate anymore. thanks for the ideas on what to do.
That's fantastic. A little trial and error. Normally if the yokes line up the driveshaft U-Joints will be in phase but not always.
Excellent information, very thorough !!
Loved-it! Thanks Sir, appreciate this reasoning and method by which to eliminate vibration in drive shaft!❤ Thank you!
Thank you! I've replaced both my cv axles balanced my wheels and all my suspension but was getting vibration. I used this technique on my cv and it greatly improved the vibration! thank you!
It's highly unusual that a front CV axle would need balancing but if it worked great. Often CV axles will vibrate on acceleration and smooth out when you let off on the gas. This is often caused by a binding inner CV joint. Don't let the fact that you just replaced the axle fool you. I have seen defective replacement axles. Another thing to consider that effects front CV axle alignment is defective and sagging motor and transaxle mounts and misaligned subframes.
Hey there. Where have you found the issue? Was there also a radial play on the axle shaft before? Did you put counter weights according to that play? Or was it all trial and error? Thanks.
Excellent video! Thank you for the advice!
Brilliant! I'm a qualified aviation tech and have used a host of expensive balancing equipment in my time on fixed and rotary wing, but the water-in-a-cup technique is pure genius.
I just discovered my Landcruiser front shaft is out of phase so I have a 50:50 chance of correctly realigning it on the splines of the sliding yolk. A variation of your technique should help get the phasing correct, in my home garage, in line with the original factory shaft balancing. Then I can fine tune even further with hose clamps (though I probably wont bother with that last step).
Glad I could help. Yes, I thought the water in a cup idea was pretty ingenious if I don't say so myself.
Do you realise some landcruiser 80s had the front shaft 90 deg out of phase factory new ?
@@mohawkc77 thanks. Yes, further investigation revealed that my shafts were in fact factory-correct (i.e. out-of-phase)
Awesome video thanks, this will certainly help me with my 1990 Nissan D-21. After installing that Center support bearing something went out of whack, and now I'm feeling some vibration at 40 mph. I was trying to make out why you needed magnets for your tester, and why you were marking the driveshaft with the "0" and the "1's" now it all makes sense to me. Thanks for that great tutorial.
When you changed your center bearing you had to separate the two piece driveshaft. Did you mark the two halves and return them to the same location? If not your driveshaft is most likely out of phase. The U-joint yokes need to be in alignment with each other. You might want to check this before balancing.
DrivelineMaster - Yep!!! I bet that's my problem. Thanks,...I'll look into that.
DrivelineMaster - You were right.....THANKS!!!!, It seems that the two (2) Driveshafts were out of phase. Not knowing first hand the original position of the two (2) shafts, I repositioned (or turned) the 2nd shaft 180° from the it's present position. I test drove it and the vibrations have been reduced tremendously. Thanks again.
from experience w/a van that had a long and short drive shaft setup chances are they are out of phase w/each other. if they are not keyed you can move the rear long shaft "u" joint to line up in same
plane as the "u" joint from the transmission
@@DrivelineMaster I have a 1990 Nissan Skyline n they are somewhat similar in setup to the d-21 pickup.. iT was this section that really made me go back n check my drive shaft...
I didn't do any markings on mine but I know better next time. I changed my center support bearing but when I was setting everything up, the piece that I put on after the center support that the other piece of drive shaft is bolted to was causing the u-joints to be out of line... so I took down everything, aligned that piece so that when the other half is up, everyone would be aligned.
At the point of typing this, I haven't road tested it as yet but while on the jack stands and shifting through the gears, OMG, a world of difference so far !!!
Awsome video. Thanks again. I found a vibration app on my phone. Works great to find the frequency and to see if it's is getting worse or better. It's free! better that buying a $1000 fluke to read vibration. 👍🏼
What was the frequency you found?
Excellent video, I had read a similar procedure in a MercedesBenz manual that was way more guess and check, but your take is way easier and more repeatable.
In much earlier years I could rest my hand on the vehicle to interpret the level of vibration however I like the visuals and sensitivity of the water glass.
Thanks, your water glass setup should work well as a more sensitive way to test wheel balance on my surface grinder.
this was really cool. thanks for the work you put in to show us. I'm having (what I think is) a driveshaft issue in my 2012 f150 (lariat s-crew) and I'll be trying this method to eliminate the 60mph and 75-80 mph vibration. cheers!
What type wheels do you have? Worked for years at Ford dealership and we had vibration issues with the steel wheels. If possible, swap a set of alloys from a different truck and see if vibration goes away.
Awesome video, thank you!
This will save me 600 bucks! Thank you!
