The Tragic Demise of Plants vs. Zombies
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- čas přidán 10. 05. 2024
- Plants vs. Zombies is a franchise beloved by millions. It was arguably one of the biggest games in the world, but now it's a distant memory for many. How come there was such a fall from grace? Who is to blame for this decline? In addition, the community has shown its true colors with their ostentatious behavior, resulting in an unfriendly and less-than-attractive environment from an outside perspective. Danerade (in great detail) describes the tragic demise of Plants vs. Zombies.
Join the Discord!: / discord
Follow the Twitter!: / daneradeyt
The music track list was too long to fit here, so they've all been listed here in this document, including links to any remixes. docs.google.com/document/d/19...
Timestamps:
0:00 Opening
3:19 Section I: Plants vs. Zombies
7:47 Section II: Plants vs. Zombies Adventures
13:31 Section III: Plants vs. Zombies 2
29:19 Section III.V: Modern Plants vs. Zombies 2
37:59 Section IV: Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare
42:03 Section V: Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare 2
47:51 Section VI: Plants vs. Zombies Heroes
53:04 Section VII: Plants vs. Zombies: Battle for Neighborville
57:19 Section VIII: Plants vs. Zombies 3 (Version 1)
1:05:12 Section IX: Plants vs. Zombies 3 (Version 2)
1:13:06 Section X: The Debate Rages On
1:14:56 Section XI: PopCap’s Humble Origins
1:17:22 Section XII: The Buyout
1:22:13 Section XIII: George Fan’s Departure
1:30:17 Section XIV: PvZ 2 and EA
1:36:45 Section XV: EA’s CEOs
1:39:57 Section XVI: Battlefield 2042 and the Hypocrisy
1:43:17 Section XVII: EA as the Publisher
1:47:12 Section XVIII: PvZ Heroes’s EA Infestation
1:54:41 Section XIX: Troubles Manifest in BFN
1:59:14 Section XX: PvZ in Modern Times
2:07:03 Section XXI: Creators vs. “Critics”
2:16:41 Section XXII: Danerade Plays Offense (Again)
2:20:38 Section XXIII: The Counter
2:22:55 Section XXIV: The Truth Hurts Sometimes
2:44:17 Section XXV: Final Wave - Hry
I am really open to any feedback or your thoughts. I know I said some "spicy" things, but I'm curious to hearing all your guys' opinions/thoughts!
Especially in regard to you content creators (some of which I called out sorry lol) and how you feel about my assessment of the PvZ franchise? Thanks!
MODS CLARIFICATION: Hey! So, it’s disappointed me to see a huge misconception regarding my stance on mods. I have absolutely nothing against mods, including the current popular mods. The wording was poor, and I own up to that. At 37:27 I acknowledge Reflourished and how it’s picking up and building off of PvZ 2, yet do not want to comment further because after my bad experience with ECLISE, I would prefer to steer away from mods. My message came off as an attack on the mods themselves which was not the goal. I hope this clarification takes away some of the ambiguity.
Mods man. PvZ2 and PvZ1 mods are extremely worth to give them a try.
The art, the music, the level design, the mechanics advanced a lot since your Eclise video(and they take an insane amount of effort as well)
Hell, Reflourished introduced a PvZ2 chinese world that is even better that the original!!
Altverz is a great mix between PvZ1 and PvZ2
Even mods with some quirks like Requiem are extremely worth.
Give them some Justice man.
Edit: Btw, none of Altverz nor Reflourished developers had any past relevant controversies, the biggest thing apparently was a past rumor about them on Discord.
Edit 2: If thats poor wording, I take it then. But it really was baffling to hear that, even if that was not your intention whatsoever, PvZ modding is a big reason of why people are still invested on PvZ as a franchise, and those words were pretty misleading for new fans and old fans as well.
Yet, I accept the apologize, great video otherwise.
@@JoseViktor4099 👍👍👍👍👍👍🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯✅✅✅✅✅
Id really like (as a comment above stated) if you gave mods a bit more respect, as some of them are really good and worth peoples time
Yeah you did mods dirty and then you bring up TBOI. For those not aware, Repentance is based off a mod, Antibirth. A mod so good that it gets put in to the game because AB+ only got good with the boosts.
I'm surprised at how my opinion on on both PvZ1 and PvZ2 are mostly very similar to yours! You were very elaborated and coherent at explaining the games' mechanics as well as your opinions accompanying them. Issues like bloated out & padded out level count, particularly bad balance and some plants being locked behind paywalls are why I dislike PvZ2.
For the "why did they cling so hard to 3d animations when they didn't look good?" There is an answer: 2d animators have a union. 3d animators do not. This is also why animated movies are in 3d even when they try really hard to make it look 2d
I completely forgot about that! Great info, if it’s correct. Thanks.
got it, wait for a 2d animation strike if I want to hire 2d animators. "scabs" make the best contractors. mostly because they're not stupid enough to side with the artificial labor monopoly.
honest question: why is there a distinction between 2d and 3d animators? Can't the 2D animator union just kinda "expand" to include 3d animation?
Basketball players cant expand to also do american football on nearly the same level.@nottcurious5284
@@kyona5422unions have been around f9r over a century and pretty universally recognised as good lmao.
The fact they turned a tower defense game into an amazing 3rd person shooter is a feat in itself, Garden Warfare was some of the most fun I’ve had with my younger brother and sister, I miss that game so much.
I bought 3 copies of garden warfare to play co-op with my sons... They didn't care for it but I got so addicted to multiplayer! I'd never played multiplayer games before because I suck but got pretty damn good at GW.
I remember when it was a thing- I never got the chance to play it back then, but I wanted to SO bad :,)
It's pretty medicore
Oh man, is it seriously gone? Feels like just yesterday I was staying up till 2am defending that rooftop garden from shitty AI zombies with classmates 🥲
@@toooydoeurmedicore?
