The Sopranos: Was Melfi A Good Therapist? (ft. Real Therapists)
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- čas přidán 2. 03. 2022
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Honestly I’m more disappointed in Melfi‘s therapist than her, he really missed some marks with her that could have helped her with Tony. Instead he treated their therapy as a party conversation, which is super unethical.
Also Tony is a horrible patient. Some people are beyond help.
Yes! That therapist Elliot was the worst. He was terrible to her. She was great
Why was Elliott so bad as her therapist? I definitely hated that dinner party conversation moment and found it unethical, but otherwise...?
@@lacym9278 essentially he convinced his patient not to treat another patient. He didn’t do that just by the study, he embarrassed her to do this. It wasn’t for her treatment, or Tony. it was him interfering for his own curiosity
Regardless of the study, her job is to help people.
@@bgdojo damn do you know which episode in particular that takes place in? really thoughtful conclusion by the way
I'm a therapist, and people forget what a big deal this show was for the community. They would have articles in magazines and case conferences discussing what she did right or wrong each week
Wow, thats actually really cool, so many newer shows i've seen the therapy scenes feel disingenous and just put there just to be there, in sopranos it felt very organic, and like he actually needed the sessions
@@chasejordan9295 haha yep. And he did need the sessions. The man was passing out randomly before he started therapy.
What was the prevailing thought on her effectiveness as a therapist?
Psychotherapy is a bunch of hokum. Going to a priest, rabbi, minister, or talking to a sympathetic friend that possesses a modicum of pragmatism and a moral compass is likely as productive. I´m not, however, denying that it requires a ot of investment in time, and education and is a prestigious and lucrative profession. After all the best illusionists are well educated in their craft while being very disciplined and highly practiced technicians.
@@jaelge interesting that the sopranos actually does pay some attention to whether therapy is even useful
Melfi stopping herself from telling Tony about the rape is one of the best moments in the series
To me that moment it frustrates me as the guy could've been dealt with, I suppose that says more about me as a viewer
It makes the show more realistic no matter how wrong someone did you or how much you think someone deserves to die most people with never actually go through with ending a life
It’s infuriating! First time watching through you’re just praying that she tells him.
@@MakeMeCare89 you type like an outraged facebook mom. If anything she was enabling him through a lot of it.
@@bigboss3206 Big Boss, that's the wrong person you replied to. 🫡
Melfis restraint in not using Tony to eliminate her attacker was one of the smartest moves a character makes in the show, and one of the most difficult. The shows an interesting analysis of corruption and temptation at one level
I just don’t understand why it showed Melfi getting raped when nothing came from it?
She still got satisfaction from the knowledge that she could have if she wanted to.
Nah fuck that I wanted to see that guy die
I agree, because I’m not sure if I’d be able to stop myself from doing it in that situation honestly, but as most things in The Sopranos are not black and white, the question is to what extent was this a moral right v. wrong judgment, or a practical and rational decision in a sense that she was smart enough to know she shouldn’t owe anything to the Mafia.
It definitely makes her the strongest character in the show too. Any lesser person would've given in immediately
Melfi was the Greek Chorus, a stand-in for us, the audience. She spent an hour week with Tony, just like we did, observing from the outside, commenting, sometimes making tentative moral judgments. She is alternately fascinated and disgusted by him. I remember when the show originally aired and the tone, and Tony’s actions, got darker and darker and he became less and less likable until that penultimate episode when she finally washed her hands of him and I thought yup, me too.
Which was probably the effect Chase was trying for.
this is the best take ive read
Yes I think you've hit the nail on the head with that comment 👏
Good insight I had not thought of that
Which episode are you referring to?
@@buttonman6262 Season 6 Ep 20 is when melfi drops tony
I'm not a psychiatrist, but I am a health care professional. One thing I appreciate about Melfi is her use of what's called 'therapeutic communication,' where she uses open ended questions, repeating Tony's statements and sometimes silence to get him to explore his own thoughts. She refrains from offering advice, passing judgment or making 'everything's going to be okay' generalizations, none of which are helpful. The writers definitely did their research on this.
Great comment and thanks. I'm not a media critic but being 50 and holding a lifelong love of all Screens I've yet to find a more astute one than this Kino young man, best wishes fellas ✌️🙏
Absolutely. The first thing we were taught in Counselling behavioural training was how to show an astute level of active listening.
Sorry, but you are 100% wrong. A good therapist challenges the patient, breaks down misconceptions and beliefs which are not identifiable or provable. In Tony's case he needed to see a very specific type of counselor, one who specializes in cognitive-behavioral therapy as that was what Tony needed, not some pseudo-Freudian psychologist. Tony needed to change his behaviors, his perceptions, and his overall identity of self which is done through CBT, not Freudian, early developmental examination. That comes AFTER the current behavioral issues have been addressed, not before. Bottom line, there is no such thing as a well adjusted mobster and no counselor could help one unless that mobster wants out of the life entirely. The two are mutually exclusive, not congruent in any fashion.
