Exactly. Hockey rinks are around 200x85 and NBA courts are 94x50. When the Coyotes came to what was then America West Arena, there were seats where only one end of the rink could be seen. The sight lines sucked ass.
@@ecstasycalculusyes the Grizzlies of the IHL relocated from Denver shortly after Colorado brought in the Nordiques out of Quebec. The Utah Grizzlies now play at the Maverik Center and compete in the ECHL (Double-A Hockey a tier below the AHL)
San Diego is interesting. There's virtually no overlap re the schedule vs. the Padres, they just lost their NFL team, Seattle and Vegas are getting the new NBA franchises, but they would need 1) A fully financed new arena. 2) A deep-pocketed owner who wants to own and NHL team and willing to accept yearly losses (money) if it occurs. 3) A demonstration that San Diego sports fans would show up to the games (say a season ticket drive collecting advance deposits).
Midway rising and the city of SD have finished their environmental report. Shovels are going to be going in by the end of the year. There is also 'talk' about the MLS owner of SD FC interested potentially, we shall see. Would be a great prospect, given the long time success of Gulls and the departure of that one, franchise.......
The thing about Québec city is that they used to have a team and nobody except the owner were ready to let it go! Honestly coming from a québecois from Québec city, I don’t want to go to mtl to watch a game! A team in Québec would be great and there is a fan base coming from other places around the city who doesn’t want to drive 3 hours to go to Montreal! Every time there’s a hockey game in the videotron center it’s always full! That goes for minor league and nhl game
Quebec City can definitely support a team. If nothing else, a team in Quebec City would let companies in Montreal, that can't get seats there, buy seats in the Videotron Centre. Winnipeg doesn't have a city of 4.3 million people, 2 and a half hours away, wanting tickets and skyboxes. Montreal does that for Quebec City. Just get Bettman out of there. He doesn't understand anything.
@@FunnyBone A microscopic TV market and Metropolitan area The team that never sold out and always got outnumbered in their own area by Bruins and Rangers fans?
Why would Arizona be first in line? If the situation is bad enough for the Coyotees to relocate, why would the NHL be so quick to come back? If the Coyotees can`t make it work, what would be different with an expansion team?
@@jtfritz9169 Arizona is not first in line. What was said was that the current Coyotes owner would get the bid for a new expansion team in Phoenix if the NHL decides to come back, which they will, but probably not until the second round around 2029. Atlanta and San Diego will likely get the teams for 2027-2028 because both have arena plans soon to begin construction as well as public support. Houston has some things to work out as they don't have a new arena or plans or even a vested owner. The Rockets owner does not want an NHsl team, nor does he want to share the arena with an NHL team. Phoenix has no current backing, huge obstacles having to do with infrastructure laying, as well as public opposition, but I think all these issues will be resolved in the next couple years and that Houston and Phoenix will become the 35th and 36th teams by 2029-2030. The NHL is not going to Quebec City because of the Canadian dollar and small market. They are not going to Hamilton because of the Canadian dollar and small market, as well as opposition from Toronto and Buffalo. They likely won't go to KC considering their attendance issues in the ECHL or their small market size, not to mention the poor attendance of the Royals. Much the same could be said Cincinnati. The league is not going to Milwaukee because of the small market size and competition with the Bucks, not to mention Chicago Blackhawks owner against it. This, these four are your likely choices. Atlanta, Houston, Phoenix, San Diego.
You always say that hockey rinks and basketball courts are practically the same size. They’re not. Hockey rinks are double the length at 200 feet and significantly wider at 85 feet plus benches and penalty boxes. This is the reason why you hate college hoops played in NBA arenas. Most of them are also hockey and so the actual stands are set way farther off the court. The first 5-10 rows are pretty flat before you reach the permanent seats in the bowl.
@@segasys1339 Exactly. The hockey setup was terrible and they broke a 25 year lease after 3 years to go back to their old place, which was basically the hockey equivalent of Tropicana Field.
A Microscopic metropolitan area and TV market. Once again Ice Hockey fans prove they are the most delusional on why sports teams are located where they are
The Delta Center was built totally with basketball in mind with some ability to host a hockey team, but it doesn't configure well with hockey, so a new arena is needed, although Canada is more passionate about hockey, very few large market areas and lack of population in Canada doesn't draw the money like US cities so a better bet for NHL expansion in the United States.
Ice Hockey fans are the most delusional on why teams are located where they are It's about selling hats. It's about corporate sponsorships. TV ratings. Long term population and demographics trends for a market It's why the Dakotas don't have a team. Bigger metro areas = more potential customers. It's why NHL tried hard to stay in Atlanta and only begrudgingly moved them. Its why they tried hard to keep a team in AZ
The Delta centre was purpose built for basketball. Same with the Barclays centre it didn’t work well for The Islanders. But the Delta centre is a definite upgrade from Mullet arena.
The intent is for it to be temporary. Unlike Arizona, their arena plans will go through. The city has set aside $900M for a new hockey arena & they will be hosting the Winter Olympics again within the next 10 years and need a new arena.
As a Coyotes fan, I am not against bringing this team back via expansion. It will be nice for this team to have a fresh start. All of the hate this team got, all of the years of being called “poverty franchise”. I’m ok with hitting the reset button with this team. Plus, it’s not a guarantee that the current team will do well in Salt Lake City. They have good prospects, but it doesn’t guarantee a dynasty. Look at the Chicago White Sox. Everyone thought they’d be the next best dynasty, but that rebuild was unsuccessful
@@Carrollavirusit’s not, but considering how good expansion teams in the NHL have done in the past, it’s very possible. But rn we just need to get our team back. That’s my number 1 focus
The league had to own the Coyotes for some time to prevent them from ceasing operation if anything what has happened with them moving to Salt Lake City it was a walking corpse finally put out of its misery
I believe Bettman still doesn't want to give up the (large) Phoenix market. I think if a new arena is built, Arizona will get an expansion franchise as I think the NHL will eventually move to 36 teams.
Personally, I don’t think we need more than 32 teams in any of the 4 major sports leagues. If you do, you not only risk diluting the talent pool in each league, but you also mess up the balance of each league. Not to mention you make life a living hell for the schedule makers, whose jobs are always under-appreciated.
Houston and Atlanta are North America's #7 and #8 largest media markets, respectively. Although a downtown NHL venue in Houston would work, Atlanta's plan for a suburban destination (Alpharetta - near the Atlanta Braves stadium district) might be the secret sauce given that the NHL in downtown Atlanta hasn't worked. If I had to guess, the Winnipeg Jets are likely headed to Houston. A second team in the Toronto Area seems unlikely, especially with the Buffalo Sabres - needing a new arena in their own right - anchoring the Golden Horseshoe megaregion.
You keep saying Houston doesn't excite you ,but do your research. Houston has the second most fortune 500 companies behind New York city.There is alot of corporate money there and Houston is about to pass Chicago as 3rd largest city in the USA.
NHL will keep adding teams in USA . Adding all these teams in the south and west has helped ratings. Still has a way to go. Adding up in Canada makes no sense. Winnipeg has a good team and terrible attendance. They will be lucky if they can keep the team there. Canada is at their limit and may be losing the Jets shortly. They add nothing to the ratings in USA.
Having warm weather teams like the Lightning and Golden Knights having consistent success like they both are only helps the cause for expansion to be more focused in the US as the narrative of “warm weather teams can’t succeed” vanishes.
NHL and all the other sports leagues study population and demographics forecasts for metro areas. Canada isn't growing outside of Toronto Montreal or Vancouver. US is booming in population. Canada's economy is weaker. NHL knows Canada people will still watch ice hockey even if their market doesn't have a team. NHL knows they need the USA more than they need Canada.
The original success of the Quebec Nordics was due to the team stocking their roster with French Canadian players who the fans loved that’s something’ that will be hard to do in this era
They're not going to another Canadian market. 1. It doesn't grow hockey as everyone in Canada that is going to like hockey already does. 2. The exchange rate now is worse than when Winnipeg and Quebec moved in the 90's. 3. Quebec will be the #1 team on no trade lists as they can be openly hostile to non-french speakers. 4. Toronto and Buffalo will fight to prevent another team in southern Ontario. 5. Hockey is the most gate revenue-dependent sport and Quebec was trying to out-california California when it came to COVID lockdowns. nordiques 2.0 would be cool but they're going to be priced out in expansion fees or buying a team and relocation fees.
Agreed with everything. Winnipeg has attendance issues and Ottawa still hasn’t officially secured an arena even Buffalo might have issues with Pegula dissolving PSE but assume they stay they’ll pick Atlanta and Phoenix under the condition they win the auction. If not, Houston likely takes it. Also Canada economy is doing poorly thanks to Justin Castro Jr lol
Hartford won't happen. The NHL doesn't have an interest in Connecticut with the Bruins, Rangers and Islanders so close by. They'd prefer to expand in larger markets like Atlanta, Houston and back in Arizona.