One thing I think that’s under appreciated is in PvZGW2, you could bring all your progress and levels from PvZGW1 over to it. Including classes and such. That’s incredible that hardly any other multiplayer sequel does!
I'm pretty sure you can't do that anymore, it was only until 2017
@@GNVS300 I wouldn’t know 😂 that’s all I remember from playing back then.
I started in late 2017 and it didn’t give me the option to do so
I played the og on ps3 and the newer on Xbox one lol both were solid then we have pvzbfnb something weird
So that's why I have all the characters aceppt legendarys
There is NO WORLD where someone's kid would be playing pvz and go like "Wow it would be cool if we could RENT plants. That would really make this game super fun"
yeah first thing i thought of when I heard that was.. 'i think he's lying'. or bests case scenario.. kid is brain washed by the mobile virus.
But still i think he was lying.
Now, i think when this kid said this, He didnt mean it to cost actual irl money, so i think he meant like in crazy daves shop.. either way this kid accidently doomed PvZ2
Yeah I call bs. Just a weak excuse for the higher ups to obfuscate that they are asking for microtransactions.
there is NO WORLD where someone would live in a house and then go "Wow i wish i could rent this house" but ofc landlords will be parasites.
Reaching out to 4 of the developers to gather first-hand accounts of their experience is a level of journalistic integrity you don't really see much on youtube. Good video man
You don't even see it in the real news either.
I see that kind of effort on CZcams all the time haha, it’s in actually important matters and sources like the more popular news outlets that I don’t see it very often
That is the journalist dedication we need
ouch ouch ouch
@@grumguy5980 eurgh
PvZ Heroes could have been a success for EA if they had been more in-touch with the community.
The Hearthstone team, from its early days, hosted tournaments, supported streamers, and had constant communication with its community. This resulted in Twitch and CZcams creators advertising and hyping up the game for them, at virtually no cost.
The exact opposite is true with PvZ Heroes. I've been streaming the game full time for 7 years, and have gotten virtually no support or meaningful communication from Popcap, despite my best efforts to initiate with them. The business model instead was like a disposable mobile app, and no wonder it sunk. No heart, no soul, no success.
It really is a shame because I (and based on your donation messages, many others) stick with PvZ heroes a lot longer than they would have without your content. You show that there can be a lot nuance to the game that goes ignored. And yet, popcap lets it go to waste. The product is out, time for the next project
PvZ Heroes is genuienely a fantastic game, questionable balancing aside. With a community as large as it currently has after like four years of being dead, abandoning it has probably been the worst mistake they ever did.
It sucks too because there were clearly so many aspects and tribes that were just begging to be expanded upon in a future update, but then they just... Didn't do anything about it. Kinda sucks given that the playerbase is still pretty healthy to this day.
Seeing Popcap's graveyard of games makes me wish some other studio could buy the IP and tend to those poor games. PVZ Heroes and GW2 still had room for new content, and it sucks that no one works for Popcap these days. Atleast the servers are still running, right?
You are still, the best PVZHeroes CZcamsr, and thank u for ur amazing content!
2:28 HI MOM!!
I didn't even notice you there daamn
Verbalase
😃
You fell off Mattshea, still love you tho
@@maozedong6869😂 why say the first part? lmao
I don't know why it's a hard thing for big corps to understand (definitely not exclusive to EA): if you allow your talent to flourish, they'll give back in multiples. If you deprive them of light and water, they either waste away or leave.
You need those short term gains for the investors bro look at them monies, long term plans and structure? What's that in todays business world.
@@cin2110Same, when I saw that profit graphic I knew they shot themselves in the foot in 2013.
The major change in 2007 coincided with a global financial crisis, and the slight negative profit change panicked investors and shareholders and they immediately pressed the panic button, changing the CEO and getting the culture and direction we got today. We may never know if they could have waited and invested a little money, if it would have worked.
Now EA may be going through a very slow death, with an infested and corrupted workplace culture and direction, which already caused a reputation death with the consumers(us). The failure is both a sign of the rot in EA and other major companies. All I said applies to other megacorpos, just changing the details a little.
I love thinking “wow! what a great video! this was a good watch!” and then looking at the timestamp and seeing there’s a hour and a half left.
I wish EA and the Devs could see this and realize their wrongs and how much we want this amazing franchise back.
In my opinion, i don't think EA will ever change their mind.
Its all about money and thats all EA cares about, most games that come out now are designed to be cash grabs. nothing will change, especially at the helm of EA
@@ZenTerra-N.O.V.Amoney has corrupted them beyond help
I used to work as an executive producer in the video games industry. Believe me, they won't.
i play gw2 right now on steam its popping. still good
Man this series was combo'd to death from all places. From the new developers, to the publisher, to the fans, to the industry. Hell came from everywhere.
And using Zombies on Your Lawn as the credits theme was nostalgic, thanks for this.
CZcams randomly put this video on my feed. Never heard of you or seen your videos before, haven't even thought about PvZ in years and barely played it back then.
I listened to this entire near 3 hour upload never once getting bored or looking for something else to watch instead. This was such a good documentary with an incredible amount of work put into it, amazing job :)
Can't believe I just watch this whole thing in one sit 👵great vid, you dived deep dude 👍
I like your content!
Nice
How deep 🤨
Yo it’s the sunflower
same, i was hungry and my head hurts, but i still decided to finish this in one seating lol
I just genuinely wanna say from the bottom of my heart, thank you for making this video. PVZ means so much to me and has brought such awesome memories for me and this video, fully discussing how it fell and even hurt people is just truly amazing.
Have you played the PVZ arcade game? It’s very fun
I did not know that I needed a 2.5 hours video about the fall of pvz but im here for it.
Fun fact: in the first PvZ, to get the sound effect of butter hitting a zombie's head, Laura Shigihara threw butter at George Fan. (With permission, of course.)
I bet nobody at Popcap gets butter thrown at them nowadays...
