Tim McLean Murder (Vince Li) | Mental Health & Personality
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- čas přidán 19. 11. 2020
- This video answers the question: Can I discuss the mental health and personality factors that may be at work in the Tim McLean murder case? McLean was murdered by Vince Li in 2008.
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American Psychiatric Association. (2013). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th ed.). Arlington, VA: Author.
web.archive.org/web/201007151...
web.archive.org/web/200903151...
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...
www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/vince...
www.timslaw.ca/2009/04/18/vin...
www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...
steinbachonline.com/local/a-c...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti....
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti....
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I'm Canadian and no one wanted him released. Justice denied for the McLean family, friends, loved ones, and the public.
Didn't you guys have a trans rememberence day? That's the important thing.....
@@raphk9599 Be gone troll.
@@alijane6675 what about Karla Homolka?
We really should stop tolerating this. We are in a sick abusive relationship and the narc abuser is our parasitic Government. Violent. Corrupt. Insane.
@Ali Jane one of the best in the world? for who, for criminals?
you're deluded if you think canada is all great and high and mighty. in China, vince would have been killed or executed, which many more people would have been okay with.
ungrateful for privilege? lol what, the, fk?
every criminal or violent act should be deemed okay because its not them doing it, it's their ego and mental illness that did it.
Go take a nap next to Vince, and report how peaceful it was buttercup
I am a retired psychiatric technician/med nurse who worked in maximum security forensic psychiatric facilities with similar cases. We would NEVER release someone like Li. Never Ever Ever release a case like Li.
Exactly! Thanks for sharing
I live in Canada and I remember this story extremely well, based on how graphic and disturbing the crime was. I fully agree that he never should have been released from the psychiatric facility. He knew he had a severe mental illness and refused treatment before the crime. In my opinion that makes him fully responsible for his actions. My heart goes out to the victims family. RIP Tim McLean.
Well, refusing treatment is very frequent for people with psychosis and schizophrenia. Because their delusions make them believe that everyone is out to get them or harm them. In the overwhelming majority of cases, this does not lead to gruesome murders, but homelessness, suicide, and suffering.
Exactly. For the most part I’m as liberal as can be. But, if you refuse to brush your teeth, it’s your fault they rot. You refuse to take your psychiatric medication(regardless of being in a delusional state) the consequences of your actions are your fault. If you harm someone while in a delusional or psychotic state, you should be given the same sentence and treatment as someone who was lucid and in a normal state of mind when they commited the same crime.
He also seemed mad at his wife before maybe they were splitting up so he killled this guy in a rage pissed off. Some people are like this. They go around and attack others and even killll when they are so mad things not going their way and they want to take out and killl random person. I think he was in rage thinking about his wife and it just boiled over and he choose to stab that guy in this moment. It was not like he was doing this his whole life or even as a kid. It seems something really important to him was not going his way so he acted like this. I think he liked shocking people too and showing them. I agree with you he should never be released someone that could do this to somebody else
Agree
No one is morally responsible. Do you know what your next thought is going to be? Of course not. And yet your next thought defines every action you ever take, every opinion you ever have, your next thought defines who you are. There is no free will in this world. The man should still have been kept locked up because he was a danger, not because he morally deserves or that he is responsible
Lee should never have been released unconditionally. 7 years in jail is nothing. A person who has committed such an insanely violent murder will never be normal. I am outraged that the justice system would release him back into society. If Lee ever offends again the people in authority should be sued personally.
he has been out for 5 years now. and not committed any crimes. Nor was he convicted of crimes before the incident. I disagree with the complete discharge and he should have been at least seeing councilors once a week, but having in prison wasnt make the crime go away.
He wasn't in jail, he was in a mental health facility
Unfortunately, your premise that “normal” people couldn’t commit a crime similar to Lis, is not true. Look at the Nazi’s who did just as bad, and worse things to people. And those Nazi’s who escaped the rope by fleeing lived perfectly normal, undetected lives. The government will never protect its citizens against deviant individuals unless the government is made to by the citizens. All citizens who disagree with Li being free should write a letter a month to the people who allowed this man to walk free, and also March to the capitol holding signs about the abuse of government, and justice in this case.
I think Li’s first offense is enough. He does not need a second chance.
@@shawnaweesner3759 what a dumb reply. Forcing people that had nothing to do with the situation is compelled speech and just as bad as censorship.
Imagine how Tim's loved ones must feel knowing he's out on the streets and unsupervised.
His mom has been VERY outspoken in our media, ever since the horrific incident.
rehabilitation is one of the pillars of law enforcement despite the heinous details of the crime. He has been a productive member of society. so what good is tax payers paying for his indefinite life in prison?
@@woodsbre It's a bit strange to suggest that Economics supercedes Psychiatry, Psychology and the law in this case. But even in Economics, there's a difference between the 'nominal' value and the 'real' value of money, and I question which is being referred to here regarding the tax-payer's money, the lives of the victim, the perpetrator and the tax-payers themselves.
