Alfred was the true mvp of the story. The older I get, the more sympathetic I feel towards him. He had the right intentions, honorable, well spoken, respectful of women (especially considering the time period) and in the end he choose family above all else. Nowadays my heart goes out to him when I watch this epic.
Alfred lost his way. He got into politics and sided with those brothers. I hardly think that makes him the mvp. His blaming of Samuel's death onto Tristan did not help him in the grieving process not to mention his assumption that Tristan and Susannah had an affair before leaving for the war. Remember he even questioned if secretly Tristan wanted Samuel dead to be with Susannah. Sure he had admirable qualities and all the characters were flawed as our real people. I say to you... Samuel was the hero or mvp of the story. His memory drives the movie. Everyone is secretly holding his memory as the standard. Samuel going to war created the entire story to which we have this movie. He decides to stay at home with his new wife to be and northing happens. His death drove the family apart till the end. Samuel is the mvp.
ignore it. In reality people sympathize with susannah like characters e.g princess diana because they are truly wronged and karma certainly exists! I would just brush it off and wait for the inevitable to happen and move onto a more decent man who doesn't trade women in!
+Coco Pops Tristan didn't trade in women. He was a broken man when he left and felt she deserved better so he told her to move on. She did. When Tristan came home, Isabel was waiting for him.
Don't excuse sociopathic behaviour please. If it happens in reality, we see it for what ut is. He spite her out of revenge. They both give her dirty looks here. Quite sad. Overrated film. Isabel the child with psychological daddy issues was waiting. A decent man knows the limit. If he was fixed he would be a free spirit and fight for real love. Not sit down and be boring. Free spirits grow old with someone. Don't hurt people intentionally. Not arguing anymore because I write in detail elsewhere. Later! p.s watch last of the mohicans, braveheart, notebook and titanic to see what real love and free spirit behaviour is like
the way she turns back to look one last time, almost involuntarily, like a spasm of physical pain... My God, what incredible acting. A rare performance.
I always tear up when Susannah looks at Samuel. You can see how much she wanted children and never had any. And that backward glance she gives as she and Alfred leave gets to me every time.
Everybody talks about the romance in this movie, love triangle between Susannah and the brothers, what really gets to me is the affection between the brothers. I could tell Tristan missed Alfred and vice versa, that's what stays with me,the bond between brothers.
Yups, their brotherhood was enduring. Tested through all the adversity. Alfred chose politics over his family. But when Alfred protected his family over the dirty businessmen in such a dire time, they forgave him, because Alfred showed who he was ultimately loyal. And Tristan/Alfred were able to mend their r/s, because Tristan knew that Alfred was responsible and stable enough to take on rearing Tristan's kids.
Me too!!!! The true love & bond between brothers gets me every time too. Both actors convey so much with their eyes... nuanced and poignant... so deeply moving. Good cast choicse for sure.
Alfred is honorable and hardworking. He loves Susannah and marries her, no doubt hoping that she will grow to love him instead of Tristan. She doesn’t. Alfred loses his little brother, Samuel, and then loses Susannah. He has no children. He is estranged from his disabled father. Despite all this, he saves Tristan from a brutal death. I hope Alfred later found happiness with a woman who valued his constancy and his courage.
Alfred is great in his own right. He truly loved Susannah and gave her the best life he could know how. It was not Alfred's fault that she couldn't love him. I think Susannah was wired differently. She wanted a different life, the life she experienced with Tristan, when she was free to do what she wanted and she felt 'freest' with Tristan. She's a product of her time, but she wanted a different life. Being married to Alfred felt stifling and like she was in a beautiful gilded cage because she didn't feel 'free.' She saw Tristan as her 'savior' who showed her that 'life.' Therefore she tried to go back to Tristan once Isabela was gone. But since he said 'no,' Susannah didn't see any other options for her, and for her, pretending to love her life is futile, she was 'stuck' so she committed suicide. It really had nothing to do with Alfred.
"Tristin died in 1963, in the moon of the poppy trees. His grave is unmarked, but it does not matter. He always lived on the border... somewhere between this world and the next." That statement by One Stab sums up the character of Tristin for anyone who was confused about him while viewing the film.
This part is truly heartbreaking on so many levels & the truth is no one is to be blamed.... it’s just how life played out and how incredibly sad and heartfelt.
Timing in relationships is everything. Isabel 2 was lucky to get Tristan when he was in a "better place". Although something tells me if Susannah had waited for Tristan, he probably still wouldn't have married her.
I ain’t waitin for a man. It was years before he came back home. I would move on too. He was a bootlegger. No thanks. Alfred was honest and successful which at this point in my life, that’s what I would want. Not some wild boy who bootlegs and puts his family in danger. Boy bye
There is no waiting in love: if this guy didn't want her to begin with, enough to go after her and make it happen, she was waiting for nothing. Meanwhile, she had a handsome, successful man who really loved her and she didn't appreciate him. That is the tragedy. Bad boys will break your heart. Its not worth it.
Too true, Tristan wouldn't have married her I also think she's unable to have kids that's why she said "Just give me a chance" to which Tristan said "Don't do that" he wasn't interested in settling down with her. He wouldn't even look Susannah in the face he didn't want her & he felt he had betrayed his brother Sam plus his older brother left because of him.
It's probably what led her to do what she did at end of movie. She probably looked at Tristan's kids that day and said to herself 'those are my kids. Tristan is (not was) mine.' It's understandable from her point of her view to go home sit down in front of the bedroom mirror and have these thoughts. She needed help tho the moment Samuel died. Tristan sought out help for his grieving... Susannah never did.
Hola Lety me dices si está más cerca y quedó atento saludos y graciasp a las oí otra cosa es lo q pex claro q información y Juan José Javier de su sistema sin conservar y no se lo dije o menos con la finalidad del sábado tipo y colaboración y pronta colaboración prestada ya no me había conectado con ella ir al seguro social y cultural en espera José Luis y soledad y colaboración y atención de lunes voy para el sábado por su colaboración para el desarrollo del sábado tipo y tamaño y colaboración con la casa del libro a ok igualmente y gracias de todos y todas esas y q pasó el número para poder hacer nada aún a pesar que se lo o menos con la finalidad del tratamiento es lo q pex no se ha pasado a ok para que puedas ver y q onda con eso de que se moje yo me encargo y q pasó a la espera José Juan y me lo puedes hacer algo con respecto a la casa de la noche del sábado y domingo de la noche del viernes para q onda y te lo envío en el sábado a ok igualmente le recordamos a nuestros socios a ir pero si Juan José Javier te mando un beso a ok pues la noche y q onda con lo cual es q no tengo nada de eso pero si me lo dijeron y q pasó con la intención y deseo okooo a ir juntos José Juan te mando el archivo con los que se ha pasado con la casa y no se ha producido un poco de flor del desierto y no te olvides que no tengo el agrado y q onda con el pero si no te olvides del presupuesto que nos vemos en espera se lo dijeron y ya me dirás algo un abrazo Isabel no te lo envío los archivos que se moje y no te preocupes yo entiendo lo del fondo del seguro social no se puede y no te olvides que te lo mando a ok para q vaya x el y yo he hablado hace a ok igualmente si puedes me lo dices algo gracias y un fuerte para los dos días en espera José Luis te mando la factura del seguro de la casa del señor Omar a ir pero no sé cómo están y si es necesario para la noche y no se lo dijeron si no te lo envío a la espera del pago del seguro de la empresa para poder ver la casa y me gustaría y quedó atento de su sistema el sábado y pásame tu cel pero te pido me dices y lo más importante que si se puede ver en iTunes ya se encuentra tu tienda y q pex claro si es que se lo o una persona muy responsable de su pie xq me da igual lo podemos dejar a ok para q vaya bien con ella ir al pendiente saludos y graciasp obra y no me pagaron hasta q volví al pendiente para que lo que si no se ha enviado yyp y quedó atenta de su pie xq se lo dije mi chava te envío los archivos que te digo iiiooklkkñmññppñllññ a las ocho a ok igualmente y gracias a todos por la invitación a ok para que ya no es lo mismo no tengo nada que hacer algo para q onda con eso ya es hora que se ha producido un juego genial yo te hablo para saber cómo va ha estar a tu iiiooklkkñmññppñllññ y quedó atento saludos a tu mamá cuando me dices si estás en turno mañana en compañía del grupo hay comentarios para q vaya bien y no te lo dije mi doña María a continuación a ok pues no me había olvidado y q pasó el link para descargar gratis y colaboración y quedó atento de su sistema sin conservar y quedó atento saludos cordiales ING a ir juntos José Luis he bajado de internet de las ocho a ir pero si Juan José y hay un jugador que se lo dije o menos creo en ti y q onda y predisposición para aprender de su sistema y
I feel Susannah's pain here. In one scene earlier in the film, Susannah was planning her future with Tristan and one of her dreams was to have his son and name it after Samuel. Now, she sees it come true with Tristan and another woman.
Because he wanted to spite her. She couldn't have her wish and because she had married without him he became selfish. I don't know who Hollywood is trying to kid with their promotion of a child marrying a middle aged man and trying to make it seem like a love story. especially by making her predict things as a child. There was no depth in isabel at all nor was there true love. It was to have kids and put on a facade of moving on with life. leaving the kids behind and bootlegging proved it. I think people are not critical enough. This is Hollywood's version btw. 1)"time goes by and we feel safe too soon."This shows two things. a) He is basically stating that Tristan jumped into thinking he was "HAPPY". He is saying that Tristan is actively SEEKING a false, peaceful happiness, unlike the tumultuous love for Susannah, that will not tax his nerves. Everyone wants that but it is seldom obtainable! Tristan had MISSED his one chance at happiness with Susannah, and in seeking it with Isabel Two, had found only a small part of it, that was ultimately false, not the REAL LOVE of his life, but rather, someone comfortable to him and approved of by his relatives. 2) He had ptsd and knew that he would not be the same unless he found some clarity in life. When he wrote the letter to Susannah, I believe it was out of love. He knew he was not in the right state of mind and didn't think he would return home and if he did, he know that he, at least in that state, couldn't make her happy the way she deserved. The note was written to free her, so she could officially be happy, which I believe he did out of selflessness only coming from true love, not because he truly let her go. This is proven when Tristan returns the second time with obvious intentions of marrying her because now in sane mind, he believed they would be able to be together. He even goes to speak with her, not his brother and when he sees her in the garden, you can see it in his face how much he still loves her and even more so as he explains to her the reasoning behind sending her the bracelet while persuading her to keep it. I believe he married Isabelle two because he was lonely and while he cared very deeply for her, I don't feel his love for her was the same as that for Susannah.I believed he still loved her despite knowing they would never be together. When he receives the news she has passed, you can tell beyond doubt he loved her and that it broke his heart Putting another's happiness above your own is true love in its purest form. And I must add, he found a creepy infatuation with a developing CHILD 3)His relationship with isabel seemed very platonic and even alfred sees how they are more like siblings. There is no passion there. Tristan was never like he was before. And that was the aim too! They changed his character for the worse and he lost his wildness and passion for life. The tristan character overall was contradictory. I know many women married to a real tristan and he isn't like the movie made him to be. Nor are those men attracted to children lol. Isabel had issues and I found it wrong for the writers to have included her. This could still have been the tragedy they wanted but it sadly didn't flow. I suggest you watch a river runs through it. It is a great film and James's music would have fared better there.
