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A͏s͏mongold Reacts To "Loot in Classic WoW" - MadSeasonShow
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- čas přidán 14. 04. 2020
- Asmongold watches a video by MadSeasonShow, covering one of the most important aspects of Classic World of Warcraft, the loot!...
Original Video: • Loot in Classic WoW
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I love the item design of classic so much.
I don't think bosses dropped _enough_ items at once, but man the items have so much personality.
I really like how my guild does loot. The mediocre or not top tier gear, is /rolled for and then masterlooted to the person. Top tier gear, like brutality blade and perditions, stuff like that, is loot counciled. But we dont have the same loot council every raid, we have 1 officer, and 4 random raid members chosen each week on a rotation. Everyone filled out a spreadsheet saying what gear they want priority wise. Those 5 switch channels and look at each person's priorities, talk amongst each other, and reward it to the person who needs it most. Every person can get 1 rolled piece of gear, and 1 loot council piece of gear, if they got 2 already they have to pass. No one has been upset about loot a single time the entire time so far.
The outro always gets me so hyped for some reason.
LOL. I thought it was just me. I find myself doing the same stupid head bob
Same
Its always the people who run the loot council who are like "loot council is the best way" lul
We used modified loot council, where it went to largest upgrade assuming good attendance, and then once you’ve gotten an item you can’t receive another one until the other people that wanted it had already gotten an item. Unless everyone else passed obv. It was fair and enjoyable. Liked it a lot more than dkp
I like the 6:06 method. Kinda reminds me of how in some games, your luck gradually increases until you eventually get the desired item where it resets again.
Blind Bid DKP worked great for my guild back in the TBC days. All drama ceased to exist when we went to that system. Not saying it’s perfect, but it was perfect for us.
Another system might be exchanging DKP for a a single roll, not being able to purchase multiple rolls. That would eliminate DKP hoarding. Refunding DKP on lost rolls would feel more fair too.
I was in a guild that used DKP on a private WotLK server and it was great. The more you play, the more points you get and the more you deserve the items. I don't see why so many people seem to dislike it.
It really depends on guild imo, I'd use loot council or ep/gp (cuz im lazy)
We had a big problem with DKP. Imagine, you are the only druid in the raid and your set drops. You get it by default cause no one needs it.
Do you take DKP away? What if he doesn't need the item but gets it for his 2nd spec you force him to play?
And than there are items everyone needs. If you have 10 mages, the set items result in a bidding war. But after that a weapon drops and suddenly the moonkin who had no competition drops all of his points.
But should ge get no loot at all?
On the surface and for a start it is a good system. But after raiding for 1 year in the same guild, the points screw some people over, resulting in the anger Asmon mentions
We use a dkp system with a need order. So mages can‘t spend all their points on a rogue dagger for example. We got some little arguments between hunters and furies/rogues but in the end everybody is happy. Your first 2 raids you get starting dkp and for boss kills but you can‘t spend it except if nobody needs on the items. this systems works so well for us
Edit: to be fair we don‘t have many mages so I got almost decked out in the first raid because everybody passed :P
All of my bad experiences in wow has always been loot council guilds, well at least until wrath after that I quit I didn’t care about raiding anymore.
must pimp out their grills
It's dictatorship. It can be good, but people in this Position Always fucks Up. The councils friend or girlfriend wants an important item, weird reasons why person x should get more items. It will Always cause the most Drama. DKP is the best System
My guild always looked who needed it the most as an upgrade and then gave it to the people.
Seems like he forgot about Roy and also that one Pally healer chick at the end.
3:15 that's start of a villain arc man
never knew that was a thing
"simp"
"What no----" *existential realization*
Loot should be distributed the 2020 way.. Death Rolls. Whoever wants the gear has to death roll eachother for it. Imo this would be a more satisfying way to win loot, and make losing feel less bad as you usually get to roll multiple times, so it softens the blow.
sounds good, takes too long xD
@@arnauddeniger802yo lol l mmm😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
Nah Nah Nah que tiene una capacidad capacidad 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😅 4:45 4:45 de los que
The only people who like GDKP on classic are mages and people with mage alts...
