Building a Glove Box for Air Free Chemistry
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2020
- Can you convert a sand blasting cabinet to an air-free glovebox, using a cylinder of argon and too much tape? We give it a red hot go. Links::: Subreddit: / explosionsandfire
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Music is as usual from the Aphex Twin soundcloud dump, track name is:
- 1 Lmt - Věda a technologie
The day this man discovers silicone sealers/caulking he will be unstoppable.
Teflon tape and epoxy resin
Lol I just posted the same thing. Like $4 a tube and you can lay 1 continuous bead.
The whole video my brain was screaming into its subjective void "fucking get the caulk gun and seal it goddamn it, it's easy and works c'mon tom!!" Of course I can't do any chemistry at all so just keep my bitching on the downlow ;)
Was just gonna say silicone lmao.
I like how you get a glovebox before a simple fumehood.
It's a choice for those who prioritize protecting their reactions over protecting themselves...
@@sealpiercing8476 a sacrifice had to be made...
the sky is natures fume hood
He really just needs to walk down the street on trash day and pick up a cabinet and a vacuum cleaner for that. A cabinet turned on the side with the bottom door removed makes a perfect fume hood. If you leave the bottom door on and add a latch you can even close it up to keep drafts out. An old vacuum cleaner with a funnel on the hose and stiff wire taped to the hose, lets you bend and move it over your reaction instead of having to suck huge volumes of air.
@@excitedbox5705 I mean, not really. You drop an oxidizer or have something that produces chlorine, it'll light it on fire or corrode the vacuum.
my suggestion is to seal it up real good, get that gopro in there, and then make hypergolic rocket fuels :D
Sick paint job as well
What he said
Imagine the confusion, relief, the horror of the paramedics and first responders on scene after his home chemistry shop blows up. Hey, at least it's not another meth lab this time!
@Space Fire In comparison to that other stuff, LOX seems downright comfy to work with.
Hypergolic fuels react with each other and not with oxygen.
Top mechanic tip:
Use water with dish soap in it to check for leaks around seals of your box, also works for checking for holes/broken seals in car tires.
Also, just to reiterate what tonnes of people have been mentioning, a silicone gasket maker from your local automotive shop should also be a decently cheap way to seal cracks that are letting air in/out.
Use an air compressor to test leaks with air first, or even nitrogen, rather than jumping into expensive argon.
Co2 is dirt cheap
@@nikpat6006 it is a lot less inert than N2 though, and air is even cheaper
Your hand should have it's own channel, it has a great personality and it's very expressive, it's a damn fine hand. Sorry I'm not saying you don't have a nice personality, you do, you're great...it's just hard to compete with should a classy hand.
It's getting a bit out of control isn't it haha
So right. I sometimes wonder if the camera hand isn't quietly resentful. Like a benched understudy, never gets the limelight.
I think... this *is* the hand's channel?
@@jamesg1367 Really should try the other hand now and then...
He is just showing off that he still has all his fingers.
Oh nice, now you can work in a pure oxygen atmosphere and not this pitiful 21 % poor people's atomosphere!
oxygen is for pleb people, I am above it now
oxygen is so 2019.
Oh sorry good Sir, I forgot its Australia, of cause this would be a high Ozone Environment with all those UV-Rays over there. how could I think of something this mundane like oxygen...
How to accidentally put your gloved hands inside a bomb 101. Reminder that steel burns vigorously in 100% oxygen
@@jogandsp So does diamond, really anything with hydrocarbons or iron. I'm kind of curious about chromium though....like, what about SS shavings?
Thoughts from a fellow chemistry student with extremely limited experience in air-sensitive chemistry:
1) Use a sealant that is much more flexible than the crappy hot glue. Probably silicone of some sort would be good?
2) Make lots of holes in the tubing that lets the inert gas in so you don't just have one single big stream of gas coming in (I think "redxpen" explained that stuff better than me).
3) Get yourself some delicious nitrogen gas (should be much much cheaper than argon). This way you can do the initial purging with argon (which is much better at getting rid of the oxygen since you can kinda fill it from the bottom). Afterwards, you can use nitrogen gas to keep a slight positive pressure inside the chamber. This way you'll be pretty much guaranteed that no oxygen seeps in after establishing the inert atmosphere, but you'll also save a lot of money (I reckon). Heck, even CO2 could work in some circumstances, although you'll obviously have to make sure that it won't react with anything before you try.
4) Do get yourself a flow-meter, as you suggested.
5) Building an antechamber/airlock could be a good idea, although maybe a bit difficult and time consuming. You could also just make another slightly smaller (closable) opening in the box. This way, if you forgot to put something in there (like a spatula or whatever), you can just crank up the nitrogen/argon stream while opening the lid and slowly putting the thing (e.g. spatula) inside without introducing much oxygen. I've done a little bit of air-sensitive chemistry (just in glassware, not in a glovebox), and keeping the reaction vessel at a positive pressure with nitrogen gas works perfectly fine if I for example need to add an addition funnel to a setup that should be air-free.
