Why does everyone love Stannis Baratheon?
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- čas přidán 14. 05. 2024
- Hello everyone! Today I'm going over one reason of MANY as to why I think everyone loves Stannis in #asongoficeandfire. What do you think? Is there anything I missed? What do you think of #houseofthedragon so far? Be sure to leave a comment, as well as like the video and subscribe if you enjoy. More #asoiaf content is on the way!
Thank you all for watching! This was a bit more laid back than my usual faire, but I had this thought and wanted to share this. I'll be back with more theories next week! Art in this video is by TheMico!
My Twitter: / quinnthegm
00:00 Opinions and ASOIAF
00:35 Why is Stannis so Beloved?
01:05 Ned Stark's Narrative Role
02:33 Lingering Loss
02:57 Picking Up the Torch
04:02 Character Parallels
06:00 Relationships to Jon
06:52 Stannis as a Replacement for Ned
07:13 Outro - Zábava
“Robert could piss in a cup and men will call it wine but I offer them pure cold water and they squint in suspicion and mutter to eachother about how queer it tastes”
"If they said I magicked myself in the boar to kill Robert, likely they would believe that as well."
@@mixkid3362 “I have no doubt that Cersei had a hand in Roberts’s death. I will have justice for him, aye, and for Ned Stark and Jon Arryn as well”
@@ricodan7617 "And.. for Renly. I dream of it sometimes, of Renlys dying. A green tent, a woman screaming.. and blood."
@@mixkid3362 “I was still abed when he died. Your Devyn will tell you. He tried to wake me. Dawn was neigh and my Lords were waiting, fretting. I should’ve been ahorse, armoured. I knew Renly would attack at break of day. Devyn said I thrashed and cried out but what did it matter. It was a dream. I was in my tent when Renly died. And when I woke, my hands were clean”.
@@ricodan7617 "He offered me a peach at our parley. Mocked me, defied me, threatened me. And offered me a peach."
“You like Stannis because you feel abandoned by Ned”
I think you just made me realize what it’s like to be a girl with daddy issues.
Stannis also has the funniest, most savage lines in the books.
"Her own father sired this child on her? I will not suffer such abominations here. This is not King's landing."
Renly: I will have you know that [Maergerie] came to me a maid.
Stannis: In your bed she'll die that way.
Stannis must have so much pent-up seethe over his time in King's Landing lmao
@@Vmac1394 damn 😭
@@Vmac1394 the ham line is literaly better than that. Its just a jab at him being gay and its not clever.
Its the same as saying "ur a virgin lol" what a great roast.
@@andreassveen8689 context matters, it isnt just a jab at him being gay but a complete judo throw reversal of renlys statement, BIG difference. Yes it is clever because it is a perfectly laconic response that would make spartans approve and completely undermines his opponents brag, you cant ask for a better reply, just the gay implication really seems to bother you for..reasons?
Regardless its not the same as someone just blurting out “ur a virgin lol” randomly with no prior setup.
"Who better to command the black cloaks than a man who once commanded the gold, sire?"
"Any of you, I would think. Even the cook."
Who has a better story then Bran...
Stannis: Any of you I should think. Even the cook.
Honestly I would take 3 finger hobb over Janos
@@georgeprchal3924 Hotpie has a MUCH better story than Bran
@@reedmckinney7426 everyone, hotpie at least learned something.
" I dream of it sometimes, of Renly's dying. A green tent, candles, a women screaming, and blood. I was abed when he died, dawn was nigh and my lords were fretting, waiting. I should've been ahorse armoured. Devan said I thrashed and cried out, but what does it matter. It was a dream.I was in my bed when Renly died, and when I woke, my hands were clean."
Probably Georges best example of a heart in conflict with itself.
Stannis talking about Renly's peach is one of my favorite monologues in the series.
@@QuinnTheGM Phrasing
@@QuinnTheGM Ned +Lyanna = Jon
@@QuinnTheGM are you Quinn the Grand Maester or Quinn the General Manager
@@piotrszuryn3372 Catelyn + Robert = Jon
Someone made an offhand remark in the books about how he gelded his own men for raping wildling women. That in a nutshell is why I love Stannis. He believes in laws for their own sake, not just as a means to an end, and it applies to everyone in every situation. He would have been an amazing king, no wonder the lords were terrified of him.
Stannis is the most pure example of a Lawful Neutral character ever, and I love it.
Stannis actually has honor and lives by his vows and honor. No wonder the lords of Westeros hated him.
Why do you think he would be an amazing king? Like did you not pay attention to Renly? He was right, Stannis would be a terrible king
@@epicfish8134 well in terms of providing actual justice stannis would be better for the realm. While yes he lacks a lot of diplomatic ability he has gotten better due to considering the advice of the low born such as Jon and davos. It was Jon who got him to appeal to the mountain clans and Davos who led him to help the nights watch. Stannis would likely cause a reckoning among the lords. He would ultimately be better for the common people. Renly was someone who had the ability of charm but does not care for his subjects, stannis considers his subjects even when the lowborn don’t give him yes man responses as long as they are honest with him
@@tenkenroo all the r'hllor stuff is to his detriment tho, i think people overlook how much of a hard sell that is to the seven kingdoms.
He is one of the few characters that actually cares about the ice Zombies in the north, the Real threat of the story. He has principals that are iron and he would never violate. He does not seem to even care about Power for himself, He does his best to become King because those are the rules, and rules need to followed even if you yourself desire something else. He has a daugther that He loves and would never hurt under any circumstances. And also, i think He is a lot Funnier than people give him Credit for
Agreed. His dry sense of humor is something I always enjoy since I have a dry sense of humor.
