Revisiting the Supercapacitor - The Wait for Graphene is Over
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
- Revisiting the Supercapacitor - The Wait for Graphene is Over. Pre-order the Ecoflow Delta Pro starting on December 15th or get up to $650 off for other products through Christmas: bit.ly/EcoflowDeltaPro. There's been lot of hype about graphene since it was first discovered and called a breakthrough. But we're still waiting for the next big thing. That's starting to change. A newly announced supercapacitor from Skeleton Technologies could make a big impact on the renewable energy market. Let's revisit graphene, the supercapacitor, ultracapacitor, how it compares to lithium ion batteries, and when and where it's going to start making an impact.
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I love my maxwell super capacitor. 1800 cca it lessen the heavy draws on my batteries. Let the capacitor do the cycling. Like bass hitting on a car stereo. Add the super capacitor and your headlights don't dim when bass hits. The hard cycle is not placed on your battery. I couldn't run my skill saw all day off the solar and lead acid batteries without the super capacitor. The charge time is great within minutes of sun rise and I can be sawing. I use mine more as a soft start. The car stereo is the best way I found to explain of how super capacitors fit in and work. I believe they help extend life of batteries and other solar equipment. You might have one in your car if you have a big amplifier.
Hey Matt, hoping to see you address the video showing poor research on your hydrogen storage video. I like your content but seeing the information missed makes me wonder whether I can trust the rest of your content.
I think capitalism is a dangerous gatekeeper of technological progress
Inject it into people and turn them into trans robots or spray it on to their food water oh the possibilities! Gates rubbing his hands
What we need to drive this forward is a good old fashioned world war. Wars have driven technologies forward faster than "free market forces" because war doesn't care about profits.
Like others have pointed out, using this tech for regen braking is the better goal in mind. A lot of energy is wasted in regen braking because you can't charge the battery quickly enough, but to capture all that energy in an ultracapacitor, and then, release that energy to accelerate would make a pretty dramatic difference in range. Then, the battery can just be used for cruising and operating all the instruments.
I feel like it's "hyped" In plenty less useful applications but early implementation of new technology takes a while to settle into low attention, high utility results.
Trains
The problem with using ultra-capacitors in passenger vehicles to assist in capturing energy from regenerative braking is that they take up too much space. And they add some weight that reduces range, although that might be cancelled out by the additional energy that can be recaptured by regen braking. But the space needed to have them in enough quantities to make a difference is not negligible in passenger vehicles. They might make make sense in electric vans or other bigger vehicles if the cost isn't to high where there's a foreseeable return on investment.
@@buildmotosykletist1987 On Model 3 you want regen and the capacitor voltages to be around 384V in order to be able to charge the battery pack. Skeleton Technologies SCH3400 ultra-capacitors are 2.85V. We would need 135 in series to match the voltage (could do multiples of 135 to increase storage). Based on their datasheet, 135 of them weigh 71.55 kg and take up 52.65 L of space (that's just the capacitors with no threaded posts and no electronics needed to manage them). That's 157.74 extra pounds and 1.86 cubic feet. As for the energy storage capabilities, the math on that is a bit more complex because a capacitor's voltage drops as it is discharged and if their voltage drops below a certain amount above the current high voltage battery pack voltage, it won't charge it. You also have to take time into consideration for those calculations, and regen usually lasts from a few seconds to probably not more than 10 seconds.
It’s pretty surprising how many areas are using Supercapacitors already, JBL & Bose speakers integrate them in devices, also in energy plants/transmission lines it’s common to find “capacitor banks” which help collect a certain range of power that would benefit from SCs
A great quote from the CEO of a super-capacitor company: “we’re not in the kilowatt-hour business; we’re in the megawatt-second business!”
I’m removing my post.
No one has my sense of humor. And I confused the units in my explanation.
@@sirifail4499 It's true that a kWh is 3.6 times more total energy than a MWs. However, batteries may put out 1kW power for 1h, while super-capacitors may put out 1 MW power for 1s. The CEO is saying that the super-capacitor can put out much more power for a short time, having high power density. But the energy density is less for the super-capacitor.
@@sirifail4499, exactly, but not exactly: a Kilowatt is a unit of *power* , not of *energy* . A kilowatt-hour is a unit of *energy* : the amount of energy delivered by a Kilowatt source over an hour’s time (or to total energy consumed by a Kilowatt load over an hour’s time).
@@sirifail4499 I think you didn't understand the statement. The JOKE is that a kilowatt-hour is roughly the same as a megawatt-second. The POINT is that this energy storage is FAST. High power NOT high energy.
For the layman: "We don't care about storing a lot of energy (for a long time), we care about (low energy but) high power applications."
@@michaelrenper796, yes, that is the joke. Actually I think @Siri Fail got the joke, but just one or two minor slip-ups between W vs. Wh, which is a very easy tongue-twist mistake to make.
Minor correction: the conductivity of graphene is due to the mobility of its electrons, not its atoms (which, as you say, are covalently bonded to their neighbors).