6) Don't waste any time trying to make a vacuum with that setup, it's not going to do you any good.
100% Silicone caulk is dirt cheap and should work for sealing. Look for the 'pond' or 'aquarium' safe stuff and it'll be just silicone suspended in acetic acid that evaporates off. Flexible and pretty much inert, so you can use it to seal things up to your heart's content
I can't tell how big the hole is over on the side, but he might be able to 3D something to fit onto that. My thoughts would be a silicone sealed door on inside with a similar mechanism as that on top for ease while using the gloves, and then an adapter to threaded schedule 80 PVC or metal piping. Cap the end with thread tape and a screw-on cap, and you have a pretty simple airlock. If I got the measurements for the hole, I could probably make a model and send it on Discord.
also an anti-static gun is very useful in the glovebox
I know it Smells like vinegar but I'm very certain it's some vinegar smelling silicon compound
9:28
The absolute COMEDIC timing.
"Absolutely pissing out of here" *hose promptly decouples*
Just my two cents from a guy that has to do all his experiments in a sub 0.1 ppm O2 glovebox:
-you can use cheap nitrogen if you don't mind having a glovebox that doesn't go down to the ppm levels of oxygen. The only advantage of argon is that it's heavier, if you pump it in at the bottom your oxygen will float on top and get picked up by the outlet on the top. We have nitrogen boxes for stuff that doesn't require extremely low levels of oxygen, so it can be done
-working with Sodium in a glovebox is a PITA (it's great for an atmosphere check though) as pure sodium sticks to everything like superglue. Might keep that in mind before you get a sticky, really reactive metal on everything... Also, pure Alkalis from a glovebox react a lot more violent with air than the ones covered in oil: sodium is fine, but lab equipment that has traces of potassium or the heavier alks shouldn't be cleaned with water. I just put it in a fume hood and leave it there for a day
-put your light outside the box with a diffuser stuck to the window, you are going to need the extra space inside
-if you want a "real" inert atmosphere you've gotta use a slight overpressure inside the box (we use between 2 and 5mbar positive pressure, if it's lower than 2 you get problems putting your gloves on)
-a bicycle tire repair set is really handy for repairing gloves that have a leak
-more fasteners and silicon glue, we have tried building a DIY glovebox before with every edge sealed (the "airlock" consisted of a pane of acrylic glass that was screwed onto the side panel of the box, the nuts inside were covered with silicon and there was a rubber seal between the hatch and the box), still leaked quite a bit
-as others have already suggested: Use a elephant trunk (siphon, open end inside a container with oil, lower end to box) as the overpressure valve with a ball directly under the end of the pipe in the oil that will seal that pipe when you get a negtive pressure inside the pipe/box. This WILL happen if you have a slight overpressure and try to get your hands out of the box
-commercial boxes use a copper catalyst that gets oxidized by the oxygen/water in the water and regenerated with a Argon/hydrogen mixture. Might be worth a try...
-Antechamber? May work with surprisingly little effort, even a normal seal sandwiched between the metal cylinder and the door will hold a vacuum (the lower the inside pressure of the chamber the higher the force pressing it shut->good antechambers will hold a vacuum for months without problems). Also, use at least 5mm steel plates (bc of the pressure)
-don't underestimate the amount of gas a glovebox needs, we nearly go through a 50l flask of argon per week/box... A proper flush of the system is going to require at least three complete purges down to a few mbar
-a good way to reduce the amount of water inside is to put everything inside a 75°C drying oven for the night before putting it into the box, that reduces the amount of surface moisture
Awesome comment, I just learnt a few new things so thanks.
An interesting start to a glove-box. I have spent most of the last 40 years working in glove-boxes (fairly fancy commercial units, weighing a ton or two, with atmospheric circulators, oxygen scrubbing beds, etc.). One thing you definitely need is an outlet near the top. This will help with purging and pressure regulation. The simplest way is to run a hose (1/2" to 1" ID) into a tall bottle of oil to make a "bubbler". This gives a visual of flow rate, serves as pressure relief (so the box doesn't turn into shrapnel when the argon regulator fails) and prevents back-flow of air. A good connecting spot would be the port on the upper left of the back of the box (with the internal baffle). For hoses, I would recommend high density polyethylene (HDPE). It is not very flexible, but it has low permeability to oxygen and is very inexpensive (use a heat gun for tighter bends, or to straighten out coiled tubing). Place the bubbler well below the box, so that pulling your hands out of the gloves does not draw oil back into the box (huge mess). If you have questions, you can find my e-mail here: members.tm.net/lapointe/index.htm if you dig a little.
i imagine the duct tape seals would make an excellent overpressure failsafe
@@blockstacker5614 You're probably right, but having a compromised glove-box while you're handling pyrophorics is a less than ideal situation.
@@robertlapointe4093 Yeah, was thinking the same thing. Overpressure bubbler would be ideal, I think. Would serve as a flowrate-monitor and a pressure-release simultanously.
