How to acheive perfect alignment and repeatability at the CNC router (with bench dogs)
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- čas přidán 15. 10. 2020
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In the last video, I made some precise bench dogs for use at the CNC router for workpiece positioning. In this video, I show how I made the matching hole grid in the CNC table and how I use the system. It has many benefits.
- No need for dialing in x = 0 and Y = 0 (once configured)
- Repeatable placement of parts
- easy alignment when making two-sided operations
Watch the last video here: • I made Precision Bench...
Link to the lathe die holder: www.thingiverse.com/thing:462...
Link to Jay Bates' video: • Avid CNC Ep5: Machine ...
Links to the router bits. If you buy some of them through these links, you will support me without paying more.
Spiral Upcut bits: www.fraisertools.com/de/spira...
Spiral Downcut bits: www.fraisertools.com/de/alpha...
Compression bits: www.fraisertools.com/de/delta...
Carbide inserts surfacing bits: www.fraisertools.com/de/boss-...
Enjoy the video! - Jak na to + styl
There's never a Marius video I don't learn 4 or 5 things from. Well done!
I really enjoy your bloopers at the end. It shows you are human. Always a nice trait. Thank you
And that he tries hard to get a clean take instead of chopping it up with jumpcuts, which are all too common on YT.
Yes. He produces such a fine video. It really looks perfect. Great job on your content and quality.
About flipping: the flip operation accuracy depends on the perfect squareness of the stock to be machined. Never 100% thrust that.
Precise flipping is usually made by using fiducial pins along the symmetry axis of the part.
Drilling a hole in the center of the dogs would allow air through the dogs and thus prevent the air suction that is making it hard to remove the dogs from their holes, just a thought. 😊
But then you lose the plopp sound which is the best part of it.
soo happy you pointed out the threaded insert slot is NOT FOR A SCREWDRIVER. the amount of discussion I had about this.. glad I found a insert nut buddy who knows his stuff 😀
Thanks. I don't understand how one could think it's for a screwdriver. It seems so obvious
@@MariusHornberger well.. its a slot.. and people assume too much.. great videos as always! stay safe!
You'd need a pretty big screwdriver, and it's not a tapered slot. Makes me think of the old AvE "200 pound gorilla in the shop"
@@ThePaulus2010 How do you explain that threaded inserts with hex drive don't have the slot?
@@juhokestila7367 totally different kind of thing those inserts have cutters on the side.. there are many more kinds of threaded insert each has its own way of working.. but again.. this is not for a screwdriver..
Also enjoying the fact that Marius curses in English instead of German 🤣
Seems to be a european thing. I have Danish friends who curse in English too using the most foul of language to make even a navvy blush, inversely to call someone in Danish Den gamle Hex, you old witch is as heneous.. loveit... keep it up young man....
I can't believe I hadn't noticed that. But with all the many people from many countries that I have worked with, he just uses it correctly. My favorite uses of cursing are from Asians and Indians. They get very creative with their wording and you never know what you will get.
Marius: I am always impressed by your knowledge and ingenuity.
Great video with very clear explanations. I've been trying to figure out how to do more accurate two sided machining and this gives me some ideas. Thanks for making this!
I always love your outtakes!
Impressive demo of accuracy with the dog holes milled from both sides!
Thank you Marius. I really enjoy your presentations. Thorough. Again, thank you.
Sehr gut Marius! Extrem durchdacht und sehr präzise. Works like charm.... :)
You can make a hole in the middle of this dogs to let air flow when you put out dogs from tight holes :)
Exactly this. Will also make the holes last longer since there isn't as much twisting and such to pull out.
Awesome work!
I always look forward to your videos.
Wie immer lässt du mich zutiefst beeindruckt meinen Hut vor deiner Leistung ziehen.
Super Idee und klasse umgesetzt
Denke ich werd sowas in der art versuchen an meiner Primo umzusetzen
Danke für die Inspiration und bleib wie du bist
MfG Tobi
The outtakes are hilarious! It shows exactly how drilling holes in wood is not quite an exact science!
When you have to put a threaded insert in a deep hole, you can use a piece of pipe between insert and nut.
Good idea!
Or perhaps a nut with faces and threads taken off in the lathe.
If you buy inserts with "knife threads" they will drive directly ionto the MDF eliminating the need to tap the hole. Plus the knife threads are wider than traditional threads to grip the MDF or other soft wood better. Not so with hard woods...
You are a smart guy. I enjoyed this video. Thank you.
Smart and efficent as usual 👍🏻👍🏻
Gotta love the outtakes.....they always entertain me.....keep up the great work really....I enjoy the way you put your ideas to work for your needs.👍
You are so good at making your hobbies fast and efficient that eventually you won't have a hobby anymore.. The robot you built will design and built it for you! :P
That's what I think about JSK-Kobou, all their videos are about tool jigs and workflow upgrades! What are you going to make after you have your dream shop? Eh, that's for future-you to figure out.
The fact that you can flip the piece and perfectly drill all the way through makes me want to see you try and make a 2-sided PCB with that CNC...