As a PvZ CZcamsr, I feel it is right to say that Plants vs. Zombies is definitely one of the most depressing downfalls to a video game franchise. PvZ holds a huge place in my heart, and it's such a shame for fans (me included) to see what has happened to their childhood game.
The corporate greed of EA and Popcap shoved PvZ down from its pedestal, cramming it with microtransactions and advertisements.
2019 can basically be described as the year that ended PvZ. Battle for Neighborville was released, and the reviews for that game were not as complimenting as they were for the other games in the series.
A pre-alpha for PvZ3 was released in 2020, and that game sucked. A second beta was released somewhere in 2021, having an update to the beta released in 2022 (I might be wrong about the dates) and that one was even worse.
I was amazed by this video, it was extremely well constructed. It was so well done that I actually watched the entire 2 hours of it. And yes, it was indeed worth it. Danerade getting big CZcamsrs like Foekoe and Wolfy Playz and even some of the most caring Popcap employees to talk about PvZ's downfall and their experiences with the franchise really says something about it.
I think this video pretty much wraps the franchise up as a whole, and it's just depressing to see what has happened to this game and its community. Maybe a miracle will occur, and the franchise is redeemed. But it's highly unlikely.
Thanks Danerade for making this masterpiece of a video.
Have a lovely day everyone. Sorry I had to make an entire essay in the comments.
Good thing I can sideload an older version of PvZ2 on my android.
@@ShinyTillDawn Keep backups too, friend. You never know what might happen to any phone & indeed OS. More & more corporate backdoors are making it hard to keep one's phone one's own.
@@ZaCloud-Animations___she-her I tell people to do that all the time in other contexts.
Root @@ZaCloud-Animations___she-her
As someone who handles accounting for companies, I've seen LOTS of mergers and acquisitions. Someone being 'laid off' is often just a low-profile firing. Because firing someone for not cooperating can look a little dictator-y, so instead you put their name on "The List", and whenever team downsizing comes around, they're the first ones to go, so that way you can just blame it on downsizing and nothing personal, even if it definitely is. And often that implicit threat is enough to make people do things they otherwise wouldn't, such as, say, cram microtransactions into an otherwise beloved series. Because if the big boss says that you need to make more revenue, and you say "but MTX are kinda scummy :/", you know you'll be on the list of people who will be gone next time there's any restructuring.
So granted PopCap were the ones actually developing, there's an implicit threat by the mere existence of EA hovering over them. You know what happens to unprofitable development studios. I won't blame someone for acting strangely when they're under implicit threat of losing their career, which is why I always blame EA for the ruination, not the individual devs.
EA are well-known for scooping up low to middling development companies, tightening up their operating costs and efficiency, and trying to make them as profitable as possible. If any person stands in the way of that, there's little reason for EA to keep them around. Company culture? Sounds like useless expenditure to the suits. Extravagant parties? Wasting money to the suits. Lengthy development cycles for one-time purchase games? Too inefficient and slow for the suits. So you end up with a more generic company with less interesting people pumping out cheaper games with more microtransactions. If it even vaguely looks like it's failing, burn it, try again. Because the development costs are so low with the new method that you're not wasting too much money just slapping together project after project and discarding the old attempts.
This was a really interesting and detailed explanation that paired well with talking about the intricacies of the PopCap and EA relationship found in the video, cool stuff!
Man, if only socialism could work
@@ShinyTillDawn If you know much about socialism, you'd know that the way state-owned companies 'fire' people they don't like involves them never showing up again.
People disliking each other is a human problem, not an economic system problem. And optimizing the fun out of a company for the sake of productivity is similarly a human problem, it occurs in all economic systems.
Absolutely breathtaking video. I watched every second of it and absorbed so much information I have never thought to dive into myself... Sincerely eye-opening when it comes to the businesses that make my favorite games as well as the hardships of the developers who put their hearts and souls into making them.
I've rarely watched your videos, but this just exudes passion.
This is the first video I came across in your channel and usually an hour long video is just background noise while I work on my shop, I admit that this two hour long deep dive is absolutely informative and entertaining and I was so invested what the hell happened to PopCap as I loved the very first Plants versus Zombie game (I wasn't able to watch the sequels and garden warfare as they do not really float my boat anymore but I always wondered what happened to the IP). Many kudos to you for all the effort and video production, I instantly subscribed!
Great video! Even though I covered the topic myself a year ago I found myself amazed at the amount of revelations as to how deep the story goes. This is some next level research and should be heralded as a great piece of gaming journalism. It’s just sad that instead of discussing the fact that a massive childhood game company is on its last legs and is at serious risk of going under, people are too concerned with defending one comment in this nearly three hour long video. Glad to have my theories confirmed about EA’s involvement retroactively making my video age better too 😎😎😎
Thank you for the kind words Mr. T3rr0r! Also more thanks for recording all those lines (sorry I didn't give you context and dropped that bombshell on you lol).
How do you say your chell name
God T3rr0r I keep forgetting you are an emoji user that everyone would think is a kid(spams emojis at the end of comments) but you are actually good and probably has an normal IQ(hopefully)
Also I have to check your channel again I saw more scratch
People be focusing too much on the one bad thing
Yo whaddup t3rror been a sub since 2021 👍
You know, this video is much more than a simple retrospective the Plants Vs Zombies franchise, but rather a video that delves into the deeper socioeconomics of how a work culture is shifted by an acquisition and the rippling effects it has on the various facets of the company. Like, this is one of the most well-researched video game-based videos I have ever seen on CZcams, as it cites really obscure parts of all sorts of development histories. Lots of PvZ2 data, which I think is very important because that marks the point of turning a winning game formula into something really horrible, but there is lots of data surrounding topics such as Plants Vs Zombies Heroes and Battle for Neighborville. I digress. This video is really amusing to me personally as someone who just finished their first semester in college, taking an intro sociology course. I remember having to write a 10 paper about an important social issue with 15 academic resources. This kinda parallels that exact experience, but this is way more entertaining. Kudos for turning what should be a mundane topic into something interesting.