@@robynryan7473Just so Hartford gets out numbered in their own city by Bruins and Rangers fans whenever they play those teams? Just like back in the 90s? Too small of a metropolitan area/TV market. And it's losing population too
I know. It hurts and as a whalers fan I've learned to accept we may never have a hockey team again. But for the time being it was special. I still wear my whalers stuff all the time.
@@FAITHandLOGICExactly. Ice Hockey fans are the most delusional on why sports teams are where they are. It's about TV market size and metropolitan area population
The good thing with Toronto 2 is you have 2 potential spots either going down to highway 401 to Kitchener where you supersize the 12k new auditorium or down the qew in Hamilton where they have the first Ontario centre renovation sharing the rink with the Toronto Rock😊
With all do respect, no effing way should Toronto get a second team! Jesus, they can’t even win a Stanley Cup with their current franchise! It’s been what 57 years. there is no way that Mapleleaf fans would root for a second team in the city, it’s ludicrous! If you want to put one in Hamilton or Quebec City or somewhere else in that area, if it meant that they are getting a franchise in Canada somewhere, then, yes, I would agree with Hamilton or Quebec City. However, as quite a few people have pointed out in the comments here, the American dollar is more than the Canadian dollar, and the NHL probably doesn’t want to touch Canada anytime soon, which is why if they expand, it will be in the United States, or should be.
Agreed. I am sick of these same tired arguments with people remaining ignorant to what happened in Atlanta. I do my best on here to reveal the facts, but many people disregard the truth. The reality is that many don't like Atlanta because deep-down they know that Atlanta is a huge city and that it is a legitimate threat to them getting a team in their small northern cities.
No one I know believes it was fan attendance. People who know anything about the Thrashers knew that similarly to the Coyotes, the ownership group doesn't know how to run a hockey team and the League did the same thing and didn't step in when the writing was on the wall.
the huge population boom due to a lot of northern transplants should help atlanta's case in getting a new team. all we really need is a serious ownership group
I could see the Anaheim Ducks moving to San Diego in the future. Rumors of Angels relocating and the Honda center is really old as well. The Ducks minor league team is the San Diego Gulls.
@michaelleroy9281 one of my good friends that works for the Angels and lives in Tustin told me within the organization it has been talked about if things don't go a certain way on the future.
@@JiKeeY202Stan Kroenke has put money behind a new arena and development in San Diego where the current Pechanga arena sits and the San Diego Gulls play. It just cleared environmental report and shovels will be in the ground soon. The Gulls draw well in San Diego and Amaheim isn't going to be building a new Arena to replace the Honda Center.
In the next few years I see the NHL growing to 36 bringing in Portland Oregon, Houston Texas, Kansas City Missouri and Atlanta Georgia as well as going back to the three divisions per conference format and 1-8 playoff format
Unlike the current 30 teams in the NBA & MLB, the IDEAL number for teams per league imo is 32 like the current NFL & NHL formats. This EXACT number will prevent talent dilution and hence maintain overall quality of play per league. There should never be more than 32 teams with expansion to a new city occurring only as a result of a failing franchise...
I don't know where all those seats went. The playing area is pretty much identical.... First clue punches you in the face? Ignore it. Run with it anyway and immortalize it.
I'll give you a wild card that probably won't happen, but might be fun to think about. The NHL admits the AHL Chicago Wolves into the league. The team is independently owned and is not currently affiliated with an NHL team. They play in an arena that seats 17,000. Believe it or not, they have a decently sized group of fans who dislike the Blackhawks. When the Blackhawks were horrible to watch in the late 90s and early 00s, the Wolves gained a lot of support and validity as a Chicago sports team by winning 4 IHL/AHL championships. So I think it's viable. The only way I see the NHL wanting to do it is if they want to expand to 36 and only have 3 viable expansion candidates in new markets. The Wolves would be a quick fix.
If they expand they should do 40, but take their time to get the right cities. I say if they expand they should expand into the western US. Portland and SF/Oakland teams, Milwaukee, Houston.
Phoenix metro area is country's 11th largest. They just need a new hockey only arena. Minnesota Wild did this in the twin cities area. Minneapolis and the timberwolves have the target center and st. paul has xcel energy arena and the Wild. With a better owner than this one who will actually pay the rent and other costs to the city , the hockey team will succeed there.
Toronto and Buffalo are connected by a 100 mile highway. There has been talk of locating a second Toronto team in the city of Hamilton, Ontario which is smack in the middle of that 100 mile stretch.. There is certainly is the population (the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) is over 7 million) but I don't see the NHL having 3 franchises lined up on a 100 mile stretch of highway.
Islanders, Rangers, Devils? ...but Toronto would throw a fit with a 2nd team in the city or with neighbors, and then add Buffalo to that since they draw a huge number of Canadians to games.
With the NHL pulling out of Phoenix, they only have a presence in 5 of the 10 largest cities in the US, 8 of 10 by tv market. I think they financially have to go to Houston.
People overlook this. The NHL can't afford another Canadian team. Atlanta, Houston, and Phoenix are on deck. Phoenix would be contingent on Coyotes' ownership securing a stadium site. If they do get a site this year, we would probably be looking at Phoenix and Atlanta for 2027 or 2028. Houston will be the go-to relocation threat for teams like Winnipeg.
@@vamoscrucerosExcept for the fact that they can afford another Canadian team. If they support and own a trash franchise like Arizona and keep bailing them out they can have another Canadian team.
@@vamoscruceros Except they could afford another Canadian team, just one though And I hope the expansion won't be in Phoenix and Atlanta for some time too Other cities might be in front of them like Houston, also KC have some unused arena though, that should be considered too And if the rumours about having 4 expansions are true that leaves one more city, maybe either Portland or Hartford is good
Houston financially as well has second most fortune 500 companies behind New York City that's alot of corporate money also Houston tv market is big. Houston is about to pass Chicago for 3rd largest city in the USA.
@@alexwinter3272 You are So Delusional. Even if only 20% of Houston Atlanta and Arizona care about hockey that's still MORE people than in all of Manitoba, Nova Scotia, Quebec City metropolitan areas. More people equals more potential customers. Small market Canada is a burden (The US teams had to bail out all the small market Canada teams back in the 00s) Small Canada doesn't have number of people, the corporate sponsorship base, or the TV market size.
No it's not. NHL desperately tried to keep a team there and only begrudgingly let them go to small market Winnipeg. Atlanta Houston and Phoenix will all be in the US's top ten metro areas. They are too big of market to ignore now. Even if only 20% of those metros care about ice hockey that's STILL more people than in all of Manitoba and Quebec City's metros
@@HoshizakiYoshimasa Even if only "20%" of those transplant-metros "support" the team, if the arenas aren't full, then none of that matters. Atlanta lost both of its teams to small markets in Canada. Quality > Quantity
32 to 36 teams: Expansion stage 1: Atlanta (East) and Phoenix (West) provided a new arena is built in Arizona (I'm convinced Bettman still wants a team in that market). Expansion stage 2: Houston (West) and another team in the East. Only problem: Which city in the eastern USA would support one long term? I don't think there is one, so Bettman may be forced to give Quebec City a team (modern arena already built with Quebecor as owner).
Coyotes deal included first right of refusal within 5 years if arena is built to bring nhl back to AZ…with AM’s $700mil profit from the sale, he will win the north phx property bid and build out his sports district…hockey will be back in AZ in 5 years or less.
Winnipeg has sold out 9 games since Christmas and are running at 97% capacity since the new year. Plus now they have sold out playoff games to add to revenue. The jets on Monday spent 680 million buying and renovating the mall next to MTS centre. I don’t think they would be spending 3 quarters of billion on portage place mall if they were broke. Plus David thomson is the richest owner in the NHL. The jets are fine.
Winnipeg shouldnt worry either. The arena only holds max of15,000 and the smallest in the league. They will always be last in attendance even if they sell out 97% of their games
you know Quebec province go watch Quebec nordiques game if they return . And the Québec province are the second most populated province in Canada. We want the rivival of the most intence rivality in the NHL history between Montreal vs Quebec City. Now the arena are there, the buyers are there , the governement want the team and the populations of Quebec province want the team. But NHL only thinking USA market and alots of Canadians are very frustrated against the NHL now.
NHL CORRECTLY understands it needs the Americans more than they need Canada. Quebec City metropolitan area doesn't even have 1 million people. Ice hockey may be Canada's game, but NHL needs America's MUCH larger and more diverse population and more wealth.
