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Can I beat a ROBOT at Astrophotography?
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2024
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The Vaonis Vespera is available here: bit.ly/3ipKEa8 Nico's Spare Parts Kit is here: kit.co/nebulap...
Table of Contents:
0:00 Intro/Disclosures
2:09 The Vespera Experience
4:28 The Spare Parts Kit Experience
6:08 Vespera add-ons (filters, hygrometer)
7:05 PPA
8:48 Pros and Cons
13:57 Final Results
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Great review Nico. I’m an experienced planetary imager using the Celestron 14” Edge HD. I have always wanted to dabble with DSO imaging when we go camping so I bought a Vespera last week. Absolutely superb rig. So easy with stunning results. Super easy set up. Wi-Fi has very long range. I sit at least 50 feet from the rig behind our basement glass door with our puppy watching the image form on my iPad. I took my first solar image with Vespera in 50 years of astronomy. Very cool. Results without the hassle. Thanks for your review
On the strength of this review I ordered a Vespera on Monday night and it arrived Wednesday. It is *incredibly* easy to use! I have lots of other astrophoto gear but the old adage of "the best scope is the one you actually use" definitely applies here.
Definitely! Enjoy it Ray. Clear skies, Nico
@@NebulaPhotos it has been out every night since I received it. I’ve captured more data in the last three nights than I’d managed in the previous 3 years.
@rayBellis @NebulaPhotos have you been able to test under bright city light pollution conditions?
Was reviewing the Vespera since I really don’t have to much time for setting up a rig. Just wanted something I can carry and be up and running in 5 minutes. Your review was the final push I needed to buy. Just ordered it today. Thanks for your review was clear and to the point. Love your channel.
I got mine last month and i love the setup time! Especially in Upstate NY in January lol.
That’s awesome! Just got shipping info received today and will arrive on Thursday. Do you have a light pollution filter?
@@gemm007 I did not buy it. I live out in the middle of nowhere in a Bortle 4 so not much light pollution. I may pick it up later and see what it can do for me.
If you get it , you are going to love it. The pictures are still amazing and thats under lots of city lights
I have 3 grandkids aged 8, 12 and 17 and try to expose them to as many different experiences as possible.
We recently started looking at the sky and taking pics with a fairly limited superzoom camera that we have.
Grandpaw here needs to give them enough info as possible to answer their questions while we are on the roof.
Your's is by far the best CZcams channel I have come across - you have a knack for explaining the photography and are revealing some great stuff to look at.
When it comes to liking and subscribing I am generally a bit of a Scrooge.
Thanks for taking the time.
Liked and subscribed.
Hi, thanks for your review ! 👌 I searched for this manufacturer, Vaonis, and I had the surprise of finding them in a location barely 20 km from where I live in south France. This is anecdotal for you all but not the tag price for the Vespera, lowered from 2500 to 2000 euros. This is nice 20% reduction, but I hope it's active for all customers worldwide and not only in Europe 🇪🇺. Take care !
Mosaic / CovalENS mode on Vespera seems to eliminate the walking noise for me, and i also love that you can customise the area of capturing using the targeting interface that shows you surrounding DSO's so you can rotate and capture what you want in mosaic mode as well as adjust the size of the Mosaic up to 8mpx
For the Asiair, put your phone in airplane mode and then turn on wifi. This eliminates most connectivity issues. One less mentioned discovery that I painfully discovered is that if the Asiair is too close to anything with a stepper motor (ie; focus motor, filter wheel) it often interferes with the wifi signal. That was fun figuring out.
I resolve the issue just by selecting the "keep the wifi connection" on my Android.
this one caught a subscribe. thanks for the content! I've been sifting through lots of astronomy channels and have found yours to be the best for my style of learning and general attention grabbing!
Thanks, glad to have you as a subscriber. I'm always open to questions and suggestions. Cheers, Nico
It’s the Linux vs Mac debate for telescopes
Excellent video, it really shows clearly what the Vespera is for ... amateur astronomers like me that have very little time to spend on this wonderful hobby.
I am really happy with the Vespera, I didnt do any visual observations since I had it.
I had the chance to do a single picture with the covalens mode, its was the North America Nebula and I really liked the result.
Since then I got x Weeks of clouds ;) (typical weather god shenanigans)
Thanks a lot for the video.
I’ve owned the Vespera for a month now, I know nothing on astrophotography since I’m a beginner. The automation has really helped the experience and made things easier so I don’t have to align or focus it myself or where to track the object. My favorite objects so far to capture have been the moon, Andromeda Galaxy & the dumbbell nebula.
Nico- I’m a retired professional photographer who was a PPA member. I also had the same idea as you! I used my older iOptron CEM25 and bought a Redcat51. Combined with an ASIAIR plus it works really great. I use it at public star parties I support.
Exactly the video I was looking for!! Can't wait to watch!
I enjoyed this review, thank you! The Vespera was on sale for $1499 so I went ahead and bought it. I look forward to testing it out and using it for the upcoming solar eclipses with the solar filter.