I used to do this in the 80's when building cars for different race events and having to change rear axles so would cut and shut propshafts ( you call them drive lines in the U.S I believe) After doing as best a balance off the car, then on the car using the exact same method. The jubilee clips well tightened never came off when left tight in place.
It works just as long as your careful. I looked for a good video on how to do this. None were available so I had to create my own.
Well done on a great video! Earned a sub!
i had some thieves cut half way through my driveshaft while trying to steal the catalytic converter....they gave up and left a lot of damage. I welded the shaft, but as you would guess vibration galore. It's an AWD CRV so this technique will be a challenge. Great video!
It will be near impossible to make sure the driveshaft turns true after welding it let alone balancing it. Unfortunately I would recommend replacing it or taking it to a driveshaft specialty shop to have it fixed.
@@DrivelineMaster Thanks....$135 free shipping on ebay is not so bad. It's cheaper than knocking out a transfer case or differential bearing with all that vibration.
good choice
Also cheaper than a catalytic converter.
Worked for me, THANKS!
Glad to here.
good way of doing it. Im going to go out and try it today
hi Andrew - did this method end up helping you?
Great work brother! I have a F250 I have a vibration at 50mph -70mph. Ford dealership could not find the issue. I'm gonna break out the hose clams and see if i can fix it myself.
Great great video thanx ...very good tip
Wow, this is an amazing thanks for sharing .😊😊😊
Thankyou for this information .
this is a very good video. Thank you
Good job, thanks! :)
GREAT vid.
Absolute Awesome demo. Thank you. Would this work on a tailshaft of a transmission or transfer case to determine root cause vibration?
Yes this will work on any driveshaft just not necessary for front wheel drive half shafts. Just be careful around spinning objects. If this is a truck with big tires you may want to consider removing the wheels. Just make sure to put a few lug nuts back on to hold the drums or rotors in place.
@@DrivelineMaster
Should the opposite side of the same tube also be balanced? Ie: the transmission side.
And, possible have a front and rear balance weight.
If a vehicle has a long drive shaft with a carrier bearing should the same be done to both tubes?
When a driveshaft is professionally balance there is often balance weights at both ends of the driveshaft. More often than not the front end of the driveshaft is inaccessible when it is in the vehicle for this balancing technique. Often if you have a small imbalance in the driveshaft it can be corrected by just doing the rear. Technically you are correct.
@@DrivelineMaster
I asked because I didn't know. Thanks for the reply.
👍😉
How do you find the right position on the driveshaft in the lenght ?
very good video; i would definitely do it with the wheels off though (with lug nuts holding the drums/rotors on) in order to not have wheel imbalance affecting your readings. is there an approximate weight equivalent to the hose clamps for a washer so that we can attach a permanent weight to the driveshaft? also, how do you figure out which end of the driveshaft to put the balance on?
i guess he was assuming this is a procedure for people that don't want to replace their rims and tires, maybe proper way would actually be with brand new tires and balanced wheels
I think I point is to do it with the wheels on
I have just replaced a right drive shaft(front wheel drive) with a reconditioned one. Just wondering, will there be any long term impact if I feel slight vibration at my foot rest while driving? Do I need to do a drive shaft balancing?
Smart. It's true we learn something new everyday. Cool.
2003 RAM 3500 2WD Dually out of balance wore out new carrier bearing in 15,000 miles > balance drive shaft! Thanks for easy Fix. #HHNET
Glad it helped.
hmm... seems hairy lol. I'm just wondering if you ever spin your tires and experience wheel hop, or any other jolting if the hose clamps can potentially slip and move throwing it all off? Or do they seem pretty reliable over all
Tires need to be in balance before performing this job. If the tires are removed before doing this then the brake drums or rotors should also be removed before hand. It's not likely that the hose clamps will come off. It's not very common for a driveshaft to be out of balance but just in case it can be re-balanced using this technique. After balancing the driveshaft using this technique and confirming that this solved the vehicle vibration problem the driveshaft can be removed and sent to a professional balance machine shop to have the counter balance welded to the driveshaft with full confidence that the vibration problem is solved.
👍 great video
keep up the good job
Brilliant ...ty so much...!!!
Hello, Driveshaft Balancing. Thank you for a great video. I have a 2008 Jeep Patriot with a manual transmission and a front-wheel drive. I replaced the front CV Axles, intermediate shaft (passenger side), front struts/shocks (now the Patriot is a little higher because the new struts/shocks assemblies are higher than its old strut/shock assemblies), motor and transmission mounts. Here is the problem: I can visually see how the passenger's-side CV axle is rotating out of center (and so is the driver's-side CV axle, but not as much as the passenger's-side) AND the vehicle has a sideways vibration between EXACTLY 20 miles per hour and 30 miles per hour. Below 20 m.p.h. and above 30 m.p.h, the Jeep runs and drives flawlessly.