Care to share just what you do? Sounds like I’d love your job
@@Calyrekt Research chemist, mostly making and testing organometallic catalysts (both for small molecule synthesis and polymer synthesis). Also a fair bit of continuous reactor engineering. Off the shelf reactors need some tweaking when your feeds are pyrophoric (flammable and/or explosive on contact with air). Lot of fun, except for a few bad bosses (reason I retired a few years ago, but those BBs were fired and now I'm consulting with that company again, even get in some more glove-box time).
Air yellow confirmed ?
My recommendations from having tried to seal in inert atmospheres with irregular DIY stuff:
1) More fasteners on that lid. The stiffness of the lid should be matched to the amount of compression your gasket needs to seal well, and without replacing the whole lid you can make it stiffer by adding more points of support. Going from 2 to 6-12 should be a big improvement and returns are more diminishing after that.
2) Silicone RTV is a great sealant. Go for stretchy stuff that adheres well and don't worry about strength, and use joints that work mechanically before you add the RTV.
Stuff I don't know from experience:
3) Is there some air-sensitive chemical that would work well to scavenge air and moisture? Ideally cheap and easy to handle. Zeolites would do well to get most of the moisture, and they're reusable, but I'm not sure what to do about oxygen. Trying to bring the air/moisture content down with flushing alone is going to use a lot of Ar.
Thanks for the tips!
I've heard about hand warmers being used to scavenge oxygen, so that might work. They're packets if finely divided iron from memory, that heat up reacting with oxygen, so I think they could do the job well
RTV can be a pain in the ass if you ever want to take the top off. Deep vacuum apparatus works fine with silicone gasket material and it easy to dismantle if you need to
@@ExtractionsAndIre iirc you made some of that super fine iron from iron oxalate that immediately oxidised in air, so you can in theory just take that as your dessicant for oxygen, as long as you keep it in heat resistant container you can hermetically close before letting the air back in
@@ExtractionsAndIre Also, they use soapy water to detect leaks in pipes carrying gasses. Maybe make some soap solution and spray some around corners to see where the bubbles form so you know what need sealing.
@@ExtractionsAndIre Ah, you've jogged my memory. One standard trick for getting very pure inert gases on demand in the semiconductor industry is to flow it through a can of finely divided copper at high temperature. It's reusable (for them) in that you just purge it with some ammonia or hydrogen when it's full.
Finely divided iron might be good because it's clearly not completely self-passivating at room temperature, and it's definitely cheap. Maybe some chlorides as a catalyst. Dunk some steel wool in NaCl solution, dry it off and throw it into the glove box? Little fan to blow atmosphere over it?
Apparently you can get little packets of oxygen scavenger. They're cheap, but hardly available in small quantities.
You may want to make sure that it's relatively easy to unplug that hole on the bottom. I can totally foresee some point where you're going to want to remove a delightful cocktail of solution and glass shards from it, and you'll want the process of draining the box as painless as possible. Also, camera tripod mount screws are 1/4" machine screws, so it's pretty easy to construct special-purpose mounts. A mount stuck on a block of wood is a really great way to keep a camera steady for low-angle work like this.
Yeah I agree here. That's why I avoided just welding over every hole, it'll be useful to have access ports or cleaning and draining holes I think
@@ExtractionsAndIre Plus, I don't know if you are looking to work with explosives in the glovebox. If you are, I reckon you'd want the container to relieve pressure easily in case of an incident. I found this paper with a cursory google search: core.ac.uk/download/pdf/208354823.pdf
It could be really good if someone more knowledgable about gloveboxes and/or explosive handling weighed in on this.
Also, steel is magnetic last I checked. Magnetic camera mounts will be your friend.
They make plugs for testing plumbing and such that look like fancy wine bottle corks - they have a lever (or wing nut) on the top and if you flip the lever over, it squeezes the rubber so that it expands out the sides and makes a tight seal. Not sure how well it will do on sheet metal, but it's a damn sight better than duct tape.
CLOSE THE CYLINDER, not just the regulator.
Love ya content m8 it's always sweet to falls sleep to your voice
The last time I was this early, the earth had an anoxic atmosphere.
Too bad it got, all rusty than
Wait... But he wouldn't need the box if he had an anoxic atmosphere
@@janronschke7525 Yeah, sounds like a terrible idea. Probably also the reason nobody comes visit us.
I want to breathe pure ClF3
the forbidden air tastes the sweetest
@@ExtractionsAndIre There were some idiots round here that broke into a chemical storage place to steal laughing gas but took the nitrogen dioxide instead. They both died.
you can do that but only once
@@DaftFader til I probably would've died if I ever tried to steal laughing gas cause I thought "isn't nitrogen dioxide laughing gas" and ho boy no it's not
@@Enderbro3300 ye it's a scarily easy mistake to make tbh. It's one way to stop laughing fast lol.
