Powering An Old Mill 1.5 Kw Lake District Overshot Waterwheel Project Part 5
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- In this video I got to install an overspeed controller and fix a broken weld on the wheel. the controller is very simple. it reads the speed of the wheel via a proximity sensor and triggers a really if it goes passes a set value. that then drives an actuator that pulls out a pin and shuts the water off.
It takes great integrity to show what you're not proud with. Seeing both the good and bad makes these projects far more interesting to follow. Unlike some overproduced, cherry picked fairy-tale that gloss over all the bads just to look good.
Thank you.
Exactly! 👌🏻
True.
Absolutely! 👌 Incredible as always Kris. Can’t wait to see more on the barn!
When you are getting paid the best thing you can show is honesty, that includes being realistic and accepting own mistakes.
Well done for showing your mistakes! Weld fatigue is the cause of a massive percentage of structural failures, so it's always interesting to see another real world case study. The failure is somewhat unsurprising, given that at 1.5kW and around 10rpm, the torque generated is some 1400NM, and probably higher given the efficiency losses of the generation system. Additionally, the diameter of the wheel makes for quite a bit of leverage, so the plate that suffered from the weld fatigue is having to resist any forces acting perpendicular to the rotation of the wheel (e.g. from water landing in the buckets at a bias, or wobbling of the wheel from side to side as it runs.).
On top of that, the weld that failed would be quite a low fatigue class, with the closest match probably being class 36, meaning that it was always susceptible to fatigue failure under cyclic loading.
Given that it's been running for about 2 weeks, at an average of 10RPM, it's only seen around 200,000 cycles (complete turns). According to the SN curve for a class 36 weld, that would suggest that the direct stress seen by the welded plate is in the region of or above 100 MPa - a number far greater than would be generated by just the torque alone. I'd therefore presume that the main cyclic loading is coming from the wheel "wobbling" from side to side as it runs, causing the welded plate to flex continuously.
In order to alleviate this, I'd suggest some triangulation braces (perhaps 4, one every 90°) running from the outer perimeter of the wheel back down to the hub. Even at quite a shallow angle, these would provide a lot of stiffness to the structure and prevent the hub plate from being flexed as the wheel rotates.
🤯uhhhhh..........Uhhhhh........ Yeah. What this guy just said.
Engineer?
What book contains this magic you speak of, sir?
@@BIGWIGGLE223 il est ingénieur ! C'est super , beaucoup d'humains sont ingénieurs, tu oublies que son cerveau est créateur , l'humain a oublié , ce n''est pas tous, qu'il a les capacités de créer et de comprendre , c'est vrai sans passer par la connaissance acquise depuis des Années si tu ne fais pas d'études !: Excepté que, il y en a par dessus la tête d'avoir un escroc un mal honnête qui décide de ce qui doit, être et pas être ! tu nous fatigues, laisse l'esprit penser ! Allez vous faire voir ! ça nous plait, on s'en fiche , nous nous enfichons de tes diplomes d'ingénieurs , on s'en contre fiche, les idées viennent d'ailleurs ! va voir le magicien, il va te faire tourner au dessus du sol!
@@BIGWIGGLE223 regardes ce que je vais commenter ! l'idée est d'utiliser le poids, la masse et non pas le courant ! et cela fonctionne et à cause, d'un seul qui bloque tout parc-qu' l'idée n'est pas de lui ! si les idées ne proviennent pas des égocentrés , orgueilleux, cela ne doit pas exister ! va te faire voir, fiche le camps sur une autre planète !
I think the shape of those buckets is causing the wheel to wobble.
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The water flowing towards the bucket is resisted by the water coming out of the bucket at high speed in the same opposite direction.
In Hydel power stations, they use different types of buckets on turbine. I those turbines, , the water after hitting the bucket gets diverted in the other direction but not in the opposite one
Been missing your videos man! Great to see you back. Can’t wait to see some barn updates.
It’s pretty cool to know that Kanye West is watching as well.. 👍🏻
What he said...
Your level of knowledge and ingenuity is seriously impressive!
