Does Patrick Mahomes need to pass Tom Brady in Super Bowl rings to be the GOAT? | NFL | SPEAK
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- čas přidán 5. 02. 2024
- Emmanuel Acho, Joy Taylor, LeSean McCoy and James Jones debate whether Patrick Mahomes needs to pass Tom Brady in Super Bowl rings to be the GOAT or not.
#Speak #NFL #PatrickMahomes
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The revamped SPEAK takes over the airwaves with Emmanuel Acho, LeSean McCoy and Joy Taylor covering the day’s hottest topics in sports and offering their unfiltered takes.
Does Patrick Mahomes need to pass Tom Brady in Super Bowl rings to be the GOAT? | NFL | SPEAK
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He needs 8! Brady needed 4, or 5 to finally pass Montana. 6 sealed the deal. So yes he needs at least 7, honest 8 to pass him for most. And he lost to Tom head to head. So he needs to go to 10 like Brady, but have a better record, go 8-2. We have to treat him like we treated Tom! If your the GOAT, we shouldn't have to treat you with kid gloves just to put you in the conversation. We should make it harder, bc that's how we treated Brady trying to pass Montana.
THIS SHOWS WACK😂! IM DONE 👍 YAL EMBARRASSED YOURSELVES TODAY EXCEPT ACHO ... So shady then your nowhere near the best Running back IN YOUR LOGIC 😂
Yo shady is absolutely pathetic sometimes. When they debated Peyton being top 3 he shut down all of his stats and accolades and said 2 chips in 17 years so patty is better. Now to defend patty he saying why do stats n accolades not matter 😅shady get pats meat out your mouth! Learn to think outside of ur narrow minded view point
Shady is bias and confused about Brady and Belichick! How is Reid is better than Belichick... what's the head to head record? Same as Brady and Mahomes --> 2-0. The end of the day is how many rings you have and not what the stat's say.
@@bearxxxbear Dido! Their argument is weak for Patrick and Reid.
Who would argue that Terry Bradshaw was a better QB than Dan Marino?
It isn't just rings, it is stats and the eyeball test.
💯% agree!!!!
My eye test says Brady beat him in the afc title game and in the Super Bowl.
Bad example bro. Nobody in their right mind would say Rodgers better than Brady if talent is all that matters
Brady beat him when it mattered the most and i cant stand Brady
The eye test doesn't tell you how a player makes suggestions in team meetings or how a player makes checks at the line to change up the offense. Quarterbacks, more than any other position, have influence over the coaches play calling. Mahomes has won with one of the best offensive minds in the history of the game as his head coach. Brady won with a defensive coach that can't win without him.
Winning 7 going to 10 plus winning one of those in Tampa along with dominating in his 40's(including going through Mahomes for 2 SB's)makes Brady so uniquely great he will always have a solid argument for the GOAT. He completely shattered the mold in longevity, SB appearances, and most of all SB wins.
Also mention Tom Brady got carried by his defense for majority of his career and Patrick Mahomes has always been the driving force behind every Super Bowl win the chiefs have had
And Cheating...
@@user-lt1fx2he5s maybe some day you'll look into those games a little deeper and find out how wrong you are. Did you know he actually carried the pats in the second SB with 350 and 3 touchdowns when the game turned into a shootout in the second half and the D couldn't get a stop to save they're life? He literally led the league in TDs in year 2 and was getting MVP votes by year 3.
@@tacoabeast8385 right after the deflated ball game he killed the colts by 40 points in the AFC championship.
@@Travis89-ob5ttSo who won the first three Super Bowls? Who had the game winning play in the Super Bowl vs Seattle? Game winning play in the Super Bowl vs the Rams?
Acho is a brilliant dude. I’m
Convinced he takes some stands for the sake of TV… Cause some things he says logic is just so flawed because he’ll make an similar take in a day or 2 about different people but that same logic suddenly won’t apply
I so agree!!!! I started to get FRUSTRATED listening to his arguments & rationals!!!!
Of course he does, it's TV
James, not only does Eli have the two rings-he best Rodgers to get one of them 😂
the eli disrespect is crazyyyy
I love how h2h is discredited because of the dynamics of the sport, yet Josh Allen gets killed for h2h record even considering his great numbers.
Josh is the lukaku of the nfl
how is josh allen being discredited? literally everybody thinks he is a top 4 qb.
Josh can’t win the big game when it matters the most
Facts.
They don’t talk about how bad the chiefs line was that year
These analyst underrate clutch moments. Tom is clutch and that’s why he wins above all
How come he wasn’t clutch against the Giants in the 2007 and 2011 Super Bowl? How come he wasn’t clutch against the Broncos in the AFC Championship game four times? How come he wasn’t clutch against the Eagles in the Super Bowl with the game on the line?
@@user-lt1fx2he5s Because Bill could not make the stop that his supposedly Super defence is supposed to do. The same defence that could not stop Nick Foles of putting 41 points on the Patriots. In both Eli SB the defence could not deliver and the offence was ok. Brady was clutch on five of his 7 SB wins that is clutch on 70% of his SB.
@@michelleblanc6377tell himmmmm
Here is a "Stat" That Shows How Clutch and Great Tom Really Was...In The Redzone With Bucs Tom Had 64 TDs & 0 INTs..."64-0!!"...This Stat is Absolutely BANANAS!!!!!...If Mahomes Had That Stat it Would be PLASTERED All Over Sports Media by The Mahomeboys
@@jackwoods9604 Jack if we start looking there are a ton of crazy Brady stat. For instance Brady during his career threw for TD to 98 different receivers. He probably has the highest number of receivers. Why do you think that is? For most of his career he didn’t have that one or two guys that would always be open. So in order to make the plays he had to scatter the ball left and right to different guys. People forget what was his situation when he landed in NE compared to Mahomes. I said it before and I am going to say it again you cannot do a straight comparison of Mahomes first 6 years to Brady’s first 6 years. For starters just the difference of close to 20 years makes a huge difference in the stats that they were both able to compile. In a nutshell when you do that you are comparing apple to oranges.