I always see do-it-yourself Builds on CZcams that are done so impeccably and makes me not only jealous but pretty ashamed of my failure to reach that level of ability, this late int my life 😕 but then I watch a video like this... boy does seeing all that tape provide validation
Most thorough tap/knock test ive ever seen, love the vids tom cant wait to see what all you get into with it
I love how hyped you are for this. A true chemist! And I'd love to give some advice but I'm so unqualified it's funny haha
Great idea and thanks for giving me an excuse to get a sand blaster!
A pretty basic suggestion - consider the corrosion you'll get from HCl at some point. I'd try to keep all of the screw threads on the outside, and coat any exposed metal on the inside (silicone caulk?)
Obviously tempered glass would be better than acrylic for clarity and durability, but spendy.
I'd keep coming up with ideas to make it better (instead of using it), but you get more done because it doesn't have to be perfect - just good enough.
Good thinking about the corrosion... Yeah I wonder how well it will hold up to any acid fumes. Very badly I suppose
Instead of foam, you could use surgical tubing. The area around the hinge is not as important after you install a purge vent at the top. Great videos
Star wars sand quotes and Extractions&Ire?
This is where the fun begins
I've seen those argon cylinders go orbital before, fuckin terrifying. Literal missiles.
I recommend this type of very low pressure regulator - Equilibar LPR2 no bleed. Mount this on your box, downstream of the tank regulator. This is all the pressure you need, far lower than your tank regulator can provide stably. I've used these for years to keep high altitude plastic balloon film test boxes pressurized to ~1000Pa, which probably is about what you want anyway.
I recommend 1/4" OD tubing, polyethylene, both for your tank regulator to box regulator, and for the box reg to the box. Use "push to connect" fittings- they will save your sanity.
Lithium metal reacts with nitrogen gas too btw
I think you could use silicone instead of hot glue, it should seal pretty well, also, shouldn't you vacuum-purge the chamber before so you don't waste that much argon while purging?
Try vacuum that "glove box" lol :D It would probably implode, and thats only if it would really be airtight sealed.
Yes please try vacuum purge, be sure to live stream it.
@@marchans-christianpiech3297 Almost guaranteed the gloves will leak massively, preventing the pressure to drop much.
Getting one step closer to finally work with uranium, and creating the Greatest Explosion
That's the dream
So cool can't wait to see what crazy shit ya get up to with these new goodies!
If you wanted to build an airlock, you might be able to do that with two pieces of tupperware (possibly best the four sided ones that seal each side with a clasp) you glue to the wall, one on the inside and one on the outside, their bottoms removed. And of course a paint job!
Awwwww yeah!
A new video.
Thanks mate, I always look forward to seeing the newest project you've gotten yourself up to.
A vacuum line would be cool.
You could work with phosgene or ketene without dying...
You could also put a HEPA filter on the end of the vacuum line, reverse the flow, and do some experiments on live bacteria & fungi.
Since your box is so small (that's what he said), producing enough CO2 to maintain an inert atmosphere would be rather trivial.
I'll bet it's a lot less expensive than a tank of argon too.
As a woodworker from South Carolina in the US, I feel your humidity pain my friend.
Always likes the video before watching it, love the content.
Make it crazy good! I’d love to see you assemble a really great controlled-atmosphere box :3
This channels comment section has one of the best combos of entertaining as well as informative comments, that I've ever seen. I love it!
Engineer here:
- flow meter!
- vacuum line (so you can purge better with less argon)
- better bottom, maybe a bit of sheet metal or something
- fill in that dead space in the bottom
- proper gasket material (you could use silicone, RTV, weather stripping, butyl tape, or cut a solid one out of a big rubber sheet), but check chemical compatability with what you want to run
- less obnoxious gloves with some more disposable gloves covering them
A couple of modification that i would make:
1. Change the acrylic for Glass, If you have the money to spare, Borosilicate glass, but a cheap, sacrificial, glass pane that you totally "borrowed" from a skip would work too. also, remove the hinges from the lid and just use additional latches to hold the lid down, less strain on the lid that way.
2. Use Silicone sealant wherever there is a join/gap/bolt. this will make it air tight and it wont be as reactive with solvent vapors as the Foam or the Gaffer Tape will be. (seriously, do not use strong solvents in there until you have replaced the tape with something or the glue will just melt and give way) also cover any exposed metal on the inside with Silicone or they will react with any vapors produced.
3. Add an expansion chamber to the device, they are usually used in water systems to prevent water hammer effects, but they will work just fine for Air too. this will stop the box "breathing" each time you put your gloves in and out. you can make a pretty cheap one just using a couple of balloons but then you may have a problem with corrosion and solvents again.
4. In the same vein as the expansion chamber, add an exhaust port that can go into a water/solvent trap. this way if there is a buildup of pressure for some reason or you need to do something that has a lot of vapours, it has a place to go (eg. Heating a reaction, you dont want to heat an enclosed system)
5. Add an "Aux Air" port. this can be used for vacuum or any gases that you need to introduce to a reaction (chlorine generator for example) this way you wont need to have a huge setup inside the box.
6. Switch the gloves out for better fitting, thinner ones. you only need chemical resistance in there and it will give you better dexterity when you are using it.