When I started investigating capacitors and the famous 555 timer chip I was able to configure a cattle feeder that would have saved 3/4ths of the fuel cost for feeding cattle on the farm. Dad died and I wasn't able to complete the application. Basically I used a 1-1/2 volt cell battery to fire a 1967 Chevy starter solenoid via a capacitor controlled by a resistor. The 555 timer allowed me to change the rate of charging the capacitor so that it would open the drop doors to the hay feeder, every day or every other day. in the interim of charging on the road. Capacitors could hold a second BEV battery charge in a tiny space.
I'd like to see regenerative braking in consumer vehicles incorporate this technology. Start up cycles for HD electric motors such as AC compressors. Lots of possibilities here. Great content, thanks!
Thanks for watching!
Fwiw, the start up of most electric motors above the US 110 volt standard is accomplished with capacitors already. These "ultracaps" may reduce the size of the current ones but not make any impact on energy consumption. What this could do for EV charging times would do much to shorten the days before the electric auto is thoroughly on the ground. Further, using them to help with momentary spikes in power demand would go a long way toward making renewables like wind, solar and geothermal a better fit within out existing systems. No matter what we do, Big Oil and Big Utility aren't going away- engineering to better use renewables matched with the resources of those entities is the shortest time frame to the goals of 2030 and beyond. FR
Where Ultra capacitors would benefit BEV is in the longevity of the battery. Rapid charging and discharging batteries builds up heat in the battery that damages it. If ultra capacitors could eliminate or at least minimize those surges this damage to the battery could be greatly reduced. It could also allow for a significantly reduced cooling systems. They could also allow faster charging of BEV you rapid charge the battery to 80% and the ultra capacitors slowly finish charging the battery.
@@matthewhuszarik4173 Isn't it a better idea in general to charge a very big supercapacitor at the charge station, and let that slowly charge a (smaller) lithium battery while driving?
@@zackarynortley3896 basically all EV's have that
Have to say that these videos are packed with information in a most well-organized and digestible way. Only two, and I became a subscriber. Kudos, Matt! I coming back for more.
I think you’re doing a great job at getting the newest info, thank you. I’m 75 and hope to see a lot come from Graphene.
I am super grateful for tutorials like this, and of course these videos would not exist if not for those people that have invested ...
Thank you
Very interesting. I've been following the hype on graphne for a while, and it's gratifying to see it start moving toward practical usage. Looking forward to the next update on this.
You and me both!
I would like to see more of these videos where you reexplore a technology of past videos with an update on the latest developments.
And once it start to go commercial, make a series of video called "DEcided" as in we're starting to use the technology in everyday business. It would be very beneficial not just to highlight the technology but also to help convince more people ot use them ( a bit like you did with your video on your home solar panels).
👍I'm going to try to keep doing revisits like this. There's a few already in the works.
@@UndecidedMF Nice! And thanks for the reply :)
Lol First episode of DEcided "Betamax -Didn't make it"
I second this!
Agree- such as laser solid hydrogen? That's the least credible product to which you've recently given an uncritical review, Matt. You need to bring a physicist onboard, someone with practical knowledge about the wild-claim inventions you are reviewing. You're good at making pretty pictures, though.
Very inspiring and Exciting Matt. I look forward to more information and progress in the technology. Thanks.
Thank you for the video. First Graphene in Australia are starting to do some amazing things with Graphene. Happy New Year!!!
Matt thanks so much for making these very high quality videos which make evolving technology information more accessible to the masses. This is a very important role, and you are doing a great job!
Glad you like them!
Yes, I am one of those masses and I found the video very helpful.
Fantastic delivery. Thank you so much for sticking to what you do best. I even watched the dang commercial.
Very nice presentation, thanks for your input. I'm using EDLC super capacitors in my projects from 2007. They help the battery, which has great capacity but high internal resistance and they last for years. First ones had a tendency to leak. Also their rated voltage is low, about 2.5 to 2.8V. So there must be at least five in series for 12V and they must be balanced. Since their principle of working is electrostatic, they have completely different charge/discharge characteristic then batteries. So their usage as a main power source isn't very plausible, but together with batteries is where their synergy really comes to life and is very useful. I look at graphene capacitors as a next step in evolution, mainly getting smaller and more power dense. Definitely a way to go.
I love hearing about such amazing developments in the realm of Graphene, Hydrogen, and, of course, Spacecraft. Lovely video man, It is amazing that such an amazing material is getting more love.
@@rogerstarkey5390 Bet you're fun at parties
Thanks for watching!
@@rogerstarkey5390
Actually hydrogen has a very good energy storage capacity if you combine it with other materials like carbon or nitrogen.
Ammonia, gasoline, diesel, ethanol etc. are all having a very good energy density and they are based on hydrogen and nitrogen or hydrogen and carbon combination.
@@nikokapanen82 Hydrogen in metallic form. I was amazed when that news came out. Like dice made of compressed hydrogen, like that seams impossible right.
I wonder how graphene holds up to cosmic radiation.
Extremely interesting products. Could see the Ultracapacitors pairing up well with L ion batteries as you could harvest much more energy from regen braking and then dump it out very quickly when the car pulls off thereby saving the L ion battery from having to absorb or provide short bursts of high current which is what damages them.