Not true, I am a GM, and we only do GDKP, our healers got good gears and also they are now rich AF comparing to healers in other guilds. It is more of a system that mages, rogues, and hunters funneling gold to healers and tanks. (Yes, mages are richer than healers, but in the most scenarios, mages will not compete loots against healers)
so everyone
We using shroud... it's a fixed dkp system where u have the chance to bid half your dkp for an item and the highest one gets it and loses half dkp, or u can bid a static 100 with lower priority and if multiple people do it, either one has to change to half dkp or all /roll instead. It ain't perfect, but it's better than the normal dkp...
For me the best system is Soft res + MS/OS combined. It seems the most fair to everyone. Someone who played a lot, has more chance to win a specific item and somebody who just started raiding can get potentially multiple pieces of gear similar to DKP system to catch up to other members quicker.
In Naxx, I was going for a BiS weapon drop from KT for about a month (it being the last item I needed from it and my only Soft Res). I was with the group since Phase 1 began but we always had to PUG the last 5 or so slots. A newbie pug rolls in with half or more Pre-BiS and soft reserves the item. He then proceeded to win the roll and take it (along with some OS rolls on other class specific loot that no one else needed). It was two weeks out from Ulduar too. I only saw the item drop once before all phase and thankfully I got it the week after just one week before Ulduar.
The point of the story though is that Soft Res is a good system until the final third of a phase when you need only a few items and now you're competing with some random person for them, sometimes people who could use many other things other than what you specifically need but want it too. That's where loot council and DKP would be useful.
Guild I'm in now has class leaders. Pass it to the class leader. If one class gets a piece for example mages get staff of dominance one week, warlocks get it next week. Theres also rebuttals and at that point the gm does the tie breaker. I think this is by far and away hands down the best system
Back when we had master looter we used a mix of /roll and loot council and it was overall the fairest method I've seen
You dont get loot cuz you don't perform well, and you don't perform well cuz you dont get loot.
It's just like real life!
@@steel5897 That's exacly why i posted this.
You can't get this job because you have no experience with this job, and you have no experience with this job because you can't get this job.
In Classic performing well is coming prepared and depending on the spec knowing how to play (the specs that don't just spam one spell).
@@DriftNick
The only way Loot Council is superior to EPGP is how to destroy your guild the fastest.
The best system IMO is EPGP/Loot Council hybrid. My guild did this. Assign every piece of loot a cost (you can find lists online I'm pretty sure) and have the loot council use everyone's points as a guide. Then if the loot council decides something that goes against the EPGP (like funneling to the tank) they would fully explain their decision before awarding the loot, and then that person wouldn't get loot for a bit because their points would be super unbalanced
"SIMP?!"..... *Asmon accepts and plays video*
It's easy enough. You using a point system but it functions similar to Need and Greed. The game will scan your inventory / bank / auction for all copies of that item as well as traded in the last 30 days.
If you have a copy of it, you go into the Greed point pool and cannot beat someone in the Need point pool. If you do not have a copy then you will enter the Need point pool.
in my own group, its personal loot, but if you don't need an item you trade it to the person who has the lowest ilevel in that slot. for rare drops (mounts, etc) those are 100% personal loot unless the person somehow doesnt want it
if we exclude personal loot, its gotta be just /roll... screw the rest
Got asked to join a guild in classic that needed a holy priest i was preraid bis and the guilds healers were all geared with benediction and prophecy set and they told me that im priority for gear. Get into mc and 1 min before the fight to get the eye raid leader says for a mage main to log in his alt which is a shadow priest. Needless to say he got the the item and i got nothing. Found out later it was his brother. Havent played since
That fucking sucks
this is just loot council in a nutshell who wouldnt help their friends before randoms stupid system
ha loser
I got into 3 mc raids... like 2 minutes before it started I got kicked for someone else. After 3 times I will not log into classic again.
Sad to see that about only 2 people in chat knew that it was music from Goldeneye playing in the background
It would ve 0 for Perfect Dark.