@@uchehasenpai727 the law in theory treats everyone as equal. A murderer can be redeemed so the law must treat all murders as redeemable. Or its not being equal. Lee did not have any prior incidents with law enforcement nor has had any since his partial freedom in 2014 and full freedom since 2017. At what point do we say he can go back to society to contribute?
And I dont want to hear the appeal to emotions fallacy about "what about tims life, he is dead and his family has to permanently grieve now."
This is not enough to keep someone in jail permanently.
I remember the day Tim's death happened like it was yesterday. None of us could believe what happened... and then to hear that Li was to be released 9 yrs later with a new name was unfathomable. I still can't wrap my mind around it. Canada has always been too lenient on those who are mentally ill and commit crimes. Most Canadian's would agree with that.
My son switched busses in Regina heading to Winnipeg this night, I didn’t know he switched. I heard on the news that this happened and I collapsed, I thought this was my son who was be headed. I also recall working behind a building that attached to where Li was a caretaker, I saw him on a regular basis, never spoke but saw him. My brother is chronic paranoid schizophrenic, when he found out about Tim, although not knowing him personally, he cried. He said, “ I’m crazy, but I would never hurt anyone”. This was a very sad time for our City and surround area and still to this day, we mourn for Tim and for for his family and friends. My belief is whole heartedly that the doctors failed Li and the justice system failed everyone.
I'm the new justice
@@buddyholly9960 ?
This really moved me -- what you said. I can imagine you collapsing because you thought it was your son. And that was so sad what your brother said -- that he would never hurt anyone.
Thank God
God bless you and your son. ❤
I can't comprehend how courts can fail so miserably.
The courts did nt fail on this one it was the doctors who did.
Doctors and the courts failed equally.
Empathy is one hell of a drug
@@littlelulu4107 The courts didn't fail. In Canada, if you are found to have a mental illness that contributed to the crime, you're found not criminally responsible and a big team of Dr's controls the rest of your case. This isn't like he was medicated then let free, it was 7 years of intense therapy, community living and being monitored. They don't deem you well then push you out the door.
@jib jabs mcadoo I dont think its a matter of believing he is safe, I think its a matter of knowing that they have a ton of hoops to jump through to ever even get absolute release and he managed to meet that criteria. I have a friend who is 15 years out and has not met the criteria for absolute release while she lives and works in the community, they still have conditions and talk to her and check her med levels etc. I am saying that NO ONE, not even a doctor, could have predicted he would decapitate someone and cannibalize them, and not even a Dr can say he will ever do that again. I strongly believe that we can't judge people on things they've yet to do. He was cleared in what, 2017 and has not had any type of reoffence, which is great. I realize not everyone stays on their meds, but I also know that he would have been community living with supervision for a while before his absolute release and that they would have made this decision based on his behaviours. You can't fake being healthy, not when it comes to mental illness, especially schizophrenia. I have more fear about the people who commit crimes and suffer mental illness who literally never get help and fall through the cracks then I do about someone like Li.
I live in Winnipeg. Tim was a friend of mines nephew. I’ve also spent a lot of time in Erickson. This story hits very close to home. I believe that our entire province is still trying to process this. There is so much anger at the rcmp and mental health “experts” who recommended his release.
I also work at a church. We had a private funeral for one of the rcmp officers who was first on scene. He suffered from ptsd, and ended up committing suicide.
Our city was/is in fear when Li was released.
Thank you for this video. 💔😢🇨🇦
😔
So so sad
It was an almost inconceivable crime. At that time we rode the ‘hound’ everywhere. Tim’s horrific death touched all of us.
I have a friend who is schizophrenic and he was arrested for disturbing the peace (yelling). He has been court ordered for years and years now to take his medication and continue to work with his mental health team.
I’m in Winnipeg too. This man still crosses my mind very frequently. When is the last time he saw a doctor? Is he taking medication? Is he taking the proper medication for his CURRENT state?? Does he work with the public?? It’s been years and so many of us still wonder and worry. The justice system failed Tim, his entire family, every single witness of that unfathomable murder, and they even failed Vince Li himself. He needs a lot more help than he received. It was a catastrophic failure from every angle.
I'm sorry for you and your nephew's loss.
I'm in NB, and we just found out that Mr. Raymond was declared not criminally responsible for the 4 shooting deaths he caused here. I'm honestly not surprised he wasn't... hell, I think it was even the right thing, considering what we know schizophrenia can do to people, but he needs to be kept under care and taking his medication, he can't function in society without it and is an obvious danger to society. It's that... fine line, you know? What they did with Li was wrong. He needs help; not just for society but for himself. He and you all deserve better.
I also hope you're staying as safe as you can; I know covid's being a real time up in Manitoba. Take care, okay?
I’m sure I’m not alone in thinking we need more doctors like you in the positions these other professionals are in making poor judgmental choices and lacking in science.
It seems that the professionals making the decisions were not competent. The figures regarding continued incidences of psychoses would have when taking medication would have been known to them.
The problem is also the courts though. The courts should've had methods of having the public appeal a decision like this.
Well, when you suffer from such mental illnesses the voices you hear aren't exactly going to tell you to do anything good. Because of just how messed up the mind is, the delusions and hallucinations which appear are never good.