Canada is a vassal state for the US empire. NHL knows this. Even if only 20% of Houston Atlanta and Phoenix metro areas care about ice hockey that's STILL more people than in all of Quebec City's and Hamilton's metros. Besides the Small market Canada teams are US TV ratings poison in the postseason already
@@HoshizakiYoshimasa but you dont understand its not the Quebec City metropolitan you have to look but all the province of Quebec who are the second most populated in Canada. Its people from all corner of the province who go watch Nordiques play. I know that, i live 2 hours from Quebec city and in the 80's and 90's i go watch approximatively 10 to 20 games . alots of peoples from Montreal go watch the Nordiques games. You know in the end of the 80's and the start of the 90's Québec Nordiques finish last in the rankings but the arena are full each games. here its real hockey fans, not like in USA who like shitty sports like american football, basketball and baseball before hockey.
I really hope the NHL does not expand. Expanding to 32 teams has already diluted the talent by quite a bit. But Bettman and NHL owners are greedy so I have no doubt it will happen.
San Diego getting an NHL team would be nice since they’ll be rejuvenated as a sports city since they lost the Chargers. P.S.: I sincerely hope that an NBA team comes to San Diego as a basketball fan
Yeah you should definitely get an NBA team. There should be more teams on the west coast. If the Boston to DC corridor can support five or six teams - Boston, 2 or 3 NY, Philly, Baltimore and Washington - then the same should be true for California. You have that in baseball but not anywhere else. Is an arena being built there?
If they expanded the NHL, they might as well go to 36 teams so divisions can be more even than they are right now, basically things being more spread out than its current format. I think the 4 most likely cities involved would be Houston, Kansas City, Atlanta, and Quebec City. The last one could be replaced with Phoenix if somehow they got something situated after the Coyotes left for Salt Lake City. Here would be potential names for the 4 cities I mentioned: Houston Aeros Kansas City Bats (they’re popular animals in the area) Atlanta Thrashers Quebec City Nordiques If Phoenix gets the bid over Quebec City then they can go back to Coyotes. Kansas City could go with Raccoons, Boars, Mules, and Armadillos as well. With mules that is the Missouri state animal so it could be a possibility.
I mean i would love to see Canada get another team, we just don’t have the population and market size (a low dollar doesn’t help either) to support another team currently. Maybe when the NHL gets a new commissioner something will change but i highly doubt it
Leafs play in the heart of downtown Toronto (southern part of the city) right by Lake Ontario. A team with an arena in the northern part of Metro Toronto (Markham / Richmond Hill / Vaughn) would probably do well provided the Leafs are OK with it, which they may not be.
there has been talk of Hamilton, which is only 40 minutes from downtown Toronto (GTA) and is right in the middle of the 100 miles of highway separating the Buffalo Sabres and the Toronto Maple Leafs. 3 NHL franchises within 100 miles? Somehow I doubt it.
32 is the perfect symmetry number and each new team lowers the chances of championships for the rest but whatever. Houston Arizona and Atlanta for sure given how each Metro will be in the US's top 10 Metropolitan areas in population soon. And the fact NHL tried VERY hard to keep teams in Fast growing diverse Arizona and Atlanta.
The NHL schedule is only 82 games, so 32 teams is more than enough. There is no way, that you could expand beyond 32, without further reducing competition between teams. Would they simply play every opponent 2 times and call it sufficient? Unless you eliminate East vs west matches, there are simply not enough games on the schedule to accommodate a giant league.
Here's how a 34-team league could make an 82-game schedule happen: We'll use the Sharks as an example. They could play three games each against Western Conference teams (48 in all) and two games each against Eastern Conference teams (34 in all). 48 + 34 = 82.
NHL needs the Americans more than Canada. Quebec City and Hamilton metros don't even have 1 million people. Small market Canada teams are already US TV ratings poison in the postseason.
If it's four teams, one will be Quebec. Probably: -Phoenix -Atlanta -Quebec -Houston If only two, I don't see it happening. Probably: -Phoenix -Atlanta or Houston I too would like to see Cincy as well
I could see Mississauga. Mississauga and Brampton (Peel Region) are both top 10 cities in population in Canada and Mississauga considers itself (and is trying to brand itself) as a city in its own right instead of a suburb. I think Downsview Park or Square One could work.
For someone who just likes good hockey and doesn't support any particular team, relocating more teams would keep it interesting. 32 teams is more than enough, keeps the conferences and schedules in check so no need to expand. In addition to draft lottery there should be a relocation lottery every 5 years or so.
I think Houston and Atlanta are slam dunks for expansion - one team in the Western Conference and one team in the Eastern Conference. After that, its a crapshoot. Another team in the East and West would make sense. I imagine Phoenix would be back in play after a few years. Assuming Houston, Atlanta, and Phoenix get teams, a potential team in Indianapolis, San Antonio, Sacramento/Oakland, Charlotte, Quebec City, Cincinnati, Cleveland, New Orleans, Providence, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Toronto (second team), LA (second team), and Kansas City would all face pressure from nearby existing NHL teams to block potential expansion. Thus, I'm not sure there's a good candidate for the 36th team. Omaha is too small of a market and is focused on baseball and football. If I had to choose, I would put my money on Hardford or Quebec City for the 36th team. These four teams would also put one team in each division.
I think Gary Bettman would expand simply to give Phoenix a new team. I think he would go for Houston as well. If they added for teams, he'd also go for Atlanta and maybe Kansas City or Milwaukee, whichever makes less sense.
Toronto makes sense except the most powerful and influential team in the NHL is the Maple Leags and they did not want a team in Hamilton. I suspect one of the teams will be Houston for the West and one in the East. Probably Atlanta ( although Quebec is a much better option). I think the taxes, currency discrepancy, population, players not wanting to play there and French Language probably keeps Quebec City on the outside looking in.
Here are some cities I would love to see get an NHL team after SLC: 1. Houston 2. Atlanta 3. Kansas City 4. Quebec City 5. Cleveland 6. Sacramento 7. Milwaukee 8. Oklahoma City
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Too small, not shrinking but not growing ether 4. Doesn't even have 1 million people in its metro area. 5. Metro losing population 6. Metro area losing population and California doesn't need another team 7. Metro area Losing population 8. Not even in the US's top 30 TV markets or metro areas (they are lucky to even have the NBA) Phoenix: will be in US's top 10 metro areas in population and has a diverse market NHL wants (hence why they tried so hard to keep a team there)
@@marclucas9701 It's flawed though 1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Too small, not shrinking but not growing ether 4. Doesn't even have 1 million people in its metro area. 5. Metro losing population 6. Metro area losing population and California doesn't need another team 7. Metro area Losing population 8. Not even in the US's top 30 TV markets or metro areas (they are lucky to even have the NBA)
Canada overlooked? They were never in the discussion. Salt Lake has that Olympic money coming, the NHL will allow their players to compete, they'll get money thrown at them for an arena, they'll make some money on top of it all. Compete against Arizona for the inevitable expansion team coming back to Phoenix after 2027-28.
For me, it's Cleveland since Rocket Morgage Fieldhouse is NHL ready since the AHL's Monsters gain success by winning the Calder Cup and having an entire hockey history
Columbus has a team. Pittsburgh has a team. The NHL isn't going to put a third team that close. Cleveland has had many failed hockey franchises. Never gonna happen
@Tank4Life the AHL Barons had more success than their NHL counterparts because the NHL Barons were the California Seals, who are now the Dallas Stars since merging with the North Stars in the 70's
Cleveland metro area is LOSING population. Houston Atlanta and Phoenix will all be in the USs top ten metro areas in population. Even if only 20% of those metros care about ice hockey that's STILL more people than Cleveland Milwaukee Quebec City and Hamilton
MLB will expand to 32 teams (Nashville and Salt Lake City). A's: go to Vegas, but if that ballpark doesn't get built, will build a new ballpark with Vivek in Sac and stay there. Rays: Build the new ballpark in St. Pete's or move to Orlando.
Doesn't Chicago have some antiquated right of refusal to block a team coming to Milwaukee and penetrating its market? I feel like that's what's hurt Milwaukee in the past because there's no doubt a hockey team would be great there.
It’s be Atlanta and Phoenix for 33 and 34 if Phoenix wins the auction bid. Otherwise Houston gets Phoenix spot. The last spot could be a Portland, San Diego, Austin, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Cincinnati or Baltimore with Nashville moving to the East if it’s not Indy, Cincy or Baltimore. Also not sure if teams like Winnipeg, Buffalo or Ottawa might be in relocation talk rumors. NHL screwed up getting too many east coast teams and Canadian teams during the 70s and 80s. They even had Detroit and Toronto in the west for a while. 36 teams is too much but can’t ignore the Phoenix, Atlanta and Houston metro since those are all within the top 15 metros in U.S. and Canada.