Discussing the more boring and technical business related topics proved to be a challenge. But, I'm happy that it seems to have worked out, and while I didn't think of it initially, I suppose there is a lot to dissect here when it comes to corperations and work relations. Great thoughts!
@@Danerade what can be said job well done that help me to see things more consistenly I maybe not delve too much on companies and PVZ is the first gaming franchise I got intrested but I admit I took some stuff too far wheter as a fan or a backlasher
@@Danerade For real though, my sociology professor would have loved a lot of your video if you made it, like, a lot more boring and removed the appealing edits and jokes and made it more "professional". People can learn from you that just because the presentation doesn't come off as traditional, that doesn't mean that the quality of the core material is of bad quality. I dunno. Think this type of video can be a great influencer to help people would try to find these much bigger problems in these passions they have. Just speaking on my mind here. No real direction! Haha! Anyways. Keep at it! You did a better job explaining why I should be interested in social issues than my professor. Appreciate the work!
If anyone was interested, my paper was on income inequality, defining what it is, and the economic efforts that both help and harm it. Does that topic interest you? Is it boring? To me, it doesn't matter. Only you can tell yourself that. I mean, you guys just watched a movie about how an external company buyout shaped social dynamics within the smaller company ending up to its doom... but admittedly that smaller company really shaped everyone's life here in some way. That paper was hell by the way. NEVER taking sociology again. Think I might major in something related to STEM.
Industrial society and its future-
Beautifully written and perfect closure to one of my childhood favorites. It's so sad to see the way PVZ fell off, but I'm Happy we got a few good games and memories with family and friends
Very well made, and great research. Used to love Pop Cap games like so many others, and have been wondering what happened to them. Thank you for making this video.
As a person who loves the entire PVZ Franchise. I am very sad that this has happened to one of my most loveable games that I played as a kid and I still play the games today.
Lucky enough there's mods, and wonderful people who actually care about franchise who makes them.
As someone who used to be a huge, huge fan of this franchise throughout my childhood, was involved with the community (I used to own/manage the "lawn" server many years ago), it's incredibly amazing to hear someone talk about my favorite games, with such clarity, detail and the same passion that I had for these games.
(Also I used to be one of the few people back then who'd obsess over artists and musicians on these games and pulled up a lot of concept art, even owned the art book- so seeing them in this video and anecdotes from artists, creative people and name drops of musicians genuinely is so, so appreciated).
This was such a fantastic video and I appreciate you for showing people a really good window into our weird little community :)
EDIT: I just got to the interview part (I was only at the first half/covering the games) and oh my GOSH Erin Middendorf! She's my favorite artist who worked on the games, many memories of sharing her work around back in the day to others. AAAAAA!!!
Unrelated to your comment, wanted to compliment your oh so adorable profile photo!
get a job
@@hxyriwho hurt u lmaoo 😂
This video is definitely your magnum opus so far. I really like the way you articulated your points and the video flowed very well, I look forward to your future stuff!
Idk how I watched this whole video, but man, it was extremely good. Idk how you managed to do a so well-crafted 2 hour 40 minutes video, but you nailed it. Thanks for doing this for us :)
I'm amazed you managed to condense such a large amount of information and ideas in just under 3 hours, this definitely felt like it could've been upwards of 7 hours
The amount of history of the PVZ Franchise is enough to tell under 3 hours, most of this video is overexplaining everything but it's done well
I'm not even in the PVZ community and I can clearly recognize the sheer effort that went into this video. This was fascinating and the editing was entertaining and well placed. Fantastically done dude.
This was a wonderful video to listen to as I worked, and your dedication to research and integrity is insane. Thank you so much for making this.
This is just HANDS DOWN an amazing video. Had go finish watching it despite it being almost 3 hours. Ur amazing man.
Honestly, the "I've had it!" genuinely sounded like genuine anger and it just shows how serious you are. Everything about this video is well done and researched well
The fact that PvZ2 changed so drastically from launch to the end of Adventure Mode to now is really...something else.
I remember when the maps were like an actual maze you could choose your path through and then when they changed it I had an awful feeling it was going to get worse. Then it did
This is pure critic to PvZ and its franchise. And thank you for the long-2-hour duration that straight to the points that I have experienced in playing these game franchise (especially the PvZ2: It's about demise" lol). Now I think it's better for me to say goodbye to this golden memoire of my childhood. Plants vs. Zombie, the OG, and no more playing any of that another new game (that PvZ3 is simply failed before its launch, I suppose).
PS: after fully watch this video and the summarize. I feel like I'm ready to let go this memoire of my childhood. I hope in another time, people would make a greatest hit that as same as The OG Plants vs. Zombies. Thank you George Fan and Fams, and especially Danerade that make this passionate critic that somehow sparks my interest on this gaming field. Bravissima!
The problem with the loot boxes in battlefront wasn't getting characters. The loot boxes dropped ability cards that change how your skills work or improved them. People who just spent money on loot boxes were rewarded with the best and rarest abilities making it pay to win.
Not gonna lie, I enjoyed watching this video. Good seeing a video with some nuance to it. There was a lot of research done that presented facts I don't think most of us have ever considered. Especially loved all of the interviews you had. I really respect the time and effort that went into this video.
I hope that the people who watch this and aren't really in the community don't take away the wrong ideas because of some serious character misrepresentation (especially with RFL and Altverz, because I have no idea what you were referring to, same with the shade thrown at people like Random). You make really fair criticisms against the community, but some specific examples you presented about the it being bad make no sense and this video is getting instantly disregarded by most because of it, despite all of the really good information you presented. I hope people come back to this soon and listen to the criticisms you made against the greater PvZ community because a lot of it deserves to be recognized.
