@@MountainFisher Yeah I agree like Fingolfin's death in 1v1 combat against Morgoth is extremely heroic but Dain's death is still pretty heroic and definitely one of the most heroic deaths in the third age. But yeah you're right the first age has a lot heroic deaths.
@@nicholassieloff8701 No disagreement with you, but just look at Glorfindel's battle with the Balrog, but there are just so many it is hard to count. Like in real life an American Company of volunteers went into the Fall Of Phnom Pen to rescue missionaries and their families because it was the right thing to do despite orders not to. Proudest moment of their lives.
He did find out while still in Minas Tirith after the Coronation of King Elessar. It is in the Appendix at back of ROK under Durin's Folk, page 397. It is also in Forgotten Tales under Quest For Erebor. Gandalf said to all the hobbits and Gimli that, "and now we hear that Dain has fallen fighting in Dale again, even while we fought here. I should call that a heavy loss, if it was not a wonder rather that in his great age he could still wield his axe as mightily as they say that he did standing over the body of King Brand before the Gate of Erebor until the darkness fell." Or something along those lines. LOL
@@CrookedRosePOD Legolas' father Thranduil was also assailed and Legolas thought and answered Gimli after Gimli said, "Why didn't we think to ask the Lady for some of our own people?" like Aragorn did with the mere 30 Dunedain that showed up. Legolas looked to the North and Northeast towards their homes and told his friend, I do not think any would come. War already marches on them." Or something like that.
Although it's likely not going to happen, I personally would love to see a film solely on this topic. A movie with the beginning showing Dwarves of Erebor flourishing with men of Dale, the arrival of the messenger from Sauron, and then progressing to the preparation and the actual battle. It would be awesome seeing King Dain going crazy after the death of Brand, slaying so many foes until his last breath...followed by their sons stepping up and leading them to victory. If only...
kinda agree, the victory was pretty marginal at best. I think the movies really show that well. The fact a loss here, a loss there, more courage here, less there and you have a really dark outcome.
Now that we have confirmation of willingness from Newline to make animated LOTR-related content, do any of you think we might be able to eventually see this movie in animated format? Lesser- known events such as this are just begging to be made into a movie and I would happily watch every second!
the dwarves have always been my favorite, ive always felt that they were very misrepresented in any movie they showed up in. completely single minded and not needed for anything other than fodder
Really hoping for a game of some kind about the dwarfs and reclaiming their homelands. Personally I love the idea of trying to reclaim and most importantly rebuilding some of the lost holds. Really good video!
Thanks for bringing back Sauron in the intro. It always hypes. Wish you all the best for this channel btw. I'm a long fan and love(d) your (old) videos. Keep it going, best Middle Earth Channel on entire CZcams. Love you guys!
Great video. Dwarves are one of my favourite of Tolkiens character creations. I recon that following this story arch would make for some amazing films to watch !
If this is the Battle of Dale, where's Chip? Very good video. The outcome of war is often based on alliances. There may not have been 14,000,605 different possible outcomes for the War of the Ring, but all it takes is the right alignment of alliances to win. Dwarves, Elves, Orcs, Goblins, Uruk-hai, Trolls and Hobbits. They all captured my attention when I first read The Hobbit.
Dain would've never accepted the offer and even pointed out that the dark Lord never honored his bargains hence why the king under the mountain "needed time to think upon it". The dwarves of the iron hills and blue mountains were honorable and proud people who would not be made to bend to the will of others. Especially the will of their greatest adversary who was the source of all their sorrow in the second and third ages of middle earth.
The fact that the messenger promised that the Dwarves would be granted Khazud Dhum is proof that the Dark Lord never honors his bargains. Although Sauron could have cleared Moria of Orcs and Trolls, there is no guarantee at all that he could have done so with the Balrog since it was a Mair servant (like Sauron) of Sauron's old master Morgoth, and not beholden to obey Sauron.
I remember reading Gandalf saying that if the White Council had not or did not attack Dol Guldur the quest for Erebor would have been stopped in its tracks because the power in that place would not have let an assault on Erebor happen unless it had something else to deal with. What Gandalf did not know was that Saruman knew that spies from Dol Guldur had started to search the Anduin River next to the Gladden Fields. So Saruman "suddenly" decided that an assault on Dol Guldur was needed.