Dispite eveyone's personal feelings about hockey in Arizona. It worked up until years ago ownership of the team went to crap that forced the Coyotes out of their Glendale Arena. Don't think for a second hockey wont ever work in Arizona again because their is an Arena in Glendale for a new team in the future. Remains to be seen if a new team in Arizona would be able to get the Coyotes name like the Jets were able to get that name back from the Coyotes. So go ahead rename this team (again) the Utah Bee Hives all I care!
I believe that Huston ahould get a Nhl team because they have a High population and they already have an arena,that is if they are willing to build another arena for the Nhl team,But that is my opinion,and I really do wish that either Quebec City or Kansas City,they both have possibilities
Have to imagine that for the Coyote ownership to agree to sell the te so quickly that anew franchise is essentially guaranteed once the secure an arena. While I think that Quebec City or a 2nd team would be very successful, then NHL seems hell bent on “growing the game” in new markets which means that Houston, ATL or San Diego will get priority over any additional franchise in Canada. Don’t agree with that but I’d bet that’s how this will go down.
It is a good thing there are so many great Canadian Hockey players to play in front of indifferent small USA venues. Make sure Mr. Bettman is doing this for Hockey.
Quebec is trying to get the winter olympics and needed the Videotron Centre there groups there with deep pockets but it will be the smallest market in North America and San Diego is even smaller, forget Kanas City the arena makes money without hockey, Atlanta is a bigger market then Chicago and Milwaukee and there is a lot of money there it shouldn't get a team but the NHL needs more US teams to increase their revenues, Houston would be top of that list everything the NHL wants is already to go in Houston
Salt Lake City will be a success. Quebec City is a possibility but you have to consider the $2 billion expansion fee, weak Canadian dollar/economy, and small market. Toronto / Southern Ontario is not going to happen. The Leafs and Sabres both claim that territory and it would require a payout to them for another team to come in. Also MLSE, who owns the Leafs, will fight to the death to block this. It wouldn't hurt the Leafs, but MLSE also owns the Raptors, FC, Marlies and Argos. A second NHL team could hurt those franchises. Atlanta and Houston are HUGE markets and will get a team pending favorable arena situations. If the NHL expands, they'll ultimately want to go to 36 so the divisions are even. Atlantic - Quebec Nordiques Metro - Atlanta Thrashers Central - Houston Aeros Pacific - Arizona Coyotes
Completely disagree about Toronto. A 2nd GTA team is probably more likely than Quebec tbh. Too much money being left on the table to not have a 2nd team there. The BoG will just overrule the Leafs ownership if they really want another team in Toronto
There's no chance this dude calls himself a sports and stadium expert but then thinks that NBA courts and NHL rinks are practically the same size. Dude they're not even close.
Truth be told, Canada IS NOT getting another team. The largest city that could realistically get a team is Quebec City, and they would be the smallest market in the league. Not to mention, CAD isn’t great right now & QC has no corporate presence compared to Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix, Kansas City, Portland, etc.
Then move teams out of those "po-dunk" little cities and send them to major markets of Atlanta and Houston, and/or move one of the New York area teams. They don't need three teams. That region is losing population.
It doesn't fit hockey because of how well it fits basketball. People forget/overlook how many absolute shit seats there are for combo arena's right behind the basketball hoops. There's no incline and everything is pushed back. That's one of the things that makes the seating bowl so great at Jazz games, the fans are on top of the court.
The arena was built years ago and is aging out. If they were to get a team, their arena will be outdated. The reality is that Kansas City just has too many negatives in its way. Only Chiefs attendance is a bright spot.
I'm not personally in favor of any more expansion but if I'm guessing it'll probably be Phoenix and Quebec in 4-5 years and then Atlanta and Houston in 8-10 years.
In that scenario I think Phoenix would get the Coyotes name back and Quebec City would get the Nordiques name back as well. Atlanta would have the Thrashers and for Houston, the best one I think of is Aeros. If they went any other route with Houston the options could be Bats, Bears, Bobcats, Armadillos, Gators, Cougars, Badgers, and Spiders (tarantulas are popular in Texas) but Aeros feels most likely.
A hockey rink and an NBA court are about the same size??? 200x85 is the same as 94x50??? Clearly the ends are a problem in a building not designed for hockey as well. See Barclay's, and the Coyotes first home in Phoenix
Atlanta had garbage ownership if they build the arena in the burbs it will do fine. Houston seems to be on the list since like 30 years ago. Aeros would be cool.
It's not done deal yet. Wouldnt it make sense Jazz and Coyotes get new arena together or whatever they rename them. Delta Center is old outdated. Wouldnt give Toronto second team another situation maybe Winnipeg Jets move to Quebec City and rebrand if continues to go down hill there
This dude thinks that basketball courts and hockey rinks have the same dimensions, and still he considers himself an arena expert
Exactly. Hockey rinks are around 200x85 and NBA courts are 94x50. When the Coyotes came to what was then America West Arena, there were seats where only one end of the rink could be seen. The sight lines sucked ass.
Yeah his take on things is silly
@@seand1011 somebody should inform him about retractable seating
@@seand1011same when the Islanders played at Brooklyn. Barclays wasn’t built to fit a hockey rink properly.
I love how DG's videos jump back and forth on topics reiterating the exact same points over and over until he hits that 10 minute mark lol
The best is when he'll literally say the exact same sentence like 2 or 3 times over the course of a few minutes
The Delta Center was built for basketball because the nearby Maverik Center was built for hockey.
Basically true.
But wasn't there a minor league hockey team who played at the Delta Center as soon as it opened?
@@ecstasycalculusyes the Grizzlies of the IHL relocated from Denver shortly after Colorado brought in the Nordiques out of Quebec. The Utah Grizzlies now play at the Maverik Center and compete in the ECHL (Double-A Hockey a tier below the AHL)
San Diego is interesting. There's virtually no overlap re the schedule vs. the Padres, they just lost their NFL team, Seattle and Vegas are getting the new NBA franchises, but they would need 1) A fully financed new arena. 2) A deep-pocketed owner who wants to own and NHL team and willing to accept yearly losses (money) if it occurs. 3) A demonstration that San Diego sports fans would show up to the games (say a season ticket drive collecting advance deposits).
Midway rising and the city of SD have finished their environmental report. Shovels are going to be going in by the end of the year. There is also 'talk' about the MLS owner of SD FC interested potentially, we shall see. Would be a great prospect, given the long time success of Gulls and the departure of that one, franchise.......
@@vasiliosthomas4883NBA possibly coming there in the near future or pelicans relocating there
The Chargers have been gone for 7 years now
I support MLS going to San Diego and that's all! Hockey will not work there!
@@JiKeeY202 what about basketball 🏀?
@@vasiliosthomas4883 SD FC owner potentially interested in a NBA or NHL team 🤔?
The thing about Québec city is that they used to have a team and nobody except the owner were ready to let it go! Honestly coming from a québecois from Québec city, I don’t want to go to mtl to watch a game! A team in Québec would be great and there is a fan base coming from other places around the city who doesn’t want to drive 3 hours to go to Montreal! Every time there’s a hockey game in the videotron center it’s always full! That goes for minor league and nhl game
Don’t forget Hartford 😉
too small of a market
Quebec City can definitely support a team. If nothing else, a team in Quebec City would let companies in Montreal, that can't get seats there, buy seats in the Videotron Centre. Winnipeg doesn't have a city of 4.3 million people, 2 and a half hours away, wanting tickets and skyboxes. Montreal does that for Quebec City. Just get Bettman out of there. He doesn't understand anything.
@@michaelmagic988 it’s still a hockey city, would be a good cash grab for the NHL and the city wouldn’t let it go it they return.
@@FunnyBone A microscopic TV market and Metropolitan area The team that never sold out and always got outnumbered in their own area by Bruins and Rangers fans?
Houston is doing alot of groundwork. I think they are next up
Agreed 👍
Maybe soon, but last I heard, Arizona was first in line.
Why would Arizona be first in line? If the situation is bad enough for the Coyotees to relocate, why would the NHL be so quick to come back? If the Coyotees can`t make it work, what would be different with an expansion team?
Well, they are the biggest city down there without a team and it would be great to have 2 teams in Texas. Houston and Dallas will be a great rivalry.
@@jtfritz9169
Arizona is not first in line. What was said was that the current Coyotes owner would get the bid for a new expansion team in Phoenix if the NHL decides to come back, which they will, but probably not until the second round around 2029. Atlanta and San Diego will likely get the teams for 2027-2028 because both have arena plans soon to begin construction as well as public support. Houston has some things to work out as they don't have a new arena or plans or even a vested owner. The Rockets owner does not want an NHsl team, nor does he want to share the arena with an NHL team. Phoenix has no current backing, huge obstacles having to do with infrastructure laying, as well as public opposition, but I think all these issues will be resolved in the next couple years and that Houston and Phoenix will become the 35th and 36th teams by 2029-2030.