I think a lot of the hate for the videos like The Beak's comes from a decade of blatant misinformation being spread around. It's hard to be a PvZ fan and not snap like most have because the only thing this franchise is known for is how EA supposedly fired George Fan. It's pretty disheartening to see games you care so much about get instantly disregarded over rumors, and videos that perpetuate those false ideas only receive negative attention because of how they've been disproven, no matter the intentions of the creators. The Beak's video in particular really appeared to have no thought behind it because it used blatant mod footage and (unintentionally?) passed it off as official.
Also, love how you pronounced Altverz. Never heard it said that way before.
The 2 seed slots man is here!!!🐔
it sucks because this is legitimately the best video on pvz i've seen, but that section is already turning people against it which i dont even blame them since it feels really petty
@@fishingrod2253 Exactly how I feel...it really sucks because the rest of the video is so good
Wtf based take
I like the video it well-made but it make the pvz community and modders look very bad and evil and that my criticism and why I don’t like the part about were it make the pvz community and modders look bad
This is a really well put together video and a huge thank you for getting the facts straight and interviewing the people directly involved in the franchise. The previous 'downfall' videos received criticism for a lack of research. Clearly you have put in the work to avoid such a thing and it has really paid off. I mean, this feels like a full cinematic documentary. However, while your criticisms of the community are valid, I feel like it has to be said that 99% of the community are kids. Young people can be impressionable and aren't going to have discussions about the franchise with this level of nuance. It isn't really reasonable to take things a fanbase of mostly children say in comments or about you or the companies involved etc. to heart. This goes for any content creator in a similar situation really. Not to say that your criticisms of the community aren't valid, but I feel like the demographic of the player base explains why they are so 'militant' and opinionated, they're mostly children passionate about the franchise.
I hope your video gets seen by a lot of people, it truly is great. I just hope that the more personal intermissions don't dilute the overall video like some have been saying.
First off, thank you so much! In regards to the community, it is no doubt a touchy subject, yet something I felt was important. I know I said it in the video, and maybe even should have said it again, but it doesn’t describe “everyone.” And I think it’s fair to say there is a spectrum on how aggressive some people are. My opinion mostly came as a content creator, which is an extremely unrelatable perspective for most people. At the very least, I hope this video sparks some discussion on how people see the PopCap/EA story.
And this is why children should not use social media and thus keep their opinions to themselves unless they can articulate them maturely.
I mean it's not unfair to say that most pvz fans are in a very young age demographic. The games are generally targeted to children after all (especially the newer ones)
You had to put a lot of work in this. I applaud how much you put into the research, and I especially enjoy hearing your opinions on it all (as well as the justification behind them). Amazing video. This is the first time I'm seeing your channel, and I think I'll be sticking around as this kind of quality is superb. The effort you had to have put into making this must've been a lot, and hopefully it is reliving to know it hasn't gone unnoticed. Keep up the great work!
where was the justification behind him slandering the altervz and reflourished teams and random (the guy who made the good pea 2 what lies behind the door)
@@primalpeashooter Check the pinned comment.
Amazing video- I’ve watched a few others on your channel in recent years and you’ve grown a lot- I listened to the whole thing and it was very well researched and put together so I congratulate you on that. It really helped me understand the process of what happened to Popcap and pvz in general much better!
First of all wanna say this was probably the best PvZ summarization I've ever seen. 2nd, as a long time fan of the franchise whos loved the series since pvz 1 I wish we had more but despite with how much gaming has changed in terms of monetization, I'm afraid we can never see creativity again. I feel like as if PvZ 3 may be the last pvz game out of popcap and for how successful the older titles are rn they will continue to grow. I hope for the future of this franchise to properly restart and hopefully be back on creativity and not some cash grab but that will most likely never happen again.
Indie devs disagree.
Corporate devs are dying out and fizzling away,as devs are fed up with corpos being overbearing.
So we're at the brink of a big corpo collapse that will leave the indies more free than ever.
@@raylenn4444 I really, really hope so. So many of the greatest hits nowadays are indie, & are hits because they truly resonated with the player-base, & formed personal communities & friendships & creative growth among fans. But, the more shallow pay-to-win tripe keeps coming out, the more the young generations get funneled into the "this is reality, accept it" mindset about that format. So many of them don't even know how to get into Settings, how to edit their posts online, or that cussing people out is NOT how to show respect... They're being groomed into mindless consumption of microtransaction formats as The Way Things Are, are less likely to look outside of that spoon-fed source... & that's what the corporations want. Less thinking for yourself, more mindless consuming, scrolling, & feeding the algorithms.
I hope enough of this young, impressionable group (as well as older folks trying to learn modern tech, & thus also being funneled into the simple & addictive like this) find out that there's so much more out there, so much deeper & better & more meaningful, off to the side as one-time purchases (or totally free without data harvesting), straight from creators' hearts, out there if one is brave enough to venture off the beaten path. Which is getting gradually more difficult to do.
Only if we show enough of them the way, so they can make informed decisions, can this movement succeed.
I sincerely hope it can.
@@raylenn4444and thats when the indies will probably form corporations after upscaling
@@res6148 unfortunately.
Unless we abolish the shareholder system and the stock market to prevent such an outcome.
This is, by far, been the best video I have ever seen regarding PopCap's downward slope recently. Good job, Gatorade!
Gatorade 🍹
This video was so well reserched, entertaining and interesting. I loved it. Very high quality!
Great video bruv, explains a lot and I'm looking forward to seeing more
I’m happy this video exists. Independently from how the PvZ community will receive it, I think it adds really well to the conversation and it’s a solid case study on why monetization in games is the way it is, both in mobile and console games. It’s important to question and be critical of not only the games we play but of any media we decide to enjoy and put our money on. The PvZ franchise had a change like this happen because it was an economically successful decision to adapt to the mobile gaming market. Games with microtransactions and scummy business practices exist because at some point many people started to, and still are, giving money to games with these practices. If we truly care about the games we play and the media we enjoy, we have to be mindful of these sorts of business practices and how we indulge in them, because like it or not, we vote with our money. Micro-transactions and in app purchases wouldn’t be a thing if they weren’t successful in the first place.
beautiful interpretation!
