Racial/Ethnic Differences in IQ Test Scores: The Case for Environmental and Social Justice
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- čas přidán 31. 03. 2021
- In this webinar recording, twelve years of research into differences in Wechsler FSIQ scores between Whites, African Americans, and Hispanics are summarized for WISC-V, WAIS-IV, and WISC-IV both before and after controlling for socioeconomic status. The data presented shows that SES accounts for more of the difference with children than adults, and Hispanics than African Americans. The presenter explains that cognitively enriching environments stimulate intellectual growth and development while cognitively impoverishing environments inhibit intellectual development. In addition, compelling data is presented showing that SES is unequally distributed across racial / ethnic groups, and this intersectionality of class and environmental opportunity is a matter of social justice.
Presenter: Lawrence G. Weiss, PhD
Date: March 31, 2021
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#IQ #IQtest #Psychologist #SchoolPsychologist #Neuropsychologists #IntelligenceQuotient #Intersectionality
it's not SES, it's race.
What's SES?
@@EbonyPope socioeconomic status, it's defined in the video as well as in the description
@@toobalkain Thanks. Hadn't watched the video far enough.
@Racialist Slayer what "genetics" would that be?
Why does our society waste so much time on this topic you need to be around the ghetto people any higher iqu person can observe obvious lower iqu behavior -diction mannerisms and aggression to easily signify the black peoples lower IQ hence their poverty and inability to progress in a complex and demanding society what a waste of intellectual energy to determine black people have a feasible intellect at all
The problem is if you control for SES you are left with the racial differences re: Asian, white, black & Hispanic.
SES is not the only factor that must be controlled. Cultural attitudes toward certain traits, stigmas, pressure, and an innumerable amount of other factors/influences, must be accounted for. Race IQ science is largely conjecture and amounts to nothing when put under any scrutiny.
Non native speaker here... What does SES mean?
@@EbonyPope socioeconomic status
The official IQ test I’ve done simply involved solving problems, pattern recognition and how fast the brain can process the information. That in a nutshell measures intelligence accurately and there’s a reason why some societies advanced whilst some have stagnated and even regressed.
Untrue. Speed is not the determining factor in intelligence. Intelligence is varied. In reality, the reason some societies have stagnated and regressed has nothing to do with marginally lower scores on a test, but it has to do with circumstances unique to the environment. Things you would not know unless you've studied said society, or perhaps lived there. You lack scope. For every complex question, there is a simple answer, which also happens to be wrong.
@@apenguicitis4395 what environments have prevented growth to a society and how?
@@frusciantesplectrum7980 Geographic differences, such as an arid north, and lush south occupying the same border create a rift between the ethnic groups living there, causing social instability. Not too uncommon in Subsaharan Africa. Wars fought over land disputes are also not conducive to societal growth. Young nations, corrupt leaders, and the inability to support critical workers prevent growth as well. The causes vary between nations, but the result is the same.
@@apenguicitis4395 Africa was and is taken by the rest of the world because the technological weapons were far more superior. Africa is huge, far bigger than it looks on a world map. Plenty of resources, but not enough intelligence to build an empire…. The only societies that did flourish were domestic between other African tribes/societies. The only society that was truly powerful coming out of Africa were the Egyptians.
@@frusciantesplectrum7980 Do you have literally 0 knowledge of history? There were plenty of African empires that were, depending on their location, on par with contemporaries at the time. I'll list a few off the top of my head: Mali/Songhai, Zimbabwe, Nubians, Egypt as you mentioned, Ethiopia which remained unconquered, the Zulu of South Africa, and literally dozens more. These empires did not collapse because of "lack of intelligence" but because the slave trade died off, leaving them bankrupt, causing instability and civil wars leading up to the scramble for Africa. These empires, particularly the ones in West Africa, literally were the driving force that built the English, Dutch, Portuguese, and American treasuries with the slaves they sold them for sugar farming in the Caribbean. These nations had an insufficient workforce for their operations, which were only made possible by slavery.
Yes IQ is based on GENETICS!
That's one possible explanation. We know that we all came out of Africa and that some groups chose to explore and move into Europe and Asia, while other groups chose to stay in Africa. If you think about Evolution, what traits would be necessary for survival among the groups that chose to explore Europe and Asia and encounter the unknown? I would propose that intelligence would be the primary trait. Now for the groups that stayed in Africa and continued to hunt for food and live tribal style, I would propose that strength and speed would be the traits necessary for survival. Evolution may be the explanation for why some races are smarter than others.
