What makes a good Hand of the King in ASOIAF?
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
- Hello everyone! Today I'm discussing the position of Hand of the King in #asongoficeandfire, as well as ranking several prominent hands! What do you think? Is there anything I missed? What do you think of #houseofthedragon so far? Be sure to leave a comment, as well as like the video and subscribe if you enjoy. More #asoiaf content is on the way!
Thank you all for watching! Character art in this video is by TheMico!
My Twitter: / quinnthegm
00:00 Introduction
00:31 Duties of the Hand
01:26 Traditions of the Office
02:08 What Makes a Good Hand?
02:38 Good Example From HotD
04:01 Bad Example From HotD
04:50 Tywin Good?
06:01 Tywin Bad??
07:29 Jaehaerys' Hands
07:55 Rogar Baratheon
08:33 Septon Barth
10:15 The Two Best Hands
10:34 Bloodraven
12:57 The Best Hand
14:26 Circling Back to the Question
15:04 Ranking the Hands - Zábava
Tywin is the ultimate badass (he almost lost a war to a teenager)
@lethabo maunatlala but if you can't win your battles you end up getting Robert Baratheon'd
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That's actually drastic overstatement and I think a misconception the show helped create. The show had Tyrion talking about how Tywin was being "repeatedly humiliated in the field by Robb Stark". Whereas after the same battle that prompts this line in the books (Oxcross where the reserve Lannister Army smashed to bits) Tyrion urges Sansa not to get her hopes over it because ,"My Lord Father is not my Uncle Stafford."
Also it seems fair to keep mind that Tywin when to this battle expecting Robb to overly aggressive or timid and caught unawares when proved to be bold but not uncaitious. A fact that I find funny and you may as well is that Tywin won his most famous victory as a very young man (18) against a more seasoned and famous commander. Tyrion even hints at that they share certain traits when he says of Robb to Tywin l, "You'd like him."
Tywin also won a war when he was a teenager.
Jon con about to make the greatest recovery of all time, from the failure at the battle of the bells to the conquest of Kings landing with Aegon
And then lose it all to Daenerys Targaryen and her dragons.
@@sebastianmunozochoa1485 There is no reason for Dany to do anything but join forces with Aegon.
@@Jacaerys4life it's implied that her burning of king's landing will have better reasons in the future books than in the show. Also George RR Martin has implied that a second dance of the dragons will happen.
@@sebastianmunozochoa1485 That is rumor and heresy, I'm going with what's on page.
Dany wants real family and Aegon is the only other Targaryen, or perhaps Blackfyre, in the world that we know of. Aegon himself wants to join forces with Daenerys. The only conflict I can see between them is Aegon's legitimacy and that's going to be on a much smaller scale than a conflict that would cause a dragon to burn King's Landing. Aegon is going to ask to claim a dragon, he either does so successfully or he fails and perishes. Could the Golden company then try to hold King's Landing against Dany? Okay they could but I find it more likely that they would then join the dragon queen rather than ask to be burned alive.
Before a second Dance there first needs to be a second Conquest.
@@Jacaerys4life I think there is reason cuz Dany knows to "beware the mummer's dragon". If she follows that advice maybe she will be against faegon instead of joining him.
"stable genius Cersei Lannister" made me smile. 😄
Whenever there is a good hand there is usually a bad ruler. A good hand should support the ruler, but they always shine when the ruler has no interest in ruling the kingdom. The worst hands are not the self interested ones they're the ineffective ones. The commander of the kings guard that was the hand for Jaehaerys I.
I generally agree! Though Barth was a very good hand for a very good king.
The diffrence between Tywin and Bloodraven is that Tywin's action directly made people focus on the Lannisters. He WAS the Lannisters.
Bloodraven had no house, his action made people not fear the Targs, bur rather him. An excellent choice if you decide to become the foil to your liege.
I feel like people actually feared Tywin, not the Lannisters as everybody turned on them as soon as Tywin was gone.
@@billcipherproductions1789 Oh hey, great response! I would say that it is shown much more clearly in the books. Here it is quite clearly stated that after Tywin his brother Kevin had the potential to stabilize the realm (which is why he was assasinated).
This is mirrored in how Jamie has the potential to become something "else", he himself imagines himself being known as "golden hands", the diplomat.
So I would still say, what people feared wasn't Tywin, it was the power he held. The power that the family held. He was just the guy who everyone knew, would use said power if needed. Compared to Bloodraven, what people feared was him. He had eyes everywhere, he was ruthless for someone else. Which moved the dread people felt away from the ruler, and onto him.