If such technology can be minitaruised it could mean personal devices could harness kinetic energy got make batteries power last longer.
I think the whole idea of Graphene is to replace Lithium because of its heat & fire factors
Just a quick note for @Undecided with Matt Ferrell : The city depicted at 9:41 isn't Mannheim. It's actually Dresden, where skeleton is running one of their major facilities in Germany.
Not true, Skeleton employs supercaps on the trams in Mannheim. Its mentioned in Skeleton website of use cases
Glad you are producing these videos. It gives me hope for the future. Thank You!🤔
Glad to hear that! Thank you.
I really appreciate the effort you put into adding the sound effects to all the B-roll. Your videos keep getting better and better. Thanks!
Glad you like them!
This is one of my favorite technologies in terms of energy management optimization. I marvel at all the potential applications for it and would love to see it steadily implemented in the coming years.
At least this is a clean and sustainable tech unlike mining a finite supply of lithium carbonate controlled by China and other countries. IMO it's just a matter of time till they can develop higher energy density rivaling or even surpassing Lithium batteries.
Thank you for the things I have learned watching this videos.
When I first saw Graphene I thought of early lasers, which were sometimes called "a solution in search of a problem". Not that I doubted lasers, but it took a bit of time for them to really take of. I deeply expect Graphene will do the same.
We already have problems for graphene to solve
@Mirror Space I've always taken that phrase to mean that it was so new and so potentially useful we've only nibbled at possible applications.
intellectual property is restricted to the imagination of its owner.
Semiconductor efficiency is running into a hard limit in silicon based transistors. A lot of the improvements in semiconductor performance came from shrinking the transistors so they use less power and can operate faster. But further gains are becoming harder and harder. Current most modern components are manufactured at a lithography of about 7nm varying on the manufacturer. You can get that to 3, maybe 2. The improvements from that are not that big anymore and beyond that it becomes really pointless. With graphene semiconductors can be built a lot smaller and they can be more efficient too.
Graphene coated Li Ion batteries might increase battery capacity by quite a lot, also reduces the wear by a ton.
There are so many applications for Graphene once we figured out how to mass produce it costeffectively.
I had one of the first LaserDisc players, but 'they' had already come up with quite a few low and high power lasers and applications by then. Still... my player had its own little optical bench inside and a HeNe tube laser and little signal adjusted mirrors and primary lens. It was cool when I got my new player and this became my first little laser lab. Played music on the ceiling type stuff. Nothing serious. I had a Jacob's ladder in the '70s too I almost killed myself with one day. This is all that it left. ;-)
This, to me, is maybe one of the most interesting topics of modern times. Thanks for keeping us in the loop, Matt!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks as always, Robotrav.
I came across graphene a little while ago as I was interested in a strong but light material. But not just strong and light, the strongest and lightest. Anyway, if production advances we could have some very strong sheets for different sorts of applications.
I think there is a huge future for this in the near future. Of course part of the challenge he mentions is the overproduction of solar and wind and how it destabilizes the grid but if you have a built-in process for transforming all of the excess store in wind energy into hydrogen regionally than you remove that instability and challenge. This looks like a very promising technology and I hope they continue to move forward to evolve it and can't wait to see them go public!
@@rogerstarkey5390 Yes! You mean *currently*....
@@rogerstarkey5390 YES - if you believe that energy & tech keep improving according to Moore's law - which it does. Hello?!
@@rogerstarkey5390 unfortunately we already are discovering novel berrilium meta-clathrate phosphide battery chemistries which deliver 3.2 tbnts- [number of electrons available to power stuff] per picogram of core materials mass than best in class solid state battery chemistry which produces 0.9 tbnt's per picogram of core materials.
When that time comes.... Hahaha hydrogen and all its arrogant potential can soak its nose with mud... Aka we won't need it
I just liked video right away without even listening first word. Title of video overwhelmed me. You always come with great videos.
Great step forward. Thanks Matt.
6:51 It's interesting that Graphene was supposedly first discovered in 2004 yet Skeleton Technologies "Curved Graphene" has been a closely guarded secret since the 1990's.
"Curved" graphene isn't graphene. Graphene is 2D. ANY curvature makes it 3D. Curved graphene is likely a reference to nanotubes or sections of nanotubes.
@@bnjmnwst Dr Yiwei Sun, lead author of the study from Queen Mary University of London, said: "Graphene owes its thickness to an array of chemical bonds sticking out above and below the 2D plane of carbon atoms. Hence graphene is really a 3D material, albeit with a very small thickness.
"By applying conventional 3D theory, which has been used for around 400 years, to 2D materials such as graphene, which have been known for 15 years, we show that similar arguments apply to other so-called 2D materials, such as boron nitride and molybdenum disulphide. In that sense, 2D materials are actually all 3D."
Graphene is often called the world's first two-dimensional material. It was discovered in 2004 by peeling off graphene flakes from bulk graphite (used in pencil leads and lubricants) using sticky tape.
It is regarded as part of a new class of 2D materials and it is currently modelled by scientists as a sheet of atoms with very little depth, hence the name 2D material.