Talk about timely. I just this week started looking into options to help with our clubs outreach programs. So looking at various options.
It strikes as being similar to the Apple Mac vs PC Windows/Linux user. Your 'bitza' can be updated, improved etc the same way that an enthusiast PC user will, but the Vespera is for the people that buy Apple Macs. I guess you said that anyway.
Awesome video, the all in one is mighty impressive considering the simplicity
From Vespera to Ve-spare. Great job Nico 👍
Excellent video as always Nico. I totally agree with your rankings for these systems especially how you compared them as if you were a beginner. I have my Frankenstein system and have been using it for a while with the ASIAIR so I know it well, but for someone not knowing how the everything works it is no contest - Vespera wins! I guess I would add if you are beginner, well off ($$), and want take pretty pictures of the night sky right away - get the Vespara. Also, I can see an experienced AP who only has a big mount and telescope and observatory wanting to do some portable wide field getting one of these as well. Interesting and a plus that Vespara uses the same sensor as your astrocam. The only downside I see with the Vespara is the field rotation which would become an issue if you want to do 3 hours or longer projects which is pretty much all I do. Cheers
I haven’t played with it yet, but the Vespara also has a scheduler mode, where you can have it run overnight hitting different targets at different times of the night, and I believe shut itself off when done.
I have the Vespara and really like it, got it at a pre-order price so the $$ was much better. I have had it every clear night, and my first mosaic with it of andromeda came out nice.
Thanks Nico! Professional, interesting and thought provoking content as ever :)
Very well done. I’m waiting on the Vespera Pro release.
I love this video - and I love this kit you put together! I'm giving serious consideration to buying all the components, and making it my main imaging set-up :)
Just wanted to add. When you upload as premier the video gets buried in my sub feed before it's viewable so it's pretty much put of sight out of mind.
There are definite trade-offs, but overall the premieres seem to be helping my videos more than hurting them, and I enjoy chatting with people live.
This happens to me too, but when the premier time hits, the video is placed back at the top of the sub list and remains in order based on that time rather than the original upload date. I figured that was normal and not an issue.
Superb review, Nico. Hope you're able to test the Mosaic mode before sending it back. Makes a pretty good deal for those that want automation without all the flexibility and hassle of making and learning their own setup.
This one turned out surprising I've gotta say! - I went into this expecting the spare parts rig to take the W, but I actually liked the Vespera image better overall!
Seems like that derotation during stacking is acting like a pseudo-dither making the noise that little bit more pleasing to my eye (at least through CZcams) - Seemed like the Vespera has slightly better optics than the Askar too, just judging by star shape.
Super interesting, thanks for putting this together!
Vespera is currently on sale at retailers for $1999 USD until 25th of December 2022
Thanks for the heads-up, might have to get it
@@DumbAsh00 £1759 (inc. 20% VAT) from First Light Optics in the UK.
The lack of options to Vespera and similar equipment really makes them difficult for me to consider seriously.
@@mycarolinaskies I'm incredibly happy with mine. IMHO the only significant restriction is the fixed focal length.
Too much for this focal legh and diameter for me i will buy an evscope 2
Good balanced review. Vespera's mosaic mode (currently in Beta) effectively provides dual focal length images, would be interesting to hear your views in a follow-up video.
Nice comparison. I do see where some people would prefer the one button simplicity. Lets be honest.. to run a traditional rig you need to be part engineer :)
Lack of dithering is a huge issue.. maybe they can add that with a fw update since it would be all handled in software.
I'm not crazy about having a filter on the front... being exposed to the elements.
Field rotation as you pointed out is also a problem for long exposures. Defiantly a casual device.
CS!
The Mosaic mode called CovalENS has dithering support. Vespera defaults to 10sec images due to lack of derotator. The more expensive Vaonis Stellina has a derotator in it. However with the Mosaic mode, it pretty much eliminates the issue as it builds up consistent parts of the sky based on a manual targeting mode where you specify the area to be imaged and it discards parts of the images outside of the target area as it builds up the mosaic image, up to 8mpx resolution
i think someone may have done a video like this before😂
Oh, really, who? 😂
@@NebulaPhotos i cant remember their name but they were unusually attractive...
I was looking for this comment. His videos are alot more entertaining to watch though.
As others have said, the wifi on the Asiair is awful. I've had issues with an iOS where I have to stay within 15ft of it. It gets worse and better with time depending how much the Asiair has rotated if its mounted on the EQ. The only way to improve it, is to mount it to the tripod leg, and make sure the antennae is oriented for where you plan to control it. I've seen kits out there that act as a range extender which may help.
Love the comparison, as a beginner I struggled with going with an all in one, or a DIY. I went with a DIY because I hate the idea of not being able to swap parts or fix it. Great to see people will get what the will pay for here, and not something that is only worth a fraction of the spare parts kit.