That would be great! I think you'd need to make a jig to hold the PCB in as well maybe? As they are usually around 1.6mm thick.
This is genius!
Marius, I used very similar techniques on an Excellon circuit board driller/router 40 years aga.
good work again
0:47 *plopp* that is the sound of a nice fit.
One of the best things for CNC is importing your CAD model into a CAD model of your clamping bed with your holes, inserted dogs and the like. It is a great way to see if there is a crash when you simulate from there. Also helps to see how you will clamp it up easier in my opinion.
Yeah, I know. That's exactly what I did (but didn't show in the video. In Fusion 360 I have a sketch on the 3D machine table that represents the dogs for aligning pieces. Very conveniant
I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.
Presumably you can tighten the fit of the holes by applying PVA once the holes have loosened too much.
Once again you have done an amazing job with an amazingly great idea
and once again I feel like a slug by comparison... please don't step on me
Real nice!
I wonder if a dog with a hole through the center, 1/4" or 6mm, slit in the bottom centered going up, then cut an angle on each side in the dogs bottom from the outside to the center to make a wedge fit. 3D print a wedge with a nut insert in the bottom, run a bolt through the center and when the dog is inserted in the hole to the bottom, tighten the bolt with the hold down in place to tighten the wedge and it will hold the dog in place. Adjustment spacers could be used for different wood thicknesses. Just an idea I had while watching. Terrific job on the waste board!
I was thinking if you can incorporate an optional hold down into the dog you could have a single dog/clamp as well.
That's a really neat idea!
Brillant.
Hey Marius, I really enjoy your Videos, keep up the good work.
I watched your videos on the Hammer tablesaws before i decided to get one, it ties in well with the A3-31 and N4400 i already had.
Are you aware if or are able to ask Felder if they are planning on making a larger Hammer CNC, say with a 1200mm x 600mm working area.
This current model is a little small for my needs, but tempted to wait if there is something in the works.
They told me smaller Version is planned but not a bigger one...unfortunately
6:22 -> depending on your controller adding G64 and a P value of 0.25 or even a bit higher could help. also adjusting the smoothing in CAM might help but I haven´t used vcarve/espire for quite some time and cannot remember if that´s an option. in fusion it would be.
Thanks for the tip! Today I tried G64 with a few different P values (and some other values that the controll software offers like LAF etc) and path smoothing in Fusion360. The machine only moved in air, but there were no more shaking moves
Have you considered the inserts with an hex drive on top? They come in a lot of different lengths and are suited for driving them into wood even better if you ask me, since their outer thread are more coarse (like you would find on a would screw). Besides that, excellent work as always!
I had bad experiece when driving them into birch plywood.
@@MariusHornberger Hmm i see...Only tried them in MDF and hard woods with great results so far. Anyway great stuff, keep it up!
First to view and comment. Your improvements are great time saving improvement to the original equipment. I'm surprised it isn't offered by the manufacture. Thanks for sharing your work.
You could engrave your work offsets in the bed for easy recall
@joe Malovich i though he could writie them down on the board, but maybe these would be eaten away when working
being MDF it will swell and tretract with humidity and heat? might need sealing.
nice work though.
Hi Marius
What is the feed and speed you run your program on?
Hey Marius, Nice job, greatly appreciate your effort in putting these vids out. Do you an an affiliate link for the CNC, I will betting one in Dec / Jan time frame (i have to make space for it. And I’m really leaning towards this model, looks I don’t need anything larger. Thanks and keep up the show!
Unfortunately not. I only have links for the router bits
Very impressive that you were able to cut that hole in two passes. Did you try to estimate what the precision is? Can you feel the interface with your fingers?
Yes, I can feel the interface. I would guess it's about 0.02-0.04mm
@@MariusHornberger i wonder, wouldn't that just be getting close to the tollerance that just comes with the machine? Or in other words, do you know the actual accuracy for the machine speccified by Felder? And how does thia compare? Awsome video by the way!
The specified tolerance is +-0,1mm, but it's actually way better. More like +-0,02
Some professional CNC machine have air driven pop up pins. I'm sure you could make something similar. Also the best calibration test I've done on my machine is to cut a square frame positioned diagonally from the x and y axes, afterward measure between the diagonal corners with the callipers and comparing the results. I found twisting a square 45 degrees meant the kinematics of the cut were completely different and both x and y axes were being used at the same time for all faces. Be interesting to see your results for that method if you had time.
I did a similar test off camera. I drilled 4 holes in a square pattern and meassured the diagonals.
toller Kanal
Good!
Did you consider machining down a coupling nut for the locknut used for putting in the inserts?
No, that would have been great
Nice
Analyze G64 and G61 to avoid jittery moves. It's a problem with MACH, it tends to switch modes if you stop drill procedures prematurely.
Thanks for the hint. Although I'm not using MACH, but Eding CNC, it's worth taking a look, thanks
Do you still use the clamps which made use of dogholes?
Enthralling video learnt heaps. How do you determine the exact “ off set” in the corner? At 4.42 time from vectric or UCCNC have looked at Jays video to much info. Is there a link please.?