@@NielsMulvad Agreed. But people did respect Kevan, I don’t think he was that feared. Also, we can see how rude people were being to the Lannisters in Tywin’s funeral. And no one actually respects the new Lady of Casterly Rock. And yes, during the time of Tywin, people did respect the Lannisters but after him and Kevan, no one did.
@@billcipherproductions1789 Hmm was he respected? I think I need to reread the books again, as I can't remember how people saw and thought of him. What I think I remember, was him being a loyal right hand man to Tywin. I believe people were surprised that he was able to stabilize the house as much as he did.
My point is, that Tywin by all accounts derived his power from his house. People feared him, due to the power he had... and because he was prepared to use it. (Raynes).
As far as I can see, the reason people didn't respect Cersie was because, she had no power. She was no longer queen, nor the regent (Kevin took over which lead to his killing). She was not in control of House Lannister, that was Kevin as the oldest male of the direct line. People still respect Jamie, due to the power he wields, and because as we see with the Frays (in the book), he isn't afraid to use his power.
Which all leads back to my perception of why Bloodraven was different then Tywin as hand. And as a "ruler"/commander.
One was a tyrannical magical being, the other a tyrannical family head/king, a person but one that wielded immense power.
I feel betrayed. Not a single mention of Jon Arryn, the REAL best hand of the king. Hands down, no pun intended. Ruled for nearly 20 years and Robert attended 3 council meetings. All was well until he was murdered. I love you Quinn, but you can't do my man dirty like that.
Jon Arryn was mentioned in an earlier draft of this video, but I felt that his achievements were overall a wash. Letting Littlefinger accumulate over 6 million gold dragons in debt is incredibly careless, plus Jon was the one who brought Petyr to court in the first place, which ended up not going great. Overall he did rule over a very long period of piece though, which is good at least. I'd probably rank him just under Rogar at the end of the video.
@@QuinnTheGM you're right about him being the cause of little finger but he had a psycho wife and a drunkard sovereign and he was old AF. He did his best, man. And again, thanks for the content!
Edit: And yes, I realize that I'm defending a dead man who never existed, but can one be dead if they never lived? These are the kinds of questions that only Jon Arryn knows the answers to, sadly.
And he's dead. Or is he?
@@QuinnTheGM as much as I agree on the debt matter, there was nothing of a mistake when it comes to getting little finger.
Little finger, especially in the books, is both very likeable on the surface and also very capable. It almost seems like he is nothing short of a overachiever. Anyone who doesnt know his true intentions would have gladly have hım in such a cruical position.
@@QuinnTheGM yeah but then your favourite hand is Viserys II of whom we literally almost don’t know anything, the book ends. We only know he was hand for the young dragon and baelor, as well as his brother, but we don’t know how much it was his accomplishments that caused the long peace in Westeros
Jon Arryn can be blamed for both Varys and Baelish and everything that they did. He could have eliminated both of them and no one would have gave a single shit; they were both optional. Not only that but he cocked cucked and killed by his appointed man as well. But he let those two vipers destroy the kingdom from the inside. That he let Robert go 6 million in debt without resigning is another indication of how fucking helpless he was to the flow of events. Best hand by far? Lol. Compared to Septon Barth? Baelor Breakspear? Blood Raven? You know who didn't get cucked and killed or let the council be filled with secret traitors? Blood Raven.
I think Orys Baratheon the first hand is sometimes underrated due to defeating "the arrogant" Storm King.
The thing is that the Storm King did not know for sure if there was magic in Storms End that would defend him against dragon fire, he attacked Orys with superior numbers, more seasoned soldiers, during a storm that made it impossible for the dragon to fly and kept everything too wet to burn.
Basically there was a very real chance of Aegon I suffering a crushing defeat and the loss of a dragon, the fact that Orys still won and his policy of marriage and appeasement to the storm lords afterwards are quite remarkable.
To be fair storm was a two sided blade. It caused problems for heavy cavalry due to muddy grounds so Storm King couldn't use all his might.
@@Botar48 and it made it so that Argy’s best troops ran headfirst into dragon fire.
@@aaroncohen2700 Well that was kinda bound to happen on account of a dragon being present.
I feel like Jaeherys looks at the bigger picture so much that he doesn't really acknowledge the smaller details which is where Septon Barth and Alysanne come in. I honestly don't think that if they weren't on his side, Jaeherys would be as well remembered by the realm.
