Ventrac 4500Y VS 4500Z Power Test!
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- čas přidán 1. 10. 2022
- This video I put the Ventrac 4500Y with the Kubota 25 HP diesel up against the 4500Z with the Kubota 32.5 HP Gas. I did some test to see how much more faster the 4500Z would cut vs the 4500Y. The diesel still really impresses me. I hope this video helps anybody who can not decide what engine to choose.
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You have clearly put a LOT of effort to bring us this video and others. Thank you!
Prefer no music. It’s like a commercial but thanks for doing the video. Gas has an advantage with all the emissions rules coming out.
For me, the diesel is the more dependable and easier to work on. I'm pretty sure the gas engine will need replacing about the time I get around to adjusting the valves on the diesel. I actually think gas engines are allergic to me. Damned if I can find a diesel weed eater though. Great video friend!
Nice work! Got to love that diesel. I know a lot of work went into that video so kudos for putting it together. Thanks.
You’ve put stellar effort in making these cool videos
Definitely a lot of work; good job sir!
I demoed a 4520Y with a 60in deck. It was absolutely gutless compared to my Steiener 450 diesel. All I had to do was say the word hill and it bogged down to the point I'd have to slow to 1-2mph.
But in the end, I will say the Ventrac was more comfortable and agile to operate.
Great job on the video!!!
Thanks for the test
Your welcome
Great video!
Thanks
Ive seen some videos of people complain about the diesel not having enough power, BUT the fuel consumption is far better in return. Plus for large properties with other tractors/equipment they get their diesel delivered so its more convenient.
I love my 4500Y. I know the math/science don’t add up, but I feel the Y has more power. Great video thanks for taking the time to make it.
I think people underestimate the diesel. It will bog down under a heavy load, But it just keeps working and cutting. The gas is more powerful, But I feel the diesel is mot as bad as what some people claim it is. I think it does just fine.
@@steiger256 Which engine will still be running in 20 years, or with the least amount of repairs? That would be one huge decision maker there as to which engine to get. Which one is easier to do regular maintenance on? Not necessarily which one is cheaper to perform the maintenance on but which one is easier to maintain? A lot of people do their own regular maintenance which to me would play a big role in which engine option to choose.
I have a Kubota BX2680 sub-compact tractor, its very easy to get to everything for servicing, oil/filters aren't expensive, but they're not exactly cheap either....but I change the engine oil/filter once a year regardless of hours...Kubota says like 200 hours between oil/filter changes...it would take like 4-5 years to put that many hours on my tractor, so I follow the same annual maintenance schedule as I do for my lawn tractor...oil/filters are a heck of a lot cheaper than replacing an engine or replacing the tractor LOL.
Great video! Demo a large snowblower see which one can handle the most snow... in inches.... hope you can do this.... only if you get snow in your area!!!! Thanks...🙂🤔✌🙏
If I can get ahold of a blower and anther Z I will try.
50 ft-lbs (gas) Vs 42 ft-lbs (diesel). Diesel costs more and gels up in the winter, gas doesn't. I say the gas is the winner. But, you showed they are basically the same, except you can eat dinner 20 seconds earlier if you have a diesel. Good test, thanks for your time.
You can eat dinner 20 seconds earlier 😂
Idk with these tractors but i know in the ones ive had my diesel seemed to last longer on a tank compared to my similarly powered gas
Diesel only gels up if you don't properly treat it...I can go farther on a tank of diesel VS a tank of gas...high HP gas engines on small equipment sucks down the fuel, a diesel engine doesn't seem to do so nearly as bad.
To keep the gas engine running properly I have to run non-ethanol fuel at about $5/gal. Diesel is about the same cost if you get road diesel, its about 15-20 cents a gallon cheaper if you get the offroad/dyed stuff which I don't care to run through my equipment, and I'm not a farmer or rancher so I can't run that dyed stuff anyhow.
I add a fuel treatment to it throughout the year so its always winter ready regardless. The bottle of fuel treatment will treat a 5 gallon jug of fuel 4-5 times, at $15 a bottle.
Buy whichever one best suits what you have around. If you have a lot of diesel machines, buy the Diesel. If not, buy the Gas.
Z wasn’t pushed as hard as the Y I will say that 100%. I wasn’t expecting to see ~30% more power on paper to make such a noticeable amount in real life.
Also note Ventrac should sponsor or compensate you for this video! Job well done!
Disclaimer. I don’t have either version of a 4250 so zero engine bias from me. I have an old 4231 lol I could just Notice the Y had lot more rpm while mowing compared to Z.