@@tedwojtasik8781 Wow really, what on earth have I been shelling out for then for the last 15 years?? 🙏
@@tedwojtasik8781 was watching a documentary where a much older women describe her challenging her mothers role and beliefs about her dead father who as a staunch SS she brings home a book this is 1960s Germany when she learns from a book who her father really was it basically nullified anything her mother said about her dead father. When confronted with the questions her daughter asked and evidence of his crimes her - asked her mothers role and lack of action in the Holocaust by asking her mother these open ended questions- her mother reacted like the sky was falling she psychologically could not process her daughters words running around the house saying she couldn’t talk about this and refused to look at the book or listen to her daughter saying look look at this ! Look at these photos ! She starts following her around the house reading the testimony of a jewish witness in the book describing how cruel and sadistic he was -her mother could not confront these questions her daughter was asking throwing justifications at her and trying to say it was overly exaggerated and her father was wrongfully punished and then the final coffin in their relationship her daughter said in the documentary-you see they were dangerous to Germany it had to be done. Its sad but true nobody wanted it do it. But it had to be done . and the interviewer said thats when in her mind their relationship died. She said on her mothers hospice bed dying one day 20 years later she said out the blue to her “its good they talked about what happened to the jews”. Thats it. nothing else .
Good video. I once discussed The Sopranos with my own therapist, and she told me that when it was on the air, she and a lot of her colleagues would have parties watching the show and picking apart the therapy scenes. Her assessment of Melfi was that overall, she was a very good therapist to Tony and helped him make some major breakthroughs to cope with his mother's borderline personality disorder... but she also had a problem of crossing boundaries, to the point of being complicit in his criminal acts (giving him consultation on how to be a better mob boss, etc.). The show does a masterful job of slowly building this dilemma. The "human side" of Melfi's relationship with Tony is that on some level, she simply enjoys being around him; he's funny, what he reveals about his life is fascinating to her, and she can relate to his Italian-American sensibility in a tribal way. This is what allows her to hold strong and do great work, even as Tony rages at her for pointing out his mother's faults. But it's also what leads her to enable his behavior, when he actively refuses to engage with her questions about what he really wants out of life. It's extremely frustrating to watch her dump him as a client after all their years together, but in this context it's a perfect resolution to her arc.
Damn… that’s a fabulous summary. Kudos to you for going to therapy, and kudos to your therapist for dissecting the relationship so well.
Thanks! :)
Not sure your therapist was giving you the best use of her time there
@@GuinessOriginal sometimes it helps people to just talk about random subjects with therapists instead of only speaking about there problems and it can even make people open up more
@@benlawson5939 yeah. It also helps them get paid. I’m a cynic, forgive me
@@GuinessOriginal yeah I can be pretty cynical aswel even thought I often get annoyed at people for being cynical which makes me a hypocrite but hey were all hypocrites and selfish cunts so
I always thought that the reason Melfi doesn't tell Tony about the rape is because she doesn't want to sink to his level, not because she fears being indebted to him
Yeah, this is borne out in her discussion about justice vs. revenge with (iirc) Elliot.
I think being indebt to Tony would have definitely play an intricate part that Melfi would have dreaded the most in the future, if she were to ask Tony a favor. Nothing's free in life and with Tony, he always collects what's he owed at the end and Melfi couldn't bear with herself knowing what she did to get herself in the situation and the risk of losing her job and respect from her family. But I'm glad she never told him, it would have been way out of character for her to do so.
I think you overlooked the fact that because Tony is a CRIMINAL and can't talk about his actual crimes which obviously have a HUGE impact on his life, then the therapy is operating on more of a superficial surface level. That is ultimately not effective in actually improving his life and choices. Melfi did complain about this to him, but she knew what the situation was from the start.
I actually thought about this the other day so many of Tony’s life that is actually the reason he needs therapy doesn’t get talked about by tony because he simply can’t ormeta & all
this comment needs to be at the top
@@ho2618 "superficial surface level" this comment should be at the bottom
@@AB-gb6zz So a minor piece of redundancy completely invalidates their point? Sounds fair
As a child of a borderline mother, his decrease in panic attacks is probably linked to Livies death. It's a relief for him to know she can't mess with him anymore.
Melfi was super incorrect with that DX. She even goes back on it sometime later in the show where she describes Livia as a narcissist. I'd agree that Livia is absolutely a narcissist and doesn't have BPD. I have BPD and I do not do anything that Livia does. My relationships with others are mostly stable, especially if we're already friends. I know BPD affects people differently but I've known a LOT of people with BPD and still have yet to find one who acts like her. On the other hand, my father is a narcissist, my mother is probably one too, and so is my ex....Acted exactly like her.
What I liked about Dr. Melfi was that although she developed personal feelings for Tony overtime She never slept with him. Which is a good thing because he would have chewed her up spit her out like all the others and he would have lost respect for her and left therapy.
I don't know, when I first watched the show I thought they would be a power couple
@@ripvanwinkler1548 lol Tony is compulsive as fuck, he was a dog that was never being domesticated.
@@ripvanwinkler1548 red dead reference in your name ?
@@lukasskywalker6514don't goto therapy they'll tell you something you don't like
@@miketrujillo3677In order to change, you need to face the truth.
I love how he confides in her about the copious amounts of murder in his line of work, but tearing a magazine page is the final straw for Dr. Melfi.
The magazine page incident made their relationship look more like a marriage.
Lots of people will continue to convince themselves of their own delusions for as long as they can spin the facts and evidence to suit what they want to believe. Some people get lucky enough at some point to be confronted with something that makes reality plainly unavoidable.
Can you imagine if Tony had gone to visit the Jewish Doctor. Oh man that would have been amazing to have heard the dialogue
The Jewish doctor would’ve gotten killed, he would tell Tony what a bullshitter he is and Tony wouldn’t be able to handle it
@@Johnnysmithy24 "Take it easy, we're not making a western here"
Tony wouldn't kill him, he'd just piss and moan, break a few things and slam the door on the way out. Killing a shrink would bring too much heat
@@anthonydunkley7844 Yea
I think that guy would be wise enough to not bother
@@anthonydunkley7844 Yeah, he just would have left and never come back (which maybe means he would have wasted much less time than Melfi).