I agree. Though I believe Jaeherys is the best king through his advisors AND his personal merit, his critical flaw is that he is waaaaaay too cautious when it comes to the status quo. Safe to assume the memories of the faith militant uprising were always at the back of his mind
I personally consider 'The Hooded Hand' Tyland Lannister as one of the best Hands.
He isn't remembered fondly by many since he served both sides after The Dance. But the fact the man was chosen to be Hand by a man that he had previously urged to be executed, and served that King so loyally should say alot.
He only served less than 2 years as Hand, but in that short time he-
-Avoided getting involved with a war in the Stepstones.
-After Princess Baela rejects every marriage candidate & says she's gonna marry Lord Alyn Velaryon, he basically says "Fine, just tell everyone the Crown arranged it to keep people from freaking out"
- When winter fever broke out in he city & realm, he ordered the closing of the gates to stop the spread. However, he would end up catching the fever as it neared its end. He died after only two days, in the presence of Septon Eustace and King Aegon III, who took his hand as Tyland took his last breath.
He’s definitely one of the best! I didn’t mention him in this video because I didn’t want to have to do a spoiler section for HotD.
tywin second go at hand was pretty bad. Like cersei he does does not look at the possible long term consequences of his actions. Him planning the red wedding pretty much doomed the lannisters after his death. And cersei follows in turn with the bombing of the sept. When she is crowned she really is queen of 3 kingdoms at best.
He and Cersei do have that in common.
What are you on about the red wedding ensured the Lannisters sucesss lol you really think the Manderlys and minor Stark loyalist are bigger threats than Robb Stark, due to the red wedding they literally had thier blood or alliance on every single kingdom in the seven kingdoms, the crownlands, the stormlands, the reach, the north, Riverlands, the Westerlands and Dorne.
Tywin literally had plans for all of these.All that was left was to move the correct pieces, in which Cersei definetly did not do instead choosing to fight thier strongest ally's the Tyrell's.
@@QuinnTheGMecommend you carefully reread chapter 53 Tyrion a storm of swords, Tywin had a long term plans that most definitely would of worked if he was alive, I mean look at the Rains of Castemare or the sack of king's landing all of those seem very rash on the surface but if you look at the results and how Tywin ensured they wouldn't face any reprocautions while making house Lannister more powerful than ever you realize how smart those decisions where, comparing him to Cersei is wild in my opinion.
@@MphoLukoto-lx9jk he didn't really reassure that considering people still put blame on the lannisters as well as the fresh and boltons.
@@fightingmedialounge519 People like??? And what proof do they have??
Viserys the second is my favorite hotk as well, he dealed with the dance shit on his own
I agree with you about Lyonel Strong ! I thought he was one of the most sensible characters in the show. Each time he appeared it was like a ray of sunshine. F
You forgot the BEST hand of the king. The loyalest and smartest UNWIN PEAKE
Put some respect on Peakes name 😤😤😤
If it would not incriminate him as a tyrant, Aegon III should have had him attainted, his family dispossessed of everything including his Valyrian sword, and had him whipped naked through the streets until he died. While praising Tyland Lannister and commissioning a statue in his honor. Let everyone compare and contrast.
I only just realized that the pin on the hand of the king pin is created out of an extremely extended middle finger. Made me think about a mooninite hand of the king.
"Can you feel this little finger? I'm doing it as hard as I can."
Omg you're right, it is. I thought all this time it had been the forefinger 😂😂😂
Didn't tyland lannister become an hand of the king aswell ? I remmember him being one of the good ones. I also would divide Otto times, since its telled he also basically rulled over westeros under jaeherys and viserys, so before the events of House of The Dragon he was an great hand(not enough to be in the top 4 of course).
Ps. And everyone know the one true best hand of the king is the Legitimate hand of the legitimate king, Ser Davos Seaworth hand of the king who cared Stannis Baratheon !(hehehe)
Tyland is by far the goat. People just disliked him because had a creepy hood on at all times with how messed up his face was from torture
I mean, if you discount the fact that he betrayed his King's legally chosen heir, broke his oaths on the matter which led directly to war.....and that he always ended up serving whoever seemed likely to win....then sure he was a great and loyal hand. Had the council and Targaryan's united behind the legal heir, with all the dragons, then whatever war might have come likely would have been far quicker and one sided then what ended up happening.
Been really liking your ASOIAF content, keep it up!
