Call of Juarez: The Cartel - How Lazy Design Hurts Everyone - Extra Credits
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- čas přidán 3. 08. 2024
- Call of Juarez: The Cartel is an unfortunate example of what happens when designers don't question their cultural assumptions and allow hurtful misinformation to seep through gameplay mechanics. How does its gameplay potentially affect how players view minorities in the real world?
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(Original air date: October 19, 2011)
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When he swears, you know things are bad.
that was my reaction i was like oh shit
I know
Early extra credits was WAY more mean. Not that i don't like it tho
pretty much
precision F-strike inbound
To be fair, Creative Assembly's crown jewel (Rome: Total War) had a historical inaccuracy in it which led to a forum war that lasted 10 years.
The Egyptians were wearing the wrong sandals.
*LOLS SO HARD THAT I FALL TO THE FLOOR*
...wait...you're serious?
Would you kindly give us a link to the thread?
Alvin G props for the bioshock reference :D (assuming that's what it was)
Please, please, someone link us to this thread.
I dont care if that happened or not, is the perfect demonstration of everything that is wrong with the Juarez game...
I am a mexican. I knew a man who was killed in the mess 2 years ago. His name was Abraham. He was riding in the passenger seat of a car, and they wanted to kill the driver. The car was blasted with AK47 assault rifles. Abraham was a good man. He had nothing to do with the mess that got him killed. He will be missed.
A lot of people think that the whole thing is about gangs vs. gangs and drug lords killing each other. It doesn't seem that important that way. Who cares if a bunch of scumbags are dying? The thing is, violence between gangs has always been around, and nobody really cared. The real war started in 2008 when a bomb was thrown into a crowd: Not a cartel gathering, just a random crowd of people. My mother in law was one block away.
I have a hard time even using the words "drug dealers", "drug violence" or "drug cartels" here. These people are killers, torturers, rapists, kidnappers, and contract killers. Of all the horrible things they do, we identify them by talking about drugs? Really? What they are is terrorists.
Thank you for making this video. Every little bit helps.
I’m sorry for your loss
I'm so sorry about all of this. Best of luck for the future.
That's horrible, I hope you the best in your future, and if you wish to I hope for you to have a safe passage to a new place.
- a random American
Rip Abraham
I think I reached enlightenment (about this topic) this way
Kids, when anybody, *ANYBODY*, cusses on Extra Credits, it means they're *PISSED* and shit has gone *DOWN*.
(Because holy shit my jaw dropped when he cussed.)
Yup… Sh*t just got real
the whole 3 seasons Ive seen he's only cursed 2 times
hopkidokid and the two videos he did swear in were made one day after another, May 16 and 17, 2012
I've never sworn in my life, and if I was reading this script I'd swear too.
Whst other episodes did he swear
Mexican here, you got your mouth full of truth its nice when someone out of my country understands the Drug War is not just a funny name but a serious issue that affects millions of people lives, further more things just get worst with time pasing and goverment doing next to nothing, thanks for educate at least to 200,000 people that watched this video.
non Mexican here, the US's common ignorance to your countries struggle is, to use bold speech, disgraceful.
The xenophobia is so bad and illogical that I'm starting to believe people take comfort in the myth and challenging it is some challenge to their beliefs. With some people crossing the US border as refugees in everything but name, we have politicians and voters actively spouting that we need to build a wall. When a bus of kids, as in orphaned children, found itself on the US border, people were outraged that these obvious refugees were given amnesty. Not because we have a refugee crisis, no, most people are way to ignorant to make any claim like that, but because there's such an underlying misgiving for Mexicans crossing the border that fucking children are seen as a vampiric evil.
People here view crime as a moral failing and not the consequence of poverty, chaos and survival. If you try to explain the drug war as a war, they get visibly angery at the thought of even imagining criminals as combatants in a highly unconventional civil war. They cite the violence of cartels as reasons to keep out everyone and refuse to aknoledge it as a reason somebody might come over.
For us to be this ignorant to our geographical neighbor is embarrassing and to follow up this ignorance with callous disregard for human dignity is a social failing.
Best of luck to you guys. I'm probably woefully ignorant to a lot of the problem, but I hate to see any county and it's people torn by conflict.
Ignorance by itself its not a big problem as missinformation is, i have heard tons of racist or ignorant comments about Mexico situation about how we are basically criminals just by existing, most of the people going to US are just persons who live in really poor parts of Mexico trying to earn money without having to work with Narcos in some cases to be honest i kind of understand at economic level why a country needs to regulate migration my state have had a big demographic explosion due to the Drugs War but as you say some of this individuals are more of refugies than they are inmigrants.