@@user-qo8se6dd4r Smugling is a crime. Following your leige-lord (in the asoiaf world) is not a crime.
@Random Guy how is it a crime? Stannis did the same back during roberts rebellion. Banner lords have a duty to follow thier liege lord, not thier king (unless their liege lord is the king). Or am i missing something?
@Random Guy interesting. Can you tell me when exactly he says that?
@Random Guy but he doesn't violate them? Like, you said it yourself. Repeatedly Stannis makes it clear how much he loathes these people for siding against him, how much he intends to fully punish them once he has won the Iron Throne.
There's a stark difference between breaking your own creed and being smart enough to understand when you should or should not act on that creed.
Stannis is such a rare character in all books, series, and movies. He's a man who does his duty. It's best shown in his conversation after the battle at the Wall, in which he says all he could do was think about his rights, but Davos set him straight, by saying that he was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom when he should've been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne. What a great man.
Something ironic about Stannis in the show, David benioff and Dan Weiss hated Stannis, but I guess the actor ( Stephen Dillane ) who portrayed him in the show was so good, the character earned a lot of fans.
Also I think that Davos and Stannis are two characters that become the replacement for Ned Stark.
That's a good thought, it's almost like Davos and Stannis are Ned's best qualities split between two characters
@@natedogg890 agree completely. Ned's kindness and empathy for the common people is present in Davos and Ned's devotion to his duty and justice is present in Stannis
Came here to say almost exactly this about Davos and Stannis together inheriting Ned's role. It's weird to have an entire video about Stannis and not mention Davos once. Davos is one of the main reasons we love Stannis so much, we're primarily introduced to Stannis through the eyes of his most loyal supporter, but it's impossible to not like Stannis' treatment of Davos for the most part. Davos' rise to Hand of the King is the epitome of Stannis' just nature and flies in the face of every other character that makes a habit of engaging in corrupt politics.
You're missing out a lot by not reading the books
@@IchibanOjousama he didn't say he didn't read the books
I always projected my love for ned to Stannis.
Ned quite literally died for him, and i trusted Ned's judgment.
So stannis had my trust from the get-go. And his actions, speeches and his story cemented him as my favorite character.
Agree wholeheartedly with this. I also admit I project a bit of my love for the late King Robert onto Stannis and Baratheons are just my favorite House generally.
@@realSimoneCherie yes!!! Mine too!
Ned didn't know that Stannis would use black magic to kill his brother and burn people alive.
@@sidnew2739 well Renly didn’t recognize his claim. He had it coming
@@charlessewell6101 He didn't kill Renly on the battlefield nor did he grant him a fair trial.
He MURDERED him.
With friggin' BLACK MAGIC.
What's wrong with you people?
Personally, I like Stannis because despite his reputation (Like Iron, hard but brittle, he'll break before he'll bend). He's proven to be one of the most adaptable leaders in the story. In particular, he heeds the advice of people who show worth regardless of their status or upbringing. A foreign priestess, a former smuggler, a young bastard commander, hill tribes, a captured king... Stannis tells a story about rehabilitating a hawk, and while the moral seems to be that he shouldn't have bothered, it really reflects how he assembles his army.
I really like that line from Donal Noye. It paints a good image of the Baratheon brother's surface personalities and how others see them, but you learn that really none of it is true. Robert may have once been like steel but he became a shadow of his former self. Stannis is more malleable than he seems, and Renly is more calculating and capable than people give him credit for.
Stannis might reply to, "Iron, hard but brittle, he'll break before he'll bend" in the same way Daniels from the wire responds to bending. "Bend too far and you're already broken."
People give too much weight to that phrase, people change and Noye left the Baratheons' side before or shortly after they became royalty, he did not see them grow (or decline) since then. Too bad Noye did not live to be reunited with Stannis his updated opinion would had been very intesting.
3:27 He is not motivated by honor! He tells John Snow point blank: “Look where honor got your father.” He’s motivated by DUTY.
Exactly. There's a distinct difference between honour and duty. Honour is often an egotistical, personal thing - it's a reflection on your behaviour and reputation. But duty is entirely impersonal - it's something you do even if it doesn't make you look good or popular, and even if it's something you don't want to do.
Rectitude too.
@@EndOfSmallSanctuary97 Eh no. It's somewhat true, but also not.
Not doing your duty is considered dishonorable. Forsaking honor for duty isn't impersonal, nor is it worse or better.
Stannis did not kill Renly "out of duty", he killed Renly because he felt entitled. His duty was to overthrow Joffrey. Instead of he wages war against his brother, and assassinates him, and plans to execute his nephew. Those are the opposite of honor, but saying "oh not doing those things just to not look bad" is extremely stupid and dishonest.
Boiling it down to "he did the CORRECT thing" is just such horseshit that it's hilarious.
He also chose to take Storm's End, and prioritize that over killing Tywin or taking King's Landing. Because duty did not drive him - His ego did. He drones on about how slighted he was that he was not given Storm's End. He shit talks Ned because Robert loved Ned more than him, despite Ned lifting the siege, and Ned supporting Stannis' claim. He is absolutely driven by ego and bitterness.
So yes, he follows his duty. But boiling him down to a dutiful good person who only follows the rules is the biggest lie all the stannis fanboys keep telling themselves.
And I say that as a Stannis fan. My favorite chapters include Stannis in some way.
@@7PlayingWithFire7 This is a comical misreading of the books. Did you even read them?
Stannis doesn't wage war against Renly, Renly wages war against Stannis. He doesn't kill Renly out of duty, he kills Renly in self defense as Renly is waging war on him and took up arms against him. If he didn't, then he would be killed. Renly is the aggressor in this scenario, not Stannis. Stannis is simply the victor.