I didn't look into it but the curved graphene might have been a theoretical discovery in the 1990s while they produced real graphene in 2004
Are u saying they already made a time machine using graphine? Predestination.
I would not have expected a woman to pick up on such a nuance. Good for you girl!. Now fetch me a sandwich and a beer.
Graphene is the silicon and laser beam of the future. And many of its future applications might not even be known by now.
The question is if we can figure out how to take advantage of it and actually make meaningful products. This is the first one hitting the market that's given me a glimmer of hope. Graphene headphones don't count ... lol.
@@UndecidedMF Yes, fully agree. It took the laser about 30 years before mass products like CD and DVD were invented. I see the same with Graphene, that maybe has even more potential.
@@UndecidedMF
Any thoughts as to its application being used in the vac-cines?
@@freespeech4all723 Why would graphene be put in a vaccine?
@@UndecidedMF It will undoubtedly work out. As with any promising technology, if there is enough funding and potential, then there will literally be no limit to how far we are going to push its potential usecases. Plastic is the best example of this, it has been used in the best and worst products of the 21st century. Graphene will undoubtedly see the same exposure in both meaningless AND meaningful products.
I recently did an experimental project in collaboration with Jaguar, for a flying personal vehicle that had a core frame built upon the principles of energy storage in carbon fibre and graphene-enhanced battery/capacitor structures, all weaved into the frame itself to take advantage of weight saving. Big companies certainly are opening their eyes to the potential of these technologies, and as soon as the proper scalability is reached, the technology will see very clever use.
I remember seeing your video about graphene, I thought it was much further away. I'm glad its closer than I thought. you should do more of these follow up videos in the future.
Never thought that I would see my university in one of your videos, never felt cooler. Great video and cheers from Estonia!
I like the idea of using those batteries as part of a "UPS" system for an entire building. Have the "Super Batteries" carry the load after your grid source goes down while waiting for the generator to kick in. That usually only takes a minute or two for one of the big diesel generators with auto-changeover.
Big emergency generators are required to startup and take full load in 10 seconds, that has been the standard for decades, hospitals at several hundred kW, to nuclear plants with emergency generators rated at thousands of kW.
@@fredrosse It probably was under a minute (definitely longer than 10 seconds) changeover at the TV station I worked at for 20 years. But it FELT like it took for ever!
@@michiganengineer8621 OK, the time frame you have experienced is the result of the design criteria (or lack thereof) that was applied to your TV station. However the 10 second criteria is pretty universal in critical applications, where backup generators are specified. Virtually all backup generator manufacturers are willing to comply with the 10 second starting and loading criteria. I agree that 10 seconds is not necessary for many applications, however it is the almost universal standard for the industry.
Datacenters use direct-thru inertial (kinetic) generators to get time for diesels to kick in seamless. Basicaly it's just vacuumed (or not) heavy flywheels on magnetic(or not) bearings mechanically connected to motor-generator pairs.
@@fredrosse they also have loads of lead acid batteries to cover the time between power failure and generatorer up and spinning so this would be a good solution to replace the lead acid.
I now view Matt as my go to guy for new technology and have become a subscriber. His reviews are well researched and well presented. Thank you Matt.
Fascinating video. Looks like there's huge potential alongside current and future battery tech.
always interesting topics, thanks
From past presentations for the supercapacitor for battery storage, I thought the main benefit was the length of time to charge was instantaneous, as compared to chemical stored batteries. This would be very impactful for Electric vehicles where the wait for charging is a major disadvantage over filling up with gas. My understanding of the problem was that they also discharged instantaneously. Without strong engineering knowledge, I thought it would be possible to have many supercapacitors that could be charged instantly and consumed in series, just like gasoline that has the energy density that is released instantly when the spark ignites the explosion. The higher the power requirement, the more of the stored capacitors would be consumed.
It is great to see these new possibilities. Thanks, Matt, for keeping up on the latest developments.
Physics of conductor sizes and connector design dictate the current and voltage you can charge something at, whether battery, or supercapacitor. We probably won't be able to build the infrastructure everywhere to be able to charge a supercapacitor car "instantly" as that would require HUGE currents or voltages to push the energy a house consumes in 3 days into a car.
If you can wait 5 minutes from empty, then that would only require an average charging of 1000V at 500A.
Something we can definitely do. But from there it starts to get a little crazy, 2.5 minute charge would require double the 500kW 5 minute charge of 1MW. Yes 1MW, that's on the order of power generation stations today. Double that to 1.25 minute charge and that's 2MW, or enough to power 1,600 homes.
Let's keep going, a 45 sec 0-100 charge would require 4MW, 22.5 sec 8MW, 11.25 sec 16MW, and finally just under 6 secs would require 32MW, in other words, a direct connection to a small-medium sized power generating station.
I could settle for 5 minutes.
@@chrisjacobsen1659 1.21 gigawats? Great Scott!
No, the ability to discharge almost instantaneously is an advantage, not a disadvantage. You can ways alow the process down. As the video said, the disadvantage is the energy density.