I could go long explaining the situation but its as long as time since its not just a modern problem its one that has got bigger and bigger slowly until it blow up on the face of our last president and the current one is simply unfit for the work.
But i could resume this situation into one sentence i guess after 1 year we as country dont know who exactly killed 43 students and where their bodies are, and to a big extent there is no one actually responsable for this act although its allready known it had relation to Narcotrafic and Goverment coetion.
Its not good over here and i hope a solution comes soon, im actually trying to make games related to culture and critical thinking to impact somehow my country i never expected in such journey of technical knowledge to find this video.
(sorry for my english and grammar not my best asset)
Guillermo Tinoco Your English is fine. I'm optimistic that this situation can be fixed in the future, but right now the biggest hurdle is, as you say, misinformation, and I think a huge pare of it is the news doesn't know how to report it.
Good luck wirh your game goals.
+Jack Holmes Thanks allready working on them hopefully in 6 months i will have something to share.
+Dragonstar Well, I think there's also an idea that Mexicans are swiping up the jobs here in America. Even if that's true, I think they deserved them. We have some Hispanic workers where I work, and they are some of the best workers we got. They know the value of hard work, which is something a lot of Americans don't understand anymore. But I do hope the war will stop in Mexico, and those that are there can find peace.
"That is f***ing disgraceful."
F-bomb of the year, right there.
of the decade
OF THE MILLENIA
OF ALL TIME
Dan's only sworn twice in the 65 episodes of EC to this point. You know he's serious when he drops an F-bomb.
+Brandon Fedie what's the other time?
+Brandon Fedie What was #2?
I might need to rewatch them, because I have since forgotten which episode it was.
JaSTgamers spinningninja2 FOUND IT
Ep. 54: "Art is not the opposite of fun"
at 1:30, he says "It makes no fucking sense"
And he hasn't sworn since this episode. He really must have been pissed.
Ok, the end caught me off guard when he cursed. Seriously, I've watched most of their videos and he has not ONCE cursed until this one
He swore in his gamer video
+dinosaurfan123 I have heard only 3 times.
When you're really mad you curse, personal experience
I'm watching these from the beginning. so far he has sworn about 4 times
He swears a little more when playing Dark Souls, but, you know... it's Dark Souls.
The second someone who usually doesn't swear says one swear word out of NOWHERE, and it's even censored in the edit of the clip, you know that dude is being *SERIOUS.*
ULGROTHA I may be two years late, but THANK YOU
I've never heard him.. curse before.
α Sir Rexi Agreed!
I felt really bad when I snickered about it. I know it's serious and I'm a terrible person now, but just to hear him curse out of nowhere is positively hilarious!
Yeah. What kind of world do we live in?
+Jagar Alagoria When he cursed, I really understood the true scope of this stuation and how bad it is
Isak Knutsen Definitely put it into perspective
The game drove Dan mad enough to curse and mean it without comedic effect. How even...
Pablo Escobar use to use those words "Plata or Plomo" but they are a miss in traslations, because here in Latin-american we use Plata (that in english mean Silver) as a word for Money.
Basically Pablo Escobars ask you if you want Money or Bullit ? this mean if you wanna take a bribe or die.
English users also use silver to mean money and lead to mean bullets, especially in idioms. I think, as an idiom it translates pretty well.
+Brian Jensen People may use silver but when people think money and wealth they think gold.
Well sure, but I'm just saying changing the direct translation isn't necessary. Like, on top of the word play, the punch behind it is that they are both metals, so this is a rare case case where a direct translation of an idiom actually preserves some it's weight.
Brian Jensen while i agree i think a mix of some people saying gold or led and silver or led would have been a better approach. Because what's realistic is how slang and missuse of words is in most cultures. But i think it's a really small deal compared to some of the other bigger things pointed out. But i still agree with their and your argument about this
+Armando Montero The target audience for this game (people into "historical" first person shooters) will have heard "sliver" as money and "lead" as bullets a lot before they come into this game, as these were the norms in the early US
Wow... Daniel actually cursing really sends it home about how serious he is. It's like Out of Character Behavior.
I have to agree with him on every point made though, as a budding game designer, things like this open my eyes. I can't just ignore my responsibility to the consumer.