Tony: I can't open up to women
Also Tony: *Personally chooses a therapist that is a woman*
Needs replacement for his mother, but is also terrified of maternal figures 🤷🏼♀️
I like the theory that as long as Tony has a chance of redemption he sees Melfi - but in the final episode he has no chance for redemption anymore. Thematically speaking, the doors are all shut. I do think, ultimately, that she has seen through his bullshit. It matters how she got there, and I think she was utterly lacking in professionalism regarding Tony, but stll, she was right to dump him. She should also dump Elliot, by the way. Let him know that gossiping about her patient drunkenly at a party was way out of line.
🤣🤣🤣 Elliot my boy !
Weird how I watched the same show as you but I get the complete opposite take. What a spectacular show it is. The best ever.
@@sole__doubt It's a mark of a great show, that there's so much nuance.
Tony often questioned why he kept coming to therapy. I dont think Tony really wanted to change, I think he kept going to therapy because he saw Melfi as a friend that he could talk to in a way nobody else could. and the times he tried to become romantic with her, it was like Tonys attempt to leave his life for a healthier more normal life
Not a friend, a mother. Tony was always searching for a mother figure since his was his own personal devil. Melfi was the closest he had that wasn't a romantic partner, and that meant a lot to him. That's why some men and women sleep around constantly, they are trying to find a way to replace the opposite sex parent in a weird way, to find that acceptance they never got as kids. Tony was notorious for it too.
The scenes with Melfi are basically allowing us to study the depth of Tony's character. She was never capable of helping him, only rationalizing to the audience why he is who he is.
It was interesting when Tony went to see another therapist that the other therapist refused to see him past the first visit.
Bcuz of Analyze This
She meant well, but she's too "nice'. She's scared to be tough with him. He tells her so many horrific stories especially about his childhood. She gives him the "Lightbulb" Moment many times but he doesn't listen to her. In the LGBT community alot of men go for therapy like the Late Chester Weinberg the former Mentor of Calvin Klein over his sexuality but he stopped. Also if you took every actor/actress out of therapy in Hollywood, there'd be nobody left. The guy who Carmella counselled with should have been perfect for him.
I thought the "break up" HAD to be rough and abrupt. Dr. Melfi feared Tony was a master manipulator who could talk her into continuing...
I think she genuinely wanted to help him. I think she saw it as a challenge for herself. However, I don't think she realized how manipulative he would be.
Comedic gold on The Sopranos 9:23 Tony telling someone else what they're doing to him is immoral.
But remember he's just a soldier
The hypocrisy 🤣💀
There's a saying: "People change, but not much."
As you pointed out, Melfi and Tony's sessions probably helped him make a couple of positive changes (like reducing his panic attacks), but they were never going to be able to do something like cure him of sociopathy. So within the realm of what she could reasonably do, perhaps she was a decent therapist. But if she thought, again, that she had a shot at significantly treating his sociopathy, then she was deluding herself.
Right. She was treating a sociopath, they don’t like changing or taking responsibility.
Some people dramatically change. I’ve seen it happen firsthand. It’s rare but it can happen. Most of the time you are right though.
@@Handgun777 The thing is, He had the chance to change, but pu'ss betrayal and livia literally haunting him after her death changed him and made tony more paranoid, then Junior was sent to Jail and the Lupertazzi started to intervene hard, he had all the chances to change, but he didn't in the end.
While the series was going on, I was hoping for at least one full hour episode of a therapy session between Tony and Melfi. Mainly because the their therapy sessions were my favorite parts of the series.
Such a BS the most boring part of the series skipped most of them
@@user-mf5ue6rc5n Good for you, sweetheart.
@@user-mf5ue6rc5nskipped most of them? I’d say you need to rewatch the entire thing with a different mindset if you want to get the most out of this show and appreciate it for what it really is
@@aydiar it's overrated that's what it is . Sopranos is nothing more than a glorified series .
@@user-mf5ue6rc5noh buddy why would you watch it if it wasnt your type of a show.. now you look so wrong
"Many fans were upset with the lack of resolution in their story."
And then of course they got the finale...
What do you mean? She is not in the finale?
@@bas_ee He means that they got even less resolution in the finale
@@thebadwolf3088 Ah, thanks for explaining
Tony got deleted by the guy in the "Members Only" jacket after he came out of the bathroom. David Chase has since confirmed this.
@@williamhermann6635I've seen others say he's been misquoted and never stated Tony's fate
I viewed it as a tragedy. On a deep level, I think she really wanted to help him as much as he really wanted help. Unfortunately, his upbringing and the sociopathic tendencies that nurtured, as well as the truth of his life in the Mob got in the way and made it impossible.
I completely agree
Wow quite impressed that Kino actually went out of his way to bring therapists onto his channel!
You should note that the woman is a licensed psychologist while the man is a therapist. In most countries, therapist is an unregulated term anyone can call themselves, rehardless of education/training/licensing. A licensed psychologist requires a graduate degree (if not a phd) in order to call themselves that in most countries. I have no idea what education the man has (he might very well be incredibly qualified), but I know for a fact that the woman has years of specialized training behind her opinion.
As I recall my fav bit in the entire series was when it was figured out how Tony's panic attacks tended to be brought on by meat, due to him having a particularly bad childhood memory involving the family's butcher.
Yeah I picked up on this and it was never really raised again
I'm actually more fascinated by that fact that you managed to find a mental health professional who HADN'T watched The Sopranos before.
