Have We Lost Sight of What Makes Classic... Classic? MadSeasonShow Reacts
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 07. 2024
- Video by WillE: • Have We Lost Sight Of ...
✅Become a channel member for perks, such as early access to most of my videos(and ad-free): / @madseasonshow
✅Follow next video progress on Twitter: / madseason_
✅Watch me stream at twitch.tv/madseasonshow
If you have any suggestions, requests, or just general feedback let me know in the comments.
Credits/References:
Incursion footage by cakeninjagaming: • Complete Nightmare Inc...
Music
Waltz for Zizi cover by Sam Griffin Guitar: • Cowboy Bebop Guitar Co...
WoW Lofi mix by bits & hits: • World of Warcraft but ...
Fisherman's Horizon Acoustic Cover by Sam Griffin Guitar: • Final Fantasy 8 Guitar...
'Ambient Gemini' by McVaffe from ocremix.org: • OC ReMix #140: Donkey ...
Holding my Thoughts in My Heart Orchestral Remix by Pontus Hultgren Music: • Final Fantasy VII - Ho...
Solar Intervention by Daniel James Taylor: • Factorio OST #11 - Sol...
Calm Before the Storm cover by Super Guitar Bros: • Final Fantasy X Guitar...
Link to the Past Epilogue by Orchestral Fantasy: • Legend of Zelda: A Lin...
Clock Town by Orchestral Fantasy: • Majora's Mask - Clock ...
Mako Reactor by Orchestral Fantasy: • Final Fantasy VII - Ma...
Cloister of Trials Remix by Arcanuman1: • Video
Tyrano Lair by Orchestral Fantasy: • Chrono Trigger - Tyran...
Slam Shuffle by Orchestral Fantasy: • Final Fantasy VI - Sla...
Gruntilda's Lair cover by PPF: • Grant Kirkhope - Grunt...
Underneath the Rotting Wallmarket cover by Andre Kane: • Final Fantasy VII - Un...
Secret of Mana Distant Thunder by Orchestral Fantasy: • Secret of Mana - Dista...
Into the Thick of it by Orchestral Fantasy: • Secret of Mana - Into ...
Terra theme by Orchestral Fantasy: • FF6 - Terra - Hry
Actually had to do a double take when I saw the title of the video!
Thanks for checking it out though - always interesting to hear what you have to say
The best Duo! You two, take my idea - Classic + should start with the TBC pre patch state. Better talent trees, horde pallies, alliance shaman, gear was Re itemized, quests added… obviously some minor tweaks needed.
Shameless plug, love and appreciate you both!!!
@@Pennyforathought I like the idea of the factions having exclusive classes from and RP perspective. However, I'm willing to make that concession in service to raid balance.
Willie, the #1 Season of Retail minus promoter
It was a great video, keep up the good work dude!
You two should do a podcast type video talking about topics like these.
There is so much unfinished content/raids/zones in vanilla wow. All blizz had to do was slowly finish vanilla, releasing it in patches over time and calling it classic plus.
yeah but that costs money why not just be lazy spending very little money while taking our money?
Turtle wow
bro thats called retail lol
this is what i expected and we got season of retail which started with some hopeful wishes and now i dont know its a mess imo
That involves artists, who can produce more revenue by being put to work on retail.
Check out Turtle WoW and the upcoming Project Epoch :)
its funny how Blizzard saw OSRS wanted a slice of that oldschool pie and proceeded to not understand a single thing about why osrs became popular after RS3 basically died.
"oh you just have to release an old version, ez money"
NOPE
Luckily Jagex sees it and is carefully fine-tuning OSRS. It's great. WoW isn't even worth touching with a ten foot pole anymore IMO, retail or otherwise
@@SetariM You're just plain wrong but ok.
@@LilacMonarchit works until it doesnt
Honestly wish this game got more love but I get it. It's a grind fest and the style of movement/combat wouldn't be good for some. But it really is more of an old school MMO.
At least we know we are blessed with devs that listen and try their best
I kinda just don’t care about WoW anymore the way I used to.
Retail, Classic, Season of Discovery, it’s just all overwhelming as someone who tried to come back after a long break.
The magic I felt in 2004-2012 will never be replicated again, and I think I’m finally accepting that.
It’s always a pleasant experience walking around and getting gut punched by nostalgia and remembering all the times my friends and I would be playing in Ventrilo/Teamspeak for days on end.
Some of the best years of my life, and we’re all still friends, but everyone has moved on.
Ngl tbc was fun. It just gof bad at the end.
Yooooo same 32 years old now stopped playing after wrath! I have been trying to play for the past 6 months again for the first In 12 years or so, and as much nostalgia it brought back trying to play with people my age acting like 14 year olds is crazy they’re taking the game so serious like it’s a part of your income and honestly I just could get into that. I have a mortgage and kid to feed I can’t take this game that serious anymore.
I think that the last couple of sentences of your comment speak volumes. The internet has changed. Not only have games changed and a cohort of gamers aged, but we’re not sifting through Firefox browsers and changing ventrilo passwords because something sketchy happened at 3 am while the raid leader was high and a rando joined. Everything is QR codes and loot boxes.
Wise words, it takes a lot of maturity to accept something like that.
yea the new wow expansion also looks so mediocre blizzard is gone long gone.
I'm tired of waiting for a "New WoW" or for the same feeling that I felt 2004 - 2009. I have given up. Now I'm 38 and I don't even care anymore. I don't have the time for it anymore. I have a job, a family and kids. Shoutout to the Nostalrius team for creating something that at least felt like real Classic.
Well said. We changed because we are not in our twenties.
2019 Classic release was very close, I think those first three months were something special in their own right.
Nostalrius
2004 was also before the social media boom. WoW being many of our first introduction to “instant messaging” added to that sense of awe. there’s simply no way of getting that back.
@@GermanBoy00 May i suggest you try EverQuest 2 new classic server. It feels good man.
SoD isn't Classic+. It's a Vanilla version of retail.
real
What made you think they would make two separate clients and update classic to be something more and add loads of new content to it like old areas that were never finished? SoD is Classic+, it is getting a new dungeon and has greatly changed the class dynamics. What more do y'all want?
@@michaelkovalsky4907 Upfront I never trusted modern/current year blizzard to design this. But what I wanted was a game with the classic design philosophy and new content.
There are lots of things people don't even point out about SoD that are much more like retail wow from the beginning - down to having only 1 raid be current content at a time, with all new content centered around that raid/the zone it's in, with several content cycles per year (it's faster in SoD admittedly) generally invalidating the past phase's content. It feels exceptionally retail-like at its core.
Add on to that several of the follow on affects to the game's feel - for one thing, base vanilla leveling/solo content is so trivial because numbers are so huge that it feels broken. When I say broken I mean in phase 2 I started leveling up my shadow priest towards 30 and quickly discovered I literally should not cast SW:P because it didn't get enough ticks on yellow/orange mobs. Could solo like 5 mobs at once. The fastest way to level for me was to disregard quests and grind a highly dense area chainpulling. Like what am I even playing at that point? I don't know but certainly not old school WoW. I quit before getting 30.