What these people who made this game did is unforgivable.
couldnt have said it better myself.
And you have the same name than me xD
100%
When Dan swears in an episode of Extra Creditz you know shit just got real. THAT was powerful.
i was literally about to say that when i scrolled down and saw someone beat me to it.
I am trying to think of ANY episode he has sworn in besides this one...
FreedFenrir He cursed a few times in "Learning from 'Other M'", but it wasn't out of rage, as shown here.
like
It makes me sad that you, even indirectly, associated sloths with this crap pile of a game. Sloths are majestic (if kinda dumb) animals and deserve better.
Our sloth overlords will come to power. It may take decades, but our fate is inevitable. Surrender our planet to them now before the massacre of our people happens.
+Just Moved In oh
Sloth as in the trait, not the animal. But even then, to make something so vile takes more than laziness.
That's why I said "indirectly."
to be fair the trait of sloth was around way, way before the animal was even discovered, so it's not fair to blame these guys for the explorer's horrible naming sense; sloths aren't lazy, they're efficient.
At this point, I think we can scratch the "Accidental" in front of Indoctrination.
This is the second time I, as a fan of this show, have ever heard Dan swear. That shows how big this is.
When was the other one? I don't think I have seen that episode.
Actually, I don't remember which episode. If I remember I'll let you know.
just commenting in case you remember, i want to know too.
Thanks for that. I can't remember what it was, but I think there was something in either S7 or S11 where he swore as well.
that works
You label this the heaviest Extra Credits episode - I think that it's one of the _greatest_ Extra Credits episodes. Far too often, real-life issues are overlooked, as can clearly be seen from this game. However, to see popular spreading of the truth can only be encouraging. Thank you so much.
5:50 at first I was like: what do you mean that's not the worst part of the level that's messed up. Then I was answered.
This is the kind of thing that... I can't even comprehend this. Human trafficking is a huge issue. More slaves exist in the world today than during the trans-Atlantic slave trade, and trying to say America, one of the largest countries in the world, can't have anything to do with that is... It's pure ignorance. 85% of prostitutes in America are in their profession because of trafficking, and that's being REALLY generous.
There is no way a $32 billion (estimated) industry is not in the USA. This kind of misinformation is vile on a whole new level. It's what breeds ignorance and hate towards people on subjects that on their own should disgust people.
I'm barely typing coherently I'm so angry. I know real world victims, people trafficked within their home city. The concept that American trafficking victims only exist outside of the states is... Is downright wrong and disrespectful.
The racial issues compounded on top of this just turns my stomach.
When you say it's 10 times as many US soldier who died in iraq..... but only a third of iraqi civilians.... I suddely lost a lot of focus to realise how insane that sounded.
+orhblin
It's sad.
It's been years, yet I still return to watch these couple of episodes every once and awhile. They're too powerful to forget.
Apparently, things are getting better for the city of Juarez. People trust their police some, crimes are being reported and investigated, and it doesn't have one of the highest worldwide murder rates per capita anymore.
So, yeah, it still sucks, but it sucks slightly less. Baby steps, I guess?
Yay...
I can't get too excited.
well as a Mexican myself, ive heard people talking about Juarez less in the last few years, that could mean its getting better, but ive been hearing a lot more from other parts in the rest of the country, heck even in my tiny city where nothing used to happen now its normal to hear random gunshots once in a while. So maybe its better cause the rest is worse by comparison.
it is physically and emotionally painful for me to ever read the phrase "it's normal to hear random gunshots once in a while." when referring to an urban setting. that is NEVER going to be ok with me. i hope that somehow this war and the damage it is doing comes to a swift end so that people can no longer live with that fear.
Heh, looking at this now, after Dead Island and Dead Island Riptide has come out, that company that made Call of Juarez has not only learned nothing, but has since screwed up depicting medicines and disease in a similar way.
While it's not nearly as dire as the Mexican drug wars, I was similarly frustrated and exasperated with how WRONG the Dead Island games describe kuru and other prion-based brain diseases, but about three-quarters through the game, they explained how the Banoi variant of kuru worked in a way similar to putting a pot over your head and banging on it.
At this point, it feels like Techland is proud to have not done their research. (And I know looking up the Mexican drug wars, southern Pacific islander cultures, and prions should be just as easy in Poland as it is anywhere else in the developed world.) I have seen people make creative works and proudly proclaim to have not checked their facts because they fear looking like nerds with a "Who cares!?" attitude. It's the nerd hierarchy here: Video game nerds are higher up on the ladder than academic nerds, after all.
