1505 Improving Your Battery Storage With Supercapacitors
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- čas přidán 8. 04. 2022
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Wow, I would love to see a real world example with a bank of your own home made batteries!!! Amazing. :D
That would be cool!
It's like one of those forehead-slapping "DUH!" moments. AWESOME! THANKS! I have a 160V supercapacitor bank I couldn't figure out what to do with and now I have an idea for it! I was about 5 minutes from breaking it down into smaller banks!
Legit learned more from you than anyone else.
wow cheers mate
As soon as I saw the title, I knew it was "All about the discharge rates."
You are brilliant, and I didn't even know I needed to find this.
I haven't been this excited about a youtube channel since I discovered the Victoria's Secret fashion channel! There was a moment during this that my brain said " I'm slowly starting to get it." I'll probably mark this day in my calendar. Keep them coming Robert!
Every time I watch your videos and go away for a few minutes I can't get back to it to finish it!
Thanks Rob, I have gotten more value from your channel than any other source I have found, short of going to College, but who has time for that!
Its funny how my shop mirrors yours since i have been watching for years. I miss the videos from your kitchen and back yard 🤣
I went to college, still value Rob more.
@@ianbutler1983 I do believe you 👍
lol - that was a while ago! - me to though I miss it lol
Rob, you've done it again. That SSR you were holding up is a solid state Relay, not a rectifier. But still, It was a truly excellent video as yours always are. Thanks!
Excellent video Rob, I love supercapacitors, they help to pick up the slack when you have a long wire to reach multiple loads which aren't all used at once.
nice one mate
You cover all the bases for battery power storage from home. Thank you, Robert.
You are amazing and I thoroughly enjoy your videos. Thank you!!!!
Thank you so much!
Very good video Robert. You put in a lot of Work doing this video and it's appreciated. Thanks Robert.
Answered a lot of questions that have been rolling in the back of my mind for some time. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Fantastic Rob, best explanation I have had the privilege of hearing. Thanks again.
wow - cheers mate
I had to join. I have taken so much from this channel
Brilliant Robert, great video, and a good reference source.
Brilliant information, one of your most useful videos yet!
cheers mate
Shout out from across the pond. Brilliant as always thank you learning a lot
awesome cheers mate
A VERY, VERY useful idea for many, many practical applications.
cheers mate
I would prefer your carbon megacap with your fractal BMS as a chemical battery front-end. I love watching a retired chemist learning entirely new basic science/tech - it's a good combination for helping the general public follow along and get interested themselves.
my thoughts exactly mate
Thank You for making me understand better...
Would love more indepth content on the subject! Have been trying to buffer my car battery with a 12v ultra cap cell to increase cranking amps and battery life
Short n sweet master class, nicely done.
Glad you liked it!
Thanks, nice to know!
cheers mate
Ty you for another great video and is a resolution to something ive been thinking about long time
cheers mate
Thanks for getting us out of the dog-house with our batteries!
Thank Robert for sharing this, I learned a lot
cheers mate
Brilliant! Some food for thought.
That's pretty impressive... Thanks again!
Glad you liked it!
I been thinking about this a lot. For EV use. Use a combination of storage media LAB for the bulk amperage and super caps for burst acceleration and storage of regenerative energy from braking. But to broke to do it. Same old same old....
it is being heavily investigated for exactly that mate - but yeah money is an issue
Great Video As Always Rob
I Do Have The Same Super Capacitors That You Have Got On Your Bench..I Made An Super Capacitor Bank With Charging Handle. 12 and 5 Volts Out..Works Well...But The Voltage Leak On The Super Capacitors Is Not Good..Should Of Gone For Maxwell Super Capacitors.
I'm Going To Use A Battery In The Charger As Well And Thanks To The Great Video I Now Know How To Do It...Many Thanks
awesome mate - keep me up today with your progress will you?
Now I have to go back to your older videos to recall how to make some super capacitors and add them to my solar power bank.
Fantastic videos. Keep them coming😁🙏✌️🤘
cheers mate
Very interesting as always.
A how to make a homemade battery installation for dummies video would be awesome.
He has alot of videos on that.
I have done a fair few on that subject mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering yes you have and they are awesome.
The Haynes manual that used to come with cars used to show you everything.. now there's just a card that says don't drink the battery water.
@@timbenham516 I would be interested in a step by step guide.
@@timbenham516 how far back do you know?