He also clearly did not want to kill Renly and massively regrets having to do so. No one characterizes Stannis as a "good" person. He's no Eddard, that's for sure. He's dutiful, but deeply flawed.
The primary tension in Stannis' storyline is doing good for good's own sake (because it is the right thing to do) and never compromising on your values. And then a utilitarian good "ends justify the means", it doesn't matter if you maintain the "high ground" if you fail and millions more suffer as a result.
These are the two forces that push and pull him as a character and torment most of his decisions. You have Davos as Stark-esque, Good-for-the-sake-of-Good force who advises Davos to never compromise and always do the morally right thing. And Melisandre who is advising him to take power for The Greater Good and trying to convince him that you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
Throughout the series we see Stannis engage in both this moral systems at different times. He's deeply conflicted about them and goes back and forth between one and the other. He is definitely not as simple and reductive as you make it out to be.
@@LC-wv7tzStannis GOAT🔥🔥🔥🔥🗣🗣🗣🗣
Dance was the book that I really started to love Stannis. (Always liked him) He has a great arc in that book, truly the King Who Cared.
And the released Winds chapter where he arrests Arnolf Karstark and sends Massey to hire sellswords in Braavos is amazing.
"It may be that we shall lose this battle", the king said grimly. "In Braavos you may hear that I am dead. It may even be true. You shall find my sellswords nonetheless."
The knight hesitated. "Your Grace, if you are dead-"
"-you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."
Badass.
Hell yes. It sucks the show didn't go that direction but the books will always be better, and I believe Stannis will prevail!
I think his arc is the thing that really makes him a compelling character.
At first he just seems cold, harsh, and just out for personal power. But after ACOK he changes his perspective on what his duty entails and he's more willing to listen to Davos. But he doesn't become softer or more trusting, if anything he becomes even more determined and skeptical.
In TWOW preview chapters we see him immediately arrest the Karstarks after he learned they were planning to betray him. Stannis is like a Ned who's less cuddly but more willing to play the game
Shame Massey is probably gonna go awol since he seems to have lost faith in Stannis already. If Stannis loses the battle in the north, Massey will just piss off to some sellsword company in the east. If he even waits for stannis to actually die first and doesn't just go rogue.
@@starwarfan8342 Has he lost faith with him? Massey seemed very reluctant to leave Stannis' side, even though it was to raise an army for him. Either way, whether his intentions, I have my doubts he will manage to do this in time. It will most certainly not help in his fight against the Freys, nor the Boltons in Winterfell, and if the Wall falls in Winds (which it likely will), I'm not so sure if it will help him defend Winterfell from the Others either (which I believe will happen, i.e. he defeats the Boltons). I do believe Arya will eventually hitch a ride home with Massey
I think people love Stannis for the same reason people love Grand Admiral Thrawn. He is a military commander that doesn't let his emotions get in the way of his duty. Most of us aspire to be like him in one way or another, being honorable and doing the right thing even if it seems harsh.
Great comparison, love me some Thrawn. I’ve been meaning to read his books for a while now, I hope to over the summer!
@@QuinnTheGM same
And he is attractive as a man
@@IchibanOjousamagay
That's just literally a lie. Stannis loses the war in the south exactly because he continuously lets his emotions get in the way. He lost blackwater because he insisted on getting Storm's End first - for selfish reasons. He felt entitled and slighted for not getting it when Robert was crowned.
He marched on Renly, and assassinated him, instead of overthrowing the Lannisters, then assassinate Renly - Because he wanted the victory to be his.
People gotta stop projecting nonsense reasons that are countered by the the text itself.
As some have said before. Stannis nodding to Jon after Janos' execution is The closest thing to a standing clapping obation from stannis
FINALLY the stanalysis of the rightful king of the seven kingdoms
Stanalysis is my new favorite term. I plan on doing much more of it in the future.
Wouldn’t Stannis technically not have a claim to the throne?
By right of blood, the Targaryens are rightful.
By right of conquest, the Lannisters became rightful after the Battle of Blackwater Bay.
One could say he has the wisdom, responsibility, and temperament for the throne, but that is a matter for discussion.
@@conradhofstedt7524 if you wanna talk about blood, Stannis IS the next in line to the throne, all the Targaryens are dead, bar a woman, a bastard and a (probably) fake, he is the final male heir to house Targaryen.
And by right of conquest? That would make Robb king, the Lannisters have no right to rule other than straight deceit
@@conradhofstedt7524 Lannister's rule de facto, but their claim still rests on pretending Cersei's kid are Baratheons.
@@indigo8722 Technically women, like Daenerys, can rule. The Dance of Dragons was over whether a son came before a daughter. Since Daenerys is the daughter of Aerys Targaryen her claim would outweigh Stannis’s claim since his ancestor, Rhaelle Targaryen, was further down the line of succession.
Also, with right of conquest, deceit is no different that upfront war. The Red Wedding was disgusting and so was the incest of the twins, but history has shown that might makes right. It doesn’t matter how you take the throne, what matters is that you got it. Tommen might be a bastard, but that doesn’t matter. If he has the power to say he is king then he is king.
Stannis is without a doubt one of my favorite fictional characters. Probably my favorite one, actually.
His army’s upcoming battle in Winds and the subsequent outcomes for many Northern characters is definitely one of the highlights I am looking forward to.
I e listened to the release chapters so much! The battle for the North is toning to be epic!!
The outcome of that battle is pretty much the only thing I am looking forward now, no matter whether victory or defeat for Stannis the closure of that plotpoint will be a perfect exit point (checkpoint) until I hear that the whole story is over or confirmation it will never be over.