The NHL is not going to Quebec City because of the Canadian dollar and small market. They are not going to Hamilton because of the Canadian dollar and small market, as well as opposition from Toronto and Buffalo. They likely won't go to KC considering their attendance issues in the ECHL or their small market size, not to mention the poor attendance of the Royals. Much the same could be said Cincinnati. The league is not going to Milwaukee because of the small market size and competition with the Bucks, not to mention Chicago Blackhawks owner against it.
This, these four are your likely choices. Atlanta, Houston, Phoenix, San Diego.
You always say that hockey rinks and basketball courts are practically the same size. They’re not. Hockey rinks are double the length at 200 feet and significantly wider at 85 feet plus benches and penalty boxes.
This is the reason why you hate college hoops played in NBA arenas. Most of them are also hockey and so the actual stands are set way farther off the court. The first 5-10 rows are pretty flat before you reach the permanent seats in the bowl.
Many such cases. Barclay's Center was built to NBA specs exactly for this reason.
@@segasys1339 Exactly. The hockey setup was terrible and they broke a 25 year lease after 3 years to go back to their old place, which was basically the hockey equivalent of Tropicana Field.
Houston / Dallas rivalry would be good
I'm thinking outside the box... Anchorage , Alaska!
A Microscopic metropolitan area and TV market. Once again Ice Hockey fans prove they are the most delusional on why sports teams are located where they are
@@HoshizakiYoshimasa ok...how about Honolulu, Hawaii.
1 Million people live on Oahu.
Omaha would get a team before either of those
Nah guys, Mexico City. That’s the ticket! 🔥
@@PapaT79 now we're talking!
The Delta Center was built totally with basketball in mind with some ability to host a hockey team, but it doesn't configure well with hockey, so a new arena is needed, although Canada is more passionate about hockey, very few large market areas and lack of population in Canada doesn't draw the money like US cities so a better bet for NHL expansion in the United States.
Ice Hockey fans are the most delusional on why teams are located where they are
It's about selling hats. It's about corporate sponsorships. TV ratings. Long term population and demographics trends for a market
It's why the Dakotas don't have a team.
Bigger metro areas = more potential customers.
It's why NHL tried hard to stay in Atlanta and only begrudgingly moved them. Its why they tried hard to keep a team in AZ
Exactly lmao this is why Hamilton Canada or QBC aren’t chosen. Bc much larger US markets like Houston and ATL don’t have teams
@@maddrone7814 That and the fact that the Canadian dollar is weaker than the American dollar
The Delta centre was purpose built for basketball. Same with the Barclays centre it didn’t work well for The Islanders.
But the Delta centre is a definite upgrade from Mullet arena.
The intent is for it to be temporary. Unlike Arizona, their arena plans will go through. The city has set aside $900M for a new hockey arena & they will be hosting the Winter Olympics again within the next 10 years and need a new arena.
As a Coyotes fan, I am not against bringing this team back via expansion. It will be nice for this team to have a fresh start. All of the hate this team got, all of the years of being called “poverty franchise”. I’m ok with hitting the reset button with this team. Plus, it’s not a guarantee that the current team will do well in Salt Lake City. They have good prospects, but it doesn’t guarantee a dynasty. Look at the Chicago White Sox. Everyone thought they’d be the next best dynasty, but that rebuild was unsuccessful
And it’s no guarantee that an expansion team in Arizona will do well either.
@@Carrollavirusit’s not, but considering how good expansion teams in the NHL have done in the past, it’s very possible. But rn we just need to get our team back. That’s my number 1 focus
The league had to own the Coyotes for some time to prevent them from ceasing operation if anything what has happened with them moving to Salt Lake City it was a walking corpse finally put out of its misery
Honestly hockey has no place in Arizona. Like Oakland, y’all don’t know what you have until you don’t
I believe Bettman still doesn't want to give up the (large) Phoenix market. I think if a new arena is built, Arizona will get an expansion franchise as I think the NHL will eventually move to 36 teams.
Personally, I don’t think we need more than 32 teams in any of the 4 major sports leagues. If you do, you not only risk diluting the talent pool in each league, but you also mess up the balance of each league. Not to mention you make life a living hell for the schedule makers, whose jobs are always under-appreciated.
Houston and Atlanta are North America's #7 and #8 largest media markets, respectively. Although a downtown NHL venue in Houston would work, Atlanta's plan for a suburban destination (Alpharetta - near the Atlanta Braves stadium district) might be the secret sauce given that the NHL in downtown Atlanta hasn't worked. If I had to guess, the Winnipeg Jets are likely headed to Houston. A second team in the Toronto Area seems unlikely, especially with the Buffalo Sabres - needing a new arena in their own right - anchoring the Golden Horseshoe megaregion.
Winnipeg has low attendance numbers because it has a small capacity. The percentage of seats sold is in line with other large US markets.
No it has low attendance because people are not showing up and the jets are good imagine how bad it would be if they were bad
Tucson Roadrunner could be approved as an NHL Expansion team
How about the Wiley Coyote Roadrunners.
Get a NHL team in Des Moines. Time for the Iowa Superhogs to have an expansion team!!
Too small of a metropolitan area and TV market
You keep saying Houston doesn't excite you ,but do your research. Houston has the second most fortune 500 companies behind New York city.There is alot of corporate money there and Houston is about to pass Chicago as 3rd largest city in the USA.
Why couldn’t they play in the Maverick Center in West Valley City, Utah temporarily until the new arena is ready?
NHL will keep adding teams in USA . Adding all these teams in the south and west has helped ratings. Still has a way to go. Adding up in Canada makes no sense. Winnipeg has a good team and terrible attendance. They will be lucky if they can keep the team there. Canada is at their limit and may be losing the Jets shortly. They add nothing to the ratings in USA.
Having warm weather teams like the Lightning and Golden Knights having consistent success like they both are only helps the cause for expansion to be more focused in the US as the narrative of “warm weather teams can’t succeed” vanishes.
NHL and all the other sports leagues study population and demographics forecasts for metro areas. Canada isn't growing outside of Toronto Montreal or Vancouver. US is booming in population. Canada's economy is weaker. NHL knows Canada people will still watch ice hockey even if their market doesn't have a team. NHL knows they need the USA more than they need Canada.
Jets can move to San Diego if they have the opportunity to do so in all
The original success of the Quebec Nordics was due to the team stocking their roster with French Canadian players who the fans loved that’s something’ that will be hard to do in this era
They're not going to another Canadian market. 1. It doesn't grow hockey as everyone in Canada that is going to like hockey already does. 2. The exchange rate now is worse than when Winnipeg and Quebec moved in the 90's. 3. Quebec will be the #1 team on no trade lists as they can be openly hostile to non-french speakers. 4. Toronto and Buffalo will fight to prevent another team in southern Ontario. 5. Hockey is the most gate revenue-dependent sport and Quebec was trying to out-california California when it came to COVID lockdowns. nordiques 2.0 would be cool but they're going to be priced out in expansion fees or buying a team and relocation fees.
Agreed with everything. Winnipeg has attendance issues and Ottawa still hasn’t officially secured an arena even Buffalo might have issues with Pegula dissolving PSE but assume they stay they’ll pick Atlanta and Phoenix under the condition they win the auction. If not, Houston likely takes it. Also Canada economy is doing poorly thanks to Justin Castro Jr lol
Atlanta, Quebec City, Hartford, Kansas City, and other cities that had NHL franchises before losing them to relocation need to have their teams back.
As a lifelong whalers fan I firmly agree with this!
Hartford won't happen. The NHL doesn't have an interest in Connecticut with the Bruins, Rangers and Islanders so close by. They'd prefer to expand in larger markets like Atlanta, Houston and back in Arizona.
@@robynryan7473Just so Hartford gets out numbered in their own city by Bruins and Rangers fans whenever they play those teams? Just like back in the 90s? Too small of a metropolitan area/TV market. And it's losing population too
I know. It hurts and as a whalers fan I've learned to accept we may never have a hockey team again. But for the time being it was special. I still wear my whalers stuff all the time.
@@FAITHandLOGICExactly. Ice Hockey fans are the most delusional on why sports teams are where they are. It's about TV market size and metropolitan area population
The good thing with Toronto 2 is you have 2 potential spots either going down to highway 401 to Kitchener where you supersize the 12k new auditorium or down the qew in Hamilton where they have the first Ontario centre renovation sharing the rink with the Toronto Rock😊
With all do respect, no effing way should Toronto get a second team! Jesus, they can’t even win a Stanley Cup with their current franchise! It’s been what 57 years. there is no way that Mapleleaf fans would root for a second team in the city, it’s ludicrous! If you want to put one in Hamilton or Quebec City or somewhere else in that area, if it meant that they are getting a franchise in Canada somewhere, then, yes, I would agree with Hamilton or Quebec City. However, as quite a few people have pointed out in the comments here, the American dollar is more than the Canadian dollar, and the NHL probably doesn’t want to touch Canada anytime soon, which is why if they expand, it will be in the United States, or should be.