But the main reason they're successful is because they're targeting extremely exploitable demographics such as children and teens in a very predatory way. Also, if the market is so saturated with F2P and microtransaction type content that it's pretty much unavoidable (which is at least the case when we're talking about mainstream video game companies) "voting with your wallet" has no effect because these companies know that they don't have to change their business practices because they have no other choice. Personally, I think it's a problem with the whole incentive structure here, as the evolution of video gaming from a niche market to an absolutely monolithic one has vastly warped the profit motives of these large companies into increasingly risk-averse tactics, which is understandable when a underperforming main-title game can lose millions and billions of dollars, but doesn't exactly make for great game design.
@@SisyphusGrimaceyeah, it’s literally playing the corporation card and blaming it all on the individual. Remember when games were all fun and were only $1? It would be amazing to return back to those times, Apple and Google should actually incentive paid games or games that are atleast fun to play
Agreed
What an incredibly well-made video. Like many others, the original PvZ holds much nostalgia for me and to see the name go downhill over the years due to greed has been depressing. Obviously a complex situation with many factors but fascinating to hear about. Thank you for all the time and effort put into this!
i haven’t watched u in a lil while and it’s so nice to come back and see such a long vid! i feel like a proud older sister (also ur voice is much deeper than i remember haha) keep up the good work bro :’)
I was a diehard PvZ fan for years, even to the point of thoroughly enjoying PvZ 2 for a long while. Even today I still have the original game on my phone just in case I'm bored and need something to play. But the most telling thing about the state of PvZ nowadays is that I've moved over to Bloons instead of modern PvZ. I still think when it comes to the older games in each series PvZ 1 beats out the older Bloons games, but Bloons TD 6 is EASILY the current tower defense king and it's not even close. It might be $7 on mobile and I think $15 on PC, but that price tag comes with a genuinely great game that while you can buy more stuff in, is still a great game without buying a single thing besides the game itself. Meanwhile PvZ 2 is a F2P wasteland and 3 isn't looking to turn out much better, if it ever releases at all. It's sad since this is still one of EA's more unique franchises, and it's not like the only good game was the first since we got Garden Warfare 1 and 2 which were actually great shooters. At this point, I think the best we can do is continue to mod PvZ 2 to make it good again, keep the first game downloaded on every device you have, and hope EA keeps the servers for GW2 running.
mucho texto
@@prismarine3577imagine playing mobile games only for the past 10 years get a life
@@ALPHA.ZONE_Zack Scott games would like to have a word with you
Wow.... I did not expect this. The fact that you got big names like Wolfy and Foekoe (i butchered that name) to just say a bunch of lines to interviewing 4 ex Popcap employers is just mindblowing.
This was easily worth waiting almost an entire year for. And it does make me sad that Plants vs zombies is almost 15 years old and yet i doubt something will be done to celebrate that moment.
I remember playing this game when i was i think 7, it was a demo that only featured the 2 parts. It sure was an experience. I think i bought the first game on Steam in late 2021 i dont really remember, what i do remember is me completing a good chunk of this game in one sitting (the same day i bought the game). Would not recommend but it should keep you engaged.
I think for the 15 year anniversary i will review every game. Lets see how that will go considering your rant about the community and the creators. That was hilarious and also a pretty good wake up call for the community.
But PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NEVER EVER MAKE VIDEOS THAT TAKE ALMOST 1 YEAR TO EDIT, im not saying that i hate these its just that i love your videos and want to see more.
Welp that was my TED talk ig. Briliant video!
I'm pretty sure the Wolfy bit is taken from an older video rather than a 'true' feature (I think it might have been his 'Truth About PVZ' video); Danerade edited clips over it but the dialogue sounds familiar.
Edit: couldn’t find it in that video, it might be original after all
No, you got Foekoe's name right.
Dude, congratulations on an insanely well made video, it's pretty rare that I'd want to watch a full (almost) 3 hour video on CZcams but the amount of effort you went to in compiling all this information made it totally worthwhile. We're probably not going to see anything like the original PvZ out of Popcap again, but it was nice to find out what happened and get some sort of closure in that sense.
This is insanely well thought out and well constructed, congrats on the fantastic video! It's impressive that despite being over 2 hours long it managed to keep my interest through the whole thing.
It's really funny that the one zombie you chose to interrogate, screendoor, is the only one that explicitly explains how he got his props - the almanac says he successfully got into someone's house and just. Took the door. Right off the hinges.
edit: 14:52 I've done this at least three times and it was the most fun I've had with the franchise outside of Adventures tbh.
edit2: Hearing about workers being treated less-than-stellar by/at PopCap is honestly really heartbreaking to hear. Like the obvious "just treat the workers properly" aside, largely thanks to PvZ, for the longest time my ultimate dream job would have been to work at PopCap. I wanted to join their art team and maybe improve some of this franchise's recent art (at the time I kinda hated pvz2's art style lol)
I guess dropping out of college was kind of dodging a bullet :/ So disappointing.
edit3: On the one hand I WANT to like the idea of a pvz match game. On the other hand...Bejeweled.
edit4: WE COULD HAVE HAD TBOI X PVZ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
edit5: *We lost out on pvz x pokemon for A FUCKING STAR WARS GAME?!?*
Technically, there is a TBOI x PvZ fangame, called I RULE
Go play it, it's really fun and it's free
and I mean truly free
It reminded me more of that game called Archero or something like that
no we lost on a pvz x pokemon for A FUCKING STAR WARS GAME THAT NEVER RELEASED...thanks EA
1:06:00 To add, it’s perfectly possible for a 3D game being animated into 2D to look good. Deadcells is a great example. The game is actually rendered using 3D models, but then a shader is added to make it look like 2D pixel art. And it worked out pretty well.