I could be wrong, but I need to ask this question and Tom Brady’s first five seasons did Tom Brady ever have the offensive weapons that Mahomes had did Tom Brady have a offense of weapon as talented as Travis Kelce did he have an offense of weapon as talented as Tyreek Hill why are we saying that Patrick Mahomes is doing this all by himself Tyreek Hill alone can change the dynamics of an offense and how a defensive coordinator plays a team.
Two things to pick up… it’s funny how when Brady beat Mahomes EVERY TIME IN THE POST SEASON, all of a sudden “they don’t play each other, they play the defences”… yet just two weeks ago we were being subjected to long form discussion of how Josh Allen can’t beat Mahomes in the post season 🤔
Then the same James Jones that spent all of the last two weeks arguing all that matter is that Bill Belicheck has 6 Super Bowl rings and Andy Reid doesn’t, now conveniently wants to argue against Brady’s rings with “the eye test” GTFOH
Eli Manning, Bill Russell. On a rate basis, Mahomes far outshines Brady in every conceivable statistic. Stop playing.
@@dominicpancella3012 how lazy are you? Bill Russell who’s ONLY metric are his rings because there were no league MVP’s through most of his career, and most of the advanced stats were not tracked?… Eli Manning that outside those two Super Bowl wins is a .500 QB who was never even an All Pro much less an MVP? Yeah stop regurgitating stuff you’ve been fed online cos it just sounds silly to anyone that actually had a decent understanding of sports…
And the part they didn’t tell you online about the “rate basis” is that you don’t track rate based on the WORST part of someone’s trajectory… That’s like celebrating being just slightly ahead of Usain Bolt coming off the blocks, when that’s the weakest part of his race.
I mean it’s kinda hard to eye test coaches 😂😂
@@dominicpancella3012Which ones? You realize Brady has higher single season peak stats then Mahomes right? Mahomes career highs are all lower then Brady’s in Pass yds Pass TDs and pass completions the big 3 for QBs
@@davis2k1234 Usually for quarterbacks, rate stats are measured per attempt, per completion, per dropback, or per game-sometimes per season as well. His completion percentage, touchdown percentage, passer rating, and yards per game are all higher, his interception percentage is lower, and pretty much no matter what statistic you pick, as I said, Mahomes has the better number, even when just comparing their first seven career seasons, even when comparing Mahomes' career to Brady's peak, and especially when comparing their playoff careers.
Why are they acting like Tom isn’t one of the most clutch, Accurate, tough passes on the biggest stages. And they’re forgetting g how easy Aaron Rodgers made the game look. And he was mobile.
Didn't they discuss this last time when played Brady in the SB how did that work out? The media needs to relax on the goat conversation
One person was on the much better team, Mahomes lost both his tackles the prior. He also reinjured his foot in the very same game.I wouldn't call that the finisher. Mahomes is more talented, Brady is more accomplished.
Tell me you don't even watch the games. Mahomes had a spectacular performance, dude did plays brady would not imagine of doing. And in the afc championship game in 2018, 118 passer rating for mahomes and 75 for brady.
Mahomes was so good that he couldn’t even score 1 TD 😒 Brady done almost beat that Denver defense with a bad line in the AFC championship game against Peyton Manning. That Denver defense was way better than Tampa Defense. Tyreek still played , Travis Kelce. Tom Brady played in the Era against some of the best defenses and won & also played in Pat Mahomes era and still won. Shady McCoy only got a ring because of Tom Brady he tripping 😂
@@jordanquarles9313 he threw passes while parallel to the ground that hit his recievers in the face. You're a clown that doesn't even watch the games
You probably don't even know the meaning of parallel. Get off the internet
@@zrpggamermahomes played terrible against the bucs. Brady wouldve done better cuz he reads defenses better
Just one time, just one, when Shady says "How many stats did you have?" let Acho ask him, "What stats did you have in those two Superbowl wins of yours?" and zoom in close on Shady's face. Zero and zero. He never even stepped on the field, both times. Will someone PLEASE bring that up?
Im waiting on them to bring it up. Shady did not win any rings. he was given a ring because he was just there..........ON THE BENCH
Yea , Acho never touched a Super Bowl field or got any hardware to even prove he played in the league
Tom and pat debate is different from other sports debates its rare the King GOAT go against the Prince GOAT. Tom was playing Out his prime while the Prince GOAT was in his prime In Pat. Tom brady beat Pat twice i believe he can never be the goat gotta leave it to the future now
lol what a joke. You know Pat outplayed him that first game right? Don’t be so much a homer. Brady is 10-11 down by 7 in the playoffs. No goat should be that bad.
Please don’t do the head to head because if that’s the case then Eli Manning is the GOAT 🥴
@@settiming7968not really because where comparing Brady vs Mahomes nobody thinks Eli is in the convo with Brady
@@Yungbigdawg65 y isn’t he doe, if you’re going by head to head he beat the “Goat” twice… once during an undefeated season
@@settiming7968 they don’t care. Pat has so many upsides compared to Brady, it’s all they can rely on. They don’t even care that Pat outplayed him. Or that they are 3-3 head to head. Or that QBs don’t play defense. When Pat has 8 rings, people will still say Tom won head to head
Let's not forget 4 or 5 of them Brady rings were in a time where the defense could head hunt and actually play defense. Imo with ow wide open the game is becoming every record will be broke at some point
Players are scared to touch mahomes. You see them let off anytime they are near him.
@@tqllafacts like for example week one against the lions mahomes ran and the safety was right in front of him and he sagged off if that was 20 years ago mahomes would of got laid out
For starters he has 7 not 5. Secondly I would like you to point out which 4 game Brady was not instrumental in securing the win. Also I would like to point out to you that Brady might have two extra rings if the defence would have done it’s job properly.
@@michelleblanc6377 duh I know how many he has. My point was 4 or 5 of them came in a different NFL game than how wide open it is now
@@user-pm1mw7yp6w duh I can only read what you write(5) not what you were thinking of writing. Duh.