Question 1: Will balancing both CV axles eliminate the vibration?
Question 2: How do I know that a motor and/or transmission mount may be the culprit?
You typically would not balance FWD half shafts. Is the vibration load sensitive. In other words does it come and go or get better or worse if you are accelerating or letting off on the gas? If so, the problem is driveline related. If not, it may not be driveline related. Where do you feel the vibration? In the seat of your pants or more in the steering wheel. Steering wheel vibration is more likely tires, wheels, alignment, steering or suspension related as compared to driveline related. I wouldn't be trying to balance the halfshafts and instead I would be looking for another cause for your vibration.
@@tb-skyline-auto9836 Thank you for your previous message. You are correct. The vibration is felt in the seat of my pants. It is load-sensitive. I.am.not.an expert. If the vibration is driveline-related, what should I be inspecting then? Pardon my ignorance, what is the driveline?
Old-school badass tech right there bois
Very old school and yet it still works good. In the olden days I could just feel the vibration but you can't show that in a video so I had to come up with a way to visualize the vibration with a cup of water.
are the magnets simply to attach the bar to the housing and the cup to the bar? or do they serve an additional purpose?
You are correct. The only purpose is to hold the bracket to the housing and to hold the cup to the bracket.
Thank for revealing this secret drive line master.i have same problem with my montero sport.one thing I noticed was that, the rubber holding center support bearing worn out ,can this cause vibration especially on high speed ?
Absolutely. If you know the center support bearing and or rubber around the bearing is worn out replace it first. While the driveshaft is out for the bearing perform a close inspection of the U-Joints to make sure there is no looseness and that they move smooth through their entire range of motion. Additionally, inspect the driveshaft to make sure the balance weights have not fallen off and there are no dents in the shaft.
How many highway miles did you put on the truck on the lift running like that? Can't be good for the drivetrain to run with no resistance that long
First of all this is a car not a truck. Since the suspension was compressed there is no harm or abnormal wear and tear on the drivetrain or the engine. In fact since the load is less the wear and tear is reduced compared to fully loaded. Maybe 5 miles at the most.
Brilliant!
Does the counter balance stay on the whole time with tape? I assume so since it's part of the balanced driveshaft when complete. Why is the counter balance put on in the first place? To find the high spot assume?
Please let me explain. This driveshaft was already in balance when I started this video. I needed to knock it out of balance for demonstration purpose so I placed a weight under the tape to do this. This would not normally be part of balancing a driveshaft. Pretend it's not even there.
Superr
fanstatic video. I gotta get me a pedal depresser and make a bracket to hold a cup of water.
Great technique, but how do you calculate the counter weight(s)?
This is a low tech method with no counterweight calculations. We just use the heads of the hose clamps and the rotational position of each hose clamp helps to distribute the counter weight. The head of the hose clamp is the counterweight.
Works ok for basic prehistoric American cars with one piece prop shaft.
Do you leave the heavyweight with the electrical tape on there, seems like it wouldn’t be long before that would start to unravel in the heat? I thought at some point after you got the basic heavy points that you would take that tape and weight off and just go with the hose clamps?
You are not the only one. The weight under the tape is not normal. The driveshaft on this vehicle was not out of balance. For the purpose of demonstration I needed to do something to make this driveshaft out of balance. So, the weight under the tape was used to knock this driveshaft out of balance so I could demonstrate the procedure.
DrivelineMaster , Thanks for the update, I thought about it later and realized you had probably just done that to make the driveshaft out of balance for the demonstration, which is exactly what you did so thanks for clarifying.
Thank you DriveLineMaster.
What might be the actual frequency in hertz (cycles per second) of the vibration here? Or, the hertz of a typical drive shaft imbalance at 60 mph (100 km/h)?
I know there are people out there that know this but I'm sorry this is something I don't know.
For finding the high spot, it appears the vehicle is held up by the body, leaving the rear drive hanging on the suspension.
Is it necessary to do it this way just for finding the high spot..??
Also, does it matter where on the driveshaft(front to rear) that the counterweight is placed..??
It's not necessary to hand the suspension to find the high spot. I only did it this way because I had a lift and I could raise the car all the way up making it simpler. Most driveshafts will have counter weights at the front and rear but often the front does not have enough access room to get into it so normally only the rear is done. The rear is also where most of the vibration will take place. Normally you can perform this process on the rear and solve the balance problem and the front does not need to be done. Once I discover that my balance job has solved my problem I will often remove the driveshaft and send it out for profession balancing but it's not really necessary.
