A HEATED DEBATE on Brexit, Gender and More With Piers Morgan
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2022
- Piers Morgan is joined by a stellar panel consisting of playwright and author Bonnie Greer, Conservative author Douglas Murray and TalkTV international editor Isabel Oakeshott to discuss everything from Brexit, to the Rwanda policy, to gender identity and more. Some heated moments between the panel result as they challenge each other over a do-over of the Brexit vote, de-gendering language and more. Bonnie also discusses an unnamed family member going through a gender transition and explains that the issue is "complicated".
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I've yet to hear Bonnie Greer make an insightful, original pronouncement on literally any subject.
She thinks so as well.
She said give the train drivers the rise they want, they deserve it.
THEN said she knows nothing about them.
Then what the hell is she talking about. Its as though she got bored and wanted to get to the next debate
A bit like Diane Abbott having a box ticker that is barely coherent and has nothing useful to say.
a whole lot of drab! another lefty with too much THC in their system?
were the name bonnie come from ?????
My aunt died from breast cancer and my grandmother form ovarian cancer. I find it insulting to their memory that the NHS is actively removing any reference to women and diseases specific to women.
Omg! Insanity.
I honestly love Douglas’ little smirks and wide eyes! It kills me!!
😂
He's pompous,arrogant, and a jerk, I'm glad he's on our side.
"In the promotion of trans rights, to fairness and equality, there are new inequalities and unfairnesses being creatted." This is such an excellent quote Piers, well done.
Quite.
I want this woman as my boss. Im sure the company would be bankrupt within the year but im pretty sure In that period I could get her to pay me 200k for driving my bus 45 mins twice a week.
Commercial airline pilots nearly get 200k after 20 years so, and they are effectively driving large buses in the open sky, without traffic and fewer hazards.
So yes bus drivers don’t get paid enough, driving by themselves and the RMT doesn’t really have many train drivers as members, there are more cleaners and lowest paid workers.
It is a disgrace that privileged overpaid bores like Piers Morgan criticise these hard working people, who simply want more pay and to keep their job.
@@jakehowie442 wait, are you comparing train drivers as a skill set with air plane pilots ? 😂
@@jakehowie442driving a bus is nothing remotely similar to piloting an airline, speaks of your complete ignorance of being an airline pilot
@@jakehowie442 when he disrupts the public with his opinion he gets ridiculed and chastised, but when huge industries call short notice strike action that disrupts the entire countries ability to receive medication or medical care we are all supposed to clap like seals for the expression of their opinion?
You're a complete imbecile
True
When American flippancy meets British logic.
@cliffjacobs3952
Here, here
Please! Those idiots are in both countries.
What on earth was Bonnie doing on here. No rational argument at all. Ex hippie attitude
I agree. It seems to always be all about how she feels about issues.
That wasn’t “hippies.” Anti Government. Pro “Come together.” Beatles? Millennials, Gen XYZ “Silo.” We had Pink Floyd. You have George Floyd.
@@michelleb3698 No, Michelle. “Issues” always referred to real events that affected the general populace. Now “issues” means MY “Lived experience.” No stats. No nothing. Just wahwah blahblah.
Piers, Douglas and Isabel, great job! . . . . The yank is talking out of her hole.
Yes they did a great job talking as the Tory party mouthpieces lying to the public about the strike. The media in Britain acts in cahoots with the Establishment and Politicians to impoverish the working class to make sure they never attain any power in their own country.
I politely disagree with you. I agree with most of what she is saying. ❤
@@eleanor5585 can i have a massive pay rise too because ive asked ....give yourself one too 😂😂
YNWA ❤️❤️❤️
that's cos you er a fuckin Woke
Love to see Douglas back on Tv again
What qualifies Bonnie Greer to give her 50 cents on every single issue on every single channel?She was equally,irritating on CNN,back in the day.
Thank lord I’d quit CNN back round time they’d fired Piers. Not much liking this Piers tho. He’s scared. Integrity matters. Hemorrhoids hurt. Quit straddling that fence.
What qualifies Murray or ticey’s girlfriend ?
I think she spoke as sensibly as she could. It was the other two who were making claims they understood everything. She admitted that thing were complicated. Think she was treated poorly.
@@trevaudio Brains .
@@mickaziza She was utterley out of her depth .