It is interesting, I have ASIAir Version one and through all the time using it I had a problem with wi-fi maybe only once, because I was too far away or my phone changed the WIFI.
However, when using it your VPN must be set OFF otherwise it won't connect.
When you connect your asiair to its WiFi click the WiFi symbol at the top of your screen and select don’t ask again. Problem solved. You won’t have any more disconnects. It was nothing to do with the asiair but it was your Android phone swapping to a stronger signal.
Thank you!
Thanks for the review, I can confirm CovalENS is pretty awesome, eliminates walking noise, only drawback is it currently increases time by about a third…. Ie will take 1.5 hrs to get 1 hr of data. That may improve when it gets out of beta but in my opinion it’s well worth using this mode. The only other thing is I would be interested in your impressions of the narrowband filter, not many of these are in the wild…. I personally jerryrigged a l’enhance to use but still am interested in how good their proprietary filter is. I’ve had my vespera for 11 months now, awesome machine , highly recommended
It seems very similar to an L-eNhance. If I have time in the next two weeks (before I have to return the Vespera), I will try to analyze it with my spectrophotometer. Thanks for the confirmation about the awesomeness of CovalENS - normal dithering can add a lot of time to an imaging session too.
Interested in the testing of the Narrowband filter as well 😊
@@NebulaPhotos you should request to keep it, pretty pleasant to image from your living room when it’s cold out, lots of fun to keep tabs on comets and supernova that normally would not make the cut in a session. Anyway… just saying it has its place, if you keep it you will find yourself setting it outside every time it’s clear, I use a Wi-Fi extender so that I have a strong signal from the recliner…. Fun!
I feel like Upgradability and Cost were a bit underrepresented or understated in the criteria here. The Vespera is nice, but being a closed system, the cost to upgrade from it is the same as starting out from scratch (mount, telescope, camera, filters, etc.). You also don't learn much that you can apply to a different setup in the future so not only would you start out from scratch money-wise, but pretty close to it experience-wise as well.
I started with an ASI Air 533mc Pro, and a Redcat 51 (which doesn't have backfocus challenges) and the 32mm guide scope and cam on an inexpensive goto mount. It was super easy and I was imaging Andromeda that same night. As I learned more and realized what I like or not, and what I really wanted to image, I added more, upgraded parts, etc. I added a filter wheel and filters, and an autofocuser. I still have the Redcat which is still usable for wide-field imaging and I've used the camera and filters on a completely different scope.
But I get the market and why folks may want the Vespera. I'm similar with 3d printers. I prefer to have something I can take out of the box and start printing, as opposed to a project that will take me time to set up. That's because I use 3d printing to support other hobbies, not as a hobby in itself. It may be that some feel the same way about astrophotography and just want some cool pics. :)
As with most hobbies, the forums (Cloud Nights is a big one here) are super useful for making initial decisions.
This is my exact thought. You can't upgrade to the all in one, you either buy it or don't. The spare parts rig is in the upgrade path which means you can start out with much less, this is a big thing for me because with the all in one, you can't explore the hobby, you are essentially just buying a hobby and hoping that it sticks, considering it's meant to be for amateur folks, it's a very costly entry point.
Anecdotally, I'm just thinking of starting out, I'm going to see what my phone and a cheap tripod can do, and if things work out then I'll be going down the 2000d route as the next step and just do that with a basic tripod and then gradually upgrade and add to that over time. The only waste for the next 5 or 6 upgrade steps is going to be the £20 tripod I've ordered for my phone, and at every step I am quit without feeling like I've just wasted a load of money. I'm gonna learn a ton along the way, and I'll know the what and why of each bit. Heck, even just the importance of a tripod, the shakey photos of Mars and jupiter from last night were enough to teach me that lesson, as well as making sure my phone is in pro mode so I get the raw format images. Point is, no way am I going to pop for £2500 on an all in one while I'm learning the hobby and learning my enjoyment of the hobby.
Need to use it as a tool? In that case I'd imagine much of the knowledge has been built and that there are better options as surely that's moving more into the pro category? Unless just looking to capture a bunch of stock photos to try and flog online.
Awesome video and comparison. Another criteria you might add to the comparison is 'nurtures genuine interest in the hobby.' Not to be a gate keeper, but does a device like the Vespera encourage a "paint by number" approach to night sky imaging, vs the blood, sweat and tears that others put into it? I'm not in the blood, sweat and tears category, so I'm not pretendingto be something I'm not, but I do respect genuine effort and have a greater appreciation for the fruits of that effort. My worry is that a device like this potentially dilutes the genre in favor of people who might have money, but not as much knowledge or talent. I'm probably just too old fashioned and grumpy...
For the cost of the home made rig, you need to add a computer to the cost.
You need it to process your raw files on and also the processing software, for photo stacking and editing.
The vespera is operated via an app, everyone has a phone or a tablet, not everyone owns a computer.