This video was recommended to me at the perfect time I was just wondering what became of this game and this answers every question I ever had about plants vs zombies I love the passion and love that was put into this video
I might be biased because I grew up playing PvZ2 instead of the original. I personally think PvZ2 is a good sequel to the original game. It expands PvZ to various historical themes, all contain unique zombies with various mechanics. All though some worlds level designs were horrible. I think the relief after completing such levels felt accomplishing like how you felt when beating the boss of the original game. I personally disagree with the music being lackluster. Neon Mixtape Tour has the best music and Dark Ages music is goofy but fun to listen. Lost City opening level music was adventurous and felt like I was exploring a jungle in some old timey movie. I agree that they could have added more mechanics on some worlds like Lost City. What really killed PvZ2 was the leveling up system and the fact that they stopped adding worlds after Modern Day.
i believe only the international version stopped adding worlds, from what i recall i think the chinese version is still adding new worlds occasionally and stuff.
@@SporianSummit Ah yes, but is a shame, worlds in PvZ2 Chinese after MD are a bit lackluster. The art is good , very good, but everything else... There is a unique Garg which has 4x HP (If frozen is smaller) of a normal Garg in a world which can teleport them to the first/second collumn... Yikes.
my only peaves are no more hopping between worlds after beating day 6 of AE, and microtransactions
@@JoseViktor4099 yeah, its an annoying double-edged sword sadly
brother if you "grew up" playing a 10 y/o game you're still a kid lol
I remember the first time I discovered hypno shrooms and I thought they were just insta kills but with a cool going away thing, the moment I realized they ate the other zombies I got so excited that the moment I told my family who were there the way I did was so iconic we sometimes refrence ie to this day and this was 10 years ago
I bet it feels super rewarding for your most recent video to be your most popular easily, your still reaching new peaks keep it up 👌
You've captured my attention for almost 3 hours strait! This is an achievement 😤
Plants vs zombies Heroes was the PVZ I played the most and was the game that got me into card games.
And I'd still be playing it and watching fry em up if it kept getting up dates
Same
Bro i hacked my tablet to be in new zealand to play it in beta and man I did not expect it to be my favorite card game ever and its almost entirely cuz of the gameplay and not as much the characters
Me too.
Same, man. I miss this game so much. What a waste of potential.
bro forgor about pvz china edition 💀
Those games are so interesting, especially since a lot of them are unavailable now so there’s only so much information about them
thx for a really good video, first video that I watched in ur channel
I absolutely loved the first game to pieces as a kid, played it lots with my brother. I knew about Garden Warfare and Garden Warfare 2 and have played them, sadly not as much as the original pvz. After that it just... faded into absolute obscurity for me. It was only until yesterday that I saw your video and remembered the games, almost like a repressed memory in the best of ways.
Then after watching the video, realized that I had missed a LOT of PvZ games. It makes me almost glad that I didn't get to play these other games, yet its bittersweet in the fact that even if I wanted to play all these other PvZ games, I just won't like them. Though maybe I should revisit PvZ, maybe GW2 but I wasn't as big on it before.
It was a great video, brought back some memories I hold onto fondly, thank you for that.
I have autism
Did anybody ask?
Im retarded
@@carsonmcgee982I DID
@@carsonmcgee982no, but no one asked you to comment either and yet you still did so
@@pcn545 who asked
You referenced your age a few times throughout this video, and I have to say this is an EXTREMELY well made video for how old you are. You're incredibly well spoken and great research went into this. Have never hit subscribe faster in my life. Keep up the great work!
Yep. Sure as a 17 year old myself I feel the video does drag on and also feel like he doesn’t understand what an opinion is, and how having a different one doesn’t make you any less correct, or how he goes on and on about how the community is bad and how everyone only blames ea but no one realizes that pop cap has just as much blame. I feel this vid should have stoped after around the 1 hour mark, also the fact he said pvz isn’t dead, despite this video being a video saying it’s dead. But yeah other than that and him basically copying Scott the woz’s video style, good vid.
small question, have you even finished the video @@dexterthecat9580
Very well researched video! Wonderful, truly. You're well spoken, and your opinions are valid. Thank you for this video! ❤
Great video, so passionate you earned a sub let’s see where u can take this bro!
This video was great from start to finish, honestly reminded me lots of the "The ACTUAL History of Bloons" documentary and sooner or later Id expect your video to see similar results in terms of likes and views.
👍
Man what a great video. I still have such an attatchment to pvz, even though I don't play the games anymore. These goofy scrungly designs will always hold a very special place in my heart. Seeing you go through all these efforts for this video, made me happy that you were able to end on a happy note through it all.
It's easy feeling sad over the franchise's fallout, at least for me, but I'm happy to see there's love and appreciation for these games still, even though its spinning its weels and past its prime. I must sound like a nostalgia maniac, but I really hope there will be similar games like these in the future. With a calm, rustic, and mysterious soundtrack, and impeccibly charming designs.
This video's production is insane. easily the best video to ever be made on the topic
I loved this series and it does suck that it decayed so badly. I liked that you included interviews of former employees. It was very informative.
As someone who got too engrossed in this community a while back and ended up getting too involved in dramas (I honestly really regret it, I did some stupid things). I hope people in this community learn something from this video and help evolve this community to improve, because the people in this community are basically what this game franchise has left.
Jornker mario maker 3 ideas: goomba shroom
"the community is what this franchise has left"
Tf2:first time?
Lol pvz drama? Why’re there so many cringy children in these comments
@@Kabal39 literally every community has drama
@@Kabal39 The modding community in particular has a lot of drama, over mod ideas, gatekeeping, and some other really stupid stuff.
PVZ heroes had unlimited card combinations that after 5 years since last update, theres still new deck ideas coming out and the meta is evolving
The dominant strats are always the same, but there's always some wonky set that just beats it somehow
Thank you for all the information.