With the tires on how do you know if the vibration is from the driveshaft and not from an out of balance wheel. Also, the axle should be down on the jack stands from the get go to get an accurate reading as the stands will remove a lot of the movement from the imbalance.
Ideally the tires should be removed however when visual vibration is improved by changing the location of the hose clamps this is verification that the hose clamp location is influencing the vibration and improving the driveshaft balance. Driveshafts are not a common cause for vibrations and normally the first steps in isolating a vibration is to have the tires balanced. Since I knew the tires were in balance I decided it was not necessary to remove them. I start out with the wheels and suspension suspended for ease of video visuals however if you watch closely you will see when I perform the final vibration analysis the suspension is compressed with the axle resting on jack stands. This is important because it ensures the driveshaft and u-joint angles are at proper operational angles.
That's why he is using the cup method seriously dude
@@DrivelineMaster The very bet way to balance tires are on the car. Not taking them off to balance. Then go for drive shaft balance but good video thanks
@@Americanrebuild hes not trying to balance the tires hes balancing the D/S. your comment makes no sense either because there are wheel balancer machines or tools and you specifically need the tires off to balance unless you have a third world way of doing things.
jubjub247 there is an actual “on car tire balancer”. Never used or seen one in person but, google it 👍
On a 4wd do I need to support the front and the rear to get it into drive angle? Is it possible to damage something when not in drive angle? I have a lift..... thanks for showing this method
You can drive your 4WD with the suspension hanging without damaging anything however additional vibration can be induced from the excessive driveline angle. If you are balancing the rear driveshaft and your vehicle is able to disengage the front driveshaft so it doesn't spin you can let it hang. If you are balancing the front or it is spinning while balancing the rear then you need to compress the suspension.
@@DrivelineMaster I have another question. If I change the CV joints with the ones in this link www.ebay.de/i/202952788926?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=707-134425-41852-0&mkcid=2&itemid=202952788926&targetid=899896891158&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=9041951&poi=&campaignid=10199424670&mkgroupid=101937415197&rlsatarget=aud-558316661744:pla-899896891158&abcId=1145992&merchantid=110064182&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjer4BRCZARIsABK4QeUirfkO4vR99wEXA2zh848s3Yr0c0WHKRfaya8D3OaQ8p_oMXOiCY8aAoMEEALw_wcB
Do I need to balance the driveshaft?
Awsome
I love the new BLOCK CHANNEL FEATURE IN FEED
Might be a dumb question, but why not just put the hose clamps on where the old weight used to be on the shaft since that’s where the techs found the opposite of the heavy spot to be?
No question is dumb. Yes, you could do that if you can tell where the old weights come off from. Finding the heavy spot with chalk can be accurate to locating the heavy spot.
How do you figure out which end of the driveshaft to put the balance on?
Although most driveshafts have balance weights at both ends in most cases it's near impossible to gain access to the front of the driveshaft so I have always started with the rear of the driveshaft.
Thanks for replying. One additional question: What would be the process of diagnosis elimination on a vibrating steering wheel with 20X8.5s on an 11 Altima? (What is checked first, second etc. before going to the D shaft if needed). Thanks again.
Driveshaft vibrations are normally felt through the seat of your pants and not so much in the steering wheel. Steering wheel vibrations are often caused by tires and wheels being out of round and out of balance. Steering wheel vibrations can also be caused by looseness in the steering or suspension system. Have your steering and suspension inspected and have your tires and wheels inspected and balanced. If the vibration only happens when braking then the problem is most likely brake rotors that are not parallel or there is too much thickness variation. Replacing and or machining the rotors normally take care of this. Brake drums can sometimes cause this but it's rare. With big tires and rims I suspect this is your problem. The bigger the tires the harder they are to balance. If you have a small sidewall on the tire in order to make the large rims fit this makes the road surface more noticeable and the road imperfections can be felt more by the vehicle suspension making it difficult to absorb vibrations preventing them form being felt by the passengers.
Thank you for getting back. Can prying the tires while mounting with undue force be cause of wheels to go slightly off round, therefore, part of a wheel-vibrating issue.
@@Montery12 Typically wheels are not bent on the mounting machine however they are not perfect from the factory and they can be damaged from pot holes and curbs. They can be excessively out of round right out of the box. This in not common but it can't be ruled out. A good tire shop should be able to diagnose any tire, wheel, steering or suspension vibration problem. Driveshaft vibrations are more rare.
Thank you again for your information, it's going to help to make a good decision. I hope I can get my Altima's ride very steady as before.
@@Montery12 it's the 20s you just had to put on... Altima has cv axles no driveshaft
Great video. Can you explain to me a few things. First, I own a 4x4 that has driveshaft with 2 crosses, so where do i start marking with the chalk?