@@hamwallet7069 It was a really fun and interesting test. When I was on the gas model the rpms would drop, but not at a rate where you could really tell. When I was on the diesel when it would start to lose rpms you could really hear it. I was pushing the gas just as hard, but it did not sound like it. When I did these test I thought for sure the gas blew the diesel away. Once I ran the times I could not believe it. I have noticed with the diesel is you can lug it to 3000 and as low as 2800 ram and it chugs right along. I will note after playing with both machines the Z would make the belts squeal. When I was really working the tough cut on the Y it would lug the engine, But it would not make the belts slip. I was impressed on the results. Both engines are great, I just wanted to see what they would do. I would like to do some tests on a P model with the Kawasaki next year.
@@steiger256 wasn’t saying that you had any agenda by doing such either. End of the day it’s not your machine and even if said owner does say “give it the beans” there’s always that voice that can’t get yourself to do it. Great test all in all, like I said they shoulda sponsored your videos, it’s what they should be doing. Glad to have someone like you for doing it also dabble in garden tractors too lol JD 112 (soon to be sold) and a CC 106!
@@hamwallet7069 I have too many garden tractors and too little time. I like the old 110, 112 and 140 JD garden tractors. They have a classic look to them. As for being sponsored it would be cool, But then I would feel like I had to make more videos. I just do these in my spare time for fun. I like using CZcams to research things so that is what im trying to do here. This video hopefully will help sombody decide if the diesel is powerful enough for them. There may be a few months I dont post anything then the next month I post 10 videos. Glad you enjoy them it is a lot of work putting some of these together.
@@steiger256 I’m saying they coulda sponsored the video, not you. It’s common for companies to sponsor a video, but not the content creator.
Hi sorry to bother you I do have a question I noticed you’re only really did mowing lawns and weed Cutting what about if you did the same thing to the both both machines in snow with a broom with a snowblower with a blade what would your opinion be then? TYSM Chris
I honestly believe with a blade and broom both machines would do the same. With a blade you will lose traction before you would lose power. The broom I am not sure on. I have used them years ago, But I do not recall them using lots of power. I have been curious myself on the snowblower. I am wanting to try to get a snowblower this winter to test out the power of the diesel with it to see how it performs. If I could get a 4500Z to do a comparison that would be nice, But not sure if that will happen. I will see what I can do. If I can get a 4500Z I will try to do a winter power test as well.
@@steiger256 OK awesome thank you so much for your reply and if you find out can you write me back I just want to make the right purchase … Chris
Curious how the numbers might change when the D902k comes to play. I know it’s the same overall HP, but curious how the improved torque curve at lower RPM’s might affect how it bogs down and recovers
I am curious on how the new D902K will handle it as well. It claims to eliminate black smoke, so I am not sure what it will do under a heavy load. The one thing with the 902K it I am sure you will not be able to add a turbo due to being electronic there is no easy way to turn up the fuel. That is for someone who would want to add one.
@@steiger256 yeah, I thought of the whole turbo issue as well. Only thing I can think of is that the dealers that support these kits will have the means to plug into the engines and tweak things, seeing as they’d probably need something to hook up to and troubleshoot issues on these new engines anyways. As of right now, Kubota touts the system as having an “electronically controlled injection that differs from conventional electronically controlled governors”. Curious how much these might raise the price on both Ventrac’s and Steiner’s diesel models
@@keystoneraillink2110 I am curious on price as well. They say the new D902K will be out in Dec of this year. Thats Kubota saying that not Ventrac. If the new D902K gets droped in the 4520Y next year I am going to try to get my hands on one to do a review and test. I would really like to see this new diesel in action. Never know it may have lots more power being electronicly controled.
@@steiger256 true that. If things play out to where you can get your hands on one, I greatly look forward to seeing the results. Keep up the good work!
Even though the gas engine is rated at higher torque; it may have been dyno'd at a higher rpm than the diesel. The diesel shows more useful torque available at the working rpm when one is mowing. I 'spect the diesel uses much less fuel than the gas.
c15, lets do it
It will be better if the diesel was Turbo
Did you notice on your own unit, the 4500Y, that it developed more power as it broke in and got a few hours on it?
Yes I did. This was another factor on why I waited to do this video. I was going to do it last year, But I wanted to get some hours on the tractor first. My dealer did tell me that once you get a few hundred hours on it that is seems to get more power. I feel they were correct. I definitely could notice it the more I used it. It is not like adding 10 HP, But it is enough to make a small difference.
I've been using Steiners since the early 80's. Had just about every engine at one time or another. Preference has always been Kubota liquid cooled gas or diesel. Getting ready to make the switch to Ventrac. I love the fuel economy of the diesel and the power in my Steiner 450. Demoed a 4520Y and it was way underpowered. But I will say the Ventrac deck uses a lot more power. Even noticed it with my Steiner 450 and the Ventrac deck. However the Ventrac deck is a way better unit, especially quality of cut. Don't really think anyone can go wrong with either Kubota option.