To then be told by the devs "we know classic players want incredibly piss easy raid content that everyone can slam week 1, that's what we know classic players want" when I very much don't want that was just salt in the wound. They don't have the conception of classic that I do. I want things that take time and a deliberation (perhaps not skill) to achieve. I want to walk into the raid and find out that we really need to pull together as a guild to craft a nature res set for our tank. Or to fight a new mob in the open world that punishes me if I don't kite it, or - or fucking something that requires you to pay attention to mechanics and respond to them, for fuck's sake.
And perhaps a seasonal event server based on DISCOVERY should not have every detail and raid disseminated through streamers and such before it launches? I would argue perhaps all MMOs shouldn't, but at least this one? Maybe?
@@michaelkovalsky4907most of them want vanilla wow but new content. No class changes no 20 man reworks of MC but they actually want is just new vanilla content
@@michaelkovalsky4907 Vanilla with just new content. Leave the retail aspects out of it, you know the reason people want to play Vanilla to start with?
When I go to the suggestion forums and say "What if we had servers that don't have WoW Tokens or Group Finder or Boosts or the ability to transfer characters there? Call them Contained Servers"
I get swarmed by super rude people telling me to cry more about WoW Tokens
Then those people go to CZcams and sh*t all over Mad's comment section
Man must be over the target
@@iaobtc Man's out here in a contested PvP zone and getting mobbed by a bunch of low levels with "MISS" appearing repeatedly and the occasional 0 damage hit getting through.
You'll never convince me those aren't bots run by Blizzard themselves trying to manufacture support for all the P2W store stuff.
@@Tundra. They really seem like it. I've seen the argument that "If everyone has the option to buy a WoW Token, then it's not Pay to Win, it's just part of the game that all players have equal access to"
And I sat there staring at that argument like "How do you even respond to someone that fucking stupid?"
yeah pretty much any time you post something on reddit that isnt blowing the moderators
7:25 - I had a professor in college who gave us a final lecture as we were getting ready to graduate. He told us that if we were thinking when we were younger "Once I get my license and I can drive, life is going to be so much better" and then "When I turn 18 and get to college and have freedom to do what I want, things are going to be so much better", and now that you're getting ready to graduate "Once I get a real job and start making good money and I can afford all the things I want, life is going to be so much better", that we should be prepared because life doesn't get any better.
I remember hearing some audible sighs and gasps from my compatriots. I don't think anyone was really expecting to hear that, but it really stuck with me. If you're constantly looking for that next milestone thinking "This is when I'm truly going to be happy", then you'll never really be happy. Life is what you make of it, and you need to learn to appreciate it otherwise you'll forever be chasing something just out of reach.
What truly made me happy is community/friends. I'm 25 did the whole "route". Worked various jobs, got fit, moved in with partner so we can save and got my degree to work in IT. realized damn I'm really unsatisfied because we are alone, we are so lonely as a couple and bam new city realizing I was Non-binary and expressing that and finding a friend group with similar views has been amazing. We party, we do beach days and do community events. I truly think people need to go out and join a run club, thats how I found my friends, and connect connect connect!
That's called dreaming and hope and aspiration... that is literally life. If you are not chasing after something you are idle and even water goes bad when it's still.
I understand his point but there is a difference between being realistic and being cynical, we are all imperfect and have no idea what the future holds so it is neccesary to reliy on the illusion of control and hope to keep going, especially when things are not going well; the problem is when that desire of the future starts to ruin our present. This is really what the problem is, not a desire for a different better future but to replace it with past, that often never really existed as we remember but even if it did, it cannot come back. If your happiness is dependent on things being as they were then it is not that things just wont get better, they can only get worse.
@@mikialousmaximus4990 Thinking that the next thing will finally make you happy is false hope. Learning to derive happiness from within is far more rewarding. Water doesn't "go bad" when still. Especially from the perspective of many microorganisms.
@@Heakz I didn't find it cynical, I found it apropos and enlightening. Be hopeful but be careful of the false hope that the next thing is what will finally make you happy. It won't.
Classic died as soon as TBC and the WoW token were live.
Died the second Thottbot got launched, more accurately.
I’d do the whole 3 over again 100%. I don’t want Cata or MoP.
Tbc was great
Amen
Classic classic is still there.. but darn Cataclysm is already retail wow but with all its weaknesses.. I really don’t get its poplularity..
Meant to release this a while ago but been busy with some RL stuff! Should be back to a better pace soon though :D
HI MAD!
I see you've been listening to the LoFi WoW playlist! Dude it's so good i recognized it immediately.
I'd love for you and WillE to sit down and have a podcast style chat about classic and it's future. Maybe a new video idea?
Ur pace is awesome. Don't worry about that.
RL? Never heard of that game. 😮
We never lost sight, Blizzard just slowly revealed they never wanted to do classic in the first place.
Yup. It was obvious from the changes they made even before Classic went live (megaservers chief among them) - they were only doing it to shut us up and fully expected, perhaps even actively hoped it would fail so they could rub it in our faces.
"You think you do but you don't."
They'll never forgive us for proving them wrong, which is they keep making changes to bring Classic closer to retail with every iteration.
Fortunately, we have Turtle WoW.
Blizzard as a company is too technically and culturally far-gone for anything ever resembling the original Warcraft ethos in terms of art, gameplay, or storytelling to ever appear again.
"Oh, you're just being negative."
Having not played since Shadowlands I have had a lot of time in recent years to try games that are actually respectful of my time and not managed by people who hate me. lol
This is my opinion as well. Acti-blizz ≠ Blizzard. That being said, I think it would be interesting to see their attempt at replicating the original blizz ethos, because you never know. They might surprise us.
It's far, far more simple than that. They are a publicly traded company now that has an obligation to make money, at whatever expense.
Body type 1 body type 2 in classic was the telling thing
@@pocketqueens830 I WISH Blizzard's single-minded mission was just to make money, because if it was they'd be putting out the best expacs since Legion and milking what Warcraft fans actually want.
Instead they don't need your money when they get it earmarked for implementing the "right politics".
What games have you been enjoying?
"I love willie" - MadSeason.
Best quote of 2024
Free Willie! 🐳
Who doesn’t
czcams.com/video/c_fBOxdrVdU/video.html
"Hmmm.. good advice"
Addendum to the line of thinking around "once the enormous world turns into an obvious treadmill carrot-on-a-stick rat race, then that's a quit moment" and "once the world doesn't feel lived in, then you see The Matrix code and it feels artificial and empty" and the "once you have a bunch of quality of life and convenience and pay-to-advance/win stuff, then the fun dies because there are no more obstacles to overcome by playing, so no more reason to play": give someone all the cheatcodes to a single-player game and see how long they keep playing.
Exactly, and on top of that its in the nature of players to look for and want those shortcuts. A player base constantly campaigns in feedback to remove obstacles, gain quicker advancement, have more convenience, etc... It takes talented and experience developers to know the difference between when players are signalling something is wrong and when its just them wanted instant gratification because they want the carrot they are chasing. Bad developers don't understand this and cater to these demands for diminishing short term returns at the cost of long term sustainability and fulfillment.