The two cross u-joint is called a Constant Velocity U-joint. Normally 4" to 5" from the joint. Make sure there is not already a balance weight there. Then spin up the driveshaft and hold the chalk close so it barely touches to locate the heavy spot.
So if I got this right, 5-6" from the u joints. In wich direction, ex. towards differential or opposite? What if there is a balance weight?
@@theone0168 The U-joints are on the end so 5-6" towards the center of the driveshaft. This is normally where the factory balance weight goes so this doesn't have to be exact. If the balance weight is in the way just move your clamps to accommodate the factory balance weight.
@@DrivelineMaster Thank you.
My prop shaft bearing kept failing and i did not know why. Replaced the transmission and rear axle because i thought it was a bearing there, not realizing the new prop shaft bearing had failed prematurely. I figured it out once i replaced the bearing support rubber to a stiffer one (incorrectly manufactured). Then the vibrations were really strong in the car at around 40 mph. It also made a low frequency sound as if the subwoofer was playing at 30 hz or something. First then i realized what was the root of the problem. It should have been apparent when looking at the prop shaft, that the balance weights were damaged from rust. While i thought then this was no biggie, now i realize the bad balance is putting a huge load on the bearing, like a hammer smashing it 1000 times per minute, and eventually destroys it. Now i've followed this video, but i did not use a glass of water, i used my fingertips and felt the bearing support crossmember as the car was on cruise control at around 40 mph, finding a spot where i felt the least vibration.
I hope this helped. I too used to just feel the vibration but it's difficult to demonstrate that in a video. The water glass is much easier to show the vibration.
Great video
Thank you. About a year ago I looked and looked all over youtube and Vimeo for a quality video showing the process for balancing RWD driveshafts while still on the car. Well at that time there were none. Well that was not 100% true, I found a few really lousy videos that were not worth watching. When I got the water glass idea for viewing vibration I set forth on my quest. The result is this high quality video that I'm proud of.
Yeah the best videos is always the ones that everyone can understand, even though most dont have common sense, but atleast with this I feel comfortable doing my own since its pretty straight forward. Keep up the good work though
Shouldn’t this be done with wheels off and rotors or drums secure, to prevent false readings from tires?
Yes. if you want to take the extra steps. If you really truly want to only balance the driveshaft the brakes should be removed including the drums or rotors. If you think about it though when you drive down the road your tires will be on and if you start with balanced tires this works just fine with the tires on. I have a really expensive balancing tool and with their instructions they don't mention taking the tires off so I just left mine on.
Could this method be utilized for a AWD setup ? Thanks in advance!
If there is a driveshaft that enters a differential than this method can be used. If you have a truck with large tires I would recommend removing the tires. Make sure to put the lug nuts or bolts back into the hub without the tires mounted to secure the drums or rotors.
Shared great video, my car vibrates when I drive at speed 25 after I replaced a transmission I will update the end result.
Part 2 update, Mecanic replaced driveshaft center support and the vibration is gone, transmission shifting smoothly I pay $130 for driveshaft center support replacement and $430 for transmission replacement and I pay $350 for the transmission from a junkyard with 6 months warranty I’m happy with the end results I think I pay a fair price for part and labor, this is a 95 Lexus sc 300.
Does your car have a 2 piece driveshaft? Did you separate it in the middle? If so, you may have put it back together out of phase inducing a vibration.
Part 2 update,Mecanic just replaced driveshaft center support today and the vibration is gone!!! the transmission shift smoothly I hope this info can help others.
@@cuarajhyrojayju4397 I'd still question if it was out of phase, and simply re-assembled correctly after the carrier bearing was replaced.
I’m sorry I don’t understand your question, the Mecanic show me the problem under the car he replaced and now my car is driving perfectly my car is very old
OH MY GAWD!!!!
That's some rabbit out of a hat magic trick right there at 2.11 when the hose clamps are TRIDON's, then at 2.43 they turn into NAPA hose clamps.
Yea, I decided to video how to size the hose clamps after I had already cut the Napa clamps and all I had in the shop was Tridon's. I then edited and inserted the cutting at the appropriate time in the video. Good catch. In some of my videos i will show how to tighten something but I forgot to video loosening so I just take the frames from tightening and reverse them and it make them look like I'm loosening. The wonders of video editing software. I love it!
Damn, you don't miss a thing!
did you notice at 13:35 it was a 2021 ford raptor instead of the original car? no more vibration :)
We get shafts ppl tried stuff like this to on a weekly basis. I just play "If that ain't country" and fix it.
how about two lasers mounted on the diff pointing on the ground and on the wall..... measuring span distance and readjusting accordingly on different points on the shaft .....