@Willy Wonka ....well in Canada we've never experienced this kind of blantant public beheading on a greyhound bus since its inception, so yeah I'd say it's an anomaly in that sense.
@@quasar7683 still butchered a person with a future to live
I wonder if any kind of therapy was offered to the police officers and others who witnessed this horrific attack. My condolences to the family of the officer who took his own life.
In Canada? Anyone can seek FREE mental health services at any time even without some sort of trauma like this. However, they always send in extra help in any type of traumatic situation.
@@MarisaAndChew this is rather an overstatement....being Canadian myself, we have decent access to care, but not to the extent you seem to think.
@@Youwinmeta As someone who has PTSD and who has also had friends found NCR, I have never had any issues with getting FREE and readily accessible mental health care, and I am in a very small community. People often don't realize their towns are full of resources, but most are!
@@MarisaAndChew I'm glad you had the good fortune of accessing care in a timely manner.
But access to care really depends on where you live. It took me over a year to be seen by a psychiatrist. There is no true Canadian system, only provincial. And even within a be province there can be major differences
@@danicarr6625 My town has one psychiatrist who i have never met as he only sees patients who have been admitted. My family Dr speaks to him regularly though to consult. The health unit has registered therapists that are covered by OHIP.
I can’t believe he ever got out of custody. This is horrible!
I can't believe he got out the bus alive.
I can.
@@evelynbrown9809 Me too... Oh Canada :(
If a person wishes to commit murder and later be freed, Canada and the U.K. are the places to consider. While I love those countries (my grandfather was from Britain), it seems a horrible injustice that a murderer can kill one or more people and be freed in 20-25 years or even less.
@@josi4251 In Canada you have to work pretty hard to serve 25 years in jail. Most murderers don't get nearly that long. 10 years and you're good, one guy in Alberta served 7 years for killing his gf
The image of Li sitting on a bench with his eyes wide open at 3 am is straight out of a nightmare.
no one wants to see
That's so fucking strange and creepy man
I live in Canada and can tell you that I, and most others, find the outcome of this case to be absolutely abhorrent. I would love to send this video to the Parole Board of Canada along with any of the so-called "mental health experts", and anyone else who had anything whatsoever to do with his release. The Canadian Justice system is, for the most part, an embarrassment.
That's cool. But you aren't going to do anything about it. So stuff your sorrys in a sack, mister.
Lol for the most part? I agree this case wasnt handled properly but the justice system in Canada far surprasses those of other countries. If you dont believe that try living in America
@Yep Yep I think that if I personally was to be charged with a crime and/or acquitted/convicted I would rather have that experience in Canada than in America. And I'm not supporting criminals by saying that but pointing out that regardless if eventual outcome is innocent or guilty the justice system in Canada from start to end is significantly more humane and fair than in the States. Especially for non violent offenders such as those involved in drug cases or young offenders. And especially considering the death penaty and the fact that individual states vary widely in terms of their punishments for crimes. For ex in one state you might get the death penalty while in another state you might get 40 years and be out in 25
@Yep Yep and I wasn't at all comparing which place is better to live in overall just the justice system. I've lived mostly in Canada but also in America and I by far prefer America and would move there permanently if I had citizenship. However the one negative in America has always been the justice system. Just getting pulled over for a simple traffic stop I'm much more nervous with American police than Canadian. Just their general conduct and behaviour is markedly different. They're overall more aggressive and intimidating. Even when you drive in/out through customs there's a huge difference in how the officers are taught and trained to behave with the public
Again we as Canadians are embarrassed by the Canadian Justice System. There is no concern for the victim and their family ; just for the criminal.
We are all responsible for our actions. Keep all the left wingers out of it.
My heart goes out to Tim's family.
Condolences to Tim McLean and his family, he is in a better place in heaven.
I remember this gruesome case. It was hard to believe that something this violent and horrific could happen in such an ordinary setting like a Grayhound bus, but of course in reality, violence could erupt anywhere at anytime particularly when it involves mental illness. Vince Li should have been institutionalized for life under constant supervision. I wasn't aware that a police officier involved took his own life due to PTSD. What a tragic case.
Yeah and the Greyhound bus is no more. Some ppl say it's bc of this crime that they lost ridership...scared the bejeezus out of everyone ..
@@RandomCZcams123 My goodness, what a crazy ride. I guess you should feel lucky you survived the trip relatively unscathed. I'm an oldie. I took my one and only Greyhound bus way, way back thirty years ago going home for Christmas from Edmonton to Vancouver. The only wild thing was someone stuffing some tissue up the overhead light and the resulting smoke led the bus attendant to come running to take it out -- then swearing because he thought he burned his fingers. Everyone was pretty well behaved. If I had known then that all it took to get stabbed/beheaded was falling asleep beside someone suffering from severe mental illness I wouldn't have slept at all throughout the 16 hour trip. I never took another Greyhound bus because it was just too hard, not because I thought it was dangerous. I opted for a much quicker ride on a plane from then on.