I'm going to guess the people who made Call of Juarez have been shown this video repeatedly but have too much pride to watch it, considering the Dead Island games' baffling level of inaccuracy.
To be fair in the case of dead island, you really can't make a zombie disease without fudging a bunch of facts.
stave exept that you can, we already have a fungus that infects insects and takes control over them. So just copying it is really easy and you can search zombie fungus on google in any part of the world that has acces to it.
I mean, Last of Us did it. Their Cordyceps fungi is based on a real life fungi that takes control of ants. Not to mention there is still a range of chemicals, viruses, and bioagents that can cause people to go berserk.
Techland sucks, I remember one time when I went to the job fairs and they were looking for trainees, I asked them what money do they pay for internship. The lady proudly affirmed me that I DON'T HAVE TO PAY ANYTHING FOR WORKING FOR THEM. Their whole policy seems to be nuts, no wonder they make so many stupid mistakes.
I remember going to a panel at Comic Con panel on Dead Rising, supposedly on the scientific plausibility of zombies. I was excited going into it: Sci fi geek out and video games? I'm in heaven! But it was clear the studio guys didn't care about the science at all, they just wanted to show off their cool waterlogged and spitter monsters. The science experts had no clue what to do. I felt so bad for them.
Man, even with the heaviest of topics you guys just seem to say just the right things. You guys handle things in a very respectable manner. I just want you to know how much you guys make a difference in the world, and how much you guys are effecting the world in the best of ways. Thank you.
***** I can't think of a useful reply so I'll just say this :
The pony of Time?
Yes. The Pony of Time. You'll never see him but he's always there.
*****
Now how does a pony hold an Ocarina?
with magic
Er, he was talking about violence toward DISEMPOWERED women. Strippers, generally, are blur in a great place in their lives and often can't do a lot against physical violence toward them. They are disempowered, and hurting someone that vulnerable is just an awful ring to do.
Techland realized their mistake, and made Call Of Juarez Gunslinger, the game is awesome during shootouts, and the story is quite touching as we follow the story of "Silas Greaves" and his quest to seek revenge from someone i didn't expect, it's sadly underrated :/
The moment you sweared to state a point had a extremely powerful effect on me.
Like whoa me too.
Thank you I am Mexican and I heard about this game and I was horrified
Unanimous None yo business heck I didn't Even hear it
Unanimous none “I” business?
"And that is f*bleep* disgraceful."
Me : " OH SHIT NOW IT'S GETTING REAL "
Jesus, I have family that's affected by this and I never knew that's why Call of Juarez The Cartel was getting so much hate. I thought it was just some bad game and never bothered. Damn that's awful.
Seriously. I actually pirated this game and played for a couple hours and thought it was unimaginitive and lackluster at best. I couldn't even force myself to play throught this pile of shit. And yet, that appears that it's not even their worst sin. Watching this episode made my blood boil.
I almost shit my pants when you cussed.
I keep rewatching this video, and I always feel like cheering at that line.
I did
It is this kind of discussion that encourages me not to lose my faith in humanity. Thanks for this.
+HellMasterRod Why would a single video with a different opinion make you lose faith it humanity?
+Insanity Luc I don't think he was saying that. To me, it came across more like the accumulated weight of all the shit that goes on these leads him to lose his faith in humanity, and then something like this comes along and persuades him to hold onto it a little longer.
Currently on an Extra Credits binge. This episode comes up: oh, this is the one where he swears.
I think you guys did a good job with this topic just based on the comments alone. The lack of people raging against this in the comments is proof enough of that for me that it's not just me- you really did present this well.
And I also hope this is the heaviest topic you have to handle.
+BologneyT I wouldn't call it 'raging', why would I rage? I am sitting behind a screen reading some text. I would rather call it critizising and people should be free to do so, if a topic is not very well explained or has a lack of sources.
Oh certainly, criticism must be encouraged. And generally audiences on Extra Credits videos do a good job criticizing them in a civil manner. However the previous video on propaganda really felt like people were being a bit hyperbolic on both sides. Honestly, both sides had very good points, but neither were willing to pay attention to that with a few exceptions.
Also, I think the reason why this video has less arguments is because he really took the time to explain his argument, providing strong evidence to support his cases and also didn't go hyperbolic (or explained why when he did).
This is the second time I've heard him say fuck ever. You know its getting serious.