It's not instant but thats mostly due to the limits of what can be transmited down a conductor safely (as in not making your wire catch fire) If you can get enough conductor capacity yes you can top off a capacitor in seconds although its a balancing act of what is practical to do. There's also the issue of energy density. Lion batteries that can power an EV for a couple hundred miles can fit under the floor/seat of the car. To do the same with super capacitors you'd need to be towing a trailer to carry them. Chargeing it fast would also be a strain on the grid. It would probably require haveing a bank of super capacitors at the charge point that charge off the grid over time and then dump it into your mobile capacitor in a minute or two depending on the current your conductors can handle.
"they do discharge instantaneously" is the wrong understanding here. the speed of discharge depends on the load. the capacitor does not define the speed of discharge, it is the load that does that. the same like a battery.
I remember in University of Electronic Engineering back in 2015 a teacher of mine was involved in the graphene research program and he would swear that this is the future of electronics, i believe him , the material is very good in all aspects we just need new ways of extracting the most out of it.
I'm older. I remember when silicon was first developing. The problem with silicon transition of information was that you had to have absolute pure silicon. At first it appeared impossible, but today it is every where
On that basis I believe that we will develop perfect graphics sheets.
The same with Super Conductors. The University of Rochester has developed a Super Conductor that operates at 50⁰F.
Graphene and capacitors. Cool stuff !!!! Nobody knows for sure where the use of the new form of energy storage ends. It is just beginning !!! Cool video !!!
Excellent video and great explanation!
He mentioned that the batteries we use arent the best they are just the best to mass produce. What would the "spare no expense" battery be that could be built today?
Hydrogen fuel cells are significantly better. But come with some crazy infrastructure hurdles that have never been overcome.
Gmg (ipo gmgmf) is on a similar vein with some fun performance data on their graphene-aluminum battery prototype. I would love to see you deep dive with them. 60x charge rate as Li, cheap and recyclable, 3000+ cycle life, no degredation in cycles or cold weather
High charge rates always sound great until you think about designing a charger…
@@sirifail4499 Nah, just grab the mains and plug em in! Then you should probably stand back. :-/ :-)
I have been invested in GMGMF since may so take what I say with a grain of salt but the CEO says that their technology will bridge the gap between battery and super capacitor. They also have a proprietary method for making graphene from methane which is cheap and can be done at scale. That also means you can used these batteries as capacitors to charge cars at accelerated rates. Just trickle charge a battery at a charging station off the grid and then output the charge to the car at 3 megawatts. Then you can charge your car to full in 10 minutes. No more range anxiety. That is just the start of the potential applications of this technology. If they are able to scale up to grid level batteries they could solve the problem of excess generation from renewable sources. Depending on how their technology scales it could end up making both lithium ion batteries and super capacitors obsolete.
Honestly, this is exciting news in general. These new super caps can see applications from the huge seen in this video down to even spall applications that are more likely to benefit our every day lives in noticeable ways. Very exciting news. Can't wait to see where these take us.
The hype is important to keep getting forward, but it's also important to remember what hype is.
Good work all. Thank you Matt.
😂
This is awesome news! I cannot wait to see where this goes. I've been using ultra caps as a high current buffer before/after battery to charge quicker even in lower light conditions then keeps the battery cells at 80% for most the day. Then after battery when used for inverter, it is allowed to take higher burst loads without brown outs. At night with the moon out, I've had my battery banks charged to 90% over night.
I call bs on that friend.
I've never heard of anyone having the ability to charge with moonlight.
@@ryanduckering there was just very low mv and as anyone will tell you to not trust capacitors being drained cause static can still charge with low resistance to panels as compared to chemical change where you have to give it time to change chemistry. With that said you need high quality monocrystalline cells. So the only large resistance is the MPPT. But yah with moonlight out, the MPPT does indicate a power output to batteries.
@@ryanduckering oh yah and to be fair, I didn't state that the amount of panels were disproportionate to the storage of the system. Wasn't a practical setup when testing it out cause the amount of panels to 1 48v battery and regrettably 128 ultra caps to match without over charge. Not cost savings practical. Just a hey look what I can do and won't really make a difference. I wasted a HUGE amount of money cause the caps are not cheap and the solar was already there and the main battery banks were already full. So it was just for fun. Nothing to actually use realistically. Something Something about designing something that no one asked for and no one has any need for, all for fun.
I won't worry about specifics here, but I have access to production data for utility scale solar plants. A full moon on a cloudless night is something like 1/400th the power of a sunny day. We have seen actual solar power at night (bounced off the full moon). Not really enough to cover the inverter functions in practice though.
@@GuyIncognito764 there were no mention of inverter used
Graphene's potential as a room temperature superconductor is what holds great promise!
thanks Matt, great presentation....
Thanks for this interesting video. I really have to look into this a bit more.
I have always preferred capacitors over batteries due to their longevity and quick charge / discharge capabilities. It's nice to see some dramatic improvements coming along.
When i heard about Graphene in 2012 for the first time. I knew it would be 20 years before something this amazing came to market. Don't need any "enthusiasts" making unregulated light sabers now...
great video. thanks!