All those points are spot on. We intellectually know that these games are carrot on a stick, matrix code, etc., but a good developer makes the experience that's presented to you so enjoyable you don't get the urge to look for the man behind the curtain. Once you do that, the magic is gone. That's what people like Ion have never understood.
MoP Remix is basically cheat codes and plenty of people are playing it and enjoying it.
@@ZaerdinGaming that's cause it's only around for a few months. Would they enjoy it for two years?
I used to cheat in SP games. A lot. Then I got older and started relishing the challenge compared to how much time I had in my days around work, family, etc. I GOT GUD, SON.
Internet people think because nobody is vocally complaining about fundamental changes to classic and SoD, that it appears OK. Not true, most people just quit and never come back. You take away their nostalgia, the gameplay they enjoy, don't be surprised if they don't like what they got. They just won't make hundreds of posts about it on the internet, most of us are too old and have more important things to do than argue with retail players on the internet. That's who does like the changes, retail players who aren't even playing retail much. WillE for example here is so dismissive of these aspects despite them being fundamental to the Classic experience, that you can stop on a few words he said for 5-10 minutes to talk about it shows this.
This is what you get when the player base just wants to speed run to end game, boosting services to skip leveling, gdkp to get gear and/or gold as fast as possible. Blizz is simply catering to how the players have been approaching the game.
Yep. Like it or not, the majority of modern players want to a game that respects their time. People like Madseason are in the minority, and these games cost too much to develop to only have five figure sub counts.
What you said is 1000%
@@seanwilliams7655 "People like Madseason are in the minority" I guess thats why Vanilla Classic tripled wow subs and tbc/wrath classic died.
@@OfficerGogeta you serious? In case you are, lets look at the facts. One, subs tripled in the first month when people were seeing what the hype was about. Most of them quit fairly quickly. Two, the pandemic did a lot to help the sub numbers. I remember seing the huge spike in raid logs the week after lockdowns started. Three, Wrath and TBC didn't "die". They didn't pull the same numbers as (pandemic) Vanilla, but they did well. Four, lets now forget all the gold buying and boosting happening in Vanilla. It was, and still is, clear that many/most people don't want to deal with a Vanilla style grind, and are willing to spend more real money to skip it instead of their time.
So yeah, people like Madseason are in the minority. Most normal adults don't want to play one game 20+ hours a week, and a decent amount of the ones that are willing to put the time in can't because they have spouses and families that need that time.
_"You think you do, but you don't."_
(missing part of the quote due to a mic malfunction):
_"Because we're still Blizzard, and you know we'll gradually destroy what you love all over again."_
Except.....they didnt. YOU destroyed wow. YOu ruined it with gdkp. You ruined it with your boost buying dungeon spam. YOu ruined it with your relentless autism, taking any and all fun out of the game. Blizzard cant fix wow, because the issue lies with the sad mazed rats still playing.
Wrath doesn't get the flak for it's changes because while it changed some things, the core of the game wasn't changed all that much. They more or less added to things rather than changing and stripping things out like they started to do with Cata. Cata stripped out stats, added new ones, locked down talent trees, changed the old world, etc. Wrath didn't really do that.
Exactly. Cata is no where close to the same WoW. Even changed the entire overworld. Beginning of the end. Cata was one of the worst expansions Imo
I loved Wrath, but I really think it was the beginning of the end, not Cata. Specifically, the beginning of the end for me was the introduction of the dungeon finder. The cracks it caused started to show in Wrath already, but it wasn't until quite a bit later that they would fully form, simply because in Wrath, the social cohesion in the player base still carried over from earlier. Over time, it would erode more and more.
@@NaethdrenDungeon Finders are biggest piece of shit MMO game can have implemented. After this one u can almost play game solo with some NPC's. World feels smaller, not live because you get insta tp to location. Its just bad game desing.
The turning points for me in wrath was when they introduced four versions of TOC, and then they had the shortcut catch up dungeons that eliminated the need to progress through any of the content.
@@Elearen yes this is exactly right. I forgot that they had four versions of TOC LOL. It was the most forgetful raid tier between ulduar and ICC. I quit right after ulduar. Catch up tier to satisfy the retail
children who need instant gratification with everything in their lives.
MadSeasonShow: "By the way, told ya so!"
Man, you can use this line till the heat death of the universe!
Modern Blizzard is so desperate to be profitable from quarter to quarter that they hurt themselves in their confusion.
I played SoD and I LOVED the level 25 cap. You wanna know why? The pressure to level FAST was off, I could take my time and trundle around the world doing cool quests that I never got to experience the first time 'round because I levelled out of the zone before I had the chance to do them. Did you know there is a Warlock in Stormwind who sends you to kill a noble with a mug of beer? Straight up poisons a dude. That's wild, and so fun narratively! It's moments like this you miss when the whole focus is on endgame. WoW is a game that is MADE for exploration.
Meanwhile Horde players are poisoning alliance prisoners every other quest, lol. Even somebody's pet dog.
The Forsaken really like their poisons.
@@bronwynmeehan8303 you know you could 1 disable the buff or 2 do the quest anyways since you enjoy them so much? I don't get this point the most out of all the vanilla purest cry baby takes
@@chilwil07 that is not how psychology works.
@@chilwil07 If you have to disable something that makes you drag behind other people, people will think they're gimping themselves overall and won't do it. The "Just don't do it even though it exists" argument never works because FOMO.
@@SetariM fomo over what? They love the game they love the world they love the quest its not about end game and even if it were just make.an alt an experience that stuff at your.own pace as someone whos done 1-60 pre cata in 3 different expansions almost if not more than 200 times over the years there is no discovery there is no exploration i truly appreciate wow all the way up till legion of all the preferences people have for eras of the game vanilla enjoyers are the worst of all the weak points folks bring up the reality of vanilla and its fanbase is the lack of skill and the lack of desire to gain any
What is funny is private classic servers are growing again.
funny? i call it pathetic, still so desperate to return to 2004 you cannot accept that it's gone and it cannot happen again.
@@UltimateGamerCC I say it's funny because Blizzard made classic and classic servers exploded with new and old returning players.
Then Blizzard made BC classic and added things a lot of players complained about them they did not stop just to ruin their game all over again.
The rise, fall, then rise and fall again is hilarious. Blizzard can't stop shooting themselves in the foot.
@@UltimateGamerCC let people enjoy things.
@@seanwilliams7655 considering that they have an issue with how I have fun, no.
@@UltimateGamerCC why not? People like you basically run the game. Even a significant number of the people working on the game either used to be you or ARE you currently (Ion). Given all that, a relatively small amount of people, who you don't want to play with anyway, complaining about you shouldn't really matter.
Thanks to the Nostalrius team and everyone who played there that made the experience magical. 8 years ago it got shut down and paved the way for WoW Classic.
classic was gone when they added level boosts in tbc launch, but turtle wow folk didnt lose sight of classic.