I know you have listed it as "Artist Unknown", I think that artwork is concept art from The Battle of the Five Armies. Might want to attribute it to Weta?
I would guess that Sauron, having added any number of troops to the Battle of Gondor would still be inconsequential and doomed to defeat at the hands of the Army of the Dead.
Dain selling out to Sauron would've completely screwed the fellowship because Gimli wouldn't be in it. That aside, interestingly, Sauron maybe would've withdrawn Durin's bane from Moria, making the traversing much safer and keeping Gandalf with the fellowship. That means that the splitting of the fellowship near the arngorath wouldn't have happened, Boromir might have survived, the fellowship might have travelled to the black gates or to Gondor/Rohan as a whole. This would make any destruction of the ring impossible as Frodo and Sam needed to leave at the aengorath to sneak into mordor. In addition, because no hobbit will be taken to isengard, the ents won't be roused, and Pippin may never even touch Orthanc's palantir. Altogether it would've led to a much bloodier war because many risks that paid off weren't taken here. Maybe Gondor could prevail with the usage of the ring and dominate Sauron, but in the end it would still be the ring who ruled.
I cannot envision any scenario or situation in which Dain and the dwarves or Erebor form an alliance with Sauron. During Gloin's tale of the messenger from Mordor at The Council of Elrond, he states that the dwarves knew Sauron had "betrayed them of old," implying that they never considered an alliance with the Dark Lord.
I would keep the green copyright bar permanently on the screen because constant new pictures distracts when the copyright keeps flashing. Keep up the good work, keep reforging the sword.
The battlefield there is actually where the crops are grown. She just have to do a cornmeal blend of topsoil, bonemeal and bloodmeal. Adding sixteen feet deep cubit space there and you will have a usable crop rotation second year. As well as, a healthy seed bank. Saving a thousand seeds of quality. From each harvest, and plant sixteen hundred seeds for each staple crop type, used for each person. Based on food recipes, on local preference. Running on recipe rotation with crop rotation. Maximum Boon/Yeild with minimal supervision and guidance.
I think if Dain had allied with Sauron it would have led to Sauron winning the one ring very early on. The information the dwarves could give Sauron would have led him to the Shire in short order, and the Nazgul would probably have taken Frodo and the ring without much hassle.
The battle of Dale i always picture for 3 days of Heavy fighting a a long seige has to be atleast 5 to 8 thousand Dwarves probably being split 50 50 between Erebor and The Iron Hills at this time still and 3 to 4 thousand Troops From the Men of Dale so all and all 8 to 12 Thousand for the Armies of the Free Peoples and id say no less than 20 Thousand Easterlings Marched on the Lonley Mountain up to 40 Thousand Note If the Dwarves sent messengers to The Blue and Red Mountains I'd say the Armies of the Dwarves would alone Number 20 Thousand and if Lake Town was rebuilt the Armies of the Men of Dale and Escaroth would number Around 8 to 10 Thousand meaning all the Battles fought in the War of the North would pretty much be Hopeless for Sauron due to not being able to get enough forces that way fast enough to do anything about 20,000 Dwarves 10,000 Elves and 10,000 Men waiting for then other then throw wave after wave of orcs to wear them down over time
I always, always enjoyed the beauty of the Elvin natural beauty but I always liked the 'toughness' fo the Dwarves. I do however, think the fact you point out the loss of dwarven living men is important to what occurs AFTER the WotR. Its kind of sad really, b/c its basically an extinction of an entire race. Especially when you factor in the amazing things they accomplished w/in Moira and Erebor
Well, if Dain sided with Sauron, first of all it is likely that Suron would betray him at some point. Not giving him power at all, but either enslaving him sooner or later, or dtraight up trying to destroy his dwarven realm as soon as possible. But for the war, both scenarios have similar outcomes, as they both give Surn full control over the north if middle earth. With an additional easterling army attacking first Mirkwood, than Lorien, after that maybe Rivendell etc., the north would fall. Additionally the lonely mountain itself would give Sauron control over an invincible fortress that was perfectly designed for orcs. So to sum it up, it would have been devastating. And I think Dain is one of the most important unsung heroes of the war of the ring.