Yet another great show. This is so fascinating lol where will it be in ten years
Having extreme charge cycle lifespan, short-charge-time, and low-energy-bleed is the goal for storage. I hope that the manufacturers can eventually produce an energy storage solution that is more cost effective to use than lithium-ion.
Good thing carbon is easier to source than lithium
And more long term!
Carbon batteries are said to be 49% of lithium, which would mean they would be equal if 1 or 2% bigger.
Curved graphene. That's basically a carbon nanotube, so it likely requires a certain orientation of the atoms to get the extreme conductivity, because carbon nanotubes certainly do.
Very interesting, should be great to see some innovative solutions coming soon
Great vid Matt!
Thanks!
Cool tech. Glad to see headway in graphene tech, but I'm really just waiting for something that can completely replace lithium ion batteries with a higher lifespan, higher energy density and faster recharge times.
There's always something new. The problem is that it's always like 1-2% better, with 5-10% more volatility and 200-300% more expensive. The problem with batteries is that they're about as good now as they're ever likely to get.
So we can't focus on making batteries more powerful as much as we should focus on making tech more efficient.
Any time you see a new battery tech that promises to revolutionise the world and promises improvements of 200%+ performance. It's a scam.
@@Unethical.Dodgson I agree that most battery "breakthroughs" are scams, or exaggerated claims based on something that works in a lab but hasn't been scaled industrially yet.
I think it's not quite fair to say that lithium-ion batteries, or batteries in general, can't get better though. Those few % per year have been adding up slowly but surely. There are enough incremental (not revolutionary) technologies in R&D right now that I'd feel safe betting that slow march will continue at least for another decade.
A difference between batteries and supercapacitors is the energy storage efficiency. Supercaps are almost lossless, compared with 80-95% for Lion. That 5% may be significant…
gravity batteries are ~85% efficient, just build a big ass tower in your backyard!
My limited understanding is that adding capacitors to a battery system greatly increases its' efficiency. That might be the best application for something that can't be manufactured in large quantities yet.
@@gg-gn3re hello wonderful person o/
over what time period are these percentages spanning? 5% per day? per year? :)
How does the rate of phantom drain for a supercapacitor compare to a Li-ion battery?
Hi Matt, good to see graphene adding efficiency to ultra capacitor tech coming to the market
Thanks for sharing great info
Watching big heavy DC cables jump during a discharge event on Fully Charged was a very memorable display of just how much energy these capacitors can store.
So graphene is more conductive than silver?
Hadn't heard that before.
Matt, as always… thanks for the education!
Amazing channel! Thank you :)
I remember years ago when there was talk of having cylinder type batteries with graphite used instead the size of a regular double A battery but being able to store like x5 or x10 the amount of power a regular battery can. The only problem they were saying back then was a way to mass produce the graphite. This reminded me of that, and how I am still waiting on those great batteries that can store way more power. The current batteries we have these days still stink and until we get to better energy storage for long term we will be reliant on stuff like fossil fuels which stinks.
"The current batteries we have these days still stink"
Nah, most of them don't smell like anything. And if you compare a AA Li Ion today with a NiCad from say, fifty years ago, you will find they have gained quite a bit more than 4X, already, especially if you are talking energy storage/weight, which is every bit, or more important for many types of vehicles than energy density per volume. Now fossil fuels, when burned, do stink.
@@MrJdsenior Fossil Fuels rule fool
I don't know if electric aircraft may be possible one day -- everyone always says that batteries don't have the energy density fuel has, and meanwhile fuel cells don't have the power output that combustion has. But if they do happen, perhaps graphene supercapacitors could provide a few minutes worth of additional power for takeoff and/or climbing when necessary. Then fuel cells could provide just the power required for cruising.
So you carry around heavy supercapacitors all the time that have low energy density? Flight seems like the last place to use this technology.
@Number1 - note that I specifically said "provide a *_few minutes worth_* of additional power for takeoff and/or climbing when necessary" - What I meant by that is you'd only have enough supercapacitors onboard to boost your power for a few minutes. This is because supercapacitors can provide lots of power quickly., compared to other types of devices like batteries and fuel cells. I did not say that supercapacitors should make up your entire power supply.
@@manofsan I fully understood exactly what you said. Not sure why you assume I didn't read it. I just don't see any benefit. Using it for any of the energy used in flight is going to make the vehicle heavier than it would otherwise be if you used batteries for that part of the flight.
Thanks Matt, good work
I remember when the computer magazine I loved at the time (rest in peace MaximumPC and CPU, I know that at least I still miss reading them), MaximumPC wrote an article about this, I forget which specific issue it was, but I do recall it was sometime maybe closer to 2008-2014 somewhereabout. its nice to see that this is very likely going to live up to the potential that it was previously predicted to have the ability to. long wait, but I for one feel like its going to live up to the predicted potential and then some. thank you for this video!
Has he responded to the Solid Hydrogen video critiques yet?
Naw
I've replied in that videos comments and added something to the description. An updated video is in the works.
@@UndecidedMF that's is excellent to hear.
I'm sure we all know respect is extremely difficult to build and so incredibly easy to lose.
But it can be rebuilt. And I've always loved a redemption arc.