I am so jealous of this customer - having a river to produce electricity from would be my dream but to take advantage of it with such an amazing waterwheel... well, if ever I buy a property with a river, I'll be calling on Kris to build me one.
I like your overspeed failure shut off system!
One useful component for such systems is the cheap electromagnetic door "lock" device normally used to hold doors open or shut. You can get these cheaply in all sort of voltage ranges (AC & DC) and they have huge holding force for tiny amounts of power, and of course, when you remove the current the electromagnet is not a magnet so they are intrinsically fail safe. In this case, the sluice blocking gate could have been held up by such a magnet, and released on either a loss of system power or an overspeed event. This is far simpler mechanically than the chain and pin system so there are less ways it could fail to operate 🙂
I've found this project fascinating and Ive learned a lot, thanks. I like the failsafe that shuts down the water flow, but if it was mine I'm sure birds, squirrels etc would land on the chain that pulls the pin out!
Maybe just cover it with a tube?
A bird sitting on the chain would not pull it out. and if it did the worst that would happen is a few hours of power would be lost.
@@KrisHarbour - thanks for the reply Kris. I hope you drop a few updates on the water wheel in from time to time, it's been fascinating and inspiring.
@@KrisHarbour
I don't think a couple of tits would worry it....
Great project Kris, well done.
A 1 year review of the water wheel would be really interesting next January if you can do that 🤞
Great project and great outcome 👍
What a completely honorable tradesman! I bought 3 "Made In China" heavy-duty automotive tools over 4 1/2 yrs. and they are all junk. I now NEVER buy from China, not even casual shoes. The quality of workmanship of any Western European, British or United States manufacturer far exceeds that of China or any Asian country. Kris Harbour is a tradesman of remarkable talent, patience and fortitude. Thanks very much for all 5 episodes which took a ton of time to film and assemble into a remarkable CZcams video.
What I love about your water projects is you keep things as simple and straightforward as possible. It seems like so many inventors/makers try to make things as complicated as they can. Then it’s hard to understand and I would imagine, hard to execute. Your solutions are simple, doable, and much more sustainable over time because of that. Truly a pleasure to watch and learn from.❤️🤗🐝
Kudos for the Welsh production. Much more honest and relatable than most of the Hollywood rubbish, where no one makes mistakes. Well done Kris
Great job as always Kris. Defo a project to be proud of. All new tech have teething issues, so it takes nothing away from the engineering that's gone into this. Well done mate.
We all get days like you had, and you can not carry everything around with you. Been good to watch and I hope you all celebrate well and raise their glasses to you and your customer. For undertaking this project, well done and keep safe!
Congratulations on achieving a successful outcome on the water wheel - fascinating engineering. Happy New Year, Kris.
I loved this series on the water wheel but i cant hardly wait to see you working on the barn . Its been a long wait but i know it will be worth it. Without a doubt my favorite utube channel. Well done with the water wheel,i wish there was more contractors like you with your work ethics,honor and integrity.
That relay and safety mechanism is simple, effective and genius. Absolute pleasure watching this channel. Brilliant!
One of the best channels on CZcams. I like how he doesn't use his videos to push merch or sponsors. Instead, he focuses on quality content and honest content. Other channels' content often feels contrived . I have followed this channel from the beginning and it is the one I have been subscribed to for the longest. There were other channels that I was subscribed to before this one but have unsubscribed because it seemed like their projects were created solely for the purpose of having another video to publish to CZcams. Great channel and keep up the great work.
👍
I have been following your channel for a long time. I am always amazed at how well you manage to make this topic understandable to me, an absolute layperson in electrical engineering. Thank you very much for the great entertainment!
The failure is most likely due to the steel having a heat affected zone (HAZ) in the area of the break possibly micro cracking and brittle fracture, your over plating should work but maybe an idea to read up on how to limit the affect (heat treatment for instance) Also relatively easy and cheap to check using dye penetrant technique. You may already know this of course 🙂Hope it all works out.
I wonder if there is a another design that doesn't require any welding?