So you cant say women because a few men want to wear dresses
I know right it’s crazy I’ll always call women women and men men, world is going crazy
I will always use boy, girl, woman, man, lady, and gentleman. I really care what others things. I have done this for the last 61 years and will not change. What will not change either is a biological boy and a biological girl. If you were born a boy you will always be a boy. If you were born a girl you will always be a girl. This will never change.
i think this silly girl should go back to new york
You are so right...I'm just fed up with this shit.
Why is it that the people who interrupt and speak over others always get upset when they get interrupted themselves? I have seen it numerous times and the hypocrisy of it drives me nuts
because they are displaying their narcissistic, entitled behaviour.
It's particularly a trait I see in liberal women. I suspect they adopt it unconsciously from the liberal women they see on television do the same thing.
Yes.i really hate that myself. What's worse is they always seem to get away with it.
“Your argument is utterly ridiculous”
That woman does not mince words 🤣🤣
Piers puhleez “Keep it simple stupid.” KISS. Simple is their Achilles. Kryptonite. “It’s Complex” confusion is their gaslit rabbit hole. Do better Piers!
No she doesn't, she always talks utter shite
Morgan is part of the Club the problem ? He runs with the hare and the hounds ?
I love listening M Douglas, he says what I am thinking, also not afraid to speak the truth unlike most of the media
Idk who this Bonnie Greer woman is but GOOD LORD she’s irritating.
“Can I speak?” Honey you literally couldn’t have interrupted the other woman much further, earlier, unless you literally cupped your hand over her mouth, which it was clear you seriously would have liked to!
She's a rent a mouth ?
Years ago I used to admire Bonnie Greer, a smart and informed woman. Somewhere, however, something went wrong, and these days she just talks drivel. This discussion is a case in point. She starts off in the most opinionated fashion, then seems surprised that train drivers already earn so much, states that the job is highly skilled then retreats into admitting that she knows nothing about a train driver's job. She is always embarrassingly ill prepared for interviews and discussions and it's increasingly evident that she hasn't done her homework or bothered to keep abreast of current affairs.
The striking union isn’t even the train drivers union, that is ASLEF!
She got woke my guy
She has never been "smart and informed " .Take her outof her race-bait bubble and she is anything but smart and informed . ( & I once had to sit [politely ]) through one of her many "it's the white man's fault " utterley tedious plays ! )
What went wrong?… wokeness!
most of them, dont have the mental acuity even close to Thomas Sowell.
Bonnie is usually on Question Time …and never gets challenged ….she must be in shock .😀 ..ha …
Lol, I agree. She normally just talks away, and mostly uninterrupted. Between Piers and Bonnie, Isabelle Oakeshott didn't get to speak much.
@@michelleb3698 When Piers had Kelly Jean (Posie) on I was disgusted by his disregard towards her. This Angry Block Woman keeps getting platformed while we Women are further silenced by the gaslighting of these “It’s complicated” mentally challenged ignorants? You did Isabelle & Posie a disservice.
She is one of several reasons I stopped watching QT about 15 years ago.
@@blakesleyk.7166 You are an Oniyeye
@@blakesleyk.7166 Ashiere omo Alashewo
I lived in Britain years ago and by the sounds of it it’s changed beyond recognition
I left 25 years ago, thank God!
True.. it has.. in many ways. Massive wokeness rules supreme now. But to be fair we have the US to thank for that, because we have a habit of importing their cultural cues. Also massive overpopulation and uncontrolled immigration has driven property prices through the roof.
But then the USA has changed massively too.
All true.. we've not had a strong prime minister since Margaret Thatcher. I wonder what her answer would be if asked "what is a woman "
It's scary when the most educated of us publicly believe in absurdities
Why is this woman on the show……. If we are gonna have an intelligent conversation, intelligent people would be a good start
She was on a show the other night saying us brits shouldn't moan about the refugees because every person born in UK is a refugee, She's being given a platform when its wasted because they'res lots of woman who could do her slot and actually know what they're talking about.Shes just noise.
I just want beautiful Piers Morgan to use his brilliant unique voice to iterate absolutely anything.
If Piers is going to platform this Angry Block Woman then, at least keep Douglas Murray on to challenge. Put her, ABW, up against Kelly Jean!
I know, oakeschott really is just an embarrassment !