The thing about it that is interesting is that Melfi in many ways couldn’t be a good therapist to Tony. They uncovered what caused the panic attacks and those were largely resolved. However, Tony never viewed his own narcissism and sociopathy as a problem (those types almost never do), so really no amount of therapy regardless of who the therapist is would fix Tony. I would say Tony Soprano is incurable.
Most people with mental illnesses are uncurable. You can't cure genetics. You can however make it easier to tone it down and make it much easier to manage.
Nearly incurable. I wouldn’t go as far as to say he’s a lost cause
@@jimirsayssponsor5844Why not?
@@CT--jv2ur Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
I think she was. The only reason Tony didn't get better because he was stuck in the mafia.
..or maybe because he was a dangerous sociopath
I dunno. Modern psychiatrist have complained about her.
@@Bale4Bond both
@@DanJuega yeah but I mean, this show aired years ago so can we really compare 2022 psychiatrists to ones from 1999
@@ilovehotmoms5804 We would need a psychiatrist to tell us.
I think Melfi was good. For a person who really wants to get help and get better, she can be very effective. Tony didn’t really want to get better.
That failure is more on Melfi, it was her job to make Tony realize why it benefits him to get better. That's the single most important job of a therapist
We can't blame Dr Melfi for Tony becoming more evil as time went on. The weight of being the boss of the family and the events surrounding that took it's toll on him.
100 percent agree
It's too bad Jackie got cancer. Losing him was the beginning of the end for that entire crime family. Him being alive throughout the show would have given Jersey a better outcome against the Brooklyn family. Hell, maybe that war would never have escalated. Plus he coulda helped keep his brother Richie in line after his release.
@@ict113090 This right here. In the brief span of time we saw Jackie’s leadership style, he showed he was cool-headed, intelligent and fair. His way of steering the ship commanded respect.
@@nxtwomenfan497 You're right I think Tony fukked everything up everything went downhill with his reign as it did with the real jersey mob kinda ironic
Melfi, however, could have admitted that to herself and ended therapy on a better note (if possible) earlier.
Young man you so dedicated and the not only have you gifted us all the finest rundown of Sopranos episodes /series but you have flowed on to these further angles without losing any value and I'm... well I guess you can see I'm impressed and I thank you once again and best wishes 🙏
A huge motivator for Melfi ending it when she did has everything to do with Eliot gossiping, revealing Tony's name at the dinner party filled with therapists, clearly an ethical violation that will no doubt spill into the wider world... IMHO this pushed her over the edge, and the study served more as a rationalization.
Melfi failed HIPAA standards of protecting patient identity and information. HIPAA violations of this degree require medical board investigations and the medical practitioner opens themselves up to civil suits. Subconsciously, she wanted people to know she was treating a dangerous celebrity, which adds to the theory she gets a thrill from treating Tony in general.
When did she fail HIPAA?
@@Chinintoo16 when revealing tony's identity to her own therapist.
Call the Hippa police!!
@@potatobro6380but didn’t she blurt it out by mistake when she was getting frustrated? And it was with her own therapist too so?
Doesn’t she also say stuff like “if you tell me about crimes where you’re hurting people I have to report that” and flat out ignore overt signs of that? If she existed irl she’s immoral af, as a character device I don’t think we’re *supposed* to see her that way.
I think sopranos is well written, especially compared to its television contemporaries… but people put it on a pedestal I don’t think it deserves.
Sociopathic narcissists see a therapist as a challenge. They are right and the therapist is wrong.
Maybe the Sopranos is Tony in purgatory and looking back on his life and Dr Milfy is an Angel helping him accept his death. The last scene is his actual death and he revisits it so he can eat da besht onion ringsh in da tri-state area.
We all get so caught up in Tony's game. He is a mass murder who is willing to kill anyone to get what he wants. Melfie legitimately tries to help him, but she doesn't know the scope of Tony's crimes. Tony deserved to get cut off like that.
I have to say the abrupt ending was (realistically) right. I feel that i like it.
I think the abrupt ending Melfi delivered was finally the crack in her armor. NO wire hangers EVER. She disregarded self-discipline and professionalism, which seemed a religion to her at her better moments.
There’s no way to treat or “correctly” cut off someone like tony.
No instruction for patient with a hot trigger finger?
Melfi's relationship with tony reminds me of a quote by Mark Twain "But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most"
Melfi's work with tony was in a way her praying for the devil, trying to heal/help tony despite what he is. But just as it would be taboo to walk into a church and ask to say a prayer for satan, it is taboo for melfi to try and help tony work out his issues. Melfi stuggles with this and becomes attached to tony because she realizes shes the only one willing to help him, and like a doctor treating a patient she knows its her responsibility to help tony no matter how awful the things tony does are. Imagine an ER doctor had a patient come in who was a convicted rapist, a doctor wouldnt question weither or not to treat said patient because what the patient is isnt their concern, their only concern is to treat people "do no harm" . This is what melfi does but instead of treating external wounds she works on tony's internal wounds, something that we in out society still dont view with the same level of urgency and priority.
I think this is probably true at first, but if she feels this way, why dump him in the end? I don't think a single study is a good justification, clinically speaking nor in the case of her motivations. It was, at least in part, the judgement she received from her peers for "praying for Satan". She ultimately decides, "screw Satan, he probably can't be helped, I need to just save myself"
Melfi can’t be judged as either a good or bad clinician just because of occasional countertransference. It’s more often than not, an entirely unconscious process. Even so, it’s not necessarily always a bad thing. Clinicians are HUMAN. Through the season, we see signs of Tony’s transference in Melfi. We see how it affects her. She dreads seeing him. That’s usually the first sign. Maybe she should have dropped him as a client then, but she’s not a “bad clinician” for struggling with that decision.