The fast discharge rate vs. life at 1min53 sec was most useful. Home made batteries was the second most useful part for me. I've looked into super caps. for car batteries.
Thank you.
cheers mate
Except that having the supercaps does nothing to change that discharge rate.
Thanks for clearing this up, Robert! Apart from the car industry, do you see any other emerging technologies or applications that will demand a combination of a 'slow' battery with supercaps?
Building a 300,000 farad 48v super capacitor room , I’m a madman 😂
Good stuff.
Thanks!
Thank you Bud =) .........Was really hoping you would address the battery to cap issue........Some lithium Ion batteries instantly failed in this kind of set up, actually over discharging to fill the cap.......
lithium is notoriously delicate - a little control electronics is needed if using lithium - you can only really connect a lead acid straight up and even then it's not the best
Thanks to you
cheers mate
I now make my packs with LiFePO4 batteries. eliminates that nasty explody burny issue.
if we take some ideas from 1502 altenators and mix them with this 1505 supercapacitors video it gets me thinking about a simple add-on mild hybrid for older cars.
Now you've got me thinking...
awesome
I have seen people putting super capacitors parallell with a small RC battery in place of a starter battery. The RC battery provides power to the radio/lights/door locks, and the super cap handles the current spike on starting.
Seems to work in the videos, but of course it limits the power available without the engine running.
it limits the power to the power you set it at by the size of your capacitor bank - but as this set up is really for peak shaving - the over all power shouldn't be limited if it is the cap bank has been wrongly sized
I hear Sir Anthony Hopkins is set to portray you in the movie about your life.
I ❤ your vids they are great
They would be good for regenerative braking, in electric vehicles too.
Interesting facts
Thank you Rob, I find this very interesting :)
What about deep cycle battery's from a camper/caravan?
Cheers!
What about them? - they're designed so you get many more charge cycles out of them than a standard 12V car battery, but the possible charge and discharge current is much less than the standard battery.
Somebody put capasitor in the load of solar charger, what did it to maybe charge better
Great Knowledge Share Robert. Now that I have a sailboat I will create a power system with this method. You mentioned Homemade Batteries. Any vids for Best Marine Battery? Cheers :)
I am sorry mate - no - not specifically
Your work intrigues me, have you considered making a material capable of being cured with UV light? It could then be printed on a resin 3d printer into whatever shape you desire
Thanks ! Any remedy for Mecer ups which seems to be programed to switch of after 10 minutes ?
This is similar to an idea I had but at a much smaller scale.
The stability and efficiency of the grid relies on the supply and load being in near perfect balance. Too much supply and the grid voltage rises and things go pop. Too much load and the voltage sags and you get blackouts. One of the main problems is that the grid supply is slow to respond. It can take upwards of 30mins from the demand increasing to a power plant upping its output, so predicting when the load is going to increase is important. There's obvious times. 7am and people get up and stick the kettle on. (While one 1kVA load is insignificant, 10 million 1kVA loads on the other hand.) So here's the idea, have homes install "powerwalls" that can balance the demand at the load side, rather than the supply side. everyone gets up and sticks the kettle on, or there's an ad break just before a world cup final penalty shootout (so everyone gets up and grabs another beer from the fridge) and rather than having to predict exactly when the load surge is going to happen, the load side energy storage supplies the demand locally, and then slowly recharges over the course of the day while your out at work. Add in some smart metering so the supply knows how much has been used, and you can keep the grid in near perfect balance.
Probably explained that badly, but I'm sure you get the idea!
I like it, sounds like something RMS should do a video on.
Reminds me - can't recall the channel, but some years ago, I found a few videos of a guy who replaced his car battery with a super capacitor bank system that weighed like a 10th of the L/A batrery. No idea about longevity, but he claimed it made it though at least a couple winter weeks in a follow up vid.
You mean LaserSaber? I still follow him, he's a knowledgeable man, he recently started posting new video's. Because of his video I added 6 supercaps (with a control circuit to prevent overcharging them) in my car and extended the live of my battery many years!
@@deslomeslager Sounds like the channel and good to hear he's posting again. And good to know its legit too. I convinced a friend to give it a try years ago, but he couldn't get it soldered right for whatever reason and gave up calling it fake.
lasersaber
I have an off-grid 400W solar kitchen assist system. Our house is on grid energy. I ran parallel wiring into kitchen so we can choose between grid or off-grid power by plugging into desired wall plug. It sends solar energy into a 3000W inverter that is secondary power for our kitchen small appliances. It can power the large refrigerator/freezer during the day but the 400Ah battery bank is not quite enough to power frig through night.
