How VFX Artists Built an Entire City For 2005's King Kong
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- čas přidán 15. 05. 2024
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Nowadays, it is increasingly common to discover that films believed to be shot in real-world cities were actually filmed miles away in front of a large green screen. The advancement of CGI technology has reached a point where it has become nearly impossible to distinguish between real and computer-generated environments.
VFX artists employ controlled procedural generation to craft the expansive environments seen in films. However, when they need to recreate iconic locations like New York City, a new challenge arises. Films like "King Kong" (2005) and "The Avengers" (2011) faced the task of digitally rebuilding New York, each using distinct methods that yielded varying levels of quality.
So join us as we explore the fascinating world of CGI cities.
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TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 - Intro
1:44 - Why 1930s New York Was So Hard To Create
2:39 - Creating Other CGI Cities
3:20 - WETA FX
3:38 - Why this Footage Looks so Bad
3:58 - Getting The Layout of An City The Doesn't Exist Anymore
5:52 - Adding the Details to 90,000 buildings
6:38 - CityBot - 2005's AI
8:15 - A Pretty Big Problem
8:25 - Opera
9:55 - Weathering an Entire City
10:50 - Leveraging Nature
12:09 - Finishing Touches and Why This Failed
13:32 - How The Avengers Solved All Their Problems
14:27 - The Power Of Photographs
15:30 - The UnPower Of Photographs
15:55 - Making Photographs Useful
16:50 - How To Photograph an Entire City
18:00 - How Other Films Used This Photography Method
18:26 - When Did CGI become invisible?
19:55 - How These Techniques Get Used
22:15 - Outro
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SOURCES:
dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/11...
• ILM: Behind the Magic ...
www.fxguide.com/fxfeatured/vf...
www.artofvfx.com/the-avengers...
www.studiodaily.com/2013/02/i...
www.fxguide.com/fxpodcasts/fx...
www.massivesoftware.com/news_...
www.cinemablography.org/blog/w...
www.wetafx.co.nz/research-and...
www.awn.com/vfxworld/king-kon...
web.archive.org/web/200612301...
www.awn.com/vfxworld/king-kon...
www.awn.com/vfxworld/king-kon...
www.fxguide.com/fxfeatured/x-...
www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...
www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...
www.esri.com/about/newsroom/a...
www.fxguide.com/fxfeatured/g-...
www.framestore.com/work/aveng...
• Avengers: Infinity War...
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#kingkong #theavengers #avengers #vfx #filmmaking - Krátké a kreslené filmy
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This was definitely the most technical video I’ve made in a good long while and it was both really fun, and really hard to put together - but it was great to talk about because I do really like how “simple” the Avengers solution was (and how much more effective it was), especially when you compare it to the results of the nightmarishly complex of the King Kong one 💀
But let me know what you guys think!
Finally a browser under European data protection law ⚠
you should talk about why pacific rim's CGI is some of the best looking in any movie
Sky Captain and the world of tomorrow also did 30s New York. it was in 2005 if I remember correctly.
Peter Jackson‘s King Kong might be my favorite movie of all time and the tie-in game is in my opinion one of the best shooters ever made!
Yeah but the newer ride at universal was a big letdown
Have you only seen ONE film??
@@jesperjee Yes, but nothing beats the masterpiece that is Fast Five. You’re so much smarter and better than me
@@AntivenomOWnot going to lie there are hundreds of movies better than fast five
The King Kong city didn't fail it all. All CG effects in that movie had an intentionally stylized look that meshed perfectly. I've seen this movie so many times over the years and never ever did the city distract me. It still looks impressive to this day! That comping during the dinosaur stampede however. Now THAT is distracting!
Yes yes yes. Everything is amazing and beautifull except every scene of the dinos.
I don’t even think the city is fake in Kong, even if logically it has to be. In comparison Avengers looks kinda fake even if it’s because it’s modern city and we can compare. The looks should have been a bit more “dirty”.
I dont think bro knows how drastic ICG has grown from 2005 to now. I actually find Kong MORE convincing without the overly futuristic tech and over-used nanotech nonsense in the Avengers.
Fr
because one of them actually existed, the other one could exist but we're not there yet.
King Kong looks so much better as not horribly grey and washed out.
I think you went way too harsh on King Kong just to artificially have it compete with Avengers.
the 2005 king kong did amazing with CGI NY considering the hardware limitations of the time!