It’s also really not a therapist’s job to pass judgement on their clients, give objective advice, or necessarily give moral assessments. It’s amazing to me how many people have no idea what therapy is for. Carmela’s Doctor gave objective advice because she was in crisis, and she explicitly. asked for advice.
Lmao come on. She completely ignores overt hints that Tony hurts and kills people. She explicitly says she has to report that. If I’m remembering correctly anyway.
She’s implicit even if that wasn’t happening because she knew who he was and reports on what was happening under him were on television all throughout the series.
It IS a therapist's job to pass judgements and give objective advice. I think you have confused a psychologist with a Peer Advocate (who can't do those things).
A diagnostic conclusion is a judgement. A course of treatment is professional advice.
@MomMom4Cubs as a therapist...no its not our job to give advice. In fact, we're trained to do more listening and inquiring than flat out giving advice.
If a client asks, you go through scenarios with them and explore what they think they should do. If you give advice, and it doesn't work, it can damage the therapeutic relationship.
A big part of the reason Tony would never be able to benefit from therapy is simply due to his external reality of being a mob boss. Had he become a more compassionate, kind person it would have put himself and his entire family at risk. This is why therapy for him was constantly one step forward two steps back.
Melphi had good intentions, but seemed guilable and naive at times
Psychiatrist? that's just a racket for the Jew's! -Livia
Based
Based
Based
more like Dr. Milfy amirite
I’m glad they didn’t make her a love interest. I feel her cutting tony out of her life was for the best. Tony just didn’t want to get better, and eventually would’ve gotten Melfi killed sooner or later.
She was a very useful tool to inform the audience about Tony's feelings and thoughts.
She ended it all for the right reasons which are the professional conclusions (from her, her therapist and the study) that she cannot properly help Tony.
Realistically, however, the realization comes years too late, which in real world terms makes her a poor therapist.
As someone who has gone through many therapists, I would have loved to find one like Melfi. She seemed more concerned in helping Tony realize why he was having the feelings and thoughts that he was, in a way I saw as of getting to the root of the problem. She never passed judgement on Tony, and she never tried to make a generalization of "Everything will be fine."
The choice of the name "Soprano" has always intrigued me. The meaning of the word and its etymology and why the name was chosen for the main character. I wonder, given that castrato's were men whose genitals had been amputated to enable them to sing in the range of a soprano in the 16 to 18th centuries, was Tony living his life in a manner that "proved" that he had not been castrated? It's a very american phrase for men to claim that someone who takes big risks is, lets say, well endowed, so I always wondered if Tony was subconsciously reacting against his own name.
This reminds me of Leotardi's complaint
This is just something I have noticed from watching the sopranos. Season 1 her office is bright from sunlight and generally bright. But as the seasons progress the office gets darker and darker. But when she stops seeing Tony her office is bright again.
I’m continually so impressed how great you are at this. It’s just an insane amount of dedication outside of just making the videos. Wow.
Thank you so much!
you went out of your way for this video Kino, I think everyone appreciated it, cheers!
Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this...
Just taking Melfi as a character, and sticking to her role in the story, she is our point of view character for Tony's emotions. She is supposed to be us. She gets angry at him, questions why she continues her work with him, and even has a hard time talking about anything else but him. When you look at her this way, I feel she can be a character people can come to enjoy more.
She spent 6 years treating a patient, that she knew was borderline psycho but still went with it
8:20 I should note that Tony does have a very minor panic attack when Meadow Gold loses in "Chasing It". Tony's vision obscures, the audio slows down, and it looks like he's about to pass out before he gets ahold of himself.
I also feel like Melfi’s attachment to Tony was to irresistible for her and I feel it really was the best thing for her to drop him as a patient. As much as she cared about him and really wanted to help heal his wounds she then realized that maybe it’s to late for Tony and he can not be helped. I also feel like she felt like she was just wasting her breath at that point, and Tony was just refusing to get better. I also feel like whenever Melfi would talk to her own therapist and whenever she would open up to him about these personal feelings she had for Tony I kinda get the feeling that she has always been attracted to guys like Tony who is also a masculine Alfa Male she just never talked about it. I also think that it’s a possibility that Tony may be cursed as well and she has been carrying this curse with her and it was time to let it go before it’s to late. If Tony wasn’t such a narcissistic, sociopath then maybe it’s a possibility that he could’ve been easily treated. But unfortunately due to Tony’s upbringing he was just prone to depression, and a life of crime. I mean honestly Tony can blame it on his upbringing all he wants but there was even at one point where Melfi tried to make Tony understand that it’s real easy to blame it on your upbringing but at the end of the day you are the one in control of your decisions in which path you choose to go down in life. Tony is the one who made the conscious decision to be in the mafia and rise in the ranks as the capo. Because the thing is whenever people have shitty upbringing sometimes they rise above it and also sometimes people become consumed by it. And in Tony’s case he became consumed by his upbringing and chose a life of crime. I honestly believe that if Tony during his younger years would’ve seen and realize the hell and misery that awaits him if he goes down the path of being in the mafia I believe he would’ve done the right thing and went to college like he wanted to and just went down a straight narrow path. But either way I feel like Tony would’ve been miserable either way and I don’t think that he would’ve enjoyed living a boring normal life and basically being a nobody and being like everybody else. I feel like in his mind being a mob boss was better than being a nothing but as much as it also brought him a lot of pain and suffering I feel like he would rather deal with the misery of being the boss of a crime family then deal with the misery of every day normal boring suburban life. Because at least in the mafia he felt like he was something,, something bigger and larger than life and being a part of something greater than himself. I also feel like it’s where he gained some of his confidence and it made him at times feel good and feel strong. But at the end of the day it turned him into an asshole, cold, and cynical. And it also brought out the monster in him, we all always have two sides of our personalities and we all go through our doctor Jekyll and Mr. Hyde phases. And it reminds us that there’s good and bad and everybody. All of the bad things aside Tony also had some good qualities to him he loved animals, he was at times a good father to Meadow and AJ, I wouldn’t necessarily say he was a good husband because he did cheat on Carmela a lot but at the same time though he did also love her too and there was good moments between Tony and Carmela. I honestly feel like the best thing Tony ever did was killing Ralphie because let’s be honest that sick son of a bitch had it coming and if Tony wasn’t going to do it someone else was eventually gonna whack him. Because honestly Tony did do a lot of bad shit but honestly I feel like Ralphie was worse than Tony he was just a sick twisted freak. And for me when Ralphie killed the horse and when he killed Tracy that was in my opinion way more of a terrible heinous act.