@@anonnon4737 HAVE YOU EVER TOOK THE TIME TO WONDER WHY THE EUROPEAN RACE IS SO ADVANCED?, IF YOU HAVE THEN YOU WILL FIND OUT THAT THEIR IS A SECRET REASON FOR THAT!, AND THAT REASON IS BECAUSE THEY ARE THE DESCENDANTS OF HUMAN EXTRATERRESTRIALS WHO WERE EVEN MORE INTELLIGENT!, AND ADVANCED THAN THEY ARE NOW!
@Racialist Slayer Asians are smarter than europeans and europeans than arabs and arabs than africans, so you are wrong and that tendency is present among all countries, not just one or two and between countries that are dominated by particular ethnicity and even between adopted children of particular race.
Of course there are genes that are way more present among particular race or ethnic group.
Ye Africans were as advanced as Europeans, thats why EUrope with barely margin amount of military potential was able to conquer whole Africa without any problem, transporting all necessary logistics thousands kilometers across seas and ocean.
So you'd assume that snakes are super smart since they are capable of surviving in that environment?
The harshest selector are not some wild animals, but weather and climate. In Africa it's super easy to get food and any dumbass could grab berries or bananas and reproduce.
@Racialist Slayer Another thing to consider is that anyone can come up with any evolutionary just-so story to "explain" anything. That's what makes the Cold Winters theory so unconvincing. Historically, Europeans lived a life of subsistence and only began building civilization after absorbing influence from the Middle East (which introduced such things as agriculture, city building, writing, and mathematics). So if anything, it seems that cold climates were _unfavorable_ to civilization, which racialists correlate positively with IQ.
I'm willing to bet that if it had been _blacks_ that adapted to the cold, racialists would claim their brains never developed faculties for innovation because they were too busy just surviving the brutal winters, whereas their white counterparts were able to innovate because the warm climates in which they lived enabled surplus agriculture, which in turn supported civilization, which in turn was conducive to new developments beyond mere survival such as writing, specialization of labor, etc, which in turn required their brains to adapt to these developments.
But because in reality _whites_ were the ones that adapted to the cold, the "explanation" is that the cold required innovation and planning, whereas the heat made life too easy for blacks. It's just motivated reasoning.
@@anonnon4737Out of Africa has been heavily questioned. Besides, only Whites and Asians have Neanderthal DNA, with Asians having more than Whites. Which two groups have the most successful countries? Whites and Asians. Yes, it is heavily genetic.
I find it strange that you mentioned South Korea as being a country that is low in affluence. Based on one list I found online, S. Korea ranks close to the UK in terms of affluence, so I find that very strange you would find that to be an outlier.
Your in race science CZcams. Take what you are or get out 😂
If I may ask under what criterion was this report issued for consumption of the College educated population.
Why weren't the differences between AA and Asians shown? What about the differences between Asians and Hispanics?
Furthermore, the statistical analyses around 28:00 are terribly executed. No sensitivity analysis / robustness checks? No jacknife estimation / tests for outliers? How do we even know the differences in R2 are statistically insignificant? At the very least some sort of bootstrapping should've been done. Adding more variables to a linear model can reduce the explanatory power of a variable, but what about the VIF? Multicollinearity between PED and race might make it look, as though race has little explanatory power.
Given Dr. Weiss' overall presumption that race does not matter and that any differences in IQ scores are wholly attributable to SES, the empirical analysis of the data seems like a foregone conclusion. The data will most certainly not be made available to the public, as this would open the researchers up to an audit.
Without a replication study one must call the results of the statistical analysis, and thus the speakers conclusion, into question.
The Hispanics don't get the same attention as African Americans and it is saddening. Imagine a truly united state of America (North and South). Is that hopeless?
You are putting the cart before the horse.
Genetics - Diet - Education (including parents and life experiences)
He has it all backwards. It is the IQ that produces stable homes and high income ,NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
@Racialist Slayer According to REAL research. Read The Bell Curve
@Racialist Slayer A Political Scientist with Richard Hernstein who was one of the most renowned Phycologists of the 20 th century
@Racialist Slayer Look up Jordan Peterson talks IQ. The Bell Curve is full of those studies. READ THE BOOK.