Love the vids Quinn, recently read the books and this content supplements the wait for winds
I’m happy to see some unique asoiaf content like this, thanks for some original content!
Great video! Thanks for the content.
Said it before and ill say it again... We need an 80's style sitcom Based on Vizzy-T 2 electric boogaloo being the hand to his fuck up brother and even more fuck up nephews, all while trying to Be a good father and grooming his young Son Aegon to follow his footsteps.
Viserys made the same mistake the Conqueror made. He picked the wrong heir. As with Aenys, no amount of teaching and hand holding was ever going to make Aegon the fourth worthy. He should have focused of Daeron more, all the young dragon had to do was marry Daena and secure the dynasty. Unbelievable that either Viserys or Daeron thought Baelor would do anything useful or even remotely sane.
The naming Jamie to Kings gaurd, ultimately brought down house targaryen
Sure, but it was already on its way down the shitter
@@isaiahdaddys9379am the Lannisters, Martells, Targeryans and Tyrell's together equals Roberts rebellion remembered as another Blackfyre rebellion.😂
Keep going! Great vids.
I'd love to see a list of worst hands too!
Great video! 🎉
No mention of Jon Arryn? He was effectively king for 14 years and was solely responsible for Robert's Peace. He's at least better than Tyrion who only served for about a year and who's only major contribution was preparing Kings Landing for Stannis' seige
Amazing video!
Minor slipup my guy (apologies if it's already been said):
The Great Council which both saw the accession of Aegon V and the death of Aenys Blackfyre wasn't at the death of Aenys I, but Maekar I
Beautiful video and awesome channel 👏 please do continue ❤️❤️🥺🥺
Another banger of a video!
"Unwyn Peake is the best Hand."
-Unwyn Peake
The tree small council meetings are only in the show . In the book Rober attented even a meeting about Janos Slynt coruption , He certanly was on more meetings than just 3
I dont even know how Tywin wold know how often was Robert on the council ,from Pycelle ?
My man Lord Corlys Velaryon the Sea Snake convinces psychotic Alicent, burnt up Aegon the Elder, and crooked Larys Strong to spare Baela and make Rhaenyra's son Aegon the Younger the new heir to the Iron Throne. The first Hand of the Queen deserves to be counted amongst the good Hands of Westeros, tested by war and strife.
Almost added him as well, but didn’t want to spoil folks who don’t know about outcomes of the Dance.
@@QuinnTheGM it's cool that you didn't want to spoil anything for anyone, it's nice seeing ASOIF having a new renaissance thanks to HOTD, it makes me wonder how the red wedding spoiler was handled in the wild west days of CZcams and the internet in the early days of GOT when it was getting popular
@@incoherentrambling3139 I remember those days. Believe it or not, we tried to keep things as spoiler-free as is possible on the internet, mostly because we wanted to see our friends and loved ones being completely and utterly crushed when stuff like the Red Wedding actually happened on the show. It was great.
It's interesting that almost every time there's some kind of conflict with the targs the bloodline of the losing side seems to continue and the winner is usually the last of their line
@@otto_jk The Hour of the Wolf was the end of the Dance and a victory for the Blacks, and their line continues with Aegon, Dany, Aurane Waters, Monterys Velaryon, and others in the current story. Even Benn Plumm has a drop of dragon blood.
Brynden Rivers, i haven't watched the video yet but the correct answer is Brynden Rivers
He will do it, for the low price of Shiera's feet pics
@@eldonte7775 a small price to pay for peace and order
He was evil. Not a good Hand.
@@Al-ji4gdhe wasn’t evil
@@randycrawford1132 Yes, he was. Most of the things he did as Hand were evil. Some of them useful, but still bad.
Although the title of Hand of the King came forth for Orys Baratheon, as a title to differentiate him (due to many contributing factors including but not limited to being Aegon's best friend, as the small council titles were still in flux and not established ones) from the Queens Visenya and Rhaenys Targaryen, and Aegon Targaryen the King himself, if it were my assessment, both Queens were just as much a Hand to Aegon, especially Visenya, not only to her husband (Aegon I), but to her stepson (Aenys I) and son (Maegor I).
Tywin wins the war even though Stannis still lives and fights in the North and Euron attacks and takes lands in the Reach, while Dorne plots to overtake the throne and the Vale refuses to really pick a side? Idk if I'd count taking over the Riverlands as a "win" of the war, but you do you. "As long as Stannis lives the war is NOT over." - The best Hand of the King
Nah he won the war. Absolutely destroyed Stannis war effort making sure he will(probably) never take the throne , destroyed Robb Stark and his campaign and did unite the kingdoms through marriage. Dorne, Littlefinger's vale and Iron islands are all things that happened after Tywin's death. Partly because they knew the realm was going to be more vulnerable.
