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RE-MODERNIZED - F-22 & F-35 vs Su-57 & J-20: BVR Missile Fight | DCS
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- čas přidán 14. 08. 2024
- We simulate a beyond visual range missile battle between the US F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning, versus China's J-20 Mighty Dragon and Russia's Su-57 Felon. This is the third time we've run this battle, each time we make small adjustments to make as real to life as we can.
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0:00 Overview
1:14 Details
5:38 Predictions
6:46 ROUND 1 (J-20 & Su-57)
15:14 ROUND 2 (F-22 & F-35)
24:13 ROUND 3 (J-20 & Su-57)
36:59 ROUND 4 (F-22 & F-35)
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#GRDogfight #DCSDogfight #F22 #Raptor #F35 #Lighting #Su57 #Felon #J20 #Dogfight #bvr #GR #DCSWorld #Aviation #AviationGaming #FlightSimulators #military
Damp deserves the people's champ title and a medal! He flew like an ace and turned a 1v3 into a win!
The F-35 can't carry AIM-9s internally due to the AIM-9 being rail-launch only, but it can carry the ASRAAM and IRIS-T internally as they are eject capable and have LOAL
How does an F22 launch AIM-9Xs from their internal bay then?
@@MoistGrundle they're rail-launched by mechanically moving the rails out of the aircraft a bit so the seeker head can look around and fire without being ejected.
Edit: czcams.com/video/kQlyd9wLN2M/video.html about 56 seconds in you can see how far the rain extends
@@MoistGrundle Doesn't the F-22 use a different system for the Sidewinder bays? I feel like a rail pops out, then it fires off the rail, rather than the ejector launch of larger missiles.
@Moist Grundle it has a dedicated rail that folds out just for the sidewinder. The f35 doesn't have that special rail
Thanks for the info y'all. A quick wiki says the F35 does carry the AIM-9X but not the IRIS-T. I know wiki isn't the most reliable, but there's that. I imagine the F35 can carry Sidewinders on its wingtips, why did they decide not to build the "internal rail," does anybody know?
That dance between J20 and F-22 is amazing..
Yea
Dude your channel is amazing....your accent on the narration, the gameplay or simulator play.....its unmatched.......found you through growling sidewinder
How did u find Cap and GR through growling sidewinder. Both channels a great but I believe GR and G.S aren't the best of friends . #SuperCap
Welcome 😊 GR is much better than GS - always unscripted
Got to keep the matches un-scripted. For the viewers.
@@grimreapers I binge watched u for two straight days last week. Amazing channel.
@Grim Reapers We love you Cap, Simba, Matrix , Sockington wockington , Bird , Fire dad , Violet , Kortana and everyone else im forgetting as I am just here to reply to a comment. Much love my friend
The new peregrine missile is supposed to cover the same distance but is half the size. So Raptor and Lightning should be able to carry twice the missiles internally soon!
But not as effective. The warheads will be times smaller in mass
@@sweatybotfn9982 Maybe? I haven't heard they're making the explosive smaller. They should be able to keep the diameter nearly the same.
@@11leonidas11 diameter the same, same range so same amount of fuel, same propulsion and same explosive density. Those few can not physically be achieved at the same time
@@sweatybotfn9982 The length of the missile is generally the largest factor when discussing burn time. If it's half the length but the fuel (or the method of burning) is twice as energy dense then distance remains the same. That's grossly over-simplifying it, but yeah.
Sock is hilarious! “I need to upgrade my social credit score so I definitely think…” 😂😂 He can be counted on to come up with many a humdinger
“I gonna pop”!! 😂😂
What does that mean？
That last f35 that blew up it looks like because the missile launched directly over a mountain. Missile dropped hit the mountain top and the shock blew up the f35
You guys are on fire! Love the amount of content you're putting out here on YT and over on Rumble! This was an amazing set of furballs! FireDad was on a major roll! Really good flying all around. Simba had some bad luck but he's still The People's Champion so he'll persevere and rock it another day!