Mahomes is the 🐐
"7 Super Bowls is crazy!" is the reason Brady is the undisputed Goat. "6-0 in the Finals is CRAZY" ...which is why Jordan is the goat. Pat needs to go at least 6-3 to be considered the Goat or he needs to do something that is CRAZY that even Tom couldn't do. When we talk about greatness it's no longer about stats; it's about records, accolades, moments and making history.
Brady no Goat(7rings) Lamb
Belichick (8) Rings GOAT..
Belichick 2 superbowl rings with
NewYork Giants as a defensive cordinator before headed to New England..
Jordan-(6) rings LAMB
Bill Russel (11) yes (11)rings
GOAT
@@Frank-mu5yz Belichick has 6 rings has a HC, Stop changing the conversation to your narrative. If Brady had 3 rings as the Executive of The Vegas Raiders you would count them? No you wouldn’t. Please stop with the idiocy’s.
(8)- Belichick rings..google it.
The word if has a lot of weight..
Your usage of (IF) is meaningless
IF...IF..I could of done this or that..
Then I'd would of accomplished
Certain goals..in LIFE..
(If) lions would of gotten that outside kick
Against the ninersThen it would of
Probably been Lions in Superbowl..
(If) Green wouldn't of been benched
For one game against la-Bron. On the
Playoffs..Then Probably Warriors of taken the Championship..(If)
(IF) They Would of given the ball
To lynch..they could of probably
Scored to Beat New England
In the Superbowl...
So how do we respond to (if)
OH WELL.. ITS THEIR LOST...
WHAT CAN I SAY..
HOW DUMB OF THEM ...
THEY WERE JUST LUCKY...
I COULD GO ON AND ON...
But I'll stop.
Many hurdles in life..
That people would of wanted to accomplished..
But the word or thought (if)
Would still of been my word for
not fulfilling my accomplishments..
( 4 ) simple words ..in life
( AND, IF, OR, BUTTS,)
Can guides in life ..
Words I've used for my GrandKids.
One is Pilot...Another Neorsugen..
Both succeeding in Life..
Thanks for reply.
Again Brady- not a goat..(Lamb)
Jordan- (lamb)
@@Frank-mu5yz Just one argument . Brady could win it without Belichick. Belichick couldn’t win as a HC without Brady. Mike drop. Have a nice day. He did to Brady the exact same thing he did to Bernie Kosar the guy is not even smart enough to learn from his previous mistakes this is what got him fired in NE and more than likely his career is over.
@michelleblanc6377 thank you for response..
I won't drop my mic..
Knowing that Brady at times has had
BUTTERFINGERS
Still a Lamb..
Now its a team sport, yet they be havin segments QB VS QB
facts bro 😂😂😂😂 it was just tua vs mahomes even tho kc defense put miami in a straight jacket .. only td is when they motioned away from sneed
yes they finally corrected themselves
Like joy said, it’s to sell the game, to get more views. Main thing ppl talk about are qbs, qbs are the main focus of a team. Just because it’s done doesn’t make it right and what should be done, it’s all entertainment
I would say he needs to atleast tie the superbowls because at the end of the day that is the biggest stat that people look at and I want to add two things, not to say Tom is better or a certain thing happened at the end of one of their matchups:
Tom Brady has 2 big head to head defeats over Mahomes. How those games were won does not matter to someone looking back at it 20 years from now. And also the big thing is Tom "won" those matchups in literally his 40's compared to Mahomes prime.
Tom also has the leverage of he went to another team in his 40's and did it again. That is insane.
Stats wise they talked about Mahomes nearly 30k yards at 28. Tom Brady has 89k yards..... That is absurd. If you combine Joe Montana and John Elways yards together they are at 92k yards. That is how insane Toms yards are.
And also Tom has the moments. He literally has the biggest clutch and game moment of all-time coming back from 28-3. How it happened aside I once again say, it is a legendary accomplishment. I also disagree with James about athleticism. Quarterback is the one position where it literally doesn't matter, being accurate and reading a defense is 100x more important than running around and being big and athletic. Not to mention Tom had a really strong arm and his accuracy was perfect. Being big and athletic is actually bad for longevity because they are causing a lot of contact. I know it sounds like I love Tom but I hate the guy, I just have to be honest about how good he was. I'd put Tom and Montana at 1 and 2 currently, Mahomes at 3 but can interchange with Montana easily.
I never got why brady gets extra credit for leaving a declining team for a team that had everything besides a qb. also just because the average simple minded human forgets about context doesn't change the actual context of the situation
@@ybkid6513 Here we go, another blind man spouting up that nonsense line that Buccs were stacked. The same stacked team that was shut out by the Saints. Same team that was average at best before the bye week. The same stacked team that needed Gronk, AB, Leonard, and Succup (the only ones to score in the SB), in order for them to even be decent. Same stacked team that almost lost to Tyler Heinicke in the first round. Same stacked team that played the same defensive formation all game in the SB but Pat just didn't want to adapt, cause that same defense got like 20+ put on em by Rodgers the prior game. The truth of the matter is, that Succaneers team was not good just had a few talented pieces like every team does. But Brady showed them a winning culture and got them to believe in him and in a SB goal, and it took everything they had to make it there. Unlike Mahomes, who couldn't score 1 TD all game and refused to change his playing method.
If Pat is so great, let him get to 8. Why lower the bar for this guy.
No one is winning 8 lmao. No TEAM has 8 lol, but he don't need it anyway. He needs 4-5
@@jctslice 4-5 to be clear 2nd. Brady set the bar at 7 it’s only right the next guy beats it.
We lowered the bar for Jordan he doesn’t have 12 rings
@@kingofnewyork8818 Russell played in a 8 team league with most centers at 6-7. u gotta add context, otherwise Jim Thorpe would still be mentioned as best athlete ever.
@@michaelbeltran7414I agree with you, but if Patty gets 5 there will be an argument. As there is currently with MJ n LJ. My personal take is Brady got the records and he got the rings so if you don't break the records you're going to have to break the rings, which is near impossible but just my take.
First there was the "tuck rule", Seattle's Stupid pass on the goal line, Dee Ford lining up in the neutral zone, please.