@@RandomCZcams123 We had this "roid" stuff on routes to Ft. McMurray. But for the most part Greyhound in Canada was a lot of skiers, Australians, and natives who didn't have a car for various reasons. Greyhound Canada added pretty serious security after this incident. I actually worked for the same company providing security but in a different industry.
@Amanda in the 80's i took a bus ride from Ft Mac to North Sydney and had no problems but Canada is not safe like it used to be. I can surmise as to why but we are not allowed to say anything about some of the neg effects of globalization on our country without appearing to be racist. I just want a safe place for our children to grow up but those days are long gone.
@@littlelulu4107 - you surmise correctly if you are going to try to connect an increase in crime to immigration. If that is what you wanted to say then you would be racist.
This is such a disturbing case!! I can't believe he got released so quickly! Great video, doc! Thank you for covering this case!!
@Ed Ducate that case is so infuriating!!! 🤬🤬🤬🤬 alot people idolized him for quite awhile, he made alot of money from it too! He released a cook book and made his own porn movies!🤢🤮
Why so much excitement
L
My son has schizophrenia and we have been through hell trying to get him to stay on his meds. He believes he is fine and we are trying to force him. Its really been hard because now he wont talk to us and is very angry with us.. Its such a horrible disease
Hope everything is going well 🙏🏽
Is he on Trilafon? It is very effective!
I’m going through the same
Why doesn’t god ever tell them to do something useful like to decorate the lounge. “You know, I was just sitting there and god told me I had to decorate the lounge. I had no choice, god told me to”
He does, thousands and thousands. It’s a cruel illness, especially in psychosis. I think he should have been detained in a secure facility.
BEAUTIFUL! .. or God told me to do myself in!
God told me to exercise and eat more vegetables.
I'm pretty sure schizophrenics hear all types of things. The cases we hear about in the media are the extreme ones. It's not as shocking or interesting for people to hear about the mentally ill who hear flowers talking to them and spend all day picking them or those that hear voices telling them that they're the evil ones and then mutiliating and/or killing themselves
@@declankelly9829 actually schizophrenics do hear that a lot. Just look up their suicide rates compared to others
As horrible as this case is, I can't help but be impressed by the bus drivers' quick thinking.
There were a lot of incredible people doing their best to keep the public safe in this case. Unfortunately, none of them were in positions of power (aka the police, RCMP, mental health professionals, or the justice system)
@@danicarr6625 Looks like the mental "health" professionals in this case held all the power.
The damper switch!
@@danicarr6625 yup
@@jguenther3049 yup
If you murder someone and physically remove their head and eat their flesh, you should never be released into society. Tim and his family did not get the justice they deserved.
Dr Grande I really appreciate your analysis of this case, especially your criticisms of the doctors. I do believe they put too much stock in his pleasant personality (when medicated) and his regrets and understanding of what he did. He may have a better understanding of his illness and may never stop taking his meds again, but to grant him unconditional release... I feel like it makes a joke of the forensic mental health system in Canada. Thank you for articulating why the decision was a bad one.
This case and its outcome infuriates me still to this day. I find it to be ridiculous that he claims to know every detail of what he did, yet he had no control. How does that even make sense with the excuse that he wasn't responsible...
This is one of the most shameful cases in modern Canadian history. The police let him continue with his attack and then the justice system failed the McLean family.
I live in Winnipeg. It’s terrifying to think this guy is roaming free now with no supervision by the courts. Apparently he works at a Salisbury House (restaurant) now. This case will always haunt me, I can’t imagine how Tim’s family feels.
I heard he moved to the usa. I hope hes still in canadia.
I can’t believe someone in his family hasn’t ironed out this guy
Which Salisbury? So I can get revenge. This fool should be in jail.
@@St.FighterZ He's living in the Winnipeg area and legally changed his name to Will Baker. Pretty sure an immigration attempt to the US would be denied. Canada may not think he's a risk, but we would!
great, a restaurant filled with knives!!!
I'm a Canadian, I've lived in multiple provinces in multiple cities since the greyhound beheading, and I can say that everyone who was in Canada when it happened remembers it like a weird dream, and I've never met anyone who thinks his release was anything less than theoretical bleeding hearted garbage. When a group of us go for drinks at some point after 5 or 6 pints someone will ALWAYS say something along the lines of "yo...remember the guy who got beheaded on the greyhound?" and everyone will cheers to how ridiculous it is that Vince Li is allowed to be enriched by sunlight. The release from custody is as much a talking point in Canadian culture as the beheading itself was, both absolutely rocked the country to its core
I met Vince Lee. I don't understand why the review board released him. He was regretful for what he did, but still... he took a life.
The doctors declaring his treatment as a total success are biased in that they want more funding. Vince Li living on public assistance while in a 24-7 stupor from elephant sized doses of anti-psychotics is not a success.
I predict he'll get tired of taking his meds again and have some minor incident in the future.
Meds don't also stop people this is not true that people can't murder on meds and that they are just so powerful to stop people and everything. He can still murder even on medicine but even if he does not after what he did he should never be released. How could they do that to this family and no justice for this man so sick!