Thanks GR
Realistically speaking, these cutting-edge 5th gen fighters most likely won't be fighting over mountainous areas. They'd be fighting in the skies above East European Plain or Western Pacific. God forbid, but these two regions are probably going to be the main theaters of WWIII.
well, realistically speaking, you can't notch or evade a 5th gen fighter, you'd have to notch and evade all of them simultaneously due to datalink, nor do they need to get nose on target to get a lock. It's a limitation of DCS
@@override367 If pilot accounts are right, notching radars and missiles hasn't been feasible for a while now since the F-15E and more modern fighters got radars with the ability to discern ground clutter or switch their frequencies to avoid the Doppler notching. For something like the F-35 that has an AESA it should be damn near impossible with the kind of freq hopping it can do, and modern missiles are using multi-modal radars with home on jam and IR seekers in conjunction with terminal radars but DCS probably will never implement such things; either too difficult, too time consuming/expensive, or it'd shatter the norms of gameplay
@@override367 True. But "fighting over mountainous areas" is not a DCS limitation.
You should stop giving hints when you're down or in spectator... only valid communication by downed pilots should be to get pilots roughly into enemy direction so they wont miss each other
Firedad and Sock were on f'n fire 🔥🔥🔥🔥 That was a hell of a match boys. 😍😍😍
Thank you for this wonderful video Grim Reapers. Great science demonstrated here. I especially liked seeing the classic clockwise "wagon wheel" air combat maneuvers in Tacview. (SEE 23:55 in this video) and the "Corkscrew maneuvers between Firedad and Damp Sock was nothing short of outstanding (SEE 51:40 in this video)
I firmly believe the Tacview in a must have for DCS as you can see what you and others do correctly and sometimes incorrectly, THAT MAKES ALL PARTICPANTS BETTER AND MAKING OURSELVES BETTER IS A GOOD GOAL IN LIFE. Again, thanks for the video.
I will never not be excited for these match-ups.
At this point, this 2v2 is basically its own series, lol.
EDIT: oh I guess it won't be a 2v2, bigger scale, I like it!!
Woohoo! Another GR video! Well, for our pilots (USA), I hope your juxtaposition of the capabilities of these aircraft and missiles are accurate.
games make Russian vehicles better because it doesnt take into account reliability of systems, and other factors such as literal lies by the Russians. but the real difference is that you cant model many of the US systems that make them almost unbeatable. the f35 especially is hyper-nerfed in dcs. like you might have heard its a quarterback of the skies. which means it can bring all the information needed to take down anything. and it is heavily integrated with other f35 and f22. we just dont see it here. where every individual plane needs to see every threat for them selves. just really not realistic. you wouldn't see anything sneak up on an f35 because it has systems that spot and identify and give the pilots a heads up at any angle, even through the airframe. games cant model these things well anymore. especially dcs.
@@yujinhikita5611 dude , are talking about a 8th gen plane or what ? Yes f35 is really good(thus countries want it) but it has its limitations and it’s radars have limitations too!!
@@AMMINUSAARNAV nope talking about 5th gen f35, they arent magic but they are damn neer the same thing at this point. but yes the f35 does have some limitations. they are just covered by other technologies the f35 has the eots which has long range visual and ir scanning it can also laze targets. the das which is a system of six infrared cameras around the aircraft can give the pilot full 360 visibility and give warnings of enemys and missiles. if the das detects a missiles or another threat the eots will automatically look in the direction it detected something and will give info about the threat the radar will also do this and do it the other way around. this includes j20 coming from below. all the information is given to the pilot through the helmet so no matter where he looks he will have all the info he needs. the radar of the f35 does not scan like the aircraft in dcs it is not a mechanicle radar. its more like an invisible laser show which can scan the full aspect of its gimbal in just a miliseconds. thats is not just a scan but practicly a lock. its also has the ability to make it hard for enemy rwr to notice(a Low-probability-of-intercept radar) a scan meaning even if the f35 can see you, you might not even get a warning. these are just a sliver of what the f35 can do. aircraft today just don't need the top speed or extreme manurvability its a waste of time and actually in some cases makes the aircraft worse (even though the f35 is more maneuverable than many think).
@@yujinhikita5611 bro wtf are u talking about...all of these aircraft is a mod and the game developer doesnt make them🤣
@@imhandsome1309 well yeah no shit, what im saying is, the real fighters cant be compared to the ones in game.
Damp pulling out the W solo was legendary
When Matrix says, "Bollix", you know he's f'd.... lol
Matrix - always the gentleman 😊
Those felons were holding the j20s back tbh, good match very entertaining
I believe Damp Sock should now replace Simba as the " People's Champ "
Damp - “CCP People’s Champ”!
