HOI4 Should you Annex or Puppet Countries? (Hearts of Iron 4 Tutorial)
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- čas přidán 16. 09. 2018
- Today we got a Hearts of Iron 4 Tutorial Regarding when should you annex and puppet in hoi, most people blindly annex but there is a strategy about when you should annex, or puppet, in this walkthrough we go over when you should puppet or annex in hoi4 for the best results
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The axis would have won if they watched this video before their attempt at world domination.
Why? They "puppeted" every country they invaded. For example vichy france
Valtteri Lahti Yes, but their occupation methods were rather... ineffective.
@@thelastcasualty2696 xDDD
They didn't completely annexed much in real life
Germany completely annexed Austria, Sudetenland, Alsace and Lorraine, West Prussia, Memel, Luxembourg and a piece of Belgium and Slovenia
Japan completely annexed Korea and Taiwan
Italy completely annexed a piece of Slovenia, Dalmatia
@@user-ei6dz3yh1z They established Reichskommissariats and Reichsproatektorates, such as Bohemen-Moravien, Belgian-Nordfrankreich, Niederland, Norwegien, Ostland, etc
I usually decide by looking at the map
“Hmm will it look good if I annex them, no, no it won’t, fine then, puppet!
No no you got it backwards. You have to create the biggest eye sore imaginable.
Jacob yes
@@Jacob-vl6ts no i only annex because i conquer the world
@@Jacob-vl6ts I used a mod called player led peace conferences, got every country bordering Russia to attack it, gave off tiny provinces all around(never connected) to each nation that fought.
Me in a nutshell 😂👌🏻
I love that you used Austria as an example, a country where Germany can get cores lol.
srry 😂
I just captured Austria 🇦🇹
@@octopusguy5648 ez
Poland would ahve been a better idea
The puppet template thing is Together For Victory only
thx
No. I can do this too and i only have Death or Dishonor and Waking the tiger
BaumiFX its a bug then
Stanisław Dyrcz i dont think so but as long as i can use it im fine...or how should someone play Brittain without India
You are fake news
If you need manpower -> Puppet if the country that you want to puppet has a good amount of population.
If you don't need manpower -> Annex it.
(Sorry for the bad english)
you all good
@@dustinl796 Thanks!
Your English is fine! Keep practicing and you'll sound perfect in no time. Good luck!
@@florbengorben7651 Thank you so much!
@@cruzdesangre2850 where are you from and what's your mother tongue?
What if I puppet for a very simple reason: Because I’m too lazy to micro-manage the country I just conquered...
I do it all the time too lol
Yes, especially canada
LOL
You need factory -annex
You need manpower - puppet if enemy contry have bigger population.
but isnt that more simple than other vids ;)
That's probably a good rule of thumb, but it's not quite as simple as that.
To recruit units with your subjects' manpower, you need to create a new template for the subject (for each subject you want to recruit from). So it requires having enough army xp to create the new templates, and it only helps with new divisions not reinforcing existing divisions. And you do get some manpower from annexed territory, despite the large penalty (and there are some modifiers, like the Lord of Terror, that reduce the penalty).
On the other hand, occasionally having subjects can increase the total factories available to your faction, if not you personally. Most nations get a bunch of free factories through their national focus tree (11, IRC, in the generic tree), so if they haven't taken those yet leaving a small nation as a puppet can get a bunch of free factories (with extra building slots, even).
To "reinforce" existing division you can change it to colonial template
Gregory, as far as I know if you release a puppet, they get your division templates.
Based on some quick testing, if you release one of the releasable nations that have cores but don't exist at game start they get your templates. But if you annex a nation and then release it, it keeps its old templates.
It's true that you can convert an existing nation to a colonial template, so that's something, but you're going to lose a bunch of experience on the unit, so there's still a cost.
always annex, cause no dlc ;D
F, but same situation here.
saaaaame
well with no dlc yea TAKE IT ALL!!!!!!