7. Add a light inside the box. every time you put your head over the top you change teh natural light and it will get frustrating.
8. Finally, and you have already mentioned this in the vid, make an airlock. just a smaller chamber that will use up less argon to cycle than removing the lid from the whole box. just make sure its large enough for anything you might want to add (thermo-probes, additional beakers/flasks etc)
I can honestly say I would've never guessed "Aussie goes elbow-deep on a box to make 'er wheeze" was something I'd end up watching on CZcams, or that it would star this dudee.
The starting comment on how annoying the air is really resonates with me as an organic synthesis undergrad researcher living in Florida, where the humidity is almost always above 80%.
Others have given good advice. I can add a little as a geochemist who works in a soft vinyl box (which is cheaper in a lab set-up than the hard shells, if you can handle a couple PPM of O2). I agree that N2 is really the better option for something home made like this. Our boxes use an N2/H2 gas mixture (~4% H2) and have palladium catalysts to eliminate O2 that gets in through the transfer chamber. That set-up involves a bit more gas regulation, catalysts, and not everything loves H2, so it is probably not great here, but to scrub residual O2, we use a bubbler with pyrogallol and KOH in it. Something like that may be useful? I recommend some molecular sieves for drying, they are rechargeable and not too costly. Also mason jars, You can store your air sensitive things in mason jars or other canning jars inside the chamber if you have to briefly vent and they will probably be okay.
If anyone wants to make a cheap, disposable glovebox you can use a clear tote and silicone to seal everything. Duct tape can seal around the cutout for the door really well, kind of like how Tom sealed the holes in this video. I built one like this and it works great. I use it to deal with P2O5, lithium, sodium, potassium, cesium and NaK and it all looks just as good coming out as it did going in. I think I have maybe $30 in the build? The most expensive part was when I bought the gloves, which is up to personal preference, besides the tote itself. I also put a 1 way valve on it in case something happens and gas is produced. That allows it to vent without sucking air back in. It also let's you purge the air without having the door open, saving on argon, nitrogen or whatever you need to use. If I am doing something that may heat up or catch fire I just put a couple of metal cookie sheets in the bottom and do everything on top of those. Using a few of them provides layers of protection as opposed to just 1 layer that can heat up and burn through the plastic. It all works great, especially in a pinch and for how cheap and easy it was to build. I'll put it this way, it works well enough for me to clean up group 1 metals, NaK and P2O5 and lets me rebottle it all and keep it clean and pretty for reselling it.
A simple way you could make an airlock out of that hole on the right side that you covered with tape and acrylic; get some PVC pipe about the same diameter as that hole, attach a threaded fitting and threaded end cap to both ends, seal the gap around the pipe with silicon. Open the outside cap to put stuff in, close it, open the inside cap and you have your airlock. If you want to take it a step further, if all your PVC is high pressure rated, you could attach a high pressure valve to the outside end cap and vacuum purge the airlock after putting things in it.
Plenty of great suggestions on improving the box already by others so I won't address that... But I have one for your camera. Please keep it still! I don't get motion sick but, man, your video pretty much did it for me. Otherwise, great video. Loved it.
If you didn't want to spend money on argon, you could probably get a decently inert atmosphere by (a) burning a candle or a piece of charcoal or something in the closed box until it ran out of oxygen and went out, and (b) having anhydrous calcium chloride or another drying agent in the box to suck up the water vapor from the air.
You can always amd a dehydrated epsom salt and a hand warmer or something to keep it dry and oxygen free, keep the price low and worry less about the seal and the argon
About Foams: There are so-called "open-cell" and "closed cell" foams. In open cell foam, the bubbles in the material are connected with each other through small holes, meaning gas can flow throughout the entire foam, making it mostly useless as a seal. Ideally dont use any foam at all. Silicone rubber and similar stuff is a much better option.
For filming on a similar level to where your work area would be in the box. Considered maybe a section of clear perspex glued to one of the walls? Maybe run some tests/fit ups not involving your box first before cutting large holes into it.
That way if your camera is outside the box, it is isolated from corrosion/fire/burning etc
you can put a cardboard box around the camera to keep the light out, then you have no glare from the perspex
I would recommend a pressure relief valve and putting one arm in at a time. A diy glove box is quite the project and I look forward to seeing the improvements you make.
1) Transfer hatch/Air lock, whatever you want to call it.
2) adjustable mount, be it magnetic or a flexible stand, for a camera, as well as a hole you can wire up and then seal with foam and silicone or whatever around the cables, so you don't have to run out of battery. Wrapping the cables in Teflon tape to protect the cables might be a good idea, so you don't have them degrade over time, then cause a spark that lights anything on fire or just gives you a nasty shock when making contact with the metal frame.
I think this is a good idea. You might want to leave that big port on the right covered loosely with tape, so that in the event of some sudden pressure increase the tape will blow off and vent the box.
You could probably get away with much cheaper nitrogen for a lot of experiments.