A reluctant hero, who doubts they’re a prophesied hero AT ALL, and still puts all his effort into his duty.
Stannis and his sense of Justice is very similar to Stark with his Honor. Ned is actually not a traditional King of Winter type figure, growing up in the Vale, he seems to have imbibed traits of the Arryn's (As High As Honor). That could explain why Jon Arryn dies, then Ned dies, both of them operated in King's Landing the same way, it was too easy to predict their next moves.
In F&B we're introduced to a person called Alaric Stark at Winterfell, through the POV of Queen Alysanne. This guy is literally "how do i write in an obviously Stannis inspired character without trying to make him sound exactly like Stannis" by George.
The old King's of Winter were described as cold, harsh men who did what needed to be done. I expect Stannis will be stand-in figurehead of the old Winter King's. His storyline is still up in the air, but at minimum I expect him to rally and consolidate the North, and die defending the realm as he told Davos was his duty.
Stannis has shown the capability to compromise his beliefs to do what needs to be done (secure W's). That's why he's stand-in Winter King. That's why he'll turn to Ice magic when Melisandre betrays him. That's why the Other's will be interested in him. His story is far from over.
It won't matter, because GRRM would rather eat himself to death than finish the books.
It could be argued that "Winter is Coming" is indeed a warning. Starks were called Kings of Winter and North is bigger than other kingdoms combined. It meant that serious asskicking was coming south and there was no escape from it.
It's not hard to figure out. He says awesome quotes and has awesome quotes said about him -
"These pardoned lords would do well to reflect on that. Good men and true will fight for Joffrey, wrongly believing him the true king. A northman might even say the same of Robb Stark. But these lords who flocked to my brother's banners knew him for a usurper. They turned their backs on their rightful king for no better reason than dreams of power and glory, and I have marked them for what they are. Pardoned them, yes. Forgiven. But not forgotten."
"Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. And some will lose more than the tips off their fingers, I promise you. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
"I stopped believing in gods the day I saw the Windproud break up across the bay. Any gods so monstrous as to drown my mother and father would never have my worship, I vowed. In King’s Landing, the High Septon would prattle at me of how all justice and goodness flowed from the Seven, but all I ever saw of either was made by men."
"The look Stannis gave her was dark. “Nine mages crossed the sea to hatch Aegon the Third’s cache of eggs. Baelor the Blessed prayed over his for half a year. Aegon the Fourth built dragons of wood and iron. Aerion Brightflame drank wildfire to transform himself. The mages failed, King Baelor’s prayers went unanswered, the wooden dragons burned, and Prince Aerion died screaming.”
---
"I have felt from the beginning that Stannis was a greater danger than all the others combined."
"Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He’ll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he’s copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day."
"This is Stannis Baratheon. The man will fight to the bitter end and then some."
"Few of the birds that Maester Aemon had sent off had returned as yet. One reached Stannis, though. One found Dragonstone, and a king who still cared."
"Ned found it hard to imagine what could frighten Stannis Baratheon, who had once held Storm's End through a year of siege, surviving on rats and boot leather while the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne sat outside with their hosts, banqueting in sight of his walls"
"Were it anyone else outside the gates, I might hope to beguile him. But this is Stannis Baratheon. I'd have a better chance of seducing his horse."
Also, Asha about Stannis:
“His eyes were sunk in deep pits, his close-cropped beard no more than a shadow across his hollow cheeks and bony jawbone. Yet there was power in his stare, an iron ferocity that told Asha this man would never, ever turn back from his course.”
"I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him?"
Even the "evil" stannis does at times saves lives. Killing renly only saved thousands. The beef was between stannis and renly, not the thousands of soldiers. I just wish stannis wouldve done it face to face. But alot of the bad comes from melisandre.
Stannis never actually wanted to kill renly it was Mel who used the magic. Stannis is bothered by the comment that he killed renly. I don’t think stannis would willingly commit kinslaying.
Honest man. Doesn't do political walk around he just says it how it is. Loyal to his family and does his duty but only got punished for this. Robert denied him Stormlands and Lanisters denied him his throne. Even his little brother he protected during siege of Strom's End backstabbed him. But he just doesn't give up. He took those blows and kept on fighting and doing what he has to do.
And he is a badass. Excellent commander. Managed to keep Storm's End despite running out of everything. Defeated the Stromborn at sea, their home turf. And now going to smash the Freys on ice.
"Loyal to his family" - Dude literally kills one, tries to execute the other, and will burn his own daughter (this is confirmed as George's idea).
Stannis has exactly 2 victories.... One against the wildlings, and one against the Ironborn, with the entirety of Westeros at his back. Did I miss anything else?
He lost Winterfell by being too cautious. He could've outran the Boltons, but he just isn't ballsy enough. This is stated by two seperate characters in the books.
Where is this evidence that he is an excellent commander?
@@7PlayingWithFire7 You missed the siege of storms end. And this "he killed family" argument I see a lot is completely hollow. Renly usurped what was rightfully Stannis's in a blatant power grab. Stannis gave him a very generous option. Renly laughed at him and prepared his army to to kill him. He stood loyal when Robert kept insulting him because he was his big brother. When Renly stabbed him in the back he reacted in only way that was left to him.
I don't get this cherry picking from books while ignoring other stuff either. Like because George said something about books he will never write it can be used against Stannis. But multiple characters in the lore acknowledging his military competence does not?
He smashed Ironborn at sea and Wildlings beyond the wall, their home territory both times commanding Stormmen who are not accustomed to the place. He defended Storm's End and never surrendered despite starvation, protecting little Renly I remind you. And despite losing his entire fleet and most of his army to magical fire bombs he almost overwhelmed the capital.