Can a Supercap be used to inject power into the battery bank in early morning hours so energy in bank could hold up until sun shines to recharge system power?
I'd have to know more about super caps to know how to apply them. Are they more flexible for charging? (Like trickle charging from solar panels, or extreme fast charging from daisy chaining solar panels). I know that the electric motors I have around the house have two capacitors. One is a run capacitor, the other is a start capacitor. I think my AC might run the same way.
Power Factor Correction if you all want to learn more
cheers mate
You ever try replacing the battery electrolyte with lithium sulfate?
I thunk I'll just sacrifice the battery and save all the hoopla !!
Would it be feasible or useful to add a car audio capacitor to a basic solar power bank setup on leadacid? I have a system that runs a converted chest freezer fridge and the power draw on startup triggers the low voltage alarm when it starts. After the initial startup however it only draws around 80W or so. The car audio caps I've looked at range from 2-5 farad ratings. If it was hooked up parallel to the inverter would this provide the boost needed for startup of an inductive load? Thanks
hello Rob would the balancing circuits for the super capacitors theyu supply work similar to the dc to dc converter or would both the balancing circuit and the converter be best,as im looking at putting a super cap buffer onto my high powered ebike of 84 volts to take greater advantage of regen
Robert I think that would cause more problems than it would solve. A capacitor wants to push out everything it’s got. A converter or regulator will take all that and turn it into heat and waste it. The capacitor May lesson the load on the windmill and trigger the braking system which is usually done by adding a load to the system.
you might want to have al look at the research mate - nothing I said here is beyond what has already been done and investigated
@@ThinkingandTinkering i’m not doubting you one bit my friend. Those were just some of my concerns. I think I spoke before I really thought about it lol. Electronics and super capacitors or a game changer today.
Good Video. Just a quick question on inverters if any one is savy. We all know that current is only drawn when there is demand, ok so my question is actually do inverters have built in protection to limit there output. So say my home is using 2Kw of power and I have a small 200w inverter suplementing the house while drawing 1.8kw from the grid. What sort of circuit in the inverter protects it from having more than the 200w being drawn? Cheers if anyone knows.
I think it depends on your inverter mate - cheap ones - no - but more expensive ones will have current limiting as a feature - I would guess - but you really need a better answer and I am sure others on here have a better one - cheers
Im very interested in using supercap to lighten the burden my car has on my leaded battery. Could i achieve this by connecting a bank of supercaps to a solar charger that outputs 12v and have the supercaps permanently in parallel to the car battery? Or its not simple as that. Thanks.
I have made a super capacitor for my car battery, it is cheap, my car has better horse power, and electric gadgets works better. There are many videos doing this.
Bit of a different topic but same components. A lot of the concepts scavenge energy, relatively low energy. Can that energy be.accumulated by super capacitor then transferred to the battery even if the energy source has lower voltage than the battery? You mostly spoke of the supercaps leveling energy spikes.
When Rob talks batteries, I shut up and listen lol
Q. how difficult would it be to reproduce my favorite battery ( the original Edison) and have you ever made 1? or do you plan to make 1 in the future, some are over 100 years old and still work like new. would love to hear your thoughts.
I have made nickel iron - Walt Noon does a great paper on their construction
This video starts to answer a question i had for you a few years back. How can you capture the power of a lightning bolt and use that power to slowly charge a battery bank. Should the power be drained from the atmosphere before the discharge bolt so i don't risk killing myself?
have a look here this may help czcams.com/video/F6pqfZMkWpU/video.html
🤔 🤯 Ask Dr Frankenstein...?
Can i connect two inverters to make a higher watt inverter is it possible
Hi, I'm a new subscriber and had a question I was hoping you could answer. I want to use something like this system to smooth out and help a grid tie inverter for maximum efficiency. As I understand it, the diagram would be as follows. Solarpanel -> mppt -> Battery -> Dc-dc Converter -> Supercap -> Grid Tie Inverter -> Home . Unfortunately, you los\st me at the relay thing and now I have no idea what this circuit would look like. If It's not a bother, could you help me a bit with what I should do?