If you've got tone with a modern IR weapon in open airspace - there's no way - none - that your target is escaping - modern IR missiles have pretty much 95% PK WVR unless the target can find something to hide behind. Flares have little effect. Modern missiles have AI that can "see" flares and reject them. IRIS-T and ASRAAM can even spot towed decoys.
Imagine watching a football game but instead of the camera being placed at the best angle above the 50-yard line, the camera instead is on one of the quarterback's helmets for the whole game! This is how many of the Grim Reaper's episodes are filmed. If Cap is in God mode and doesn't fly, he can see everything and can point the camera where the action is!
I believe the PL-15 actually has a range of 160nm. not that it matters for this video but for the future it could.
In truth, the SU-57 doesn’t do much but any F-35 variety is not a match for F-35 because it’s not designed as an air superiority fighter. With the new WS-15 engines J-20 can go head to head with raptors. In real time, J-20s have a tactic where they turn off all radar and communications and use KJ-500 AWACS to roam or lock enemy jets. Using the tactic: missile is guided by something you can see but is out of your range
J-20 not have a machine gun !
@@n3b954 of course not, there’s no use
Well done Sock!! Hero of the freaking day!
30 seconds in and I'm hoping you updated the F-35 to be closer to its real flight model and abilities. We'll see......
7 minutes in and I've already been let down. The J-20 is almost as maneuverable as the F-22, but not the F-35? Have you not seen F-35's at air shows recently after the restrictions were lifted and flight system upgraded? It's a great dogfighter now. Even without HOBS it holds its own now.
@@MrVanderchevy18 the su-57 model is hilarious, the new version(which CubanAce is currently making) even more so... expect overmodeling^1000 when thats out
@@zahnatom He's mentioned before that he's aware the Felon's vectoring doesn't seem to have enough inertia (reacts instantly rather than taking time to counteract momentum) so I assume things should get better. Not sure about any other problems with it, the turn radii and Gs at lower speeds is fairly realistic given its large aero surface afaik
@@forzaelite1248 what i mean is that they model the felon based off of propaganda pieces which describe it as basically the best thing ever and something that can absolutely clown on the f-35 and kill the f-22 before the f-22 gets to see the su-57 on radar
I want to ask if you gonna have link to your more realistic versions of mods like f22, f35 etc. ? Also maybe it was updated but su 57 has one big advantage in dogfight and that is if you use air brakes plane can spin like 20 G so that needs to be reworked or dont use it because you can spin like sonic with it.
Yea it may be able to do that but it will only be able to do it once due to how much speed it would bleed and after it would be a sitting duck if it missed
Also the pilot will be a pulpy puddle at 20g...
Can the 57 fire a missile at an enemy behind it like the 35?
@@dougaltman6398 no the SU-57 is far behind the F-22 not to mention the F-35
@@dominiksoukal The Su-57 lags behind both aircraft, but technology is not the reason, considering Russia has aircraft that can fire at a target that is behind.them.
The tactics used here, with cap in the 22 being high with others low, is exactly how theyre planned to be used in an engagement
when technology advances so much that we are back to using old school tactics...
Same happened with trench warfare. ATGMs have made Armored vehicles vulnerable, so now infantry, in this case Russian forces, are forced to do minimally supported assaults on trenches, Somme style.
When countermeasures and defensive weapons become far more powerful than offensive weapons, technology goes bye bye and it returns to the nature of war, face to face killing.
@@boydrobertson2362 when one thing advances, the counter to that also advances like what we can see with tank armor and anti tank shells. armor is more powerful, anti tank shell advances then armor catches up then anti tank shells advance and so on
@@OscarZheng50 Not exactly, every once in a while, countermeasures fall too far behind of a new counter measure is too expensive. We can stop anti-tank shells and ATGMs with active protection systems, but they are extremely expensive.
@@boydrobertson2362 APS are used to stop anti tank missiles, they can react quick enough to stop anti tank shells. The only way to stop shells as of right now is to upgrade the armor. Explosive reactive armor is no longer effective at stopping anti tank shells and nor is the Abram's depleted uranium armor which is now starting to become outdated as russia starts fielding its own depleted uranium anti tank shells
An interesting take on this to see how much the stealth matters, how about a GCI that is basically in spectator and sees the stealth planes real time, however there is no datalink support, meaning the "weakness" is what he / she can convey with words.