If you're really a good guy and you're trying to do honest work. Maybe reach out to thunderf00t.
He's the kind of person that would respect that if you're truly trying to grow.
I know I would be hurt by the impression that was left of me if I was in this position. I would hate that people thought i wasn't trying my best to do good work. And I would do anything to correct it.
While I don't agree with everything in his video, he does raise some excellent points (hence, my going back to square one on that video). It's a challenge boiling a science topic down to 10 minutes. Kurzgesagt just published a video on this challenge (great watch): czcams.com/video/XFqn3uy238E/video.html
I would kind of expect utility level super capacitors to already be in use by power companies, specifically to handle demand spikes. It just makes too much sense not to.
And best of all, they don't degrade like chemical-reaction batteries. ;)
Great video Matt! First time viewer here, new subscriber! Peace!
Thanks for your knowledge sharing
I'd love to see graphene used to make vastly better "wires" for power grids to help improve and expand power grids making trading electricity easier and cheaper over larger and larger areas.
Graphene's conductivity is unmatched only on micro scale; the bulk material is still just graphite. For long range transmission, we'll have to wait until practical high temperature superconductors become a reality (they're tantalizingly close).
Generally when you want better conductance for a wire: you just go wider. It's only when that's impractical that you consider upgrading the material.
Whilst graphene beats equally thin copper, graphite isn't flexible enough to make a good wire. And it needs to be graphite because it needs to be thick.
Side note on graphite's conductance: it matters how you measure it. It's much better going parallel to the layers of graphene than going perpendicular to the layers. That's true for both its electrical and thermal conductance. Some of the stuff i found while researching graphite wires after reading this comment seemed to not understand that nuance
A related option, though, are carbon nanotubes. I haven't researched them thoroughly but it does seem some people are looking into using them for wires. And i don't see any reason they couldn't beat copper. But i think we're a long way away from them being used for power lines
Is there any chance that graphene supercapacitors could ever match the energy density of lithium batteries?
Yes, its main issue is that it's barely been 20 years since discovery. I'd compare it to silicon, the production methods of which are still being significantly improved over a hundred years after they first started using it for technology.
@@XGD5layer I'm assuming you mean circuit production, unless you are really talking about the grown crystal, which has progressed some, but not that much.
Great video! It gives me the hope to support the batteries to buffer high and short inputs. It will prolonge the life of the lithiumcells.
Ever since I watched the first Graphene Video I'm such a big fan of this material
Called it! The Superbattery (almost certainly) already exists and is known as a hybrid ion capacitor or lithium ion capacitor. Nice to see the tech emerging in the market soon. 20 years in the making since work of Conway and Amatucci.
Thanks for sharing!
@@liam3284 I wasn’t aware DLC builds up on LTO, or if it does, that it’s unique to LTO or that it’s what gives LTO-based LICs good rate/power capabilities. Feel free to source! In any case, LICs have developed since the early LTO//AC days. I think graphite is now predominant battery-type electrode. How things change! Carbon is the future
Air conditioners have been using regular capacitors to kick start their compressors for years. This new technology to extend this boosting power over several minutes or longer is a game changer.
That capacitor doesn't store the energy needed for starting. The capacitor only stores some energy for 1/4th of the cycle of the mains to provide a phase shifted current to one of the coils in the motor. More than 1/2 of the power making the motor turn goes into the coil without the phase shift.
I love your content. It’s very informative. It’s very clear energy storage is a problem we need to solve. You’ve released a lot of these potential energy storage break throughs recently but none of it it consumer commercially viable yet. I think it would be amazing if you would partner with the companies engineering the technology you review and present it to early adopters. Speculation is fun but it’s a tease.
+1 sub with notification bell. This is the 3rd or 4th video that I watch of you. I haven't stopped watching mid way on any of them. So, good job, keep it up, etc. 👍
Awesome! Thank you!
This technology would be great for air conditioning in an electric car, where a big surge of power is needed to start the compressor.
Try to think a little bigger.
When graphene was announced, I was in the semiconductor design business working as an IC layout designer. The earliest hype about graphene was that it would serve as capacitors. Offhand, I speculated that semiconductors would start using graphene capacitors to reduce space. That never happened.
Like fussion, only another thirty years away.
Not never. It's hasn't happened yet.
@@differentname8051 that's got some monumental hurdles to jump before it's at all doable beyond seconds or minutes.
As always, great outlook, Matt! As far as other applications... Can you do a video explaining for your viewers, why on earth there's graphene dioxide in these waxines?
One great application for this would be for electric transport (busses, trams) that don't require the city to install the ugly (and expensive to maintain) overhead wiring. Just gulp down a 20-second charge at certain selected stops, use regenerative braking, and you can do it all without wires! It would be a great solution for Washington DC, which explicitly forbids overhead wiring in the downtown area, but dreams of having some tram lines there. Alternately, they could wire up only very short runs of overhead wire (just a block, here and there), have the bus/tram unfold its pantograph, and gulp down enough electricity to charge up the capacitors on those short runs. You have a lot of flexibility when your charge time is just 20 seconds!
really cool, i wonder if in the future we can use ultra beefy super caps to store power from lightning strikes, would be pretty epic
Like imagine a semi truck with a load of super caps that drive around looking for lightning storms based of weather data, then when they're struck they drive to a grid connection point and unload all the power or something :)
I can imagine an energy storage solution that combines supercaps, LFP batteries, LNG storage & fuel cells, and gaseous-CO2-derived biochar. Just like gears on a car, you use different ones at different times, and it's more practical to have all 4 than to limit yourself to just one and oversize the system to handle all the edge cases.