This is why the best raids were 10 man raids. At most you were rolling against 2 other people and loot council was easy mode.
When i joined depraved BWL and MC was a speedrun to gear guys like me for AQ40 (Depraved opened the gates). It was loot council and it worked very well. I never felt cheated and both my mage and rogue got geared with BWL gear quickly.
Fun fact too, we did the raid without Ventrillo. It was all class and raid chat
Make the guild members dual each other for loot.
"Entertain me!"
loot council is the best way, but giving loot based on dps is counterintuitive. it will always be the best upgrade for someone with worse gear than best gear, and thus an bigger improvement for the guild.
also how my old cloot council worked was that there were limits set, you cant get more than 3 items per week unless everyone else who is eligible for that loot is also at the 3 limit, so that means that new characters (past trails ofc) will still be funneled some gear, but that stops at some point and other raiders will also get gear, if youre not running on a straight roll system, there must be limits set.
My guild uses suicide kings, but with limits on who is eligible to suicide for loot. So loot goes to the classes/roles it should go to first, but we dont have to pick who gets it.
Back when I played (Vanilla through Mists) I had a hunter main that would run the serious weekly raids ( I would run in the group, not run the group), and then I ran a weekly alt raid group with my main tank alt. My weekly alt raid was free roll. If you need it roll. If you won, you won, if not, we saw you next week.
The weekly alt runs had better turn outs, less problems, and at one point eclipsed the main raiding group in terms of progression.
I hated the main weeklies.
The best way to do loot IN A GROUP THAT WANTS TO HAVE FUN ONLY
Is EGPG
The more you do for guild the higher your prio is, if your prio is significantly higher then any other Roller, you win, easy is. it works too because of the gear point modifier except it must stay permanent. you dont need two systems to diminish your value, you already have one, its part of the system: gearpoints.
The great thing is that new people also get something however they usually get, and the lootmaster can decide that luckily, not the big stuff but the smaller stuff, still big for them, not so big for core members.
My guild did DKP, but what stank was in Wrath of the Lich King, I had a Ret Paladin whose second spec was Protection. I was basically forced to be Protection and forcefully given tank raid drops that no else wanted but also lost my dkp on them. Thus, I had no DKP for my main build. grrr
My guild has epgp and works pretty well because there's also a decay system. So it's encouraged to spend you points and not horde them. You don't need a whole lot of points to get good stuff and can get them fast by just coming and being prepared or being on standby :) like I joined the guild and after a couple of weeks of raiding has the same epgp as everyone else because they were spending theirs on gear those two weeks. I'm also on a server with only one guild horde side, since Ali make up 98% of the server so we all know what eachother need and try to hand out as much gear as we can, so we mark not as valuable items really low.
I love WoW's current Loot system. Personal loot with the ability to trade as well.
It is so much better. I know I'll get a good fair chance to get what I want.
But You are only able to trade if ilvl isn't higher than what You already have, that's what bothers me about the system
Wrong. Best system is Attendance GDKP. The only way to earn DKP is by attending raids. That's it. You earn DKP for attendance in raids. The raid loot is a shop. There is no bidding. Each item has a fixed cost, the more popular items cost more than the less important ones. If two or more people want the same item, you roll to see who has the rights to purchase the item at the fixed cost, there is no bidding. Everyone has access to view the spreadsheet, so you know exactly how much GDKP everyone has, and who is in line ahead of you, and you can figure out which item that other warrior or rogue or whatever wants, and you might be 2nd in line or next in line, whatever. But you can plan your gear, it's fair, you earn it by attending raids, and you will never go too long without getting gear. And if you really wanted to gear up fast when you are the new guy, you could buy all the cheaper raid items while the other members of your class are saving up for the bigger items. It's the best system. Loot council is trash.
You need DKP cap to make people spend DKP. I had it on my guild and at first i was saving DKP for some trinks, but after like 4 weeks with full DKP you just start to spend it.
If you are a member of guild for months or years why would you want some new member get items over you?? You don't know if they leave guild, you don't know how active they are and so on..