I disagree that King Kong is lower-quality than The Avengers. Less realistic, sure, but much more beautiful. The city scenes in the Avengers feel kind of plastic and soulless by comparison.
That's a fair point! There's certainly an artform to King Kong's city that isn't present in the Avengers
12 year old me when watched it in theater had no idea it was all cgi, so ig they did their job well. if you are looking at them knowing they are all cgi then it's a lot easier to pixel peep.
I think a lot of that just comes down to also the differences in how NYC is today vs back in the 30s. A lot of design has just changed
While I wouldn't say Avengers scenes looked soulless, I do agree that it's unfair to say King Kong looked worse. It was meant to have am artistic style to it. It wasn't meant to look completely realistic, because no one is use to seeing 1920s in complete realism. We are use to the old fashion look of old photos. And I think Peter Jackson did a good balance between realistic and old fashion photography
The "more beautiful" aspect also include artistic vision and interpretation. King Kong might looked better because it had a strong artistic vision behind it despite technical limitations. Especially the last part of the movie. Avengers is just plain and cold photographic recreation. It was designed this way too. You weren t supposed to notice that landscape , it s meant to disappear behind the story and the characters. In Kong 1930 New york IS a character init s own way. Basically in the end it s about art direction.
King Kong was a masterpiece. Love that movie. Avengers was just different. Modern look
King Kong honestly holds up and looks much better than the very bland looking avengers.
I feel like it's a bit unfair to dunk on King Kong the way you did. They had so many restrictions and limitations working against them, that you did acknowledge. I don't think you did it with any malice obviously, but saying they just failed to make an entire city look realistic is just plain unfair. King Kong did win the Oscar for visual effects that year after all, beating out films with incredible CGI like Harry Potter 4, Batman Begins, Star Wars 3, Narnia and War of the Worlds. Idk, just saying it failed where Avengers succeeded just seems unfair to me
Yea, I see your point tbf - Maybe "failed" is a bit harsh lol 😂, but at the same time I also don't think it 100% succeeded.
Imo, it sits at that 90% success point where it looks genuinely fantastic and is a really really incredible achievement, but I was distracted enough by it throughout the film - whereas I really didn't feel that way with most The Avengers, aside from the occasional dodgy greenscreen.
Although, lots of people here are saying they think King Kong looks better which is actually surprising to me - so either its CZcams compression doing favours for Kong and not for the Avengers, general anti MCU bias, or I am just straight up wrong loool.
But either way - thank you for watching, and thank you for your thoughtful and balanced comment - It will be interesting to see which way the wind blows on this as time goes on 👍
@@CGWHY I saw both on bluray quality, and king kong still holds up much better...
"Look better " also include artistic vision and interpretation. King Kong might looked better because it had a strong artistic vision behind it despite technical limitations. Especially the last part of the movie. Avengers is just plain and cold photographic recreation. It was designed this way too. You weren t supposed to notice that landscape , it s meant to disappear behind the story and the characters. In Kong 1930 New york IS a character init s own way. Basically in the end it s about art direction.
Yup it’s like comparing someone creating a CGI head replacement of George Washington vs of Tom Cruise. With Tom you still face him for photo and or lidar scans with high quality texture images where with George Washington you have paintings. That’s about it
I think king king looks great and you don’t notice the flaws as much because of the fact kong is a little less well rendered it doesn’t make New York look bad
No one:
Wētā casually creating the next chapters of cinematographic history every time they do anything:
king kong definetly looks better. the cgi in the avengers looks grey and dead to me
I've always been impressed with the CG cities they built for the CW shows The Flash and Supergirl. Especially for their budgets
King Kong captured the soul of the era in which it depicted. Bravo for a well done explanation of the process.
King Kong at its time was the pinnacle of VFX. It was insane compared to anything else that came that year.
Imagine owning the entire New York 3D model from King Kong
Of couse PJ went to Weta. He founded it, specifically to do effects for his movies.
King Kong has a higher practical/cgi ratio. Thus is a superior technical film to the Avengers.
You covering the 2005 King Kong is Awesome, it’s a Movie i grew up with and one i Think alot of people did so too
I wonder what the specs were on those 2005 computers rendering all that, 'cause my computer is a decade old now and I don't think it could do HALF that work.
People are really forgetting what was the average PC configuration back then .King kong 2005 and pirats of the Caribbean dead man's chest are still holding really well perhaps for next 20 years. The hardware and software technologies are 1000 times better now. Apart from gaming industry we still get not so impressive visuals from movies.