I think they crossed that line when they gave Piers a show!
The audacity of Piers Morgan saying anyone else is overpaid 💀
Underrated comment.
Yes the guy is a lazy repetitive boring bum. He can barely get on train never mind drive it safely and on time
The difference is he works hard.
@@timmo491 Talking🤣🤣................ and mostly nonsense at that.
@@timmo491 lol
Why do you always have that argumentative American woman on talking about the UK?
Yes. She & Markle, along with (other) bombs are our only exports. From USA to UK, please accept my sincere apologies.
I adore Douglas! He speaks with a common sense approach! I agree with Piers that bad timing. That lady isn't being realistic. At on time unions were helpful but they are outdated. Should be a right to work now!!
How can the right to organize be "outdated"?
Can unions force companies to sign labor contracts against their wills?
At no time were unions helpful. They have always been a purposeful detriment to society taking advantage of the lower educated as foot soldiers.
I would love to have a job that pays 45k a year!
apply to become a train driver then and see how easy it is to climb there!
Hard if you don’t have skills
I notice how they always go to the high paid train drivers when talking about the rail strikes, the vast majority of those that will be striking won’t be high paid train drivers on 50k a year, they’ll be maintenance staff, cleaners, conductors, ticket barrier staff, train dispatchers, etc. a lot of these are low paid jobs and they haven’t had a pay rise in 3 years, they worked through the pandemic when a lot of people were furloughed and paid to stay home and continue to see they quality of life go down as energy bills rise by 50% and inflation hits 11%. And as for the argument that how’s not the right time to do this, it doesn’t matter what week they announced a strike, they’re always something happening so in effect your saying they shouldn’t be allowed to go on strike.
Brilliant! You’re voice needs to be shouted from the too lofty position’s of political ignorants. As for next topic, the angry, rude block woman seeking to make the conversation personal thereby unassailable is offensive to reasonable discourse.
No they don't want there job then go and find one that they do!! Plenty of people who would take their jobs in a heart beat
Took the words right out of my mouth Paul.
Yeap, train drivers were not actually striking! What a bunch of BS! I bet the staff behind the glass don't make 50k a year but why talk about the real issues?
Cool and they have the right to protest. But train drivers are still protesting… and still want 11% for a pay rise.. which is still ridiculous
Why have someone on that repeatedly admits they don't know anything about the subject, but advocates for random pay raises because it's nice. At what point do they stop striking, and when do you say no? My guess is her answer is "i don't know?".
LMAO
You really think these Angry Block Women’d ever say “I don’t know?” They don’t Have to ever admit ignorance when raze & eleMental illness are trump cards.
Most journalists don't know anything about what they talk about, which makes it easier to spin and sensationalise
shouldn't incomes go up when inflation goes up? Otherwise whats the point? It is like you are earning less than you did the year before! I feel the majority of people against the strikes are cuz they are prob butthurt cuz they havent got a payrise themselves!
Just give them what they want. I have no idea if it’s easy or hard to drive the train, but I’m sure they deserve it.
How embarrassing.
How is this Bonnie woman on this show? She doesn’t have a clue about reality!
Or anything for that matter.
Well, Nick, like she say’s “It’s complicated?” Nope. Adult Human Female vs Angry Block Woman. And the award goes to ABW. This is what happens when you go from Pink Floyd (us) to Boy George (them) them George Floyd now.
Put Mr. Murrays name in the title to allow more people to find this video.
Piers "why would a train driver deserve an 11% pay raise"
Why would the CEO get millions in bonuses ???
Careful, your attacking the wrong person, look over there he’s stealing your job that I outsourced….
Greer - I have no problem giving them what they want. Really sound economic sense 👍
Douglas Murray is the most common sense intellectual alive today. That lady says give the train drivers whatever they want ..................no back up argument
If you hold Murray in that regard, then you really do not know 'intellectuals'.
@@dohlecarnett1866 Oh but we do, and it seems you're not one
@@janet5846 I smiled.
Has Morgan ever let anyone finish making their point.... ever?
Hes an absolute bell end.
Watching Douglas Murray debate on this panel is rather like watching a chess grandmaster play against cerebrally impaired goats
😂brilliant analogy
🤣This is one silly women BONNIE GREER and just sad to see !