Well just crack the dlc's lmao. I bought death or dishonor only and cracked the rest including waking the tiger
not always true. if they have a large population you can still lend lease them equipment and request the units they raise. its not as in depth as tfv but you can still pull it off.
Me: *plays japan*
Me: *needs manpower*
Me: eh puppets are overrated
Also me: *annexes All oF china*
Dogemacht42 *WORLD TENSION 58% in 1938*
Germany: Mien gott...
Winter is coming
Also me, goes mobile warfare for extra inf org and mp
How in the world do you need manpower as Japan? They get 3% from Navy/Army vompetition decision and another 3.5% from national focus. Thats almost 6 million Japanese men, not even mentioning you can use Manchukuo to beef you up with their 40 million population.
Evilsamar 2% from Army/Navy and 2,5% from focus. -3% of Total mobilization= 1,5% only
When playing Italy, I always puppet Ethiopia - since that war is already underway when you start the game, you can get a puppet within Feb'36 (no need to wait for PP or Justify timer). Before the war starts in '39, I'd have already pumped 30+ 20 width divisions out of them and used them to take out Yugoslavia and Turkey without ever needing to change Italy's conscription laws until half way into 1940. And Ethiopia only has 10 mill pop - but they will automatically keep changing laws to "scrapping the barrel" once they have enough PP if you keep recruiting colonial troops out of them. (If you want to conquer Africa, you can also start right away as troops in Somalia etc. will switch to draw supplies from the puppet's capital rather than Rome and not be cut off until you can take and open the Suez Canal for your supply ships.)
Things you missed:
1) The puppet goes down their own focus tree and get free factories/infrastructure depending on the focus tree.
2) You don't get resistance if u puppet ukraine and give ukranian cores back to ukraine while invading russia. Same for belarus and vichy france.
3) Your puppet trains its own units/gets its own exp which theyll use for templates u can copy
4) Your puppets will research and you will be able to do research sharing or licencing to get their techs.
5) Depending on the country, the puppet may have better advisors or national spirits.
lota good points but.... 1 that only helps them 2 you wouldnt get resistance anyway if you puppet them
@@dustinl796u can request they're troops
I like to take the provinces with resources and puppet the rest
It makes a lot of bordergore but it's fixed once they're annexed
meh that could work ;)
why puppet if you annex afterwards?
Puppeting will let you still have resources whilst getting the free trade bonuses. Provided you have the a couple factory's to trade
Nice pfp
@@xxCreeperPLxx if you dont need their manpower anymore you can annex them
2:55 Yes DLC only
What Dlc
@@minecraftgamer4360 Believe its "Together for Victory"
Yea tfv
@@dustinl796 So then what is your opinion if you don't have the dlc
Ive owned this game for a while and had never realy got a grip of it and it started getting boring buy your videos have helped me become so much better and Ive started to enjoy the game again! Keep up the good content! 👍
You often need a Paradox game to tick a few days before everything updates properly. Every time you mess around, you should do that.
can you elaborate on that statement?
@@dustinl796 basically, game updates every changed data at the end of in-game day. That's why sometimes game can stutters for a second due to large sum of data being changed.
I only have death of dishonour and I can recruit divisions from my puppets.
It actually depends on how you play the game and how powerful that puppet is gonna be.
Good point
if I remember correctly, it's 80 resources per Civ to Integrated Puppets, 20 per Civ to normal Puppets and then 13 per Civ to Dominions and not uh 40 30 and 20
You just basically solved my issue with having too much land to cover with troops. Currently in my Road to 56 modded germany game, Italy formed a faction with Hungry since both are pissed at me for not sharing land, and allowing the Greeks to join my faction. I'm going to annex Hungry while puppeting Italy now that I see Puppeting a nation is worth it.
2:50 thats in the dlc
ah thank you
pirate the dlc
Here's an IRL example of how powerful a puppet can be.
In 1940, the british blasted the french navy out of the water just on the offchance that it might join Vichy France, and thus the Axis.