The idea is to show an economical method. I have a high priced NVH tool but it's expensive.
Can you please explain why black tapped an extra weight?
The extra weight and tape to hold it in place was used specifically just for this video. I purposely wanted the driveshaft to be out of balance to show my users what the vibration looked like with a driveshaft that is out of balance and how to use hose clamps to counteract that out of balance.
I have a 2007 ford f150 just got new tires and ailment but whenever I go over 60 it shakes like crazy still and when I turn the wheel I can hear a clunking noise, please help.
Samuel, I will need to do a little sleuthing through Q & A in order to help you. A driveshaft that is out of balance is abnormal and not likely the problem but as a diagnostician nothing ever gets ruled out. Where do you feel the shake? In the steering wheel or more in the seat of your pants? Is this a 4 wheel drive or 2 wheel drive truck? are these tires of normal factory size or oversize tires? Are these tires aggressive off road tires or standard tires? Have you replaced the rims with something that is not factory size? A clunking noise when you turn the wheel could be something loose in the suspension or steering. Any looseness should have been caught by the pre-alignment inspection. You should have a front end expert inspect your steering and suspension with a fine tooth comb. Do you hear the clunk if you turn the wheel while parked? If so, crawl under the front of the truck while a friend turns the wheel back and forth. See if you can identify where the noise or looseness is coming from. If the clunk is only when driving and you have a 4 wheel drive the problem could be in one of the axle shafts. While the front end specialist is inspecting your front end have them look at the driveshaft. If there is a 2 piece driveshaft they should inspect the center bearing along with the u-joints. Here is another thought questions. Is the vibration greater when accelerating as compared to letting off on the gas. In other words is it gas pedal position sensitive? While the suspension is being inspected have the technician inspect your rims for dents and run out. Have them look for wheel weights that may have come off throwing the tire out of balance. Have them look at the driveshaft to see if they can tell if the balance weights have been knocked off somehow. Lets start with these questions and based on your answers I may be able to help.
cool.....thanks
Sir is it adviceable to remove factory balance weight?
No, I do not remove them. They can often weigh much more than 2 hose clamps.
I want to try and do this with my truck since I think the driveshaft is imbalanced, however, i don't see how this is doable or "safe" without having it on a lift. if it falls off the jack and jackstands, it'll run me over when im under it trying to mark the driveshaft.
I agree. Doing this on Jack Stands alone would be a little scary for me as well. You could remove the wheels but make sure to reinstall the lug nuts. Turn them backwards so the flat side is against the rotor or drum and torque them to 25 foot pounds. At least if it falls the truck won't drive away. I would also use backup jack stands.
To Tan TS. I see a message from you in my email but don't see it on the message board. No need to balance a FWD half shaft. If you feel a vibration while accelerating that smooths out when letting off on the gas pedal suspect a binding inner CV joint and or motor and transmission mount problems.
False some dodges have constant engaged front driveshaft and need to be balanced regardless if 4wd is used all the time or not.
The original question asked about a FWD half shaft or axle shaft not a 4WD front driveshaft.
My mechanic friends would laugh at me if I had hose clamps on my driveshaft. I understand the theory but I prefer the guys at the driveshaft service just do it in their shop. Those guys are so old and experienced and they warranty everything.
Of course if you have a driveshaft service shop close by but they are not always that available. I normally do this if I suspect the vibration is from the driveshaft. If this solves it I then recommend that the driveshaft be removed and sent to a driveline shop that has the special tooling to balance the driveshaft on the machine.
does the method of holding chalk or a sharpie etc near the spinning shaft have to be done on a portion that is 100% true?
i.e. if spinning the driveshaft via my foot on the tire in neutral i find a high spot of .004" then would this contact the marker? id imagine this would also be consistent with a heavy spot but not necessarily.
perhaps a marker should be clamped to a scissor jack and this should be raised up to where it is almost touching that high spot? or, perhaps this should only be done on a perfectly true area of the shaft?
im guessing that a heavy spot as shown in the video will naturally cause just enough flexation of the shaft or components to contact the marker
Typically the chalk is used about 6 - 8 inches from the rear u-joint and or the front u-joint to find the heavy spot. The high spot using a dial indicator may not be the heavy spot. The driveshaft becomes slightly distorted from the heavy spot the faster it spins. I wouldn't fasten the chalk to a jack because when it touches it is ever so slight and you need to feel it. It's really easy to touch too much and end up marking 2/3 of the way around on the shaft. It truly is the slightest of touch. You could use the jack to rest your hand or arm as you slowly bring the chalk closer. Chalk works better than a sharpie.