There was a reason Atlanta didn’t work out and it had nothing to do with fan attendance. Please do the research
Agreed. I am sick of these same tired arguments with people remaining ignorant to what happened in Atlanta. I do my best on here to reveal the facts, but many people disregard the truth.
The reality is that many don't like Atlanta because deep-down they know that Atlanta is a huge city and that it is a legitimate threat to them getting a team in their small northern cities.
No one I know believes it was fan attendance. People who know anything about the Thrashers knew that similarly to the Coyotes, the ownership group doesn't know how to run a hockey team and the League did the same thing and didn't step in when the writing was on the wall.
This gentleman just cranks out poorly researched content.
the huge population boom due to a lot of northern transplants should help atlanta's case in getting a new team. all we really need is a serious ownership group
Both teams, if I'm not mistaken, had their leases yanked. The Thrashers seemingly out of spite from the Spirit Group.
I could see the Anaheim Ducks moving to San Diego in the future. Rumors of Angels relocating and the Honda center is really old as well. The Ducks minor league team is the San Diego Gulls.
The only way San Diego should see an NHL team ... I don't think it'll work there regardless
The Angels are not leaving Southern California
@michaelleroy9281 one of my good friends that works for the Angels and lives in Tustin told me within the organization it has been talked about if things don't go a certain way on the future.
@@JiKeeY202Stan Kroenke has put money behind a new arena and development in San Diego where the current Pechanga arena sits and the San Diego Gulls play. It just cleared environmental report and shovels will be in the ground soon. The Gulls draw well in San Diego and Amaheim isn't going to be building a new Arena to replace the Honda Center.
5-7k attendance isn't
17,000 42 nights a year
In the next few years I see the NHL growing to 36 bringing in Portland Oregon, Houston Texas, Kansas City Missouri and Atlanta Georgia as well as going back to the three divisions per conference format and 1-8 playoff format
Portland is a great location. Great 3 way rivalries with vancouver and seattle
lol 36
@@segasys1339 league is already watered down at 32
Could happen.
@@viccolantonio1691 I agree. Too many teams waters down your product.
Unlike the current 30 teams in the NBA & MLB, the IDEAL number for teams per league imo is 32 like the current NFL & NHL formats. This EXACT number will prevent talent dilution and hence maintain overall quality of play per league. There should never be more than 32 teams with expansion to a new city occurring only as a result of a failing franchise...
Also billionaire Rams,Nuggets,Avs owner Stan Kroenke is the money behind the new San Diego arena development as well just some food for thought.
Confident that an NBA team comes there too. Pelicans can possibly relocate there too depends on the stadium situation.
An NHL rink is 200’x85’ a basketball court is 94’x50’, so about 1/4 the size. Pretty much identical.
Hahah yea that was a weird statement
With fuzzy math, then yes
I don't know where all those seats went. The playing area is pretty much identical....
First clue punches you in the face? Ignore it. Run with it anyway and immortalize it.
I'll give you a wild card that probably won't happen, but might be fun to think about. The NHL admits the AHL Chicago Wolves into the league. The team is independently owned and is not currently affiliated with an NHL team. They play in an arena that seats 17,000. Believe it or not, they have a decently sized group of fans who dislike the Blackhawks. When the Blackhawks were horrible to watch in the late 90s and early 00s, the Wolves gained a lot of support and validity as a Chicago sports team by winning 4 IHL/AHL championships. So I think it's viable. The only way I see the NHL wanting to do it is if they want to expand to 36 and only have 3 viable expansion candidates in new markets. The Wolves would be a quick fix.
If they expand they should do 40, but take their time to get the right cities. I say if they expand they should expand into the western US. Portland and SF/Oakland teams, Milwaukee, Houston.
Phoenix metro area is country's 11th largest. They just need a new hockey only arena. Minnesota Wild did this in the twin cities area. Minneapolis and the timberwolves have the target center and st. paul has xcel energy arena and the Wild. With a better owner than this one who will actually pay the rent and other costs to the city , the hockey team will succeed there.
Toronto and Buffalo are connected by a 100 mile highway. There has been talk of locating a second Toronto team in the city of Hamilton, Ontario which is smack in the middle of that 100 mile stretch.. There is certainly is the population (the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) is over 7 million) but I don't see the NHL having 3 franchises lined up on a 100 mile stretch of highway.
Islanders, Rangers, Devils? ...but Toronto would throw a fit with a 2nd team in the city or with neighbors, and then add Buffalo to that since they draw a huge number of Canadians to games.
With the NHL pulling out of Phoenix, they only have a presence in 5 of the 10 largest cities in the US, 8 of 10 by tv market. I think they financially have to go to Houston.
People overlook this. The NHL can't afford another Canadian team.
Atlanta, Houston, and Phoenix are on deck. Phoenix would be contingent on Coyotes' ownership securing a stadium site. If they do get a site this year, we would probably be looking at Phoenix and Atlanta for 2027 or 2028.
Houston will be the go-to relocation threat for teams like Winnipeg.
@@vamoscrucerosExcept for the fact that they can afford another Canadian team. If they support and own a trash franchise like Arizona and keep bailing them out they can have another Canadian team.
@@vamoscruceros
Except they could afford another Canadian team, just one though
And I hope the expansion won't be in Phoenix and Atlanta for some time too
Other cities might be in front of them like Houston, also KC have some unused arena though, that should be considered too
And if the rumours about having 4 expansions are true that leaves one more city, maybe either Portland or Hartford is good
Houston financially as well has second most fortune 500 companies behind New York City that's alot of corporate money also Houston tv market is big. Houston is about to pass Chicago for 3rd largest city in the USA.
@@alexwinter3272 You are So Delusional. Even if only 20% of Houston Atlanta and Arizona care about hockey that's still MORE people than in all of Manitoba, Nova Scotia, Quebec City metropolitan areas. More people equals more potential customers. Small market Canada is a burden (The US teams had to bail out all the small market Canada teams back in the 00s)
Small Canada doesn't have number of people, the corporate sponsorship base, or the TV market size.
Why would the Delta center be configured for hockey when it was built , when they didn’t have a team ?please enlighten me
They hosted events there for the Winter Olympics
Atlanta has already failed twice. It getting another NHL team is DOA.
No it's not. NHL desperately tried to keep a team there and only begrudgingly let them go to small market Winnipeg. Atlanta Houston and Phoenix will all be in the US's top ten metro areas. They are too big of market to ignore now. Even if only 20% of those metros care about ice hockey that's STILL more people than in all of Manitoba and Quebec City's metros
@@HoshizakiYoshimasa Even if only "20%" of those transplant-metros "support" the team, if the arenas aren't full, then none of that matters. Atlanta lost both of its teams to small markets in Canada. Quality > Quantity
Expansion will be 2 teams. East and west. NHL only wants even number of teams in each conference.
Haven’t watched a game since the expansion draft rules change in 2017 and most likely never will.
Another possibility I think that was ignored was Phoenix getting the new expansion if construction of the new arena was approved
It shouldn't be in consideration for expansion
Maybe before relocation down the line.. they had their shop for 25 years and blew it
32 to 36 teams: Expansion stage 1: Atlanta (East) and Phoenix (West) provided a new arena is built in Arizona (I'm convinced Bettman still wants a team in that market). Expansion stage 2: Houston (West) and another team in the East. Only problem: Which city in the eastern USA would support one long term? I don't think there is one, so Bettman may be forced to give Quebec City a team (modern arena already built with Quebecor as owner).
It’s likely that the 36th team could be another west team and Nashville moves to the East. Assuming there is no more relocation rumors as well.
Coyotes deal included first right of refusal within 5 years if arena is built to bring nhl back to AZ…with AM’s $700mil profit from the sale, he will win the north phx property bid and build out his sports district…hockey will be back in AZ in 5 years or less.
Winnipeg has sold out 9 games since Christmas and are running at 97% capacity since the new year. Plus now they have sold out playoff games to add to revenue. The jets on Monday spent 680 million buying and renovating the mall next to MTS centre. I don’t think they would be spending 3 quarters of billion on portage place mall if they were broke. Plus David thomson is the richest owner in the NHL. The jets are fine.