I think they just wanted to recreate Trafalgar
Thanks, that was some useful information. I'll return the favor now: there are programs that let you edit videos and crop out the undesired bits. When should you use them? Whenever you make a mistake in a video or when a demonstration fails. Why should you use them? To make better videos. ^_^
(I know that sounded super extremely patronizing, but I was just making a suggestion in a funny way, please don't take it to heart.)
yea i know, i have adobe after effects but i like leaving in these things to more show im like the other people on here learning this game 1 step at a time :)
If you are able to you should never puppet the industry is more valuable. If you are starting to get short on manpower just make 1 puppet with the highest possible manpower.
Don’t actually make them proper divisions just make a pure infantry divisions and add them to recruitment pool. Don’t deploy just recruit if they have a land border this is easier if not you need to do an extra step.
1. Land border? If yes go to step 3
2. Lend lease them as many convoys as possible.
3. Send them every possible piece of equipment,tanks and airplanes.
4. Build infrastructure or factories in their territories
5. Once they have 0 manpower annex them.
6. Cancel the recruiting
7. They join your glorious manpower pool
8. You now have their recourses, factories, manpower and your lend lease equipment back
"also if you guys have any rain tapping you know thunder asmr all that kind of stuff in the background"
Please dont talk about asmr -_-
ehheheh xD
i know is kind of degenerate
This is very informative. Now I can abuse my puppets with their manpower. Maybe as a topic for your next video you can do Tactical bombers. The pros and cons and on when you should use it
hmm, thats not a bad idea ill write it down ';)
I always create a puppet who I give all of the islands I take to. I will also just create a giant puppet for all if Africa, up to Cairo.
that sounds fun.....
i like how in the tumbnail you have churchil for your german pupets lol
I just puppet every country i can because i think its cute when they create units to fight in your wars
lol
would be nice to see comments about La Resistance and how compliance and the new collaboration government factors in to when/why to puppet or collab
I personally think that if your empire is bigger than Germany and Poland, I would start puppeting because it gives you a free faction and if there is a thin part in your territory your armies in that territory won't be out of supply but annexing terriory around you wil normally give you enough resources to carry on expanding.
pretty good point
Very interesting video, thanks to share your knowledge.
thx, glad to share :)
Thanks! Teached me something Again!
I usually always annex which as I look now is super useless... You're a great man!
aww shucks 😊
The template thing from puppets seems to work with waking the Tiger too. At least for me, I got it for some reason when I installed it. Officially it should be for together for victory only.
To add on the buffer part, puppets count as allies regardless of whether their master is in a faction or not meaning that the ai will prepare troops on the puppets border when preparing to go to war regardless if they are called in or not. This can be useful as a distraction if you don't want to call in ANY allies for whatever reason (don't want to give up land, they will call in a vulnerable front, they ARE a vulnerable front, don't want them raising autonomy, etc). Plus if you still want their military help you can still take their troops and use them even if they haven't been formerly called in.
Example: As China you subjugated the warlords and choose to puppet Shanxi. Then you take your army and place them at the river starting from the shanxi's south to the coast (or directly at the border if you gave in to japan during Marco Polo Bridge Incident). When you/Japan declare war then not only do you have a smaller front to defend but the Japanese ai will waste divisions on the entire Shanxi border. Note: IIRC when I did this, Japan still eventually gained a wargoal against Shanxi but chose not to act on it and even if they did, I had my other puppet's troops ready to defend an already more prepared Shanxi. Regardless I hope this example illustrates the idea well enough.
not if you unclick the release as puppet part and release 😁
Formable nations can also affect the choice of annexing or not... unless you can form a nation when puppets controle the territories which I don't think it works. (ex: the nordic union / empire requires the player to own all the territories of jinland, denmark, norway and sweden) Those formable antions can make a massive difference as it gives cores on those territories, gich guves you taht manpower you wouldn't normally get from annexing
oh yea... i forgot about that 😱
The thing about your ''bug'' was, that you didnt have equipment so the manpower was just used to train those first 3 divisions ;)
Oh.... oops
😱 I didn't know about the free trading with puppets . Nice. Also,is there a way to direct a puppet's Navy?
hes right btw :)
I always puppet at least one state of a nation with a navy free warships are nice.