Gasses form solutions when mixed. When you mix salt and water, initially the salt falls to the bottom, but once dissolved, the salt is evenly distributed in solution. Gasses are the same - once mixed, heavier gasses don't settle out. The atmosphere isn't a multi-layered cocktail of pure gasses, for example.
I've actually used one of these exact models of sand blaster before, and yes, those gloves are very good at restricting some finer movements! xD
It's like watching a man rediscover advanced chemistry after the world's gone to shit.
I love these projects:)
Hey, the sandblasting box likely won't hold up to a perfect vacuum, but one place I worked used to evacuate as much air as possible before back filling with argon. I don't know how sensitive your future chemistry will be, but it worked great on the very reactive titanium that was welded and heat treated in similar vacuum chambers. Albeit, the heat treat furnaces did not have gloves that extended into the oven, just the welding tanks.
I used to maintain the freon degreaser where I worked years ago, and the gas was heavier than the air, and it kept the air out very well without a lid. I suspect argon would do the same, but the lid will help alot in keeping the air out, once it is out. But, until it is out, you need to let it bleed out as the argon enters the box, otherwise the box gets over pressurized.
Use the candle on a wire trick to show the argon is in the box, then you can see the pressure does not need to be very high to maintain the level, and you will save gas.
A better option for sealing the box would be to use Canopy Tape.
Canopy tape can be purchased from any place that installs truck canopies. You could likely buy different widths of tape or just cut it yourself.
A bonus would be that you could unscrew the bottom, canopy tape over the screw holes, and reassemble the box.
Canopy tape is a long lived dense foam tape meant for life surviving the elements and keeping water out of truck canopies. It comes with adhesive on one side.
Keep it in mind!
A recommendation from my undergrad days for a cheap H2O/O2 sensor, cut a hole or otherwise break the vaccum on an old incandescent light bulb (the kind with a tungsten wire) and put a power strip in the box (power might be helpful for other reasons, like keeping your camera charged). How long the bulb lasts gives you a pretty good idea of how much O2 is around, in our glovebox we could usually keep it going for a few days, sometimes a week. My guess is you'll get a few hours of light out of it, but it might help you test seals and such.
Its like the algorithm knows i had a nice glovebox accident yesturday.
I'm tormenting you
What happened?
@@theSILKROAD210 i dropped it
Things splashed
Shoes got damaged
Its almost like haiku
@@alphadog6970 i can only imagine how much of a pain in the butt the clean up would be. What were you working with?
Get a better seal on the lid so you can have some real fun. Also, clean up the lid to make it easier to view through. Also absolutely drop the hot glue for silicone. The hole behind the cover should be easy to fix if you grind off whatever they're using to rivet it or any pressure is gonna pop that tape. Also the hole in the bottom.
If you get soapy water you can easily check where there are leaks. You can also do that with another gas which isn't that expensive then. If you are able to make it almost fully sealed you could also attach a vacuum pump to it so you can fill / evacuate the chamber to get it really free of air
I think you could lay a ballon in the box and fill it with Argon until you can see that the ballon is getting a bit smaller. Then you can turn of the gas flow, if the ballon is getting bigger after this it isnt 100% sealed and if it stays for some minutes , you know how good it stays in there.
Good video 👍👍😀👍❤️ I love seeing your content
In the progress tree of the chemistry game, jumped right past a proper fume hood and went straight to a glove box.
P.S. The hardware store probably carries rolls of weather stripping. It's self-adhesive foam tape made specifically for sealing doors and windows and crap.
I try to skip things in the progress trees in games everytime so this checks out
I raccomend to add an air-lock because with your set up you are just increasing the pressure of the glove box and NOT removing the air (or at best you are replacing it very slowly)!
With an air lock, the ones used for fermentig, you'll always have atmospheric presure inside the box but there will be a way for the air to exit, I'll not racomend using water for the air lock as it can leak some humidity in so use something like petrol oil or something like that....
Another way to do it is to employ a vacoom pump to evacuate the chamber at first, flush it with argon and than repeat a couple of times to get the desire "interness"
Hope the tips turned out to be usefull, you are doing a grat job!
Some suggestions: please add a pressure relief valve in the event of an overpressure incident. Consider also a solid replaceable interior floor--you know something will drop or drip through the grate to where you can't reach. You could try to use a flexible plastic sleeve zip tied as airlock on that hole on the side, it *might* work for occasional transfers. A container of desiccant and a constant low flow of N2 would be cheaper than Ar as others have said; that way you can save your expensive Ar for keeping narrower containers anoxic.
Fill a wash bottle with soapy water and spray it around any seals, if you see bubbles forming you’ve got a leak.
As others have mentioned silicon RTV is a great sealant frequently used in automotive applications so you should be able to find it pretty easily at any auto shop, you can use the RTV to seal up cracks and to make a sealing surface on the lid as it dries into a soft stretchy rubber.
Getting a flow meter is a great idea, just make sure it’s calibrated/designed for argon otherwise it won’t be accurate.
You’ll want the argon to fill from the bottom slowly and evenly, a small tube with lots of holes and something very porous on top, scotch brite or a open cell foam.