I was thinking a few triangular flanges / buttresses from the shaft, spreading the torque forces out further onto the hub-drum.
Or not understanding or modelling the forces at play and just winging it.
It's the normal problem welding around a solid shaft, the weld shrinks as it cools and rips off the flange. The cure is first use flexible weld rods and secondly hammer peen the weld as it cools so the weld stretches, it's standard practice especially welding castings.
getting some equipment VT (white, red penetration & developer paint) & MT (magnetic powder & electromagnet, for cracks not visible from the outside) testing on high load areas might be worth getting. for increasing cooldown time and therefore reducing/eliminating martensite creation (hardening with loss of ductility other symptoms if the outer surface of the HAZ solidifies prior to the inside would be cracking due to the immense pressure buildup from the formation of martensite which entrains volumetric expansion), ceramic heating blankets might be a good investment too. and of course just proper preheating.
concerning the stick welds on site, i doubt that the rods were properly dried (there are mobile ovens for sitd welding so you always have some freshly dried rods on hand) so i would definetely watch out for hydrogen britleness, but if you go back with a mig and properly grind out all the old welds, should be able to save it.
Excellent Wrap up Engineering. The current flow is ideal for full performance with practically no impingement. You've taken a unique old water power site and breathed new life into it with the modern controllers an monitoring abilities.
This goes down as one of the best technical design project progression video series ever made.
It’s great seeing the whole process. And not just the celebrations or not just the failures, but the reality of what it takes to be successful.
Very impressive how close you were able to come to the efficiency estimates in your brief. Beautifully engineered and executed!
Great to see the progress. In all of your video's for this water wheel, I only had concern for the thickness of that failed plate, with respect to fatigue failure. However, with 1.5 kW and 30 RPM being pushed through the shaft, I calculate that the plate at the location of failure was experiencing roughly 5 MPa of shear stress. The yeild of the material is roughly 200 MPa. The cyclic stress range would have had to have been 120ish MPa for the failure to occur within a few days. There would need to have been some crazy wobbling cyclic stuff going on that you weren't aware of for that to happen, and then the other side didn't fail. It had to be an issue with the material/welding.
Firstly, I admire the research and work that you have put forth with your wind turbine and water generation projects. Much respect.
After retiring from mechanical engineering after 40+ years, much of it in designing for fatigue and mitigating fatigue failures of the designs of others, your construction of the water wheel rotor at the shaft interface was an "oh oh". I have seen many such constructions fail in fatigue much as your failure in a fairly short time. The thin "diaphragm" from the larger pipe to the shaft is very problematic in fatigue (lacking weld quality aside). BTW Multiple diaphragms only lengthens the process and makes the destruction worse.
When rewarding, clean surfaces very thoroughly, grind out defects as best as possible (worst enemy in fatigue), controlled build with MIG towards as large a radius as possible, cooling as slowly (insulate) between passes. Repeat process until access is gone, Finish with gringing, polishing, coating area with epoxy to protect. The torsional element of the stresses is not present on the non-drive end, but will most likely follow in time.
Kris, this has been extremely fascinating to watch. Thank you for taking us all in your journey!
Kris, i deal with a similar failure quite often on conveyor head rollers at my work, which are constructed in an identical manner. They never fail around the weld but always above like you've described. Ive been removing the head rollers and modifying them to accept a "ringfeder" or a keyless shaft taper lock. Obviously it would be a huge amount of work to carry out a modification on what youve got here, but may be a good solution for something in the future.
You may already be familiar, but these taper locks are very effective and reliable. Makes for ease of assembly and can transmit a huge amount of torque.
This series has been really interesting 24/7 free power who wouldn't want that in this day and age. All the fail safe features are a good addition and well thought out as with all your projects you do. Happy new year Kris and keep up the great work.