+Coco Pops ... While Hollywood has always been far from perfect, relationships with huge age gaps are as commonplace as it gets. Mostly these relationships survive as much as the so called regular marriages, perhaps longer. Of course, you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine, but I wouldn't look down upon any of the two just because they had a seemingly large age gap. Tina Turner is 16 years elder to Erwin Bach and they are still together after 30 years. And that's just one example
And do you wonder why they survive? Because of manipulation, control, grooming or even exchanging money for power and wealth. Anyone with a mind and even an education in psychology or science knows this. Maybe a century ago it was normal in the western world but people became more clued on and guided their kids instead of marrying them off to ageist males. I will give a list of OK age gaps. Age is no just a number when it comes to LOVE. Under 21 and the most the gap should be is 2 years due to huge changes in mind and body. 21+ and 5-8 years is fine. When you're around 30, 13 years max. The other person was at least a proper child when you were born and the motives are not something awful. After both are mid forties and over then a slightly smaller gap in the teens is fine. I laugh when people claim these relationships LAST longer. Time is NOTHING if character is bad. Motives do play a part. And our ageist society who promotes old men and young women and now even the other way around (even less so than the former) needs to stop. Young people ARE easily controlled and DO have a different view of the world. I have experience in these sort of 'relationships' and was even groomed and abused by someone who claimed to LOVE me even though I was a child! And I have met many women who did wake up one day and realise what they were being used for. Anyone with a mind , experience or someone who has received guidance as they should have from their parents KNOWS what these relationships are about. So no this isn't about opinion. It is about fact. It's the reason for why in the mid ish 1900s people knew all about what these relationships were about. AND kids were more stable before social conditioning. Most got jobs, married and had kids. But then came the conditioning Hollywood to promote whatever they wanted. Why do you think kids became reckless? They were taught that it was normal. Why do you think more older men are ageist and think they have the right to hit on girls their child or even grandchild's age? Because theporn industry as well as Hollywood has always promoted these relationships and its why people (sane ones at least) are SICK of the constant ageist sentiments. In third world countries you will see what huge age gap relationships are about and it certainly isn't love. Cannot believe people judge something based on time! These sort of people trade partners until they get someone young enough. I do wonder how their exes feel. Most sane people would rather see an old couple rather than an old aging fool with someone he got under his foot or even has a contract of exchanging with. Character matters and so do motives.
+Coco Pops ... One could argue and in many cases rightly so too that the whole institution of marriage is about men trying to control women.. that all religions are about men trying to manipulate women... but in my constrained worldview, I have seen that despite what the facebook forwards or whatsapp jokes may want us to believe, not all men are the same nor are all women or all marriages and relationships. And there is no such thing as ever lasting love, however there are ever lasting marriages... You call it control and manipulation, I have seen compromises at work there.... and in any lasting relationship, there have to be compromises, willingly or otherwise... Whether it is a good thing or not, is for them to decide, I don't judge them either way. I agree with you about the social conditioning played on by Hollywood at the behest of the corporations behind it.. and yes it certainly IS a sorry state of affairs.... But to say that these things never happened before Hollywood became so big and powerful is also not correct... They happened just as often, only the expectations were more realistic. People invested more in the relationship rather than in themselves or in the partner ... of course "social conditioning" of that time played its part too.. Don't be swayed too far by LOVE. It is a high, perhaps stronger than blue magic ... nothing more than a BIG rush of dopamines that makes the colors look brighter and world more pink . And like all highs, it invariably wears off sooner or later... I am genuinely sorry for what you have been through in the past and hope you ended up wiser despite your battle scars, but there is a world beyond these perverted men and women where normal people live and do normal things. And yes, age is just a number there. Now please allow me to wish you a wonderful New year today, for new surprises and new madnesses to keep you excited... and keep posting... Cheers
It's interesting to see the commentary here. So many praising Alfred as the honorable, "Good" one, while Tristan is the "bad" or somehow "Evil" one. To believe this however is to miss some of the vital points of the story. One of my favorite aspects of the film is the highlighting of different cultures coming together. Ludlow, a wealthy, white, Englishman. Much the way his sons would later do, left his home looking for adventure, glory, and adulation. But in the process, discovers a different kind of life partner in One-Stab. This is (thankfully) not sexualized in any way, but the two had a deep meaningful, life long connection to each other that goes beyond ordinary friendship. This relationship informs all of the Colonel's actions and decisions for his life, including how his sons, Tristan in particular are raised. In the scene where the boys decide they are going to war, Ludlow says "I taught you to think for yourselves, thats what I taught you!". Clearly, this included which lifestyles they would embrace. Tristan embraced One-Stab's culture while Samuel and Alfred emulated their mother. Prim and proper, always dressy, and more concerned with they former homeland which they have never even set foot on. This context is so important to understand before putting them into "Good" or "Bad" boxes. Native cultures are varied, but often do not resemble western, "Christianized" values. While they do have their own codes of morality, standards, manners, etc, they are not aligned with ours. For example, "Traditional Christian marriage" is scene as "good" or "decent", right? But only if you are raised in that tradition. Alfred clearly doesn't understand this either as he later laments "I followed all of God's rules". As Christians do, he believes this should afford him favored position with Susanna (much like they believe it will in death). Also like most Christians, he is looking for rewards for his behavior. These are man-made constructs however that don't exist in One-Stab's culture. Tristan, like Stab goes a different path through life. To a "decent Christian", his behavior borders on "Barbarism". Wild, free, constantly coming and going, all while participating in rituals and other things that are not accepted as good Christian behavior. To the tamed Christian, he is doing Susanna wrong. (Interestingly, nobody sees Susanna's jumping from Ludlow to Ludlow as "wrong". She comes from English high society and clearly has the option to return as Mrs. Ludlow does, but that's for another way-too-long comment) In my view, neither Alfred, nor Tristan are inherently right or wrong. Alfred lives his life chasing glory, adulation, power, and wealth that comes with his lofty position in government. Tristan seeks a connection with nature, the world around him, and unfettered freedom to come and go as he chooses. But Alfred also wants family, the love, respect and cooperation of an obedient wife, and the "perfect" family life. Tristan similarly wants the safety, warmth, and care of a wife and family (at first with Susanna, then later with Isabel-Two). But both men discover that their personal desires are not compatible with their familial pursuits. Alfred's pursuit of Susanna, even during Samuel's life was not a noble one. Nor was his neglect of her while he rose to political power, or his initial abandonment of his father upon their disagreement. Tristan's proclivity toward criminal life was similarly counter to his eventual desire to settle and have a family as he constantly put their safety at risk, eventually resulting in the death of his wife and endangerment of the rest of the family. All in all, both men are simply human. Both complex, both with light and dark in them, but manifested very differently. In the end, the lives lived brought them back around to each other because family is of course the strongest gravitational field there is. If you made it to the end of this way-too-long post, I thank you! And yes, i do have too much time on my hands.
And thank you for taking some of that time to write the best review of this art piece I have ever read. Thoroughly insightful and balanced. Plus lovely to read.
Idk if Alfred was really neglectful. We don't see their dating or beginning of marriage. I always imagined that she was the one who grew distant because of her depression and he tried to give her a good life best he knew how. It was probably unspoken between them that she was always in love with his brother(s) and had settled for him. Prob made him insecure. Feeling hurt is something we avoid, so even if he was neglectful I kinda don't blame him. He should have chosen another woman tho just cuz she was 2 for 3 already and that's just kinda gross 😁
Your analysis raises valid points. But it's not quite on point about Susannah. In addition to her willingness to wait for Tristan, Susannah doesn't really have much of a place to go after Samuel's death. Her parents are both dead and we never hear about her having other relatives who can take her in. Women in her class weren't taught any practical skills for work and women hadn't even been allowed to attend college for very many years at that point. Alfred offered her a harbor and broken-hearted and broken Susannah took it. It's incredibly sad.
Its crazy that in the comments ppl felt sorry for her. Shes out here fucking all the brothers and is in love with the one brother that really didnt give a damn about her! LOL!
Unfortunately, she didn't learn her lesson and got involved with the brothers in Sabrina and also with the King and his knight Sir Lancelot in First Knight.
I loved him with Isabel and he seemed so at peace with his family....but still, I felt so sad for Susannah in this scene, especially when she turns back and looks at them after they walked away.
Her fault, she didn't have to get with Al she could've went back to Boston & started a new life for herself she didn't have to see Tristan or his family again.
Some of y’all need to understand tristan never really loved Susannah, he only used her for her beauty and pleasure and he was still coping of his brothers loss and she can move on that quick.If he truly loved her he’d make it up and go back with Susannah. I formally believe his true love is Isabel II they never really got to share their chemistry between them
You can really feel Susannah's pain of seeing children with Tristan and named Samuel no less. The foreshadowing in this film is impeccable at how simplistic it is because it never gives way to the true twists and turns that you never saw coming. Brilliantly done.
Susannah loved Tristan but she never really understood him. Isabel not only loved Tristan but she also understood him. Honestly, I think Susannah loved the idea of Tristan but didn't really try to understand him. Alfred was better for her but she never gave him a chance to be a good husband to her.
She feel in love with the "qoute" bad boy the "mysterious one" but you're right Isabel loved & understood Tristan they've known each other for years. Isabel knew Tristen was a man of the wild, who freely expressed himself you saw the scene of him sitting in the meadow just relaxing, talking & riding with her. We never saw him do that with Susannah he just didn't feel comfortable with her. To me Tristan closed himself off from Susannah because she was his bros woman & here he was sleeping with her. I know he probably felt dirty, horrible, ashamed & that Sam would be so disgusted with him Tristan already got shit from Alfred for it because he too fell for her. While in jail when Susannah tried to reattach herself to him he probably felt anger at her for thinking of betraying his brother & at his brother for marrying her instead of finding someone else. He's like "Bro why did you have go after my sloppy seconds I thought you were better than that now look at the mess we're in."
@DarcyBrandon Your analysis is spot on. I think Isabel was perfect for Trisran as she was more mature as a person despite being younger in age... He was truly happy with her. Susannah would've been perfectly happy with Alfred had she given him a chance. Alfred was a man of integrity n capable of advancing in the world plus he loved her dearly... what else could you ask in a husband... IMO Samuel too wasn't ready for her as he was intimidated by her, a fact he shared with Tristan... Susannah allowed herself to be passionately drawn towards Tristan knowing that he wasn't comfortable with the idea... I'm not finding faults with anyone as to me they're all beautiful, complex characters... But Susannah and Tristan were doomed from the start primarily coz they both knew in their hearts that they fell for each other while Samuel was very much alive, a guilt which haunted Tristan. As for Alfred (though he loved Susannah too right from the start, he was cerebral enough not to express it or yield to it in his brother's life, a characteristic which points towards his self discipline, self sacrifice n integrity. That's why he could propose to her beside Samuel's grave with a clean heart. Had Susannah allowed herself to be loved by Alfred, she'd have been a much happier woman as Tristan n Isable had become in their union. Susannah in her way destroyed herself and others around her unwittingly. I almost cry almost always when Alfred talks to Tristan at her grave, "I followed all the rules, God's, man's and you, you followed none... yet they all loved you more: father, Samuel even my own wife"... It was so poignant. One of the best movies ever... ❤
She never understood him because Tristan never really opened himself up to her. He was a grieving broken man. He truly didn't want to hurt her but ultimately he did when he let her go and when he gave Isabel everything Susannah wanted from him. Susannah would have done anything for Tristan she changed everything about herself to try to impress him to be with.