By the time Tywin dies, he still doesn't have a good chunk of the country together. The Stormlands, Iron Islands, and Vale are all still not with him by the time he is killed. His 1 marriage of Marg to Joff fails before he is killed, his other fails literally right after as Sansa is taken away and Tyrion is tried. How is that uniting the kingdom when BOTH marriages failed while he was living.....? Stop being delusional. Tywin is literally in the ground, and the war continues on. Euron sweeps the seas, Stannis sweeps the North, the Brotherhood are destroying the Freys and Lannisters, Dany is doing her thing, fAegon is making plays in the south, Dorne is making plays in the south, the Free Folk are south of the wall. Tywin is a garbage person who literally destroyed his own family and legacy.
@@CrackingCody the vale is brought into the kingdoms by Littlefinger, storms end is just a matter of time before they capture it and no one really gives af about the iron islands lol,but even there Tywin would have eventually captured it. The problem was after his death. Once he died Cersei heavily weakened the Lannisters influence while Stannis, aegon, Littlefinger,doran and Euron make their moves
@@CrackingCodyThe stormlands are with the Lannisters my guy they hold the Baratheon line through Tommen.
Davos. He's a Hand, and a POV character
I don't think of Macheivelli when thinking about how one should be feared and loved in equal measure. I think of Michael Scott, who wanted everyone to fear how much they loved him.
What if Rober had made Stannis hand of the King?
The Good ending
Well Jon Arynn was a great Hand and was like a father to him when he was growing up and Rob had no clue how to rule. Makes sense for him to have the Lord of the Vale assist him and there’s no doubt that he doesn’t need to worry about trust issues.
Stan would've purged Kings landing
@@rhysoneill7399KL would smell roses whenever we went
AWSOME vid!! Clicking directly to the vis 2 vid. Awsomw i was glued.
When ur favorite youtuber/vids u look forward to the most has less than 10k subs>>>
I'd nominate Cregan Stark, if only for his Cincinnatus impression.
He had a segment in an early draft of this script, but I cut it because I didn’t want to risk spoiling folks on HotD in this particular video. He was a stellar, if brief, hand though!
Yeah Tywin was intelligent but like ironically for a guy obsessed with legacy he didn't prepare his legacy all that well.
He's the reverse Ned Stark lol. Great at politics, terrible at family.
Bloodraven and Viserys II.
Jon Connington will soon join the list!
I'm very surprised you didn't even mention Jon Arryn. That guy had arguably the single hardest job of any Hand ever; having to reunite the entire realm after a massive rebellion that overthrew and annihilated the royal family that had ruled for three hundred years. Aside from the Greyjoy Rebellion (which was relatively easily beaten), his rule - and it can fairly be called his own because Robert had no interest in ruling - saw unprecedented peace, prosperity and stability, which Martin himself acknowledges. He made peace with Dorne without a single soldier dying, succeeded in pushing for mercy towards the exiled Targaryen children (which not even Ned could do) and in general ruled wisely enough that none of the many pro-Targaryen lords stepped out of line. His only major misstep was letting the realm go into so much debt, but that's Robert's fault not Jon's - Jon can't outright contradict and disobey Robert's unwise spending decisions, he's still the king after all. I would place Jon Arryn very highly on the list.
Jon was a good hand, but letting Littlefinger into court at King’s Landing was really putting weevils in the flour sack, and bumps him down to the middle of the pack in my eyes
@@QuinnTheGMI disagree because there were no good choices except him or Tywin and Tywin was not trustworthy as his men killed kids
While there isn't a lot of direct examples, it was said Baelor Breakspear was considered a good Hand and expected to be a good king. Then there is Cregan Stark, who didn't hold the job long, but came in and fixed the mess after the Dance of the Dragons.
Love me some Baelor Breakspear! Really looking forward to seeing more of him if Fire and Blood II ever releases.
Well, Cregan would be a bad hand. He wanted to execute Corlys Velaryon, without considering the might of House Velaryon, especially Alyn who still has the fleet and Rhaena who's the only one left with a dragon. Besides, he wanted to punish the supporters of the greens. If the others did not intervene, the realm would not heal.
