Can Your Frame Fit a Longer Dropper? - Getting experiMENTAL With Dropper Post Insertion Lengths
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- čas přidán 27. 02. 2023
- People often ask if a certain frame will fit a certain length dropper. This video is my answer to that question. There are so many variables to consider, and today we get experiMENTAL to see what goes into answering this question. What size dropper do you run, and do you have room to run more? Would you even want to?
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OneUp consistently gets me the greatest amount of drop possible. I was able to get 180mm of drop on my hardtail (I am at the tall end of the frame sizing) and that has been a major factor in how well that bike works in hard terrain.
I am hoping to see if I can replace my 150 mm SDG on my Santa Cruz Bronson with 170 mm one up! We will see!
Yeah when I was researching one up is the most compact by a decent margin. I was able to use the 210mm, shimmed to 190mm, when any other brand would have been 170mm. Not only is the collar shorter but the saddle area sits so much lower too.
I’ve got one up droppers on all 3 of my bikes, all 210. Great posts!
Yeah, I have a long pipedream sirius s5 which is their medium frame, I cocked up my dropper measurement and bought a 150 when I could have run 180.
The one ups can be shimmed down in 10mm increments too if you have the insertion room for a longer post but not the inside leg!
Top work.
There's The ONE UP BROTHER.........🤝🏾🇺🇸💪🏾👍🏾
Sweet Banshee! Can I fit a 200mm dropper? HAHA. Great instructive video Steve.
Banshee makes some really fun bikes.
Great video!
Also worth mentioning that running shorter cranks means raising your saddle (which could open the options for a longer dropper)
Exactly.
OneUp has got it going on when it comes to insertion depth and stack height. PNW Loam isn't too bad either for a couple of budget friendly droppers.
There are lots of great budget friendly droppers these days, it's a great time to buy a dropper.
Thanks. Clearest explanation of dropper sizing I've found so far. Frame designers could do a lot more to allow greater insertion depth. High bottom brackets lift the whole riding position. To make safe foot touchdown impossible from the saddle. Even at full drop. It's potentially lethal!
Depending on the frame design, sometimes running a narrower seatpost with a shim adapter can get you more insertion depth.
Great breakdown and food for thought. !
That’s great information and a good way to demonstrate it.
Great overview and explaination. Definitely something to consider when getting a new frame
This video had a lot of very interesting and good information.
I recently bought a new OneUp dropper for my Santa Cruz Chameleon.
Despite measuring everything I ended up with with a saddle height that was just a little bit over the optimal height, which was a bummer. But I was running 175mm cranks and i switched them out with a pair of 170mm cranks which actually gave the perfect fit. This is just one more thing to consider when choosing the right dropper.
Keep up the good work!
Everyone shopping droppers needs to watch this. Nice one Steve!
Thanks, I agree. My title isn't click-baity enough to get the people to watch it who need it the most.
great video spotlighting the pain of droppers.
A little knowledge goes a long way here. O still think droppers are the greatest invention to MTB in the past 15 years. But framebuilders could do a lot better to design frames to be more compatible with droppers.
Great demonstration. Just went through this on a new bike and the seat tube is so high I can only run a 125. I think it'll be fine for the intended trails, but of course I'd love more.
Seat tube length/max insertion is next to reach number for me when it comes to choosing the right Geo
I run oneups 240mm dropper on my nukeproof mega xxl, the dropper is all the way down aswell!
The 34.9 OneUp V2.1 actually sits in the frame about 10mm further. It's essentially the same stanchion, but the clamp/thread mechanism is different.
As a tall rider (6’6”), OneUp has been my go to. I’m running the 240mm dropper on a XXL Santa Cruz Megatower. I haven’t confirmed yet, but it looks like it might also fit my XL Trek Roscoe (may have to shim to 230 or 220).
I have done similar to fit a 210mm dropper where I’d be using a 170mm using OneUp with a low stack saddle e.g SQLabs, NukeProof Horizon Enduro/Sam Hill will give you an extra half inch along with 155mm crankset which will elevate me and give me more stability on the downs with maximum saddle clearance.
You are truly what these companies need in product design. Saddle design and dropper post design details that are completely missing in this industry for something that is very relevant. Thanks Steve!