@@queensugar4953 Yes, it's not fair to compare the two relationships in term of understanding. Isabel knew Tristan since she was young. She lived on the same farm, had a very similar life. How could they not at least relate to each other in some manner? It wasn't a magical, soulmate kind of understanding/connection. (Not that I really believe in that.) They weren't completing each other's sentences or those long, stereotypical glances. He did stare at Isabel at first, because he was shocked to see her as an adult and she was attractive. This is proven with the gift he brought back. It was for a child. Susannah, on the other hand, just been introduced shortly Tristan before the men departed for the war. If you wanna talk about those longing glances and big smiles, that was when they both first saw each other. ESPECIALLY Tristan! Later on, they are commiserating with each other where Susannah was feeling sorrowful. It shows there was an understanding between them. A deeper connection, because they didn't know each other that long. Then he returned home from the war with PTSD, shame, guilt, despondency. Feelings he didn't know how to resolve or express. But there was an understanding and trust between them. She was able to get him to open up and allay his mourning at the grave. Which is hard to get Tristan to be candid, because he pushes everyone away when he's really upset. They were able to have a sense of calm in the storm, because they did go horseback riding together. But of course, Tristan's emotions were mercurial. So, how do you expect the dude to be relaxing in the grass with all this, at least for long? Or in emotional numbing from all the distress, he penned, "You are dead to me as I am dead to myself"? I wouldn't blame someone if they fell out of love over that letter. The dude had serious, serious emotional issues. So, there was no room or real energy to have a healthy relationship with anyone. I wouldn't want Susannah/Tristan to be reconciled her at this point, either. It's toxic. But the point is, there was an understand and a trust between during all this. Susannah was the one who could calm him, at least for a while, and he'd reveal his raw, authentic self to. As far as Isabel and Tristan go, their relationship started after Tristan was able to obtain a peace of mind & normalcy again. This is why he was able to relax. It wasn't so much her or them. Not to claim that Isabel didn't increase his happiness. She did. That they didn't love each other. They did. But it was the bear within was sleeping that greatly softened him. Isabel never had at time where he need to really rely on her, so I can't claim how she'd react. Maybe great, maybe not. Would she be able to get Tristan to trust her like he did with Susannah? Would she be able quell his inner animal? She may have been able to calm him a bit. But as far as quelling it for a while? No. I'd also speculate that he didn't totally trust her, because from it shown in the movie, she never sees his wild side -- his soul. At least not while they are together. So, I don't think their love is so real or special. Idk if in their discussions, that Tristan was fully open with her about everything. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. But talking is a far cry from what Susannah experienced. Tristan was a reticent person and didn't trust easily when it came to his heart. Also, Tristan finds out that Susannah was betrothed to Alfred. He's obviously not happy. But he accepts the fact, "As it should be." Tristan had brought back that cuff for Susannah. She rejects it, as she's married & the promise was too much to bear. He insists that she keep it, as he wants her to be protected. Which yes, Tristan loved his brother, wanted to be honorable altho he wasn't always. But if you really pay attention to his words, Tristan still loved her but resigned. Shortly thereafter, he started dating Isabel because he couldn't have Susannah. Even at the jail cell, he was at first embracing of her kisses. He closes his eyes. He's not disgusted or angry. He defended Susannah by saying that she had nothing to do with Isabel's death, which she didn't! Over his own wife? Susannah was the love of his life, but due to the tragic storyline, she was the untouchable. Isabel was the back-up. I'm not a big fan of Isabel. Not sure why. Think it may be because there was an air of arrogance to her. Susannah and Tristan's r/s definitely has issues regarding cheating. It's messed up because the men were going to war and the aftermath. That's your bro's girl! And Tristan did become more honorable. Susannah, ah.. They sure paid for the emotional cheating. I guess that's why I can be more forgiving, because loyalty is a big, big deal to me.
I think that it was definitely the wrong time for the two of them. They could've been happy as a couple but Tristan was still dealing with PTSD and losing his brother (of course, everyone also knows that Tristan is naturally 'wild'). I believe beside that Susannah was very attractive physically (strong physical attraction), Tristan started a relationship/sexual relationship with her as in to keep 'close' to the memory of his brother, Samuel, like that's the 'remnant' of what's left from his brother. In a way, Tristan was 'using' Susannah to keep 'close to memory of Samuel.' But on the other hand, he knew the social perception of what his relationship with Susannah is. So he also felt very much 'upset at himself' for being with her and for 'using' her. Of course, they had very strong chemistry sexually, one that Susannah had very much trouble relinquishing. Was it truly 'love' between him and Susannah? I think Tristan due to his guilt couldn't quite accept that it might be or it had to potential to bloom into true loving and lasting relationship. Obviously, Susannah didn't see things this way. She's always been intrigued by Tristan. I believe that she saw him even as 'exotic' and 'foreign.' The idea of being withTristan equals 'freedom' for her. You see the scene where the two of them herded cattles, Susannah hair wild, wearing pants on horses. Being with him was 'different' experience and outside the norm what men-women hierarchy and relationship should've been back then. I think she felt 'free' with him and saw Tristan as the symbol of her life of freedom. Obviously after she married Alfred, she was shuffled back to the position 'normal' to women of her breeding and status,therefore life with Alfred was stifling for her, no matter how well provided she was. No matter how great Alfred was as a husband, she didn't want that lifestyle, she was only doing it because Tristan rejected her (it's like the 'wild' has basically said 'no' to her being there). Feeling rejected she decided to go back to her previous lifestyle but obviously, she never stopped wanting certain 'freedom' from her life. I was not surprised she saw Tristan as her 'savior' in that manner and idealizing the 'love' they shared. The moment he turned her down, she saw that there was no way out for her and she would be trapped in this 'gilded jail' she's been living. So she committed suicide...
Susanna's pain is very real .... To fall in love with a man that was not ready to return it and waiting for him to change ... Is HELL. No matter how many years go by .. the love in her heart and the future she wanted with Tristan did not fade ... Seeing Tristan finally at Peace with himself , happy and making plans in his new life and looking into the eyes of the little boy she wanted so much with Tristan ...surely had to kill her inside ... Knowing that he truly loved Isobel 2 and she would never get him back ...
Yes, what you said is true. You left out one important thing though, which is the lesson of this story - NEVER wait for somebody to change. You're more likely to be hit by a meteor than to experience somebody changing the way they are. They may change some of their ways, mind you, but their inner being and spirit will never change. Oh, and one more lesson, NEVER try to make someone to love you, or beg for them to. If true, genuine love is reciprocated, you will know it and it will last forever.
I have to disagree (sorry Susannah fans) but I honestly think that Tristan felt nothing but lust for Susannah and nothing more but it was love at first sight for him with Isabel Two (after he returned and she was 20) so she was his REAL true love
I think you right when I first saw him and Isabel together It looked like he was finally happy he let go of the pain he had for not being able to save his brother and moved on with his life with Isabel his one and only love. =)
I kind of agree with you because Alfred was madly in love with her, and when Alfred asked Tristan if he loves Susannah or if he seduced her to despite Alfed, Tristan said that was not the case, and Alfred said to Tristan he can't make her happy and Tristan said he was gonna try if she'll have him, and Alfred said you will fail but he failed to make her happy I guess, and I guess Tristan gave up on Susannah because of the hostilty between him and his brother Alfred cause I know before Susannah came into their lives they had an unbeakable bond and when Susannah killed herself and was out of the picture they reconciled
Isabel 2 is flipping gorgeous, I was stunned when I saw the adult Isabel 2, who wouldn't fall for her? She has a nice voice too and has that 'exotic' factor.
I think he really loved Susannah but felt guilty because he promised to look after Samuel for her and their relationship was also the cause of Alfred's departure. With Isabel 2, there was peace. It brought everyone together and no one was fighting over anyone.
Then you are in fantasy land. The novella has Susannah and Tristan NOT Isabel . Hollywood is trying to promote their huge age gap which at the time this was set was becoming less existent because people KNEW it was wrong and that under 25s were developing. He came back to marry SUSANNAH and was testing her when he told her to move on. She had put up a facade of being in love. Her marriage is a sham. Tristan meets Isabel a few times and just married her to have children. He did not love her. Love blossoms. Susannah and tristan had the right kind of love. Isabel was nothing more than an incubator. They also showed the audience her arrogant side. Hollywood is very creepy and usually does this sort of thing. as a child saying you're going to marry a man who is your dad's age? yes it must be true. And then we have the bootlegging. He did not love his family because he didn't care how he got money. He knew people were after him. And then at the end he leaves his children for Alfred to have. You need to examine the film and realize what HOLLYWOOD was promoting and what was actually love. I really dislike people who saw Isabel for a bit. They slept together, had children and then she died. There was no depth to that love. He did it to spite Susannah and a huge sign was to have kids and name one Samuel. the way he looks at her when they meet at the fair says it all. It should have been more like the notebook. It would have been more successful and memorable had he NOT married a child and had children. the second half ruins itself. The novella itself has her even younger. I find it very creepy that people advocate someone developing to marry a middle aged man. Susannah was the true beauty in this film but she was being hurt wherever she went. Isabel was just a baby maker and insignificant character. Hollywood messed up. And isabel had psychological issues. In reality psople KNOW it is not love. Men like him just bide their time and trade women in. It is not love.
This is one of the scenes where Julia Ormond shows what an excellent actress she is. She's bravissima in showing an enormous gamma of emotions especially the ones connected to sadness. She has an enormous sensitivity. Thumbs up to Brad Pitt too. Apart from being absolutely gorgeous, his acting is incredible. Beautiful film! 🧡
Susannah is angry because Isabelle gave Tristan what she can't (or couldn't) and that Tristan gave Isabelle what he couldn't give her. She's very bitter about that.
Susannah is more heartbroken than bitter about it. She kills herself in despair because she never regained the sense of freedom she felt while she was with Tristan. It's really Tristan who is the rock that everyone breaks themselves against.
@@Ashley-jv8vj He even said he knew she didn't love him just like he reminded his dad about his marriage to his mom. But Alfred no doubt kept hoping Susannah would fall in love with him which she didn't She should've just took her ass back to Boston & saved herself & the remaining bros the heartache. In the book her parents are alive & they loved Alfred but didn't like Tristan.
Love can't be forced. She settled for Alfred, as Tristan settled for Isabel Two. Alfred thought that he could change her heart by being the good guy. He knew she didn't love him romantically. Susannah used Alfred, and he allowed it. She shouldn't have done that. Selfish. Alfred and Susannah should've never been together.
Imagine for a few moments. Susannah sees Tristans son for the first time. Susannah can't have children for some reason. Tristan has a son with another lady and the son looks like her first husband who died tragically in the war. Hard to take.
@QueenbohemianQ I totally agree. She had no parents, no brothers and sisters, loses the love of her life to another, and then she marries Alfred with whom she bares no children. She seemed like a good, caring, motherly type woman who lost even less than what she had to begin with.
@woodburygurl123 : Susannah loved Triston with all her heart. She realized it later that Triston was no singing bird but an eagle which belonged to the skies. Perhaps she married Alfred without loving him only so that she could still be connected to Triston. Like they say... a heart wants what it wants.
susannah's character had a great impact on me that after watching the movie, i swore not to name my future daughter after her. julia ormond played her so well that i can imagine any other actress to portray susannah.
Susannah putting on a happy front that she’s happy for Tristan and Isabel II but on the inside she’s burning with rage, jealousy and sadness that she’s not Little Samuel’s Mama and Tristans Number One😢😢😢😢
Had susannah have waited all those years and he came back, she would have been in mad competition with isabel. Isabel even stated as a child that one day, she would marry Tristan. Her native intuition already knew the future
I see her pain. But also protective disdain from Isabel II, directed at Susanna. She absolutely emanates it when Susanna leans in & peeks at the new baby. There is so many undercurrents for them all; brilliant directing.