They glossed over Joy's point, but It was the best argument about the head to head... QB Vs Defense not QB bs QB...!!
Everyone…ESPECIALLY younger folks are so quick to have recency bias and forget history.
This topic is always discussed without context. Example: These shows keep comparing Brady's first years in the league to Mahomes' first years in the league. Mahomes' stats are better but if you add context, then you'll see that Brady got drafted to a defensive minded head coach in an NFL that wasn't a prediminately passing league yet. While Mahomes got drafted to an offensive minded head coach in a league that was pass heavy. Add the fact that Mahomes started his career with Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce as part of his receiving core. Brady's equivalent to Hill and Kelce would be Moss and Gronk. Brady got drafted in 2000, he didn't get Moss until 07 and Gronk til 2010. They were playing under totally different circumstances
EXACTLY!!!! I thinks it's too soon, to say who he is the ultimate best!!!! Plus Brady had played for how many years before he play against Patrick Mahomes?!?! I don't get how this is the 2nd time that Acho is making these same arguments!!!
In this same context brady has multiple rings because he was carried by the defence, but you just gloss over that lmao. Brady won a ring throwing 1 td that whole post season, but you just go and count rings like a child.
@@zrpggamer would you say mahomes has been carried by the defense this year even if he Winston the SB?
@@zrpggamer the same defense that couldn't carry bledsoe a pro bowl Qb, that defense wasn't winning them games then.
@hanspatmpouma1183 same defence that held the greatest show on turf to 17 points. You're a clown, legit massive clown. Get off the internet
2nd time brady faced the rams in the superbowl his defence held them to 3 points. Best offence in the league to 3 points. Again you're a clown
Shady wears the cape for Pat and TB12 because he was the team that won SB. Cuz ain’t even touch the field during those playoff runs. Blessings To You G
Brady was never in the same trajectory that Mahomes is currently on.
Only 2 of Tom’s Super Bowl appearances did he have a completion percentage on par with Mahomes last Sunday
Mahomes surpassed Tom’s entire post season rushing yards with just the last 4 games alone.
If head to head is all you want to look at, I got these 2 cats named Nick Foles and Eli Manning who Tom could never beat when it truly counted
Head to head is a team vs team
People act like Brady decisively beat Mahomes in every game they played. The reality is that Mahomes went to New England in the regular season and won the game by a large margin.
In the AFC championship game Mahomes led the comeback and the game was actually won when Dee Ford's toe was over the line by a few inches and the Patriots got one more play to tie the game. Then when it went to overtime the Pats won the toss and Mahomes never got the ball again. (This was before the league made the rule to give the ball to both teams in overtime) Credit to Brady for driving the ball down the field against a less that stellar Chiefs defense to win the game, but that was hardly a decisive win against Mahomes.
In the Super Bowl Brady win, Mahomes was running for his life on an injured toe because of his offensive line being decimated with injuries. That was a decisive win, but tainted by Mahomes injury and a depleted offensive line. But it was a decisive Brady win none the less. Mahomes had a decisive win against Brady in the regular season. I consider the AFC game a toss up because Mahomes outplayed Brady the entire game and had the game won if a Chiefs defensive lineman had not have lined up with his hand a couple of inches beyond the line of scrimmage.
If you want to consider head to head, in my book, it is 1 decisive win for both and a game that I consider a tie. If the offsides call was not made Mahomes would have won and if they had the rule that is now in place that would have allowed Mahomes to have the ball after the Pats won the coin toss and Brady got the ball I think Mahomes would have driven for the tying touchdown and who know who would have ultimately won that game, Mahomes clearly out played Brady in that game and Brady was lucky enough to win the coin toss. I would not count that game as a decisive Brady win.
Brady and Tampa had him running for his life the whole game
By your logic, then Mahomes is the "if" goat. Cool title. You can have that. Reality GOAT is Brady.
Nobody is disputing that Brady is the GOAT for now. The question was that if they were tied with 7 superbowl wins apiece does head to head wins mean that Brady keeps that title. I was just pointing out the their 3 head to head encounters was less than convincing. Even in the decisive Brady superbowl win, Brady had less than a stellar performance. The Tampa defense against the Chiefs depleted offensive line is what was the major factor in that win. The head to head is not a good measurement of both of them for the reasons I outlined in my comment. Mahomes is not the "if" goat. Brady is clearly the goat. But if Mahomes wins Sunday he will have 3 SB wins in his first 6 full seasons. It is very possible that he could get 4 more in the 12+ years of his career.@@sonikspeed19
Get back to me in the year 2039 when Mahomes is 43 and has got his team to 5 Super Bowls in a 7 year period (At ages 37 to 43) and was a SB MVP in 3 of them and a league MVP 2 times. / Brady has thrown for 4/5 of the top passing games in SB history/ Mahomes 0
Get back to me in the year 2040 when Mahomes is 44 years of age and he led the league in TD's passing. Yards passing (5300) and completions like Brady did
Get back to me when Mahomes is unanimously named back to back All Decade QB (2000's & 2010's) over a 20 year period.
I could go on and on and on. At age 43 Brady threw for more TD's in the 1st half a SB 55 than Mahomes did in his first 2 SB's combined
Wanna Play with me Chump?
And idiot Tom Brady was 41 years of age in that AFC Championship game on the road as an underdog > That never remotely resonated in that pea brain of yours did it? Clearly outplayed my a$$. I'll take you on with that ultra lame assessment.
~Waits
Acho.... News flash, QBs don't play defense so they NEVER play head to head. You played in the NFL you should know this. And that Tampa team that won, won off of defense and Patty was missing 3 of his starting offensive linemen. Thank you Joy!!!!!!
The greatest quarterbacks show up in the greatest moments, and Tom Brady did that the most often than others, and as great as Patrick Mahomes is when compared to Tom Brady the sample size is too little I’ve been a New England Patriots fastest 2002 with Janet Jackson at the Super Bowl and every since then Tom Brady has been my goat. 🐐
He can 3-4 and that depends on how he wins and gets there to me personally. No one thought he'll get there this year and last one.