💔💔💔💔 I feel so awful for Tim. I know what it's like to be a young person going home from work without a car. But to imagine that you get stabbed and killed on your way home is horrific. To imagine those are your last moments must be so daunting. I hope his loved ones and the ones on the bus can find some kind of healing.
An unspeakable crime and unimaginably poor judgement. Totally un-hinged in both cases.
Warning: he changed his name to Will Lee Baker and is living in Manitoba.
Not far from me. o.O
Dont worry, the docs cleared him 😉
@@St.FighterZ If it was the states somebody would have shot Lee dead
@@St.FighterZ They did a "ten years later" report on this and the head of the Canadian Schizophrenic Society (or something to that effect) said "The fact that he hasn't had anymore incidents with law enforcement is a good thing and shows that we were right" in letting him have zero consequences. Not an exact quote, but I'm sure you can find the program. I think it was dramatically called Bus 1170 or something. Obviously, this program gets state funding if they're successful, so you better bet they're praying everyday that he doesn't kill anyone else! The way he called an unprovoked mauling, murder, and cannibalism "an incident with law enforcement" stuck with me. Multiple passengers and the driver, and RCMPs had their lives ruined by PTSD or substance abuse because of this. Such a travesty.
False. Casey Anthony is still alive.
I agree that he should not have been released from the medical facility.
also that fast, 7 years was not enough
He should be in prison on d eath row not some cushy mental facility being cartered to after what he did to this man.
One of the most powerful mental health trainings I attended required us to wear a recorder with multiple voices whispering and shouting telling us to do things..we were than tasked with going to a Walmart and given a list of items to purchase, we were also told we needed to ask an employee for directions to get a certain item. It was an eye opening experience demonstrating what happens when voices are in your head all the time. Mental health is deterioriating and on the rise in the world and we really don’t know how to treat people long-term with these serious disorders.
"How to appear intelligent using random numbers" That was a good one, hopefully less medical professionals stop using that book.🤣🤣
😂
actually I hope that MORE medical professionals stop using that book.
we need to reduce the likelihood of professionals using tools from that book when communicating with the public about anything important.
As horrifying and tragic as this case is I also laughed at the title of that "book" and at the snappy dresser comment
Canadian here, I remember this horrible day. To Tim's family and friends, to any of you who were on the bus that day and witnessed this, to the friends and family of the police officer who took his life.. I am so sorry for all that you have gone through and how horribly our "justice" system has failed you.
💔💔💔
The fact he was released after 7 years is just embarrassing. How anyone could support this man being released to the public is beyond me.
Thank you Dr G! As a Canadian, I vividly remember this tragic, bizarre event. I was shocked when I learned a little while ago that he'd been released! Once you murder & decapitate someone on a Greyhound...
You've given up your right to live freely in society.
I feel horribly for Tim's family and friends as well as for every single person who was on that bus and the emergency personnel who attended the scene.
I live in Winnipeg and I'm waiting to hear about his next attack.
Thanks, Doc! Stay safe.
😡😡😡😡They better give him life, this time.
@@lavonnealexander6936 Let's hope so.
They'd probably cover it up. It would look bad for the Schizophrenic Society and they might lose state funding.
Probably raped and assaulted several people at his place in Winnipeg and the Schizophrenic society where other patients live. Fucking Psychos ( Both The Murderers and the Mental Health Pros).I never liked it since high school where I was bullied and I used to go this school counselor and she used to give me such garbage advice. Fuck This Mental Health Advisers And Doctors ( Not all are bad but Many are.)
I have Major Depression Disorder. I've had times where I'm taking my medication faithfully and my depression continues to deepen or stay roughly the same.
The medications are not a guarantee. You can get used to them, react poorly to them, the medication fails to work, and then you have to remove that medication slowly and try another and pray it assists.
It's irresponsible to think that once medicated, it's all over and it's smooth sailing from here. That's not the reality. You still have ups and downs.
I've never viewed my medication as a cure, so to speak. I view it as a form of assistance, a part of the plan to help ease the symptoms and make living with it more manageable. It's only one piece of the puzzle. Exercise (figure skating), playing piano and singing help me a great deal and is a part of my self care.
I have a great neuro-psychiatrist who is also a great listener. That helps too. He is there when I need him.
Living with mental health issues is a huge responsibility and you need a team and a proper plan in place.
What happens when Vince Li has another episode? Who may get hurt then? They made a huge mistake. No medication, no supervision. If he harms someone again it's on the hands of those who granted him this.
God is the only cure to your depression 😘
Oh, I'm impressed. The court and also the mental health professionals seem to be even more schizophrenic-friendly and broad-minded than I am. This is quite a challenge (for them). Or did they love the risk, as long as it's not hitting them? Gambling with the risk of psychosis.? I seldomly (practically never) argue positively towards a more strict regime, I don't believe in the effectivity of punishment to solve problems. But this time, I'm at the other side of the fence, and if it just serves the goal of reducing the risk for society. This case law was dangerously lax imo. Thanks, doctor, this was a surprising case for me.
This case is absolutely terrifying! The release of Li is unconscionable. It seems as if the community could have him readmitted based on their continued fear. Your assessment of this case is outstanding. Thank you Dr Grande. I hope I get to sleep tonight after hearing this.