I feel bad for Susana Tristan didnt loved her enough to stay with her, and she could never moved on from him, he found somebody right away and forget about her, Man can do that easylly in real live, woman get atached harder and is more difucult for us.
yamsnz I dont think is a rule that happends 100 % of the cases of course, I do believe for my own experience, and other people that im close experiences that woman are the ones who tend to hold on harder, I do have a male friend who got depressed for more than a year after her girlfriend leave hin for another man, and it was really hard for him to move on, I know man have feelings too. lol.
+cloudwalker08 he did love her. Isabel was a rebound. He did not stay to raise his own kids with her which just proves it. He tried to spite susannah and even named his son samuel which was susannahs idea.
+cloudwalker08 1)"time goes by and we feel safe too soon."This shows two things. a) He is basically stating that Tristan jumped into thinking he was "HAPPY". He is saying that Tristan is actively SEEKING a false, peaceful happiness, unlike the tumultuous love for Susannah, that will not tax his nerves. Everyone wants that but it is seldom obtainable! Tristan had MISSED his one chance at happiness with Susannah, and in seeking it with Isabel Two, had found only a small part of it, that was ultimately false, not the REAL LOVE of his life, but rather, someone comfortable to him and approved of by his relatives. 2) He had ptsd and knew that he would not be the same unless he found some clarity in life. When he wrote the letter to Susannah, I believe it was out of love. He knew he was not in the right state of mind and didn't think he would return home and if he did, he know that he, at least in that state, couldn't make her happy the way she deserved. The note was written to free her, so she could officially be happy, which I believe he did out of selflessness only coming from true love, not because he truly let her go. This is proven when Tristan returns the second time with obvious intentions of marrying her because now in sane mind, he believed they would be able to be together. He even goes to speak with her, not his brother and when he sees her in the garden, you can see it in his face how much he still loves her and even more so as he explains to her the reasoning behind sending her the bracelet while persuading her to keep it. I believe he married Isabelle two because he was lonely and while he cared very deeply for her, I don't feel his love for her was the same as that for Susannah.I believed he still loved her despite knowing they would never be together. When he receives the news she has passed, you can tell beyond doubt he loved her and that it broke his heart Putting another's happiness above your own is true love in its purest form. 3)His relationship with isabel seemed very platonic and even alfred sees how they are more like siblings. There is no passion there. Tristan was never like he was before. And that was the aim too! They changed his character for the worse and he lost his wildness and passion for life. The tristan character overall was contradictory. I know many women married to a real tristan and he isn't like the movie made him to be. Nor are those men attracted to children lol. Isabel had issues and I found it wrong for the writers to have included her. This could still have been the tragedy they wanted but it sadly didn't flow. I suggest you watch a river runs through it. It is a great film and James's music would have fared better there.
+Coco Pops thanks for your great point of view, this subject is on my mind a lot since I had a man who basically went away from me and never even knew why, after found out he was with other beeing happy, so many things unsolved and when I saw this scene I could feel her pain , seeking for understanding is what can bring us peace, learn how to be able to put ourselves in the other person shoes in this case,s and you explained Tristan position wich makes total sence to me . I do remember how he looked at her in the garden he wanted to come back to her.
@MultiGem. I felt sad for both the women. They both died for him in their own way. As One Stab puts it towards the end of the story: He was a rock they broke themselves against however much he tried to protect them
I will always believe that Susannah's love for Tristan was so intense that it manifested itself as an evil karma that caused Isabel Two to die so violently.
Oh no question! Plus when Tristan is in jail she admits she wanted Isabel Two to die! And you say love but that woman lusted after Tristan, you can see that while she’s still engaged to a breathing Samuel. That’s why she says maybe I even wanted Samuel to die. To me that was her admitting I’ve wanted you since day 1. She was hoping to build a happily ever after with Tristan on the foundation of that lust & shared sorrow over Samuel’s death. That’s why I love the married life montage between Tristan & Isabel Two. Love with the right person is like medicine, but lust will eventually make you sick.
@@alexisannaaguirre5364 Yup Susannah didn’t love Tristan, she was obsessed with him. To truly love someone is to want them to be happy even if it’s not with you. Tristan just used Susannah yet immediately wife’d Isabel 2 because that’s the woman he truly loved. Susannah should have left that family alone when Samuel died. She took advantage of Tristan’s vulnerability when he was mourning Sam’s death and tried to do so again when Isabel 2 died. I’m glad he rejected her obsessive ass, but wish she had gotten help.
Suzanna and Isabelle met when she first came to the ranch with Samuel. She bonded with Isabelle and cared for her. She also, helped her in her studies as a little girl.
Each time I watch this movie I hope that Tristan comes back before Susannah's marriage with Alfred or that Susannah really waits for Tristan forever. But it never happens.
Part of me believed that if Susannah actually waited, Tristan would likely return to her and they would reconnect. But the narrator said something about him leaving for many years, so it's probably like a decade (hence Isabel was a grown up when they met again)..I think by his last letter, it's practically a break up letter, so Susannah knew that if she waited for Tristan to make up his mind, she wouldn't have a chance to have children (she wanted children). Since she was still in love with Tristan, I think it's hard for her to just leave anew and started with another beau, she chose to marry Alfred because he's connected to Tristan.
Sorry to the Susannah fans out there but no one held a gun to her head and forced her to marry his brother. She said so herself "Forever turned out to be too long" - she can't expect him to sit around pining for her.
I don't disagree with you. But the tragedy is that even had Susannah waited for Tristan, Alfred was right - it's doubtful Tristan would ever have married Susannah. She loved him far more than he could allow himself to love her. No matter how anyone slices it, Tristan did not treat Susannah well. The kindest thing he actually did for her was to send his devastating letter telling her to move on. She tried, half heartedly. But her love for Tristan was ultimately her undoing.
I'm sorry, but I think the opposite. Susannah was like spell nd he ran away to get rid off it(though, of course, he was a human being, so he loed her at the time), bur when he got home again, he got it being completely changed and while still had warm feelings for Susannah, who he loved was Isabel Two.
I believe neither Tristan or Alfred were right for Susannah. The one who was perfect for her was Samuel. After Samuel died in the war, she should have left and move on with her life elsewhere. Her relationships with Tristan and Alfred only brought pain to her, the brothers and the enitre family. I am sure she would have recovered from the pain of losing Samuel elsewhere and would have had the chance to live a happy life. Despite the tragedy, this is a really nice movie to watch!.
Susannah needed to come to terms that she needed to love herself more than a man who she looked up to. He obviously didn’t deserve her love beyond admiration, especially when he only lusted after her- never allow yourself to be used by a man just to lie to yourself that you can change his feelings to love you. It’s admirable that she knew what she wanted but it became her weakness when she couldn’t let go, when she placed what she wanted on a higher pedestal than herself. How could she enjoy life when she chose to feel sentimental about these things she chose to value when she can let go. Her loyalty is commendable but it’s more damaging to herself only. She can choose who she desires to be loyal to and it’s important for women like her to respect themselves. She is no less than the couple just because they got everything she wanted. Susannahs life was spared from their tragedy. I would never wish for tristans life story. She needs to not think so highly of just another man. Just because he made her feel so special once- because Susannah just needs to put herself out there more and not commit- and not wait for anyone. She needs to free herself so she can find her real happiness.
Damn this scene and the acting was phenomenal. How could Tristan do that to Susannah? You can feel her pain. In the end he looses his wife and Susannah. This movie is a romance but the most sad and tragic one i ever saw.
I originally thought she was sad looking at Samuel because he reminded her of her true love. I was a kid when I first watched this and didn’t put together what she said at the jail scene about wishing BOTH Isabel and Samuel dead so she could have Tristan. She might have thought fondly of Samuel, but her tears were envy and longing. Makes me dislike her even more.
Awe Isabel she is so sweet.. the way she exchanges compassionate eye contact with Susannah is so humble.
Alfred was the true mvp of the story. The older I get, the more sympathetic I feel towards him. He had the right intentions, honorable, well spoken, respectful of women (especially considering the time period) and in the end he choose family above all else. Nowadays my heart goes out to him when I watch this epic.
You mean the time period where men stayed on the Titanic as you floated away? Women have always had it better.
Alfred lost his way. He got into politics and sided with those brothers. I hardly think that makes him the mvp. His blaming of Samuel's death onto Tristan did not help him in the grieving process not to mention his assumption that Tristan and Susannah had an affair before leaving for the war. Remember he even questioned if secretly Tristan wanted Samuel dead to be with Susannah. Sure he had admirable qualities and all the characters were flawed as our real people. I say to you... Samuel was the hero or mvp of the story. His memory drives the movie. Everyone is secretly holding his memory as the standard. Samuel going to war created the entire story to which we have this movie. He decides to stay at home with his new wife to be and northing happens. His death drove the family apart till the end. Samuel is the mvp.
@@t-jh4236 The Dad is MVP hands down. Those punk kids should've listened to their Pops he was right about everything
@@steveguse4481 Yep. Going off to a War that they had no stake in🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿
Nah, he was a simp, nothing honorable about that.
the pain is real when u see the man u love with the family u always wanted....
+Corinna Ayala And the son (her nephew) is named Samuel. Great movie. Easily one of my favourites.
+Corinna Ayala You said it so well... so heart shattering well
ignore it. In reality people sympathize with susannah like characters e.g princess diana because they are truly wronged and karma certainly exists! I would just brush it off and wait for the inevitable to happen and move onto a more decent man who doesn't trade women in!
+Coco Pops Tristan didn't trade in women. He was a broken man when he left and felt she deserved better so he told her to move on. She did. When Tristan came home, Isabel was waiting for him.
Don't excuse sociopathic behaviour please. If it happens in reality, we see it for what ut is.
He spite her out of revenge. They both give her dirty looks here. Quite sad. Overrated film.
Isabel the child with psychological daddy issues was waiting. A decent man knows the limit. If he was fixed he would be a free spirit and fight for real love. Not sit down and be boring. Free spirits grow old with someone. Don't hurt people intentionally. Not arguing anymore because I write in detail elsewhere. Later! p.s watch last of the mohicans, braveheart, notebook and titanic to see what real love and free spirit behaviour is like
They way she played this role.. my God, what a talent. I felt the pain of this scene like a thousands knives slicing my heart.
She s underrated
Still wonder why she disappeared
the way she turns back to look one last time, almost involuntarily, like a spasm of physical pain... My God, what incredible acting. A rare performance.
Isabelle 2 has loved Tristan since she was a little girl. Love to see that storyline of her growing up. What a beauty she is.
I always tear up when Susannah looks at Samuel. You can see how much she wanted children and never had any. And that backward glance she gives as she and Alfred leave gets to me every time.
Superb acting.
Everybody talks about the romance in this movie, love triangle between Susannah and the brothers, what really gets to me is the affection between the brothers. I could tell Tristan missed Alfred and vice versa, that's what stays with me,the bond between brothers.
Yups, their brotherhood was enduring. Tested through all the adversity. Alfred chose politics over his family. But when Alfred protected his family over the dirty businessmen in such a dire time, they forgave him, because Alfred showed who he was ultimately loyal. And Tristan/Alfred were able to mend their r/s, because Tristan knew that Alfred was responsible and stable enough to take on rearing Tristan's kids.
Yessss! I loved Alfred in this scene, he was happy to see Tristan again, I think this was the point where they made peace with one another again.
Me too!!!! The true love & bond between brothers gets me every time too. Both actors convey so much with their eyes... nuanced and poignant... so deeply moving. Good cast choicse for sure.
Alfred is honorable and hardworking. He loves Susannah and marries her, no doubt hoping that she will grow to love him instead of Tristan. She doesn’t. Alfred loses his little brother, Samuel, and then loses Susannah. He has no children. He is estranged from his disabled father. Despite all this, he saves Tristan from a brutal death.