Maybe the "You think you do, but you don't" line was truly a warning for what was to come
Yeah, the community it self turned the game into a chore. They were right all along, not about the game per se, but about the playerbase.
damn i never thought id say this but in the long run they were like, but thats not to say they made a crap ton of money off of all the classic server launches, thats a ton of money that they wouldnt have had but i think even i knew none of the classic stuff would last, its great for a while but once you do the same thing over and over again it gets boring, its the same problem with any live service type game, you get stuck doing the exact same activities for like 2-3 months at the least
wasnt he specifically talking about the modern amenities that vanilla wow lacked
The glory days of classic are now far behind us.
@@ThePatank yep
Finally someone who agrees wrath was the big changer. TBC is the best classic + they could ever give because true vanilla feel ended with the end of tbc
Nah i think TBC actually was still the big changer. First expac to pretty much take out meaningful reasons to be in the 'main world' (eastern kingdoms/kalimdor) and brought in flying (killed huge amounts of out of world interaction) etc. For me my pref for classic+ would still be based in the main world :) but i agree wrath was just beyond
I’m with Beau, TBC changed too much, mainly taking us to an entirely new space away from the main continents. There were still areas they could’ve built on in classic, zones untouched. I didn’t want to be whisked to some strange area, and one hub city for both races was simply awful to me. Flying was cool, until you realized you’d see people much less. I played most of the expansions, but TBC was the beginning of the end of my hardcore enjoyment of WoW.
im with you on that one powerscaling went crazy in wrath.
Yep, TBC was basically vanilla but with more polish and more content. Wrath was the beginning of the decline, but millions of people started playing during Wrath and are therefore quite biased towards it, even seeing it as the peak of WoW.
@@BeauNorman-xv9zi I Think tbc without fly mount was a good try ...
Season of Discovery is not classic plus, it is indeed retail minus. We run into the same problem as consumers of Classic content as book fans with TV adaptations. The ego of the developer slowly creeps in and they think they can improve upon its core, but they can't. Their own agenda and past knowledge slowly taints the experience until it is something entirely different. Once it became clear that gear was being substantially changed and MC became a 20-man, my hopes of character transfers to era turned into just leveling characters on era instead and having more fun there.
One thing I've learned about human cognition as a result of playing mmorpgs is that people always break their own rules as long as it benefits them. No changes crowd switched up real quick once they realized changes can benefit them with op builds.
With Classic Era having a low playerbase since TBC Classic, its mindblowingly incompetent how Classic Era have 38 servers running (in EU). One big server for PvE, PvP and RP would be more than enough and make the community thrive. Then again it is most likely by design to make people quit and try retail instead...
@@keelhld94 Thats good to hear then, but its still quit a view if you dont know about it or you remember servers beeing dead like myself. One single server per category would make it all so much more friendly and welcoming for people who wants to play it. Knowing connected servers from the past, it had alot of limitations on joining guilds or trading between different realms.
I agree in principle but Blizzard have demonstrated they aren't willing to manage an RP server properly. Grobb was overrun by normal PvPers who didn't care about RP rules and nothing was ever done about it because the only enforcement was the automated reporting system.
Fool me twice, shame on me. I'll stick with Turtle WoW. There are stupid names there too but at least the people running the server aren't lying to me about the rules and trying to bleed me for every cent they can.
Imo for classic they should continue to add more content and follow what jagex did with OSRS , add new questlines , dungeons , raids , zones but dont increase the level cap , but add more fun items and cosmetics(no cash shop tho)
@@Legchuck You're never going to get another product from Blizzard that doesn't include a cash shop. They'd be leaving money on the table.
Even if the people actually programming the game would prefer that, the people in charge of the corporation understand they're legally obligated to do everything they feasibly can to maximize profits. Doing otherwise, no matter how much goodwill it might generate with customers, would leave them open to legal action by shareholders.
It sucks and it's stupid, pursuing maximum short-term gains at the expense of long-term sustainable profits from customers who don't hate your company and everything for which it stands, but that's the nature of the corporate beast.
I thought I would level up a toon on Cata to see what I missed because I just used dungeon finder exclusively the first time. It's bad. The mobs have almost no health and it's like you're just clicking along and watching a movie and nothing you do matters at all.
So it’s better if you wand/auto attack things to death?
@@Abalamski It's more of the feeling that the XP and level(s) you gained were worth it prior to Cataclysm. It is worse nowadays, even before the fast-past XP gain before the level squish in SL or the squish in general, but even when Catalysm first came out back in 2010 the journey was ruined. When walking into a zone, you knew you would walk out with a full set of armor for the next zone (Sans rings and a trinket, maybe). The social aspect of the MMORPG genre in general would be pushed to non-existent because this was the expansion where things like RF would be dropped, or a more SP experience would become the norm (Everyone is the hero, you no longer needed to do a questchain or event to be regarded as such). The leveling from 1 to max no longer felt like an experience, a journey, or an adventure, it just felt like Blizzard was starting to slowly push you closer and closer to endgame so you can get to raids with your guild.
The point is that the mountain we had to climb, the process where we learned to run after crawling, and - again, the journey - no longer felt something special, it just felt like something we had to do so we could get where everyone else was. I have been playing since actual late Vanilla/early BC and I was accused of wearing rose-tinted goggles, but it is no surprise that Classic was when I was able to tap into the actual fun WoW promised and not Retail.
RDF in cata is about minimizing the boring grind time in the themepark version that is cata, I enjoy cata but it very much is the the version of the game where being sub level cap is just "waiting in line to ride the rides" and hitting max level is "actually getting to the ride"
The storyline of your character took a backseat.
@@EJ_Red As opposed to my full boostie vanilla character who never did any quests or even fought any mobs he became so strong by watching mages. (yes I am talking about original vanilla)
You forget that if you want to have a RPG journey that's on you bro you could always avoid the RPG journey in any version of the game it's just now you feel like an idiot if you do open world questing because the quests and zones aren't as interesting as the old world and it's exp is so slow in a version of the game where leveling is the line waiting to get on a ride at a theme park.
You could solo self found and do all the quests you want have the RPG journey of your life in any game it's all about imagination bro.
The real problem IMHO is that the "new world" in cata is just shit compared to the old quest lines yeah they simplified the gameplay loop but the quests are just boring and hell even some of the cata zone endgame quests just have inconsistent or dumb lore.
@@RadarFinsR boosting in Vanilla wasn't anywhere NEAR the industry it became in Classic simply because the vast majority of players didn't have the knowledge to do it.
People who say you can play the whole game without socialising has never tried to raid mythic
Both the players and the devs missed the whole point when it came to why private servers are still running and successful - players enjoy playing the older content with 0 time pressure.
Re-releasing the game with the same patch cadence completely missed the point. Sure, they got players to play it once over, but the retention sucks, forcing them to put a whole lot of effort into Season of Discovery, which is also not what private servers are about.
Just leave 1 mega realm up for each expansion until cataclysm, and let players play it at their own pace. That's all classic needs to be super successful over a long period of time rather than be a flash in the pan experience.
