Are Onewheel Batteries Dangerous To Repair?
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- čas přidán 5. 04. 2022
- In a recent video, Future Motion may have misrepresented the reality of independent repair, and also may have continued using scare tactics to convince users that all repairs and servicing of battery-related issues outside of the manufacturers are inherently dangerous. In this video, I try to illustrate that lithium-ion batteries are very much all related, and similar in their design philosophy and function. For this reason, technicians are repair persons outside of the manufacturer can indeed be qualified and able to service PEVs and their batteries. It's important to be fair and realistic about lithium ion batteries, and understand that they carry with them risks whether or not they are OEM batteries from large factories, or hand built packs from qualified builders.
Currently, the new Onewheel GT does not allow any end user or independent service person to replace the internal battery. The device breaks itself if the battery is unplugged, and can no longer function unless it is sent back to the manufacturer. The claim for this is safety, but that claim is not based in the reality of servicing personal/light electric vehicles.
Video mentioned: • What If Your Battery E...
#righttorepair #onewheel - Věda a technologie
I felt it was appropriate for me to speak on a topic that I have experience with, and that's servicing batteries. I simply don't have the knowledge to comment on the other issues present in the recent statement video published by Future Motion. I highly recommend Jake Leary's video where he responds to the other topics mentioned: czcams.com/video/9i1cP9Nk3Jc/video.html
Also, please feel free to check out a recent video of a safety device test, where I explain in part, some ways that batteries fail: czcams.com/video/CXXBDq8vp2A/video.html
Hey thanks for the shout out! This video was incredibly well done. It’s unfortunate that FM says that people with your experience aren’t capable of working on their boards.
hey wait do you have a onewheel shop Because i generaly drive 3hours down to brian at one stop but your in NY it would be much closer
@@ColesReptileStuff I have mostly stopped taking major Onewheel repairs, unfortunately. These days I just offer battery rebuilds for them, since I work mostly on repairing eskates and scooters and building batteries.
@@TheBoardGarage alright, are you willing do do a diagnostic on a different board with possible water damage
@@ColesReptileStuff Sure. Feel free to email me, info@mariocontino.com
Only if you replace them with packs from unitpackpower...
FM knows they messed up! keep up the pressure. The FM apology was a blatant lie, and any onewheel owner who’s changed their tire knows it. apology’s with lies don’t count for anything. I’m glad they recognize their is a problem but they are still just on step one of repairing the relationship with the community
Far too late for many, especially as its just lies again. Hardly anyone in our group of 330+ in UK has a GT. Many cancelled pre orders and have updated to cbxr and are talking vesc now. Bye bye FM. Right to repair and continuing support are too important when you spend premium money. Shipping to US just isn't an option, when the planet is dying and the cost of living is getting high. FM don't care. Nor do we now. They had their chance
Great video. 👍
I was annoyed when FM started serial number locking on the XR 4209 models, that was bad enough. That is a bad practice.
But this new low... the tamper bricking in the GT, was the last straw for me. "If the owner tampers with their board, we destroy it hahahaha"
That is sleazy, immoral and just downright RUDE to their customers.
FM has gone from bad to worse, out of greed and terrible decisions by the upper management. 😕
It certainly seems to be that way.
Think the bricking is going to be labelled illegal soon or FM comes to its senses without a lawsuit. Also thinking there is a lot of brain power in the Onewheel community to find a work-around.
✔
The problem is not whether or not they're dangerous. The problem is that it should be on ME as to what risks I'm willing to take regarding repairs, replacement, or modification. And it's not just about being able to deal with it myself, I should also have the choice of who I am willing to trust it with if I choose not to take said risk myself. We went through the issues we're having in the tech industry in regards to right to repair decades ago with the automotive industry. And no one can tell me that repairing a OW, smartphone, etc etc is overall as complicated or dangerous as automotive repair can be.
I agree, Captain Planet.
It's not remotely the same as a vehicle that's the point. Most people don't even know what a OW is and probably don't have a very positive position towards electric scooters for a variety of reasons. I can totally see their point that if they have OW's burning up because of some 3rd party battery they aren't liable directly but it would seriously bring negative media to our sport that we all enjoy. It's pretty simple stuff here. Do I think they should offer an OEM battery that we can install ourselves so that we don't have to pay for shipping both ways, yes I do.
When will u stop doing this Craig? None of your remarks make any sense. Are u working for FM? What is your connection with FM? Can you be honest about it and clarify it?