I hope Alfred later found happiness with a woman who valued his constancy and his courage.
Alfred is great in his own right. He truly loved Susannah and gave her the best life he could know how. It was not Alfred's fault that she couldn't love him. I think Susannah was wired differently. She wanted a different life, the life she experienced with Tristan, when she was free to do what she wanted and she felt 'freest' with Tristan. She's a product of her time, but she wanted a different life. Being married to Alfred felt stifling and like she was in a beautiful gilded cage because she didn't feel 'free.' She saw Tristan as her 'savior' who showed her that 'life.' Therefore she tried to go back to Tristan once Isabela was gone. But since he said 'no,' Susannah didn't see any other options for her, and for her, pretending to love her life is futile, she was 'stuck' so she committed suicide. It really had nothing to do with Alfred.
It is just a movie. Alfred wasn’t wild enough for Susanna. She wanted the hot bad boy. Like damn.
@@katierojas8066 lol exactly. There’s not too much to analyze, it’s Brad fucking Pitt
I definitely would’ve chosen Alfred. Screw Tristan
Synthesis Spencer She did. That’s the problem.
"Tristin died in 1963, in the moon of the poppy trees. His grave is unmarked, but it does not matter. He always lived on the border... somewhere between this world and the next." That statement by One Stab sums up the character of Tristin for anyone who was confused about him while viewing the film.
It was a good death
Wow. You can just feel her pain and her heart shattering into a million pieces seeing Tristan with his family I feel her pain here great acting .
Yup, this scene is always tough to watch.
This movie tears my soul up. Julie Ormond has such a beautiful voice and is so lovely. Just adds to her character's sullenness.
Yes, when Julia stepped off that train I was like "Wow, what a beauty!" She was on Witches of East End & she's still a beauty.
@@catspaw3092I loved that show! Her and Madchkin are gorgeous.
This part is truly heartbreaking on so many levels & the truth is no one is to be blamed.... it’s just how life played out and how incredibly sad and heartfelt.
I love Susannah's hat in this scene.
Timing in relationships is everything. Isabel 2 was lucky to get Tristan when he was in a "better place". Although something tells me if Susannah had waited for Tristan, he probably still wouldn't have married her.
I ain’t waitin for a man. It was years before he came back home. I would move on too. He was a bootlegger. No thanks. Alfred was honest and successful which at this point in my life, that’s what I would want. Not some wild boy who bootlegs and puts his family in danger. Boy bye
There is no waiting in love: if this guy didn't want her to begin with, enough to go after her and make it happen, she was waiting for nothing. Meanwhile, she had a handsome, successful man who really loved her and she didn't appreciate him. That is the tragedy. Bad boys will break your heart. Its not worth it.
She always been reminds his brother to him
@@katierojas8066 I was glad when Tristan was eaten by the bear. He was a jerk.
Too true, Tristan wouldn't have married her I also think she's unable to have kids that's why she said "Just give me a chance" to which Tristan said "Don't do that" he wasn't interested in settling down with her. He wouldn't even look Susannah in the face he didn't want her & he felt he had betrayed his brother Sam plus his older brother left because of him.
You can tell that tristan is happy and at peace!She on the other hand is not!On another note how cute is that little boy!!
Susannah was unable to have children with Tristan. I think this is why she is haunted by the meeting.
Tristan is responsible for her state of mind. He just abandoned her and left her to rot.
@@DeepScreenAnalysis Well she took advantage of him when he was broken by his brothers death he wasn't stable of course it wouldn't last
Tristan came onto HER after his brother's death. He manipulated HER feelings. Did we even watch the same movie?@@keece64
I wonder what he looks like now?
So sad. The acting. The theme music. The story. All heart-breaking, yet so beautiful.
I can't help but cry every time I see this scene... I feel her pain.
the pain is real when u see the man u love with the family u always wanted. I even felt it and im a dude
There are no words to express how beautiful and moving this movie is.
This movie could not be more depressing. It was happy for 20 minutes maybe.
It's kind of like real life in a way. Life is suffering...
I Should Know This - I guess you don't like movies that move you?
Wasn't meant to be happy film.. its the heart very hard at times.. but very enjoyable tbvh.
😂😂
No wonder I was depressed in the 90s when movies like this came out.
I can literally feel Susannah's pain. I love this movie. Been watching it frequently for literally years!
Damn, Susannah wanted to name their son Samuel. That must've killed her.
It's probably what led her to do what she did at end of movie. She probably looked at Tristan's kids that day and said to herself 'those are my kids. Tristan is (not was) mine.' It's understandable from her point of her view to go home sit down in front of the bedroom mirror and have these thoughts. She needed help tho the moment Samuel died. Tristan sought out help for his grieving... Susannah never did.
That's why she wanted Isabel Two to die.
She deserved it
Hola Lety me dices si está más cerca y quedó atento saludos y graciasp a las oí otra cosa es lo q pex claro q información y Juan José Javier de su sistema sin conservar y no se lo dije o menos con la finalidad del sábado tipo y colaboración y pronta colaboración prestada ya no me había conectado con ella ir al seguro social y cultural en espera José Luis y soledad y colaboración y atención de lunes voy para el sábado por su colaboración para el desarrollo del sábado tipo y tamaño y colaboración con la casa del libro a ok igualmente y gracias de todos y todas esas y q pasó el número para poder hacer nada aún a pesar que se lo o menos con la finalidad del tratamiento es lo q pex no se ha pasado a ok para que puedas ver y q onda con eso de que se moje yo me encargo y q pasó a la espera José Juan y me lo puedes hacer algo con respecto a la casa de la noche del sábado y domingo de la noche del viernes para q onda y te lo envío en el sábado a ok igualmente le recordamos a nuestros socios a ir pero si Juan José Javier te mando un beso a ok pues la noche y q onda con lo cual es q no tengo nada de eso pero si me lo dijeron y q pasó con la intención y deseo okooo a ir juntos José Juan te mando el archivo con los que se ha pasado con la casa y no se ha producido un poco de flor del desierto y no te olvides que no tengo el agrado y q onda con el pero si no te olvides del presupuesto que nos vemos en espera se lo dijeron y ya me dirás algo un abrazo Isabel no te lo envío los archivos que se moje y no te preocupes yo entiendo lo del fondo del seguro social no se puede y no te olvides que te lo mando a ok para q vaya x el y yo he hablado hace a ok igualmente si puedes me lo dices algo gracias y un fuerte para los dos días en espera José Luis te mando la factura del seguro de la casa del señor Omar a ir pero no sé cómo están y si es necesario para la noche y no se lo dijeron si no te lo envío a la espera del pago del seguro de la empresa para poder ver la casa y me gustaría y quedó atento de su sistema el sábado y pásame tu cel pero te pido me dices y lo más importante que si se puede ver en iTunes ya se encuentra tu tienda y q pex claro si es que se lo o una persona muy responsable de su pie xq me da igual lo podemos dejar a ok para q vaya bien con ella ir al pendiente saludos y graciasp obra y no me pagaron hasta q volví al pendiente para que lo que si no se ha enviado yyp y quedó atenta de su pie xq se lo dije mi chava te envío los archivos que te digo iiiooklkkñmññppñllññ a las ocho a ok igualmente y gracias a todos por la invitación a ok para que ya no es lo mismo no tengo nada que hacer algo para q onda con eso ya es hora que se ha producido un juego genial yo te hablo para saber cómo va ha estar a tu iiiooklkkñmññppñllññ y quedó atento saludos a tu mamá cuando me dices si estás en turno mañana en compañía del grupo hay comentarios para q vaya bien y no te lo dije mi doña María a continuación a ok pues no me había olvidado y q pasó el link para descargar gratis y colaboración y quedó atento de su sistema sin conservar y quedó atento saludos cordiales ING a ir juntos José Luis he bajado de internet de las ocho a ir pero si Juan José y hay un jugador que se lo dije o menos creo en ti y q onda y predisposición para aprender de su sistema y
Indeed...
I feel Susannah's pain here. In one scene earlier in the film, Susannah was planning her future with Tristan and one of her dreams was to have his son and name it after Samuel. Now, she sees it come true with Tristan and another woman.
Because he wanted to spite her. She couldn't have her wish and because she had married without him he became selfish. I don't know who Hollywood is trying to kid with their promotion of a child marrying a middle aged man and trying to make it seem like a love story. especially by making her predict things as a child. There was no depth in isabel at all nor was there true love.
It was to have kids and put on a facade of moving on with life. leaving the kids behind and bootlegging proved it.
I think people are not critical enough. This is Hollywood's version btw.
1)"time goes by and we feel safe too soon."This shows two things. a) He is basically stating that Tristan jumped into thinking he was "HAPPY".
He is saying that Tristan is actively SEEKING a false, peaceful happiness, unlike the tumultuous love for Susannah, that will not tax his nerves. Everyone wants that but it is seldom obtainable!
Tristan had MISSED his one chance at happiness with Susannah, and in seeking it with Isabel Two, had found only a small part of it, that was ultimately false, not the REAL LOVE of his life, but rather, someone comfortable to him and approved of by his relatives.
2) He had ptsd and knew that he would not be the same unless he found some clarity in life. When he wrote the letter to Susannah, I believe it was out of love. He knew he was not in the right state of mind and didn't think he would return home and if he did, he know that he, at least in that state, couldn't make her happy the way she deserved. The note was written to free her, so she could officially be happy, which I believe he did out of selflessness only coming from true love, not because he truly let her go. This is proven when Tristan returns the second time with obvious intentions of marrying her because now in sane mind, he believed they would be able to be together.
He even goes to speak with her, not his brother and when he sees her in the garden, you can see it in his face how much he still loves her and even more so as he explains to her the reasoning behind sending her the bracelet while persuading her to keep it. I believe he married Isabelle two because he was lonely and while he cared very deeply for her, I don't feel his love for her was the same as that for Susannah.I believed he still loved her despite knowing they would never be together. When he receives the news she has passed, you can tell beyond doubt he loved her and that it broke his heart
Putting another's happiness above your own is true love in its purest form. And I must add, he found a creepy infatuation with a developing CHILD
3)His relationship with isabel seemed very platonic and even alfred sees how they are more like siblings. There is no passion there. Tristan was never like he was before. And that was the aim too! They changed his character for the worse and he lost his wildness and passion for life.
The tristan character overall was contradictory. I know many women married to a real tristan and he isn't like the movie made him to be. Nor are those men attracted to children lol. Isabel had issues and I found it wrong for the writers to have included her. This could still have been the tragedy they wanted but it sadly didn't flow.
I suggest you watch a river runs through it. It is a great film and James's music would have fared better there.
You need to ask yourself that
+Coco Pops ... While Hollywood has always been far from perfect, relationships with huge age gaps are as commonplace as it gets. Mostly these relationships survive as much as the so called regular marriages, perhaps longer. Of course, you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine, but I wouldn't look down upon any of the two just because they had a seemingly large age gap. Tina Turner is 16 years elder to Erwin Bach and they are still together after 30 years. And that's just one example
And do you wonder why they survive? Because of manipulation, control, grooming or even exchanging money for power and wealth. Anyone with a mind and even an education in psychology or science knows this. Maybe a century ago it was normal in the western world but people became more clued on and guided their kids instead of marrying them off to ageist males.
I will give a list of OK age gaps. Age is no just a number when it comes to LOVE.
Under 21 and the most the gap should be is 2 years due to huge changes in mind and body. 21+ and 5-8 years is fine.
When you're around 30, 13 years max. The other person was at least a proper child when you were born and the motives are not something awful.
After both are mid forties and over then a slightly smaller gap in the teens is fine.