Thanks! I'd love to be more involved in bike and component design, I live it.
@@hardtailparty unfortunately many of these bigger companies just use people that are not former mechanics and avid mountain bikers.
I would think the reason they don't lower the saddle rails is because the saddle would bottom out when it flexes under normal riding. I was surprised at how much my WTB Pure saddle flexed when I was running it as I had to find a lower front bolt for my Magura Vyron v2 post so the head of the bolt wouldn't rip and puncture the saddle as it flexed.... Just my opinion of course. Nice video on how to figure for ourselves what max dropper will fit!
That could very well be the case.
Shorter cranks can give you some extra height, and also thicker pedals. There are a few lower stack saddles out there, but there is a bit of sacrific in terms of padding, and comfort, obviously
Excellent video! One additional point is that insertion length also increases with the drop length, so even if you have 20 cm on 150 cm slammed in, you can't go up to 170cm since 170cm has longer insertion length than 150. So best to try on if possible, before buying!
Excellent point! Sometimes it depends on the brand too. A few brands' 175mm droppers have the same insertion as their 200mm droppers.
the lowest overall stack height I've been able to find so far is a OneUp dropper with a Fizik Gravita Alpaca saddle. Between that inverted OneUp head, and the super thin overall profile of the Fizik, I got an extra 15mm be going with that combo!
OneUp all the way man. I'm able to run 150mm drop on my XC rig. Can't pull that off with other brands.
Some saddles flex enough to bottom out on the seatpost head, there's not a big margin to move the rails lower.
That's crazy! Just from pedalling, or from people landing a jump/drop on their seat?
@@hardtailparty I have a Selle Italia Slr Superflow that flexes enough with me just seated,on some compressions it sometimes touch the seatpost head bolts.
Low stack saddles like SQ Lab or others with the same profile will behave similar.
Hard to beat the OneUp for max dropper length per insertion length. The Wolf Tooth Resolve is interesting in this respect as well, looks very similar to what OneUp is going for.
I went through a similar thing with my Scott genius(Large) trying to get just the right fit(the joy of being 5'10") i ended up putting the X-fusion post in and running 170mm cranks, I even toyed with the idea of reaming some of the seat tube off but that's a bit too far. Dont forget pedal thickness ;)
I wish I could get a 27.2 dropper for my Kona Unit that's longer. I currently have a PNW Pine with 110mm travel. I'd love something 150mm or longer. Ideally 200mm.
Nice seeing another spitty. Never see them on the trails. I did a hack by fitting a 30.9 dropper with shim to get a little bit more insertion in that frame.
This v3.2 uses a 30.9 dropper. Not sure why they made the seat tube smaller. Maybe an error? Maybe it fits this bigger shock better?
Great one Steve - and it is super topical for me that you used a Banshee in this demonstration. I was thinking recently that a Titan would be an awesome bike for me, until I realized that it would limit my dropper length, even with the one-up! I've gotten very accustomed to running a 210 drop, and there is no way I could go back!
I know what you mean. Having 200mm drop is spoiling me
I love your reviews, have you ever considered throwing in a full suspension bike review into the mix just for fun?
I own a few full suspensions but I choose not to review them on this channel, sorry.
@@hardtailparty I understand, it's not really what the channel is all about. You've both found an underserved niche and an area you are passionate about. Killer combo!
Great timely video! I recently picked up a 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Pedalhead frame. It’s a size 4, so I have more insertion depth… but the seat tube does start bending about 100mm below the top tube gusset. Right now I’m trying to figure out if I need to go 170mm, or if a 200mm dropper will work 😅
Time to start measuring. Congrats on a great frame!
OneUp is my favorite dropper full stop. It's the only dropper that's been completely trouble free and has the most adjustability with the shortest stack height and insertion depth.
I'm glad to hear it's been reliable for you. I've had issues with a few of them, including this one, but I love the short stack height.
Good info! It would have been interesting to see what the manufacturers advertised insertion depth compares to your measurements.