@@TheBrokenSword Oh hahahaha my bad cause I didn’t notice ;) Well glad you guys are back and better than ever! Please do more geographical videos like the Umbar one!
In your description of the battle you said that the dwarfes and men of Dale faced Easterlings, but do you think that also there where orcs among the attackers? I would think so because of the nearby Gundabad and Grey Mountains
Nothing against Helm Hammerhand but I would have preferred the new movie to be about the War in the North. Beyond that, I don't think Dain would have ever allied with Sauron unless it was done as an attempt at subterfuge.
If Tolkien's family tree of Durin's folk is complete, if Thorin III died with no sons, then Dwalin would actually have been next in line, being the closest relative still living at the time. If he had died with no sons, then it would have fallen to Glóin, and Gimli, of course would be right after him. So, provided that Thorin III had no sons during the War of the Ring, Gimli could have been only four deaths away from being King under the Mountain!
he did do something.While the battle of dale ocurred, he and the elves of lothlorien and mirkwood attacked dol guldur, killing and wiping out Saurons forces there including giant spiders, trolls, orcs, and then destroyed Dol Guldur, removing the darkness from Mirkwood and forcing orcs and other foul things back to their mountains and caves far away from people.He couldn't drop everything to march to Dale, he was busy fighting the war inside Mirkwood.
But Amazon spent a bil on trash fanfic 😬🤮 how much amazing LOTR media could've been made with that instead of thrown away to callousness and incompetencey
Dumb question. Dain would never ally himself with evil. There is no 'but' or 'what if', he wouldn't. And to even "hypothesize" is absurd and laughable.
Dain probably has one of the most heroic deaths in all of Tolkien's works.
No, I don't think so. The Silmarillion has some pretty heroic deaths as well.
@@MountainFisher Yeah I agree like Fingolfin's death in 1v1 combat against Morgoth is extremely heroic but Dain's death is still pretty heroic and definitely one of the most heroic deaths in the third age. But yeah you're right the first age has a lot heroic deaths.
@@nicholassieloff8701 No disagreement with you, but just look at Glorfindel's battle with the Balrog, but there are just so many it is hard to count.
Like in real life an American Company of volunteers went into the Fall Of Phnom Pen to rescue missionaries and their families because it was the right thing to do despite orders not to. Proudest moment of their lives.
@@MountainFisher Man I think it's time for me to re-read the Silmarillon. I forgot about that Glorfindel battle with the balrog!
I agree, but honestly there’s soooo many characters who had heroic deaths lol
I don't even dare to imagine the shock Gimli went through after the War of the Ring, finding out about the devastation of his home and his people
He did find out while still in Minas Tirith after the Coronation of King Elessar. It is in the Appendix at back of ROK under Durin's Folk, page 397. It is also in Forgotten Tales under Quest For Erebor. Gandalf said to all the hobbits and Gimli that, "and now we hear that Dain has fallen fighting in Dale again, even while we fought here. I should call that a heavy loss, if it was not a wonder rather that in his great age he could still wield his axe as mightily as they say that he did standing over the body of King Brand before the Gate of Erebor until the darkness fell."
Or something along those lines. LOL
I dont think the enemy ever gained entrance to the Kingdom Under The Mountain
@@kawekalee9737 only me
@@MountainFisher is that why Legalos says to.gimli in the movie "I fear war is upon your kinsman in their own lands" something like that
@@CrookedRosePOD Legolas' father Thranduil was also assailed and Legolas thought and answered Gimli after Gimli said, "Why didn't we think to ask the Lady for some of our own people?" like Aragorn did with the mere 30 Dunedain that showed up.
Legolas looked to the North and Northeast towards their homes and told his friend, I do not think any would come. War already marches on them." Or something like that.
Although it's likely not going to happen, I personally would love to see a film solely on this topic.