Excellent assessment 👍
I think it's hard to evaluate Dr. Melfi as a therapist for me because somebody like Tony Soprano is near impossible to treat. Somebody like Tony could push even the best of therapists to their absolute limits.
And yeah, I would also say that I agree with the analysis that it's hard to box Melfi into a category, a bit like most of the characters in the show, which I think is what Chase is trying to get at.
I think Melfi dumped Tony out of embarrassment from her friend's after the dinner party.
My thoughts exactly. On the money.
I really think that’s part of it, her therapist outing her like that and humiliating her would be a hit on anyone’s ego
I'd bet you that if the show continued she'd eventually take him back, this is more or less the same reason she dumped him as a client before embarrassment.
@@brennanc4321 to be fair, one of her clients did commit suicide because she wasn’t able to get to them because she was in hiding because of her relationship to Tony. But I think you’re right, after all her job is to deal with mental disorders
I think there's also a certain duty to Tony, once people violated her confidentiality, she had to drop him as a patient for his safety and her own. (Imagine if the FBI tried to squeeze her)
That's how therapy goes sometimes or even with people in your life. Relationships can often end abruptly, someone moving, retiring, or a conflict of interest, things just... end sometimes. I've had abrupt changes in therapists, from one to another even if I had been with one for years. I've never had a therapist straight out kick me out and end counciling sessions, but I can see how she has the right to do so should she see fit to.
Edit: man I love/miss the old style analysis videos, so this one was a real treat! Don't get me wrong, I like the summary episode videos as well because I'm tuned in and every time I see a new one I am super excited to watch it! I'm just a sucker for analysis videos I guess haha great job Kino-Sabe 🤙🏻
The part where Melfi says seeing Tony again would be very therapeutic for her, and Elliot says it's not supposed to be therapeutic for her because her therapy is with him, Elliot...
I know what Elliot is trying to say, but at the same time he just seems like the worst therapist in the world lol he's like just a bump on a log that seems to offer little to no meaningful advice, and he also seems very judgemental, and then of course how he acts super unprofessional at the dinner... If I had him as a therapist and I couldn't change shrinks, I'd probably be finding ways to vicariously seek therapy through something or someone else like Melfi did.
Melfi also using one of her friend as her therapist is wierd
@@faisalkamal4319 yeah, what's up with that???
Well done, Kino! Thanks for another great video...and thanks fr the links to Allison and Phillip!
What a great video! Thank you so much for it.
Melfi's techniques as a therapist are all outstandingly good. The problem I felt is that she had so many nuanced feelings about her relationship with Tony that looked, at least from the outside, like triggers for her own issues. Her therapist would have been the one to address this and work her through it. Not continuing with Tony was necessary, and I agree that she waited too long, but her own underlying issues were preventing her from seeing him clearly. So her therapist saying she is there for him and not for herself is the core issue here. She was getting an emotional and psychological payoff by the therapy with him, and that is the reason for ending it.
Another great, insightful video!
The important thing to know is Narcissists make you think for a long time that you can change them, but eventually you realize it's all a con. Everything a Narcissist does is a con.
Jennifer Melfi: My patient is the worst.
Bedelia Du Maurier: Bitch Please! :)
You, sir, are premium content. I am a huge proponent of therapy, and I appreciate you educating yourself. Loved having guests on the channel! It was interesting to get a non-fan's opinion.
That being said, I agree with Bracco that Melfi cared about Tony. I think it would have been more difficult to quit him. In the show, I think she did so so unceremoniously because her "friend" Elliott outed her! She used Tony like alcohol and was embarrassed her actions became public.
Yes! She is embarrassed, can barely believe she has been tarnished. But the bigger sin was her therapist (so detached at their sessions) outing her over food, wine, and colleagues. Shame on him.
@Pure Kino , can you please do a video about the only true love story in the Sopranos - Tony and Artie? Artie was able to borrow 50k, beat up Benny, convince Tony to not murder the Pedo and point a gun all without Tony's punishment! Tony's one true love!
I'm putting this response in a place of prominence 😃
Kino, another great video, thanks! Dr. Allison reminds me in several different ways of Meadow, even her looks. She'd be a great counselor to Meadow in the next phase of the show, when Meadow becomes the head of the family and has the same probs that T did (Meadow having problems with her own mothere who is now enamored by Furio and he wants to take over from Meadow).