Ay thanks Dustin you stay safe mate
thx ill try
another underrated channel
then spread me in the hoi4 community like butter! jk, thx for liking :)
@@dustinl796 of course I will, you deserve it
Outside of his house is a storm
He: hello and welcome to a new video
GREAT VID MATE:)
Thanks 😉
In Juky, 1940, Churchill ordered the Royal Navy to attack the French Fleet at Mers-el-Kébir. They did it to prevent that exact scenario. The one you described.
i wish hoi4 had a discision related to this once france falls like 50% chance if sinking half the french navy and 50% of your navy sinking
Why you would choose to sink your own navy is a bit puzzling. I would like to see the AI have a choice. the French navy sinks, it joins the RN or you take it for yourself (Germany). In the real world what happened was the French fleet was effectively destroyed at Mers-el-Kébir, much of what was left was captured by the British at various ports across the Med. The left overs were controlled by the puppet French govt and then destroyed by the USN when we invaded N Africa. If the British and French commanders had been a bit less head-strong there would have been a strong chance the French Fleet would have abandoned it's own govt and joined the British. I'm just starting to play this game and every time I look at something this thing gets more complex!! I love it. Thanks for your video.
When someone says
Nah, let's invade poland
Poland:"gulp" Help!!!
nah they say run 😂
And then the winged huzzars arive
Britan and france playing chess
France: did you here something?
Britan: Hear what?
France: nothing
Britan: Ha chekmate
France:DAMMIT
I think it's important to mention that many provinces will be cheaper to take in the peace deal if you puppet them and give them back their lands.
If you are the Soviets invading Germany, peace conference almost 100% involve France and the bordering provinces such as Piedmont will cost 1000 war score for you, which is ridiculous. The main reason you want Piedmont is not because of its factories, but because it shares a mountainous border with France, and if you puppet Italy and give Piedmont (it's Italian, but they will almodt certainly be involved, so yeah) to them, it will only cost 85 war score, which is great. And nations also seem to be reluctant to take another war participants' puppet's core, so I was able to get pretty much get all of Germany, Italy and Hungary while having 50% participation.
You can also annex a country through the autonomy system in which case you would get complete control over the puppet's navy. So in your last example you could lend lease a bunch of stuff to France and maybe build some infra to their remaining land and then annex them diplomatically and their navy would be completely yours.
ill have to try this again. last time i tried it the navy just vanished after annexing a puppet
bro you live in myrtle beach too, during florence i didnt lose power once, hope you had the same luck
Last four hurricanes we've had here I have never lost power LOL
@@dustinl796 this is the first time i didnt so, thats cool
totally agree, you cam always annex them quickly later giving a shitload of old equipment with land lease
right????
My question for this vid is... what happens if you puppet, create a bunch of divisions using your puppets manpower, then annex? Could be a cheese way to bank a bunch of manpower if you just have some really shitty inf-only divisions using mostly their manpower sitting in the queue, then annex them later?
When it comes to making a country a puppet, the size of the puppet comes into play as well. Like conquering Luxembourg as Germany. If Luxembourg go down the industry path, it’s free factories. No point making a puppet of a tiny nation. Unless you flood them with aircraft to be an air controller.
Agreed
Dustin, u inspire me so much, u make me realize that with hard work u can achieve anything
aww thanks, it has been very hard work tho, ive been uploading for 6+ years and only just recently started getting exposed :)
So in MTG its best to release everyone as France (except the ones who have resources, like vietnam) and let them spawn factories, that you could never build, with their national focuses.