Depending on your use, your GT battery back WILL NEED replacing. Would u rather ship it to FM and pay $1000,- or do it yourself and put a new pack in for $ 500,-?
Im living in the Netherlands and sending it back to FM is no option. What about the riders in New Zealand or Australia? They would pay $1500,- just for shipping.
Is there any device on earth which doesn’t have replacement Li-ion packs for sale? No!
@@devrim1134 🎯✅
Ty❗
Mario, you forgot to mention that batteries installed by FM have been blessed by Kyle himself and installed by former NASA engineers who were recruited because they wanted a bigger challenge then working on spaceships
🧢
Thank you for doing this! Videos like yours are critical for helping the community to better understand the issues and to see that it’s not always as simple as being “completely safe” or “always dangerous”.
Impressive. Having watched future motions' CEO's recent video attempting to address issues being raised in the onewheel community made me more mad than glad because of it's vagueness, conjecture and lack of supporting evidence, watching your video felt like a relief that the truth is out there and being propagated. Thank you for making this video!
Another excellent video; you're always on point and straightforward. I certainly don't appreciate the condescending tone that Future Motion has taken to their new, current, and possibly former customers, and I definitely despise the fear mongering about how "wrenching" on your batteries may destroy your home. In my opinion, if they have taken a step towards working with independent repair shops just by putting out an impromptu video, it was a lateral one. They did not hit on any of the real topics, and there was no assurance that the anti consumer stance they have taken would be addressed.
Obviously I don't believe scaring and gaslighting your customer base is part of a viable business model.
Okay well first things first, how the heck did i just learn so much in 15 mins?!?! 😝 Good video, people need to know things like this so they can understand what makes there PEV’s function. Especially with whats going on at Future Motion/Onewheel, a video like this simplifies the chaotic idea FM keeps trying to push onto everyone of ”our stuff is to complicated to work on,so only we can do it. ” Appreciate the knowledge and thanks for taking time to make videos like these 🙏🤙
IMO (for what it’s worth) a proven, trusted voice in the community. Thanks for speaking up, with legit content, for those like me who don’t have a platform. 🤙🏽
Thank you Mario, you're doing very important work in this space. Educating consumers as to the importance of allowing right to repair is essential if we hope Future Motion is to change their ways.
Well said , FM needs to work towards a solution and not contribute to the problem
Seems to me if FM really cared about safety of repairs and battery replacements they'd sell OEM batteries (at a reasonable price) so all someone would have to do is unplug the old battery and plug in a new battery.
This is really good Mario... Thank you
If any arguement could get thru... This would be the one.
Articulated and concise.
Great details in the areas where you are a subject matter expert. Thanks Mario🙏
That's some quality content here. All hail to Mario !
Great video bro. Love how you are teaching us about how to install a battery.
Occasionally I hear a hint of Ron Swanson in your voice. And I love it.
Thank you for breaking this down. I had so many questions prior to this video. ✌🏾
Great stuff as always thank you Mario!
FM likes to pretend they have some crazy super-secret sauce in their batteries, but at the end of the day, it's still just a li-ion battery pack.
Another excellent and informative video. It's a solid shame that FM is taking the approach that "it's too hard for normal people to understand anything", and continuing to refuse to work the the community. I understand and appreciate their concerns, especially in light of the Hoverboard fiasco, but the level of condesention and dismissal that is coming from FM is frustrating. I enjoy their products, I don't like (nor trust) their company, which is a shame.
Been waiting for this :)
I always learn something from your videos. Keep it up!
I don’t know how this Mario dude got that battery out. It took me 3 house fires and leveling my neighborhood before I could successfully remove it but then the only thing left of the module was a pile of ashes.
Well-timed video, thanks for the informed perspective. Including the examples of other PEVs was a good choice. Future Motion’s product, while highly enjoyable, is not made of voodoo magic.
Thanks for making this video!
Super informative and a great watch.
Thanks for this Mario, I love your perspective on this topic. I've been trying to stay relatively neutral and open-minded in this situation, hoping that FM is just a young (growing) company that is having to navigate the production of one of the most unique products in this space. I think your points on battery replacement are more than valid, and make perfect sense. FM should allow users and distributors to sell and replace whole packs, with the potential in the future to open up a service model where skilled individuals like yourself are authorized to do full battery repairs. Trying to see the current issue from both vantage points, I have a feeling for liability reason FM decided to lock users out of their boards mostly to deal with a fringe minority of DIYer's who don't know what they are doing. FM has eluded to working on a distributed service model in the road map, and I hope this is something they could roll out sooner than later which might just begin to address the battery service issue or reverse the bricking of boards. Ultimately I just want the community to keep more optimism, and hopefully they'll come through for us. As for the other issues, well, its really too bad and we'll just have to wait and see. I'm cool with getting GT next year.