Good luck convincing blizz of this though. Those devs have an ego that makes it impossible for them to listen to realistic feedback.
people wanted classic+. they just wanted some extra content in classic. blizz gave us sod which was retail-lite. blizz has all this content from later expansions, all they'd have to do is scale it down to classic and it could go forever. tbc is my favorite expansion, but I would play classic+ no doubt
Classic was never going to be the same because people knew too much on how to min max it.
So be it, there were always those people
that is why the game needs more randomly generated content and autobalance on spells and talents.
@@darkma1ice not true at all. The amount of game knowledge that would have put you in the top 1% in 2006 is pretty much just bare bones standard now.
@@seanwilliams7655its not even classic knowledge, its overall game design knowledge
It’s more like classic now that
those players have moved on.
Regarding your opinion about WotLK being the first step towards the retail design philosophy, I think one keypoint you are forgetting is that Cataclysm is when Blizzard started to actively remove content from the game and thus make the game smaller instead of bigger. The very first step was removing vanilla Naxxramas in my opinion but it was easier to accept from people as it was possible to experience the raid in WotLK. In Cataclysm they removed and/or replaced most of what people experienced as their very first zone, as their very first quest. This was a knife in the back for many people who started player during vanilla and this is why Cataclysm is so hated. It's just an emotional reaction but it makes a lot of sense.
Cataclysm is also an expansion about Deathwing, who is a villain tied to the book trilogy about the War of the Ancients, which not many people have read. WotLK was the direct conclusion to The Frozen Throne, which an enormous amount of WoW players at that time had experienced. This makes WotLK play more on an emotional note that Cataclysm.
WoW was amazing when you started it back then. Such an amazing feeling the loading screen made it even better. But nowadays i don't even bother to logg in anymore.
SoD's failure isn't really because of the direction, it just isn't that good. P1 was a lot of fun, but that's about it.
Devs can't figure out what they're doing is the problem. It's like the game has been out for 6 months at this point and like a month ago they actually used the excuse
"oh yeah we never intended to balance pvp along the leveling process so if the gameplay is shit when you get 1 shot by somebody just think we'll fix it once the game is dead and over k?"
yes that’s it
P1 was boring as hell, Not many spells, no Skill requirement, also PvP was boring
@@gx92muc Not many spells as opposed to WHAT? Original Vanilla? Lol.
@@chipchippahson i didnt even have my Toolkit as a rogue like blind prep etc, boring
I think the devs need an experimental version of Vanilla where they can fail & succeed making changes and additions to the game. SoD doesn’t have to and will not be better than Vanilla, but I hope it leads to a version that is more subtle in its execution. Also, even on a straight-up, phased Vanilla server, a level 50 bracket would be the least popular phase. People don’t want to play 5/6 of a class for a long time.
Always agree with you wholeheartedly about microtransactions 🤢
Weren't private servers doing that already?
@@PRobie666 You are absolutely right. It would be nice if Blizzard would start where the Private Servers left off. But they are the company that owns the IP, so...
@@PRobie666 They still are. Turtle WoW is a far better version of Vanilla+ than Blizzard's useless seasons.
My experience with group content in classic has been spending 30-40 minutes minimum trying to find people that will accept me, only to give up and waste my time. Finding people that are asking for people that are already over-geared for the content and who are unwilling to accept people that are needing the rewards the content gives. I feel the nostalgia people feel for classic has long since passed, and most PUG groups are unwilling to take any player that doesn't meet over restrictive item level requirements. Group finder is a much needed equalizer in that regard and is a large value add for any MMO, as it saves players time and removes the restrictive requirements players place on content.
exactly. people live in a delusional lie pretending that Classic is just like the old days. Its just old content with new community elitism
True, but classic classic wasn't nearly as bad in this regard as TBC classic and onwards, because there was still a huge influx of players when classic launched who didn't take the game as seriously as the TBC and Wrath groups
Pretty much my group experience with Classic as well, only also with the addition of being mocked for not buying gold to pay a mage to level me.
@@Electromash92 No it was just a bad, I got called a retard for saying "I don't want to buy gold to pay a mage boost me" during phase 3 of initial Classic.
Classic has been rotten to the core from the start.
Make your own group with your own requirements. The mentality that you're owed an invite is toxic, especially when showing up as the least qualified .
Blizzard: Classic Plus? You think you want that, but you don't. You want Retail Minus. You'll see... Wait where are you all going?
I think I've seen this video before.. perhaps even a few times
How many times can this topic be repeated? how tiring...
@@beng6149 exactly what I was thinking. I feel like this is all he makes content about now.
@@alakazamisabeasttbf that's basically everyone. SODs in the worst place it's ever been population wise, I quit at beginning of P3 after seeing the devs fuck up nonstop on stuff that should have honestly been figured out was overtuned just doing some napkin paper math let alone proper internal testing. Expressed my opinion they should have put P3 on a PTR since they can't properly test it internally and I was lambasted in CZcams comments and online forums about how "it's season of discovery not season of figure everything out before it's even released!"
Funny how I was proven so fucking right with the devs putting P4 on a PTR for a month.
@@fromryuk7785 It's a tired subject. We gett it. He doesn't like the Wow Token, Level Boosts and RDF. He is entitled to make content about whatever he wants. But being the great creator he is, I think people would love to see more of his Pandora's Box series
Classic was a period of our lives with diminishing returns on playback.
Not to mention, in mid 2000s everyone's brains weren't gamified yet.
Exactly.
The thing about nostalgia that people seem to ignore is that you can never replicate (at least fully) the context and variables that were at play when you had those past experiences. Your imagination can only take you so far when it comes to reverting back age-wise, playing the same music, encountering the same friends/family members, not having specific points of knowledge, etc.
For example, GTA Vice City is my favorite singular video game of all time. There are games I feel are better, and games I have spent more time playing, but Vice City had such a huge impact on my love of gaming that it likely won't ever be matched. However, much of that was due to the fact of WHEN I played Vice City (launch day, 2002), my age at the time (11), and the fact that I'm a Florida native who simply enjoys 1980s-era media and references. As a 33-year old now, I can only do my best to imagine those feelings, but having gotten older and played many more videogames in that time since, going back to Vice City (once the nostalgia wears off) becomes a chore since I've progressed as a gamer whereas the game has stayed static.
When it comes to Classic (and I'm someone who began my WoW time during the very end of Vanilla, but didn't really get heavy into the game until WOTLK), I'm sure many players are running into that wall. The OG Vanilla players have lived entire lives since that period. They've graduated from college, gotten married, had kids, progressed in the careers, and have seen their social circles expand considerably with the progression of technology and the fact that, as adults, they can simply do more shit with more people than they could as kids or teenagers. Because of that, the one element of WoW (and MMOs of that era in general) that is going to be lost is the community/communication aspect that playing a MMO provided. Prior to the rise of social media, MMOs WERE social media, and many design elements of the gameplay were built around that concept.
The issue arises when the necessity of the social media aspect of the MMO is no longer there. If a player is stuck on a boss, they no longer need to reach out to someone in game who has experience: they can go to CZcams. They no longer need to develop a friend's group of fellow in-game players who are strangers: they can call/text/message their friends from real-life and ask them if they want to play. The natural curiosity of a new area, new dungeon, or new raid is lost because none of these things are actually new. None of these things are actually hidden. None of these things are so arcane as to require specialized knowledge or acceptance into a specific group in order to have access to them.