Almost nothing is free. I suspect it will be years before the owner breaks even. Still it’s an outstanding project. 👍
Hi Kris, I have just moved to a 10.5 acre homestead in wales and I just started a channel. Thanks so much for the inspiration. I have watched your channel for years and it’s because of people like you that I am living my best life 👍
lol
Great stuff. I’d like to do the same myself one day 👍
Awesome work and so jealous of your skills and this customers setup! 🙂 Brilliant series and such a great project. Like others have said you have showed us it warts and all which really shows your dedication
Kris if you put a sheet metal ring attached to the wheel on the generator side. It will prevent water from splashing over onto your gear box, and generator. I know you have a cover, but it would offer some additional protection. Our forefathers would be proud of you. Great job.
Good to see episode 5, I am enjoying these.
I find it odd that the generation of water wheel power requires the grid power to be up. It seems if the grid fails, the water wheel power would be most needed.
Welders worldwide always defend their crappy-looking welds as strong. But when tested to failure, they aren't really very strong. I'd fix it sooner than later.
Loved watching this series! My only addition would be to avoid using galvanised steel bolts in with the steel bearing housing. You can see the zinc in the galvanised steel is already causing corrosion in the carbon steel, due to the difference in galvanic their series. I would suggest using a sacrificial anode or using nylon washers to separate the metals.
You’re true and honest with your work which shows through in pride. Looking forward to some more barn work. Excellent. Thank you!
I'm clapping 👏👏👏 after watching your Videos for the first time. Wow! The best green Channel on CZcams.
I love your customers disposition. You learn and all of us. Give that man a Bells.😊
Yep, the customer has been great and part of the fun of getting it working.
Loved the series Kris, what a brilliant project.
Congratulations Kris, your first professional water propelled electric generator, installed and running. I love it!👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Now your overspeed switch is beyond brilliant. Well done.
Enjoyed the series about the waterwheel. Looks great!
Looking forward for the barn, will be so epic!
Great to see you back Kris, you've been missed. Happy New year!
Congrats mate. Great job, really enjoyed watching the whole job unfold.
Regarding the cover/enclosure for the gearbox and generator - from what I could see, it appears that the housing is open from the underside, making it possible for a curious child/cat/squirrel etc. to access the rotating pulleys and belts. With older cars or tractors such accidents happened occasionally when cats got in there attracted by the warmth of the engine. I'd recommend putting some perforated sheet metal or wire mesh there, so ventilation is still possible but the moving parts are shielded.
It certainly doesn’t comply with the Supply of Machinery (safety) Regulations and therefore doesn’t have a CE or UKCA mark. I’ve raised this before and it wasn’t responded to.
It might seem a bit mean to raise this but it’s enforced by the HSE and is criminal under English Law. Just being a one off designer and erector doesn’t mean it doesn’t apply.
Great work but follow the law.
@@paulharrison2325 I design and manufacture custom embedded systems that go in various hvac and industrial products. I noticed that as far as regulations for conformity/safety etc. go, such stuff is often handled a bit lax, except for the large companies that have copies of all relevant standards (expensive) or contract this aspect out (very expensive). The smaller companies or startups often don't even know there are regulations regarding a particular issue and that they might expose themselves to lawsuits or liabilities. Do you know any other solution for a small startup or 1-man operation except making a best effort to gather information about the relevant standards, purchasing books about the topic, and maybe purchasing the relevant standards as originals and then of course go through your design and make it conform? This topic is easy if you are an employee of a big company (go to the library) but if you just started and you need to buy so 2000€ worth of DIN or IEC standards just to actually know what it is you have to comply with, that's a bit harder. IMHO this information should be public, such that even a 1-man operation has all the info available to check if they are doing everything as it should be. Like it is with building codes for example.
@@tpa6120a2dwp the Supply of Machinery (safety) Regulations is freely available. It’s a law agreed to by parliament. I deal with small and large businesses in the engineering sector and they all understand what a CE mark/UKCA mark is. You don’t have to follow British Standards etc to comply with the law, it’s just one approach.
I suspect in this case, what he is building needs to comply with the Supply of Machinery (safety) Regulations (what most people call the machinery directive) and the Low Voltage Electrical Equipment (safety) Regulations. I can’t see any items that separately require compliance with the Construction Product Regulations.