That's a great idea, in handy thought of that. Im betting some companies are a little more accurate than others, but this info on online needs to be 100% accurate for those of us relying on it. If you feel up tomot, feel free to look that info up and post your findings here in the comments section. Keep in mind that it will vary a little depending on the frame. For example, this frame allows the actuator to poke through a little on the one-up, it won't be the same measurement as on other frames where that's not possible.
For everyone’s reference for the 150mm droppers the advertised tellis insertion depth is 262mm, the oneup is 237mm and the fall line r is 224mm. It isn’t clear if those include the actuators tho!
I can barely get away with a oneup 200mm dropper and it's the absolute dream (I'm only 5'8"/173cm tall lol).
Another consideration.... I tried to fit a 200mm Fox Transfer in my Paradox. The numbers on paper all said it would fit. Unfortunately, the cable hole on the seat tube was too high for the cable to exit the seat tube. Unwilling to cut a hole lower in the seat tube, I had to settle for a 175mm dropper.
Bummer. That's why I designed my Maniak the way I did.
@@hardtailparty I remember that! I kept the 200...I have a feeling I'll use it on my next frame
Been wondering about the mast and clamp as well. a low profile style used on aero roadbikes should work with droppers too. I also prefer using roadbike saddles lately as they also tend to have lower profile seats and rails compared to mtb saddles. They are also Lighter and have better ergonomics than most mtb saddles
I dig road saddles too
Great visual explanation. Time for Binary to start designing and making low-stack dropper posts with you...?
Hah, I wish!
I know it’s off subject, but is that the Phantom? I’ve had my eye on that one for a while.
Good to know that there's no one dropper to rule them all. Best option for when ever I need to get a new one will be to order locally, and give them a heads up that I need to swop it if it doesn't work.
or make these same measurements and check online with each dropper's specs on their website.
you guys ride with a seat?
steve the only issue with oneUp is the longer 160 droppers are actually 180, shimmed.
so biggest i could go on my propain's was 150mm
but yes, oneUp prolly has the best dropper to insertion ratio out there
I've been wondering if foot size can factor into the size of dropper that a rider can ride? I only thought of it as I'm barely five foot six, but I wear US size thirteen shoes and I find I can comfortably pedal 170mm droppers on my two medium framed bikes, and 150mm on my large framed bike. I'm not sure if it is a factor but it could be interesting, hopefully.
Steve, can you make a video about Shimano Cues, I think it's going to revolutionize entry level mountain bikes. Also, I love my One Up dropper.
I hope I can. Shimano is a massive company and I don't have any contacts there. It's tough for small guys like me to get their stuff in for review. But I'm super interested in the 9 speed one
@@hardtailparty I'm excited that someone buying an $800 bike can get a reliable 1x drivetrain
We assume it's reliable. We'll see...
Not sure where to ask this, but wondering if you've ever ridden a Transition Vanquish. I can't find a video for it. It's a single cage frame so dropper insert isn't a problem at all. Anyway... the Vanquish is awesome if you've not been on one.
🤔im still trying to figure out what length of dropper i need for my large big al, im 185cm, but i only have 5 inches 127mm of the stock rigid post inserted inside the frame😱 may be i should of got an XL ragley big al🤔too late now, hopefully i can still make it work steve🤞👍
You can make the same measurements i did in this video to determine how much dropper you can fit.
I'm barely 5'7" with short legs, I ride a medium transition scout and the 180mm one-up V2 dropper slammed to the collar is perfect seat height. My 2017 Kona honzo has a 125mm pnw components rainier dropper and I'm always dreaming of a hard tail that can get me to 180mm
Check out the binary Maniak. You can run a 200 on it in a size med (unless you have an inseam shorter than 27.5")
Funny you have this video, was just wondering how to get a 170 dropper in my new 2022 alloy specialized stump jumper, I think it won’t take any longer because of the seat tube being interrupted by pivot also. Guess it just depends on max insertion point of dropper and seat insertion max.
It also depends on your inseam and ideal saddle height.
@@hardtailparty sorry I should have finished watching video before replying, was at work. I’ll look into the One up, my inseam is pretty short, I’m like 29 or 30 inch inseam.