I have a idea for a generator that is a washing machine motor, flywheel from a v eight, the Bendix off starters, inverter off one of four generator's going to a bank of super capacitors running the inverter to run power supply to run washing machine motor, will it work my friend?
Could you use that as a way to hook up power from different sources (solar and wind) to the same battery
Most of the larger integrated solar charge controllers nowadays have connections for the battery bank (including individual cell monitoring), a three phase AC inverter (up to 25KW continuous output, and the ability to seamlessly charge from solar, wind, and even shore power or automotive or any combination of those at the same time.
The Chinese have had them for years now. They are the innovators in this field. You can buy them online but many aren't yet UL listed so caveat emptor applies. But due to tariffs and shipping inflation they aren't as inexpensive as at first blush they appear. However, it remains that the technology is quite well developed already by the Chinese and there's a thriving domestic market for them.
They're often described as a "solar inverter" when searching for them online.
They are programmable with different power profiles. So they can easily be reconfigured for a battery upgrade - even if the cell chemistry used changes. They are quite versatile.
yes - several systems have been researched to do exactly that - have a quick look on google scholar with hybrid battery supercapacitor micro generation as key words
You have a nice place to experiment. Can I draw your attention to something else? Heat batteries that is. Just sand, resistance heating, container and insulator. Use solar panel electricity to heat up the sand up to 500c and use it later to heat the environment
I was thinking about cylinder design, and besides making composites with graphene, couldn’t graphene ultra capacitors be used as Filler in an O Neil Cylinder?
It should have sufficient strength, or you could design it with strength in mind, storing more energy than a battery made out of concrete.
Using any other battery chemistry in a cylinder would necessitate it being replaced every so often.
- It would be nice to just have a set and forget graphene ultra-capacitor that you replaced every 50 to 100 years. And for the flywheels story, most of the power, that’s just in the material strength.
Thank you so muck 🙏 I'll wait for further episodes, I'm sure You know who is the killer 🤡🙏🙏🙏
indeed
Please let me know what you think
Here's a what if. For domestic use. you have a Iron and salt based Redox flow batterie with supercapacitors for the quick high load. I give this as an example, because I have been trying (Not always successfully) to produce energy storage with very simple everyday items that are cheap and environmentally ok, even if they are not super energy dense. what are your thoughts ?
I have a suggestion - and I will be doing a video on it today - in the members area of course - most of my battery stuff these days goes to the members area as you know - cheers mate
Got myself A millennium 3 cd20 relay controller ( marketplace 95 euros) ,, I’m nog looking for some super caps ,i have a 33kw 51,2v 646ah 14s200p li-ion battery.. and I’m planning to get a istabreeze I2000 .. and the max out of it ,, any advice for the capacity of the capacitor bank?..gr denny
Exactly ✅ - I have taken it back to Static Storage and then Down Convert "that" back to 440v 50 Amp 5-Phase 🏁
.. Tesla's Coil was not Intended as "A Static Generator" ( although it does That too ) - it was for Static-to-High Current Regeneration ✅✅✅
. ( thus, The 3-Layer Water Turbine, The Marx Generator Chain's and The Auto-Filling Accumulator's. ) .. using Crow-Bars Arc so Nicely.!
. . . my original thoughts were to use Nuclear Batteries but they don't exactly Store Charges without that little Pluming Mushroom T___T
lol - no indeed they don't
I have a 16.8V 1000F (6s2p ,2.8V 3000F cells) that I use in my car with a small 10W solar panel. Because of the low internal resistance, I have been able to turn over the car at as low as 7V. Lowest I've got is 6V with a push start (it is standard, not automatic).
I have been wanting to use a DC-DC converter not to charge from a lead-acid, but to extract the useful stored energy below 6V. It's not easy finding a 200A rated 12V boost converter that can run down from 1V or lower. But in the off chance that there is no such product, I wonder if anyone would be interested in me designing a low voltage extremely high current boost converter specifically for supercapacitors and low voltage cells?
How hard would it be to take hydrogen from a battery bank and compress it for later use or use it for hot water, heating or fuel cells?
it doesn't produce a great deal mate - enough to be an issue but not really that much
I'd suggest LTO chemistry cells instead of supercapacitors. They're much cheaper than supercapacitors at present and have much greater energy density. I recently bought a 552Wh (2.3V, 20Ah, 12S) battery for £110. I intend to use it for an instantaneous hot water tap (90°C) for making tea and coffee.