Incredible video, watched every minute of it. Thanks for doing the painful research and gameplay that the rest of us didn't want to do.
I grew up playing games from PopCap throughout the 2000s, Plants vs Zombies included, and they were one of the reason why I pursued (and eventually got a job in) game development. Seeing their demise a decade later and watching through this documentary felt bittersweet and personal to me.
In a way, they were my childhood gamedev hero. I guess one way to think about it is that they had their era ended, and now it's the turn of aspiring developers like me to pass on the torch. If it weren't for playing their games as a kid and curiosity got the best of me, I wouldn't have studied game development, from pirated copy of Game Maker recreating PopCap stuff to ended up learning Unreal Engine despite the odds against me, and somehow make a living out of it.
Thank you, past PopCap for inspiring me, and thank you, Danerade for the effort into this video.
Pvz heroes honestly deserve’s more love, thank you.
Exactly!
i do wonder which game got it worse, pvz heroes or tf2
They really need to put it on PC Steam, it'll get all the love it deserves from 1 simple move.
@@smugplushdude how is a mobile game gonna translate to steam
@@mikadosannoji553pvz heroes for sure, TF2 atleast has a big community and wasn’t ghosted by its creators
This is so good! Great job
Damn, I've never ever been focused on watching something like more than 2 hours long. But this video caught all my attention and time, but it's worth it. Clever writing, user-friendly editing, and tons and tons of information, jokes, opinion. This is a masterpiece. Thank you for your time and effort, reseaches. I love it so much.
same i have same opinion with you
I have to say I appreciate how well segmented the video was: it really helped pacing this quite long, but justifiably so, video. Bravo.
Just finished watching the entire video (had to take a couple breaks) and i just have to say WOW. The amount of research, editing, and nuance is arguably better than many news network studio documentaries. As a fan of pvz from playing the original game as a kid, i learned a lot about popcap, EA, and some games i didn't even know existed. Thank you for putting in all of the time and effort into this video, i think your research is extremely credible and challenges the rather oversimplified takes many of us have on the decline of the pvz franchise. Most importantly though, thank you for paying homage to the employees of popcap, as this franchise simply couldn't have existed without them.
Amazing video, this was honestly first time i seen your videos, and i see why it took so long, it really is worth it, i watched it whole at once, and it kept my interest for the whole time, a great accomplishment for a video longer than some movies.
Now regarding this topic,
it has interested me for a while, so im happy you got to cover it fully, as indicated by 25 different sections of the video, adressing pretty much everything there is to know and more. it reminded me a bit of problems that Team Fortress 2 currently faces, connected to the fanbase, creators, developers, independent contractors and other sides of the story.
In short, great video! I think i'll stick around
Just realized the last sentence i said was accidentally a reference to your info page on youtube. Funny coincidence!
Amazing video🎉🎉🎉 just watched it all the way trough without realizing it was -3hours long
As a long time fan like many others, this video is so well researched and dives into the more unknown parts of this whole rabbit hole very well especially with the interviews. It’s sad to see PvZ and Popcap in its current state but hopefully things will get better as time passes. Amazing video man.
It’s so cool you were able to reach out and interview those 4 at the end. This has to be your best video yet!
Great video (Also lovet the PVZ versus series hope you bring it back someday)
This video is so well edited ant so like that I'm counting it as a gosh darn movie!
This is one delicious vid dropped and might I argue one of the best videos I've watched on CZcams this year, you deserve all the credit for your efforts and how you shined light on the franchise.
This was such a fascinating video. I really love how in depth you got with all the different facets of what happened to the franchise. I also appreciate that you showed both sides of the various issues you discussed, it was helpful to get to hear both points of view in the same video and close together to be able to really see the differences and where the conflict lies.
Amazing video.
This video really clears many thing that i was wondering about. Thanks
This is a great video man
Thank you, Danerade, for this video! I appreciate the effort that was put into its production. Although, there are some flaws, but as I can see other commentators have already mentioned them
Really felt like your heart and soul was put into this video (which I bet it was), and I think that this is a perfect end-all-be-all video to document the fall of PvZ.
Great work!
Oooooohhh! I like this im buckling in and that music adds so well to the intro
This is a sad because it's such a beautiful masterpiece that corporate garbage threw a bucket of paint all over cause it was better than their garbage.
This is one of the best pvz videos ever! It's long and fun to watch but not too long to where it's boring. Just a great video!
This was one of the best videos i ve watched ever. I can feel the amount of research out into this and it being more than 2 and a half hours long... thats insane. Thank you for providing us theese information about this situation. I hope that both ea and pop cap tryes to save the pvz series. If they would try, they could
Mais outro vídeo bem feito Dane, mas esse é realmente especial! Eu agradeço a cada um dos funcionários da Pop Cap, por proporcionar momentos inesquecíveis, mesmo tendo zero de nostalgia pelo primeiro Plants vs Zombies, o jogo tem um lugar reservado no meu coração.
Levou um tempo pra digerir toda a informação presente no vídeo, mas deu certo. Foi um verdadeiro documentário jornalístico com muita pesquisa, informação, explicação precisa e críticas pessoais que realmente não tangenciaram o foco do assunto. Essa obra merece ser vista por mais pessoas, mesmo com a complicação criada pela barreira linguística.
Merry Christmas, Dane! You're pretty good!
i hear Toby Fox’s music in the background 👀
this is my first time to the channel and i really enjoyed this video! you did a great job on it, definitely gonna check out more :-)
absolutely amazing video, i enjoyed it a lot and also it was very easy to follow, how you narrated everything and your voice helped a lot, thank you for this THREE HOUR-long masterpiece.
pd: now do this video but with blizzard 🤪
Great video from start to finish, excellent editing great story and script. Took me a few sittings to finish it but it was worth it. Not a massive PVZ fan by any means but you were still able to keep my attention for nearly 3 hours great work :)