A movie with the beginning showing Dwarves of Erebor flourishing with men of Dale, the arrival of the messenger from Sauron, and then progressing to the preparation and the actual battle. It would be awesome seeing King Dain going crazy after the death of Brand, slaying so many foes until his last breath...followed by their sons stepping up and leading them to victory.
If only...
I think that the free people would've lost the War of the Ring, if Dain had forge an alliance with Sauron. Same goes on Lórien and Mirkwood.
kinda agree, the victory was pretty marginal at best. I think the movies really show that well. The fact a loss here, a loss there, more courage here, less there and you have a really dark outcome.
I was drawn to the Dwarves as a Lad of 9 years reading a certain story concerning a Burglar.
Now that we have confirmation of willingness from Newline to make animated LOTR-related content, do any of you think we might be able to eventually see this movie in animated format? Lesser- known events such as this are just begging to be made into a movie and I would happily watch every second!
the dwarves have always been my favorite, ive always felt that they were very misrepresented in any movie they showed up in. completely single minded and not needed for anything other than fodder
I agree!
The creation of the Dwarves is one of my favorite topics of lore and my favourite chapter in the Silmarillion.
Really hoping for a game of some kind about the dwarfs and reclaiming their homelands. Personally I love the idea of trying to reclaim and most importantly rebuilding some of the lost holds. Really good video!
Thanks for bringing back Sauron in the intro. It always hypes.
Wish you all the best for this channel btw. I'm a long fan and love(d) your (old) videos. Keep it going, best Middle Earth Channel on entire CZcams. Love you guys!
Great video. Dwarves are one of my favourite of Tolkiens character creations. I recon that following this story arch would make for some amazing films to watch !
Couldn't agree more!
If this is the Battle of Dale, where's Chip?
Very good video.
The outcome of war is often based on alliances.
There may not have been 14,000,605 different possible outcomes for the War of the Ring, but all it takes is the right alignment of alliances to win.
Dwarves, Elves, Orcs, Goblins, Uruk-hai, Trolls and Hobbits. They all captured my attention when I first read The Hobbit.
Excellent work The Broken Sword. You guys keep on doing outstanding work.
Thank you! 😊
Short, interessting and on point. Well done!
Glad you liked it 😊
Yes I agree 👍
6:40
I can notice the increase in quality! You guys are doing great!
Dain would've never accepted the offer and even pointed out that the dark Lord never honored his bargains hence why the king under the mountain "needed time to think upon it". The dwarves of the iron hills and blue mountains were honorable and proud people who would not be made to bend to the will of others. Especially the will of their greatest adversary who was the source of all their sorrow in the second and third ages of middle earth.
The fact that the messenger promised that the Dwarves would be granted Khazud Dhum is proof that the Dark Lord never honors his bargains. Although Sauron could have cleared Moria of Orcs and Trolls, there is no guarantee at all that he could have done so with the Balrog since it was a Mair servant (like Sauron) of Sauron's old master Morgoth, and not beholden to obey Sauron.
If Dain joined Sauron? Dwarven equipment and endless buttloads of gold for the Enemy. Money can do alot of damage
I remember reading Gandalf saying that if the White Council had not or did not attack Dol Guldur the quest for Erebor would have been stopped in its tracks because the power in that place would not have let an assault on Erebor happen unless it had something else to deal with. What Gandalf did not know was that Saruman knew that spies from Dol Guldur had started to search the Anduin River next to the Gladden Fields. So Saruman "suddenly" decided that an assault on Dol Guldur was needed.
I love all the battles that the dwarves are in too! Great to hear that mate! Great one
I know you have listed it as "Artist Unknown", I think that artwork is concept art from The Battle of the Five Armies. Might want to attribute it to Weta?
I would guess that Sauron, having added any number of troops to the Battle of Gondor would still be inconsequential and doomed to defeat at the hands of the Army of the Dead.
I think Dwarves are my favorite race as well
Dáin, is of course how the modern tradition of not answering text messages (and e-mails) we don't like comes from.
The Quality of the video and the information is wonderful but I know you guys would and could do no less! Thank you!