So if Mahomes has the first 3 peat ever then what??
They gon say it don’t matter
Thank you
Bill Russell had I think 3 3 peat....but Jordan is still considered better....so what's your point
@@obinnavictor3458What has that to do with anything when no one in football has three peated.
@@superjaysilverbird1089 exactly.....nobody will still use that as a yard stick to say mahomes is better.....but the kansas team can claim to be the greatest team of all time
Honestly, why don't we just say what everyone is thinking. Based on Mahomes current trajectory, of he wins this Sunday and gets to 3 SB rings, the dude can legit get to 7 (and with ease). When you have generational talents who have an addiction to winning and being the best that's a lethal combination. Pele won 3 World Cup titles, the first when he was just 17. Usain Bolt rewrote the record books of what the 🐐 in sprinting should look like by 3 peating at the Olympics, something that was unheard of in sprinting and yet he did it in 3 different events while still holding world records that over a decade old.
Look at tennis, when Sampras got to 14, ppl thought that was the epitome, no one could get past that. Then we saw the 3 goats of tennis obliterate that record because they were far more gifted but also driven than Sampras, played longer than Sampras and dominated tennis in a way we've never seen before. The same can be said of MJ.
Now, when you watch Patrick Mahomes I see a player cut from the same cloth as an MJ, Usain Bolt, Nadal, Federer, Djokovic. A player who is not only physically talented but mentally strong as well. That's a lethal combination, and the proof is in the pudding, 6 straight AFC games, the guy has only lost playoff games in overtime and once in the Super Bowl because of injuries to his team (and himself) but you can see Mahomes is constantly learning from his mistakes, just like MJ, Bolt and Federer and continues to raise his game.
Why do most QBs fail to win many SB despite their talent? Because the team can't keep a talented core around them. Mahomes said he can take any group of players to the SB. He has that clutch gene (which Brady had for his credit, but this is about Mahomes)
Injuries stop a QB and t be fair it hampered him in his 2nd SB, but he learned from his mistakes. He made clutch runs on a bad ankle to literally win games. Like that is some MJ flu game ish, you know what I mean.
And the last thing which I think might be the most impressive I've seen 2 QBs in the post season play almost perfect, amazing games against Mahomes and lost. I saw them play above their talent and left Mahomes with less than a minute in the game and he beat them both.
That tells me that Mahomes is not only on track to be the 🐐 but he's on track to be arguably one of the greatest playoff QBs we've ever seen. That is where he's like Brady, he's extremely hard to beat in a game.
So I think the question of does he need to catch Brady in rings to be the 🐐 when the question should be after this Sunday if he wins his 3rd SB ring, when he will catch Brady, because if he gets 3 rings this Sunday, I'll be honest with you, I'm not going to doubt that he can to 8 or 9. You heard it hear first. Mahomes is a transcendent, once in a generation talent ala- Nadal, Federer, Pele, Usain, Djokovic, MJ and then we'll all be wondering why we even doubted this kid could have gotten to 7 in the first place.
Get back to me in the year 2039 when Mahomes is 43 and has got his team to 5 Super Bowls in a 7 year period (At ages 37 to 43) and was a SB MVP in 3 of them and a league MVP 2 times. / Brady has thrown for 4/5 of the top passing games in SB history/ Mahomes 0
Get back to me in the year 2040 when Mahomes is 44 years of age and he led the league in TD's passing. Yards passing (5300) and completions like Brady did
Get back to me when Mahomes is unanimously named back to back All Decade QB (2000's & 2010's) over a 20 year period.
I could go on and on and on. At age 43 Brady threw for more TD's in the 1st half a SB 55 than Mahomes did in his first 2 SB's combined
To me, when it comes to the GOAT debate I go off individual accolades Super Bowl MVPs, MVPs, All Pros, Pro Bowls, etc
In order for Mahomes to catch Brady in the stats area is he will have to play at least 21 years total at the exact same pace he's on without having a drop in stats from year to year. No way this happens.
no he wouldn't math must not be your strong suit.
But if he does so he'll have WAYYY more rings
@@ybkid6513 bro...just go to ESPN and look at the numbers
@@tioluwaoladimeji5712 You are kind of counting your chickens before they hatch here. I highly doubt it but good luck with that take.
@@ybkid6513 Mahomes in 7 years - 28,424 yards and 219 TDs. Brady - 89,214 yards and 649 TDs. MATH and research must not be your strong suit...
Glasses is just a Huge Mahomes hater. Mahomes just need 5, IMO. But if he were to win this bowl and next year’s bowl, he’s the goat for me.
For you....that's fine...that's your opinion not the general consensus
Patrick Mahomes has been the engine of his team since the day he started his first game. Brady was carried by great defenses for his 1st three superbowls. So if Mahomes wins 6 as the driving force and has better stats and can do things Tom couldn’t, how would he not be the goat?
Eras are just not the same .
Shady so cheeks, James proves his point and he got a problem... man FOH
Great player, terrible at this
From what these people are saying, I can tell for certain the NFL and Fox are telling them what they can say and can't say. When Shady brings up stats for Mahomes and Acho brings up stats for Lebron, they never bring them into context. I don't know about Shady but Acho is too smart to not realize the difference in era. Mahomes play in an exclusively offensive era where every offensive stats is inflated. Comparing Lebron's stats to Jordan is also the same. Their job is to hype current players. This is why I hate these kinds of disingenuous debates.
Brady is literally why the era went solely offense lmao
@@Jeads5431 better argument is to say that Brady made the era the way it is where you can't hit anyone lol
@@Jeads5431 To say Brady is the reason is nothing but jealousy talk. In 2006 the NFL changed the rule to help Peyton Manning win his first Superbowl by making it illegal for the DBs to hand fight with the WRs after 5 yards. In 2007 Carson Palmer hit late and low (which was a cheap shot) by the Chiefs player Pollard that tore his ACL. He was out for an entire season. Then in 2008 that same Chiefs player did the same to Brady and tore his ACL that knock Brady out. The next year, the NFL changed the rule to prevent defenders from hitting a QB below the knees. You could say that rule was because of Brady. Then a few years later Peyton Manning got hit in the neck that broke his neck. The NFL changed the rule to prevent defenders from hitting the QB above the shoulders. Then in 2012 the NFL got sued for CTE by former players. In 2014 or something the NFL decided to change the rules preventing the defenders from hitting defenseless players and hitting players as hard as they could. There were many changes like targeting rule, head hunting, or lead with your helmet, etc. Then in 2017 the NFL further changed the rules to give the offense even more advantage due to the popularity with Fantasy Football and the NFL is dipping its toe with Gambling. Are those rules change because of Brady?