I’d honestly say Barth was the best hand. He’s easily one of the smartest and all round moral people in the whole series. Only downside I could see was that Barth was very religious and may choose faith over good of the realm but the books explicitly say that this was not the case
If the books say it didn't happen then why even mention it? You could literally pick the archetype for any character and say "Well this archetype is prone to this" but if they don't do that.....its irrelevant.
Viserys II is the best hand ruled for 3 kings, Aegon III, Daeron, and Baelor. All 3 being kings that are received well but didn’t even rule.
Your vids are fucking amazing please never stop
I have to agree with Ned's placement at 7.
I think if he'd gotten longer as Hand and if Cersei hadn't been doing the horizontal tango with Jamie, then Ned would have gone down as one of the better Hands there was. He was fair, could apply force when needed, treated with the smallfolk as well as the nobility, was actually good with money (we see him doing the numbers to try and figure a way out of the black hole that Baelish put them in), and had the ability to stand up to the King and tell him that he was wrong when it was required.
Alas we never got to see what Ned could have truly done in the job in the long term.
Aerys I was Bloodraven’s nephew since Daeron II was bloodraven’s half brother and the great council of 233 was made to choose a new king after Maekar’s death
Cregar's hour of the wolf prooves that starks are effective until their expiration.
Septon Barth, Viserys II (before his coronation) and Tywin take the cake here.
Will you do a video like this on the other positions on the small council?
That’d be interesting! I wonder how many of those positions have enough material to write a video on.
I think an honorable mention has to go to the first Hand Of The King, Lord Orys Baratheon. He served the crown with distinction and valor and proved to be one of Aegon's most dependable generals and helped to solidify the new Targaryen order in Westeros.
As a dad, I agree with the Bad Dad Counter.
Lyonel Strong has to be the best hand ive seen in the game of thrones universe he was extremely loyal to the realm and his king absolute chad the scene where he talks about Viserys's rule is my favorite in the show
Bloodraven for sure. Awesome character.
but terrible Hand..
I would say Chaotic Good would align more with Bloodraven no? Chaotic Good is doing whatever is best no matter the means. Lawful Evil in my eyes was always more about doing what most would consider apprehensible deeds but done with logic and reasoning, not simply on a whim or to further one's own goals. In that way, i suppose a little of both existed in him.
So glad you did collabs with Dave Lightbringer because I dabbled in his content, was introduced to you, came on over to your channel and I enjoy your content significantly more
are you thinking of different youtuber Quinn's Ideas?
I am not Quinn's Ideas, I'm a different person. My name is also Quinn though!
@@QuinnTheGM oh shoot, freaky coincidence. Sorry I got your identity mixed up, compliment still stands.
The more blistered hand with a good amount of lotion would be probably the preferred hand of the king. If he wants to spice it up he just needs to change to the non-dominant hand.
I tried to add a "Bad Dad Counter" to Fire and Blood and it gave me an EE Overflow Error?
I think Jon Arryn deserves an honored mention. The guy knew how to stabilize the realm after Robert's victory, and he was a good administrator. Because remember, no matter how bad Rpbert was as King, without Jon it would have been then times worse.
Also, I hurt every time someone forget ma boy King Maekar (you kinda jumped from Aerys to Aegon V)
Jon Arryn is also partially responsible for much of the crowns issue tho. He was the one who brought Littlefinger to court who subsequently embezzled god knows how much and left the crown millions in debt. On top of the Littlefinger appointment, he also allowed Varys, who he would have no reason to trust nor should he considering he was a spymaster for the mad king, to stay on the council. He also likely chose most of Roberts Kingsguard which was one of the worst lineups the realm has ever seen, which most notably includes Jaime, who any reasonable man would probably insist he be removed from the position.
And if we wanna get real petty, he did technically set up Robert’s marriage which ends up being the catalyst for all to come.
I would say the best hand would depend if you include member of the Royal house or not
"lyonels other son who is not Harwin"
Fuck Larys' drag 💀
Cregan Stark best Hand of the King. Walks in, tells everyone that they suck, executes some people, and takes a blackwood wife and a bunch of Prisoners north the the Nights watch, basically hands the pin the the manderlys and tells everyone to fck off, has a bunch of kids and patiently waits for his Pact of ice and fire, still a dope swordsman at an older age and impressed Aemon the Dragonknight.
I don't think Otto takes a whole lot of blame for the dance of the dragons. If I recall he proposed the idea to marry Aegon to Rhaenrya to make him king consort which would have prevented Civil War entirely. But viserys refused and on top of that he made rhaenrya his heir in the first place which was a horrible idea. As much as I like him Viserys takes basically all the blame for the conflict.