Dark City, not only had to recreate a small section of a city, it had to make the buildings morph into other buildings, literally rebuilding themselves on camera. And it did it 7 years before Peter Jackson's King Kong !!
I'm sure 1998 technology meant that most of these scenes were practical effects (assisted by the fact that the city was always in darkness), and therefore unrelated to your analysis here, but sitting in the theatre, such methodologies were hardly considered as I lifted my jaw off of the theatre floor.
Sure do hope to visit Shell Beach one day though.
I thought the King Kong remake was rather well done.
Considering what they had to work with I doubt many if any could have done better.
Mind I do see 2005 onward as the decline of Cinema as everyone started using similar technologies of VFX that was poorly used by comparison that rarely delivered for the most part.
Even if have realism the execution is just as important that I think the avenger movie you mentioned just doesn't hit the mark but that's my eye.
Keep in mind I say good movies existed after king kong 2005 but my Avatar 2009 is the point CGI took over & stripped much of what made films good as to much salt spoils the broth.
I can only think of a hand full of movies from 2009 to present that was good.
I liked the P of C stranger tides movie & the sherlock movie of 2011 but think of 2010 onward & how rare a movie is that stuck with you because I find it difficult?
I'm not saying every film was bad 2010 onward but they are rare & far in-between to date.
King Kong looks better in my opinion.
No offense but even being as non biased as possible, the cgi in avengers looked way better. From textures to physics to lighting, it was consistently better. Kong (never saw the movie but from these clips) has excellent cgi at times, but looks light, plasticy, and just fake in several of the shots which I don't remember seeing in avengers (nor these clips).
@@ai_is_a_great_placeKing Kong has a more stylised look, watch the newest 4k or remastered blu-ray. The city looks amazing as the director used color grading to make the film's entire appearance akin to those older 30s and 40s films, with the higher contrast and soft bloom in a lot of scenes.
@@ai_is_a_great_place Some of the King Kong shots showcased here I think are only previews/previs. I don't think the lower quality shots are in the final film.
@@ai_is_a_great_place... "I never saw the movie" than what the hell do you know about it ☠️☠️☠️☠️
It’s right to say that using too much CGI generated objects takes up a ton of processing time but the results in King Kong are spectacular to see.
After seeing the recent marvel movie....Now I'm convinced that CGI is evolving but backwards!!
Oh hey, Gray Horsfield worked on this one! He was the one to lead all the destruction stuff on it, and I think this was his last film before he went into the games industry and worked at Valve on the Half Life 2 episodes and both Portal games.
I believe that The Matrix was actually the first movie to feature images of buildings and rooms projected as a texture on simple geometry. The bullet time scenes specifically. This was several years before Spiderman.
21:05 I thought they were staring at Kong's ass.
Great vid btw.
They successfully generated an entirety accurate metropolis, with enough detail to look at buildings up close, all from the ground up in cgi. If that’s not success I don’t know what is
Amazing video as always dude. I feel like the quality of your work, your integrity and passion would be able to get you access to interview people at weta and other FX houses.
Do you know Zorpazorp the miniature war gaming terrain CZcamsr? He’s worked directly with weta over the last 6 months or so. It would totally be worth getting in touch with him.
With all the talk about studios covering up artist’s work in behind the scenes and promo footage, videos going even one level deeper would be revolutionary. Nobody is making accessible content for casual film fans about the step by step of CGI the way they used to do for stop motion.
You could watch those and go do it yourself with enough discipline. Not that we can’t now it’s just much more complex.
An interview with an artist at Weta or Lucasfilm or even Corridor Crew showing the step by step just a little more in depth of how they build the grey buildings, attach photos and how that works at different angles without breaking would be amazing, because I was asking those questions watching this video. Others will want even need those answers too.
There’s so much talk about lost knowledge, especially with the thousands upon thousands of redundancies in the game industry right now, documenting that stuff is crucial. Especially in retrospect where they can speak openly because the movie isn’t even out yet.
BTS features for movies have really been obliterated in the digital age. Huge movies barely cover the years of work being done. You could really trailblaze a movement alongside channels like Corridor in shining a light on exactly how this stuff is done. [EDIT: I just realised Corridors new video about soldium vapour/green screen addresses this exact issue!]
Maybe patrons would allow you to make a feature exposing the blood sweat and tears behind all our favourite movies at a depth not done before regarding CGI, even teaming up with other channels to do so?