Upgrades - a GoPro (or two) - you can wirelessly stream and save, plus you could power them by usb so you keep box opening to a minimum
An armchair idea: maybe add a pressure regulator to the box, then 1. the air doesn't need to get purged out all the leaks, but has a nice exit point at the regulator, and 2. when the cabinet is filled and slightly pressurized, argon will leak out instead of air leaking in, so the leakiness only determines argon usage and not argon purity in the box
The drain on the bottom you could weld a nut on to. That way you can seal it with a bolt. I'm not sure if it would work but maybe a pressure gauge at the top of the box could be used to monitor the flow rate. And allow you to guarantee that you had a positive atmosphere in the box.
BTW, if anyone really really want to do some small scale air free stuff and can't afford/can't make a decent glove box there's also "glove bag" containment chambers which are basically just sealable LDPE bags with gloves inside that you can inflate with an inert gas. The downside is the gloves suck major ass and they're wonky to work with because you have to load all your materials into a deflated bag. Also since it's plastic they can't really handle heat or non-polar solvent spills. I know this eliminates a lot of fun things but maybe it will be useful for some experiments? You can get one for around $20 USD on Amazon.
Another tip is that you can buy small argon spray cans meant for keeping wine fresh after opening for ~$15 USD on Amazon. They only contain around 12 grams of argon which is I think around 7 liters of gas, making them pretty expensive for filling a glove box but is probably more than enough to de-air small reaction vessels/the headspace of reagent containers for a few experiments. Just make sure you get the ones that say they contain pure argon because some companies sell nitrogen instead which isn't as good.
awesome build
how do I personal msg you
It may be a good idea to learn how to weld. This will save you a lot of time and money in the future.
You could utilise the large hole you put the acrylic over to add a fume extraction system so you can convert it into a janky fume hood with only a few bolts.
Then the top will be toast in no time, tbh it will be the first thing that needs replacing.
What you really need is a sick paint job
I would suggest using silicone for seals, especially where you can clamp two flat surfaces together. May also look into making that gap around the lid much smaller using tape, even to a point of interference fit seal.
I have used a sandblaster very similar to this in the dental laboratory. We invest wax cast in plaster and then boil out wax and use pmma in a play dough state to push in the mood and press under hydraulic press and then cook in controles water baths until complete curing of the denture acrylic resin. Anyways after the polymer is hard and an acrylic we will use a sand blaster that has walnut shells in it to clean off excess plaster / gypsum stone and flashing. This was how we did it in my old lab but now days we just used stone and plaster remover containing formaldehyde inside of an ultrasonic. Just throw the dentures in the intra sonic bath with the stone removing solution for 2-5 min and all of the stone left on cast is gone. Very satisfying to see it go from rough and have plaster stuck on the resin to see it just fall off and become smooth and easy for finishing on the motor.
Push in the mold*
Also in the fabrication of metal frame works like a metal support in the mouth for teeth. Called rpd. Removable partial denture. Same thing investing wax in plaster and then baking out wax and using a metal casting machine to cast chromium cobalt( very cool shiny metal and very resistant bc we use it in the mouth. ) anyways they metal after broke out of plaster with have plaster stuck all over it so you sand blast it in a sand blaster but instead of crushedwalnut shells like for the denture it’s very fine silica sand that will get rid of plaster and not the metal. Very interesting. But hey I love your videos I would love to be able to do more chemistry. I love that I get to use some cool polymers in my field tho. Very candy pink denture acrylic that is strong and gets so shiny and safe for the mouth it’s cool. I also have got the opportunity to use their cad software and print dental baseplates. Very cool resin that the 3D print uses to make mouth accurate parts. I don’t have my own 3D print so I absolutely love doing work with the 3D print at work. The resin is very scary tho in its uncured state. Just as the pmma. Both can cause cancer and the 3D can cause gene problems and makel you infertal. Liver damage. It’s pretty scary. I’m glad I’m into chemistry so I look up the safety data sheets in these chemicals I use and understand what can happen and how to protect my self. Also if people in this industry don’t use a lot of protect. Not like I do. I wear ov respirator and goggles and blue nitrile gloves. I’m paranoid about monomer in my eyes or the resin on my skin and eyes. Anyways sorry for long comment just went in a rant.
Btw I don’t own a lab I just work in a dental lab as a dental lab technician.
Definitely needs more flames though.
Maybe a couple skull and crossbones? Yeah that'd be pretty sick.
Back at the organic lab in college we used a nitrogen cylinder, and filled everything without using fume hood or any kind of glove box. We made gringnard compounds, and they were bloody nice. I love those shits.
Cut a window in the back or left side panel and put a piece of acrylic as a window to shoot through. Use the same peel offs as the top to refresh when it gets a mess.
This guys Hobbies are grrreat.
You can check for air leaks by pressurizing the cabinet with an air compressor or even a hair dryer, then use a spray bottle full of water with a few drops of dish washing detergent. Any air leaks will cause the soapy water to make bubbles. Cork would make a much better gasket for the glass unless you'll be experimenting with a substance that attacks organic material.