I mean sure if you just want to hate the character be my guest. Not everyone has to like the same characters. But these are reasons why he is popular.
@@7PlayingWithFire7stannis will not be able to burn shireen as she is in the wall and stannis is at the gates of winterfell shireen will probably die by the hands of wildlings because of greyscale or selyse and mel will burn her for some magical need (maybe to ressurect jon?)
And while on the subject he has lost at winterfell in the show he probably won't in the books which will add to his legendary resume
As ned said 500 men can hold winterfell against 10000 and he will take this castle while having fewer man than the boltons and freys
“What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!”
“His eyes were sunk in deep pits, his close-cropped beard no more than a shadow across his hollow cheeks and bony jawbone. Yet there was power in his stare, an iron ferocity that told Asha this man would never, ever turn back from his course.”
The Mannis memes aside:
For me, I wasn’t the biggest fan of Clash of Kings Stannis.
I think that he is pretty unambiguously villainous in that book what with his assassinations of Renly and Courtnay Penrose, his use of dark magic and Melisandre, his constant whining about his rights, his general attitude towards the Starks (He has a personal vendetta against Ned and wants to kill Robb), the fact that the he lives in the evil lair of spooky old Dragonstone, and, you know, the burnings.
However, as he currently is, I like him. I think that he needed to be humbled by his defeat at the Blackwater. He’s defied Donal’s quote about the Baratheon brothers and has proven that he can indeed bend and make compromises for the greater good. He’s less whiny about his rights and his sense of duty has come more to the forefront:
"Lord Seaworth ... reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne."
Also dosent hurt that he’s gunning to take out the comically evil Boltons and not the likable Tyrion/Robb. Also also, he does have the coolest sigil imo (the burning stag).
the not likeable Tyrion/Robb, what?
For what it's worth, Stannis did not assassinate Renly. He didn't have knowledge of the plot, and we as readers never truly know what exactly went down. Stannis explicitly denies his involvement in it multiple times and even refuses to acknolwedge that Melisandre actively brought about Renly's death, instead chalking Renly's death up to prophecy and an unavoidable outcome of fate. He's probably in denial about the Melisandre thing, which makes sense as she is actively bewitching him, but never get inside Stannis' head to know. We have to take him at his word.
He did burn some people, but they were conspirators that tried to abduct his daughter and send her to the Lannisters as a hostage. They had to be executed
He has no vendetta against Ned. He has resentment over the fact Robert treated Ned more like a brother than Stannis, his actual brother, but he respects Ned's honor and loyalty. Robb is in open rebellion against Stannis and refuses to support him, spitting in the face of his own father's dying attempt to preserve the realm.
The most evil and dislikable thing Stannis does earlier is to agree to sacrifice Edric Storm. Davos stops him from doing, this of course. Clash and Storm both of Davos and Melisandre as angel/devil on Stannis' shoulders trying to persuade him to their course. Davos wins out in the end.
Penrose should've bowed to the OTK. He holed up in Stannises own Castle, trying to rile up his garrison against their rightful Lord and King.
How did he assasinate Renly anyway? It was done without his consent
@@IchibanOjousama yeah it was done without his consent, melisandre disembodied a part of his cconsciousnes and used it to murder his brother which is why he has nightmares of it yet doesn't believe he had a role to play.
For me, it's the story about that lame hawk he had when he was a kid what made me love him. How compassionate he was and how he had to push himself into a pragmatic cold guy. What a character man
The books portrayed a ton of nuance. The fact he considers what opinions consist of the lowborn rather than the dumb concept of feudalism is why I love him. And he learns. While stannis may seem to be rigid he actually shows great change. The reason he makes davos his hand is due to the bad counsel he gets from his lords. He admits fault during the cart before the horse speech.
I think stannis is an example of medieval Aspergers. He doesn’t necessarily understand social interactions but he has a ton of warmth towards davos.
I watched the show before reading the books, so when I read the books I fully expected going into it, hating Stannis. But, the show did him such an injustice because he is one of my favorite characters in ASOIAF.
I was exactly the same way!
“Tell me, Turncloak, what battles has Bolton’s Bastard won, that I should fear him?”
I think what endears me to Stannis most is Davos. Davos is such an easy character to love, and his relationships with Stannis is one of the best parts of the series. The sort of corrupting influence of Melisandre also helps us like Stannis because it gives us a reason to cheer him on even if we'd prefer someone else sit the iron throne.
"Someone else" the Mannis yes, or if not him then Shireen, the last Baratheons of true blood the last true monarchs of the realms
" even if we'd prefer someone else sit the iron throne."
So it's treason then.
I actually think Davos is more a surrogate for Ned. There are even parallels with them both being hands and moral compasses for their Kings.
I don't know about that
Davos is the stand-in for Ned's compassion, mercy and likeability. Stannis is the stand-in for cold, detached justice and duty.
It makes perfect sense to like Stannis, given how Ned died for his claim to the Iron Throne and like Varys says, "there is no creature so terrifying as a truly just man"
He's a good Tiberius, I needed nothing more to like him.
I like Davos. A man who longs to go home, and really should. He has all the sense of duty that Stannis has, but works hard for the innocent, like the bastard son of Robert, and goes off on a quest to rescue young Rickon.