Will that be enough to mitigate the stealth in a hectic fight?
AIM9X hung on the f35 (only an external option) should have more of an effect on the RCS.
They have special versions for the F-35 that have a reduced RCS so probably not
@@ShawnHinck
standard aim9x on a slightly canted pylon. RCS signature would be affected
@@johnaikema1055 but the F-35 isn’t carrying standard AIM-9Xs though….
@@ShawnHinck
yes it is.
the most recent aim9x has some square sides that partially cover the normally round length of the body...but that coverage is only partial. add the round sensor cone and the RCS will be affected.
the pylons were designed to reduce pylon signature, but will cause bounce and scattering which will also increase the RCS.
an f35 with a irst loadout will likely triple detection range at the least.
the f22 has internal side mounted rails that pop out when the rust is fired.
the f35 was originally supposed to have internal irst, but heat issues caused the seeker heads to malfunction so the plan was scraped.
@@johnaikema1055 and yet F-35 pilots have said that they aren’t using standard AIM-9s….
Great work! Exceptionally entertaining👍👍
Talk to me when you get trust vectoring working on ma f22 baby
@ 24:05 after seeing the Felon model fail to pull negative g's and watching it not even allowing missiles to track or gun lead to work, Cap comes to the conclusion that "better tactics won"... lol this guy is unreal.
Hell of a dog fight. Great job guys
3rd time the same uneaven battle
And I am still exited for it
That was awesome at the end
RCS measured by looking at photos?
BTW, Su-57 doesn't carry R-77-1 internally, only R-77Ms fit there
Они ебанутые, Р-77-1 несет,но только не в таком количестве как Р-77М
The f-35 can carry AIM-9x3 which has LO coating on it to reduce signature. Also the wingtip launchers on f-35 are painted/coated the same as the body
Ракеты все равно будут увеличтвать RCS кратно
Yes, but not inside internal bay
Do launching flares as IR decoys EVER work in game???
I can’t remember ever seeing flares (or chaff for that matter) EVER defeat an incoming missile in DCS.
I can say for sure that countermeasures work... saved my ass a thousand times.
Flares have practically no effect on IRIS-T and ASRAAM - flare rejection is superb - AIM-9 is slightly behind but still very good for flare rejection. Of course the type of flares carried by F-22 and F-35 don't operate in the visible spectrum.
There was some great merges at the end there. awesome
In no universe does the J-20 have the same stealth capabilities of the F-35. It's almost certainly the least stealthy of the bunch. Any expert, not of Chinese origin, that's taken a look at the J-20 has said it's observability is much too high for a true stealth aircraft, even without the Canards. Even higher than the SU-57.
Also, the J-20 suffers from inadequate engines, which would severely cripple it's ability to dogfight against 5th gen. No way it's as maneuverable as any other 5th gen. It's a penis shaped plane for a reason 🤣
Another thing, the F-35 is stated by every pilot who's flown it to be better in circle fights than the F-16. It only regularly loses to the F-22 in dogfights according to every testimony given by it's pilots, and the simulations run with it. It can 100% keep up with a Felon or a J-20 in a merge. And is very much a threat.
It's radar is also laughably more powerful than any of the others. It will see Russia and China's planes when they're still 50 miles out from their runway.
Also, don't forget that the F-35 has 360° firing capability. You're not safe from it at any angle, because it can fire at any target in any direction, even directly behind it.
every OSINT modelling done for the J20 puts it roughly on the same level as the F35 for frontal RCS. And that is proven with computer modelling. The only refuge you have is to claim the F35 has some super secret stealth coating, which considering china has basically hacked every piece of data on the F35 over the past 15 years, I doubt is a secret anymore.
😂😂
Nope the j20 is notably more stealthier than the su57. You can see it in mockup RCS simulations done by Australian Airpower, its less detectable than its Russian counterparts.
The fans are definitely wrong, the sidewinders can only be carried on external pylons, however they have special versions that are a lower RCS than the standard AIM-9X.
i think the key is that both f22 and f35 were designed to data link with others, including with f15s and 16/18s. I'm not sure if both Russia and China has even the capacity to do that yet.
Not the f-22
Haven't seen the others, but looking forward to this video
Murica! Such a good fight
Excellent performance by all Reapers today !