I laugh when people claim these relationships LAST longer. Time is NOTHING if character is bad. Motives do play a part. And our ageist society who promotes old men and young women and now even the other way around (even less so than the former) needs to stop.
Young people ARE easily controlled and DO have a different view of the world. I have experience in these sort of 'relationships' and was even groomed and abused by someone who claimed to LOVE me even though I was a child! And I have met many women who did wake up one day and realise what they were being used for. Anyone with a mind , experience or someone who has received guidance as they should have from their parents KNOWS what these relationships are about. So no this isn't about opinion. It is about fact. It's the reason for why in the mid ish 1900s people knew all about what these relationships were about.
AND kids were more stable before social conditioning. Most got jobs, married and had kids. But then came the conditioning Hollywood to promote whatever they wanted. Why do you think kids became reckless? They were taught that it was normal. Why do you think more older men are ageist and think they have the right to hit on girls their child or even grandchild's age? Because theporn industry as well as Hollywood has always promoted these relationships and its why people (sane ones at least) are SICK of the constant ageist sentiments.
In third world countries you will see what huge age gap relationships are about and it certainly isn't love. Cannot believe people judge something based on time! These sort of people trade partners until they get someone young enough. I do wonder how their exes feel. Most sane people would rather see an old couple rather than an old aging fool with someone he got under his foot or even has a contract of exchanging with. Character matters and so do motives.
+Coco Pops ... One could argue and in many cases rightly so too that the whole institution of marriage is about men trying to control women.. that all religions are about men trying to manipulate women... but in my constrained worldview, I have seen that despite what the facebook forwards or whatsapp jokes may want us to believe, not all men are the same nor are all women or all marriages and relationships. And there is no such thing as ever lasting love, however there are ever lasting marriages... You call it control and manipulation, I have seen compromises at work there.... and in any lasting relationship, there have to be compromises, willingly or otherwise... Whether it is a good thing or not, is for them to decide, I don't judge them either way.
I agree with you about the social conditioning played on by Hollywood at the behest of the corporations behind it.. and yes it certainly IS a sorry state of affairs.... But to say that these things never happened before Hollywood became so big and powerful is also not correct... They happened just as often, only the expectations were more realistic. People invested more in the relationship rather than in themselves or in the partner ... of course "social conditioning" of that time played its part too..
Don't be swayed too far by LOVE. It is a high, perhaps stronger than blue magic ... nothing more than a BIG rush of dopamines that makes the colors look brighter and world more pink . And like all highs, it invariably wears off sooner or later... I am genuinely sorry for what you have been through in the past and hope you ended up wiser despite your battle scars, but there is a world beyond these perverted men and women where normal people live and do normal things. And yes, age is just a number there.
Now please allow me to wish you a wonderful New year today, for new surprises and new madnesses to keep you excited... and keep posting... Cheers
It's interesting to see the commentary here. So many praising Alfred as the honorable, "Good" one, while Tristan is the "bad" or somehow "Evil" one. To believe this however is to miss some of the vital points of the story.
One of my favorite aspects of the film is the highlighting of different cultures coming together. Ludlow, a wealthy, white, Englishman. Much the way his sons would later do, left his home looking for adventure, glory, and adulation. But in the process, discovers a different kind of life partner in One-Stab. This is (thankfully) not sexualized in any way, but the two had a deep meaningful, life long connection to each other that goes beyond ordinary friendship. This relationship informs all of the Colonel's actions and decisions for his life, including how his sons, Tristan in particular are raised.
In the scene where the boys decide they are going to war, Ludlow says "I taught you to think for yourselves, thats what I taught you!". Clearly, this included which lifestyles they would embrace. Tristan embraced One-Stab's culture while Samuel and Alfred emulated their mother. Prim and proper, always dressy, and more concerned with they former homeland which they have never even set foot on. This context is so important to understand before putting them into "Good" or "Bad" boxes.
Native cultures are varied, but often do not resemble western, "Christianized" values. While they do have their own codes of morality, standards, manners, etc, they are not aligned with ours. For example, "Traditional Christian marriage" is scene as "good" or "decent", right? But only if you are raised in that tradition. Alfred clearly doesn't understand this either as he later laments "I followed all of God's rules". As Christians do, he believes this should afford him favored position with Susanna (much like they believe it will in death). Also like most Christians, he is looking for rewards for his behavior. These are man-made constructs however that don't exist in One-Stab's culture.
Tristan, like Stab goes a different path through life. To a "decent Christian", his behavior borders on "Barbarism". Wild, free, constantly coming and going, all while participating in rituals and other things that are not accepted as good Christian behavior. To the tamed Christian, he is doing Susanna wrong.
(Interestingly, nobody sees Susanna's jumping from Ludlow to Ludlow as "wrong". She comes from English high society and clearly has the option to return as Mrs. Ludlow does, but that's for another way-too-long comment)
In my view, neither Alfred, nor Tristan are inherently right or wrong. Alfred lives his life chasing glory, adulation, power, and wealth that comes with his lofty position in government. Tristan seeks a connection with nature, the world around him, and unfettered freedom to come and go as he chooses. But Alfred also wants family, the love, respect and cooperation of an obedient wife, and the "perfect" family life. Tristan similarly wants the safety, warmth, and care of a wife and family (at first with Susanna, then later with Isabel-Two). But both men discover that their personal desires are not compatible with their familial pursuits. Alfred's pursuit of Susanna, even during Samuel's life was not a noble one. Nor was his neglect of her while he rose to political power, or his initial abandonment of his father upon their disagreement. Tristan's proclivity toward criminal life was similarly counter to his eventual desire to settle and have a family as he constantly put their safety at risk, eventually resulting in the death of his wife and endangerment of the rest of the family.
All in all, both men are simply human. Both complex, both with light and dark in them, but manifested very differently. In the end, the lives lived brought them back around to each other because family is of course the strongest gravitational field there is.
If you made it to the end of this way-too-long post, I thank you!
And yes, i do have too much time on my hands.
Wasn’t Mr. Ludlow Irish?
And thank you for taking some of that time to write the best review of this art piece I have ever read. Thoroughly insightful and balanced. Plus lovely to read.
Very well said!
Idk if Alfred was really neglectful. We don't see their dating or beginning of marriage. I always imagined that she was the one who grew distant because of her depression and he tried to give her a good life best he knew how. It was probably unspoken between them that she was always in love with his brother(s) and had settled for him. Prob made him insecure. Feeling hurt is something we avoid, so even if he was neglectful I kinda don't blame him. He should have chosen another woman tho just cuz she was 2 for 3 already and that's just kinda gross 😁
Your analysis raises valid points. But it's not quite on point about Susannah.
In addition to her willingness to wait for Tristan, Susannah doesn't really have much of a place to go after Samuel's death. Her parents are both dead and we never hear about her having other relatives who can take her in. Women in her class weren't taught any practical skills for work and women hadn't even been allowed to attend college for very many years at that point. Alfred offered her a harbor and broken-hearted and broken Susannah took it. It's incredibly sad.
That’s why you should never get romantically involved with brothers !
She went through all three too. Damn
Its crazy that in the comments ppl felt sorry for her. Shes out here fucking all the brothers and is in love with the one brother that really didnt give a damn about her! LOL!
@@katierojas8066 Yeah she definitely wasn't the type of woman you settle down with.
@Star 98 How do you know she never slept with him? Were you there in the quiet times ? 🤔
Unfortunately, she didn't learn her lesson and got involved with the brothers in Sabrina and also with the King and his knight Sir Lancelot in First Knight.
Though I feel sorry for Susannah, I love how happy and serene Tristan is. Almost as if, like One-Stab said, the bear was truly asleep.
Susannah...one of movies' most tragic characters.
You always want what you can't have. But this is one heartbreaking scene.
That's my favourite scene in the whole movie. Really well-acted by all of them.
except the baby
Loved this movie. So many wonderful performances.
the way they walk up to each other... For Susannah, it is like looking into a mirror of what could have been.
Brat Pitt is too good looking, putting all of us boys to shame!
He was beautiful.
@@ritascott646
Was?
He is still alive
Not Big Rob Fitnesss
No sorry for me he isnt the prettiest...Daniel Day Lewis in young age is like an art to him...
I agree . One of the most beautiful men to ever exist
I loved him with Isabel and he seemed so at peace with his family....but still, I felt so sad for Susannah in this scene, especially when she turns back and looks at them after they walked away.
Her fault, she didn't have to get with Al she could've went back to Boston & started a new life for herself she didn't have to see Tristan or his family again.
I think she loved Samuel
@@MegaSheen15 She did say she did but when she laid eyes on his older brother that was it for her.
@@catspaw3092 But she couldn't drag herself away just in case Tristan showed up again.
@@MegaSheen15 She did until she met his wild, untamed, I do things my way, not dressed in a bow tie & button up collar brother.
Some of y’all need to understand tristan never really loved Susannah, he only used her for her beauty and pleasure and he was still coping of his brothers loss and she can move on that quick.If he truly loved her he’d make it up and go back with Susannah. I formally believe his true love is Isabel II they never really got to share their chemistry between them
Her eyes tells lots of pain and sadness
When she kneels down and says one word
Samuel?
I melt.
Im 60 and this movie was one of the best in my life time. Just solid
You can really feel Susannah's pain of seeing children with Tristan and named Samuel no less. The foreshadowing in this film is impeccable at how simplistic it is because it never gives way to the true twists and turns that you never saw coming. Brilliantly done.
Susannah loved Tristan but she never really understood him. Isabel not only loved Tristan but she also understood him. Honestly, I think Susannah loved the idea of Tristan but didn't really try to understand him. Alfred was better for her but she never gave him a chance to be a good husband to her.
She feel in love with the "qoute" bad boy the "mysterious one" but you're right Isabel loved & understood Tristan they've known each other for years. Isabel knew Tristen was a man of the wild, who freely expressed himself you saw the scene of him sitting in the meadow just relaxing, talking & riding with her. We never saw him do that with Susannah he just didn't feel comfortable with her. To me Tristan closed himself off from Susannah because she was his bros woman & here he was sleeping with her. I know he probably felt dirty, horrible, ashamed & that Sam would be so disgusted with him Tristan already got shit from Alfred for it because he too fell for her. While in jail when Susannah tried to reattach herself to him he probably felt anger at her for thinking of betraying his brother & at his brother for marrying her instead of finding someone else. He's like "Bro why did you have go after my sloppy seconds I thought you were better than that now look at the mess we're in."
@DarcyBrandon Your analysis is spot on. I think Isabel was perfect for Trisran as she was more mature as a person despite being younger in age... He was truly happy with her. Susannah would've been perfectly happy with Alfred had she given him a chance. Alfred was a man of integrity n capable of advancing in the world plus he loved her dearly... what else could you ask in a husband... IMO Samuel too wasn't ready for her as he was intimidated by her, a fact he shared with Tristan... Susannah allowed herself to be passionately drawn towards Tristan knowing that he wasn't comfortable with the idea... I'm not finding faults with anyone as to me they're all beautiful, complex characters... But Susannah and Tristan were doomed from the start primarily coz they both knew in their hearts that they fell for each other while Samuel was very much alive, a guilt which haunted Tristan. As for Alfred (though he loved Susannah too right from the start, he was cerebral enough not to express it or yield to it in his brother's life, a characteristic which points towards his self discipline, self sacrifice n integrity. That's why he could propose to her beside Samuel's grave with a clean heart.
Had Susannah allowed herself to be loved by Alfred, she'd have been a much happier woman as Tristan n Isable had become in their union. Susannah in her way destroyed herself and others around her unwittingly. I almost cry almost always when Alfred talks to Tristan at her grave, "I followed all the rules, God's, man's and you, you followed none... yet they all loved you more: father, Samuel even my own wife"... It was so poignant.