The first Godzilla/Kong movie was the first ‘fully’ CGI movie I saw as someone passionate about filmmaking that made me think, THIS is a movie that could have the effect of movies like Star Wars and Jurassic park in creating a whole new generation of artists because even though it’s photorealistic, it’s clear we’re look at entirely CGI imagery tell an amazing story, but the work is totally obscured.
I don’t know how you could fit this in a video but I’d love to see the artists at ILM talk about that shot from Solo of the Star Destroyer that so many of us couldn’t tell if it was CGI or a miniature.
Thanks for the video and all the hard work. Have a great week!
When I think of Old New York, I think of the first Fantastic Beast movie. If I remember correctly, they did like 2 stories of real sets for a couple streets and then CGI'ed the rest. Great stuff!
loved your very good breakdown, easy to follow for people like me who are not in the field while still technical enough to be compelling :)
Also i just watched The Creator (2023) and those were some of the most flawless crowd scenes with CGI integration i've ever seen if you want to talk about it some maybe :)
Kong looks best
Am I the only one that's really impressed by both film's methods. I don't get why he bashed King Kong so much. Rebuilding the entire city with CGI is fucking unbelievable. I'm impressed with King Kong for the VFX team's sheer effort and attention to detail. I'm impressed with The Avengers for the VFX team's admirable efficiency. The reason New York looks more realistic in The Avengers is because it's the real thing. They used real photography of the city. A picture will always look more realistic than a render. The stylised look of King Kong isn't a bad thing, it's a beautiful looking film despite not looking as "realistic" as The Avengers.
This is a great video! The thing that was jarring to me with King Kong wasn't even the city, it was the movement of the CGI vehicles. They have this lack of momentum and inertia that makes them look really fake. This is something still true with a lot of CGI car scenes to this day. Its like the computer wizards are great at recreating a look, but don't understand the physics.
Very Nice Video, top quality
On street level, the bottom floors of the buildings in KING KONG were actually real, the streets, physical props and all, with CGI taking over for all of the levels above. Some real restored antique cars were used, and Adrien Brody did his own driving. This is fully explained in KING KONG PETER JACKSON’S PRODUCTION DIARIES, originally posted on the KONG IS KING website and later (in 2005) released as a DVD box set.
Great video pal
I would honestly make NYC look exactly how it looked on a regular map.
Procedural doesn't necessarily mean random. It just means something that is created with a bunch of procedures or algorithms. So if you can figure out the algorithm of a city layout you can recreate that basically or a flock of birds or crowds sim.
If Weta released the Citybot software to the public it might have been a quite nice city building game.
I love the look of King Kong, but that's because I like the style. Great video, mate. First one I've seen from you and now I'll go to the Doctor Octopus one.
Cinema is Amazing Art
What game did you get this footage from? 0:32
King Kong 2005 best VFX ❤
They used the Avengers approach for the green screen backgrounds on the Matrix (1999), and it’s still photo-real today.
Thanks for the video, just a correction though, avengers released in 2012
18:28 quick maths mate😂
The commercial part of the video had me think about rewatching American psycho thx xD
This is a really well made video 👍
what about Matrix Reloaded they builed Sydney city ... plus the free way , the movie was realised in 2003 ? make a video please, thanks
King Kong looks so much better than avengers.
Escape from New York used this technique, but with printed out lictures on cardboard boxes to mimic a New York blacked out and powerless from a plane.
the New York in Avengers looks way too real it even looks better than when we see it in Endgame
PJ King Kong is honestly just a fucking beautiful movie.
Ok here is a stupid story:
Probably telling by my Pfp (which is Destoroyah from the Godzilla Franchise) I'm a huge Godzilla fan since 2016 and I remember back when I was at school and on the internet you were basically only allowed to either like Godzilla or Kong. (I know very childish but I was 11 years old) I loved Godzilla and hated King kong lol. I remember when my friend said she liked king kong more than Godzilla and I was shocked! After a while me and my dad ran out of Godzilla movies to watch and so we watched the PJ King Kong movie and MAN I tried so hard not to cry at the end. We all know what happens in King Kong it still made me really sad. Then I watched the Original and the son of Kong. 12 year old me cried so hard when Little Kong died and then the 2 human Characters flirting with eachother and the guy basically goes "you need to go back to the kitchen woman" made it so awkward 😭 I mean it was the 30's. I also find the video game verson of the PJ movie very nostalgic. I didnt even play it. I just watched gameplay. Anyway I also really love King Kong in the monsterverse.