He was right about that firedad sequence at the end slow it down and look at it. Ol boy was goin ape in that j20 and firedad was glued. stuck on him.
Great video as always! Any chance we can get a time on target mission again? Feels like it’s been awhile. Thanks for your content!
the felon is fine and all, but if this happened in real life it would leave russia with only 25% of its felons
Joystick arrived today, bought the F/A-18C to stand in for the CF-118.
Cap, you're right. F-35 can't carry AIM-9X internally. AIM-9X can only ignite while it's still on the launch rail. It cannot be ejected, then ignite (which is how F-35 launch AIM-120). UK tried to intergrate IR missile for internal carriage, but the plan got cancelled. While the US never bothered.
People speculate/fantasize all the time, Cap. You should've done some research before listening to them.
they actualy bothered tho, the aim9x block3(i think) has loal and was made with internal missile bays in mind. tho i dont know how that program is going.
@@yujinhikita5611 AIM-9X Block III program got cancelled in 2016.
Thanks. Should have stuck to my guns.
I love these!! BUT I don’t see how it’s fair if once you crash or get shot down, you can go into god mode see all and GCI. Unless the other side is too then smalls fair in love and war. 🤔
Cap's motto: If you can't win by flying.....cheat.
@@edwardhugus2772 Correction:
Cap's motto: If you're winning, you're not cheating.
@@xenaguy01 Agreed!
We have strict rules about who you can GCI the person to. I may have been a bit naughty in this one.
@@grimreapers _"... I may have been a bit naughty ..."_
😄😆😅😂🤣
So regarding the aim-9x / F-35 situation, from what i've heard the F-35 doesn't and will not be able to carry aim-9x's internally (even with 'sidekick') instead having the option to externally mount a modified version called the aim-9x block II+ (plus) that is stealthier than previous versions of the sidewinder. The reason for this being the lack of ignition system onboard the missile itself, instead relying on the launch-aircraft to start its motor which means that you can't just release the missile and delay ignition like with the aim-120 AMRAAM making the aim-9 harder to integrate. Whilst it's not impossible for the F-35 to carry sidewinders in it's internal weapons bay IN THE FUTURE, it's not something we'll see any time soon (atleast as I've understood things).
Seems like a lot of work, thank you 😊
I love your channel...perfect lunch break content
Can you use the longrange IR Missils for the SU57?
Indeed, a big advantage - if only the Europeans would built METEROR with the ASRAAM seeker.
For five minutes, Simba!
Can you make the canards of the J-20 working?? The J-20 should be mutch more nimble.
Crazy we aren't making more Raptors but probably because something even better in the works ;)
realistically its a cost issue. F22s have stealth coatings that cost an arm and a leg to maintain.
I'm Diggin da vidz CAP!! keep'em coming yo!! ;)
Hi Ello x
@@grimreapers 🛩
Cap like your videos, they're always lots of fun. My only gripe is giving the baddies the same radar as the U.S. aircraft. Sorry cap but that's just not true. Both the F-22 and the F-35 have better radars than either the Russians or the Chinese.
So, F-22 has a better radar than Su-57? Any proof?
@@user-qn3xu5ee3t I'm curious about that myself.
@@user-qn3xu5ee3t OK comrade. The Su-57’s radar has 1,552 T/R modules which makes it smaller than both F-22 (~2,000 TRMs) and F-35’s radar (~1,676 TRMs) but that’s just tip of the ice berg. The N036 is Russia’s first generation AESA radar along with Zhuk-AM on Mig-35 compared to 3rd gen. APG-77v1 and APG-81 on F-22 & F-35. This is because US had 20 years head start in operational AESA radars on Fighters, with the F-15C receiving APG-63v(2) in 2000. The disparity in technology is large enough to be visible in their antenna design. The N036 on Su-57 uses a slotted antenna. Whereas APG-77 and APG-81 have notch antenna. In fact, this is the case with all American AESA radars on legacy aircraft today (APG-83, APG-82, APG-79). Another problem for Su-57 is that it doesn’t have LPI (tightly focused) datalinks like MADL (F-35) or IFDL (F-22). So you can’t have multiple Su-57 sharing L402 data without increasing their RF signature. This isn’t a big deal when facing 4th gen. platforms but if your opponent is a F-22 or F-35, then you might as well be using the radar. This is a big problem for PLAAF’s J-20 as well.