Thank you! I'm excited to learn more about li-ion batteries and stuff like that!!
Great vid, very informative!
Great stuff, Mario!
This is a great breakdown.
Can you please do the same breakdown on the Pint X and the so called battery flaw other people seen to have experienced with cramped batteries and bad connectors.
Is the cramped space pinching cables? Or are you referring to the weak charging connector burning itself out?
You said this extremely well, and you said exactly what I would say. Thanks for this video, so the next times I can just link to this video instead of writing a 5 paragraph comment that nobody's gonna read lol
Thank you so much for bringing this down to earth. Now maybe we can inform some people and get some laws changed.
Quick question. Is it necessary to have a fuse on a OneWheel XR battery. I am repairing a cbxr battery with a blown fuse, and I’m unable to find the same fuse available, so I’m considering just bypassing it. Thanks, and great video!
Could you use a bench power supply/another battery set to the same voltage as the gt battery and use that to power the BMS by hooking to the back of the xt power connector while you disconnect the gt battery? And if you unhook the balance cable and hook in the new battery would the bms accept it or did fm add more code to prevent that? Have you heard of anyone trying this?
on the gt model can you dump the contents of the chip where the info is stored and reprogram the chip?
So out of curiosity. If someone did want to replace batteries on a onewheel gt. Couldn't you just cheat the connector and add the same voltage with a adjustable power supply or something to hold the power to the BMS while you repair the battery or replace them when you reconnect the battery to take off the temporary voltage?
Because you would only be adding amp hours correct? Or does the BMS monitor that. I know I saw a video about an XR if you put a larger pack in it would still only use the stock amp hours then power off. But you could power it on again and go for awhile.
Just an idea.
So you're saying the repair would have been even easier if FM sold replacement batteries...
Hi Mario, I'd like your take on a battery question. I'm one of the fortunate GT owners, no issues to date, thoroughly enjoying the board. I really like the 90% charge shutoff feature but I wondered how often you would recommend charging to 100%. My usual rides allow me to get usually 2 sometimes 3 rides before needing to recharge the board. I did charge to 100% when recieved 1.5wks 100+mi ago. Thx
Thanks Mario! 👍
Good video!
Speaking about Onewheel batteries: can you give details on the Onewheel GT Specs (v, ah, wh)?
Thanks!
Do you know why CBXR battery requires certain onewheel firmware version?
Do you sale batteries for one wheel pine?
Amazing informative video here
MHO is...all PEV products should include the explosion-proof bags, which should be able to securely store the size of the PEV, when ordering the purchases from those companies.
Thanks for this Mario, we all know FM is full of shit, but this video explaining why, is extremely important
Mario, great video. Curious of a good way to contact you or where you’re located.. have a one wheel xr+ that just stopped working on me, so power up on plug in with charger, but shows zero percent. Suspecting water water damage
Unfortunately I don’t do FM Onewheel repairs at the shop anymore. Only services I offer are tire changes and bearing changes. For repairs, I only work on boards running VESC based controllers, or from companies that make parts available, which isn’t the case for FM Onewheels.
If you’d like to reach out, you can reach me at info@mariocontino.com
Mario Continuo do you think people like yourself and repair shops will come up with a work around or replacement for the GT battery eventually?
I'm not sure. My hope is that the Balance App in VESC becomes tuned enough that I don't have to care about the proprietary PCBs inside my GT.
Such great product with an amazing community, and then there's the company behind it.
Hi there, just wanted to ask, can a XR battery be put straight into a pintx?
It cannot.
I guess the safety play is about how do we stall the process of right to repair longer, and they will figure out and pay anyone to say/confuse things to stall the process along as possible.
You actually were able to clear the code on the GT after disconnecting the battery. But again, that’s no longer the case after the firmware update.
Can you test or replace a broken Onewheel V1 BMS? I'm currently bypassing it to make my board work. But understand I should really be using the BMS ??
I don't do component level repairs, unfortunately. However you can try to source any 16s LiFePo BMS unit that fits, or replace the pack with a 14s Li-ion battery, which would fall within the voltage range.
I get that the Pint X is literally just a Pint with a bigger battery and a different enclosure, but why do you think the disconnecting battery issue is specific to the GT? The Pint X launched at the same time and it just seems strange that if they are trying to enforce this that they only did it to one model.