I wish I had that CGI model of the city, then I can put it in Unreal Engine.
The John wick 3 motorcycle scene being entirely cgi is crazy to me
Did you change your name to Y Reviews for a while?
King Kong looked nothing less than Ceaser in Planet of apes.. and I am talking about the upcoming 2024 movie.. that's 19-20 years.. the team members back then were real geniuses..
PEACE BE UPON HIM! 🕊🤍🌁
Wow, did you see the avengers in 2011 - I first saw it when it came out in April 2012
So nobodys gonna talk about the products shown during the sponsored segment? 😨
Hi i just subscribed, what do you think about war of the worlds (2004) i always felt like it was the first photorealistic movie not avatar
5:24 WISE
I think Kong 2005 kinda proves that LoTR would look like Hobbit if Jackson had ability to utilize more advanced CG, and didnt have to invent half of the stuff, and he lucked out in the end, being in that sweet spot between "no CG and all CG".
bruh it looks fine
The number of comments you see in a hour!
I hope I can work at Weta or ILM, hehe... 😁😁😁
CGY cool
Are you saying that even the scenes at street level, that aren’t sets or on location are using the CGI city they built? Ground level right next to the actors and camera like 300? Even more reason to love this movie.
6:35 there was a limited set for the buildings the actors were close to but everything ground floor and up and further away was cgi
@15:09 Nice gag
10:48 HELLEIVERS 🫡🫡🫡
Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow?
Shit was being serious then I heard "Darth Gayder"
I think the only reason you are being so harsh on King Kong is the fact that you lived to see a more advanced result made on a better hardware years later in comparison. So it's a bit, to say the least, biased. I might be wrong, but I dont think there were any critiques to the realness of the city back then. But it's a good video nonetheless.
I'm here
i love getting a headache trying to imagine being in charge of the Avengers CGI team.
So you compare a production where they have to create a city of the size of New York with noticeable and known landmarks with a production that had to build a set of a street that they could reasonably change the look of because it has not to look like a special street in New York...
I learned a lot from this video. And it is incredibly fascinating and interesting, you did really well in explaining all that. But come on man. No need to compare and judge so much
Wtfff king kong has the best looking city ever i didt even notice that it was cgi like 90% of the time where we can easliy tell where the stage ends in avengers
Yeah… nah.. there are many vfx-things you can criticize in King Kong. I don’t agree that the New York scenes are among them. Look at the stampede, even back then it wasn’t receivef well. I think the New York scenes holds up better than many newer movie city extensions.
You don't see the Avengers city, one of the reasons is because it's realised in such a great matter, but the other, more important reason is that it's just plain, dull and sort of synthethic. Even with all of it's details and realism, people can still tell it's CGI. While in King Kong, the artistry of what they did with the city radiates and creates a whole atmosphere and part of the story that's in the background. There's none of that in the Avengers.
We can tell.
Prefiero al de 1933
I’m struggling to think of any examples because I usually assume 90% of backgrounds in ANY movie are CG. 😅
great video thank you! I LOVE watching VFX BTS stuff! I am a massive VFX nerd and cant get enough of this good stuff so thank you!
2012 was 12 years ago not 14
Ehh I disagree that the results in King Kong looked subpar. The whole film has a stylized look, it's not like everything looks hyper-realistic except for the city backgrounds.
And of course that choice might have been made *because* of the limitations of the CGI of the time, but it certainly stays consistent throughout the movie.
King Kong > Avengers
18:27 14 years? Are you exaggerating?
This channel could get big if you work on your writing skills a bit.
Hey thanks for watching! - I would say the writing is probably the thing I spend the most time on (besides the editing) because I really wanna get it right, so I'd really love to hear you feedback on this cause I'm always looking to improve :)
If you join the discord and shoot me a message I'd really like to hear your thoughts!
it actually doesnt look that good it would have had to use practical effects more
"We didnt use any CGI"... well we don't give a fuck then
Too looooooong video (boring).
It's only 22 minutes bruh. Short attention spans?
I've watched longer videos than this usually documentaries videos or essay videos
That movie sucked eggs
This music 👎
also gollum is one of the most ugly disgusting looking playstation one graphics monsters ever
weta is completely overhyped only thing they can recreate well is skin textures and movement just look at avatat everything look trash except the navi
🥱 Great video for people that don’t know what a collapsing wave function (invented in the 70s) is.