Waste to energy systems like the GSI-UCS utilize these technologies to create renewable systems for the future. We are currently testing supercap batteries with novel turbine tech to generate constant power and increase micro densities across entire industrial processes, creating parasitic load reduction at the systems themselves.
@@rogerstarkey5390 Are you talking cost-efficiency or energy-efficiency? There are at least 2 costs worth considering: *operating cost per kWh-cycle* (supercaps & batteries win because they waste very little energy and get used thousands of times), and *upfront cost per kWh* (hydrogen storage currently costs only 1/4 as much per kwh as batteries, LNG cheaper still, and biochar storage is practically free). If you knew you needed exactly 100 kWh/day every day, you'd use batteries, but real-world conditions are variable on both the supply & demand side. Planning for 1 week of clouds once every 10 years would cost a fortune with batteries, but be far cheaper with LNG & biochar.
Well done friend!
We need this storage ideas and technology good video
Check out versarien in the UK. They may actually be supplying Skeleton… In addition to Supercaps through their subsidiary in Spain, Gnanomat, VRS is involved in graphene for construction (graphene in concrete and cement and their new proprietary product, Cementene), automotive and aerospace, and most recently fabrics through Superdry, Coates and MAS. They are going to be HUGE.
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Yep, Versarien is where it’s all about to kick off big time 👍🏻
Versarien are definitely in the forefront of the graphene story. Watching with great interest!
I'm an avid follower of Versarien who are currently the only graphene producer verified by The Graphene Council. They are making graphene at commercial scale now and are working with many big companies. Graphene dramatically enhances how other materials perform and can make materials last longer. Versarien is producing graphene enhanced cement which provides significant reductions in CO(2) by reducing the amount of cement needed in ready mix whilst still maintaining strength, reducing curing and drying times, reducing or eliminating the need for steel and extending asset life by eliminating cracking making it more than viable from an economic viewpoint.
Check out Versarien’s latest investor presentation. czcams.com/video/s5cwCH4TuGo/video.html. So much more to this company than energy storage!
I'd love to see some use case specifics. Like...
How long can a smart phone run on a super cap of the same size as a lithium Ion battery?
How do they compare to a AA rechargeable? Numbers, please!
This is amazing thank you for the vid liked subbed
Hi Matt. Great video to watch. Have you ever consider to make a video on Organic solar cell industrialization?
I've long felt that capacitor-enhanced regen braking could help. But since braking is a minor proportion of travel, is 30% enough to warrant the complications & cost of integrating capacitors into EVs? Maybe more in heavier lift modes, like transport & flight, where overcoming altitude gravity differentials can be huge?
I'm with you and had a similar idea. How about Incorporating super/ultra capacitor-enhanced regen braking along with almost instant charging capability. Pull up to a charger, plug in, the super/ultra capacitors are charged, you drive off and the stored energy in the capacitors is used to charge the battery over the next 5-20? minutes. The same capacitors are used for regen.
@@user-vp1sc7tt4m if you have enough energy in the capacitors, why using the batteries at all? no, that is not how it works. you would need an ultracapacitor with the size of a truck to have enough stored energy to charge the battery. the difference in energy density is a factor 10 or more.
and modern li-ion batteries can already handle a huge power
Regenerative braking is best used for vehicles that are continually stoppping and starting like buses in traffic, garbage trucks, trams and trains where the stations are close together. In most of these applications, the reduction in wear and tear of the physical braking system is also a point in its favour.
I'm very excited for what new technologies graphene can bring to life, and yes, storing energy is a big one, cause it could help make commercially viable VTOLs and possibly de-congest city traffic and speed up travel. My only issue with the technology would be to make sure that graphene particles do not become airborne to be inhaled and possibly cause lung inflammation and disease.
Love this channel
Definitely Earned it!)) Matt, so calm & Zen-like 🙏
Hybrid batteries sound like the way to go with this kind of tech, like he said.
Reminds me of hybrid hard drives or tiered storage in a computer server. Low capacity SSDs acting as a buffer for high capacity traditional storage
Exactly! Great analogy! Couldn’t have said it better my self.
ok, the energy density is lower than batteries, but what about the cost for capacity.
grid-scale energy storage doesn't need to be compact. solar farms for example already cover a lot of land and have ample volume under the panels where you can put your energy storage solution.
To clarify
There are two different things: cost per capacity (how much energy can you store per buck) and cost per power (how fast can you store or release that energy per buck)
In general batteries win on cost per energy capacity wheras capacitors win on cost per power handling.
Nice video clip, keep it up, thank you for sharing it :)
Thank you very interesting.