You didn't mention livestacking or the fact that Vespera can allow multiple users to connect and see the results live, which is a plus for outreach or family, or other group. Vespera is also a solution for those with disabilities that prevent them from assembling a traditional rig. But on the negative side, looking at the target audience, how many Vespera users will do post-processing with Pixinsight or similar tools? And the fact that it's an upgrade dead-end means the Vespera isn't a good starter system. Compare that to a Redcat 51 on a StarAdventurer GTI and a DSLR, which costs about the same (cheaper if you go used or a less expensive scope), all things that you will continue to use as you progress through the hobby. I think the Vespera is a supplement to what astrophotographers currently do, not a replacement. But hats off to the engineers who designed it. It is a slick piece of technology.
Yes, I agree with all your points, especially the last one - it's just so slick and well-engineered that I'm glad I got to play around with it.
Something simpler than vespera would be to just google Astro photos and save them. To me its as good as letting someone else take photos for you. The point of AP is the alignment, the scopes, getting things to work together, having the ability to navigate the sky etc. This is similar to Cellphone cameras mimicking Full frame DSLR photos.
The end result from an automated scope and an AP rig is to generate a final photo that can be post processed. Not everyone has the time to setup their scope and do all of the other necessary steps needed to generate Astro pictures. People can still learn a great deal about the night sky starting off with these. Many users eventually get curious and opt to build their own rigs down the road. Though it’s not cheap, it is a good way to help people gain interest in ap.
@@thanutz I disagree. I think the thing to bring into the equation is whether it's a hobby or not. For outreach and education about space, sure, all in one is great, and the funds are likely there to justify the one time large spend. But if it's to try as a hobby, then I'd argue that the lowest cost entry point is super critical. Not many people have that amount of money to just blow on a maybe of a hobby. After pushing the phone to the limits the natural next step is something like a 2000d, basic version which can be added to over time as the hobby grows and without a single large cost. That's my plan at least, I'm starting out and the all in one is only what I'd consider if I wanted to buy "endgame" which I'd do for a few weeks and then pop on a shelf and never look at again. You can't buy fully formed hobbies, you have to develop them.
But, to reiterate the above, outreach and education, sure, I can totally see a market for it there.
@@azenafelicia6618 I like Vespera approach for two reasons: 1) less time devoted to setup means more time for post processing and 2) discreet. The latter is important as a husband and parent. I can plop Vespera out at night, operating independently with its Planning function. Then collect it next morning. In the meantime, still actively engaged with my family and marriage. Whereas with surfing, my previous addiction, it was at least a half day affair away from the family. My wife doesn’t deserve to be another golf widow. Neither my kids. Like everything in life, a nice compromise.
The problem is if anything goes wrong with the robot scope it all goes wrong but with the other you can change out bits and pieces.Another thing is I do a reasonable bit of optical astronomy with my own eyes and as I understand it you can't look into the Vesperia.
This is the real fly in the all-in-one design concept. Internal component longevity and failure rate per unit produced per cost is too uncertain. How many are going to be found on eBay as parts units within 2-5 years?
I've seen 'parts only' Stellina already available on eBay for the past 6-7 months and user reports on groups where some units just suddenly develop issues.
With a built kit you can replace a failing component easily. Not so with these all-in-ones.
For the cost per aperture I would expect a high level of reliability and shelf life.
I’m not a big fan of these fully automatic systems. As you pointed out, upgradability is very limited as is the option to try out different settings/configurations. I know they’re convenient for public outreach but I wouldn’t brave cold weather to image with one like I do with my imaging setup.
Excellent video as always. I think from what I read, the Vespera doesn't have any connections to allow you to import files and have to connect via Wi-Fi to download them, it would've been better had they had a micro-sd card or something to download the images to for post-processing, rather than transfer via Wi-Fi. Again, awesome video. Oh, and please do a video also on the Dwarf Labs Dwarf 2, if you could.
That is correct. I did find the wi-fi transfer process pretty seamless, but I could see a USB port or micro-sd card being a good option for future products from Vaonis. I am in contact with DWARF about their product - will likely do a video.
@@NebulaPhotos the more expensive Stellina has support for usb thumb drives / external storage. Vespera just has the internal 11gb of user storage space that you can ftp from after imaging
I have a Stellina and love it.
Woah nice!
Last week at our public star party we had over 7000 people attend (Griffith Observatory, Los Angeles). My Vespera was a huge hit. Several people said they want to buy one. Its ease of use was the biggest selling point. The app is the weak link in the chain. This also applies to the Unistellar eVscope as well. I was an original investor in these electronic telescopes. I wanted new technology brought to amateur astronomy in the form of integrated platforms that anyone can use. The biggest minus is the price. These products were introduced at a bad time (Covid, inflation, etc.). Their future is unknown however.
How far away are we from mobile phone like setups where you’re getting images that rival the current crop of refractors that people have always used. I just bought the Seestar S50 because finally the price is in my ball park for a good beginners setup. Highly portable and clean, meaning no wires. I guess in the end we love this hobby for what it is. Enjoying what the night sky has to offer.