Hi Vino, where did you get your LTO's from? Great chemistry choice for very cold climates like mine.
it would still work with LTOs mate - in supercapacitor terms every battery is a snail lol
6:00
Solid state RELAY, not rectifier.
It would be very interesting if Tesla would use a bank of super capacitors for taking all the power during regenerative breaking. Then split their battery pack into two sections at 400 volts each. The capacitors would dump their energy into the lowest voltage battery section, then that section would rest while the other section powers the motors. Both batteries would be used in parallel while under hard acceleration. When charging the battery sections would be arranged in series for an 800 volt fast charge. When driving everything is still configured for 400 volts. I wonder if the extra effort would make financial sense.
i got lost once you strted talking about the dc to dc converter and the switch. Could you go more in deep about it
Put a super-cap across a battery and you're got a (brief, but damaging) short circuit. Trust me on that.
certainly - if you mismatch them - put a 2.7 volt supercap across a a 1.5 volt battery and all that will happen is you supercap will charge - put a 12 volts battery across the same super capacitor and you will blow the supercpapacitor - plus what I suggested being done - hassocks been done - of course it was done by folks who knew not to mismatch the cap
@@ThinkingandTinkering I've put 2 x 2.7 volt supercaps in series across a 3.3v LiPo and melted leads, arced contacts, etc. The instantaneous current is something to be accounted for.
LoL,preslice trees.
Varnish with that. LoL
lol
Can someone help me make a supercap battery to run in parallel ,after my 8S, 24VDC 300Ah lifepo4 pack, so my inverter and solar charge controllers have a chance to shut down at 10.5vdc before one of the lifepo4 cells ,shuts the pack down above 10.5 vdc? In theory. The 8s pack should make it that low, but it never does. Both the inverter and solar charge controller warn to "NEVER DISCONNECT BATTERY FIRST OR UNDER LOAD FIRST". The supercap pack would not need to work long at all. It just needs to handle the high amps of charge/discharge, and to reach 10.5 vdc after lifepo4 shutdown.
I don't get the need for a DC to DC convert what?
Lots of words here but all this would be much more useful if the ideas were implemented with instruments to show the effect being discussed. I still have yet to see (perhaps I missed it) a light bulb being lit up by any of the devices shown in these videos.
Light bulbs are very poor examples of power. They're really easily faked, require a wide variety of power input, and are very nonspecific as a meter.
Robert regularly includes meter readings on all his generator videos. Which is how it should be done.
This particular video is more a "thought exercise" not a demonstration. He will sometimes offer a demonstration later if necessary.
there are lots of examples - you could try my suggestion and have a look on google scholar - but I suppose that would take you doing something - so why on earth would you do that?
You could always make the big ass capacitor the guy in Australia made from beer bottles and a 5 gallon bucket but very dangerous in my mind.
that was a scam mate - caps don't work that way
@@ThinkingandTinkering Wow I can usually figure those out but my electrical knowledge is poor thanks
What is. Joe cell in this. Fusion content
Peukerts law. All to do with internal resistance. Much less of a problem for lithium ion. I've not understood why capacitors haven't been combined with battery tec.
they. have - it could be you are a little behind mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering lol, maybe
I believe some ev's use super caps with their regen braking.
they do
1 question when are your batteries coming out? lol :)
as soon as I can get them produced
Where is your Graphene ?????
How would this affect the available run time though?
Probably not much better, might even be worse due to all the power conversion losses. The main motivation seems to be to improve battery health rather than increased output energy
@@sumitmamoria no, sorry, I should have explained further. Surely the capacitors will have a limited storage; smaller than the bank of batteries, so the output from the capacitors, which can handle a higher output, will be limited - before your back to using the battery and should limit max output to save it from damage..? I guess on second thoughts it will run almost as long but will provide a buffer of protection for run times that don’t exceed the storage in the capacitors, before they recharge
not much - this is really peak shaving and to cope with high power demand over short periods of time - like starting a motor - the start of a. motor has a very high draw the running of a motor much much less - you are using the caps to be in the middle of that and they are tied to the battery bank - you second comment was pretty good by the way
👍💪🙏
cheers mate
A solution for poor Peukert's values.
"A BATTERY is the EXACT equivalent
of an EMPTY gas tank.
You have to put energy IN them BOTH!
99.99% of EV's
are FOSSIL-FUELED.