But by the time aegon was 15 rhaenyra would have been 25 and considering her mother rhaenyra ability to create heirs was a concern for viserys. Also it is implied that viserys did not approve in targaryen tradition. Naming rhaenyra heir was not greatest destion however it could
Have worked if she was properly prepared and supported. E.g teach her how to be heir instead of noble lady. Marry leana instead of allicent delay connsumation for several years after marriage so Any siblings rhaenyra had would be very young
The marriage to alliicent was a power grab for otto believing he would name his grandson heir changing his destion
Out of all the hands in ASOIAF I’d pick Lyonel Strong as mine,he was extremely intelligent,underestimated because he’s quiet,he’s very honorable,he didn’t have to snake his way into power he did it by being one of the smartest people around for a long time(close second is viserys ll)
Not Jon Arryn? I feel like his one mistake was trusting Stannis and cersei with the information of Joffery & co's parentage before telling Robert. Otherwise he bridged a very dramatic shift in power, kept the seven kingdoms together despite a ton of bad blood, and maintained an era of peace. Robert's bad decisions and stubbornness isn't Jon's fault
The debt accumulated by Littlefinger is too massive to ignore, in my eyes.
I feel like that isn’t a mistake really. Jon Arryn is described as being as honourable as Ned and as Robert’s step dad I’m pretty sure he knew exactly what Robert’s reaction would be (a lot of murder and another rebellion). The Lannisters at that point were pretty much the strongest house as they had their claws essentially everywhere. Also I think the reason Jon Arryn didn’t really act on the matter was him being confident in his safety. You can’t really blame him for being poisoned by Lysa.
@@QuinnTheGM that was definitely Jon’s biggest failing (but since it seems littlefinger was responsible for putting the realm in debt I can’t blame Jon for that, littlefinger just has too big of a chad brain)
@@QuinnTheGM absolutely. He had a target on his back.
Telling Stannis? Meh. Telling Cersei? Jfc Jon Arryn, shut yo mouf.
The worms makes me think of star gate
Where would you rank qyburn?
What are your thoughts on Cregan Stark? I know he presided over a war tribunal more than governed the kingdom but I really like the potential he had/him knowing when to step aside. Maybe a day or two is far too short, and maybe having an easily cowed king helped in being able to resign, but other hands could have taken some notes in that respect at least?
Also, I’d have to study up on Tyrion’s tenure again but, as I recall at the moment, it feels more like Tyrion THOUGHT he was doing a good job (as much of what we know is from his time in office is from his POV) as opposed to him ACTUALLY doing a good job.
I think Cregan was a stellar hand for his short tenure. Main reason he wasn’t discussed in the video was in order to avoid HotD spoilers for those who haven’t read the book. I’d have also mentioned Tyland Lannister if I were to do hands from the end of the Dance.
@@QuinnTheGM As good a reason as any to omit him/them. Thanks for the reply and good video!
Am I wrong or was the economy simply not discussed? I grant that GRRM himself seldom talks about it, but it's one of the most important factors to evaluate a good ruler, at least for me. Tywin and Viserys II appear to have been good at it, for instance.
Viserys, no question
As Littlefinger says in his lore video, the realm needs a king who can build what he dreams himself, instead of making his Hand do half or all the work. the king eats, the Hand takes the shit. and a man who shits what another man eats, is an ass.
Off the top of my head. Viserys and tywin come to mind. Viserys did everything to keep the realm together and later became king while tywin was actually making good work but mad king had an ego and made things worse in mostly peaceful times.
Hand or not hand Magor bloodraven for war needing someone who can keep wars from beginning or stomping them out as soon as possible is never bad with the faith and black fires
I agree
Of only he could've tempered his nephews a bit more.
Tywin is a good regent but a bad hand because thats the title hand of the king not head of the king tywin given his nature more than likely over stepped himself too often and while aerys wasnt a good king himself Tywin is the guy you leave alone to do shit somewhere else
I like most of the rankings but Tyrion wasn’t really a good hand of the king, mostly just making enemies , getting rid of Lannister allies like Pycelle and Janos Slymt, and allowing real threats like Littlefinger to stay in power
I think Littlefinger remaining in power is definitely a massive misstep on Tyrion’s end. The other two were loyal to Tywin and his sister, so I at least see his logic there.