For both, this type of work would be self-certified (a declaration of conformity) but you have to follow the process. Unfortunately I don’t think the water wheel complies with the machinery directive just to the number of unguarded moving parts. I can’t comment on the electrical side as what he has shown is limited. Note that just because an electrician has carried out the 230 V work doesn’t mean it complies - there is a control system and dump system etc which all needs to comply.
Unfortunately accessing standards is expensive. I use IHS but this would not be affordable for a one man company. Lots of engineering memberships give you access to similar electronic libraries however.
I probably need to reinforce the point - in the most part, compliance with regulations does not absolutely require you to follow standards. However, in some cases it does or for all intents and purposes it does. Try to sell a structural steelwork product not compliant with EN 1090 for example. Thinking it through, I can’t tgk k of any specific standards he would have to work to except BS 7671.
The problem with not following CE marking is that it is criminal, not civil.
And it looks great, too!!! ❤ Congratulations on getting through so many hurdles so beautifully and with such integrity 😊
so impressed with your ingenuity and skill!!
Congratulations Kris! So impressed with your patience and adaptability in doing this project!
Really enjoy these videos and your honesty about your work. Especially the type of pride in your work that you show.
Keep it up!
Adorable determination throughout the project, well done gentlemen.
Appreciate the video Kris! Your really are covering all possibilities!
Great work and series, thanks for showing the problems along with the successes, very honest and brave. Looking forward to more like this!
Great project, you did a wonderful job and the customer should be quite happy to have worry free clean energy for many many years to come!
Congrats! I enjoyed the series thank you.
Awsome loved this … and the fact you showed all the pitfalls makes it better awesome 👏
Great video series, thanks. A very interesting project showing all the problems that have to solved when designing any system, there's always RV 1, 2 etc. In the old days the miller would be the control system, using eyes, ears & years of experience to control the flow. When building windmills & water mills they must have faced the same issues.
Happy New Year to you two and here’s hoping 2024 is productive to you. Enjoyed watching the series Kris and the work arounds. Stay well and looking forward to the continuation of the barn.
Amazing bit of work! 👍
I've done the same experiment with my students.
I showm them yours one.
Y
They've become your fan.
They did try the same after getting impressed with you and your dedication .
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Nice job.
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Some suggestions ( that we did implement )
1. Increase the diameter of that turbine wheel . This way it'll have more power to rotate the generator with the same amount of water.
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2. Add cooling system with the generator to add some to its efficiency as efficiency comes down with increasing temperature.
You won't need anything extra . Just use that flowing water to keep it cool. But make sure to make it waterproof
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3. Change the shapes of waer bowls of the wheel to increase its efficiency.
You must study about Hydel power generation turbines and their shapes.
Amazing series well done Chris , looking forward to seeing the next barn vid
Thanks for posting and sharing. Great to hear that you’re feeling good enough to move on from the water wheel. Great to see the final result.
I really enjoyed this series! I loved all your different fides for the problems you encountered. Great job and great video. Thanks again 👍
Glad to see you back. Looking forward to the barn, garden, and rural life in general.
Yes mate, well in!! Blessings to you 🙏 thank you for all your amazing information and videos ❤
I thoroughly enjoyed watching you build this and work through all of the issues with us. This was a fantastic project in a fantastic series. I've been telling quite a number of people about it. Thank you again for sharing it
Very interesting series and impressive job!
Great job
Don't be too hard on yourself.
Not many people building these on their own.
Congratulations! Job well done 🎉
There was a moment- perhaps only the breath of a hope - that Kris was leading us towards a simpler world, not least one in which we could rely on rain to fill streams to turn wheels that let us watch tv on a mobile phone. But it seems - even when it's simple and nifty - that when I look towards the skies, electronic dump load falls on my head. Still my favourite content anywhere in the universe. ❤
Great job Kris! Loved this series 👍🏻
Very nice job getting all the fail safes in place. Love the power of hydro so many places it can be used
awesome project
Thanks for bringing us along
This was really interesting to watch, and seeing you problem solving and fixing it was great. Looking forward to seeing you finish the barn.