3:35
Important note, Stannis is not a follower of The Lord of Light. This seems to be a general misconception among a lot of fans around the last 10 years (since the show came out, which totally butchered Stannis' character). Stannis outright states that he is an atheist and refuses to worship any gods. That being said, his wife and a sizeable portion of his bannermen have converted to the faith of Rhollor, so he is often forced to appease them. Melisandre has built him up as a messianic figure and this instills fanatical loyalty in his men who follow her faith. Stannis is clearly cynical and suspicious of Melisandre, prophecy, magic, and the faith as a whole, but goes along with it as he cannot deny the blatant magical power Melisandre possesses and even starts having visions himself. He would also likely have a schism with his followers if he neglected their religion.
Dude don't bother. Stannis fans are 100% just fully engaged on headcanon, ignoring the whole text, just picking out soundbites where he sounds funny or clever. Which I agree with, those parts are great, and Stannis is a lot of fun to read. But 99% of the claims about Stannis are just pure headcanon.
@@7PlayingWithFire7 I mean I'm a Stannis fan. A big one. I like a lot of characters in these books, though. Just setting the record straight.
@@7PlayingWithFire7 Fucking hilarious coming from you. You're one responding to comments with utter nonsense and shutting off once someone gives you stuff from the books that completely contradicts your bullshit. Shut up.
I always loved the mannis because his cause is ultimately doomed. I don't know why but I always sympathise and love characters with doomed cause but they still push on no matter the problems they face. Stannis to some extent knows that he won't survive and he wants his daughter to succeed him but we all know what will happen to her.
Just like Eddard and Jon, Stannis also passes the judgment and "swings the sword"--he chops off Davos's fingers himself.
Stannis the Mannis! Stephen Dillane didn't look much like him to my mind but really did capture some essence of the character.
when wveryone else hears about the white walkers and the nights watch being in crisis everyone laughs it off and doesn't take it seriously. When Stannis, who bear in mind is a southerner, hears about it he immediately sends his entire army north to help out
Wow; had no idea you'd be going in this direction when I left the comment yesterday connecting Stannis' exchange with Asha to Ned! How cool!! I never connected the dots that Stannis is a stand-in for Ned and readers transfered their love of Ned onto Stannis- even though I did it myself lol. Something I've been eagerly anticipating since book 2 when it was foreshadowed is Stannis and Daenerys' meeting. I've always wondered how it would go. Perhaps the thing to do now is imagine what Ned would do if he met Dany under the circumstances Stannis is in...maybe we're in for another 'King Who Knelt' situation. Anyway, really loved this video. Nice job. And more Stannis content would only be a plus!!!
My favorite thing about Stannis is that he sends every anoying politician out of the room and talks 1 to 1 to the POV character (Davos/Jon), just shuts everyone up and talks for real with people, no matter if it's nobles or not
Something that I love about Stannis is his reason for pressing his claim to the iron throne isn't desire, but duty. Stannis doesn't actually want to be king, but he knows it is the law. He has to become king or die trying, because if he doesn't he will have said the law no longer matters. To give up his claim is to betray his own, admittedly harsh, sense of justice.
My favorite is when Stannis contemplates sacrificing his nephew, Edric Stone, for stone dragons while Davos begs him not to. "What is one boy to a Kingdom?" "Everything"
Martin is aware of this connection. Stannis says many times "Ned Stark was nothing to me" and I think that is a deliberate attempt to get the readers jimmies rustled "HE DIED FOR YOU ASSHOLE" I think Stannis is one of the characters that Martin has changed his plans with for sure, and it may have to do with Stannis, Jon, LSH, and Brienne but who knows at this point.
Yet where is he now. In the North, trying to reestablish Jon as Lord of Winterfell. You could say that's repayment for his support. And he has plans to defend the North from the white walkers.
Remember its likely he doesnt even know that detail of Neds execution, which makes it tragic.
There's an interview, or conversation, after Season 5 GoT where Martin deliberately says he's changing grand scheme plans for a character killed off in the show. I think originally Martin has him killed off defending The Wall, the last bulwark, holding the Others off, buying time for our characters and the realm, as a King's duty to protect his people.
Now I think his storyline will involve being betrayed by Melisandre, taking up Ice magic at the Nightfort, ending with turning to the Other's as their avatar or figurehead.
also Stannis does not talk about what or who he cares about openly to anyone. he protects his allies this way and he makes his enemies disoriented this way. for example people think he does not love his family because he does not see his wife frequently......and maybe this is true but in maintaining that reputation Stannis has kept his family alive by making people believe they are not important to him hence if they were targeted he wouldn't ransom them or care if they died that much......whereas Ned is known for keeping his family close and it costs him dearly although for Jon he took the Stannis route and let people believe his bastard did not have a place by his side as an adult. Ned was in fact Stannis's superior officer during Robert's Rebellion and likely his equal once the war was over. He would never betray Ned militarily and that is all that matters.
Stannis has a massive chip on his shoulder about Ned since Robert treated Stannis like utter crap while treating Ned like his actual brother. I think Stannis was envious of Ned, though he'd never say it. Undoubtedly had respect for him even if he didn't feel fondly about him. He probably sees Ned as someone who drove a further wedge between he and his brothers after their parents died.
Stannis is the best and that's all you need to know 🗿🍷
I like Stannis because he's the most right, does what he sees to be right, is hated by most people, but continues to push relentlessly nonetheless. A misfit who will save the world whether they like it or not.
Stannis has his vision of justice and he just doesn’t give a fuck. You can’t not love him
It's Stannis ❤️🔥🦌 👑
The king who still cared
Amazing that you will talk next week anout the topic I recommended. Cannot wait continue the good work pal it is great !
This is Davos erasure, Davos is the real Ned surrogate. Also Stannis is genuinely really funny, his delight to read!
My thought's exactly. Davos has all of Ned's compassion and warmth that Stannis lacks. The two of them together capture Ned's warmth and love as well as his commitment to justice and honor.