Because my machine X0 Y0 is also the X0 Y0 in Vectric. Then I can use the messuring tool to get the distance from X0 Y0 to the work piece corner. The workpiece in software is at the same position as the workpiece on the machine
Aufs Hundertstel genau in MDF? Ob die Löcher so bleiben bei geringer Änderung von Luftfeuchte und oder Temperatur?
Klar wird's da Toleranzen geben. Aber ich hätte keine Idee für eine bessere und genau so praktische Alternative
Gutes Video :) Würde mir deutsche Videos wünschen aber deine Englischen Videos zu schauen ist auch sehr schön :)
Beim Einschrauben der Gewindemuffe hätte dir eine Verbindungsmutter helfen können, oder? Mein Schraubenhandel ist aber auch direkt um die Ecke.
Put a hole in the centre of you dog or a groove down the shaft, it'll let the air through and the won't get stuck in the holes due to the pressure caused py the vacuum created when trying to pull them out 😉
Shortening threaded inserts is much more tricky with a bench grinder. Would that I had a lathe.
I thought that was where he was headed but yeah, seems like it'd be a lot trickier. Maybe with the same setup he showed for how threaded inserts are normally installed (8:45), but with bigger nuts and bolts? That would keep the insert parallel to the grinder table, and thus shorten it while keeping it flat. But then you need a whole separate setup for deburring the threads.
Does the hole size changes if the humidity in the room changes?
Probably yes, but no significant amount
i have the sezm hammer cnc machine .
отлично)
Hi friend 👍
👌
Can you purchase any of this?
Nice video. But wouldn't it be more easy just to use a xyz probe to aline the CNC?
Yes and no. You have to use the probe for every workpiece and it's quite expensive. But it of course gives you an acurate position
@@MariusHornberger but you are already using the z axis probe every time. And isn't it a rather easy diy project on the CNC?.. Btw, I am a total noob in the world of CNC, just made my first one.
MFRT-1 😉
Ich weis es leider nicht besser, aber hätte es den nicht gereicht in jede Ecke einen Bench-Dog-Anschlag zu setzen um die Nullung von dort aus zu beginnen?
An sich ja, aber wenn die Opfer Platte an der Stelle des Nullpunkts verschlissen ist (zu oft reingefräst), dann hab ich noch andere nullpunkte zur Auswahl
@@MariusHornberger Clever :-) Gute Nacht und danke für dein Video!
Cooles Video, wie Deine Anderen auch...aber meine 2 Fragen...warum bringst Du Deine Videos nicht auf deutsch? Und warum machst Du die Pins auf tausendmal genau? Holz und Metall haben unterschiedliche Ausdehnungskoeffizienten...😅
XY manual alignment = 30 seconds with electronic probe - 100% accuracy. This job looks like 4+hours , so you need some 500 projects to compensate. And the base plate is unmovable which sucks if you need thicker stock or if it gets damaged by water. I would trust my endstops and create a few digital working areas based on those, but good effort I guess. Just not the most practical
Hi, why you diddnt use helicoil ???
Hmm, good question. I only had threaded inserts in mind
@@MariusHornberger I use cnc for my productions. Helicoil has saved my life a lot of times. Also i use them as dogs to align the cutting jigs/tables that i put according to production. Check my work out. Olivewoodpens.gr !
It seems that your chamfering bit was slipping in the lathe chuck...
So, I guess you are using the limit/homing switches of the machine. The dog-hole zero positions are then referenced to the machine zero, defined by the homing switches.
Because you don't have servo motors, the machine actually won't know where it is when you turn it on and needs the homing switches
Is that right?
yes, without referencing the machine also won't allow to do anything
Nobody's gonna make the obvious joke about tight holes loosening up with frequent use? What, you think you're better than me?
Always nice to see a person just as immature as yourself
Tolle Idee für Fräsen die keine Nuten Platte haben
Gruß MaBu
Your title:
*Achieve
Remember: 'i' before 'e' except that weird time when your foreign neighbor Keith received eight counterfeit beige sleighs from feisty caffeinated weightlifters.
@@zodak9999b That's a great way of remembering a load of the exceptions to the rule!
I'm curious why you use Fusion 360 for rendering and another software/CAD program for design and layout. I use Fusion 360 for both for my CNC table and wonder if I might be missing out on something better!
Thank you and great video.
I'm a lot better and faster in designing with SOLIDWORKS, but have no CAM plugin for it
Hello, engineer here. There is no such thing as 'perfect alignment' - everything has tolerances. A large part of mechanical engineering is managing tolerances. For example, have you seen how much MDF moves with moisture content?
I know that, but for everyone to understand it's easier to explain it the way I did instead of trying to explain that there are tolerances everywhere. Everything is now within machine tolerances which is the best I can achieve
1:15 lmao
How can I learn to curse in German, if Marius always uses English?
I think some one is using your video on a scissor lift as a scam. they stole your video and is on facebook. sorry if i am mistaken, i just hate seeing you get your ideas stolen, but if you are promoting it, my apologies.
You're rigth that's a scam. Please report the post and their page on facebook as scam
I think that your channel would benefit if you'd change "shit" in to "Scheiße"