Great series, really interesting and informative, thanks for sharing!
You had some days off work over Christmas, how dare you hahaha. I hope that you took at least a week off, if not two, glad to see you are looking relaxed and ready for another year. Happy new year.
Very impressive project. Great to see natural power being harnessed in such a clever way using old and new technology in harmony. Well done.
Great series on this build. I really like the amount of detail you put into your build. Would be awesome to see some kind of automated feed water flow control, but that's another whole level of complexity.
Happy New Year Kris! I love this attention to detail on your part.
Really enjoyed this series. Thanks for sharing.
Yes Kris, hope you see my comment. I was going to tell you in your last video when you mentioned that hydroelectric is better than solar panel, because first one is generating electricity 24 hours a day and solar panels only when its bright which is right, but the down side of hydro is it requires too much maintenance and solar requires very little to no maintenance
Even if you have fifteen KWH per day that is a really useful amount of energy to be getting from a piece of instructive art 👍🤓
Congratulations! Great project!
You know what Kris, you've got a real talent for engineering. There's always mistakes along the way but you've got such a great ability to see where fault is in the system. It's impressive.
Really enjoyed seeing this Kris, perhaps an update of one years worth of generation wouldn't go amiss.
Such a beautiful project, amazing to see
Beside the barn I miss the garden and the geese. Congratulations on finishing water wheel project!
Great job mate 👍🏼 Really enjoy your content, especially your problem solving bits.
Hi Kris. Stumbled upon part one of your water wheel videos a couple of days ago, and I’ve been progressing through to this latest one. I’ve enjoyed them all. They’ve been educational, instructive, and thought provoking.
We have 4 kW of solar and today, the 29th of January, 2 kWh. As you say, it’s the constant output, 24 hours a day, that makes water generation a practical solution. Mind you, the owner is very lucky to have a river flowing past the side of his house.
Now subscribed, so looking forward to seeing another report in around a year’s time, as others have requested.
Many thanks Noel.
Love the amount of redundancy built in the system. Well done!
Loved that project amazing 😊
I am glad you are back Kris. I've been wondering about the water wheel and the barn project. Hopefully, you all had a great holiday season, and I'm looking forward to finishing up the barn, which I know is about 30 videos from completion.
Great job! It was an amazing project!
Certainly not a project to be underestimated, Kris. I know I don't underestimate it. Wauw. Personally, I've never seen anyone build this, until now. So yeah! 🙂👍
I'd paint it some more, in a couple a places, but that's me. If I were to own such a project that is. And I'd want a little Wattage readout on the wheel or the cover. Personal pref..
Happy New year Kris and Dot. Xxx It is a valid point learned...you are wiser each time. 👍💝
Dont be disheartened, youve learned a lot, so have we, and thr job was successful regardless of the set backs. We live we learn. Every tradesmen goes through this as you know well
Fantastic, excellent work Kris 😊
So glad you took a break over the holiday, you look rested so it definitely worked. I do enjoy your videos Chris, as an outdoorsy type myself but with chronic fatigue (long covid) for the last 18 months, I don’t get out much anymore and the beautiful countryside around you is a tonic for me, makes me want to get better.
Thanks
I’m looking forward to seeing your barn work and completion
Top job enjoyed the series cheers
This is really impressive and inspiring. I’m surprised that you’re able to get so much power out of a wheel and have it look so good at the same time.
Teething problems on a large, one off job , like this are inevitable . It's the manner in which it's dealt with, shows your skill and integrity . This, you have shown in all your projects. Well done fella. Looking forward to the next vid.👌👌👍👍.
Wooo thats awesome! Been really cool watching this project. Awesome to see it all finished now!
Fantastic! I just love how this water wheel develops so much power from so little water flow. Beautiful technology and a delight to see. If you ever think what to say next about it, share those classics, what would you do again? what would you change? though don't navel gaze too much. It's a great project really well executed, delivering incredible electrical power from sustainable resources.