Cheaper to produce.. cheaper to just program a $3 micro controller, it only holds a very small amount of code though, even using shift registry.. thats my theory though ive almost zero exp with a pint
I hope FM see this. They think it's rocket science to change out a battery that is plug and play. Only they have the expert to do that. lol
Can you make a video on the rebuild of the pint battery ?
A rebuild is very dangerous and u’ll need to know about electronics and have special tools, especially a spot welder. If u would still like to try, go and have a look at Lee Wright’s channel first or Fungineers.
i got a new xr and gae my old onne to a sister and before my cbxr even came i had a failure i have been onewheeling since 2016 that was the first time
Mario, it has been a long time since you made some riding videos with narration.
the batteries can be dangerous when they fail, which is why they should be easy to replace.
BINGO!! They could literally be swappable plug and play, how many double a batteries have you ever exploded ? I'm betting zero. Cartridge packs with a proper gasket seal would be 100% swappable
@@MrDmadness None, I've also never exploded an 18650, which their batteries are essentially made of. Nor have I exploded any lithium ion battery in any of my small electronic devices or laptops that I"ve owned. Nor have I ever exploded a lipo I use for my 1/10th scale RC car.
Can the batteries catastrophically fail if you screw up? yes. But if you take reasonable precautions they're quite safe. This is nothing more than fear mongering by FM to justify their anti consumer practices which are all about control and money, don't believe the safety lie.
@@mkuhnactual I've ridden since v1.. im well versed in not trusting fms word. :)
hey, you have a great night!
Careful, we don’t want to upset an entity that produced a product that we ourselves tied sentimental value to and therefore resulting in assigning emotional significance to the inanimate object in the hopes that instead of receiving the usual treatment similar to an abusive spouse, we can hope we don’t upset them enough to maybe hopefully one day create business ties! But in the mean time, the product creating entity didn’t create this bruised ego, I just fell down the stairs, or a box fell off the cupboard, or FM was just drunk and didn’t mean it!
if FM actually cared about their customers and the "future" of their company, they would be more supportive of good practices as you show in this video. at its current state, i don't see FM lasting in the long run. you cant even get replacement parts for older boards, unless your somehow lucky and they dont charge you the same cost or nearly the cost of a new board.
How many onewheels have went on fire due to external batteries? Also, I think most ppl just want to replace it with an OEM battery. Right?
"we don't want people wrenching their batteries and opening up a portal to another dimension summoning the dark lord"
👏🏼⚡⚡👏🏼
I really wanted the GT when it was announced, but after the ghosting and the DOA and finally the BMS disconnect issues, I wont be getting one, ill get the pint x as I have repaired my pint to hell and back and when it died a few months ago there was no brining it back. Long story shor I know how how to repair a pint.
Thanks Mario. In your opinion, why does FM take this stupid stance on batteries when most other e-skates are now offering swappable batteries?
Well with the new firmware update we can no longer fix/change our battery. We have to send the board back to FM for repairs which is usually accompanied with a hefty charge. I’ve read about customers being charged $600 for a repair that didn’t fix the problem. I’m all for Right to Repair and will no longer be supporting Future Motion. Once my GT died on me with 28% left I ordered a FloatWheel. I no longer ride my GT and won’t until I convert it to vesc.
Are you going to use Apple branded sand for the onewheel batteries?
Or would Apple get super mad?
anyone whos had 80s/90s toys knows how to change a battery..... to insult us and charge a high fee to do it..... just makes me not into buying products that dont have a right to repair your own device plan....plain and simple. vote with your money folks!
If the BMS and battery are using a serial handshake to authenticate then that would mean the battery has an identification chip within it somewhere.
Wouldn't it be easy to just install that chip onto another battery? I'm no expert just using my logic.
If u were to, the issue would be doing the transfer itself, if it loses power as if it gets disconnected it bricks itself. You would need to keep it powered the entire time which would be insanelyyy hard
@@ravenshaw1514 ahhhhhh. Ok understood it wrong. I was thinking it would brick with any 3rd party battery but it bricks if it loses power period. Thats shady.
Nonetheless, i can imagine myself doing this using a whole lot of bypass wires to keep power. Ive done a lot of sketchiness before.:)))
It's a read only code, like the cmos battery on your pc, or laptop ( laptop battery in this case) if 6our computers cmos battery dies ( typically a small watch battery on the pcb ) it doesn't keep the clock logging, which leads to compilation errors... same here.. no battery power = no code memory.. it also communicates with serial encryption also apparently, which would mean the battery is chipper with a binary core that has to match the controller so a long LONG line of a character like
1110100011110001010100000011111
Must match
this video just made me think: can you use a lithium battery cell as a rocket engine?