Winnipeg shouldnt worry either. The arena only holds max of15,000 and the smallest in the league. They will always be last in attendance even if they sell out 97% of their games
you know Quebec province go watch Quebec nordiques game if they return . And the Québec province are the second most populated province in Canada. We want the rivival of the most intence rivality in the NHL history between Montreal vs Quebec City. Now the arena are there, the buyers are there , the governement want the team and the populations of Quebec province want the team. But NHL only thinking USA market and alots of Canadians are very frustrated against the NHL now.
we Leaf fans would love to renew the rivalry - plus they had great jerseys!
NHL CORRECTLY understands it needs the Americans more than they need Canada. Quebec City metropolitan area doesn't even have 1 million people. Ice hockey may be Canada's game, but NHL needs America's MUCH larger and more diverse population and more wealth.
Canada is a vassal state for the US empire. NHL knows this. Even if only 20% of Houston Atlanta and Phoenix metro areas care about ice hockey that's STILL more people than in all of Quebec City's and Hamilton's metros.
Besides the Small market Canada teams are US TV ratings poison in the postseason already
@@HoshizakiYoshimasa but you dont understand its not the Quebec City metropolitan you have to look but all the province of Quebec who are the second most populated in Canada. Its people from all corner of the province who go watch Nordiques play. I know that, i live 2 hours from Quebec city and in the 80's and 90's i go watch approximatively 10 to 20 games . alots of peoples from Montreal go watch the Nordiques games. You know in the end of the 80's and the start of the 90's Québec Nordiques finish last in the rankings but the arena are full each games. here its real hockey fans, not like in USA who like shitty sports like american football, basketball and baseball before hockey.
A second team in Toronto is silly. Toronto is nowhere close to the size of NYC or LA.
I really hope the NHL does not expand. Expanding to 32 teams has already diluted the talent by quite a bit. But Bettman and NHL owners are greedy so I have no doubt it will happen.
San Diego getting an NHL team would be nice since they’ll be rejuvenated as a sports city since they lost the Chargers.
P.S.: I sincerely hope that an NBA team comes to San Diego as a basketball fan
Yeah you should definitely get an NBA team. There should be more teams on the west coast. If the Boston to DC corridor can support five or six teams - Boston, 2 or 3 NY, Philly, Baltimore and Washington - then the same should be true for California. You have that in baseball but not anywhere else. Is an arena being built there?
Don’t forget SAN Diego joining the MLS next season
@@-TurboS oh definitely this is a good start
If they expanded the NHL, they might as well go to 36 teams so divisions can be more even than they are right now, basically things being more spread out than its current format. I think the 4 most likely cities involved would be Houston, Kansas City, Atlanta, and Quebec City. The last one could be replaced with Phoenix if somehow they got something situated after the Coyotes left for Salt Lake City. Here would be potential names for the 4 cities I mentioned:
Houston Aeros
Kansas City Bats (they’re popular animals in the area)
Atlanta Thrashers
Quebec City Nordiques
If Phoenix gets the bid over Quebec City then they can go back to Coyotes. Kansas City could go with Raccoons, Boars, Mules, and Armadillos as well. With mules that is the Missouri state animal so it could be a possibility.
As someone who lives in Cincinnati, has played hockey all his life, I can tell you there isn't enough interest in Hockey for it to flourish here.
Expansion already being discussed for AZ. Strange times
So it means that Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix, San Diego are getting a NHL team right
I mean i would love to see Canada get another team, we just don’t have the population and market size (a low dollar doesn’t help either) to support another team currently. Maybe when the NHL gets a new commissioner something will change but i highly doubt it
Leafs play in the heart of downtown Toronto (southern part of the city) right by Lake Ontario. A team with an arena in the northern part of Metro Toronto (Markham / Richmond Hill / Vaughn) would probably do well provided the Leafs are OK with it, which they may not be.
there has been talk of Hamilton, which is only 40 minutes from downtown Toronto (GTA) and is right in the middle of the 100 miles of highway separating the Buffalo Sabres and the Toronto Maple Leafs. 3 NHL franchises within 100 miles? Somehow I doubt it.
32 is the perfect symmetry number and each new team lowers the chances of championships for the rest but whatever. Houston Arizona and Atlanta for sure given how each Metro will be in the US's top 10 Metropolitan areas in population soon. And the fact NHL tried VERY hard to keep teams in Fast growing diverse Arizona and Atlanta.
The NHL schedule is only 82 games, so 32 teams is more than enough. There is no way, that you could expand beyond 32, without further reducing competition between teams. Would they simply play every opponent 2 times and call it sufficient? Unless you eliminate East vs west matches, there are simply not enough games on the schedule to accommodate a giant league.
Increase the schedule to 84, there's been talk of that before
Here's how a 34-team league could make an 82-game schedule happen:
We'll use the Sharks as an example. They could play three games each against Western Conference teams (48 in all) and two games each against Eastern Conference teams (34 in all). 48 + 34 = 82.
@@seand1011even if the math works it doesn't mean it's a good idea
NHL needs to expand to Canada and Hamilton has the Coops Coliseum being renovated
NHL needs the Americans more than Canada. Quebec City and Hamilton metros don't even have 1 million people. Small market Canada teams are already US TV ratings poison in the postseason.
Even if only 20% of Houston Atlanta and Phoenix metro areas care about ice hockey that's still MORE people than all of Hamilton and Quebec City metros
If it's four teams, one will be Quebec. Probably:
-Phoenix
-Atlanta
-Quebec
-Houston
If only two, I don't see it happening. Probably:
-Phoenix
-Atlanta or Houston
I too would like to see Cincy as well
San Diego?
Hamilton would work right now..but..The Leafs aren't the problem..it's Buffalo...
I could see Mississauga. Mississauga and Brampton (Peel Region) are both top 10 cities in population in Canada and Mississauga considers itself (and is trying to brand itself) as a city in its own right instead of a suburb. I think Downsview Park or Square One could work.
For someone who just likes good hockey and doesn't support any particular team, relocating more teams would keep it interesting. 32 teams is more than enough, keeps the conferences and schedules in check so no need to expand. In addition to draft lottery there should be a relocation lottery every 5 years or so.
As a habs fan Quebec need a team back
Living in the past? this is 2024 not 1984
I think Houston and Atlanta are slam dunks for expansion - one team in the Western Conference and one team in the Eastern Conference.
After that, its a crapshoot. Another team in the East and West would make sense. I imagine Phoenix would be back in play after a few years.
Assuming Houston, Atlanta, and Phoenix get teams, a potential team in Indianapolis, San Antonio, Sacramento/Oakland, Charlotte, Quebec City, Cincinnati, Cleveland, New Orleans, Providence, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Toronto (second team), LA (second team), and Kansas City would all face pressure from nearby existing NHL teams to block potential expansion. Thus, I'm not sure there's a good candidate for the 36th team. Omaha is too small of a market and is focused on baseball and football.
If I had to choose, I would put my money on Hardford or Quebec City for the 36th team. These four teams would also put one team in each division.
San Diego is being overloaded big time
@@dreamcage1801 I don't know much about San Diego. Would they support a NHL team?
I sure as hell would support an NHL team in Cincinnati. Would love to see it but it’s a pipe dream.
Hb a team in Alaska
anchorage and fairbanks are decently large
Too far of travel and would already be the smallest markets
If im the NHL they dont return to Arizona until it gets a new owner. Evrrything ive heard about him says hes a clown
I think Gary Bettman would expand simply to give Phoenix a new team. I think he would go for Houston as well. If they added for teams, he'd also go for Atlanta and maybe Kansas City or Milwaukee, whichever makes less sense.
Unfortunately Canada, outside of Toronto, doesn’t draw big crowds and not none Canadian team has won shit in how long now?
Toronto makes sense except the most powerful and influential team in the NHL is the Maple Leags and they did not want a team in Hamilton. I suspect one of the teams will be Houston for the West and one in the East. Probably Atlanta ( although Quebec is a much better option). I think the taxes, currency discrepancy, population, players not wanting to play there and French Language probably keeps Quebec City on the outside looking in.
Here are some cities I would love to see get an NHL team after SLC:
1. Houston
2. Atlanta
3. Kansas City
4. Quebec City
5. Cleveland
6. Sacramento
7. Milwaukee
8. Oklahoma City
Like that list
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Too small, not shrinking but not growing ether
4. Doesn't even have 1 million people in its metro area.
5. Metro losing population
6. Metro area losing population and California doesn't need another team
7. Metro area Losing population
8. Not even in the US's top 30 TV markets or metro areas (they are lucky to even have the NBA)
Phoenix: will be in US's top 10 metro areas in population and has a diverse market NHL wants (hence why they tried so hard to keep a team there)
@@marclucas9701
It's flawed though
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Too small, not shrinking but not growing ether
4. Doesn't even have 1 million people in its metro area.
5. Metro losing population
6. Metro area losing population and California doesn't need another team
7. Metro area Losing population
8. Not even in the US's top 30 TV markets or metro areas (they are lucky to even have the NBA)
None of the above 32 teams is enough don't fix what isn't broken
I think in 10 years we will have Arizona, Atlanta, Houston, and Quebec City/second Toronto as Expansion teams to bring it to 36
Canada overlooked? They were never in the discussion. Salt Lake has that Olympic money coming, the NHL will allow their players to compete, they'll get money thrown at them for an arena, they'll make some money on top of it all. Compete against Arizona for the inevitable expansion team coming back to Phoenix after 2027-28.
as a long time Bruins fan,Id love to see the Whalers back
This is 2024 , not 1984 too many people are living in the past with this bring back the Whalers , same thing with Nordiques
A hockey rink is the same size as a basketball court?