I hope George R R Martin keeps Stannis in the rest of the books.
Talk about dialogue, and character interactions gold!!!!
I don't think he'll survive the sixth book, but one thing's for sure - he'll take down all the rotten Boltons with him before the end, in one glorious final battle.
@@EndOfSmallSanctuary97
I’m curious,
Why do you think Stannis won’t survive?
@@welcome2thepond714 Because I've never gotten the impression he's a true end-game figure, not like Jon or Daenerys. He's a very important secondary character along the same lines as Robb and Tywin, but both of them were killed off when their specific roles in the story were completed. I see Stannis's current arc as mostly being clean-up duty to clear up the North of the small-fry human enemies (ironborn, Boltons, etc) before the real big threat comes in (the Others) whiich will probably be handled by the main characters like Jon and Dany (neither of whom are able to defeat the ironborn or Boltons).
Because he’s literally the only character putting his duty above his personal desires
He developed as a character a surprising amount and for the better.
Went from someone (perhaps, righteously) bitter and somewhat insecure to serving a cause bigger than himself.
Plus, he's a fully morally grey character, admirable but flawed.
I hope he remains that way, GRRM is right in that morally grey characters are the most interesting.
my love for stanis started as a meme and slowly became real
Would pay good money for a conversation between stannis with ned or tywin
Stannis also inspires strong loyalty from his followers, Davos in particular. He rewards good actions and punishes bad ones.
Theon’s laugh was half a titter, half a whimper. “Lord Ramsay is the one Your Grace should fear.”
Stannis bristled at that. “I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm’s End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him?”
Besides Ned stark and, Tywin... stannis was probably the most responsible person In the kingdom. I mean, if you needed something to get done. you could count on stan to get it done... With or without the right resources....
Great video mate. The two are definitely linked. For me at least, I got really excited to see Stannis because Ned kept bringing him up throughout his chapters.
Most Nobles and Kings did as they pleased.
Eddard and Stannis do what they must.
That's the difference.
''The waves finally carried me, soaked and near-blind from seawater, through the mouth of the cavern beneath the castle. Then Stannis Baratheon arrived.
The siege had left him gaunt, but not weak, never weak. He greeted me and accepted my onions with cool courtesy, betraying no emotion even as all wept.
He doled out the food to his wife and each of his men before he ate himself, a portion no larger than any other. When he finally thanked me, I could see his mind had already returned to the castle's defense. His duty.''
- Ser Davos Seaworth
Loyalty, duty, and justice. That is why.
Stannis is not Eddard. He is not a saint, nor is he all that honorable. He is flawed, which makes him (at least in my opinion) more relatable. Decent, but not perfect.
“A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. Each should have its own reward.”
He's got the hard working drive, he's got the qualifications, he's got the moral character, he's got the years of experience and stellar track record proving his competence, yet people dislike him and any dude with a bit of natural charisma and a basic claim can step over him easy. Just like how real life works!
This is a curious claim for me, given that I read clash first and was made aware of Ned's death so I never formed a connection with him.
Stannis + Davos do feel like 2 halves of Ned though, and their relationship is my favorite in the franchise. Davos is critical to what makes Stannis so likeable.
Socially awkward, thinks he's more important than he is, literally me.
Lmao I think you’re onto something here
Man, this cuts deep. Sadly, I have no 6 foot big tiddy red haired goth gf that tells me I'm the most important person in the world-and that all I have to do to make the world see it is kill some children. Okay, wait maybe I'm better off without that last part.
The one true king.
Stannis is the only man with a plan in this series.
It’s pretty neat to see that both Ned and Stannis share an outsider feel of the small counsel.
The two are not masters of inside politics that surround the throne the are close to upholding honor and justice. They’re not for climbing the ladder, but upholding the law.
I think if Stannis didn’t have a level of jealousy towards Ned, I think Stannis and Ned will probably have a close friendship, it wouldn’t be like Robert and Ned. But something like iron complementing ice
I doubt Ned and Stannis would ever be friends as they are both cold, judgemental and awkward, but I think they would have a deep respect for each other and be natural allies. I can't remember the exact line but I think there is a Ned chapter where he says that he has no love for Stannis.
A few reasons:
He’s the only one in the Wot5K whose claim to the throne is legitimate within the feudal system (since we as readers know that Joffrey and his siblings are indeed bastards born of incest, meaning Robert had no trueborn children and thus Stannis is his legal heir) and he tries to claim the throne not out of personal ambition, but because he feels that it is his duty.
He shows a dry, deadpan sense of humor and has a lot of idiosyncratic tendencies (like his insistence on removing the word “beloved” from his decree about Robert because it would be dishonest) that fans find entertaining.
He’s a competent, tough-as-nails military commander who has some pretty impressive feats under his belt, like holding Storm’s End against the Tyrell siege, destroying Victarion’s fleet during the Greyjoy Rebellion and almost taking King’s Landing during the Wot5K even after Tyrion activated the wildfire trap, only retreating once the combined Lannister/Tyrell army rolled up.
He’s an underdog, the least popular claimant for the throne with a pitifully small army who nonetheless persists against the odds because he’s so ridiculously stubborn.
He has little patience for the backstabbing, manipulation and other political games most of the other characters get up to, preferring to cut through the bullshit and get things done.