In order for any of those things to even come close to being the case with Classic (regardless of iteration), you'd either have to be a person who had absolutely NO KNOWLEDGE OR EXPERIENCE of WoW whatsoever (and those people are the least likely to even buy the game in the first place, let alone buy the game and jump directly into Classic), or you'd have to artificially limit yourself in a way that is either impossible (good luck forcing yourself to forget something) or unsustainable (playing the game in a way reminiscent to 2004-2006 but with access to the breadth of technology and information of 2024). A playerbase composed of people in either of those categories is incredibly small and not financially viable to be catered to.
The truth is that the people who play WoW, or any MMO, for the specific purpose of socializing are going to do so regardless of the iteration of the game. Artificially inducing socialization aspects would only serve to alienate the majority of the playerbase who will socialize only when it's a means to an end. In the end, MMOs cannot survive in the current technological era as conduits for socialization. Non-game social media entities have eaten their lunch in that respect, and those companies have a huge incentive to maintain the status quo. The other reality is that MMO developers have a rather significant monetary incentive to avoid turning their games into conduits for socializing, because as you said, there are MASSIVE diminishing returns when it comes to both playback of old elements of specific MMOs, and the fact that socializing can occur in any form of the game so long as the ones socializing DESIRE to do so.
As someone who played plenty of the old school MMOs during the golden era, I am nostalgic in many ways. But I'm also realistic. I was a young teen in Florida who could interact with people all across the country and the world for the first time ever, and have fun doing it at a relatively low cost. I'm not a 33 year old man who can travel to these places and do a hell of a lot more in-person socializing in manners that an MMO, even during the golden era, couldn't provide. There's simply no comparison, and while it sucks that there are gonna be generations of MMO players who missed out on that, it's the nature of the progression of time. Just as I missed the era where going to the local arcade was the pinnacle of gaming unless you were relatively well off, these newcomers are going to miss the era of MMOs where much of your play time was spent shooting the shit. There's no going back, nor getting it back, so I bristle at the thought of contrived means of accomplishing the unaccomplishable.
It has nothing to do with nostalgia at all. That argument has been debunked relentlessly.
@@chrisclement5091 I don't think it's fair to say nostalgia has NOTHING to do with it. It's part of the magic
@@erp7625 well I'll amend my argument to the element of nostalgia is negligible.
@@chrisclement5091 Well, since you're a mind reader apparently, what would it be then? I find it incredibly naive to think that the people clamoring for Classic were not people looking to relive a WoW that no longer existed, the very definition of nostalgic thinking.
To say that the element of nostalgia on the part of Classic players and those who were most vocal about Classic becoming a thing was negligible is just silly on its face.
If you take the athletic sport of hurdling.. and look at it metaphorically in the way game developers do things to "improve them"
Remove the requirement of hurdles because some people couldn't jump high enough.
Remove the requirement of running because some people are too slow.
Remove the requirement of having people competing with you.
What are you left with?.. nothing.. now you're just walking from A to B for literally no reason.. that's what WoW is now.
that is why I want a server where all mobs are elite. Lets create a hurdle and see what happens.
@@snuffeldjuret amen brother.. all the hurdles, only champions.
Brother, your ratio of good opinions to bad opinions is outstanding. It genuinely gets me giddy to find this person that "gets it", and it's even better that you have a large audience that resonates. I want to kiss you on the mouth.
Back when he streamed, Kevin Jordan asked a few times whether we wanted current Blizzard devs to develop vanilla further. In retrospect, he had a point...
He quit streaming? Is he back making games?
You mean that very same Kevin Jordan who made TBC which people hated but now love, made WOTLK which people loved but now hate, also worked on Cata ?
Guy is only good at talking shit and skirting his own failures lol
@@warpbeast69 Although what you mention is true, I don't see how that downplays his point. His contribution to the overall design of the game as a percentage of the total contribution different people made goes down dramatically as the years went by.
@@warpbeast69 I thought most of the old team had moved on by the time they were developing Wrath. Pretty sure Wrath was Ghostcrawler's baby.
That Mavis Beacon reference visibly aged me; I’m now shot full of wrinkles and shopping for suspenders. Thanks, Madseason.
"The sacrificial alter of convenience" is such an elegant illustration of what's been happening with wow since 2004
I was okay through phase 2 of SoD. What killed it for me is ultimately everything that put my guild on hiatus through the second half of the phase and likely through the next phase. We didn’t transition smoothly to 20p content from 10p, we had 18 on a good night and even though recruitment was going well schedules didn’t line up enough, causing us to pug 2-6 people every week who didn’t want to respect how we did loot and as a result a lot of our progression power left the moment we killed the last boss for the night. But the group was all just sick of doing the raid, with what felt like never ending trash. At this point out of the remaining members, only two seem excited for phase 4, with the rest not seeming to care too much. It wasn’t the incursions that broke us, it was Sunken Temple.
I started enjoying games more when i stopped followingvwhat everyone online said. Watch it by all means but man a lot of these videos are just depressing. I just enjoy what I'm playing.
one thing I discovered was impossible to find any guide for on the internet was:
witcher 3 hc (one life)
I play on hardest difficulty, no bad guy looting and no witcher gear
it is so enjoyable
I agree, and think that part of that reasoning is how "spoiled" we are as consumers and players. Seems like people get bored if there isn't a content patch once per month.
You're right about that Naxx thing and how we couldn't clear it and WoW just grew exponentially. It's that word of mouth.. That sword in the proverbial stone.. Everyone wants to come around and see what's so hard about it.. See if they can be the one to do it.. Look at how the difficulty alone (and the word of mouth that brings) built an entire genre out of the Dark Souls games..
YES. WE ALREADY HAD THIS CONVERSATION MADSEASONSHOW
The analogy about cooking the same recipe as your mom did hits home dude. I love all versions of WoW, but classic is just the best
When I played private servers, I enjoyed the social aspect being back.
Just talking, wating for a timer to end to go do stuff; roleplaying and having fun. Just like it was back then, but over the past 4 years I noticed something that most mmorpg's had and was slowly creeping into the same private servers... the socialising was going. People were avoiding talking, getting defensive; even trying to pick fights for no reason. It got to the point where everyone was either AFK or rushing to do the latest content and when they did it, went on an alt to do it over and over again. Not talking but in their own bubble.
I know the 2020 situation didn't help, but even then ppl were social. In fact ppl were more social online; but over time it faded. Even ff14 before the Endwalker ppl felt nicer, they talked to you; you joked, had fun and laughed. After the expansion came out ppl started to stop. In fact it felt like a wave of toxic and mean people just crawled in and jokes I was used to be able to say in a matter of months, suddenly became a means for insults of war. (One I remember was a short joke because I was a lalafell and short irl, so it was fun to laugh at myself and my character, but ppl got really angry about it despite me telling them I was refering to me. Even weirder, non of them were lalafell.)