So I get where these "Robo rigs" have their place. For community outreach or introducing people to the night sky with their autostacking feature (not sure the Vaonis has this feature) they are great. For me though, the fun of AP is the challenge. How far can I push my image quality. Whether it be through better polar alignment, or composition, the use of correct filters, or the obvious, "just git gud" at processing lol. I would be afraid the Robo with its point and click would get boring real fast, then I'm stuck with a $2500 paper weight.
Like I said previously though there is a place for the Robos, I just say think long term before laying out that kind of cash.
I get your point, but as a counterpoint, trying to do anything with a scope in -20c is not fun, it is cold and miserable. Not sure the reviewed robot rig can handle that much cold, but I am hoping it can. Nothing beats sitting inside in the warmth while your scope is doing the work out in the cold.
@@juslitor WTF are you doing shooting astro in -20? Nothing works at that ttemp. Batteries die, mount gears stiffen, electronic lcd screens freeze, and you touch anything without gloves you're gonna burn your hands. No way would I put a robo out in that. Eq mount with a belt drive maybe, but I will bet those robo mount gears are plastic and would shatter to a miliion pieces in those temps.
@@barrymak421 In my neck of the woods the winter brings clouds, the few times its clear skies is when its bloody cold. You play the cards youre dealt, or just leave your scope inside gathering dust. Summer isnt an option, basically isnt dark enough after beginning of may to end of august.
@@juslitor How do you keep your electronics from gumming up at that temp? I would imagine even a 100 ah battery doesn't last more than a few hours because your gonna spend 3/4 of your power just keeping the damn thing warm.
@@barrymak421 When I braved the elements i used an extension cord and ran my stuff from the grid. Didnt have batteries beefy enough to take out in below freezing. Add the other inconvenciences like, cant breathe anywhere near the optics, somehow that moisture always ends up on the lenses/mirrors. Also cant stand anywhere near the front of the tube while imaging, warm air rising from me always ended up in front of the tube and blurred the images.
Ordered a vespera, only thing I don't like about it is you have to buy the filters separately which isn't cheap, and that hydrometer should have come with the unit.
I know you and Cuiv "THE LAZY GEEK" collaborated a while ago on a comparison effort photographing the Pleiades cluster.
He did a similar video to this one some time back where he built a Raspberry Pie based astroprocessor of his own, similar to the asiair. He paired this with a guider I'm unfamiliar with, to compare it with I believe was the same turnkey solution in this video. Kool that your doing similar. Makes me wonder if playing with all these parts is worth it. I like playing with toys too much, to not build though. Been a geek for 66 of my 73 years.
I have had the same network disconnect issue with my ASIAir Pro. I just recently discovered that it was because I had it set up in station mode and had both my primary home network plus a Wi-Fi extender. The issue was that the ASIAir was constantly trying to connect to different networks. Once I disconnected my Wi-Fi extender, I didn't have any more issues. The same thing happens when I try to connect directly to the ASIAir, it disconnects frequently when to try to reconnect to my home network. Disabling Autoconnect on all but the network you want to be connected to will resolve the issue.
Nico - I have recently started getting into astrophotography and just recently discovered your channel. Great stuff with a lot of usable info, so thank you for all the hard work you do creating your videos. It has been a valuable resource.
I have been trying to decided between using my R5, with a Canon 100-500mm L Lens on a Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer GTI or getting the Vespera II. I am having a difficult time finding info on how the image quality of a Vespera II would compare with my Canon R5, being that the Vespera is only a 8.3 megapixel sensor vs the 45 of the R5. I know there are other factors to consider, but I have thus far found no clear answers. I had hoped this video was my answer, unfortunately it doesn't really cover what I am considering.
I would be curious to hear your thoughts, and any suggestions you might have as to where I might find more info online regarding this comparison. Thanks again for all the great info. I am subscribed and will be watching.
Brett B.
Great video as always! Amazing how good the images from the all in one solution get. Did you ever think about comparing a sigma FP camera against the ZWO as slow budget option? I read amazing things about its quality for astro. Ordered one and will astromodify it, I guess. 😉
Yes, I own the fp, and would be interested to do more with it including putting it in comparison reviews. Not sure if I will get it modified or not. It's not the most usable camera for astrophotography (no software tethering options except capture one, which is an expensive subscription), no flippy screen, but the price is quite good for the quality of the full frame sensor inside, and I like the minimal form factor /design too - sort of like an industrial camera.
@@NebulaPhotos haha sorry, I just saw it from a landscape astro standpoint. Of course you're right about that tethered shooting esp. For deep sky astro. There's a hdmi to usb capture card, so you can use your phone screen as external monitor to alleviate the screen problem. Or you mod it with a tilt (but not flip) screen, there's a mod around.