@Racialist Slayer Jordan peter is a psychologist which is a DOCTOR OF THE MIND. IQ is one is the foundations of psychology. We have spent countless billions of dollars trying to close the IQ gap and have made absolutely no progress. Studies were done with children adopted at birth by professional parents. At 18 they tested everyone in the family and the adopted children's IQs were random. Meaning they range in what you would find in random strangers., not what we find in biological children. Remember these kids were adopted at birth THEY HAD NO OTHER UPBRINGING. If as you say there is no genetic link, then we should be able to correct the problem, but we haven't. The Head Start Program was failure
@Racialist Slayer Robert Plomin, MRC Research professor in Behavioral Genetics at the institute of Psychology & neuroscience, Kings College London
Has Dr. Weiss read Charles Murray's recent book, _Facing Reality: Two Truths about Race in America_ ?
If he has, I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on it.
I have a simplistic approach to this discussion. Over 30 yrs ago I came to belief that most kids are born special, but their parents raise them as if they are avg and/or their environment effects their measured intelligence. I read somewhere that lack of good nutrition as well as stresses in daily life could account for up to one standard deviation lower IQ score.
I believe that we teach kids in the U.S so late and so slow that we don’t activate more of their intellectual abilities. That’s why most any kid who has involved parents, that teach early and expect exceptionalism, tend to be high achievers on test and school. And I thought, if poor, so called low IQ kids in Africa can learn several different languages by 3 yrs old, then learning to read and add by 3 wouldn’t be that difficult. And a child reading and adding by 3 yrs old would be considered special in most schools anywhere.
Here's my case for the affects of environment. I know this isn’t scientific but it worked very well.
I was just watching a youtube video called, “A family of geniuses lives in Keller, but more than good genes are at work” where the two biological kids of a couple are geniuses and both started college at 13 yrs old. They adopted a little girl from Ethiopia and exposed her to the same discipline and expectation environment as their bio children. She also started college at age 13 and is exceptional. Is it possible that they got lucky and adopted a genius or was it most likely their environment, which included home schooling, was the major cause of her success? Since I believe that most kids are born exceptional, these parent’s environment would have made most kids special.
Once I decided that most children were born special over 30 yrs ago and environment was the deciding factor, I set a goal to produce exceptional kids who were 1% earners. I didn’t want them to be limited in life by money so I planned to teach them early and talk to them about finance, business, compound interest and more before they were 10 yrs old. I decided to tell them they were special often and it was expected that they would be great compared to the masses. I told them that society looked down on blacks as not as intelligent as whites and Asians, so we will crush 99% of them. I used Asians as examples of discipline and let my kids know that they are considered the smartest group in the U.S. I made it competitive and said they should out achieve 99% of Asians in either school and/or wealth because I won’t let the Asian parents out parent me. I told them most kids are special too, but you have me, and we will smash the competition in most areas.
It worked out ok so far. My adult twenty something son set a multiplication record in the 3rd grade, started a business at 14 and also played college basketball for a top 25 school. He taught himself how to trade while in college balling and the year he graduated he made approx. $180k. My twenty something daughter learned to play two instruments and speak 3 languages. I would tell each one of them with a little humor, when the other wasn’t around, don’t let your brother/sister out do you, we need to smash him/her and we had a lot of fun with it. Today, my two adult children own THM Exotics in Las Vegas, and out earn 99% of the people in the U.S.
I learned a lot with my two older children, so when my daughter came along 8 years later. I was ready. We taught her alphabets and counting to 10 by one yrs old. Taught her to read, shapes/colors and to do addition by 3yrs old and by 4 she was writing. By 6 or 7 yrs, the school had her take the Weschler test administered by a psychologist and she was determined highly or ultra gifted. At around 10 yrs oId I showed her finance and trading, etc and told her she was smashing here siblings and everyone else. The results so far, she started college at 15 (would’ve been 14, but she didn’t want to skip another grade and leave more friends). She also, started a home-made hair bonnet business at 15. And because she likes k-pop so much, she taught herself to speak Korean and tested into the 2nd level in college. Koreans are so surprised to see a young black girl speak their language and it gives me great joy as a father. I have no doubt that she will be a multimillionaire as a by- product of her environment and not wanting her older siblings to out-do her. By-the-way, I’m not rich or a college graduate.