I don't know what happened but it feels like the world, not just the internet; has lost hope. Lost their heart and instead of trying to create something new like say... talking. They have instead decided to isolate themselves from a fantasy world to do small goals that they think will make them happy; but what they needed was the thing they were pushing away from the start....
...anyway! Time to watch the video! Sorry for the rant, just wanted to get that out first to see if anything is covered or maybe able to add it it. If not, well it's all out anyway. :p
What happened in Endwalker is WoW players flooded ff14 and ruined it.
good comment
@@nolger6907 Thanks! 👍
@@horuslupercal392 That's a huge possibility as I believe I started to notice it around that time wow was going downhill. (I think it might be shadowlands or that period of wait afterwards.)
Either way it did feel very WoW Retail at the time. It was one of the main reasons I stopped playing ff14 after the story was done.
I agree with you, I always argued that one of the biggest and positive aspects of MMORPGs - or MP games in general - is the social aspect and interaction with other players. The more a MP/online games centers around on the lone player instead of the playerbase as a whole is when you might as well just make it a SP game. If you don't want to socialize with other players that's fine, but why play a MP game?
I havent played classic in a long time, but I still play Old School Runescape to this day... maybe they could learn something from jagex.
Don't rush the John Lennon statement cause if history serves, Lennon got shot because the dude who did it was pissed about the fact Lennon went from fuck Capitalism, peace and love, flower power to someone who was making music to live in his penthouse in manatthan next to central park with his wife.... in a way, Blizz has become John Lennon... went from to Players first to Pockets first
"People stop playing your game because you've removed reasons to play your game." This. Exactly this. Hey gamers! Play our game, or pay us extra money to not play our game!
If road rules and speed limits were governed by global public vote.. then we'd all be dead.
i love this channel and been watching since 2016 but i feel like he is making the same content over and over recycling the same concepts from previous videos
Fitting for the game he is covering
Your videos bring me a peace and serenity like nothing else.
Godspeed Mad Season.
I like how the story of RuneScape parallels wow;however, they made the right decisions.
RuneScape had their success. Started to fail with “modernized” game design. Released a classic mode, then did their classic+. OSRS is successful.
This all happened before WoWs classic servers were released.
Becouse tha game is being popupated by try harders and min-maxers and even casuals have this mindset nowdays but still not enough against sweaty people. Remember when we used to play only single player games on nes, snes, gameboy, etc........... now the time has come.
"i told you so by the way"
you and everyone else with a lick of sense, buddy...
Buddy is such a h8ful generic npc word phrase 😂😂😂
@@cazimim3375 mate*
Even in era, I feel the community has lost sight of what made classic so great
People love classic, but can't help but try to remove what made it so great. I'm convinced people simply can't think deeply enough to understand what makes a game great anymore. I know that's arrogant of me to say buy I'm confident it's true.
“Imagine how dumb the Average person is…now think about the fact that 50% are even dumber statistically“
I was watching sold old pvp videos from 2019 classic and spell batching looked so bad, I'm glad it is gone lol.
A large part of actual vanilla wow was the leveling experience. Though the first couple of expansions were just excellence, they completely changed the way forward with how the game gave players the feeling of achievement and progression.
That said, every so often a close to true private server arises and I do enjoy those for quite some time.
I'm taking a huge bong hit every time MadSeason says "Told ya so by the way"
I FUCKING love turtle wow. i play this game 21 hours a day with 2 hours to sleep and even when i do sleep i wake up SHAKING in a cold sweat wanting to play turtlewow. im PHYSICALLY ill when im not playing turtlewow. this is what i call DEDICATION!!
This comment has me howling lmaooo
What makes it great?
@@user-ec2ex7rz7l I FUCKING love turtle wow. i play this game 21 hours a day with 2 hours to sleep and even when i do sleep i wake up SHAKING in a cold sweat wanting to play turtlewow. im PHYSICALLY ill when im not playing turtlewow. this is what i call DEDICATION!!
@@Horstolord04 I FUCKING love turtle wow. i play this game 21 hours a day with 2 hours to sleep and even when i do sleep i wake up SHAKING in a cold sweat wanting to play turtlewow. im PHYSICALLY ill when im not playing turtlewow. this is what i call DEDICATION!!
@@nicholas_muccini_coach But have you tried the Switchaxe?!
Layers destroyed servers. Not being able to run into friends in world randomly. People layering trying to wpvp. Layering when doing quests. Whichever dev made layering should be fired and never work in the industry again. In fact just fire everyone in blizzard. Hire people that actually play the damn game.
Without layering: WHAAA! I CAN'T GET KILLS ON A MOB!!! It is a solution to a very real problem that existed back then
This. When they introduced them (I think it was like.. 3 days in) I already saw the future. When they announced TBC level boost/mount I knew it's time to stop playing.
@@michaelkovalsky4907 That happened with the layering anyways.
@@michaelkovalsky4907 you sound dumb af
Layers really aren't as relevant as the Wah section of the classic community makes it out to be
Cross-server dungeon finder was DISASTROUS for community spirit.
Not only were groups automatic, you'd never end up with people from your own server.
So there was literally no point in trying to make new friends because you'd likely never see them again anyway.
After the announcement of season 4, I’m really worried nothing of the classic + contents I was hoping for will actually come to life.
And I also agree, it’s all too fast.
The answer is yes
The only thing I'm searching for is chronic liver disease, and I will not stop until I get there.
Hell yeah brother
the ultimate rep grind.
Thank you so much for including links to background tracks in the description. Underated and appreciated.
Ive been playing the vanilla server and ive been running into randoms daily, people love interacting and grouping there, at least on whitemane and that server group.
O.G. Classic was lightning in a bottle. Now I genuinely believe it would've been successful regardless of when it was released, but it being released during the peak of covid really fueled the engagement factor. Everybody was stuck at home with nothing to do.
The problem with WoW is that there is no retention to the game itself, just subsequent expansions and with each passing expansion you start to fracture the player base with those who wany to stay in that specific time period and those wanting to continue on. The biggest problem surrounding it all is the fact that Blizzard is at the helm, and they're going to do WHATEVER they can to monetize the shit out of their game.
I think a server capped in the 1-60 OG game can stay relevant for a period of time, but that crowd will be somewhat niche, and you'll probably only see heavy engagement a few nights a week.
SoD could prove to be successful but it appears the engagement is very wavy. High engagement at the release of a new phase and a drastic drop off over the following weeks/months.
I think a lot of people would like to see a new version of Classic that has active development and resources put into new content for that time period WITHOUT retails influences and additions.
This is all just my opinion however. I'm not terribly interested in making a seasonal character that won't really have a future but a new Classic server that has new features/raids/dungeons/quests/zones set in the 1-60 timeline without things like the wow token and cash shop I would be willing to give it a go.
You can see a super big player boost first week of covid in raiding numbers xD
I love your video's man, but I feel like you're turning into a broken record. The first thing I thought when I saw this video's title was 'Oh look, another MadSeason video about how WoW isn't what it once was'.