I have been waiting for this one! It's so sad and horrible
The outcome of this case is just unbelievable!
So many baseless statements, like you said “being a decent man has nothing to do with psychosis.”
This case was certainly disturbing, yet you delivered a fascinating analysis. Urgh, we need more mental health professionals like you Dr. Grande - knowledgeable, logical and fair.
Thanks for the video, outstanding work!❤️
THANK YOU FOR THIS DR GRANDE! I WAS THE ONE THAT REQUESTED THIS!
I live in Canada and I remember vividly hearing about this incident on the news. I was only 13 at the time and was so terrified that I refused to use public transit for years afterwards. I can't believe this monster is walking the streets with a clean record.
True Crime topics are always my favorites! Thank you and have a great day Dr.Grande!
I am not a clinician but I have experience working with people who have schizophrenia and nearly all of patients that I've encountered are skeptical of taking medication, if they don't downright refuse to consider it. It seems extremely risky, in my opinion, to release someone who is psychotic and has murdered someone, especially without some way to ensure they take their medication.
@@bigballz4u If God is telling him to stop taking his medication, he'll stop. Why take the risk?
@@bigballz4u your right take comfort when some crazy off of their meds does it to you or your kids and remember your post....
I had a family member killed suddenly by a crazy, have you?????? Obviously not yet
Yes!! I just finished a documentary on this incident a few weeks ago. I am horrified by what happened, and I’m devastated for Tim’s family. The way his poor mother had to find out the details. She couldn’t even view her sons body. The police told her there wasn’t even enough of him left that was presentable for her to view. Not even a hand to hold. I’m sorry, but I still resent Canada for this one.
I also don’t understand why he didn’t get charged with first degree murder when there was clear evidence of premeditation.
you would think there are some crimes that rehabilitation alone doesn't suffice in addressing, even if it's successful.
If he was truly rehabilitated and found not responsible for the crime then are you suggesting keeping him in jail for punishment?
I really appreciate this! I am from Saskatchewan and vividly remember this entire case, even though I was only like 11 when it happened. Until now I always just thought that if the mental health pros said he was okay, that I should just take that and try not to pass so much judgement on his illness. But I realize now these experts may not have been basing their opinions in evidence at all. So my mind has definitely changed.
Oh wow I remember this case. It’s one of the most disturbing I’ve ever heard. Condolences to Tim and his family 😥
I’m from Winnipeg, I grew up with Tim, and my mom used to work at a Christian school where Vince was a janitor.
I am so sorry , this is truly devastating.
This story is rather infuriating, I have sympathy for mental illness, but there is something called justice.
You’re also a liar.
Dang.. this makes me so mad.
Thank you Dr.Grande. You've presented vital facts and information to help myself and others cope with difficult friendships much better.
Often people who are kind to others 95% of their lives can loose their tenacious grasp on consequences.
This was a great video. I appreciate your thorough explanation of the case and the concepts regarding schizophrenia. I have not had the greatest encounters with those who suffer from schizophrenia at my workplace, but I do empathize and hope one day there will be a "cure" or at least better interventions for these people. Thank you for bringing awareness to the topic.
There’s a huge chance his symptoms could trigger him to be afraid to or feel unable to take his medicine.
I live in Winnipeg, where “Vince Li” now resides. No one regulating his medication anymore. Feels incredibly safe, I must say.
Our country is a laughing stock for weak sentences. You can get away with murder in Canada.
Google Shane Rolston and see how much you get for beating a kid to death with a baseball bat. Disgusting!
@@kevinalbus721 A bit misleading. What you wrote. Christopher Griffiths who was 19 beat Shane Rolston who was 17 to death and pleaded guilty to MANSLAUGHTER. The way you made it sound was as if a 30 yeard old guy violently beat a 5 year old with a baseball bat in an unprovoked attack. I will agree that 4 years is light but life sentences arent the answer either
@@anonymousperson3023 how did I make it seem like a 30 year old did this? I said google the victim's name. They should have at least got 15 years. Four is a joke!
@@spiritmatter1553 operative word is manslaughter
Oh jesus. I hope nothing happens
Thank you Dr. Grande for the video!
Absolutely fascinating and unusual case. I had never heard of this. Thank you for making this a topic of a video.
My mother was close to Tim’s family and Tim was also a customer at the bank that my works at. She described him as a nice young man and would never hurt anyone.
Dr Grande, the WORLD needs more people like you!
Hi Dr. Grande! I’m super early so I wanted to first say I’m really excited to watch this video about this case, and to request a video analyzing the disappearance of Karlie Guse if possible. Thank you for all your hard work and for being so prolific! I watch your videos every day.
Thank you so much for covering this. I will never forget the day I heard about it on the radio. It still scares me to think of this man out on the streets and free. I live fairly close to Edmonton and this really hit hard for me when it happened. I was 19 and just had moved out on my own. I didn't sleep for weeks.
This......this is what I think about everytime one of my clients decides they don't need to take thier meds anymore because they "feel better". I also think of this anytime I'm forced to take public transportation in NYC, seems like severe mental illness is rampant in the city.