And no matter what loot system you have you cant really prevent people some people for leaving guild. There can be so many reasons why they leave.
"The last piece of gear I get, is my last raid, I'm fucking done" Hahahah so fking true
Another thing DKP does is cause unneeded resentment between guildmates.. for instance, I won perditions blade for only 30 DKP because all of our other rogues had it.. one rogue in the raid whispers me all pissed at me “bro I spent 4,000 DKP on that”. Not my problem??
Loot Council *IS* the best system as long as you have a solid group of people who have good intentions and care about the good of the raid as a whole and not just themselves, just as Asmon said. Every guild is gonna have the fucking guild crybaby who always has something to say, but you can only have so many of those for it to be effective. Also have to have competent officers who know what they are doing and know every aspect of how each class works and what their meta is in order to be as fair as possible.
The guild I was in used the DKP system in Vanilla/TBC where each item had a set value and the person with the highest DKP won it then had that deducted, just like he described.. and we never had any drama with that. Some people who had the highest would even pass to someone else who needed whatever piece more. I know I did that several times. It's just about the people and if they mean well or not. There is always the outlier though, and most of us cared about the raid *GROUP* and we were lucky not to have a lot of selfish fucks around.
1st loot in TBC was the potatoes smasher or something like this in Karazhan :D I respec my rogue tuo use it lol
Loot Council is only as fair as the people on the council. One corrupt council member can destroy a whole guild.
I had no idea personal loot was a thing in the modern game (I stopped playing during cata) blizzard seems to have taken all these steps to reduce drama in so many aspects of the game, but imo that's just another nail in the coffin of making a lifeless antisocial "mmo"
Who misses the GDKP days in wrath?
ninjaed gold cap as the potholder and server xfered. totally worth it.
We always did silent auction for our DKP. Just whisper how much you bid on the item to the GM and highest bid win but you won't know what the others are bidding.
Love how the raid loot distributions he hates are the ones where it's the most fairly distributed lmao.
And I'm all for particularly important upgrades going to a tank if they need it, especially early on in classic, but such obvious preference just for systems where they can have shit handed to them.
why not just give the people who are the main raider's prio over the loot and if they have something better or just as good it goes to the people who tag along just to raid and have fun with the raid group, if there are two or more people from the main raid group who wants a item they roll for it and if neither need it let the rest roll for it. Im new to wow regardless but this seems simpler and fair.
but if im completely wrong on this forgive my ignorance
because why the fuck would i want to raid with my guild and spend 3 hours raiding for literally no gain since i know im so far down on loot prio which means im even less capable in comparison for the next raid
Because there are 40 main raiders and 0 that wants to raid just for fun and get no loot
I agree with your thoughts OP. These other 2 guys are the ones that cry when they dont get the upgrade they want. Probably Rogues ; )
@@beyondthelol its not a list but if you are not there for every raid and someone else is that person should get the better loot but if they have it already or got something just as good the rest of the people who just tag along when they want roll for it its the same as just simply rolling for it but the person who is always there and putting in the work should priority
@@steven2981 i played a warrior achktually
Loot drama is not the best part of world of warcraft, but as long as loot is an integral part of WOW, then there will be loot drama. If there is no loot drama in wow, that is because the loot is fucking worthless now.
We run open loot in our raids with 40 people lol. No one would ever need on an item
That's just bad Argumentation. "Loot council is the best System when people trust each other."
"DKP is Bad, because people scam each other."
If people fuck Up, it's the Same in dkp or loot council. If people trust each other dkp system works the Same.
I have tried lout concil and Suicide king as system, Suicide king is really good. Before i thought i was bad at dps, but in reality i had shity gear, and a lot of loot go peaple close to officer. Then with suicid king i was top dps and top in my guild. I change fuild and it was loot council, but it was fair, everyone had their loot so the guild was strongt .
I'm all about systems and algorithms, so I could never be in a loot council.
For a while, I was all in on Free roll, and I still am to some extent, but It's definitely not fun to leave a raid feeling like you've wasted your time.