One of the best movies ever... ❤
She never understood him because Tristan never really opened himself up to her. He was a grieving broken man. He truly didn't want to hurt her but ultimately he did when he let her go and when he gave Isabel everything Susannah wanted from him. Susannah would have done anything for Tristan she changed everything about herself to try to impress him to be with.
@@queensugar4953 Yes, it's not fair to compare the two relationships in term of understanding. Isabel knew Tristan since she was young. She lived on the same farm, had a very similar life. How could they not at least relate to each other in some manner? It wasn't a magical, soulmate kind of understanding/connection. (Not that I really believe in that.) They weren't completing each other's sentences or those long, stereotypical glances. He did stare at Isabel at first, because he was shocked to see her as an adult and she was attractive. This is proven with the gift he brought back. It was for a child.
Susannah, on the other hand, just been introduced shortly Tristan before the men departed for the war. If you wanna talk about those longing glances and big smiles, that was when they both first saw each other. ESPECIALLY Tristan! Later on, they are commiserating with each other where Susannah was feeling sorrowful. It shows there was an understanding between them. A deeper connection, because they didn't know each other that long. Then he returned home from the war with PTSD, shame, guilt, despondency. Feelings he didn't know how to resolve or express. But there was an understanding and trust between them. She was able to get him to open up and allay his mourning at the grave. Which is hard to get Tristan to be candid, because he pushes everyone away when he's really upset. They were able to have a sense of calm in the storm, because they did go horseback riding together.
But of course, Tristan's emotions were mercurial. So, how do you expect the dude to be relaxing in the grass with all this, at least for long? Or in emotional numbing from all the distress, he penned, "You are dead to me as I am dead to myself"? I wouldn't blame someone if they fell out of love over that letter. The dude had serious, serious emotional issues. So, there was no room or real energy to have a healthy relationship with anyone. I wouldn't want Susannah/Tristan to be reconciled her at this point, either. It's toxic. But the point is, there was an understand and a trust between during all this. Susannah was the one who could calm him, at least for a while, and he'd reveal his raw, authentic self to.
As far as Isabel and Tristan go, their relationship started after Tristan was able to obtain a peace of mind & normalcy again. This is why he was able to relax. It wasn't so much her or them. Not to claim that Isabel didn't increase his happiness. She did. That they didn't love each other. They did. But it was the bear within was sleeping that greatly softened him. Isabel never had at time where he need to really rely on her, so I can't claim how she'd react. Maybe great, maybe not. Would she be able to get Tristan to trust her like he did with Susannah? Would she be able quell his inner animal? She may have been able to calm him a bit. But as far as quelling it for a while? No. I'd also speculate that he didn't totally trust her, because from it shown in the movie, she never sees his wild side -- his soul. At least not while they are together. So, I don't think their love is so real or special. Idk if in their discussions, that Tristan was fully open with her about everything. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. But talking is a far cry from what Susannah experienced. Tristan was a reticent person and didn't trust easily when it came to his heart.
Also, Tristan finds out that Susannah was betrothed to Alfred. He's obviously not happy. But he accepts the fact, "As it should be." Tristan had brought back that cuff for Susannah. She rejects it, as she's married & the promise was too much to bear. He insists that she keep it, as he wants her to be protected. Which yes, Tristan loved his brother, wanted to be honorable altho he wasn't always. But if you really pay attention to his words, Tristan still loved her but resigned. Shortly thereafter, he started dating Isabel because he couldn't have Susannah. Even at the jail cell, he was at first embracing of her kisses. He closes his eyes. He's not disgusted or angry. He defended Susannah by saying that she had nothing to do with Isabel's death, which she didn't! Over his own wife? Susannah was the love of his life, but due to the tragic storyline, she was the untouchable. Isabel was the back-up.
I'm not a big fan of Isabel. Not sure why. Think it may be because there was an air of arrogance to her. Susannah and Tristan's r/s definitely has issues regarding cheating. It's messed up because the men were going to war and the aftermath. That's your bro's girl! And Tristan did become more honorable. Susannah, ah.. They sure paid for the emotional cheating. I guess that's why I can be more forgiving, because loyalty is a big, big deal to me.
I think that it was definitely the wrong time for the two of them. They could've been happy as a couple but Tristan was still dealing with PTSD and losing his brother (of course, everyone also knows that Tristan is naturally 'wild'). I believe beside that Susannah was very attractive physically (strong physical attraction), Tristan started a relationship/sexual relationship with her as in to keep 'close' to the memory of his brother, Samuel, like that's the 'remnant' of what's left from his brother. In a way, Tristan was 'using' Susannah to keep 'close to memory of Samuel.' But on the other hand, he knew the social perception of what his relationship with Susannah is. So he also felt very much 'upset at himself' for being with her and for 'using' her. Of course, they had very strong chemistry sexually, one that Susannah had very much trouble relinquishing. Was it truly 'love' between him and Susannah? I think Tristan due to his guilt couldn't quite accept that it might be or it had to potential to bloom into true loving and lasting relationship. Obviously, Susannah didn't see things this way. She's always been intrigued by Tristan. I believe that she saw him even as 'exotic' and 'foreign.' The idea of being withTristan equals 'freedom' for her. You see the scene where the two of them herded cattles, Susannah hair wild, wearing pants on horses. Being with him was 'different' experience and outside the norm what men-women hierarchy and relationship should've been back then. I think she felt 'free' with him and saw Tristan as the symbol of her life of freedom. Obviously after she married Alfred, she was shuffled back to the position 'normal' to women of her breeding and status,therefore life with Alfred was stifling for her, no matter how well provided she was. No matter how great Alfred was as a husband, she didn't want that lifestyle, she was only doing it because Tristan rejected her (it's like the 'wild' has basically said 'no' to her being there). Feeling rejected she decided to go back to her previous lifestyle but obviously, she never stopped wanting certain 'freedom' from her life. I was not surprised she saw Tristan as her 'savior' in that manner and idealizing the 'love' they shared. The moment he turned her down, she saw that there was no way out for her and she would be trapped in this 'gilded jail' she's been living. So she committed suicide...
I loved Susannah's character: she was so passionate it made me want to be in love again😍
That scene when Susannah calls Samuel, bring me to tears.
That kid was so cute I wonder where he is now?
Ouch, the pain is palpable here. She couldn't even hide it.
Susannah realizes that should have been her kid. Devastated.
Susannah and Tristan giving each other them SNEAK Lover Gazes! It's obvious that some unresolved feelings are still there.
"... Samuel?" =')
That scene between her and little Sam brings me to tears, every time. It's hard to face the past.
Susanna's pain is very real .... To fall in love with a man that was not ready to return it and waiting for him to change ... Is HELL. No matter how many years go by .. the love in her heart and the future she wanted with Tristan did not fade ... Seeing Tristan finally at Peace with himself , happy and making plans in his new life and looking into the eyes of the little boy she wanted so much with Tristan ...surely had to kill her inside ... Knowing that he truly loved Isobel 2 and she would never get him back ...
Yes, what you said is true. You left out one important thing though, which is the lesson of this story - NEVER wait for somebody to change. You're more likely to be hit by a meteor than to experience somebody changing the way they are. They may change some of their ways, mind you, but their inner being and spirit will never change. Oh, and one more lesson, NEVER try to make someone to love you, or beg for them to. If true, genuine love is reciprocated, you will know it and it will last forever.
Been there
This is my favorite movie of all time especially with Aidan Quinn in it he is so handsome and very talented
When she looks at Samuel. It’s heartbreaking
One of the best movies ever made
I have to disagree (sorry Susannah fans) but I honestly think that Tristan felt nothing but lust for Susannah and nothing more but it was love at first sight for him with Isabel Two (after he returned and she was 20) so she was his REAL true love
I think you right when I first saw him and Isabel together It looked like he was finally happy he let go of the pain he had for not being able to save his brother and moved on with his life with Isabel his one and only love. =)
I kind of agree with you because Alfred was madly in love with her, and when Alfred asked Tristan if he loves Susannah or if he seduced her to despite Alfed, Tristan said that was not the case, and Alfred said to Tristan he can't make her happy and Tristan said he was gonna try if she'll have him, and Alfred said you will fail but he failed to make her happy I guess, and I guess Tristan gave up on Susannah because of the hostilty between him and his brother Alfred cause I know before Susannah came into their lives they had an unbeakable bond and when Susannah killed herself and was out of the picture they reconciled
Isabel 2 is flipping gorgeous, I was stunned when I saw the adult Isabel 2, who wouldn't fall for her? She has a nice voice too and has that 'exotic' factor.
I think he really loved Susannah but felt guilty because he promised to look after Samuel for her and their relationship was also the cause of Alfred's departure. With Isabel 2, there was peace. It brought everyone together and no one was fighting over anyone.
Then you are in fantasy land.
The novella has Susannah and Tristan NOT Isabel .
Hollywood is trying to promote their huge age gap which at the time this was set was becoming less existent because people KNEW it was wrong and that under 25s were developing.
He came back to marry SUSANNAH and was testing her when he told her to move on.
She had put up a facade of being in love. Her marriage is a sham.
Tristan meets Isabel a few times and just married her to have children. He did not love her. Love blossoms. Susannah and tristan had the right kind of love. Isabel was nothing more than an incubator.
They also showed the audience her arrogant side. Hollywood is very creepy and usually does this sort of thing. as a child saying you're going to marry a man who is your dad's age? yes it must be true.
And then we have the bootlegging. He did not love his family because he didn't care how he got money. He knew people were after him. And then at the end he leaves his children for Alfred to have.
You need to examine the film and realize what HOLLYWOOD was promoting and what was actually love.
I really dislike people who saw Isabel for a bit. They slept together, had children and then she died. There was no depth to that love.
He did it to spite Susannah and a huge sign was to have kids and name one Samuel. the way he looks at her when they meet at the fair says it all.
It should have been more like the notebook.
It would have been more successful and memorable had he NOT married a child and had children.
the second half ruins itself. The novella itself has her even younger.
I find it very creepy that people advocate someone developing to marry a middle aged man.
Susannah was the true beauty in this film but she was being hurt wherever she went. Isabel was just a baby maker and insignificant character. Hollywood messed up.
And isabel had psychological issues. In reality psople KNOW it is not love. Men like him just bide their time and trade women in. It is not love.
This is one of the scenes where Julia Ormond shows what an excellent actress she is. She's bravissima in showing an enormous gamma of emotions especially the ones connected to sadness. She has an enormous sensitivity. Thumbs up to Brad Pitt too. Apart from being absolutely gorgeous, his acting is incredible. Beautiful film! 🧡
Her name is Julia Ormond, but I agree 100% with everything else you said.
@@monmothma3358. Thanks, I've corrected her name. 👍
Poor susanna she can barely keep it together here.one of my favorite movie
shes an amazing actress
Susannah is angry because Isabelle gave Tristan what she can't (or couldn't) and that Tristan gave Isabelle what he couldn't give her. She's very bitter about that.
She’s not bitter at all only heartbroken.
@@kerrymillar1267 I know she's heartbroken.
Susannah is more heartbroken than bitter about it. She kills herself in despair because she never regained the sense of freedom she felt while she was with Tristan.
It's really Tristan who is the rock that everyone breaks themselves against.
Love the one you're with. Alfred loved Susanna; too bad she couldn't give him the love he deserved.
sometimes u cant choose to stop loving someone and they re is no more room for someone else
BellyJewel Deborah
Alfred knew that she would always love him. And he still got with her.