I had my hand over my mouth in horror during most of this episode. Wow. Thank you for the analysis.
I love your videos. Your approach is always illuminating. I'd love to see your take on the Gabriel Wortman case in Nova Scotia.
Yes! Thank you, Dr. Grande for this video. I’ve followed this case very closely. I Love the Canadian content. Great video as usual!!
I’d read about this case before, but I always assumed that when he was released it was under provisional conditions. I’m gobsmacked to learn that wasn’t the case; that any court could feel confident letting Li walk without at _least_ requiring him to continue his medications is shocking and appalling.
Canadian here. I remember this very well. So very sad.
Me too Cdn ..
Excellent episode!
Wow frightening. Great video!
So early, I got absolutely nothing clever to say ; ) Except you're doing great with all these uploads! Cheers Doc!
Omg how sad. Unbelievable the absolute discharge. We hear about this all the time. Someone does something heinous. They serve time. Freed. Do it again.
This case has always bothered me so thank you Dr. Grande for your thoughts, especially the mental heath aspect.
Thank you for covering this case! Ever since seeing a documentary on it years ago, I've been fascinated by it. Particularly by the decisions the court made in relation to Li. I find it extremely peculiar that they would release him unconditionally given the gruesome act he committed as well as his refusal to take medication for his condition prior to the incident.
I was living in Edmonton Alberta at the time of this incident and I have to say I am still enraged at the fact that this person is out and moving amongst general population. I understand the mental health angle but to just give him a free pass ??? What of he goes off the meds??? Dr Grande, please do a segment on the mental health of the Canada legal system, there has to be some mental deficiencies there worth a video.
This is one of the cases that haunts me. It's just so devastating in every aspect 😩
Schizophrenia is awful. It's a tragedy for everyone in this story.
Great video tho! 💜🎄💜
Your dry humor gets me everytime lol such a fan of your videos! 👏🏼😁
Can't wait to get my data back.
Dr. , thank you for doing this story. I've never heard it til today.
Where I live a man was released on parole after murdering a cab driver, in a very short time he kidnapped a young woman and raped and murdered her. I cannot grasp why those who paroled him are not held to answer for their bad decision. This is a horrible case, Dr. Grande.
dont be shy drop this fools name...
I work with a man who is schizophrenic. He's had a long history in and out of mental facilities, and no, he's never committed a crime. Right now, he's on the right medications, lives with a family member and is able to work part time. He has a good support network and takes downtime when he's feeling old symptoms and goes to see his Dr. He's a gentle giant at 6' 5" and has insight into his condition.
We've talked about it, he's not sure where he'll be say, 5 years from now. But he intends to enjoy every good day, his job and his 'normalcy.' Just being able to work and have a little money beyond the bare necessities is a lift to his self esteem. I hope his meds continue to work for him and he stays well for a long time.
Well good for him but as you see anybody can snap and killl someone one day this guy was much older 40 and he did not do it his whole life than one day brutally murdered someone and snapped. It seems he was going through stuff with his wife not handling it well and snapped take it on on someone else.
@@miac2382 The man I know is in his 50s, people with mental health issues are far more likely to be victims of predators than the predators. People without mental illness can "snap" also.
Looks to me like your trying to label all schizophrenics to be in your one case studies group... very dangerous to do so as there is a while spectrum and they are all very different people, I suspect you know that
@@2happypuppy2 Yes, I know that and I don't confuse him with others with this disorder. He is an example of one and the only one I feel qualified to discuss on a first hand knowledge basis.
Dr. Grande, thank you for this video. It must have been somewhat frustrating when you studied the approach of the mental health professionals. I had never heard of this case. I certainly have questions; but maybe another time. I am just too shocked and a little sick.
I had to do a double take, glad you are reviewing this case! So strange!!
This is the most heinous crime ever and it blows my mind that this person has been released and allowed to live in society...
Just a matter of time before he does it again. Shame on this system.
Futhermore, I think he knew what he was gonna do as he used a fake name to board the bus. He sure played the system.
Yes used a fake name and he tried to flee to not get caught or arrested. He used a fake name than tried to flee and run away so they wouldn't catch him or know who he was. I think he deff planned to murder someone had the knife and everything with him ready went all the way to the back of the bus, used a fake name then after he tried to get away on the bus then flee on foot. If he didn't think what he did was wrong or going to get arrested and plan it than wouldn't have used a fake name, take a knife and than try to flee and he probably thought afterwards if he gets away they won't know who he is. I think he was mad at his wife and everything and just decided to murder and like the shock value of the people.
@@miac2382 yep agree... Played the system very well...sad world
It's not I heard a worse one, I had trouble sleeping for days.
I agree with you
You gotta do Lou Bloom from the movie Nightcrawler.
Edit: Also maybe some tips to cope with lockdown round 2, unless that comes too close to medical advice.
Id like to see one on Lou bloom as well.