DKP is probably where I lean the heaviest with only some minor issues.
For one, if I was in charge of a guild, I'd make the points have a 25% a week decay rate deducted on Tuesday (or after the last raid before reset day). That way, you can't hoard it, and it doesn't take too long for the average newbie to get to the same level of points as everyone else. The only issue I see is with certain classes like Druid who would pretty much get every piece of gear for pennies, and save up a ton of points for that one rare item that all the casters need. But that's just semantics, and in free roll, there's still a chance the druid gets nelth's tear over the mage who needs it to finally have something of value.
for Loot council, I find it hard to believe in a loot council that isn't corrupt. And if you think you're part of one, it might just be biased in favor of you.
DKP bidding should probably always cost something to bid and winning bid gets it at cost not the inflated final price
Dkp was fine, at set prices. Only prob was when we started downing shit in BT guild leader said warglaives were reserved for a warrior because at the start he had more dkp but not overall dkp. As the top overall dps as a rogue and grinding my teeth through all the raids from start to finish, said fuck that I'm out. It was a bs move, nothibg was ever reserved prior to. Also other rogues accusing me of being cutthroat because I wouldnt pass shit to them, that was kind of annoying.
"Loot council", AKA just giving all the decision making power to 1 or more people is just the dumbest shit on earth. For all the flaws of some sort of DKP system it is absolutely necessary. Perhaps it should be a slightly modified system where certain things are just accepted up front, like yea, the main tank, the most important healer, and the highest damaging DPS should definitely receive some seniority in terms of getting some of the most important things first. but Nobody should fully "trust" ANYBODY, certainly not in a GAME, and certainly not in a game like WoW. Nobody is perfect, everyone WILL be corrupt.
If your guilds policy isnt open rolls for main spec or a actually fair loot system than they are bad people and horde all the loot for themselves and their friends. It dosnt matter if they have no life and play more it dosnt make them more important than anyone else and a person who just gets on during raid nights still deserves to have a shot on rolls just as much as anyone else.
Why does no one talk ab the suicide Kings way of looting
Canlex That’s what I use now in Classic. Seems more fair than point systems, and it’s simple.
I have always used need rolls, works for me.
Last time I was this early, Tirion was still an important character and alive.
Cringe
ikr
In vanilla, a hunter bid me (DPS warrior) up to 3k DKP for Ashkandi. I think it was the most any item ever went for in our guild. A typical item went for around 100-200.
Fuck DKP.
What, why fuck DKP? It's a great system that only lazy players dislike.
I will never forgive my guild from 16 years ago for giving that female human rogue my goddamn Perds, SHE HAD THE FIST WEAPON FROM NAXX SHE DIDNT NEED IT
Just use a roll system. DPS gear drops, DPS roll, tank gear drops, Tanks roll etc. That way it is just down to luck. did not win your roll? better luck next time.
Done by an unbiased guild, DKP > Loot Council every time. Asmon’s opinion on that matter isn’t really acceptable since he gets everything handed to him lol.
does he? he still has dal rends!!
At like 1:58-1:59 I’m pretty sure asmon says powdered shit n***** drops.... anyone else?
The simp accusations were hilarious lol.
watching this a year later... we've used 1 soft reserve, MS>OS rolls. Minimal bullshit, you can stake a claim in something you really want, others can see this and react accordingly... it's been working wonderfully for our casual, median progression guild in TBC. Probably wouldn't work in sweaty guilds but we all came from a loot council environment and it was crap, previously EPGP, also crap, same issue as DKP, people hoarding for "BiS"
Been raiding with the same vanilla guild since Elysium, always used loot council. All officers have always passed all loot first week of new tier, and one random raider is invited to the loot council every week. Works great, never have to worry about loot.
That being said, if you don't trust the leaders of your guild I guess it would be a pretty frustrating system.
I also think Loot council is the only fair system for guilds, everything else is either RNG or bullshit DKP systems that add up to not being all that meritocratic at all, since the guys who are lesser geared end up gearing faster and bottlenecking the guys who actually have to progress in their gear.