@@buddyfoll8341 The new MS series Ventrac decks come standard with high lift blades. I am pretty sure the Steiner still runs standard lift blades. High lift takes a little more power and uses a little more fuel. When I bought my Steiner and mowed with it for the first time I was upset. I went to my dealer and said this thing windrows terribly. I said it won't throw grass 2 feet. He explained that it comes with standard lift. I purchased 2 sets of high lift and gave the standards away. It made a big difference on cut quality. The new MS series Ventrac decks are amazing. I went to my dealer to purchase the new Ventrac deck for my 430 because I liked it so much. Ended up with a whole new machine to go with it. Glad I did. I love my Ventrac.
Why does the Kubota Gas engine sound more like a diesel than the diesel lol?
I think the Kubota gas sounds like a old Farmall M. It has a good deep sound to it.
@@steiger256 Your right, for having only a displacement of about 1.3l, it does have a nice deep tone to it.
I love my gas unit. She's thirsty... but it's MUCH easier to mow slopes without losing RPM. It's also considerably more quiet. Granted, it's an old 31hp 4200... but they weigh and handle about the same.
For climbing hills torque is better than hp and for torque diesel devours gasoline engines. Also the diesel is more efficient, uses less fuel and is more reliable and longer lasting
@@norwegiannationalist7678 - power is power. Period. Torque is only part of the equation.
@norwegiannationalist7678 - diesel is great... when 24hp can serve the puprose.... but in applications where productivity is more important, the gas engine provides a near 30% advantage in productivity. Also, more power helps the hydrostatic drives last longer, when operated properly.
@@driverjamescopeland When doing heavy work, Torque is king. There is a reason all heavy equipment that does all the work are powered by diesel engines. Your concern about productivity and hydrostatic drives is a false one that makes no sense at all.
@norwegiannationalist7678 - the reasons heavy equipment is powered by diesel are economy, durability, and duty cycle.
Here's a question: If I have engine capable of producing 5,252lb-ft of torque at 1RPM, how much horsepower is it capable of? The answer is 1... one horsepower. Now, with that POWER, torque can be multiplied via gearing as needed... but the POWER will ALWAYS be one (1) horsepower. Your productivity will ALWAYS be limited by the amount of available POWER. End of discussion.
With regard to gasoline vs. diesel... the current engine choices for a Ventrac are a 24.5hp diesel (anything larger requires exhaust treatment), and a 32hp EFI gas. Yes, the diesel is more fuel efficient, more durable, and has a longer duty cycle... but it's also more prone to lose RPM under load, has 30% less workload capacity, and will ALWAYS be 30% less capable in terms of productivity.
Which machine used more fuel?
The gas used more fuel.
Gas is usually got more power!
if you arent gonna keep it long, then gas is fine,,,,id hate to pay the price for the diesel, only to have it allll wear out and rust and still the engine be new thirty years down the road
The gas engine is just as durable however it runs much higher under hood temps and the coils hoses belts ,exhaust components and electronics under the hood will
not last nearly as long on the gas .
you must write us a research paper on that ideee,,,,,power is a result of heat and the expansion of gas and air in the cylinder, it takes the same amount of btu to make power in a gas as in a diesel engine,,,the only difference being there are more btu available in diesel fuel than in gas. The heat quotient is the same in either. However a diesel requires 15-16/1 compression to heat air hot enough to ignite fuel, whereas gasoline engines run 8-11/1 compression and if injected gas is there, it will ignite early. However, since injection is usually done just prior to tdc, then it will burn just fine but not produce as much power as diesel as the btu per unit volume is less than diesel,,,id suggest you review your 9th grade physics book for reference giving the btu equivalent for one horse power. Hp doesnt care where the heat comes from, its btu is the same from either source to develop one hp...@@JohnDiMartino
What is the torque difference in the 2 machines?
The diesel has 42 ft lb and the gas has 51 ft lb of torque. So 9 diffrent.
@@steiger256 thanks
We only sell the diesel in the uk as it’s just a great product
I bet my Steiner 450 diesel would have won
Fuel cost
Diesel cost more per gallon than gas. Diesel has less fillups and less fuel to store on hand. Both great engines
I think the diesel outperform the gasoline
I think there is a lot of misconception on the diesel because it is only 25 HP. I have not yet been able to test it on hills, But I do plan on doing a diesel hill test this year. I am not claiming the diesel is more powerful than the gas, But the diesel does not seem underpowered to me. When a diesel starts to bog down that is when the torque kicks in and it continues to do its job. I am excited to see the new EFI Kubota gas. I plan on doing a review on the N as well. I think the diesel performs quit well.
These machines are underpowered and the tires are useless. Yeah, the rough cut is rated to 1”….try doing that and driving through that area.
Definitely not impressed after spending $30k+. Can’t beat the grip on a sidehill, but they don’t have this machine figured out.
You must not own the same thing i own boss.
There's less parasitic loss with a diesel. More of that power is going to the drive and PTO accessories. I have to imagine (although I don't know for sure) that the diesel must be more reliable over the long haul.
Are those cub cadets in the back corner???
Yep. Lots of Cub Cadets.