You are a good story teller, I love to watch the videos
As a resident of Winnipeg, and familiar with this case I agree 100% with you. It is said he has changed his name and lives freely I’m pleased to say it is not in the area of the city in which I live, but in no way should this man be free let alone in charge of monitoring himself. I feel for the victims family and for all those who were witness to this horrific act. I met a young man that was witness to this crime shortly after it had taken place awaiting on another bus to continue his travels home, it had not been made public yet, and listening to him explain what had happened I didn’t know how to take it thought perhaps he had been drinking for I was outside a concert, only to awaken the next day to all the news regarding this case. I truly can’t imagine the healing process involved for him and all others involved. The doctors in this case should be reviewed.
I'm Chilean and in my country, we had a similar case in 2004 with the murder of the priest Faustino Gazziero by Rodrigo Orias at the Cathedral of Santiago during mass. Orias stabbed him repeatedly in front of everyone yelling: "For Satan!" After being arrested, Orias, who was 25 years old at the time, said that a demon ordered him to kill the priest and he did so. Orias was wandering for days before the murder and confessed that this demon told him to kill his family first, but then, he took a coach and travelled to Santiago. That's how he ended up killing the priest. He was sentenced to go to a mental institution where he was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and after a few years he was released under the condition of seeing a psychiatrist and taking medication for life, otherwise, he goes back to be institutionalised. So far, Orias has been out of trouble and doing a normal life.
By the way, I'm not saying I support this position fully. I'm just narrating a similar case. As you said, Dr Grande, there aren't guarantees to a full recovery from this. Nobody can assure this is not going to happen again.
Wow. Gruesome case. Interesting and helpful info on schizophrenia. 👍🏼💖 Lots of Shocking things about this case...the minimal intervention by the police, the mental health assessements and most appalling, that Li is “out there” unsupervised.
Dr Grande thank you for this video
❤️ Dr Grande gives such a honest and knowledgeable opinion without coming across like a judgmental person . Why can not be more mental health professionals like him in the justice system?
Yay Dr. Grande!! I took a break from commenting on your videos for a little bit because I was getting harassed by random men because of it 🙃 But I’m so excited for this video! Loving the content!
And this is why I use an old nickname that people tend to read as a male name. You've no idea the difference it makes. Try it...don't use a photo of yourself, use a guy's name and feel the difference!. Bloody sad state of affairs tgat it's necessary but it does give one a break....
Why were you getting harassed?? And dont let that stop you from commenting. ☺
@@brandydoll Usually it’s not so bad, but this time hit a nerve because I’m going through a rough patch in my life right now. It started with some random guy hitting on me and then getting really mad when I wasn’t into it, which is stupid af. Then other guys started piling on because “all women are narcissistic” and I was apparently “an ego maniacal loser” for turning him down????? None of their statements sounded Dr. Grande approved lmao. This was all on Dr. Grande’s video analyzing why some women are attracted to killers like Chris Watts and Ted Bundy.
@Amanda Thank you. I’m trying but it is so incredibly frustrating and can honestly be hurtful even though I try to ignore it
@@thepheebsmachine oh..i just say thank you and keep it movin. 😌 Those dudes sound like jack asses. Does all this happen with your current pic up? Some girls have their boobs out and whatnot. The pic here looks very normal. Pretty of course, but not too crazy.
I was 13 when this happened and I remember it like it was yesterday. I was away on a trip to fernie with my friend and her parents and when I got home to Calgary, my mom hugged me extra hard. I think all Canadian parents were hugging their children extra hard around that time. RIP Tim😞❤️
This video must have been very difficult to make. Thank you, Dr Grande, for sharing your thoughts on this topic.
Good stuff. Informative.
Dr Grande that was extremely interesting analysis.I agree that the mental health providers shouldn't have let this man out. What he did was macabre and heinous.Thank you Dr Grande.
I feel so bad for this young man's family. That's awful
Very insightful. I used to work in mental health with the elderly and schizophrenia patients are often as you describe - quite paranoid, socially withdrawn and treatment resistant to meds or even ECT sometimes.
The amount of hours clocked up watching serial killers because of dr grande is now consuming a lot of my CZcams time. Thanks I guess dr grande
Thank you Dr Grande for giving your input in this case. I was so angry when I found out they released him. It’s insanity to think that he’s perfectly fine now and just let him out to live his life as though nothing happened. The “doctor” that recommended his release needs to have his head checked. I live in a different province, but the thought he can just get around so easily, is unnerving for sure. I feel so bad for his Tim’s family, they never got justice.
A video suggestion, Dr Grande: Sam Vaknin. I'm sorry if you have done this person before, but I couldn't find him in your past videos.
Thanks for sharing your information on schizophrenia. I was very saddened to listen to the details regarding the horrible death of Tim and I feel so sad for his family. We have a family member that has been struggling with schizophrenia and has dealt with many demons . Just recently our family had to
call the authorities to place him into a facility because he wasn’t taking his meds and he was having erractic thoughts. At this point it’s hard to see a family member suffering but we had to put his safety and others in the forefront. After listening to the story of Vince Li and his demons it sounded very familiar to our family members situation. (Hearing voices and saying that he is GOD) I know that we did the right thing by getting him the help he needs and I know that he will be dealing with this debilitating disease until he passes away one day
Great video thank you 👍