Then use your puppets as industry multiplicator and more importantly - manpower sponge
When playing with the AI, usually with axis countries I always annex. Because if you puppet a country that country usually exist in one state because your allies take the rest of the country's states. But if you take all states and then release the nation they are going to be a more efficient puppet since they have their whole country and not just one state. Another plus is less border gore, the AI in this game can be modern art masters.
as germany sometimes i build 40's and need more manpower, thats why i puppet sometimes
Claims don’t really do much
They give a boost to just time and reduce the tension from justifying but that’s it. Its cores that give manpower and factories
I actually always puppet, unless I have cores. The additional manpower is just too good. I actually even release all my oversees territories except for northern africa when I play france.
I just like to puppet nations, because it looks so much better
Puppet when you hate border gore,annex when there isn't.
I only have the base game but i once got a bug where i was able to edit my subjects autonomy and steal their manpower. This game is so broken sometimes.
But that's what makes it so fun at the same time lol
Can you make a video about how to deal with resistance and sabotage in annexed lands?
Puppets are also useful if you don't want to deal with resistance
hi so I'm playing as Estonia and I want to take Vidzeme from Latvia so I have access to Lithuania and Poland but I leave the rest as my puppet state, the problem is that you said just to leave them alone but Vidzeme has their capital
wut do i do
When I play as germany, I always puppet some of the UK, because the AI ussualy do some useful naval invassions an then you can pump a shit ton of reserve divisions and rush for some undefended victory points.
yea that is pretty sweet
Puppets are great for front control, so I puppet everything that doesn't have enough factories and is not in central Europe (you receive worse supply in puppeted territories than in annexed territories and in Europe or against the USSR it is noticeable).
good idea :)
I dont really fond the option to puppet. Sometimes the AI just....bad at doing things and could mess up with your own plan. Just like my experience with Vichy france...The Allies always land their troops south of France, despite my order to defend it. Thanks to Italy that tend to fail defending their own soil from naval landings, I need to allocate few divisions to defend key ports. Messy place with messy supply routes.
Good thing from the puppet options is the "warmonger" penalty I guess? Its not as big as annexing though.
yea ais can be dumb sometimes but thats why you build the army for them (wink wink)
I go to Myrtle beach every year my grand parents live there!
its nice here aside from the hurricanes 😁
Imagine winning war and not clicking annex all
Don't agree with a lot of it, but the last tip is gold. As Germany i pretty much always attack bot italy and France and puppet both. With gives you a huge navy. Only thing Hoi4 creators need to work on is that you can set militairy targets for puppet navy's and army's. As germany it would help a lot with getting naval supremacy to invade the UK for instance.
Another big thing is if a country has a large navy like france or uk, instead of annexing all their land, puppet at least some of it. Then, annex them through the autonomy level and you get their entire navy for free!
yea good point
And also making puppet is a good idea because theid troops always holding front line as reserve division and they give you their civ factories too annexing countries without core or something making land bad because when you take land factorie limits are decreasing and you cannot built factorie and also puppets have nat.foc. so they can have factories
yea thats a good point ;)
Question though (I know, old video, but...) As of La Resistance:
a) are you still able to use their manpower like this if you puppet a country?
b) if so, do those divisions still use _your_ equipment for initial training, or _theirs_ by default?
In the rare case that, say, I'm training a Light Tank division with a copied Austrian template as shown and you actually have better/more advanced Light Tanks than Austria by one or even two steps, I probably don't want to be training them with their outdated Light Tanks and have to reupgrade them with ours all over again once they're in the field, so I just want to be sure that they'll automatically be using the best equipment available if I do this and won't be wasting time on upgrades.