Along the way, I helped other kids and parents, and was surprised how well it worked. I now know that if you put most any kid in my household at one yrs old they will be exceptional at something. And I would say to any parent or person reading this, mostly likely you were born special and so were your kids, you/they just weren’t treated as if they were special.
Well it's probably just luck. The soviets tried as far as I remember to create little Einsteins with their education programs but it didn't work. You are ultimately limited by your genes. There are quite interesting twin studies about that.
Iq is lie
If this were true and could be replicated, you'd get about 4 Nobel Prizes and be interviewed by presidents and prime ministers around the world until the end of your days. There is no evidence showing that a person's intellectual ability can be meaningfully increased.
yeah but wage might not be the best metric of parenting skills, success or doing well in life.
@@greatgreat601 It might be but is has served my children well, along with discipline, focus, desire, love, hugs, humor, etc. What has worked for you? I'm always open to learning new ideas.
u have to be first and utmost politically correct, or you will be next Watson.
A billionaire?
Foolish talk.
In the real world, not only IQ, how strong one's body is also affect how much effort one can made. This is because the energy storage on one and the force he can use to do something. Mental and some basic force use eventually made succeed to make more effort. Like the factory, their simulating human behaviors, if one don't familiar with those force use way or method, they won't have an idea to simulate these force to make a machine. They also can robber other countries to get more resources. That's why even white people has lower IQ than Chinese, Japanese, Korean but still has more effort in recently 200 years.
Since whe is Race Norming an issue Dr Lawrence G Weiss.
Intelligence is largely fixed. It is most certainly inherited. And it is linked to a person's race.
The only accurate intelligence test must have nothing to do with what was previously exposed, taught or learned... Previously exposing a person to ideas and information and then claiming it's an innate ability is flawed
@@goodfather2894 This is incorrect. IQ tests are the best proxy we have for intelligence and they’re remarkably accurate. Certain groups (I’m sure you can guess which ones) do worse on these tests even after controlling for factors like socio-economic status.
@@jacobvandijk8596
IQ tests are mainly based on information obtained through academic education... in other words, this is mainly Environmental factors... this is a fact
@@jacobvandijk8596
You are pretending as if levels of exposure has nothing to do with an outcome of a test... if you've been exposed to more wrestling techniques, you will probably beat me at a wrestling
@@goodfather2894 Everything you’ve said is patently false. You can control for education and SES, and certain groups still do significantly worse (a whole standard deviation worse as a matter of fact).
Sub-saharan averages are only one standard deviation below US averages. Environment can't play that large a role here in the US where environment is much more favorable.
These observations are precursor to race based holocausts.
@@andrewgarza1369
You made me laugh.
@@psychicspy Interesting. What do you believe will be the outcome to such a conclusion about Subsaharan cognitive limits?
What will eventually happen if this assertion is taken seriously on a main stream basis?
@@andrewgarza1369
It will be important to determine the IQ of each individual, and not judge individuals by some average.
There will be sub-saharans with genius level IQs and they should be looked upon as a valuable resource. Everyone should be encouraged to strive to reach their maximum potential, and those with genius should be especially encouraged to develope their intellect.
@@psychicspy Ah, c'mon. You know no one's going to take the time to do that.
Human imagination prefers to identify patterns interwoven throughout systems.
In a bind, let's say, an arms race or a space race to one of Saturn's moons, and you can only select your engineers from Germany, Japan or Nigeria...
Which would you select from-- and remember, 'time is of the essence.'
I read and heard somewhere that Eskimos And Aleuts have averages in the 90s while the Mestizos have it in the mid eighties and Amerindians in the low eighties.
It's a fact that there are genetic differences in average IQ's between races.
@Racialist Slayer Every black country on Earth is a third world nation. That says it all right there.
Prove it then lol
@@phiteb "The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life" by Dr. Richard J Herrnstein and Dr. Charles Murray.
@Racialist Slayer Review the citation below.
@@Malikav0311 @Garon a book that has been consistently debunked by scientists (geneticists, neuroscientists, evolutionary biologists, etc) for decades 😂😂😂
Also the authors of that book unironically had no background in genetics lol
Lol. South Korea owns global technology products. Just a bit more country-research needed. Korea does have a huge wealth gap but cant be more than the US
It is a horror story in some cases.
