Power Supplies Need a New Rating System (80 Plus Misunderstandings & Cheated Results)
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
- The problem with 80 Plus certifications is that they're misunderstood. It doesn't have as much meaning as buyers often think, so we're going through the problems, rigging results, & more.
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We have a lot of power supply behind-the-scenes videos over on Patreon! Check them out here and support us at the same time: / gamersnexus
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We had a lot more to talk about in this video, but tried to cut it down hard for efficiency. All the important stuff is there: We talk about what 80 Plus is good at (and it is good at some things), what it's lacking, and how to interpret this as a buyer. No certification will cover every aspect of a PSU -- at least, not to the depth of a review -- but it may be unrealistic to expect that much. Instead, we tried to explain how to extract meaning from 80 Plus without expecting too much.
If you want to see our PSU efficiency testing in action, check out our Aresgame AGS850 review: • Top Amazon PSU Falsely...
We did a PSU explosion speedrun here: • Speedrun Gigabyte Powe...
Here's a video on PSU & GPU power behavior form previously, featuring electrical engineer TiN (formerly EVGA): • TiN Explains Load-Line...
Finally, if you want to see what it looks like when a PSU safely trips OPP, we did a speedrun of that as well: • Gigabyte, This is How ...
RELATED PRODUCTS
(lol) 115V Internal Certification on Clearesult - you can buy your own 80 Plus cert! www.clearesult.com/shop/115v-...
EVGA SuperNova 750 G5 on Amazon is actually good [affiliate link]: geni.us/73O0h
Seasonic Focus GX-750 on Amazon is also actually good [affiliate link]: geni.us/JNVMaI
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - The 80 Plus Problem
05:29 - What 80 Plus ISN'T
07:47 - Rigging the Results & Cheating
11:16 - What 80 PLUS Is
13:52 - Applying for Testing
15:37 - 80 Plus Sticker Cost, Certification, & Licensing
19:51 - How You Can Use 80 PLUS Reports
20:17 - Alternatives to 80 Plus Certification
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Host, Copy Editing: Steve Burke
Writing, Testing: Patrick Stone
Video: Keegan Gallick
Video: Andrew Coleman - Hry
We have a lot of power supply behind-the-scenes videos over on Patreon, including one we just published this morning! Check them out here and support us at the same time: patreon.com/gamersnexus
If you want to see our PSU efficiency testing in action, check out our Aresgame AGS850 review: czcams.com/video/EmeFRtoiIrQ/video.html
We did a PSU explosion speedrun here: czcams.com/video/7JmPUr-BeEM/video.html
Here's a video on PSU & GPU power behavior form previously, featuring electrical engineer TiN (formerly EVGA): czcams.com/video/V2dqHqlyWio/video.html
Finally, if you want to see what it looks like when a PSU safely trips OPP, we did a speedrun of that as well: czcams.com/video/2SleaZ68ZO0/video.html
Hello GN, I really like your mouse pad but could you make a glow in the dark option because that would be awesome.
4:39 Noooooo! It’s an LTT Segway! Arrgghhhhh! 💥💥🤯🤯
your videos lack cats recently.
Can you test more psus the way you test cpu coolers to see which ones are actually good?
actually the beer foam is just some aerated liquid, it has a density between 1/4 and 1/7 of the actual liquid. So this analogy doesn't work that well.
You need to create a GN certification program.
Tiers:
"It doesn't explode"
"Better than Dell"
"It's fine"
A higher rating would be "We like it"
You forgot the other tier, fireworks
Is it sad that id probably hold all future psu's to this standard?
"buy it right now" -the next decent ~~$250 GPU that shows up in the market if such a thing were to ever happen again
"It doesn't offend us"
"90 Plus is how many firefighters will show up to fight the fire in your house if you use that." this is pure gold
you mean pure 80+ gold?
@@Cinetyk "90 Plus" was referring to the reddit screenshot at 9:09
@@rhekman he’s making a psu pun off the original comment. Instead of saying “this is pure gold” he’s being funny saying “this is pure 80+ gold”
Both are the same thing in the end, marketing to sell!
@@ianmoone8244 True, and I wouldn't disagree. Though I'd be inclined to avoid any company willing to do something as made up and deceptive as "90 Plus".
It's like one job applicant with a college degree - showing they spent the time and money at least to get a diploma. Then another job applicant with a "Harverd University" certificate they hope you don't scrutinize too closely.
I lost it at the picture of the "Octominer" PSU with a "90 PLUS Gold" rating.