You know I've always wanted to buy this game because I thought it was like a cool cowboy game. But something told me to not buy it no matter how many times I saw it go on sale. Glad I never did.
GokuPilgrim try the other games in the series, like gunslinger, it's a fun western where you kill famous outlaws.
That's exactly what i thought. I remember this game coming out when i got into Red Dead Redemption. I'm not a big gamer, i just buy what looks interesting (and what is in the bargain bin). I always saw it in the bargain bin, and almost bought that one. Then i saw a game called Rock Revolution, a knock off Guitar Hero type game with a wicked set list. So glad i didn't buy Call of Jaurez. But questioning my Purchase of Rock Revolution, it has songs i like, but they are all covers (GH2 style) and not all that good...
Disgusting. I have never known Dan to swear in an Extra Credits episode before this one. That hit me harder than any other reviewer that talked about this game. I knew this show was intelligent, but this was one of the best.
Trustworthy Tim I completely agree
Read a story last night about a woman shooting her Uber driver because they passed a sign for ‘Jaurez’ and she shot him because she feared she was being kidnapped. Immediately thought of this episode.
This is honestly the first time I herd Mexico is in a proper war. And I listen to the news fairly regually.
Sure I hear about a lot of deaths and the high rate of homicide. But it's always played off as something normal for that area and very little is put forward about why it's like that in Mexico.
update: it's been getting worse every day, we literally broke the daily death count "record" twice just last week, jesus those numbers in the video seem hopeful compared to now
Wow guys... Simply wow... The use of the F word was majestic. I think this was the most heavy Extra Credits episode I have ever seen.
i do think the drug war could make for an amazing game though.
+Jordan Shank Yep, Sicario the Game would be good.
+Jordan Shank
Yeah that game would be pretty good, if done correctly
Wait a minute Jordan SHANK, teslasSHARK, and omer SHAIK...you all have the same last name except for the 4th letter...0_0
Ninja Lemur wow youre obsrevant lol
omer shaik
Thank you!
Maybe something Oregon Trail style, where you have to play as the family patriarch/matriarch and have get your family to the USA and then get everyone either amnesty or citizenship without getting killed and/or separated.
I'm a El Pasoan, and thus very close to Juarez Mexico and and I have to deal with this junk. It's so sad what's going on, especially as a Mexican who grew up around other Mexicans. It's not only sad, but scary. To think that even in your safe Texas home, you could be shot, or have your kids sold drugs, or see women and girls just like your wives and daughters be exploited. It's a horrible thing, it really is.
How does Techland keep get funding after time and time again making really shitty games?
*****
That was by Techland? o.o that's surprising. With that and their up coming mirror's edge zombie game, Dying Light, or whatever its called, maybe they can salvage their reputation.
Actually, the older Call of Juarez games were really good, they were Mexian Western shooters that had nothing to do with anything in that last poor excuse for a game.
They're not that bad. They made all of the CoJ and the Dead Island games. It's just that this game makes them seem like a completely incompetent developer.
tech-land is awsome yes this game was a fucking shitshow and i burned my copy of the game in my fireplace but dead island, the other COJ. was great they like all other studious publishers ect make the shitty game but tech-land as a whole is not bad its just the people who was doing the research for the game and the level designers its their fault
7:08 Ho boy you know he’s mad. That is some passion coming through
A little scary how on the nose this episode was when taking into account the current American political skullduggery.
I miss the episodes like this. I miss Dan.
What a different day and age this was, that you could speak on your convictions plain as day to be better people, to hold aspirations to be ethical and moral, to want things other than the largest return on money possible when discussing game design. Eight years ago. Good god, watching this made my heart ache. Back when I was younger, dumber, and thought the world would only get better.
"Back when I was younger, dumber, and thought the world would only get better."
truer worlds have never been said
I cannot believe that this controversial, propaganda, misinformative (the list goes on) game was made AND sold, yet Six Days in Fellujah was deemed too disrespectful to be created due to the soldiers lost in this battle (who themselves wanted this game to be made for educational and informative purposes) ! I am flabbergasted.
Wait a second! Mexico has been in a war for 10+ years? I'm a high-school student in midwest USA. Why i'm just now hearing about it?
Matt Cyr yes it's been a very very bad war but you do not hear about it because the mass american public doesn't care about it, it's a massive slug war between two sides that shows with the same story. People die and there is no end in sight. The media realized this is boring information for the mass public so the media doesn't report it. No money, no information. They would rather race bait the latest thing, that gets money going and it practically writes it's own stories for you. It interests the public.