Dain selling out to Sauron would've completely screwed the fellowship because Gimli wouldn't be in it. That aside, interestingly, Sauron maybe would've withdrawn Durin's bane from Moria, making the traversing much safer and keeping Gandalf with the fellowship. That means that the splitting of the fellowship near the arngorath wouldn't have happened, Boromir might have survived, the fellowship might have travelled to the black gates or to Gondor/Rohan as a whole. This would make any destruction of the ring impossible as Frodo and Sam needed to leave at the aengorath to sneak into mordor.
In addition, because no hobbit will be taken to isengard, the ents won't be roused, and Pippin may never even touch Orthanc's palantir.
Altogether it would've led to a much bloodier war because many risks that paid off weren't taken here. Maybe Gondor could prevail with the usage of the ring and dominate Sauron, but in the end it would still be the ring who ruled.
Great video! I’d also love to see you guys talk about the history of Khazad-dum. It’s such an incredible story
Coming in the next week or 2!.😊
@@TheBrokenSword can’t wait!
dwarves have the best fortresses and weapons
id love to hear more about the different dwarven kingdoms, who ruled them and what the cultural differences were
I cannot envision any scenario or situation in which Dain and the dwarves or Erebor form an alliance with Sauron. During Gloin's tale of the messenger from Mordor at The Council of Elrond, he states that the dwarves knew Sauron had "betrayed them of old," implying that they never considered an alliance with the Dark Lord.
The picture at 2:10 is an army of Mahakam Volunteers (a card in the TCG Gwent) by artist Bartlomiej Gawel.
Love y’alls videos. Sooo happy that y’all are back!!! Would love to see a video on gondalen or the history of men leading up to the lord of the rings
Thanks 😊
The inhale in the beginning was crisp
😅😅
Great video dude!
good work as always
Thanks :)
Would love to see this in either a show or a film what a story
Sauron is smart af when figuring multiple fronts.
I would keep the green copyright bar permanently on the screen because constant new pictures distracts when the copyright keeps flashing. Keep up the good work, keep reforging the sword.
Fantastic work, guys! Really enjoyed this one
Thanks a ton! :)
The battlefield there is actually where the crops are grown. She just have to do a cornmeal blend of topsoil, bonemeal and bloodmeal. Adding sixteen feet deep cubit space there and you will have a usable crop rotation second year. As well as, a healthy seed bank. Saving a thousand seeds of quality. From each harvest, and plant sixteen hundred seeds for each staple crop type, used for each person. Based on food recipes, on local preference. Running on recipe rotation with crop rotation. Maximum Boon/Yeild with minimal supervision and guidance.
awesome video guys, top quality as always
Easterlings are menace, they defeated combined strength of dwarves and men of dale, then forced them back into the mountain😅
I think if Dain had allied with Sauron it would have led to Sauron winning the one ring very early on. The information the dwarves could give Sauron would have led him to the Shire in short order, and the Nazgul would probably have taken Frodo and the ring without much hassle.
I adore your videos, thank you for posting and I look forward to more!
I love Dwarves their story is exactly like Assyrians and their tempermant is just like my people lol
Did the second best nazgul that was an easterling take part in this battle
Darn been waiting for this ;3
What's the reaction of Gimli after finding out what happened to erebor and dale? Considering King Dain fell together with King brand.
This a awesome video one again guys!
Glad you enjoyed it!