a scissor jack with a sharpie or chalk in this case could be positioned and raised in .001" increments till it is almost touching the shaft. as slow rotation occurs, there will be an area with a gap of say .005" and one where the tip touches and drags as it goes around. then it comes around and theres that gap again, spin it again now its dragging, you can measure runout this way. no dial indicator. a scissor jack, cclamp, and ruler, feeler gauge set. so youre saying this area thats draggin youd think would be heavy but its possible there is a heavy spot elsewhere 270 degrees from where you are at with making contact with a marker. so if you now spool it up to high speed, the high dragging spot may or may not be the heavy area, so i dont see any way you are going to probe only the low (gap areas) without touching the pesky false high spot. youd want to see if the amplitude of one of those low spots is acting eccentric and youre limited to only being able to come in contact with the certain spot of an egg shaped (exxagerated) shape. so the way i see it there is no possible way that your way will pinpoint a heavy (whipping) area of mass being a flung around eccentrically and putting your hose clamp with weight on the area you think is heavy which is not necessarily heavy is why you have to move the hose clamp around a dozen times which is exhausting. i just want to know the right spot to put a weight, and only vary that weight if necessary, take some off or add some on. (in grams).
You may very well be right. What I do know is that this works and has been working for the 40+ years I have been in the automotive field. If you saw the first place I placed the clamps I was really close to being in balance and I only moved them a few time to see if I could dial it in a little better and to demonstrate this technique. Always worth the extra time in my book. Also note my chalk mark was almost 180 degrees from the offsetting weight I used to knock the driveshaft out of balance just for this exercise. As to using chalk, scissor jack and a feeler gauge for me it would be 10 times faster (and more accurate) to just use a magnetic base and a dial indicator to find the out of round high spot. a round shaft that is out of round by .002" - .005" is far from egg shaped and without a gauge it would be undetectable. Just because the shaft is .002" out of round it doesn't mean that the mass of the tube isn't slightly thicker or heavier in a different spot on the shaft. Feel free to try your idea it may just work fine. I always return to the fact that this is a tried and true method that always works if you want to balance the shaft on the vehicle. Often if I find this solves the vibration problem I will remove the driveshaft and send it to a balance shop. I leave this option up to the customer. Good luck.
what was the runout prior to installing the ballast weight for test purposes? sounds like it was probably very true in that area.
my method for measuring runout works 100%
I didn't measure it. BTW using a dial indicator also works 100% to measure run out and it's more accurate than a feeler gauge. It's not worth arguing who's method is best. You do your thing and I will do mine. I'm not knocking your process and yet it feels like I'm defending mine to you.
Thanks for it, show....
All the lifelong mechanics in my area don't have a clue how to do this. Thank you
Fantastic video mate! I have a vibration at high speed around 80-90 kph and it’s throttle dependent. Very distinct when throttle on. It’s like a on-iff vibration, not a continuous one. I had my oversized tires balanced 3 times already. What are your thoughts mate. Any help is appreciated. Subbed by the way.
Any vibration that is throttle sensitive is directly related to a driveline problem. This won't be tires or suspension. Before trying to balance the driveshaft remove it and inspect the u-joints carefully because it sounds like one or both of them might have a slight amount of binding. If your driveshaft has a center bearing make sure it is in good condition. Just prior to you noticing the vibration did you have any service work that would have required the technician to remove the driveshaft? If you have a two piece driveshaft (one with a center bearing) and the driveshaft was separated in the middle of the driveshaft it's possible to put it back together in the wrong position. This will cause a phasing problem and induce vibrations. Additionally, you mentioned oversize tires and rims. Was the vehicle ride height raised to accommodate the larger tires? If so, you could be subject to excessive u-joint angle vibration. I started but never completed a video on how to measure u-joint angles. It is preferred that the u-joint not operate at more than 3 degrees and that the angle difference between the front and rear u-joint not be more than 1/2 of a degree. If you don't know how to do this, find a technician that does. If this is a truck that has been raised up to accommodate large tires you may need to adjust the differential pinion angle to correct problems with the u-joint angles. If the truck is raised up really high you may not be able to get the u-joints under 3 degrees and if everything else is checked, adjusted best possible you may not be able to get rid of this vibration because of excessive u-joint operational angles. Good luck mate.
DrivelineMaster Thank you for the reply, I did changed the center diff and detached the drive shaft. By the way, I only have 1 piece shaft. The vehicle is a Montero 4wd. It’s sitting on stock suspension at the moment. I did grease the U joints but it didn’t fix it so maybe I need to remove it and inspect yeh?