Think Chiraq but on a national scale.
Answered your own question there amigo
I live even further up north, in Canada, so I had even less of a clue
5 Years later, war is still going, I live in Juarez actually, it's on the frontier with El Paso, we have a wall made in the memory of women who have died, their bodies where found there, literally behind my house
Thank you for making this episode. I tend to bury my head in the sand when it comes to FPS games and controversy, and this one would've passed me by. This draws the line between a badly designed/tasteless game and a truly terrible one, and from here on I will try to be a more aware consumer because of it. Keep up the amazing work guys.
You have to overlook a lot of racism in an industry where FPS targets are always brown, narrow eyed, or covered in Cyrillic, but inciting gang violence by shooting up a poor suburb really takes it too far.
You have a point, but there is a line between geografical accuracy and racism, The former you might look over, but the ladder is clear, especially in Call of Juarez
I'm from Juárez and thankfully things have calmed down quite a bit now.
you know he's serious when he swears
Techland is, to my knowledge, a Polish team. Unfortunately, much of our nation is still racist and prejudiced. They should have known that handling topics foreign to them would require more, not less, research and they have failed their entire global audience (not just the people playing their game, but the people affected by those who have had experience with the game, and the people affected by those people, etc.) as a result.
That precision F-strike. Holy crap.
Since this game came out I refused to acknowledge it existed, I was quite certain the story was not going to show how complex the war is. Turns out I was right.
I was really hoping I was wrong.
And yet it was a fun game.
Yeah, made me laugh how ridiculous it is sometimes especially the npc dancing was really funny
How about we just go back and review The Geneva Convention, and then make a game that try's to follow those rules? Anyone? No?
Sonata Dusk Wow, when did you become the sarcastic one? XD Doesn't matter, I agree. :)
Sonata Dusk So cute AND sarcastic then? I think I'm in love! *manly swoon*
Sonata Dusk ....Damn it.... not again! XD
Sonata Dusk Curse you and your disarming charm!! *shakes fist*
Hex Op great ideal! I will get on it
I remember when this came out, all my gamer friends wre ranting for hours about the pure, inconcievable, undiluted *wrong * of this game. However, each time I asked them about details they would just..give me that odd look and clamp down. It was only several weeks after its release one of them took pity on me and summed it up as, "You basically go around shooting prostitutes." Yeah, I know, about as accurate as the game.
And wow, when Dan dropped the F-bomb, I actually skipped back to make sure I heard correctly.
Call of Jaurez: The Cartel. COMING SOON: The Mexican Wall of Trump DLC
When he swears you know things are about to go down
As another mexican, I'd like to thank you for how you adress this video. This is a huge problem in media that's not often discussed. Altought I consider that lazy writting can be a reason, I'm more biased towards the economic profit motivations. Selling hate and miss information (just like sex) can be quite profitable while endoctrinating at the same time.
i know i am waaaay to late for this but, as a native spanish speaker, ´´plata`` could mean silver OR money.
But in that context, it's more accurate and logical to translate both as metals, besides, silver has a history of being used as money, that's the reason why it means both.
Gran Gurbo In reality it talks about money(plata) or bullets(plomo), I haven't researched this very much, but being mexican, I totally get what they are refering to just by hearing it so... gold could be suitable in context, but I think cash or something similar could convey the most accurate meaning.
I'm a native spanish speaker too, just talking in english out of respect for others that may read this xD
In the time the phrase was created, most coins were made of silver, so both meanings were the same. So yes, it means money, but translating it that way it loses the play on words using both metals.
Gran Gurbo its weird how one word could mean so many things right?
but i would go with ´´money or bullets`` because it has a better meaning, aaand thats what an actual mexicans says it is, so i trust him more with this than anyone else here
Gran Gurbo
plata in south america is a slang for money, most of the times it's used that way, so yeah the phrase is money or lead, and it goes with the philosophy of drug lords of get rich or die trying, there's a phrase in mexico used by cartel members that says "prefiero morir joven y rico, que viejo y jodido" that can translate to "i'll rather die young and rich, than old and poor" the mindset does tell me they refer to money instead of silver in a literal sense
This is a prime example of how swearing can be super effective, even when it's censored. By purposefully keeping the language clean everywhere else, it draws your attention to the few times he actually does go there. It's like that really quiet kid at school telling the bully to "F*** off!" without warning, it naturally makes you sit up and pay attention. And that particular F-bomb was 100% justified. Good on you Dan!