Viewers should note that being licensed psychologist requires at least a graduate degree (if not a phd) in clinical psychology in many countries, whereas "therapist" is an unregulated job title anyone can ca themselves. Of the two people consulted for this video, I'm much more inclined to take the word of the woman who is a licensed psychologist.
I cannot criticize how Tony and Melfi split up, it felt real... authentic and something that would happen IRL. Regarding whether she was a good therapist, Tony is a textbook narcissist, every person they meet is an opportunity to take advantage of and manipulate as they mention many times in the show. Being the boss in some ways requires narcissism - if he suddenly had a revelation that what he's doing is bad, then he'd have to completely give up his lifestyle, the mob and so forth (which would put him and his family in jeopardy.) Good stuff, thank you for the vid.
EDIT - Unfinished thought. So basically, there is nothing she could do. She probably should have handed this case off to someone else, but was somewhat emotionally involved / intrigued. Can't blame her for being human, but professionally there isn't much you can do with a narcissist like Tony because he's in a very deadly lifestyle that requires him to do violent acts (in theory, at least everyone asks him to murder other people.. he's directly in charge of disputes that inevitably our out of his control)
(spoilers)
the simple fact that Melfi didnt use her position on tony to get revenge on her rapist shows that no matter her flaws she still tried as good as she could, she is honestly a good psychiatrist on many other plans.
Great content as always thank you for your hard work 👏
Cool perspective and good research thanks
I understand why Melfi didn't tell him about her attack, but a small small part of me wished she would have so he could find the bastard and get justice for her. But I do understand why she didn't.
She's one of my favorite characters. She's pretty incredible.
Great video Kino.
I saw Melfi as someone who adapted to what she had to work with professionally. She definitely broke some ethical principles when it came to discussing Tony outside of work, but she remained as professional as she could during treatment.
Tony was making significant progress but he was never going to strive for better change. Melfi recommended him going to CBT to progress from psychotherapy, quitting his job in the mafia, and challenging his thoughts and lifestyle. But the series proved that Tony would never truly get better because of his involvement in the mafia. So the ending of the show hit harder when Melfi took the professional route and dropped him as a patient, showing us that he was hopeless in redemption at that point
Short answer: No.
Long answer: No, but she was a damn good consigliere.
She was second best first was sil
That's absolutely beautiful! Perfect comment.
Everybody is making this more complex than it needs to be. This is a relationship between a man and a woman. It's impossible to deny that Tony and the Doctor were attracted to each other. Melfi knew from the very first episode that Tony was a mobster and this excited her. She compromised immediately because she was curious and thrilled by this dangerous man. This wasn't a romantic relationship exactly, but it was a mutual affection dynamic. Tony liked that she was Italian, and pretty. Also, Tony was a hound, so his attraction was primal. The ending of the relationship was prefect since this is the way most relationships end. It's never pretty and never satisfying. Melfi ended the relationship because she felt like she was being used and unappreciated. Even the trivial matter of the magazine was only a final straw that proved to her that Tony was completely selfish. Tony also had mommy issues and Melfi was his surrogate mother. Tony couldn't communicate with his wife, his mother and even his daughter. Melfi was a woman who allowed him to expose his vulnerable side without judgement. Tony felt as if he could communicate with Melfi. This means he came to rely on his being able to vent during his sessions. When Tony tried to confide in friends, it was a complete failure. Both Tony and Melfi were in need of the other. Tony needed a gentle listener. And Melfi needed a challenge in hopes of breaking out of her own psychological prison. After all, she also had a therapist and her own issues. Tony and Melfi became co-dependent on the other for the wrong reasons. I love the dynamic of the relationship. It's so true to life, and mirrors my own interactions in therapy with women. I've seen firsthand what drives social workers to want to take on an almost impossible task. They want to save the world. Melfi wanted to save Tony, so she could save herself.
Tony wanted to be nurtured. Tony was a baby.
Idk man, that sounds kinda complex ahaha
@@chasejordan9295 exactly
@@chasejordan9295 I don't think so. He's describing normal male/female interaction.
@@yannick245 Yea, that ain't "normal" to be attracted to a sociopathic killer my boy. It's normal to be attracted to excitement and adventure, and a strong male and all that, but not normal to be attracted to *that.*
Through most of the second half of the show, Melfi was no longer attracted to Tony in any way, she even became repulsed by him. She really wanted to help him though and it took her a while to really see and believe that the kind of therapy she was giving him just wasn't helping.
I was married to a man who was diagnosed as a malignant narcissist. He was always in therapy. Several of his therapists dumped him because he became rude and violent, but some clearly enabled them and told him ways to justify his actions
The entire rationale for Melfi dumping Tony/ending his therapy only points out her flaws as a therapist since HIS goal was NEVER to "cure" him of his criminal behavior but to cope better with his stress and panic attacks, the idea of reforming or curing Tony of being a criminal was a notion she imposed onto his therapy in her own mind for her own reasons.
interesting. you think it's irresponsible of her to want to address his sociopathy and try and guide him towards leading a better life? especially considering that his criminal life is the center of his grapple with control and his panic attacks. they essentially DO want the same things. tony simply can't reconcile his emotional needs with his material ones.
@@morgangunning30 Melfi may have had good intentions in thinking she could sway Tiny away from the mob life but that goal was always HER intentions not Tony's in fact the one time she hopefully suggested to him that he "leave the life..." Tony scoffed at and showed absolutely zero interest in such a possibility. Therefore the fact remains that her hopes of steering Tony away from his life of crime were misguided and irrelevant to HIS goals in seeking therapy no matter how well intended she was about it. I think it was very unethical of her to drop him so abruptly as a patient the way she did when she came to believe HER goals in HIS therapy were probably unfeasible and unlikely to be achieved in accordance with fulfilling HER satisfaction.