How much higher is the East Asian iq compare to Western Europe?
6 points
@@hehenoelo4858 that’s in comparison to a northwestern population, some western European countries don’t have a mean iq of 100.
@@ben_alfred Im just telling approxmiated values, in different researches Asian countries also dont have 106, but 103, 105, etc.
Western world is becoming more mixed by race.
@@frusciantesplectrum7980 Whats Western Europe's average iq
I like coming to videos like this one just to see how people are dishonest and want to be politically correct despite the obvious
I don't know why people feel the need to be politically correct on topics like this. Averages are averages, physically or mentally. The fastest man under 100 meters is Chinese, and the 3 highest IQs under 18 years old are black kids...these bell curves overlap most people are in between. Just because you're black doesn't mean you're gonna be a start athlete and just because you're white or Asian sure as hell doesn't make you a genius lol. Most people in the world are average or below at everything lol.
@@kingblm People don't have issues when people say some races are more athletic on average, than others. But when it comes to IQ, people become sensitive because they feel that a person's humanity is lessened if you say they are inferior intellectually. I think it has to do with the history of racism and slavery. One of the justifications for slavery was that other races were inferior, and the reason they were seen as inferior was because they were less intelligent. So nowadays people want to ignore the fact that some races are not as smart as others on average because of the racism that used to come with it in the past
@@kingblm Yeah one of the highest jumpers in the world is a man from Sweden.
@@kingblm Thanks for your insight because you are a great analyst of the situation.
Brandon you deserve a gold medal
.
I think a study that rank orders racial groups by intelligence, temperment and etc would be a good thing. Currently there's a lot of resentment towards Asians and Whites that's based on the notion that outcome-differences are due to racism. This should not be the default belief. The hypothesis that racial disparities in outcome are caused by genetic and/or cultural differences should be thoroughly explored. The results should be widely known. The results should be taught to 5th graders and up so that children aren't left to speculate that blacks are underrepresented in selection and achievement in IB and honors courses soley due to racism. If my middle school-aged children were to inquire at school about the origin of the Easter bunny, they could count on getting a straight answer, but if they asked the teacher which race is smarter, they would likely get criticized or get the runaround.
BTW, There is a study that shows that IQ correlates with the level of education one attempts and succeeds in obtaining. Blacks at the PHD level had a calculated mean IQ that was the same as Whites at the junior college level. This information is astonishing, and should be confirmed through additional studies and then proclaimed to all.
There are different gene pools/ethnic groups inside the white race. A South Spaniard is "white" a South Italian is "white" but they are both heavily influenced by Turkic Semitic genes... A white from the north of europe like a Nordic or Anglo Saxon Germanic is a totally different group, there is no White homogeneous race. There are different groups and different IQs, just like different physical traits, that are obvious. A Hispanic Latino has some European ancestry from Spain but is not a Nordic. Look at the colonies of England and Spain and what they have achieved compared to eachother. There is a clear evidence to IQ difference. Just look at what the different ethnic groups accomplished before getting in contact with each other... There you have the evidence of IQ and races.
In Europe pretty much all countries have IQ of 100, wether its England or Spain or Croatia or Russia.
IQ is mostly hereditary... Nice try at diminishing this....
@Justin Vaughan Studies on identical twins has shown that environmental factors are minimal.....heredity is, by far, the biggest factor.
@@globalpilot76 I don't think you understand these points well enough to argue them..
The authors of the twin studies determined the exact opposite of what you believe - and for a variety of reasons.
Race has nothing to do with differences on IQ tests.. since race doesn't even apply to different groups of our species.
@Super Genius there was a published paper that examined whether there was selective pressures which may explain differences in IQ. There was no significant evidence.
Additionally, heritable =\= genetic
@Super Genius actually, let me know if you don't see the link. CZcams seems to be shadow banning links anymore.
If it does, I can give you the author and title.
@Super Genius Kevin Bird, 'Still no support for hereditarianism.'
Slovenia is very industrialised.
Cope.
In your list l don't see any African countries, why is that soo? I know alot of Africans who are professors in leading universities in America and Europe, there is a guy from Zimbabwe who is an internationally renowned neuro surgeon and tones more who are actuarial scientists. Had to stop watching when other countries were not included, eg Zimbabwe, South Africa, Nigeria, North Korea Iran, Israel. If you are to make comparisons don't make comparisons based on your myopic view of the world.