He was more competent than most ppl thought though. End of the day I agree with u 100
Only say that bc his tenure as hotk changed him indefinitely. He realized he had value and stopped his degeneracy
@@OFNBW I wouldn’t agree that he became less of a degenerate cause while hand of the king he still does messed up stuff like killing the bard and even after he’s still visiting Shae and mistreating Penny later
@@QuinnTheGM So, loyal to House Lannister. He undermined his family's position.
I love your videos, and a think you forget the best Hand of the king.... Tyland Lannister, the man who save westeros after the Dance of the Dragons
I do quite like Tyland, but also just feel horrible for him. Guy went through a lot to say the least, dude had an iron will tho.
I do appreciate he was one of the few who didn’t try to control Aegon III. Must’ve realized that the kid was gonna be fucked in the head if someone wasn’t nice to him after all he had been through.
Jon Connington while he was hand for the Mad King and now Aegon Young Griff
Barth was goated
what about Daemon Velaryon king Jaehaerys 2nd hand of the king he was one of the most underrated hand even tho he did a great job and give priority to the realm over his family and only resigned once the problems of Jaehaerys reign were solved.
No mention of cregan stark??
Baelor Breakspear was a good hand for a good king hahaha. Wish we knew more about Baelor, maybe we will get it someday..
I bet we’ll get more of him if Blood and Fire ever comes out.
11:55 It's 233 AC, after the death of Maekar, not Aerys.
Cuz it goes: Aerys I >>> Maekar I >>> Aegon V 😁
What about Cregan Stark?
The Hand of the King is a fancy term for chancellor or prime minister, a position common in many kingdoms and empires across history. Funny enough, strong kings like Louis XIV of France warned future kings not to appoint such a man and run their kingdoms themselves. Wise advice, it's just that, many kings and emperors didn't follow such ideas.
Tyrion was goated
The man that you said was the greatest Targaryen king I would say he was the greatest Targaryen king after the dragons before that it’s obviously the conqueror, not only to hear you not the whole continent underneath his rule. He had the faith & all eight kingdoms not interfering the tradition of the Royal House, which is something that many with a dragons failed to accomplish
Otto isn't bad he's ambitious, but NOT bad
In terms of a constructive collaboration with the king, Barth; in terms of the king shitting and the hand wiping, Vizzy 2, narrowly beating out Jon Arryn because the latter didn't notice Littlefinger was building a financial bubble.
Tylose isn't even the best hand from House Lannister
Forgot to give a shoutout to m'boi Lyonel Strong. Gives Ned vibes if Ned learned the game
Bloodraven= Lawful Evil
He did anything and everything to keep the throne in Targaryen hands.
@@isaiahdaddys9379 he also let his personal vendetta against Bittersteel get in his way and cause him to get banished to the wall. Although I guess that was kinda a good thing lol
@@olofacosta3192 Was it, though?
@@Al-ji4gd personal vendetta? Absolutely. Didn't need to kill aenys at all. If it was a good thing? Probably since he's helping Bran
@@olofacosta3192 I know that, I meant the getting sent to the wall part. I love Bloodraven as a character, but he's a pretty bad dude haha.
Who was Aegon V’s hand? That’s puzzled me for years. It certainly wasn’t Duncan, and given Egg’s progressive policies were unpopular with the nobility, it must have been someone respected, powerful, and trustworthy to not undermine the King.
Great question, I don’t think we know! Martin has kept that era very hush-hush, likely due to wanting to do more dunk and egg books.
The second great council was after Maekar’s death, not Aerys I.
The best Hand is Harys Swyft, hands down!
a Good Hand knows how to clean up after the King.
John Arryn was a good one. Peace and prosperity
what about 6 million dept?
littlefinger hid the debt too efficiently@@tariizm1500
Tyland Lannister was actually pretty effective as Hand for the few years he was, better than Unwin Peake, Thaddeus Rowan, or Torrhen Manderly
The best hand of the king is without a doubt..... Ser Davos.
Good HOTK. Politically savvy, Military genius, financially savvy... Ned Stark was the worst possible choice for Hand in the history of Westeros except for the Pyromancer for Aerys. Tywin Lannister is the picture in the Westeros dictionary when they look up Hand of the King.
Stannis should've been Roberts hand
Was Maegor ever hand?
He was, prior to his exile.
Its better to be the hand of a king than the king, my take.
Thaddeus Rowan was the best Hand. Fair, just and loyal.
Ned and John Arryn should both be here