@@Ashley-jv8vj He even said he knew she didn't love him just like he reminded his dad about his marriage to his mom. But Alfred no doubt kept hoping Susannah would fall in love with him which she didn't She should've just took her ass back to Boston & saved herself & the remaining bros the heartache. In the book her parents are alive & they loved Alfred but didn't like Tristan.
We don't choose who we love, it's both biology & psychology. Look up attachment theory.
Love can't be forced. She settled for Alfred, as Tristan settled for Isabel Two. Alfred thought that he could change her heart by being the good guy. He knew she didn't love him romantically. Susannah used Alfred, and he allowed it. She shouldn't have done that. Selfish. Alfred and Susannah should've never been together.
This is one of the most painful parts of this awesome movie!
Imagine for a few moments. Susannah sees Tristans son for the first time. Susannah can't have children for some reason. Tristan has a son with another lady and the son looks like her first husband who died tragically in the war. Hard to take.
MrRo330 Samuel was never her husband. He was killed in the war before they could marry.
@ssuz1 I agree......I felt sorry for Alfred.....his wife never loved him the way he loved her from the moment he saw her.
This was a huge slap in the face. Poor Susanna
She feels too much sorry for herself. In this life, best to learn to be grateful for what you got.
Just one of the saddest scenes I have seen in a movie
@QueenbohemianQ I totally agree. She had no parents, no brothers and sisters, loses the love of her life to another, and then she marries Alfred with whom she bares no children. She seemed like a good, caring, motherly type woman who lost even less than what she had to begin with.
@woodburygurl123 : Susannah loved Triston with all her heart. She realized it later that Triston was no singing bird but an eagle which belonged to the skies. Perhaps she married Alfred without loving him only so that she could still be connected to Triston. Like they say... a heart wants what it wants.
susannah's character had a great impact on me that after watching the movie, i swore not to name my future daughter after her. julia ormond played her so well that i can imagine any other actress to portray susannah.
Susannah putting on a happy front that she’s happy for Tristan and Isabel II but on the inside she’s burning with rage, jealousy and sadness that she’s not Little Samuel’s Mama and Tristans Number One😢😢😢😢
Not rage and jealousy, just pure heartbreak.
@@MaevaStardust. Well that too.
Had susannah have waited all those years and he came back, she would have been in mad competition with isabel. Isabel even stated as a child that one day, she would marry Tristan. Her native intuition already knew the future
I see her pain. But also protective disdain from Isabel II, directed at Susanna. She absolutely emanates it when Susanna leans in & peeks at the new baby. There is so many undercurrents for them all; brilliant directing.
Isabelle 2 called it when she was just a kid. She let Suzanna know that she was going to marry Tristan and she did ❤️❤️
So bittersweet
I feel bad for Susana Tristan didnt loved her enough to stay with her, and she could never moved on from him, he found somebody right away and forget about her, Man can do that easylly in real live, woman get atached harder and is more difucult for us.
not true. It all depends on the person.
yamsnz I dont think is a rule that happends 100 % of the cases of course, I do believe for my own experience, and other people that im close experiences that woman are the ones who tend to hold on harder, I do have a male friend who got depressed for more than a year after her girlfriend leave hin for another man, and it was really hard for him to move on, I know man have feelings too. lol.
+cloudwalker08 he did love her. Isabel was a rebound. He did not stay to raise his own kids with her which just proves it. He tried to spite susannah and even named his son samuel which was susannahs idea.
+cloudwalker08 1)"time goes by and we feel safe too soon."This shows two things. a) He is basically stating that Tristan jumped into thinking he was "HAPPY".
He is saying that Tristan is actively SEEKING a false, peaceful happiness, unlike the tumultuous love for Susannah, that will not tax his nerves. Everyone wants that but it is seldom obtainable!
Tristan had MISSED his one chance at happiness with Susannah, and in seeking it with Isabel Two, had found only a small part of it, that was ultimately false, not the REAL LOVE of his life, but rather, someone comfortable to him and approved of by his relatives.
2) He had ptsd and knew that he would not be the same unless he found some clarity in life. When he wrote the letter to Susannah, I believe it was out of love. He knew he was not in the right state of mind and didn't think he would return home and if he did, he know that he, at least in that state, couldn't make her happy the way she deserved. The note was written to free her, so she could officially be happy, which I believe he did out of selflessness only coming from true love, not because he truly let her go. This is proven when Tristan returns the second time with obvious intentions of marrying her because now in sane mind, he believed they would be able to be together.
He even goes to speak with her, not his brother and when he sees her in the garden, you can see it in his face how much he still loves her and even more so as he explains to her the reasoning behind sending her the bracelet while persuading her to keep it. I believe he married Isabelle two because he was lonely and while he cared very deeply for her, I don't feel his love for her was the same as that for Susannah.I believed he still loved her despite knowing they would never be together. When he receives the news she has passed, you can tell beyond doubt he loved her and that it broke his heart
Putting another's happiness above your own is true love in its purest form.
3)His relationship with isabel seemed very platonic and even alfred sees how they are more like siblings. There is no passion there. Tristan was never like he was before. And that was the aim too! They changed his character for the worse and he lost his wildness and passion for life.
The tristan character overall was contradictory. I know many women married to a real tristan and he isn't like the movie made him to be. Nor are those men attracted to children lol. Isabel had issues and I found it wrong for the writers to have included her. This could still have been the tragedy they wanted but it sadly didn't flow.
I suggest you watch a river runs through it. It is a great film and James's music would have fared better there.
+Coco Pops thanks for your great point of view, this subject is on my mind a lot since I had a man who basically went away from me and never even knew why, after found out he was with other beeing happy, so many things unsolved and when I saw this scene I could feel her pain , seeking for understanding is what can bring us peace, learn how to be able to put ourselves in the other person shoes in this case,s and you explained Tristan position wich makes total sence to me . I do remember how he looked at her in the garden he wanted to come back to her.
@MultiGem. I felt sad for both the women. They both died for him in their own way. As One Stab puts it towards the end of the story: He was a rock they broke themselves against however much he tried to protect them
When she looked at Samuel, I can feel her pain. 😭
Kool scene, brothers meeting up after not seeing each other for awhile, not much conversation but the looks in their faces says more than words
the casts are amazing, even the child actors! must say Susannah and Isabella are so beautiful
I will always believe that Susannah's love for Tristan was so intense that it manifested itself as an evil karma that caused Isabel Two to die so violently.
Wow! Deep.
That is called jealousy.
Oh no question! Plus when Tristan is in jail she admits she wanted Isabel Two to die! And you say love but that woman lusted after Tristan, you can see that while she’s still engaged to a breathing Samuel. That’s why she says maybe I even wanted Samuel to die. To me that was her admitting I’ve wanted you since day 1. She was hoping to build a happily ever after with Tristan on the foundation of that lust & shared sorrow over Samuel’s death. That’s why I love the married life montage between Tristan & Isabel Two. Love with the right person is like medicine, but lust will eventually make you sick.
@@alexisannaaguirre5364 Yup Susannah didn’t love Tristan, she was obsessed with him. To truly love someone is to want them to be happy even if it’s not with you. Tristan just used Susannah yet immediately wife’d Isabel 2 because that’s the woman he truly loved. Susannah should have left that family alone when Samuel died. She took advantage of Tristan’s vulnerability when he was mourning Sam’s death and tried to do so again when Isabel 2 died. I’m glad he rejected her obsessive ass, but wish she had gotten help.
Una buena película qué no me cansaré de ver 💟🌹
Suzanna and Isabelle met when she first came to the ranch with Samuel. She bonded with Isabelle and cared for her. She also, helped her in her studies as a little girl.
Agent J: "better to have loved and lost then never to have loved at all, right?"
Agent K: *glares back* "Try it"
Each time I watch this movie I hope that Tristan comes back before Susannah's marriage with Alfred or that Susannah really waits for Tristan forever. But it never happens.
Part of me believed that if Susannah actually waited, Tristan would likely return to her and they would reconnect. But the narrator said something about him leaving for many years, so it's probably like a decade (hence Isabel was a grown up when they met again)..I think by his last letter, it's practically a break up letter, so Susannah knew that if she waited for Tristan to make up his mind, she wouldn't have a chance to have children (she wanted children). Since she was still in love with Tristan, I think it's hard for her to just leave anew and started with another beau, she chose to marry Alfred because he's connected to Tristan.
love hurts...😥
Poor Susannah.
Sorry to the Susannah fans out there but no one held a gun to her head and forced her to marry his brother. She said so herself "Forever turned out to be too long" - she can't expect him to sit around pining for her.
I don't disagree with you. But the tragedy is that even had Susannah waited for Tristan, Alfred was right - it's doubtful Tristan would ever have married Susannah. She loved him far more than he could allow himself to love her.
No matter how anyone slices it, Tristan did not treat Susannah well. The kindest thing he actually did for her was to send his devastating letter telling her to move on. She tried, half heartedly. But her love for Tristan was ultimately her undoing.
Alfred has such a nice voice
I'm sorry, but I think the opposite. Susannah was like spell nd he ran away to get rid off it(though, of course, he was a human being, so he loed her at the time), bur when he got home again, he got it being completely changed and while still had warm feelings for Susannah, who he loved was Isabel Two.
i think he did at one time but he moved on and found true happiness that completed him with a wife he adored and two wonderful sons
Alfred was always my favourite brother
0:35 and pause. You can literally see their faces say 'this is the most attractive couple i have ever seen. jfc'
I completly agree. I can't help, but think of myself when I read what you wrote about her character.
Forever isn't too long to wait for the one you love.
Forever is too long when you've lost them
Oh wow... Beautiful
Karina’s reaction is great- shock, then happiness to see an old friend.
I believe neither Tristan or Alfred were right for Susannah. The one who was perfect for her was Samuel. After Samuel died in the war, she should have left and move on with her life elsewhere. Her relationships with Tristan and Alfred only brought pain to her, the brothers and the enitre family. I am sure she would have recovered from the pain of losing Samuel elsewhere and would have had the chance to live a happy life. Despite the tragedy, this is a really nice movie to watch!.
Susannah needed to come to terms that she needed to love herself more than a man who she looked up to. He obviously didn’t deserve her love beyond admiration, especially when he only lusted after her- never allow yourself to be used by a man just to lie to yourself that you can change his feelings to love you. It’s admirable that she knew what she wanted but it became her weakness when she couldn’t let go, when she placed what she wanted on a higher pedestal than herself. How could she enjoy life when she chose to feel sentimental about these things she chose to value when she can let go. Her loyalty is commendable but it’s more damaging to herself only. She can choose who she desires to be loyal to and it’s important for women like her to respect themselves. She is no less than the couple just because they got everything she wanted. Susannahs life was spared from their tragedy. I would never wish for tristans life story. She needs to not think so highly of just another man. Just because he made her feel so special once- because Susannah just needs to put herself out there more and not commit- and not wait for anyone. She needs to free herself so she can find her real happiness.
They all suffered so much!
Damn this scene and the acting was phenomenal. How could Tristan do that to Susannah? You can feel her pain. In the end he looses his wife and Susannah. This movie is a romance but the most sad and tragic one i ever saw.
Love Karina Lombard(Tristan's wife)!
The only two people in this movie who cried alot was Tristan and Susannah
I originally thought she was sad looking at Samuel because he reminded her of her true love. I was a kid when I first watched this and didn’t put together what she said at the jail scene about wishing BOTH Isabel and Samuel dead so she could have Tristan. She might have thought fondly of Samuel, but her tears were envy and longing. Makes me dislike her even more.
Isabel is son sweet and empathic towards sussanah , not jalous at all
Esta parte me rompio el corazon! Triste 😥
Maybe top 10 in my list of greatest acting