How do you hold clinicians that knowing allow for these racial biases in their assessments accountable? The testing is subjective in nature and limited to the clinicians perceived social biases when race is involved.
Why do you automatically assume racial bias? The tests have been given to mixed groups and then assessments have been made by people blind to the race and gender of the test taker and the results are the same. More effort has been put into removing any possibility of bias from IQ tests than probably any other test that has ever been given. Then there is the correlation across tests like the ASVAB and SAT and ACT tests. There is no point in denying the validity of the results of properly constructed and administered IQ tests. I make that distinction only to separate clinical IQ tests from those taken as questionnaires on Twitter etc. ABILITY affects a person's life outcomes whether you and your ilk like it or not.
@Daniel Ropierre So you're proposing that we continue lying to cover up the facts in order to prevent some outcome you have in your head?
I propose that we openly talk about all issues, regardless of how difficult they might seem on the first glance.
Every single one of our "gap closing programs" were based on this lie, which is why they all failed miserably.
You can see that today many schools are getting rid of standards of excellence, calling timeliness, learning and hard work signs of White supremacy.
Because of this very lie we are pushing our society towards the "lowest common denominator" instead of lifting up people.
@Daniel Ropierre It's not a matter of being "bad" in general, but about being truthful and objective.
@Daniel Ropierre Which ones specifically and why?
@Super Genius Who said they are?
One of the most informative lecturers on IQ. Just and balanced. Someone needs to send a link to Charles Murray and Sam Harris.
haha niqqah//// nah
The upshot is that IQ varies by racial groups but these differences are conditioned by income, educational attainment, social-economic status, and cognitively stimulating environments.
One might conclude genetics produces a lower IQ offspring from two lower IQ parents which only exasperates the consequences. The result of a low IQ parent is poor life choices, such as out-of-wedlock birth, no father in the home, substance abuse, lack of parental attention, welfare, criminality, lack of positive interaction with the child, and poor nutrition choices. So, is it more correct to say that a parent's genetics determine the child's IQ which is further harmed by the child's lousy environment which is determined by the parent's IQ?
If one low IQ child (twins for instance) is taken and placed in a high IQ parental environment at an early age, how much improvement in IQ is there compared to the twin that stays governed by the low IQ parent?
That is why heritability of IQ is 60 % upwards towards 80 %. Most of the variance in IQ is coming from variance in genetics meaning that environmental factors arent explaining the gap as ppl have predicted.
That said, why should we expect the avg african american to succeed as much as the average white american in the same environments? It seems nonsense and antiscience to think that environment explains everything
I'd never let a black doctor operate on me or treat me not even cut my hair
Why?
@@johncaze757 cuz he thinks black people are inferior
Don't get me wrong I'm half Irish mom born in Ireland and dad Jamaican I mean Africans thick as planks proven 80 IQ Jamaicans are much brighter check out how many different races are in Jamaica German Chinese indian Scottish and more and many did mix and have children my old friend was 1 quarter Chinese mom side she was Jamaican
What a disgusting thought to have!
Well the western World invented the IQ Test as a sort of a selection issue and matter.
The rationale about testing people in examination settings is a bad precedent because not everyone had had the chance to go to school and be exposed to School examinations and testing.
With the passage of time one will see that IQ tests will lose their validity until about the year 2038.
The Universiry of California Schools decided to abolish the requirement back in 2015.
The high School Transcript will now become the only requirement for undergraduate entries.
From about the year 1926 to the 2011s The SAT was the yardstick upon which all other students were judged.
For someone who could not speak the English Language.
This is a challenge that isnt fair for the Verbal and the Math Section out there.
Keep telling yourself that
@@bonergravy It is meant for you as well my pal..
Why dont you tell me about your own Perspective on the issue in 2022.
James facts an they don’t like the truth
@@jamesbedukodjograham5508 you’ve posted a lot on here. Different races excell at different things. If you’re willing to accept that different races have different body types and attributes for various sports, you need to be honest with yourself and accept that the brain has developed differently in races. If you are unable to notice this correlation, then you’re probably not very smart… at best will fully ignorant.
lier lier
Liar*