The battle of Dale i always picture for 3 days of Heavy fighting a a long seige has to be atleast 5 to 8 thousand Dwarves probably being split 50 50 between Erebor and The Iron Hills at this time still and 3 to 4 thousand Troops From the Men of Dale so all and all 8 to 12 Thousand for the Armies of the Free Peoples and id say no less than 20 Thousand Easterlings Marched on the Lonley Mountain up to 40 Thousand
Note
If the Dwarves sent messengers to The Blue and Red Mountains I'd say the Armies of the Dwarves would alone Number 20 Thousand and if Lake Town was rebuilt the Armies of the Men of Dale and Escaroth would number Around 8 to 10 Thousand meaning all the Battles fought in the War of the North would pretty much be Hopeless for Sauron due to not being able to get enough forces that way fast enough to do anything about 20,000 Dwarves 10,000 Elves and 10,000 Men waiting for then other then throw wave after wave of orcs to wear them down over time
love the artwork
I always, always enjoyed the beauty of the Elvin natural beauty but I always liked the 'toughness' fo the Dwarves. I do however, think the fact you point out the loss of dwarven living men is important to what occurs AFTER the WotR. Its kind of sad really, b/c its basically an extinction of an entire race. Especially when you factor in the amazing things they accomplished w/in Moira and Erebor
awesome video Jake enjoyed it
Glad you enjoyed it :)
Well, if Dain sided with Sauron, first of all it is likely that Suron would betray him at some point. Not giving him power at all, but either enslaving him sooner or later, or dtraight up trying to destroy his dwarven realm as soon as possible. But for the war, both scenarios have similar outcomes, as they both give Surn full control over the north if middle earth. With an additional easterling army attacking first Mirkwood, than Lorien, after that maybe Rivendell etc., the north would fall. Additionally the lonely mountain itself would give Sauron control over an invincible fortress that was perfectly designed for orcs. So to sum it up, it would have been devastating. And I think Dain is one of the most important unsung heroes of the war of the ring.
I mean if they could put this battle in a movie, that would be great
Azog sent me here
Really diggin this topic
Why didn't the dwarves stay in the mountain fortress if out numbered?
are these events described in any of the books?
I feel like this will be the next animated movie after war of the rohirrim
Do we know who took the throne after Dain?
His son Thorin III
Yeah. It said in the video ;)
Redo your understanding the Nazgul it was one of your best
Why ever would Daine unite with Sauron against men and Dwarfs?
Build me a army worthy of mordor is back!!
Its been back for a few vids! haha
@@TheBrokenSword Oh hahahaha my bad cause I didn’t notice ;)
Well glad you guys are back and better than ever! Please do more geographical videos like the Umbar one!
In your description of the battle you said that the dwarfes and men of Dale faced Easterlings, but do you think that also there where orcs among the attackers? I would think so because of the nearby Gundabad and Grey Mountains
yes , Dol Gudur orcs and Gundabad Orcs were there too
More what if
Nothing against Helm Hammerhand but I would have preferred the new movie to be about the War in the North.
Beyond that, I don't think Dain would have ever allied with Sauron unless it was done as an attempt at subterfuge.
Dwarves RULE!!!
i wonder where gimili was in the line of succession for the dwarven crown as he is a descendant durin
If Tolkien's family tree of Durin's folk is complete, if Thorin III died with no sons, then Dwalin would actually have been next in line, being the closest relative still living at the time. If he had died with no sons, then it would have fallen to Glóin, and Gimli, of course would be right after him. So, provided that Thorin III had no sons during the War of the Ring, Gimli could have been only four deaths away from being King under the Mountain!
I'm wondering what happened to your new intro about the sword being reforged as I've only heard the old one lately about the army of Mordor?
We had hundreds of requests to bring it back haha
@@TheBrokenSword can you not use both alternatively
Video 9
Dain was a Chad
Where's this movie!
If you think about it the battle of dale, had a larger force then in the battle of the gondor.
I like dwarfs, but I dont like the part when they have killed king Thinkol.
Good morning
Morning :)
@@TheBrokenSword hey, i have a question, What happed to GROND after the battle of Pelenor field and where it was builded?
More proof Gandalf was right about Erebor, Dale and Smaug.
Yet the elves of mirkwood did nothing? I thought Thraunduil was good.
he did do something.While the battle of dale ocurred, he and the elves of lothlorien and mirkwood attacked dol guldur, killing and wiping out Saurons forces there including giant spiders, trolls, orcs, and then destroyed Dol Guldur, removing the darkness from Mirkwood and forcing orcs and other foul things back to their mountains and caves far away from people.He couldn't drop everything to march to Dale, he was busy fighting the war inside Mirkwood.
Algorithm bump
20,000 is not a big nummer
Depends
But Amazon spent a bil on trash fanfic 😬🤮 how much amazing LOTR media could've been made with that instead of thrown away to callousness and incompetencey
Dumb question. Dain would never ally himself with evil. There is no 'but' or 'what if', he wouldn't. And to even "hypothesize" is absurd and laughable.