I believe yes, it is still possible to use their manpower, but it is your equipment that is going to be used wether in the initial training or for resupply. You can train a bunch of division and check your logistic tap and see if it got down. Of course given you have Together for Victory DLC
and if you wanna start a faction, puppet is a good way to create
yea, thats good 2 :)
I like this reasoning.
thanks :)
You get only half of the building slots so if the state is max out you only gain half of all the factoris
Hmm, didnt notice that before
When you play Italy make etophia puppet he can make more then 50 divs I see in game I use 48 divs
yea thats a very common strat
Hey off topic, but im trying to utilise fort buster trait in my generals, but I am fully unable to see it, and also, im unable to assign bombers to specifically go for forts, are these two features only available with a certain dlc pack?
waking the tiger
Hey, it did not bug out as you said. The think is Austria die not bad enough Equipment for all of the 18 Division you trained. Only the first 4 had full Guns for Training and only these 4 took Manpower from Austria.
maybe, but later it did it
How do you pop it to country. Is already annexed because for me it only gives me the option to release the nation not released as a puppet
Hey I'm from Dirty Myrtle as well :o
Ohhhhh boiiii, 😂
Type "op" into the console and then ctrl click everything.
Much easier.
huh this was interesting to find out
Honest to god I just annex if it makes my borders look good and the nation isn’t on a different continent. If the nation is on a different continent I just puppet it.
and now, in 1.9 the annexation is useless. Good job Paradox.
0:00-2:40 Prepared to learn alot
2:49 *Hears "DLC" *
Bye
aww 😢
If you need manpower, and the object nation has a large population=puppet
If you need factories=annex
If you want clear borders=both (this is extremely important for me)
😉
we deserve a vid and u deserve a huge sub and like! thnx alot for twhat ur doing and i hope u gonna be ok
thanks :)
Even if you don’t have dlc you can still make barrier and naval stuff
good points :)
Can u make a top easy countryes? It s a good subject also very interesting.
Germany and usa 😁, ill work on it tho
Hurricane in his house , no problem u guys deserve a video
But you guys do 😁
the way how you was taking the manpower is very ineficcent
1. create a new templet with just one infantrie battalion
2. train a ton of the new templet and after 20% kick them out
3. change the new templet to the original templet of the puppet
ooooooooo, thats evil
So the 1 BN divisions you built from your own manpower switch to being manned by the puppet? Then disband them and you keep the manpower?
i puppet the coast and take the mainland i dont wanna deal with no navy.
good idea :)
Well I think what he's talking about is sometimes if someone is playing as Germany for example having to deal with an extra hundred ships may not be the smartest idea, it's sometimes might just be better to allow in a i fight in AI to have a better chance if you are too busy dealing with other things to micro it
Np 😁
Does it still make sense to puppet without the together for victory dlc? I mean it looks nicer without puppetting
probably not, helps with garrisons tho
wouldnt be nice if puppets give u supplies of their resource by 1/3 every day/week/month
North Carolina bois
Also thanks for the tips
Good luck dont drown 😢
Well then Paradox really needs to fix the ai cause Japan always makes that treaty
right?
Recording a video for millions in a state which is experiencing a deadly hurricane so close we could hear it
well ive been uploading for 6 years (7 in january) and finally a couple of months ago started growing more than i could dream, ive gone from getting 4-10 subs a month to 2-6 thousand. if you guys love my content enough that you subscribe and make my dream come true then i can put some effort forward and upload a video :)
It doesn't take the manpower coz they don't have equipment :)
You can have puppets as buffer states if you simply don't call them into a war.
Well you do have a good point there
@@dustinl796 although in fairness it's not perfect, if you have unpuppeted allies in a war with you I think they can call your puppets in. But I'm pretty sure puppets can't call eachother.
Yea i i think so too
Update the video. In the la resistance update, the puppeting is 99% better unless you have collaboration government
Florence SC Here thanks for the help
Glad to have helped 😁
The real question is how the fuck Austria has so many troops.
They must be drafting newborns
How about lend leasing to your puppets so they can make divisions?
Cause i kinda wana take them 😁
How can you release nations as puppets when you click “Release Nation”
If you have together for victory or death or dishonor DLC once you click release country there's a little button that pops up that has the option to release as puppet or uncheck it and it releases the country is its own Free Nation, remember it won't work if the country is still alive, for example if you somehow as Germany or two already own part of the country France you can't release the rest of France as a puppet