We are fucked…
LMAO
Years ago I worked for British Rail prior to privatization and none of the rail unions gave a toss about anybody other then the train drivers - purely because they were the only ones who when they withdrew their labor the service came to a stop - and the unions feasted on that fact. Any union paying member in any other area of the railway did not get the time of day from the Unions
It's still like that today still, I've been PWAY for over 20 years and they don't give a toss
Piers really confuses me. He talks about snowflakes etc yet he gets offended by the smallest thing.
like degendering words lol
Bonnie Greer has been a lunatic for many years, she even said Kill Bill was a masterpiece.
It's not a masterpiece but it is a good film...
@@huberticusrex nah
Kill Bill is a masterpiece and Bonnie makes a good point, she just failed to bring facts to support her points
Most the people asking for pay rises aren't even treain drivers
Bonnie is bonkers lol
I bet Bonnie has a profile pic with all the badges - I've had my covid vaccine, a Ukraine flag, #bekind, #metoo, a blm fist, Biden/Harris, Stop Oil, they/them pronouns!
and Karen prob the All Lives Matter and Make America Great Again! lol
All the evidence of virtue 😂🤣
When this show started the other month, it was much more watchable because the interrupting was kept to a minimum. Now it's too much. Regardless of the topic, it's just peirs inturrupting his guests. Its becoming unwatchable.
Tuning in simply because i miss Peirce on my TV, can't watch "GMTV" and haven't since he left.
Pierce Brosnan.
I’ve not watched a moment either. Yet, this Piers could use more of that Piers.
Bonnie once told a cleaner I know who dared challenge her on brexit,to “go clean a toilet or something” vile women
Bonnie is either delusional or disingenuous or completely lack of any sense of logic. All her arguments in this video were absurd.
She’s a leftist. End of explanation.
She is a hollywood person. They're all devoid of logic and reason lol
Douglas Murray ! God raise you up to demolish argument , I love you ! God bless you..
This is the second time I’ve seen Boney and she’s obviously losing it.
Bonnie it’s not complicated. People just want to make it complicated because they want to put ALL of their focus on emotional bs, instead of drawing lines for actual priorities.
Bonnie knows nothing about it.She admitted,as much.
It's complicated to Bonnie.
It was a bit difficult for Bonnie Greer to get a solid word in, but then again her brain doesn't seem to be functioning that well anyway. Her responses were childlike
Yes isabel every single worker should have a pay rise. If the train boss can give themselves a bonus of £2 M , then the workers can get a pay rise
Anyone know if Bonnie made it safely back to her reality?
Shes still trippin y'all
If you do not want workers looking for pay raises stop raising prices!! . If everyone's costs are going up which is the phrase that businesses repeat over and over again then workers wages will need to go up to keep up with inflation.
Mr Douglas is very intelligent and not afraid to say things the way there are.
I wish Piers would stop talking over his guests! We end up hearing nothing at all!
Talking out of your ass gets different guidelines than well reasoned arguments
I love the fact that we can comment on these videos
My pay as a career has gone up by a third since we voted for Brexit and I still get less than a third of the pay of a train driver.
RMT is generally the other railway jobs. ASLEF is the main union for train drivers. Cleaners, guards, etc are under RMT and they don’t get paid anywhere near the pay train drivers get.
So strike for more pay? Why do all the workers try tear down other workers it's never at the bosses it's always at the workers... pathetic crabs in a bucket mentality
“Well, you’re unusual person” 😂
Not yet. I'm waiting.
Bonnie mentions that she is getting cut off then cuts off piers morgan, typical lol
Bonnie Greer seems willing and eager to speak on a number of subjects about which, by her own admission, she knows very little or nothing.
Murray's face in the thumbnail killed me
This trans issue seems to be about pushing boundaries. Sex and gender are supposedly separate entities, so if one 'identifies' as a woman (which to be honest, how does one get to do that without that lived experience, but that's another story) yet sex and gender are often conflated, to the detriment of women. If a woman feels uncomfortable sharing private spaces, or even expresses concern about competing with trans women, then she's labelled a bigot or transphobe.
The dilemma of medical care is an issue I knew would be a problematic concern as both men and women have different medical needs. I just hope it doesn't get to a point of intimidation if a patient isn't labelled for not wanting to speak with a medical professional who identifies as the opposite gender...