This is kinda true, but as they say misery loves company and people who feel the same way will just keep watching.
As someone who's biggest hurdle to raiding actually is the social aspect, because the only guilds I've ever been in were either a little weird or just couldn't keep it together for more than a couple weeks before breaking apart, I prefer to either have just one difficulty or all the ones with lfr included.
To elaborate a lil futher on my guild issues, they were either kind of toxic or had this weird try hard attitude as if they were trying to have a shot at server first, while being nowhere close to that. The inbetween state where we had normal and heoric during wrath and cata gave me a hard time as I'm not putting as much time into game as I guess most raiders do, and it took me longer to get the necessary gear for normal raids, so when I finally got there people had already moved on to doing heroic mode and I just couldn't find anyone doing a normal mode run anymore (in the case of ICC when I had actually tried). Meanwhile GDKP runs got INSANELY expensive thanks to wow tokens, so those weren't an option either.
Watching vanilla servers grow again after cata classic rlease is almost mirroring how private servers started to grow after cata was out. A lot of vanilla servers started at that point, and were fully going by the end of mop, with Wrath servers popping up as well in that time. Watching ppl do it all over again is kind of fascinating and cyclical. At some point you wanna go home. Vanilla is home.
The community never even wanted to play classic. All they wanted was cooking up a nightmare soup of people minmaxing and world buffing the hell out of a game that's so fucking easy it makes LFR look like hardcore raiding.
Not to mention buying massive amounts of gold from bots and buying boosting services from mages rather than actually playing the game yourself so all the servers were basically dead outside of endgame content as soon as phase 2 hit and most people had gotten one level 60 character.
Well that is kind of a Classic only thing, you can become so powerful that there is no challenge, min maxing is fun, and it's a big part of RPG, but the time you get to min max everything being determined by microtransactions and exploits is where the fun ends, ban the bots and if you can ban the bots make gold less valuable, so players don't feel like they need to buy it, aka ban gdkp and boosting.
I wanted to play classic, and I did play classic.
41:30 Have you tried Turtle WoW my dude? I got my friend hooked on it.
SOD just took things to far. I understand they wanted to test everything. I feel like people like me just wanted some of the non meta specs to be brought up to give a little variety to tanking/healing/DPS in classic and that would have been fine for me. If they can get that right then add the new 5 mans and raiding content later I would be fine with it.
i think its quite funny that classic of all things has bred this player base that utterly despises any challenge. the classic community has perfectly repeated the retail timeline
SoD is not in the spirit of Classic. To be honest I just want a Burning Crusade server with no boosts. That was all I wanted overall. It's my favorite expansion and they completely bastardized it.
Sod had some minor classic philosophy behind it for the first phase of 6 whole weeks.
After that they basically made every class a retailified version of their class and called it a day.
Fresh vanilla eternal servers no boost no exp no nothing
And no Chronoboon!
@@wrathcrusadehow about no worldbuffs at all? If you’re going to have them, you might as well have chronoboon
I'd prefer eternal TBC servers, which never expand to Wrath. But I'd settle for eternal Vanilla.
no addons
just let us host our own servers the game is dead
You are lying to your if you think that in original BC and Wrath the vanilla zones were part of the game , this zones were so empty that people couldn't complete group quests and it made level take even longer , this was one of the biggest reasons why Blizzard remade this zones in Cata.
I'm sorry but even in the rest of the video it shows a very big lack of information of how retial works and is right now.
Better of leaving classic with changes to servers like Turtle WoW, Project Epoch etc. Blizzard have shown us "twice" now with SoM and SoD that they are utterly incapable of making additional content for Vanilla in an evergreen way without damaging the game in the process.
SoD is retail minus. No plus there.
Blizzard lost me when they didn't bring TBC Era. I knew that means that there will be no Wotlk Era, which I would've played on until I passed out.
The thought of the content I love and the Game State I loved being ruined AGAIN by Cata pushed me away instantly.
If you like WotLK, you will like Cata, makes no sense to dislike Cata if you like WotLK as Cata is simply better.
@@badass6300Not true, i love classic to wrath but cata is Just retail in classic grafics, No fun for me
@@gx92muc Cata literally has the same philosophy of WotLK, but polished and improved.
@@badass6300 Personally, the thing I want Classic for is the old world that you can't see in retail anymore because Cata destroyed it.
@@badass6300 maybe for you but not for me, its same like retail style like i said, Flying mounts everywhere, portals everywhere, easier faster questing and so on
One year life cirkle. Start phase 2 and no dot limit, chromo and 1,15 exp for slaying. 1,25 quest exp. 1,33 for rested gained. No boost and gg’s
Here I am 20 years later and I still havent raided MC once in my life
TBC server with no store/token/boosts would be pppoggerinos
And rebalanced classes. Having your hunter dungeon set being BIS for the whole xpac was pretty fuckin dumb.
@@jurpo6 hunter dungeon set was not bis the whole expac. It was bis in phase 1 when the raids were kara, mag and gruul. Wasn't a big deal, more of a blessing in disguise. It was all replaced with tier 5 in phase 2.
@@jurpo6 You didn't play TBC did you ?
Would change literally nothing as the early TBC had none of that stuff and people still shat on it, wake up, stop parrotting dumb arguments on something you've clearly not played, you just watched videos and decided to hate it.
And with SoD's faction balance system.
I was so mad seeing the retail rats slowly take over classic. And I say this as someone who also plays retail. I wanted classic to be classic. At least era still exists.
Honest question because I don’t know… do the private servers have logs/parsing as a gate keeper to raiding like Blizzard servers do?
To me I feel like that “Logs/Parsing” is all part of the equation, too. Vanilla had DPS meters - but they weren’t the end all be all … you didn’t even know how “bad” someone’s DPS was until you’re already into the raid and no one wants to stop just to go back to town to backfill one average dude.
As an Old school runescape player, i feel bad for classic wow fans.
In OSRS, the community has to vote yes by at least 70% in polls for anything to be added to the game. :(
Recently Everlook had fresh release and the only population was on launch, few hours and initial zones fully empty, people rushing and overoptimizing. It's slightly naive to expect people to play like 20 years ago ;)
the "No changes" crowd was never about the purity of the gaming experience, it was about having the advantage of grinding vanilla on privates for 10 years, knowing all the exploits and buff stacking and of course dungeon boosting paths.
I think the biggest misrepresentation in this video is that "ST got nerved because people couldn't clear it day 1".
It's a small complaint, but I would look into how wildly overturned it was, where the sweatiest raiders with more time and resources were barely able to clear it if at all.
You do know it's nerf right?
''I told you so'' Every time I hear that it gives me the warm fuzzies.
Literally if we get no world buffs in a new run of classic vanilla (as well as possibly progressive gear for each phase) it would be perfect.
Not objectively, but maybe in your opinion.
So world of warrior craft with no worldbuffs. Wow classic needs int to give spell power for it to work again.
@@hundrick186 Nah, objectively. World buffs are purely a negative on the game.
@@jurpo6 Warriors benefit the most from world buffs, so your comment is invalid.
that was Season of mastery, and it failed hard