Hell no
Not even close
For me, it's Cleveland since Rocket Morgage Fieldhouse is NHL ready since the AHL's Monsters gain success by winning the Calder Cup and having an entire hockey history
Columbus has a team. Pittsburgh has a team. The NHL isn't going to put a third team that close. Cleveland has had many failed hockey franchises. Never gonna happen
@Tank4Life the AHL Barons had more success than their NHL counterparts because the NHL Barons were the California Seals, who are now the Dallas Stars since merging with the North Stars in the 70's
Cleveland metro area is LOSING population.
Houston Atlanta and Phoenix will all be in the USs top ten metro areas in population. Even if only 20% of those metros care about ice hockey that's STILL more people than Cleveland Milwaukee Quebec City and Hamilton
MLB will expand to 32 teams (Nashville and Salt Lake City). A's: go to Vegas, but if that ballpark doesn't get built, will build a new ballpark with Vivek in Sac and stay there. Rays: Build the new ballpark in St. Pete's or move to Orlando.
A hockey rink and nba courts are NOT practically the same size
Milwaukee WI when? Fiserv Forum is hockey ready
Doesn't Chicago have some antiquated right of refusal to block a team coming to Milwaukee and penetrating its market? I feel like that's what's hurt Milwaukee in the past because there's no doubt a hockey team would be great there.
@@steves9964 I think this right is extended to every team in the league but I can’t remember if it has ever been invoked
My thing is, last year you were all for Houston getting a hockey team last year. Now all of a sudden you’re against it. Make your mind up dude
It’s be Atlanta and Phoenix for 33 and 34 if Phoenix wins the auction bid. Otherwise Houston gets Phoenix spot. The last spot could be a Portland, San Diego, Austin, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Cincinnati or Baltimore with Nashville moving to the East if it’s not Indy, Cincy or Baltimore. Also not sure if teams like Winnipeg, Buffalo or Ottawa might be in relocation talk rumors. NHL screwed up getting too many east coast teams and Canadian teams during the 70s and 80s. They even had Detroit and Toronto in the west for a while. 36 teams is too much but can’t ignore the Phoenix, Atlanta and Houston metro since those are all within the top 15 metros in U.S. and Canada.
Dispite eveyone's personal feelings about hockey in Arizona. It worked up until years ago ownership of the team went to crap that forced the Coyotes out of their Glendale Arena. Don't think for a second hockey wont ever work in Arizona again because their is an Arena in Glendale for a new team in the future. Remains to be seen if a new team in Arizona would be able to get the Coyotes name like the Jets were able to get that name back from the Coyotes. So go ahead rename this team (again) the Utah Bee Hives all I care!
LMAO it never worked. There were problems from day 1.
I believe that Huston ahould get a Nhl team because they have a High population and they already have an arena,that is if they are willing to build another arena for the Nhl team,But that is my opinion,and I really do wish that either Quebec City or Kansas City,they both have possibilities
Huston?
Toronto doesn't have another arena for another hockey team
Have to imagine that for the Coyote ownership to agree to sell the te so quickly that anew franchise is essentially guaranteed once the secure an arena.
While I think that Quebec City or a 2nd team would be very successful, then NHL seems hell bent on “growing the game” in new markets which means that Houston, ATL or San Diego will get priority over any additional franchise in Canada.
Don’t agree with that but I’d bet that’s how this will go down.
It is a good thing there are so many great Canadian Hockey players to play in front of indifferent small USA venues. Make sure Mr. Bettman is doing this for Hockey.
Not sure where the logic is for expansion after a team moves, don't think they'll do that for a while
Quebec is trying to get the winter olympics and needed the Videotron Centre there groups there with deep pockets but it will be the smallest market in North America and San Diego is even smaller, forget Kanas City the arena makes money without hockey, Atlanta is a bigger market then Chicago and Milwaukee and there is a lot of money there it shouldn't get a team but the NHL needs more US teams to increase their revenues, Houston would be top of that list everything the NHL wants is already to go in Houston
Salt Lake City will be a success.
Quebec City is a possibility but you have to consider the $2 billion expansion fee, weak Canadian dollar/economy, and small market.
Toronto / Southern Ontario is not going to happen. The Leafs and Sabres both claim that territory and it would require a payout to them for another team to come in. Also MLSE, who owns the Leafs, will fight to the death to block this. It wouldn't hurt the Leafs, but MLSE also owns the Raptors, FC, Marlies and Argos. A second NHL team could hurt those franchises.
Atlanta and Houston are HUGE markets and will get a team pending favorable arena situations.
If the NHL expands, they'll ultimately want to go to 36 so the divisions are even.
Atlantic - Quebec Nordiques
Metro - Atlanta Thrashers
Central - Houston Aeros
Pacific - Arizona Coyotes
There WILL be another team in Southern Ontario. There's too much money for it (even having to pay the territorial rights fees).
Completely disagree about Toronto. A 2nd GTA team is probably more likely than Quebec tbh. Too much money being left on the table to not have a 2nd team there. The BoG will just overrule the Leafs ownership if they really want another team in Toronto
New York has the Rangers, Islanders, and Devils in the NHL. Not Giants and Jets.
San Diego is a no brainer
Hell yeah because they’re desperate for more pro sports teams since they loss the Chargers
There's no chance this dude calls himself a sports and stadium expert but then thinks that NBA courts and NHL rinks are practically the same size. Dude they're not even close.
Toronto already has a second team they are called the Sabres.
Truth be told, Canada IS NOT getting another team. The largest city that could realistically get a team is Quebec City, and they would be the smallest market in the league. Not to mention, CAD isn’t great right now & QC has no corporate presence compared to Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix, Kansas City, Portland, etc.
Utah Grizzlies will happen. If there is an expansion id wait a decade or two. 32 is just right.
Then move teams out of those "po-dunk" little cities and send them to major markets of Atlanta and Houston, and/or move one of the New York area teams. They don't need three teams. That region is losing population.
It doesn't fit hockey because of how well it fits basketball. People forget/overlook how many absolute shit seats there are for combo arena's right behind the basketball hoops. There's no incline and everything is pushed back. That's one of the things that makes the seating bowl so great at Jazz games, the fans are on top of the court.
If Kansas City currently has an NHL ready arena, why should the Chiefs/Royals situation have any bearing on them getting a hockey franchise?
The arena was built years ago and is aging out. If they were to get a team, their arena will be outdated.
The reality is that Kansas City just has too many negatives in its way. Only Chiefs attendance is a bright spot.
Iqaluit will be next up
I'm not personally in favor of any more expansion but if I'm guessing it'll probably be Phoenix and Quebec in 4-5 years and then Atlanta and Houston in 8-10 years.
Most likely it will be Atlanta and San Diego within three or four years, and Houston and Phoenix within 5-6 years.
In that scenario I think Phoenix would get the Coyotes name back and Quebec City would get the Nordiques name back as well. Atlanta would have the Thrashers and for Houston, the best one I think of is Aeros. If they went any other route with Houston the options could be Bats, Bears, Bobcats, Armadillos, Gators, Cougars, Badgers, and Spiders (tarantulas are popular in Texas) but Aeros feels most likely.
NHL should NOT explore Arizona again even if a new arena is built. There must be at least 10 cities more deserving especially in Canada.
Hamilton and a second Toronto team would make sense, but the Sabres AND Leafs stood in the way of the Coyotes attempted relocation to Hamilton.
A hockey rink and an NBA court are about the same size??? 200x85 is the same as 94x50??? Clearly the ends are a problem in a building not designed for hockey as well. See Barclay's, and the Coyotes first home in Phoenix
Atlanta had garbage ownership if they build the arena in the burbs it will do fine. Houston seems to be on the list since like 30 years ago. Aeros would be cool.
It's not done deal yet. Wouldnt it make sense Jazz and Coyotes get new arena together or whatever they rename them. Delta Center is old outdated. Wouldnt give Toronto second team another situation maybe Winnipeg Jets move to Quebec City and rebrand if continues to go down hill there