@@50whatnomadtravelnursemtb5 This is one main reason I decided to go with Santa Cruz over Specialized despite their big sales. I think 150 mm may be the limit for your inseam as dropper tube/insersion length also increases if you go up to 170 mm, and it will stick out more at the lowest saddle position for Specialized Stumpy, unfortunately.
@@radidoc4832 I’m fine with that then, it’s Not really a deal breaker for me. My ebike I have a 170 dropper on. I you are right the specialized just won’t allow it to be inserted low enough to work.
Another lesson for bike companies, move the pivot to the front of the tube, not the middle lol.
what do you think about bike yoke revives? Seems to be the de facto best dropper out there when it comes up (I've also owned three). Thoughts?
Love em except for the head/saddle clamp. I love my 9point8s too.
Steve have you ever removed a water bottle boss to get your dropper post inserted lower? I'm considering this for one of my hardtails.
Not yet, but I've considered it. I'm lucky though that I have two maniaks and a neuahaus, where that isn't a problem. On my Marin tm2 I'm strongly considering drilling out the nutsert upper bottle hole. This is why I always mention dropper post interference in my first look vids. It's crazy how many companies have water bottle interference with the dropper.
Hey, have you changed shock on your Spitfire or did you get it with Float X mounted - can you share your 4 digit code from the canister? How do you like your Spitfire by the way?
This is the newest spitfire, the v. 3.2. I don't know much about the different versions and whether the older ones can fit this shock. I'll bet banshee can answer that for you. This is the stock frame and shock from banshee.
Hi, may i ask if i can make a hole on Hardtail frame (center tube) to accommodate internal dropper post? are there any consequences? Thanks and more power
Yes you can, if you know what you're doing.. The consequences are weakening they time and allowing water to now enter in that place. That said, frame builders do this everyday when making a new bike from scratch.
@@hardtailparty Thanks
What am I missing with the 9.8 Fall Line R? When he measures 690 instead of his required 670mm resulting in 20mm of extra height, he mentions he sould shim the post down to 130mm but says you can tell a difference between a 130mm and 150mm dropper and that is unacceptable for him. Seems to me if he shimmed it down to 130mm that would result in a seat height of 670mm and when he rode it and dropped the post it would drop all the way down, same as if it were setup as a 150mm post, therefore the saddle would be at the same height regardless of whether it is set at 130mm or 150mm drop.
Think of it this way: I'd like a 670 extended height, and a 520mm or shorter dropped height. A shimmed 9point8 would have a 540mm height at it's lowest height. You feel that extra 20mm of height.
I think you're forgetting that different posts have different clamp/head heights. The oneup and 9point8 saddle heights aren't the same when the dropper is all the way down. The one-up sits 20mm lower.
Just ordered a new One Up dropper for my Maniak. Went for the 240mm drop to replace my 210mm dropper.
You raise valid points about product design to improve droppers in general. Hopefully someone is listening.
Min insertion is also a problem for long legged folks.
Have you run into that, where you couldn't run a long dropper due to too low of min insertion? I would that no all these 200-240mm droppers would open up more options for long-legged riders.
@@hardtailparty no but I’ve had bikes that come stock with too short of a dropper for min insertion. I like the lower seat tubes but if they make bike with low slung seat tubes but they can’t keep spec’ing large bikes with 150-170mm seat posts.
@@brassmnky33 i guess this proves that everyone, tall or short, wants the dropper slammed in with longest drop possible!!
You must own like 50 bikes now. I never seen that one.
Why do taller riders need less dropper travel and shorter riders need more travel?
I say everyone should get the max amount of drop they can fit. It's harder for short riders to get 175+mm because seat tubes are long.
I have never really understood this fetish. My 65 mm dropper post more than enough on an XC hardtail. 100 mm is fine for trail riding. I am usually running S frames though.
I think it's a bit dismissive to call it a fetish. We all ride differently and have different goals. I imagine you're not regularly climbing or bunnyhopping up 24-36" ledges regularly. Or even descending and dropping off 24-36".ledges. Those of us that do, greatly benefit from more than 100mm drop on our droppers. The real question is, why WOULDN'T you want more dropper capability to have more bike/body separation? Watch my hangover on the Maniak video and you'll see why half that much dropper.post would be a problem for me.