There's much more I could say but this is already getting way to long.
@@user-qn3xu5ee3t well the SU-57 doesn't even have the engines it's supoused to have so you are the one who should provide proof.
@@forMacguyver I'd like you to continue, this is very interesting to read about.
Great Fighting Guys!!!
I’ve been told by numerous sources that Russia’s SU 57 really only counts as a 4 1/2 GEN
That's what I heard. Its something to do with outlets of the jet engines allow it to show up on radar.
I've been told by numerous sources that F-35 is worse than MiG-21 so it's 2nd gen
@@user-qn3xu5ee3t nah a f35 could probably take on any fighter going at the moment. Alot of countries just don't wanna admit it.
Any fighter can. With different chances of success
F-35 isn't that great in terms of acceleration (correcrion, not great at all) and speed so it needs to Come closer to the enemy to launch a missile. Since modern radars can detect low observable fighters at about 100km... Well, F-35 will be detected in time, and without stealth it's just a poor airframe with great avionics
@@user-qn3xu5ee3t the f35 is a different 5 generation, it’s the new days f14 tomb
Just a heads up. By 2025 NASAMS will have the new AMRAAM-ER Missile with a max altitude of 25 km, max range of 50 km and max speed of Mach 4+. The AMRAAM-ER uses a ESSM rocket motor and booster coupled to a AMRAAM C7 seeker head. It is also possible that the new AMRAAM-AXE will be in service by then with a greatly increased range, speed and battery life. The exact specs of the AXE are still classified though. Just speculation but my guess is that the AXE version launched from NASAMS will have a max altitude around 30km, range in excess of 100km and speed of Mach 5. (Low hypersonic) Information from Raytheon, Aviation Week and Defense News.
Just to be clear fellow viewingtons, none of you really know how good these planes’ radars are, stop being know-it-alls.
Good fun!
F-35 after the current run is getting an awesome upgrade. Next Gen 35 will increase from 4 to 6 missiles and will be able to carry the U.K. meteor missile.
Better Data-sharing capabilities, and system takeover capabilities as well. Better electronic warfare systems, with the ability to literally fry an enemy jets systems without firing a shot.
Better engine, and new munitions capabilities as well (AIM-260 and LARASM's)
It's gonna be even more of a monster than it already is
Round 3 the last guy was amazing
Look , my Indian ears couldn’t hear the name of campaign that was said at last , can someone tell me ? Please !
7:00 I predict: This relatively even dogfight scenario will depend less on the aircraft, and more on pilot skill.
Also: Doesn't the Sidewinder-type IR seeker need to "see" the enemy prior to being fired? And wouldn't that make it rail only for the F-35?
15:00 Boy, was I ever wrong!
All dogfights are more dependent on pilot skill and luck due to their nature, a single slip up or misjudgement can cost the fight. IR missiles that have lock-on after launch and datalink can essentially be fired like an AMRAAM except the pitbull section is an IR system, it's how the F-35 uses the DAS to cue up AMRAAMs and ASRAAMs internally.
WTF wouldn’t you put a F35 high(superior radar with less Vis). Send your gunfighters(F22) in and let your “AWACS” keep them tracked? Love your stuff! 🇨🇦 Veteran
Keep the following in mind (TL;DR: there are game+mod limitations that make it mostly the same):
1) GR/DCS do not have the F-35 sensor fusion modeled. There are issues with non-AWACS aircraft guiding other aircraft's missiles. (It's possible GR has worked around this? I'm not sure to be honest. I don't know if it's as simple as marking the F-35 with an 'AWACS' flag, or if there's game code that prevents them from doing that.)
2) All of these planes are modeled with the same radar. This means the in-game F-35 radar is not superior as it should be. (DCS does not support AESA radars - GR has created an 'AESA Analogue' radar using the non-AESA radar algorithms that ED already has in the game. They apply this I-can't-believe-it's-not-AESA to each of the planes that have AESA IRL, because the differences between them are things they can't easily model.)
3) The aircraft have the same RCS from all angles, because DCS doesn't support anything more. For example, the IRL J-20 seems to be designed for frontal stealth only (not a stealth guru, just repeating what I've heard) but in-game GR has taken an approximate average RCS for each plane and used that as the single RCS for that plane.