I do prefer the manual route and the significant added flexibility and upgradability with that setup. For me, going 'full auto' would take a huge chunk of fun out of it, and, a significant sense of accomplishment when a session went well with that excellent final picture. If I was rich/very affluent then of course, I'd also have the latest toy. If they could come up with a toy to get rid of those damn clouds then I'd be first in the queue.
if one component breaks in your put together kit the replacment would be easy, if one component breaks in the vespera it becomes an expensive paperweight
Nice one, as always.
However, please note that the statement that you need autoguiding for introducing dithering is not correct. Using APT, you can dither even if you're not autoguiding. Doing this, your Spar parts setup might deliver a much better outcome without investing a single more penny. This improved result should be compared with the robot's outcome, with and without taking into account the contructor promise about dithering.
Another great video, thanks!. Do you think you'd ever compare the Vespera to the Dwarf II?
I really like the look of the Vespera however for the price point I feel the moisture sensor should be included.
The Dwarf 2 is the only smart scope that you can EQ mount. The seestar uses dithering
Hopefully you'll inspire me to go out and shoot Orion more haha
Glad someone used 462 mc for deep sky at last. I have a 462mc i do planetary, but yet to know it's potential for deep sky.
This reminds me of Astrobiscuits video with the Stellina. Personally I feel like this and the Stellina take away from the fun but to each their own.
I can see how it sort of removes you a bit from the process and makes you feel less involved, but on the flipside, it allows many people with the lack of time or patience to get some of the experience, without all the frustration.
It may be your phone disconnecting. Some phones really want to go to a WIFI signal that has internet. You need to go into the phone's settings so it won't keep disconnecting from the ASIAIR. Also, you can connect to your home WIFI in station mode on the ASIAIR Plus.
Nico Thank you for taking the time to make this video. I just got one a week ago. My first picture was amazing. ( Orion nebula) Almost too amazing. I was wondering if there are stock images loaded. I have a Redcat 51, ASI AirPlus, EAF, Goto mount. Zwo 183mc main camera and a ZWO 120 mini guide camera. ( With your help I learned how to use this). Anyway, I was running them at the same time. The results from the Vaonis were so stunning, I was wondering if they were fake. One question I have, it seems the only way to stop Vaonis from shooting is to manually interrupt it? If you set a plan in place, does it just run that? I couldnt get a set plan to run. Many thanks and Happy New Year.
Hi Michael, yes in the default mode, the only way to stop it is manually with the app. I know there is a plan mode, but unfortunately I can’t help as I didn’t have time to test it. I did get a chance to test the mosaic mode before I returned the unit and can confirm it takes longer, but does get rid of walking noise. As for having pictures loaded, no, I don’t think so. You can ftp into the file system of the vespera from a PC and the individual 10s photos look identical to my Frankenstein setup. I think I showed a comparison in this video. Enjoy your vespera; glad you like it! 👍
These automated rigs are fine for people with little patience or who do not actually want to get into this hobby/obsession. There is no way someone can learn and master the complexity involved using a telescope like this.. personally, I feel proud of what I've learned and with the images I create and I would not feel as fulfilled with a completely automatic set up like these robotic telescopes...
Field rotation and the alt-Az mode of the Vespera would limit how long the subs could be. Wonder if someone is going to include a derotator in any of these at some point. That adds complexity but at the price it seems justified. Otherwise eq mode is the main advantage of the home built setup.🎉
I was writing a similar comment. With 10 seconds subs, Nico played the Vespera rules. But with an equatorial mount, he is not limited to 10 seconds subs. Does 60 subs of 10 seconds give the same result as 20 subs of 30 seconds, or 10 subs of 60 seconds ? Which strategy reduces signal to noise ratio ?
@@JulienDompierre For your last question, it's going to depend on several factors. My rule of thumb is take the longest subs possible for your sky conditions. Longer is always better for a couple reasons. First is the obvious one hard disc space. If you have to take 800 subs to get an hours worth of data, plus calibration frames, with even a modest mega pixel count is going to take up a ton of space. The other big one is longer subs bring out more fine detail in your stacked image. There is some math that goes into why this is the case, but this response is alread too long winded lol. The long and the short of it, is take a test shot, look at your histogram and adjust before you run a full image sequence.
@@JulienDompierre usually longer exposure = better because given the same total exposure time (ie 60s x 20 frames Vs 20s x 60 frames) you end up with less read noise from the sensor.
In reality it depends on the actual amount of read noise of the sensor, with modern CMOS you hit diminishing returns from long exposures pretty fast.
I'm pretty sure it's pointless to go above 60s with any modern camera
@@barrymak421 longer isn't always better.
As my other message says at a point you hit diminishing returns, above a certain threshold (that depends on the sensor performance) longer exposure not only provides no benefit but it complicates stuff by being harder to guide, more susceptible to clouds, wind gusts or satellites etc, by saturating brighter stars more etc.
@@v0ldy54 I agree, but I answered what I assumed was someone newer to the hobby. Just based on the nature of the question. Someone who is new likely will not be guiding, (or shouldn't be) nor capturing subs that come anywhere near reaching full well depth of most modern sensors.