@@juanramirez-wk8ty i genuinely think you fundamentally don't understand tony's condition if you think he would ever actually achieve what he wanted to get out of therapy without giving up crime, or that melfi was selfish about their sessions in any way. all i can say is, maybe try giving it another watch 👍
@@morgangunning30 I think I understand the situation perfectly well, I have watched the entire series several times from start to finish so I do not think I am misunderstanding anything. I never said I think Tony would ever achieve a "happy life" through therapy but that was never his goal in the first place, he wanted to relieve his panic attacks which he did achieve to a certain point, so that he could be more successful in his life of crime, not the best goal to have but Melfi understood this perfectly well and despite this chose to continue seeing Tony anyway, that was her fault. She was happy to continue therapy with him so long as she felt she could achieve the outcome she erroneously imposed onto the situation, she was not above terminating the case abruptly when she realized her goals were not likely to be achieved, bad ethics. A more responsible professional might have at least chosen a more positive way of ending the relationship, perhaps even confronting Tony with the idea that he is prone to being fundamentally dishonest with not only the therapy but himself as the study that was the the catalyst for her change in attitude suggests, the way she went about ending their relationship was not only unethical but selfish and cowardly.
It wasn’t Melfi. Tony was too much of sociopath to be helped
She never should have seen him after he physically assaulted her. End of story
If each therapist has a therapist who is the therapist to the most therapists
She was never afraid of tony. She liked it and loved him, he made her feel special and successful
Kino, you should probably do a video on this: the overarching theme of the show was how everyone is full of shit. A hypocrite, in some way. Fielder even brought it up, when she was having the conversation with Tony while he was drunk in S2.
Melfi is probably very good at what she does, but seeing Tony was her hypocrisy, her full of shit at work. Her little thrill, basically. Her life is surrounded by the mundane (not the sacred and the propane). Her boring ass husband who's just a sensible guy (and a bit nonsensical with his Italian victimhood bs), her basic ass son with his snarky ways and liberal arts education. Her even keeled therapist. The boring guy she was seeing while still divorced, who crumbled easily when faced with something abnormal.
Tony's critique of therapy was valid, despite everything else. First world problems, how we have it all and we're still bored and miserable. It's a chaffing commentary on us, and Melfi is sort of a reflection of that. Yet, we can't really side with Tony's life either. Full of excitement, but also death, betrayal, depression, etc.
Excellent points N Saad 👍
A therapist who takes your money for longer than 6 months of a bad therapist.
The dynamics between lawful good and chaotic evil are always thrilling
Ripping the page was not "the straw". It was just an excuse or something that she mentions. The reason was because of the article, that says that their sessions are being used for Tony to hone his manipulative skills. Tearing off the page has nothing to do with that.
Wasen't it AJ telling Livia that Tony visits a shrink, and Livia then playing Junior like a child and puts the idea in his head to have Tony killed?
Yeah AJ dropped the ball
It's not a cop-out answer at all... the show (like life) is far too complicated for such a reductive answer as yes or no. I think Melfi may be a great therapist for someone who wants real change, but the only change Tony wants is to stop having panic attacks, mainly in order to thrive as a mafia boss... as you said, judging by his absence of attacks by the final season, the therapy could be considered a "success".
However, those panic attacks are a result of the life he leads - the symptom, not the cause... repeated panic attacks can be the wake-up call you need to turn your life around. But instead of changing his behavior, he wants to be able to continue causing incredible pain & devastation, only without his conscience screaming out and incapacitating him. You can see Melfi occasionally pleading with him to fundamentally alter his life, but he seems to be learning about his conscience merely to shut it out, to better manipulate others and to supply himself with excuses for acting the way he does. He has become far worse by the end of the series - committing several horrific acts that would've previously caused more attacks - yet he no longer has them. By series end, he has finally become the mythic _golem,_ the walking dead; you can see it in his eyes during his peyote trip in the Vegas casino, when his "luck" changes... he is dead inside.
Progress? 🤔 I think not lol... but that's on Tony. The conundrum from episode one, is that any true growth on his part would almost certainly necessitate him leaving the Jersey mob. Of all the critiques Chase gives us of American society, this is one of the greatest, to me: our tendency to always treat the symptoms of a problem, never the root cause. Tony only lets Melfi help with symptoms, not the cause...
Fantastic analysis ✨️
I think it was classic listening to your heart vs your head. She finally listened to her head. Life is hard.
Her defence of gumbah crystal was hilarious
The first time Tony exploded on her, she should have had him locked up.
Well the power he and his family has. Shed be dead
@@mikimiyazaki Yea. She would have been toast but I think that it was probably the "ethical" thing for her to do.
That would literally do nothing loll he’d b out in a week
@@ptylio6149 Yea. But he would be a nutcase on file. Everyone would know and she'll probably be swimming with the fishes.
@@ptylio6149 try about 5 hrs
Psychiatry? That’s nothin’ but a racket for the Jews. At least according to Livia.
Or anyone based
@@woahblackbetty7691 nice
@@woahblackbetty7691 BASED DEPARTMENT CALLING
The only healing Tony ever got over the course of his treatment, was the realization he wasn't getting better. Melfi gave him the gift of understanding that life doesn't have to be this way.
Therapy what happened to Gary Cooper the strong silent type that's what I want to knoe