Paint the inside a neutral colour like white, grey or black.
it'll improve the quality filming inside, is easier on the eyes than red and won't distort the colour of the chemical you're working with.
As you have a vacuum pump you could make a connexion to evacuate it, also i work with Argon glove boxes because N2 could maybe interfer with my chemistry, however if you just need dry and water free atmosphere i suggest to go for N2, cylinders are much cheaper and as you use an overpressure you can achiever inert atmosphere by flushing the GB with N2(even better if you can cycle it vacuum-N2) it would still be much cheaper
My two cents: Get a bigger tile, preferably one that barely fits. You need a bigger work space in there!
(And maybe fill up the lower part, under the grill, with something like clean gravel, to reduce the volume of the box. Can't tell if that would reduce argon use much.)
Cool stuff, anxious in more than one way to see your experiments in the future!
JB weld and gasket maker is what I would have used for this. I would also add an air lock. I would also add a pressure/ vacuum gauge to monitor the environment.
Idea I came up with is to get a vacuum pump and a setup where you can have your gas of choice, the pump, or closed. You also could use one of those holes for something to measure pressure.
You don't need the chamber to be pressurized, and some sort of diffusion mechanism like a tube stuffed with stainless wool with holes drilled every few cm would get the gas in the box more evenly. This is used for "purging" in welding to protect parts from oxidation. The flow rates for the argon are generally pretty low or even off once the enclosure is filled, and the enclosures also don't have to be perfectly sealed but the difference is that purged sections don't generally have movement of gloves and objects inside and welding procedures are usually just a few minutes long vs the hours long that a chemical reaction might take..
I'd suggest that you seal any gaps and openings with a silicone, which is also more likely to be resistant to the inevitable chemical spills and I'd recommend a stainless steel drain valve on the bottomvs plugging up that hole so that you can wash out and drain the enclosure after your inevitable chemical spills 😁.. I'd also suggest some cheap ceramic tiles from the home improvement store to completely cover up the metal grate and provide you a stable work surface so you don't drop things through the grate and have to take the whole thing apart to get something out of the bottom..
First things first you need a trio of ball valves mounted to bulkhead fittings, one for the argon, one to vent to atmosphere, and one for vacuum. Next you need a simple airlock. After that you need a second air lock style adaptation for the camera and to put it behind some glass because it'd be less reactive than acrylic. Need to also ditch the hot glue on the inside of the bottom joint and weld a proper bottom on there, just a thin piece that comes about a half inch to an inch up the sides so that you have a good seal.
That upper right hole with the acrylic sheed looks like a pretty good point to add at least a small airlock when you inevitably forget something.
Also try not to get the gloves in contact with stuff like the mineral oil too often. I doubt the rubber will like that over the long term. XXL disposable gloves usually work quite well as an additional layer of clumsieness. Alternatively wipe them with some Ethanol once you're done.
A vacuum pump for better purging sounds nice but I have my doubts that the top acrylic sheet would hold up to the pressure difference.
A cheap improvement you might consider is to use silicone sealant for the places we're two sheets meet like the acrylic you put on the side
Duuuude ! Silicon seals !
Used to "seal" my canteen, it was the only one floating around when barracks were flooded ! XD
That what i thought of
Star Wars reference slipped in there. Good man 👍🏻
Recommendations
Use RTV silicone to seal up those seams
Mount your inlet tube high, so if your hose falls loose you won’t loose gas.
I would suggest adding a one-way exhaust valve to the box, rather than relying on leakage through the gaps to purge the box. Then maybe replacing the gloves with some that allow for finer control and easier manipulation of small parts.
I suspect every single fastener will leak a fair bit - sand around the fastener (to give some mechanical adhesion surface), clean it with a solvent, and cover the fastener and circumference with sealant - epoxy or silicone. Add a flow meter to your gas source and to the chamber to get an idea of how much gas is leaking. Once you've got it really sealed up well, a very low pressure relief valve would be a good idea.
Hey man, hope I'm not late for the party. My experience from working with physicists (I'm a chemist working in a physics work group) is that you can improve the fittings by using copper plates instead of foam. It's standard when working at pressures of around 10^(-10) mbar, so they might do a good job. Copper has the additional benefit of not leaking out any solvents. From the physicists, I also learned that you can just use soap water to check for leaks. That works hilariously well.
Regarding the inert gas, you might wanna consider if you don't want to buy a bottle of nitrogen as well. Most chemicals requiring protective atmosphere do just fine with pure and dry N2 and that might save you some money in the long run. You can pass the gas through CaCl2 if you want it nice and dry.
Hope I could give you some valuable input, don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions. Cheers from Germany mate, love your videos!
I foresee a replacement pair of gloves being purchased within three uses of the box.
I feel screaming obvious solutions to engineering issues is part of the E&F fan experience
I have plenty of ideas since I also have experienced the frustration of sealing a cabinet hermetically.
Yay! I love this guys vids