I fully agree this insanity doesn't exist outside of boundaries. These lunatics only find thier purpose in breaking rules otherwise if there aren't rules they are no longer relevant.
She says train drivers are skilled, its a skilled job. Then she says - i know nothing about train drivers/driving a train. Duh?
£54,000 a year!! Really? I worked like a dog until retirement for £12,000 , they need to get on with their job or get kicked out, ungrateful people, it’s hardly hard work.
It was very telling the words Bonnie used the most during this segment was ‘I don’t know’
I used to live in the UK left in 2013 and train drivers then was getting more than me as a civil servant! All they did was moaned! They are lucky to be in a job after covid🇬🇧
RMT is not the union for train drivers - they are with ASLEF! Don’t fall for the tricks of the media. They are deliberately saying train drivers because they get decent enough wages. RMT is the cleaners, guards, maintenance staff etc and they get barely above minimum wage.
I reckon Sire Kier Starmer must wish he had a fraction of Lynch’s charisma.
To that woman with the scarf on her head didn't ask to be called lady. that's cool bro, I didn't ask for a small number of people to have an unnecessary platform for attention mate.
Whether you spotted it or not Douglas has highlighted the issue with Brexit and immigration. For as long as we have the ECHR we will still remain in EU. That is the solution and only solution we wrote our own laws and be accountable by our laws.
My God, where are we now 😪
Love your work guys its amazing 👏 brilliant and diverse views 👏
Yeah, but it needs more ordre.
There is some weird audio happening in this clip that I kept thinking was my cat getting into stuff, idk how many times I paused to listen for him. 🤣
Piers Morgan- “Well I’m offended by it….”
Bonnie - “We’ll don’t cry about it….”
Take you own advice Lady!
It's great seeing the conversations in this dynamic. 3 normal voices of common sense and Bonnie belongs on another planet.
She said she didn't want to be called a lady but refer to herself as a woman. I bet she can't tell you the definition of a woman
Why was Bonnie invited to this conversation?
PM says ‘54 grand’ … like he could last 5 mins on that PER MONTH … excruciating hypocrisy.
Does Piers deserve his millions
Its not the train drivers on strike. Its all the other grades that do all the other things like track workers guards ticket office staff. etc. Do your research they are only on about 20,000 a year
I keep telling people this but the British Press have worked so hard in cahoots with the Politicians and the Establishment to send out the message that is the train drivers purely because they are the only workers in the rail industry that get a semi decent wage packet. The RMT is for all the cleaners, maintenance etc and some of them barely make min. wage! I have been trying to reply to as many of these falsehoods on here as possible.
I actually agree with mrs Greer on the strike subject. But I agree with Murray on Brexit and gender politics
I know the workings of most trains well and I can tell you that you are vastly under estimating what actually goes into driving a train. However, I strongly disagree with train drivers asking for a pay rise knowing what most of them would earn already, EPSECIALLY at this time.
I kinda get what you're saying about asking or perhaps demanding a raise in these times. But, in the US, Congress votes themselves a raise every year. In good times or bad, they'll get a pay increase anywhere from 12% - 32%. If they can do this, then why wouldn't the average worker at least be able to request a pay upgrade. It doesn't mean they'll get it, but it lets their employers know what's at stake.
Train drivers were not striking btw! They always go for the highest paid members of staff, why not talk about the people on the platforms making 25 and 30k, if that?
ASLEF is the union for train drivers. They are not striking.
RMT are striking and they are the cleaners, guards, ticket staff, maintenance workers who quite often receive a pay barely above minimum wage. Don’t fall for the lying Media in Britain. They are in cahoots with the Establishment and the Politicians to keep the working class impoverished.
I used to commute by train everyday. A Scotrail service from Glasgow Central to Clarkston. I have to say the service was appalling. The staff where obnoxious. The conducters do not care. The train drivers - you never see anyway! To ask for an 11% payrise is shocking - they do nothing!! I no longer commute by train. Give it to the NHS!
Disguisting. I am working my socks off in the NHS, expected to do unpaid overtime every week, need to pay for my courses to stay up to date, and responsible for my patients. And I got like 5%. But she thinks it is okay for a train driver who is already on £50K+ (me £33K after 15 years) another 15%. That's fair, sunshine. Next time you come to me, you will get what you paid for
Its not just train drivers demanding higher pay, we've seen similar demands from nurses, teachers and many other vocations. We have to understand why all of these unrealistically high wage demands are hitting us now. It is the inflation that is hitting all citizens. As i understand inflation in the UK is double digit. I am from Canada and we too are experiencing high levels of inflation. The average middle class person/family is having a difficult time staying afloat.