I'm going to make a point about this episode even though its super old and nobody gives a damn. Specifically, about the "Gold or lead" mistake caused by "lack of effort". To me, It actually sounds like not a lack of effort, but a willful change on the part of the designers because they believe gamers are fucking idiots. Which... isn't any better, but I still feel like this point should be acknowledged. 'silver' has a connotation of second-place and valuable, but not as valuable as gold, wheras gold has a connotation of wealth and having a ton of money. So they might have thought gamers were dumb enough to be confused by 'silver' having a money connotation and so used 'gold' to achieve the same effect the original phrase had.
Pause at 5:42.
"Hooker: [the sound of getting punched]"
...Fuck.
talk about lazy design. In the cod series, some events take place in Pakistan. the following are languages spoken in Pakistan: Urdu Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashto, Balochi, Saraiki, Hindko, Brahui. It took me 30 seconds to find this. So, why the hell do all the player's "enemies" still speak arabic? Especially since there isn't a single setting in the game where arabic is actual spoken in the real world? the difference between arabic and these languages is as large as the difference between spanish and norwegian.
0:48 best line in the entire video
"eeh"
The same line could be used to describe so much in the video game world, such perfection in simplicity.
I am a pretty new fan of you guys' show, and I have been jumping around and watching many many of your episodes. Many times I have spent days giddily exploring exciting concepts you have talked about, things like gamification and the possibilities for the future, or run off to do research and angrily rant to my wife and friends about injustices you brought light too even when it was old (such as this)
but nothing has hit as hard as this episode, nothing.
the seething anger in your voice, the poetic eloquent rage portrayed in the words backed up by the simple art of your lone angry avatar at his pedestal
And when you were bleeped it hit me like a ton of bricks.
I have watched many many many of your episodes over the recent weeks shuffled from old and new, and this by far is the heaviest.
I had to sit for a few minutes choking back tears, im still shaking while writing this. I have not had that feeling of a child being angrily scalded in so long i had almost forgotten.
You all made your point about the horrors and inaccuracies of this game crystal clear, if only people could have the experience I just had listening to this when you posted it ( or heck even now) I feel like there would be an uprising of support to help solve some of the issues (at least what we can do, such as hunt down what scum are paying well enough to incentivize so much human trafficking)
If art is the causing of emotional response in someone, then on this episode more than any other i have so far witnessed you three came together in a masterwork of artistic passion on this issue, and struck and emotional chord untouched in ages.
Well done, you have my deepest respect and awe
Silver and lead is drugs. Gold and lead is alchemy. It’s ok, drugs and alchemy are often confused. /s
I'm a Mexican citizen. I've been following your work for a long time now. I just want to thank you for speaking out this kind of problems. I also think of the human trafficking as the most despicable act a human being can do. And I don't mean to be hater against people who consume drugs in the US. But I wish everyone who pays for a few grams of weed to know it also costs the life of hundreds of foreigners.
It's 2022 and Call of Duty proper decided to make their campaign partially about the drug war in Mexico. I don’t know if they were aware of Juarez but they did a much better job in portraying the war. The odd equilibrium being kept, how immigration plays a role, the way communities are affected, and best of all we get a Mexican Special Forces Colonel as one of the good guys as well as the player character. And the cherry on top, they hired Banda MS to make a ballad for Task Force 141. Dude, it’s epic and while it could be better it’s certainly a step in the right direction.
You guys got so much more respect from me for doing this episode thanks for talking about the touchy subjects and not being afraid to call people out on their crap I as gamer and as student thank you
I love the way Extra Credits perceives their obligation as media producers. They see it as obligatory to give good, accurate, sited information instead of money mongering. I'm not being sarcastic. It's a idealistic view for sure but their habit of practicing what they preach delights me. They view misinformation in the media as a corruption. I like that. I'd like to see more outlets like Extra Credit do well.
I'd say it's more disgraceful that the person was too stupid/lazy/ignorant to verify the point of view in a work of fiction. How long does it take to Google something? I can't count the number of articles I've seen shared on social media that would have never been shared had the person taken a second to look up the veracity of the article. The whole situation is just pathetic.
My opinion: You cannot deliver a p.o.s. game on THIS scale without intending to do so.
you know that the theme is really REALLY bad if he says a swear word
I'm really, really glad that they stopped putting pictures of spiders in these videos...