Those rules changes benefit Brady because it allows him to play longer. But Mahomes started playing in 2018 when the rules vastly favor the offense to the point where you can't even accidentally touch the QB in the head. In 2022 the defenders have to cradle the QB to the ground if they want to tackle the QB and the receivers. In the past, it was a huge deal whenever a QB pass for 300 yards per game or 2 tds. Today, it happens very frequently. And even bad to average QBs throw for more yards and tds per season than the HOFers of the past. It is like comparing a dollar today to one dollar 20 years ago. Heck it is like comparing a dollar today to a dollar 10 years ago.
@@jctsliceI don’t see it that way, it’s the way the game transitioned, similar to Kobe in the nba, both Brady and Kobe played in both eras
Can we please get higher definition videos? I always feel like I'm watching this in 2008
Unfortunately Dee Ford cost him one in KC second one Tom had a better offensive line but I watched that game when KC played NE and Pat outplayed Tom😮
There’s no real context to these shows just overview which hurts these conversations
EXACTLY!!!! I start to get too frustrated with the debates about Pat & Brady!!!
Tom is the goat. Michael is the goat. Stop fooling yourselves lol
Doesn’t mean Tom can’t be caught. Let’s not forget he was carried early on in his career.
U say that like history can't Change 🤦🏿♂️ mahomes on pace to pass brady in just about everything
Exactly mahomes is lebron lol😂
@@barwisebangbang4320 please don’t compare the two 😂 Mahomes ain’t lose more than he’s won in the finals/SB
Ok watch how time changes. Tom was never this good at the beginning of his career. So I would hesitate in saying definite
She right. There is no head to head with players unless you play on different squads. Offense vs Defense. Football isn't played for QB vs QB. It's team vs team. The only way we can compare QBs is statistics.
Acho is right. Years from now they are going to compare chips and head to head. Not only that, but TB has truly memorable performances in the SB. Atlanta comeback is all time historic and he went on to add two more and one with another team.
I’m not saying that Patrick can’t or won’t surpass TB, just that it’s ridiculous to talk about it now.
This is a completely different discussion if Dee Ford never lined up offsides lol
Exactly
Always an if guy somewhere denying reality
*If* The ultimate low brow IQ retort to a lame hypothetical that never happened.
Hey Chump get back to me when Mahomes is 41 years of age and he has his team in an AFC Championship game.That should be around the year 2039 when i hear from you
At age 43 Tom Brady threw for more TD's in the 1st half of a SB *55* than Mahomes did in his first 2 SB's combined
And that's not *IF* that's actual stats
Care for more? I'll gladly oblige you
Mahomes won a Ring last season off the back of a hold in the Super Bowl lol. We can all play this game.
Acho 100% right on his take today 🔥
Tom the goat rn but let’s not act like Tom was the best player on his team for all 7 superbowls his defense was carrying him
Spot on Acho. Talk of Mahomes passing Brady is absolutely insane to me.
How do you pass someone who has more rings than you and beat you twice in direct competition despite being 18 years older.
He's not even passed Montana ffs
Mahomes is going to need 8 rings to pass Brady. That's facts
I think he needs at least 5 but he doesn’t need to surpass the rings just records to ne
SoTom set the standard and now we're lowering it for Patty come on man and y'all know he won't reach 7 or pass it thats why y'all are lowering the standard
@@ashtonramsey386 Toms first 3 he was basically a game manager. He only have 1 TD in his first playoff run, i wouldn't call that a winning QB. Also most people believe Mahomes is more talented but Brady is more accomplished.
@@enigma13ff physically talented yes but talent is not only physical it can be mental also and when they played Head to head that physical talent of Patty didn't mean to much to old TB12 and plus that patriots team wasn't stacked like the chiefs offense was the patriots was defense first and had good talent on offense but chiefs had great offensive talent that made it easy for Patty so patty had it easy when he started compared to tom
@@Jeads5431LeBron choked 6 finals you morons lol stats ain't nothing if you lose at the end more then you win
@@ashtonramsey386Yes I keep trying to tell people that it’s not just about physical talent because if it’s just about and based Physical Talent then Tom Brady or Joe Montana are not even in the conversation for the goat quarterback if it’s a Talent the top quarterbacks in no particular order would be Peyton Manning,Aaron Rodgers,Patrick Mahomes ,John Elway and throw who ever you want at 5
Love when Acho breaks down plays on Film Room. Shady expands on stories from NFL teams he was on. James Jones calmly counters with stats like Dave Helman would. Joy, she is pretty. 🙃
Brady was part of Belichick system that didn’t depend on the pass to win. Imagine if he let Tom cook. Look at Tom his last years in Tampa Bay. Brady cared about winning and did it with less talent. Best football IQ, always protected the football, best 2 minute drill qb of all time, and had the best two Super Bowls: falcons and eagles. Played perfect in the 2nd half of falcons, and put up the best numbers against the eagles. Mahomes 2 Super Bowls was won on penalties and shanahan not running the ball in the 2nd half which would’ve been a blowout
Yes tom Brady is amazing but tom said to Patrick is your league now. Tom Brady sees the potential that Patrick has and one day he will pass tom brady. This year to have all those drops and penalties and yet to win a Superbowl back to back is crazy. This dude is not 30 years yet and he has accomplished this much. He likes the pressure he loves the hunger to get better and better and perfect his craft. With a great quarterback great team and to have andy reid is future is bright
Pat is the goat. Why? Because in the most talented era in football at the QB position he has no peers. Brady didn’t separate himself until he won several more chips in an era where his toughest competition was the Manning brothers
Brady the GOAT. Patty ain't sh8
Nobody's better than Jordan period.