Don't forget about the front driveshaft. You may need to remove the driveshafts to check the operation of the u-joints. They should rotate smooth in both directions without any free play. Any sign that the movement is not smooth would point to this being your culprit. If you have a front driveshaft you may have a double cardon joint that will need careful inspection because they also have a centering ball that can go bad. Don't overlook your transmission and engine mounts or even the control arm bushings for your front and rear differential. Anything out of alignment or that can move under load can change the driveshaft operational angle which can cause vibration.
@@DrivelineMaster All u joints tight and fine. You recon I need to balance the shaft?
I just want to be clear because I can't stress this enough. You took the driveshaft off the vehicle and checked each u-joint by hand to make sure they moved freely with zero binding or stiff spots. This is important because the vibration you are describing is more likely a binding u-joint than it is an out of balance driveshaft. If they are all good now that I have expressed the importance of checking the u-joints while the driveshaft is off the vehicle and you have verified the integrity of the engine, trans and diff mounts then you can try to balance the driveshaft but I can't guaranty it will solve your problem. I basically leave the balancing of the driveshaft to the very last thing I try. I want to check everything else first. Then if everything else is confirmed to be good I proceed to balance the driveshaft. Good luck.
Bu teknik ile taşıtamiyacağın şeylerin balansını alabilirsin. Hayal gücünü kullan.
Tekniği nerede kullanacağına sen karar ver.
Teknik için teşekkürler.👍
Out of curiosity, why would you not remove the wheels and tires? Seems like you could be introducing a vibration from a slightly imbalanced wheel((possibly from all the random rocks left in the thread)I'm kidding of course).
Yes, I could have and should have if I wanted a truer representation of the driveshaft balance. I knew the tires were in balance and skipped a step.
@@DrivelineMaster Just the same, thank you for sharing the info, I never thought about hose clamps before.
I hate running wheels off the ground and ive been wrenching for a good while. Even on big blocks, it seems like my truck would shake itself off.
Thinking about shortening a couple axles myself and wanted to see if there was a way to permanently balance them myself.
If i used the intended weights and tape carefully evenly measured, think there would be much difference after welding and removing tape?
This technique must be done using EXTREME CAUTION!. Even running on a hoist with quality jack stands is dangerous and scary however there is no other way to do this short of taking the driveshaft to a specialty shop for balancing. Question 2, that balance might change after welding depending on how much welding material you use. You won't need much to hold the weight in place. If you keep the welding material to a minimum you should be OK.
@@DrivelineMaster i gotta be honest, i do enough stupid things already and if can get it balanced for a hundred bucks, ill happily go that route.
Had been fighting with the truck for a few hours and was a bit tired by the time i saw video. Back to full cognition and its all nope! Lol
Had to cut 1 3/4" off the inside of a split yoke this morning to get front drive shaft comfy after an axle upgrade. Took just under 1/3rd , almost 1/4 of the total splined portion off. Finished it by hand files.
Can this repair be done at an auto shop; would they actually know?
It depends on your shop and the skill level of the technicians. You can direct them to my video if they don't know how to do this. Many don't know how to gauge the vibration that is why I came up with the simple to make tool.
Seems like there should be some sort of calculation you could do to reduce the iterations of adjustment & test.
Low budget minimal brain power. I do have an advanced balance tool that uses a vibration sensor, speed sensor and computing power (NVH Tool) to minimize the number of trial and error attempts but the time to set up almost offsets the extra tries. Additionally the cost is into a few thousand US dollars.
Left wheel is out of round, think it would be more accurate w/out wheels cause it affects vibration onto diff and further to driveshaft
Absolutely but it was still obvious that I was able to smooth out the water vibrations from moving the clamps around demonstrating that I was removing driveshaft vibration.
@@DrivelineMaster sure, it is amazing technique, wish i have seen this earlier... thumbs up!
When balancing a two piece shaft that has a rubber bush around the central bearing, would you look to balance each half? Any tips for this situation, like starting with the clamps away from the centre to minimise their effect, and iteratively moving them towards the centre?
I would start at the differential yoke end first and see if the problem goes away before attempting to balance the end closest to the center bearing. If the balance job becomes complicated it should go to a specialty shop. I normally do this to verify that I can solve the vibration problem by balancing the driveshaft. If this solves the problem I then suggest to the customer that the driveshaft be removed and sent to a professional shop to be balanced.
@@DrivelineMaster Thank you.
more than awesome thank you
👍
So do u leave the clamps or how do u attach weights identical to the clamps
Brandon Keele the clamps are the weight and stay on.
Random Stuff thanks I plan on trying this
Yup. Just leave the clamps on the driveshaft where they are.
DrivelineMaster it amazes me there is no one I can find in my are or surrounding that does this.
@@KeeleDesign I even ask mechanics where i am who balances drive shafts and no one knows.. Some of my friends don't even know about it and these are guys who are seasoned in pulling down their vehicles.