Probably not worth the non-controllable risk and after effects of the highly toxic emissions. Note that the can itself ruptured, causing the flame to also travel backwards.
The answer is yes! Because they made it so it bricks your board and you have to pay hazmat shipping back to their place if you simply unplug your battery because they are total control Yatzis
what is the cheapest way to get my Plus up from 5mi to 10mi range? no, i dont want anything sticking out like Ego batteries strapped to the fenders lol
They'd make more money if they designed OEM batteries to be swappable (not hot swap) by customers. This problem shouldn't exist.
No. Is the answer to the video title. However, if you don't feel comfortable, any computer / electronic repair shop is capable of doing it. Why does this require a 17 minute video. FM is in the wrong, it really is that simple.
This company is ridiculous, so in comparison if I change the lithium battery in my motorcycle or remove the ECU my warranty should be voided. These parts are modular, the battery pack is self contained with 2 connectors. PC enthusiasts have been building rigs for years, this generation has become savvy to the tech it is born into. Spend truckloads of money to handicap repair centers and individuals from repairing or improving a product they OWN. Forget the ghosting issue which seems wide spread and can and will do actual harm.
why the fuck did they wire the colors opposite?
They decide to spend resources for a video on how to place fricking rail guards on a gt instead of showing us "dumb people" how to replace a battery safely.
Lost absolutely all respect for FM I’ve completely ditched playing along with their silly games still love the product tho. I’ve begun collecting modding them as if the company is dead tbh now all of my boards Are better… jeez I guess it does help not to be a sheep😅
Since most of the people that will reply probably won't read all this, feel free to call me a boot licker and move on.
Since the XR and GT have the same motor but go from 2HP to 3HP that is a 50% power gain coming from??? The battery? So if upping the volts of the battery gets more power, is it possible that "not safe to replace" isn't about you puncturing a battery but more about them not wanting you to create a 40 mph onewheel that someone does more than break an arm or collar bone on. Sure other PEV makers don't care but are they based out of the US and assembled in the US and subject you getting sued in the US?
I do not think Free Motion went about it the right way. I think it is possible they are growing faster than they are capable of handling. If the company continues to grow and the userbase with it. They will have to address the only one repair center in the world. How they handle that could be just them running more repair centers, specifically overseas, where they probably will eventually need another distribution center (if they want to keep the assembled in USA part). Just my opinion, but what I would do would be allow places to apply to become authorized repair locations.
Like what was said in the video right to repair does not equal right to modify, and they GT batter killswitch is probably to prevent battery mods not swapping a battery if you apply a little common sense. Personally I don't care if you modify your board and take it off a cliff and die, as long as your family doesn't sue Future Motion for your actions. But this is the United States and little Timmy will break an arm and mom will sue FM, seriously how many pending lawsuits do they already have? Which is exactly what was called for with Ghosting issue.
Go ahead and tell me how stupid I am for not just saying FFM. I expect nothing less from the onewheel community.
If they actually were, the GT should never be sold. They gotta make up their minds. Or try to prove to us somehow they have even 1 IQ point greater than that of a sleep deprived cabbage
If there too dangerous to repair it’s too dangerous to buy and ride ☺️ f onewheel
I get a chuckle when people can't see FM's concern with 3rd party batteries. Lol. Like give your head a shake man. Do I think they could sell approved OEM batteries so that we can install ourselves? Sure, that makes sense.
There's no actual evidence that a rebuilt or non OEM equivalent battery is any more dangerous or less viable than an OEM battery.
If their concern was real, they'd sell OEM batteries. They don't because it's not about safety.
If you are an expert in rebuilding Li ion packs, then there is no problem. I’m sure most of us won’t cut open a pack and rebuild it, but I would appreciate to be able to buy a pack and install it myself. If FM won’t sell these packs, some other company will and I’m sure the bricking of the GT will either be solved or reversed by FM because it’s illegal to boobytrap a device. I’m glad Louis Rossman is on top of this 😀
@@TheBoardGarage of course there is you just don't have any evidence 🤷
@@Yielar1 Do you?
I'm early
Huh... You obviously didn't replace them in your home, then you would have gone booooooom
It's a battery.... Nice 17 minutes of blah
Hi Mario. I have some questions about my eskate I just purchased. Would you be willing to chat over WhatsApp? I’m thinking I might want to use your eskate service.