Kareem
Larry Bird was better than Michael Jordan, and I'm tired of pretending he wasn't.
@@dominicpancella3012 Kobe > Lebron. Bird > Lebron. MJ > Lebron.
As long as you agree with that, we good.
@@dominicpancella3012 P.S. Kevin McHale was BETTER than Larry Bird in 1987.
Just saying....Bird might be the GOAT, but in 1987 McHale was better and I'm tired of pretending he wasn't. Yes, even better than Magic in 1987, McHale is criminally underrated.
@@feynmanschwingere_mc2270 Oh, for sure. Lebron's stats are vastly inflated because scoring is like 20-30% higher than it used to be across the board.
When comparing apples to apples Greatness is based on rings imo. Pat does need 6 or 7. He may already be the best Qb of all time, or most talented. Greatness is based on longevity and rings. Winning the grand prize. Yards, Tds, and counting stats change throughout the years based on gameplay and rules and player talent. The one thing that transcends time is Championships.
What’s better? $5000 or $7000?
Yep
Depends on how fast you make it. I'd rather make $5k in a day than $7k in a week. Also, did you cheat to make the money? That counts, in my opinion.
@fillupsherman that's the best counter I've ever heard against that "more money" argument
What's greater? Earning $4500 and getting $500 from 50 other guys? Or having 50 other guys earn $6500 and give it to you while you earned $500?
We can’t keep running away from the head to heads. If we want to talk about one of those QBs advantage then fine but what happens if you make less mistakes and than the qb and out score them the qbs
A battle doesn’t have to direct person to person
When you go to an arcade and shoot next your friend you are competing head to head but you aren’t technically playing each other same principle
U have to look at long our careers are that’s how long did it take you to reach your peak? Did you go up or did you go down?
TOTALLY AGREE!!!!
Bruh - let’s visit this topic when he gets AT LEAST 5. CHILL WITH THIS CONVERSATION. Put some respect on Brady’s name.
Nah fr the disrespect is crazy.
Yes he does! He needs 8. Even if he(Pat) gets 7 rings, Tom and the Bucs smacked him up in the Superbowl and to overcome that Whoppin he has to get 8. Acho is 100% correct here. Rings Matter People. Shadys fayboyism clouts his judgements in these debates....# Megatron #
they don't actually play head-to-head, L ratio
@apecentury228 Of course, it's a team game but Brady is up on the Legacy scoreboard ...# Megatron #
@@apecentury228 0-2 hold that L Mahomeboy meat rida
This how I end the argument, you have a team your down 4 it’s 2 minutes left and you can choose between Mahomes or Brady to be your qb… everybody and I mean everyone guy is gonna tell them to pick Brady cause you can’t go against… you just know he’s gonna get you da dub in that situation
But Mahomes only needs 13 seconds to do it. 😁
@@Gisburne2000you mean cheetah and kelce cause they did the work with yards after catch😂
@@Luisperez-qx6id Did Brady throw to receivers or did he catch the ball too? It's a team sport, all QBs throw to their top clutch players who they know will finish the job. All except Dak Prescott, obviously.
@@Luisperez-qx6idhe had Wes walker, Randy moss, gronk, Aaron Hernandez, Branch, T.O. , Ocho Cinco, and Julian Edleman.
what are you smoking? plenty of people would take mahomes
I’m 💯 with Achos take on brady 4:52
Brady had 3 rings at age 27, how does LeSean do his math, because he needs 7 to be in the same conversation. Brady beat him twice in championship games and that's your head to head.
Facts
He can’t be the goat because he was never able to beat the goat when it actually mattered. In crunch time Patrick will crunch up against the GOAT.
Too many contradictions he also doesn’t have 5mvps like Peyton I doubt this guy is playing until 45 and he also has a cast around him unlike Tom Brady which had gronk only ?
Bro you’re crazy 4:51 Tom Brady didn’t have good weapons first of all Mahomes has four MVPs to regular season two Super Bowl MVPs Tom Brady didn’t get an MVP till year eight he won three Super Bowls so what does that tell you he’s not even the best guy on his team let alone in the league😂
Eli beat Tom Brady in two Super Bowls does that mean that Eli Manning is the goat over Brady😂
He lost with all backups for his offensive line. He’s a better talent and his number will surpass Brady. Don’t let him actually get 7 rings… it’s over
Tom is the only true Goat
Eli manning is therefore the goat
Of course McCoy would say that. But be real…Mahomes just doesn’t have the QB and team comparison competition that Brady had just about his entire career in NE. He was playing in an era against Manning, Favre, Rogers, Brees, Roesthlesburger, etc. If not for Tom, Manning would have way more rings. So tell this argument to Peyton Manning. Mahomes wouldn’t be doing what he’s doing if he was playing in those guys’ era and prime. He really has no real competition. Lots of young, newer QBs and less future HOFers now playing in Mahomes’ days. Competition inferior.
A true JOY to watch!
I'm back now @12:00 shady moving the goal post. In the beginning he talking about patty has a lil of TB and a lil of Lamar wrapped up in 1 so his talent is unmatched but gonna say a 40yo TB is not normal. Someone who is not known fir being mobile ever but still out getting rings at that age. Big picture at 40 will patty still be able to throw or RUN like he do now for that matter so common sense says the numbers will decrease...
People will choose who their GOAT is based on their own personal narrative. Because if you count on rings Bill is better than Jordan so is a lot of other players that have 7 rings in the NBA. We don’t even discuss rings when we talk the greatest baseball player ever. So your GOAT will be what makes you feel good at the end of the day.
No, the GOAT is overall body of work, rings, stats, MVP's, everything, that's simle and factual but some people live in fantasy land
Bill Russell didn't play in the NBA. He played when it was basically a startup or a pickup game. That argument is invalid, just like you.