That being said, I do get your meaning and should have added some more caveats.
Looks like a great rig for the non geek guy. Great review, thanks.
Interesting comparison. Thanks.
Nico, would love to see you really push the Vespera. Like what are its results if you let it run all night for 8 hrs? what about multiple nights? Can you use specific light filters with it? What are its max exposure times etc?
If you use CovalENS mode (mosaic mode) it dithers. I only use that mode on my Vespara.
Completely off topic and I apologize however I'm looking around CZcams trying to find a tutorial for thing called unimap. I think it would be a marvelous thing for you to do on a 15-minute Friday to explain how to take a picture you've done put it through the system and see how to get it to identify and match your photo to a star map. I've only seen two videos of it and that's have no audio. I'm confident you can do a magnificent job on it.
12:50 android message came in :)
i for one welcome our new robot overlords
This one’s gonna be good 😊
Great Video, I am very intrigued with the Vespera setup as I am looking for something more automated than my current setup. I don't believe you mentioned it in the video, (if you did and I missed it I apologize), but how dark were the skies where this was tested? If it was near or at where you live I don't believe the skies are very dark. I live on a remote off grid canyon ranch in a dark sky area (bortel 1/2) and I was wondering what your thoughts were regarding the different results in a bortel 1/2 sky vs bortel 4/5 or whatever yours was at the time especially pertaining to the walking noise, etc.? Thank you in advance.
Vespera is currently on sale at retailers for $1999 USD until 25th of December
I wish the Vespera had at least an 80 mm aperture.
I was just thinking about insurance for my gear, must be approaching a couple of grand if not more
Mirrosky do all these for you.
He have a too long focal legh i buyed evscope 2
Can the ASI Air not dither without a guide scope? I know that NINA can if you add a virtual guider.
As an advocate of the ASIAIR, the WiFi trouble was not you, it's terrible. Station mode is good. Set the tripod down in the garden, connect to your router, move NOTHING and WiFi will be hit or miss. You can be sitting 1m away and it will still throw a wobbler and kick you off. I'm on a PC now.
The WiFi disconnect issue Nico had is an Android quirk. Android tablets and phones are always trying to connect to the internet so they can communicate with Google. You need to tell the Android tablets and phones to ignore any other WiFi than the ASIAIR. This isn’t a problem with Apple iPad or phones.
Thanks Bill. I figured this particular thing was an issue with my Android phone, and all the WiFi devices around (GTi Mount, Vespera, etc.) competing for dominance. The curious thing was even after I told it to 'forget those networks' it continued bouncing me off. I'll have to experiment some more. I do have an iPhone as well for testing purposes, and in my indoor test the ASIAir was working well with that.
The optics seem better on the Vespera? Not liking the shape of the stars on the other one? That said, you get some flaring with the Vespera.
Okay, it is a black box. You need not to understand the nightsky. You need not to orientate and find objects. You need not to process anything afterwards. So, what ist the difference to Google?
But if you party under the nightsky with people, you have a nice gadget you can show. Is it worth the money? It's your decision!
Why would u not understand the nightsky when using this?
@@zebrastudio68 i didn't write "would not"", i wrote "need not". That's a small difference...
Yeah, maybe if I had 3 grand to just throw away, but the ability to repurpose already procured components is just to important to me. As it is, where's the challenge? As someone just getting in to Astro, if I wanted a box that just fed me pictures, I would just watch JWST videos on CZcams and just take the 2500 to Vegas. I'd take 500 to the casino and 2 grand to the Mustang Ranch 😋
Precisely!
What are those line visible in the image taken by the Vespera on 6:08 without any filter? I seem to get the same kind of lines in my images (shooting on a fixed kit), and how do I eliminate them?
For m it makes sense to compare them at their maximum since the differences have a goal. So, ASIAIR with guiding is important. Besies, costing the same, the fact one could change the telescope for wide field or increase the focal distance is pretty much the reason to get a flexible system. Does this Vaonis work with which type of power? Because the GTI one need only batteries (without the asiair).
Hi Raphael, I'd say the power situation is pretty good with the Vespera. It can run for about 4-5 hours off it's internal battery, but you can also hook up an external battery bank at any time to run it longer. My setup with the GTi, needed separate power leads (or AA batteries) for the GTi, the dew heater (if using), and the ASIAir. Definitely possible to run it all off one big battery or a few separate smaller batteries. Definitely agree with you on the flexibility of a home built system. Clear skies, Nico
it would be interesting to have your opinion on move shoot move in similar manner. Big difference in price and portability . vespera interesting been dyslexic would simplfy matters greatly.
I have something planned where I will use a Move Shoot Move tracker - not sure when it will be done, but probably within the next few months.