Interesting how relevant this still is, two years later in 2014.
those early extra credits videos become more relevant by the second to the point that its scary.
It's not the racism in the game that really gets me. It's the racism by commenters.
Good job constructing a comment that either side of the argument will think they agree with.
Fred Frey I would think my stance would be clear by the initial acknowledgement of the racism in the game. But since there are enough people ignorant enough to equate racism against whites as a problem in equal course with the reverse, I will clarify myself:
The game is bad enough. Worse yet are the white supremacist and xenophobic attitudes being expressed by the commenters here.
>It's not the racism in the game that really gets me. It's the racism by commenters.
It always astounds me that Gamers come out in droves to defend undefensable racism, misogyny, jingoism with fallacies out the ass when they perceive "injustice" of actually criticizing the content of a video game by "SJWs".
When the fuck did Gamers all suddenly become Stormfronters?
Bingeing the seasons of EC has really engaged me in critically examining my choices as a consumer in today's gaming industry; episodes like this, however, really give me hope as a person, not just a gamer, that there are individuals willing to recognize ignorance and fight against it. I appreciate the tactful way this was phrased and handled, even with personal opinions worked in, because it was, overall, a very effective presentation.
Thank you, EC!
Wow, this is a heavy subject. You did well on putting it across, :-)
Damn, as you said Dan, that was heavy. I love Dan's anger in this video, you can hear it in every syllable and it only builds as the video goes on. Great work as always.
I genuinely wish you hadn't censored the swear word at the end. The emphasis it adds is fantastic. Just rewatching this episode because it's so well done, long time watcher. Keep up the great work guys!
And as if the horrific things that this video talks about weren't bad enough, on a sheer innocuous gaming level, this game sucks liquid donkey butter.
Hearing green man angry means it’s serious
I even commented on the swearing but what he says after that is just so heartfelt.
Several years later, I STILL get shocked when Dan drops The F-Bomb.
Holy hell Daniel swore. That made me replay to make sure I heard it right.
And who published this horror? Who looked upon this mess of bigoted garbage and thought "Eh, good enough to sell."?
Ubisoft.
Kinda puts the rest of their tone-deaf, "we didn't mean to be offensive", "our games don't have political perspectives" garbage in a rather unbecoming light, doesn't it? Almost as if they've been this way for quite some time.
Dear god I thought it was just a half-assed spinoff
Wow, just wow.... This is probably one of the most potent, informative, pop culture videos(especially in gaming) I've ever stumbled across. This may be an old video and an even more obscure game but it is an incredibly important topic and you guys did an amazing job covering a topic most people would rather just ignore. Keep up the great work!
And game theory says it's the smartest show in gaming...
Game Theory has really gone down hill
show? what show?
Funny thing is that Game Theory got its inspiration FROM Extra Credits. Game Theory isn't a ripoff, it's a different type of show, but I totally agree in saying that Game Theory isn't as smart of a show. Or enjoyable, for that matter.
Can you elaborate what you mean?
I CANT STOP WATCHING THIS CHANNEL
I think you need to do more "heavy" episodes like this. very informative and your passion and disgust came through in a way that was undeniable. good job.
fue un episodio increible,admiro todo el esfuerzo que hacen en cada uno de los temas que deciden hablar y este fue de los mas fuertes que he visto, faltan personas como ustedes aqui en México que sepa ver los videojuegos de esa forma y hablarlo con las miles de personas que jugamos, intentaré ser una de esas personas, de nuevo gracias!!
was an amazing episode, I admire all the efforts made in each of the issues that decide to talk and this was one of the strongest I've seen, people like you are necessary here in Mexico who can see video games like you and talk to the thousands of people who play here,I'm trying to be one of those people, thanks again extra credits!
I rarely do this, but 65 people either need to explain their choice to click the dislike button or back off.
Hey hey Extra Credits I have watched a good few of your episodes now and I would like to say that you guys are inspiring and thought provoking. Why cant they show stuff like this on TV? Many Kudos and a Subscription for more of your great content. :)
some dude got shot in the head on the bus near my house and everyone brushed it off in a day I cant see a beter example of how bad things are over here
This was an amazing video. It really taught me something and made me think, and it's very clear that this is a subject that you guys care about. Well done. Seriously, all of my props for this. I've watched a bunch of your videos, but this is the one that defines you for me. This is the one that makes me really respect you.
If you guys have something going on and need a donation, I'd absolutely do that for you.