He’s one of the most “modern” characters in the entire series in terms of his attitudes. He promotes the lowborn Davos to a knight, then a lord, then Hand of the King based on merit rather than social status. He names Shireen (a girl) as his heir and tells his men to keep fighting for her even if they hear that Stannis has died. He publicly converts to R’hlorr because Melisandre has demonstrably useful magical powers, but he seems to be personally quite secular if not outright atheistic and flatly tells off his own followers when they suggest burning “unbelievers”. He accepts the help of the Wildlings and Northmen instead of dismissing them like so many other southern lords do. He also recognizes how corrupt King’s Landing is and expresses a desire to “clean house” by getting rid of people like LF, Varys, the Lannisters, etc, which readers likely agree with after seeing how much harm those people have caused.
Most importantly, he’s the only figure of authority outside of the Night’s Watch who takes the threat of the Others seriously, and therefore the only king in the entire series so far who’s even trying to deal with the existential danger that we, as readers, know is indeed real and far more important than squabbling over a pointy chair. As Sam puts it, he’s the “king who cared”.
From Reddit
There- Stannis points at the north -lives the enemy against whom I was born to fight.
- The King who cares.
Great insight, the one thing I would say though is that I, and maybe others, are more fiercely loyal to Stannis than we are Ned. Usually a replacement isn't as good as the original. In my mind however, Stannis as a character outshines Ned due to his different (better?) and stronger characteristics. If Stannis were to die, and I had a choice to bring either back, I'd choose Stannis without having the time to blink. Maybe it's because he faces different and greater problems in the grand scheme of things, but the loyalty I feel towards Stannis will never be matched. It's a weird feeling I've never had before. I was shocked at Ned's death, I could cry for Robb, and was angry for Oberyn. And yet, Stannis reigns supreme.
Stannis is justice personified, he does what it right. If renly was the elder brother Stannis would have backed his claim. His dedication to duty and justice is admirable.
Brilliant take that I had never considered.
What I like about Stannis is when he tells Davos how he really feels. When Melisandre that he is the one to save Westeros he says "Do I dare chance that it's not the truth?" Or when he says that he really had no desire to be king but "It is the Law." You don't doubt his sincerity. He's pretty much straight up with everyone and I love what he told Jon Snow "Fortunately I have Hand who reminded me to win the throne you first must defend the realm, not vice-versa." He's not always right but he always tries to do what he thinks is right.
Because he is the rightful king, focused on the main threat
I recently came to the same conclusion. Stannis is the continuation of Ned’s spirit in the story. Ned literally died defending Stannis’ claim to the throne.
While you are the first person I ever vitnissed proposing, that Stanis is a pooular character, I get your reasoning for your own love of him and the describtion of Ned as basicly a security blanket is just the most accurate ever!!!
Great vid
I like him because I don't have charisma and can't charm anyone.his struggle is mine,that's why I relate to him.
He protects, he attacks, but most importantly he is our true king by right!
He's one of the (unintentionally??) funniest characters in the whole series
I like Stannis because he is fair, despite being harsh - just, and the rightful ruler.
Simply put i believe the 7 kingdoms would benefit more from having him as leader than anyone else. People like to quote that line from Noye about how Stannis is iron, and too brittle - but that same quote describes Robert as 'steel' when Roberts reign was an absolute disaster that ended in bastard heirs, war, and massive, massive debt.
"Who is coming? Bolton?"
"Lord Ramsay," Theon hissed. "The son, not the father. You must not let him take him. Roose... Roose is safe within the walls of Winterfell with his fat new wife. Ramsay is coming."
"Ramsay Snow, you mean. The Bastard."
"Never call him that!" Spittle sprayed from Theon's lips. "Ramsay Bolton, not Ramsay Snow, never Snow, never, you have to remember his name, or he will hurt you."
"He is welcome to try. Whatever name he goes by."
*deep breathe* ONE TRUE KING Edit: You are correct, the moment Ned validates Stannis the torch changed hands.
Because he is the one True King. Robert's true heir.
Stannis not only mirrors Ned, but Robbert, his brother, as Well: He knows he can count on Davos to be the voice of reason whenever his Baratheon temper get the best of himself, even thought he might complaint about the truth, he trust his friend to have to balls to tell It to him. A subtle paralel with Robert and Ned that I'm proud to have come up with
I loved that reference to Glidus
In the shattering world of ASOIAF, where Dragons rise, plots fester, Pirate Witch Kings rape and pillage and hordes of the dead muster in the north.
It's is Stannis who tries to seize the crisis by it's throat and deliver humanity through the coming cataclysm.
Standing by his principles and sense of justice only, even if he has to give his life for it. Very few characters could claim to have such noble ambitions.
With the exception of Robb, Stannis is the only other king who actually treats kingship as a responsibility rather than a prize.
“You chatter like magpies. And with less sense. I will have silence!”
I enjoy getting to see a Ned like character from the outside and see how people try to influence him.
Aw yes the Horse theory, my 2nd favorite ASOIAF Theory behind the Multiversal Walder Frey theory.
Because he embodies the most masculine virtue of all - Dedication to duty.
His introduction was presented for us to dispose him in the clash of kings prologue but his action are stern yet just
It arrives! All hail Stannis, all hail the rightful and righteous king!! p.s loved the cat sneeze
I really hope we get to see him sit the Night Fort and help with the fight against the long night.
I can answer why by just looking at the title, at least in my own opinion; because in an age where utter selfishness, laziness, lack of accountability and purposeless drifting runs amock people starve for examples of steadfastness, duty and resolve which Stannis encapsulates.
Based on what I know about GRRM’s writing, I don’t see Stannis surviving the story.
Tyrion also has 15 chapters in a Clash of Kings, arguably the protagonist of that book just as Ned is the protagonist of AGoT.
This is why we're so desperate for the books GRR! We want to see the wrongs done to Stannis righted
Also, Jon is living proof that Ned wasn't as brittle as Stannis