U should make a comparison on dwarf 2 smart telescooe
Nico - do you remember what is the longest exposure setting for Vespera? 10s ? Or longer? I cannot find even in manual lol. Currently Dwarf II can do 15s and new ZWO Seestar will have same sensor as Vespera (for 1/6 of price!). As I know ALT-AZ mounts can track max to 20-30s exposure (if are good aligned to polaris too)
There are no exposure settings on the Vespera that I could see. I think the Stellina (more expensive) does have an 'expert' mode that allows one to set that. So you can't manually set an exposure length, but in my testing it was using 10 second exposures pretty consistently so that is what I did with my Frankenstein setup.
@@NebulaPhotos Thx for reply :) I'm asking because new ZWO product - Seestar S50 will use same sensor and probably it will be very close in specs to Vespera. ZWO claimed in press material that also they used 10s exposure so probably it's a max for this design. That's a pity, because Dwarf II can get 15s on even smaller sensor. Still Seestar could be a real steal for 400 USD.
Et tu? Not a fan of EAA. I thought sum of the parts of manual rig was way less than this EAA device.
Thing is I can afford to use it for visual too, which I doubt is possible in the EAA device.
Major problem with the likes of the Vespera is it's a one-trick pony.
It fills a niche, if there was no demand for a device like this, no one would manufacture it.
This will probably seem snobby but... I can't help but think that the kind of person who buys, this is almost certainly the kind of person who gets bored with it quickly, and puts in either on eBay or in a cupboard to gather dust.
Maybe it's just me, but the process, the struggle, the suffering, the work required, is 80% of why I enjoy my images.
If there was a push-button, turn-key system that did all the work for me... well... I might as well go look at someone else's images on the internet, in the warm, and save myself $2500. And they'll be far better quality images.
For many people, like me, we don’t have the time for all the blood, sweat and tears. I had a 7” Mak on an Eq mount with night vision eyepiece. It was not cheap. And it was heavy. I spent a lot of time fiddling to see a green ghostly object. With all the setup issues and weight, AP never even crossed my mind. With Stellina, I suddenly had time to focus on my PixInsight skills. I now have a Vespera for traveling and am amazed at the data I can get from such a small, tidy package.
You opened the images in Pixinsight. How much processing was done? Or is it all just stacked with Asian and VESPERA's "processor "?
I stacked them both with PixInsight so I could use the exact same number of frames for the comparison. No post-processing was done for the reveal, just stacking. The stack in PixInsight and the stacked tiff that the Vespera auto-generates look very similar. So PixInsight is totally not necessary, I just used it out of convenience for the comparison. Hope that makes sense.
@@NebulaPhotos
I can totally appreciate what, and why you did this. The problem with many of you guys, whom, as I've said previously, are humble and patient in keeping things "dumbbed down" for us newbies. However from time to time you do stuff that's way out of our league. I don't see using $600 Pixinsight maybe ever. So someone using this sort of thing kind of pushes it up a few gears. Hope you understand what I'm saying. I believe the asiair autostacks to give a viewable previously to help the user figure framing etc. Not necessarily as a final image, but rather as an aid. I'm barely learning this thing T this point. Haha
does Vaonis provide any mechanism for taking flats? auto exposure or anything?
You can manually define targets and set the exposure settings such as image capture time and gain. Currently Vespera doesn't do flats, but Vaonis have said they are adding more features. You can save individual fits during the stack, jpgs or a stacked tiff file for post processing and stacking
Vespera is French!
🟦⬜🟥
VIVE LA FRANCE !!!!
I am so close to deciding between the Vespera and the Unistellar Equinox 2. They are about the same price and appear to be similar in performance. Any advice in helping me to make a decision? I could not find a single person that has both and given a rating on which is best.
I just buyed an equinox 2 for his performances.
But its your choice vespera is good for big deep sky objects but for planets its impossible
Could I ask you to review the Dwarf2 which claims the same thing as this AI robot. I purchased one for 450 and waiting for delivery 01-01-23 I am considering canceling my order.
I have been testing it. Definitely not comparable to this in its current state. I know they are still working on the software, but knowing the optics, I doubt it would ever compare.
Hi... Nikko... How did you get the Vaonis images output from Ves pera...? Thanks for share
Hi Luis, I connected to the Vespera Wifi from my computer, and once connected I could drag and drop them to my computer. It was pretty easy. Instructions here: support.vaonis.com/portal/en/kb/articles/how-to-save-my-pictures-on-my-laptop-mac-users This link is for Mac, but if you look on the right, they also have instructions for Windows and Linux.
Thanks Nico..
Are the exposures limited to 10s?
Yes, at least when I tested it this was the case.
How do u frame the objects to our requirements in vespera
With the Mosaics mode, when you select an object or set manual targets (coordinates / exposure time / gain / imaging type) you get an interface that shows you surrounding objects and you can rotate / pinch zoom the mosaic size
What tripod are you using with the Vespera?
Bogen 3001
@@NebulaPhotos Thanks a lot for the reply! I just got my Vespera, with the three available filters and hygrometer. Can’t wait to test it out against my Unistellar eVscope.
Next level after Vespera is to just download an image from the internet and stay inside. I think the fun is in hacking the rig together.