And what have our governments been doingthat may have contributed to this outcome? They have been indiscriminately printing money during Covid and now they are failing to raise interest rates sufficiently to curb inflation. Moreover, the UK and Canada are for some peculiar reason increasing immigration levels to numbers not seen during my life time. And they are doing this despite the housing crisis that preexisted. People are pissed and for good reason!!!
Douglas's smirk 😍😍😍😍
I agree with most of the points made by Piers Morgan and co., however, I was desperately trying to hear the points Bonnie Greer was making but she was constantly interrupted. She did make the point that she thinks that the train workers who were on strike should get whatever they asked for (strange) but after that she was pretty much silenced. She is obviously a formidable lady, but with the facilitator and two panel participants on opposing sides to her, the discussion was severely compromised and very frustrating.
Silly point by Piers
First of all, most the people striking aren't even train drivers and are under much less that 50+k.
Furthermore, being a train driver is a skilled job. Not everyone can train and be a competent one.
Why was that Bonnie lady invited? She said at one point " I hear what you're saying" ...but she didn't LOL
DOUGLAS FOR PRIMEMINISTER... 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 THIS GUY SPEAKS COMMON SENSE, HE'S BRILLIANT 👍❤
EVERY interviewer brings up the case of train drivers earning £57,000 and more. They're not members of RMT. Aslef is the Union that train drivers are members of.. Mick Lynch has said time and again that most of his members earn between and thirty thousand pounds a year. Some of them receive benefits and many have to use food banks.
she ended up "I never want to be called lady"! what she wants to be called???
Its either the rail workers get a rise or the shareholders get more very generous pay rises!
Not in Britain, if you as a worker strike for more money, all the other workers drag them back down to their peasant pay looool they deserve it
People with massive wages arguing that people with low wages shouldn’t get a pay rise
Welcome to post Brexit Britain. Bonnie is a looper!!
Same situation in the 70s-80s ... percentage pay rises given to the big unions when the majority of people were on far lower wages led to 15% inflation putting a million people out of work and some losing their homes.
ironically probably wiping out a large percentage of the union gains but still in a far better position financially.
If the Brexit vote had been conducted on a parliamentary constituency electoral basis, it is estimated that the result would haven overwhelmingly in favour of Brexit.
as proved in the 2019 GE. I voted against, but respect democracy whether I like the outcome or not.
Im amazed how simple the attitude and approach is to "sticking it to the man and corporations!!!" So simple that there are people who are always for the "underdog" yet lack any consideration of who or how to lead a dog. If they did, they just might find how fotunate comfortable it is to be underdogs
What right has this American woman to criticise Brexit or any other aspect of British politics? When will Americans learn not to interfere in the affairs of other countries?
My aunty works on the trains, the reason she thinks she deserves the rise is because it's cold and wet and they have to deal with the public, tbh the way they get treated is disgusting, but I hate how they got for the lower workers upto 14%increase, there is no way in hell a public service like trains should earn more then NHS or police and fire departments, she's part time and takes £1600 home a month, I'm part time and take home between £800 and £1000 I only work in a Wearhouse for fruit and veg, food for schools, hospitals, nursing homes and obviously pubs, restaurants and hotels, in the fridges or freezer, but I don't care, it's easy work, good people, and time flys when I'm there. I just don't get how the minimum wage doesn't got up enough to cover the cost of living, then if the companies want to pay more it will actually be a plus for the worker instead of most people needing to do overtime, hardly anyone can afford to save now a days. Everyone needs this raise not just a selected few.
So you start on £24000 and upto £65000 as a train driver career. The salary the talked about here is £54000 and that's £3300 take home. That's a lot of money for a job that don't require much to get into and don't require much on the job either. I think they are on a good whack, okay they want more, everybody can always try to get paid more, but it might just be pushing it.
Its not the drivers, its the railway staff
drivers were not striking! I hate that they are always using the highest paid position to talk against strikes! Talk about the staff on the platforms that are on 25 and 30k a year, IF that!