You can see the details of points 2 and 3 starting at 1:15 in the video. Despite this I do still agree the F-35 going high would make more sense since it's less maneuverable than an F-22, though!
You better get this right.
please tell me you're adding the yf-23 to this mix so I can have what I always dreamt of as a child... "5th gen stealth face off" .... So long as the fb-22 model is on the way... lol
Why does Cap refuse to use the Su-57s EOS? Neither the F-22 nor the F-35 are particulary stealthy in IR-terms (like any other current fighter aircraft)
Both the F22 and especially the F35 have significant IR reducing features. Both engine nozzles are built to reduce IR cross-section and the F35 has an active leading edge wing cooling system.
@@jonathanpfeffer3716 i doubt that these are very effective if the afterburners are lit. Hot gas is hot gas. Besides all IR reduction, the detection range of a FLIR will be much higher than that of a Radar when searching for an Raptor or Lightning.
well the f35 has a better ir detection system and its even 360 degree, but its not modeled in dcs. also the f35 and f22 have way better ir reduction than the su57 and probably the j20. but yes having afterburner on will make you a much more visible target. tho there is a reason the us stopped having ir on their aircraft. its just not really that much more usefull than just using the radar, in every scenario. which in real life the us radars are much better than the russian radars, not just in range but in all forms of reliability and eccm. also not modeled in game. the f35 has the biggest advantage in real life, because of its hyper situational awareness. but it just cant be modeled very well in games.
@@TADE97 IR detection range is greatly affected by atmospheric conditions, predicting a realistic general range for them isn’t possible. It might detect an F22 or an F35 at further ranges than their radar or it might not. If atmospheric conditions are clear and dry, then it still is highly dependent on the observed aspect but generally the range will be higher than a comparable fighter mounted radar.
And no, aircraft are not cool when they use their afterburners. That’s pretty obvious.
What does "nil power" mean? Google isn't yielding a result
when you set the RCS of the f22 to .0001 is it actually calculating the rcs from different angles or is it .0001 from all angles in DCS
thats the biggest flaw with RCS modelling in DCS. it assumes every plane is a metal sphere.
@@hughmungus2760 i see, than it would be nice to calculate the average RCS of a plane and take that numer instead of the lowest RCS value, i am sure there are ppl who could do it ( not me xD ), then you could come closer to a more representative sim than this one, i mean its entertaining and well done as allways but its not acurate
RCS F-22=0.2m2 not 0.0001m2
@@BBCRF is that the average RCS? if so would be nice to get the stats for F 35, J20 and su 57 too
@@pizzaboy9006 ну так автор видео тупой и не понимает этого. Говорит какой то бред по типу того что RCS F/A-18 0.1м2 хотя это абсолютный бред RCS BGM-109=0.1--0.2м2
good one.
How can you download the J20? The old chinese pack you covered its useless now sadly...
SOCK YOU FUCKING LEGEND
Hello, Cap, the video is perfect, but now, can you tell what is the real RCS of the SU57, I don't think that the SU57 has the RCS around 0.1m2, but on the previous video I saw there was an RCS model created on the SU57 that you were saying which it has the RCS around 0.06m2, it makes some sense, even that I saw it on the video, and it was very interesting to see it, but i don't think that the SU57 it has the RCS around 0.1m2, so Cap, can you tell/changes the real RCS of the SU57. And please tell it.
Su-57 service version(as modelled by guys in Malaysia):
non-RAM coating with IRST closed - 0.06m²
non-RAM coating with IRST open - 0.17m²
RAM(5 places) coating with IRST closed - 0.007m²
RAM(5 places) coating with IRST open - 0.017m²
This one made me a little nauseated. Not good with G's. I avoid rides at amusement parks. Got used to sea sickness though.
Could you give the links for the aircraft in the video please. Apart from the f22 I can't find any of these. Thanks and keep up the great quality content!
Should all be in here: czcams.com/play/PL3kOAM2N1YJcbzwU5FCo0DRmCdF3owO1o.html
@Grim Reapers thanks greatly appreciated, and thanks for being one of the top youtubers who care about their community.
Wew, J-20 vs Last Sky Emperor F-22 😮
Btw, is there any submarines mode ? Modern submarine i mean
Apparently no unfortunately
Hello, Cap, can you change the RCS of SU57, when I saw your previous video of SU57 vs Euro fighter typhoon, there was a comment that i saw, you're were saying that the SU57 RCS is around 0.01m2, but you didn't change it. Can you change the RCS of SU57.