For pugs i guess other systems need to be used, like rolling i guess, but never for guilds.
Madseason is the king
13:50 soooo true from 6 mages im top dps of them with the second worst gear 😂😂 but we run on dkp and i dont stay for so long in the guild
duuuude the dkp sys is amazing!
Loot Council? You mean Officer prio
Do 50/50, One week is DKP second week is just rolls
We did it the best like on my lock we had 4 other locks well we all rolled and if you won a roll then next drop of warlock you can’t roll and so fourth until it comes back around
the raid leader is like cartman respect my athoritie
i fucking miss world of warcraft man...
Have asmon react to preach's old top 5 vids or legacy of x wow class vids
GDKP system, zero loot drama here
gear doesn't even matter that much yet it shouldn't be a big deal...that being said for 40 man raid doing loot council idk man...dkp is much more fair in my opinion.
Any question why I say not just "No, but Hell no!" to guilds. Petty, self-serving narcissists have no place in my real life or online.
SR system is best. Loot council is corrupt, dkp can be corrupt and demotivates new people form joining because others already have saved up DKP, need before greed allows people to potentially win too much in one single raid run. Something like 2 soft reserve is best. I'm sick of dealing with guild drama and corruption over loot and wont join DKP or loot council anymore.
GDKP system is best
@@alrightylol Well then there's a real world value tied to items, because you can just swipe your credit card for gear.
"this was very common in vanilla" funny that asmon started playing in wrath....he bought 2008 achieves from unlinked accounts check his legacy he got vanilla achievements after the 2008 release of achievements
I like how he admits to being toxic
Asmon took the Joey "Coco" Diaz route. Admit all your sins in order to distance yourself from them lol.
mcconnel is prime example of someone quitting when they get gear
Death roll the loot or duel for it in a 1v1
Leave it WoW players to overcomplicate a simple process such as "distributing loot". Guys...inspect the person rolling and trust the raid leader. DKP? First time in over ten years of playing MMO's and i've never heard of this crap.
Literally quit classic cause i caouldnt deal with the weekly guild deliberations on loot. Classic being release made me realize theres is no right loot system in either version of the game. youre getting fucked and wasting massive amounts of time either way
Asmongold can get what he wants regardless. He is just giving his opinion on the looting system. Geez no wonder the guilds have so much drama!
18:02 we guild the fuck out of her !!!!!!
This is precisely why private servers like Warmane are better than wotlk classic / wow classic in general. Even tho the staff there is ~10 people they take things seriously. Ninja'ing in raid is a instant 30 day ban per item ninja'd and wipe of items stolen, same as botting and any offense. Blizz is a joke that encourages ninja
Here people dont even get mad at mistakes on rolls, or prio. I've seen people give DBW to others just cause they did good and lost roll or give a BIS item just cause RL mistook who won and gave to wrong person. Diff between good wow and bad wow is hard and you even have to pay to play on Blizz srvs just for a worse experience lmao
"/GQUIT hearth out" 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Loot Council sucks, least worse system, I played, was that with a prio list (1-3) in PUGS with rolling.
I find it kinda hard to believe that anyone can look at how gear used to be done, and think to themselves yeah that was way better.
damn we've never had any problems back in my guild but i think we had a different mentality going into all that since i was a rogue and guild master in tbc. i barely ever rolled on anything and getting pre sunwell bis gear was pretty easy. i was rocking my talon of azshara all the way to kiljaeden and had no problem giving my fury warrior the illidan legendary because it was obviously more useful on him.
let your chat be loot council
17:05 I wouldn't quit I would ask if I could rotated into the loot council since I geared out and continued to help the guild gear so we can push the hardest content.
Idk I'm the type to be more invested to the guild so when we are geared we can do things such as rbgs. Carry alts and sell them to people willing to pay the gold 🤷♂️
"Remember, always take things in moderation. Even in World of Warcraft"
we dont have the problem with loots . ofc you dont beacuse when boss died you took all the gears
Grenades still deserves justice lol