@@sonikspeed19butt hurt much
@@kingofnewyork8818 Not at all, just tired of this lame argument. Y'all have 2 brain cells and can't come up with anything better. Think first, then speak.
nah crazy but respect to acho for mentioning the head 2 head .. i hated brady growing up n been a fan of pat since day 1 but it literally could’ve been 5-5 if pat beat him twice
He didn’t outduel Mahomes in that first match up I swear people mix that up
acho makes a good point. we compare qbs head to head all the time. it's never, "it's not fair because qb1 faces qb2's defense, not qb2". none of that matters when comparing qbs now, so why does mahomes being 0-2 to brady somehow not count?
Patrick Mahomes was drafted in 2017 in the first round, 10th overall. He was expected to be great..Tom was barely drafted in the 6th round, pick 199! Coach Carr the head coach at Michigan at the time explained how New England was the only team in the NFL that called about Brady. You don’t get a Hall of Famer from a player that’s a back up QB from high school through college and in the NFL to being a 7 time Super Bowl champion and breaking multiple quarterback records, it just doesn’t happen!
But greatness comes with making the team great not a team making a player great ! Who had a Better a team ?
As it stands, Mahomes is the BEST QB in NFL history, and Tom Brady is the GREATEST QB in NFL history.
One thing I see in these shows is recency bias …. How quickly we forget …
Just remember WHO CHANGED / REVOLUTIONISED the game …
MJ > TB12 > LJ > mahomes …
Happy to bring into Messi, pele, Serena, Roger, Gretzky, Phelps …
I dont think you can go off passing yards anymore because reciver's can almost not be hit anyymore compared to when brady first started. but pat is way more athletic for sure. brady was more of a packet passer
The problem is you're talking about a guy who might get four or five versus a guy who actually has seven. Mahomes may not even get three and after this weekend this may not aged well but...
That’s the smallest part of it. He needs to do his part with passing yards, make it to the top of the passing TD list, all that
It was interesting to hear them talk big about how many yards Mahomes already has but it is absolutely no guarantee that Mahomes gets to Tom. Tom has close to 90,000 yards. That is absolutely nuts.
People can’t keep saying that it’s just about eye test and Physical Talent because if it’s just about Physical Talent and Skills the Tom Brady and Joe Montana are not even in the conversation for the greatest quarterback if it’s just about Talent the top quarterbacks in no particular order would be Peyton Manning Aaron Rodgers Patrick Mahomes John Elway and Dan Marino
I guess Dee Ford lining up offsides for the dagger pick in the first loss, and pat almost literally dragging a broken down offense to the super bowl the next time they meet don't mean anything, but yeah you guys are all right, tb da goat 😂
Joy is the voice of reason
Joy said getting to and winning 8 superbowls is insane but but Brady been to 10 and won 7😂😂😂 y’all make a point then prove yalls self wrong in the same take you too Shady plz you didn’t even get a snap in the Second Super Bowl you won so if not for Brady you would only have 1 ring 😂😂😂😂 shut up!
They played in two very different eras. Off the bat pat is playing in more games. In a pass happy league.
Tom was in run first league and when defenses were allowed to play defense.
Pat is playing borderline 7on7.
Ain’t even a debate. Tom well over Father Time beat him twice and those two times is one of the main difference why there is such a big difference in rings.
Tom is the goat and it ain’t even close.
He needs 8 the stats don't matter due to the 17th game we have now. Plus Brady's first years were in a defensive driven league. Also these days the defense is handicapped with the rules now and can't really play. So of course Mahomes stats are gonna be way better
Yeah, but Tom Brady started his career in an era of football where you could still play defense
The fact Pat ain’t even tripping off what everyone else keep arguing about. I’m so sick of this debate
Ancho you had me in the first half, second half I am now demanding a mandatory drug test
Rings can't really just be a 'flat' discussion, a black/white one. People act as if Brady's first three rings were won in the same vein of form as the 28-3 comeback, the Tampa performance or even his 4th ring against the Hawks. He played just 'good' at best in 4 of those and that's fine, 100% fine, Mahomes might just do that against the Niners, but this discussion HAS to be more nuanced than just something so simply defined.
For the love of God, can ya'll please tell Shady to stop over talking when someone else is talking or making remarks!! I literally can't finish watching just listening to this guy not let others finish 😤
Crazy how Bradshaw got 4 Troy for 3 and never mentioned but we talk about ships
No one thinks those 2 were the driving force of their teams, I am a Steelers fan but if you think a 50% passer rating was a direct result of 4 Super Bowls something is seriously wrong. Most would say that defense, running game and thirdly the QB. Same with Aikman, he played will but no one says they wouldn't have a dynasty if someone else was playing QB.
They should be talked about in the conversation.
@@enigma13ff They should still be mentioned regardless.
james if we’re going off the eye test, then lamar jackson, josh allen n them boys would be in this conversation
Unlike Michael Jordan and Lebron.
.... Tom brady and patrick mahomes Had the Opportunity to play each other more than once. I remember at least 3.
Times that they play each other and Tom Brady WANT 2 of those 3 Matches. Therefore that should put him. On top Over Patrick mahomes, if that conversation ever came up and besides, he still has to win this Super Bowl. Don't jump the gun.
I am not sure what Basketball game you’re watching, because it’s a team game too. The only one on one game would be like golf, tennis, or pickle Ball. When means if LeBron and Michael did play against each other in the NBA it would be five on five, not one on one.
Michael never caught Bill in rings, but he’s still the goat in most’s eyes
“You ain’t got no rushing title?” 😂😂
The fact Brady went through Mahomes to get to his last Super Bowl (while being over 40) should at least give the Goat some breathing room for a while.
Tom beat Pat 2 times when it mattered and shady talking bout he got better stats last time I checked Brady had 80k passing yards and almost 700 TD’s with 7 rings so until Pat can come close to that it shouldn’t even be a debate knowing the Brady beat him twice as well
Facts!! Brady also owns basically every QB stat and now Patty will get to play 17 games instead of 16 every year.. So his stats will be inflated
Rolling up a cigar is crazy 😂😂😂
Swap Acho for Nick Wright and just let him do two shows.