SU-57 is nowhere as stealthy sa shown in the video. Why reduce it then? It's RCS is more similar to a clean Super hornet or Rafale then any 5th gen.
@Galucius hey, idiot that article is outdated, who told you by an idiot person, even that SU57 is a stealth plane which has stealth features and capabilities, while F/A 18 is a standard aircraft that doesn't have stealth characteristics at all, while SU57 has it, even that the SU57 has radar blockers with inlet guide vanes that half blocks the fan blade of the intake as well as it has RAM coating, so try to made a idiot and pathetic comment that you have written. Even that the article you see on SU57 is outdated and it was released on 2010 which is 13 years old, who is gonna take that old outdated article, Which is you're an already idiot who doesn't know to tell anything and rather saying stupid words.
@Galucius whaaoo, it means you already an stupid and lunatic person, even that SU57 is a stealth plane it has stealth features as well as Stealth capabilities, while F/A 18 or rafale is a standard plane, that doesn't have stealth characteristics. Which is totally different compared to the stealth plane. So don't write any kind of stupid and pathetic words that you have written on it.
Whaoo, it means that you are already an stupid and lunatic person, even that the SU57 is a stealth plane, it has stealth features and capabilities. While the F/A 18 and rafale is a standard plane, and it doesn't have stealth characteristics at all.
So don't write any kind of stupid and pathetic words that you have written on it. Even that you already an illiterate stupid person.
@@dominiksoukal That was a previous models that had the RCS of a clean Hornet. The Updated Su-57 has a lower RCS.
Very entertaining
Is thrust vectoring modeled for the f22? It seems like it’s lumbering more than it would be in real life
Neg
Raptor ACS is nuts!
All his videos are nonsense
Let’s go!
HI Cap and GR Team - Been trying to get ahold of you for some time now! I got DCS, new computer, Winwing setup etc, but I am struggling with controls setup and I have watched every video and still can't figure it out. Whats the best way to get in touch with you for help.
Good lord, it is not complicated.
Go to chucks guides and read the flight manuals that come with the modules. It takes time to learn
This vid shows how to get into the GR DCS training server and speak to guys, may help? czcams.com/video/Z_tR7H7hu5o/video.html
Why such battle always chosen to be south Argentina?
Where can I download your updated versions of these jets?
F22 cockpit! Like there is no cockpit other than data display
J-20 is not that manueverable, also, the AIM-9X cannot be mounted internally one an F-35, it needs a rail launch, when the F-22 fires it it has arms holding it out from the internal carriage
The J-20 behaves a lot like the tomcat... she is an absolute whale if you try to turn while too fast or too slow.... but if you can manage your speed she will absolutely dance for you...
@@dampsok That is without counting the thrust vectoring that the new engines will give it.
If we are to believe what the PLA said, it's apparently as manueverable as a j10 (around the ball park of a Saab Gripen)
25:58 then 27:18 HAHAHAHA worry about your own backyard CaP
download links for the mods?
Will you ever make the f35 protection system
Don;t think we can.
Damp - “CCP Peoples Champ”! Awesome flying 😊
I think you should try mixing up the jet combos. Try a team of f-35 and j20a team of F-22 and su57 excetera. Maybe you could pin down the weakest link mixing them up like that
Someone reply to me when the yf-23 mod comes out
Su57 RCS is modeled incorrectly compared to the other aircraft. The 0.1m^2 figure is the average RCS of the T-50 prototype. Whilst this still could be used for the Su57 (we don't know the real numbers), it is unfair to pin the average RCS value to the lowest possible value on the American fighters. The representative average RCS of the F35 and F22, should they be modeled to the same standard as the Su57, would be around 0.06-0.01m^2. Still much improved compared to the Su57, but the difference is less drastic (6-10x vs 100-1000x).
This is just due to the fact the US and Lockheed release the lowest number instead of the average (a bit to forward propaganda, but mainly to bolster the reputation of the aircraft).
Any chance these more realistic MOD alteration file might be shared - or is this vid for voyeur purposes only ?
I did plan to share them publicly but i've pretty much given up. Can barely even keep them working just for GR's use, let alone figuring out how to get them working on 1000 PC's.