90+ explosions and house fires
@@bitelaserkhalif should have subscribed to the ibxtoycat channel, since 99% of house fires happen to those who are not subscribed
(wonder if anyone will get the reference)
@@benedani9580 I know the reference. I'll leave this here: 500.
can't wait when they start slaping 100 PLUS 😂😂
@@Romanitto 110 plus when? 110% efficiency, don't ask how that works!
That reddit comment about 90+ being the number of firefighters who will show up to your house if you use that power supply is hilarious!
i used to think it meant it had an 80% chance of not blowing up
Those are good chances!
@@GamersNexus That would be an excellent chance for the gigabyte psu.
Don’t know...but now i’m worrying about my sfx cooler masster v850...
Exactly lol, my thoughts too
Me when i first got into pc building
These are the videos the community needs
fo sho
yup after this video my average trust for 80+ went down the shitter If its this simple to bypass a psu's actual certification then it might as well not have it. Not to say that I wont factor it in but my likelihood of recommending a product with that factor in mind is none. user reviews is where its at
Yes. Not been a fan of the prebuilt series but I get there is maybe an audience for it. I don’t really watch content to get dunked on so no loss on my part but if gn is looking for feedback, keep this stuff up.
igorsLAB actually did a video on 80 Plus certificates last year, but it's good to see Gamers Nexus bringing attention to this to a more general audience
Too right mate
15 mintute intervals, Gigabyte would classify that as Extended testing and edge case usage
''only servers run for that long'' -someone at Gigabyte, probably...
@@theoakun3635servers run 15+ days so it makes sense
We need GN+ stickers on power supplies. Gamers Nexus certified
If only... Sadly there's too many PSUs
@@sebastianirala7714 They are effectively making their own lab in the new building. Perhaps a testing group of high ethics will be part of their future
There are other youtubers who test power supplies, but yeah it's a hassle that even with that crap sticker we still have to search tests from a known community person to know if it's a good buy since the companies pay the standard for nothing as it's all just a big BS for other companies to rip off buyers and the company making those shitty standards to get rich without providing any kind of service at all to customers other than snake oil...
@@guily6669 I've been looking for exactly those reviewers. Could you drop some names?
@@guily6669 I fully agree. and also, who stops a random company faking this sticker? it's not like GN could or even want to afford a literal army of lawyers.
This is something so many of my friends don't get. 80+ is not a mark of quality, it is a rough guide on efficiency. Thank you Steve. This is some great PSA work.
Thanks for saying what the video said. 👍
well i used to believe what your friends think, and alot of people selling these still think that
Show me a crappy Platinum or Titanium rated PSU, and I'll give you $1000.
Im really happy to see this; i voted for this in the poll
Efficiency is often related to the quality of internal components though. You are highly unlikely to find a titanium certified no brand name PSU. It’s not an exact science, but there is a link.
It’s hilarious how you had “do not use” stickers on the Gigabyte power supply boxes!
Well, they have stock they reused and retest for all sorts of reasons from verifying baselines to creating new test benches. It's important to know when stock's defective, so they don't do something like creating a test bench with bad components. And, unlike you and I, they can't throw out bad or defective items on the off-chance they need to provide proof of their claims.
So, while it seems silly for those stickers, the stickers do serve a good purpose.
@@jackielinde7568
"We had a testbench with a 3090 and
The wall of dead Gigabyte power supplies--wow. GN is ruthless.
I love how GN makes a reference to the Gigabyte power supply nearly, if not every video they make. Gigabyte deserves every bit of flac, and more for the crap they pulled.
I think it's important to remember where 80 Plus came from. Before the standard was established it wasn't uncommon that PSU efficiency was in the 60% range. That is if you burned 200W at the wall then 80W was immediately converted to heat in the PSU while the computer itself got 120W to feed on. For a PSU 70% efficiency was considered very good, but efficiency was not something that you ever heard a word about when talking PSU's. This might not sound that horrible, but multiply that by a few hundred computers with these 60% efficiency PSU's in a business and it adds up. At the same time there were a lot of talk about how we had to start saving power. There were a lot of talk about how we should turn off the light in a room when we left it, turn off TV's and such instead of having them in standby and in some countries daylight saving time was introduced in order to make better use of the daylight during the summer to cut down on the need for electrical lighting. With all of this going on, and computers needing more power making more efficient PSU's was quite logical. When 80 Plus was first introduced there were very few PSU's that could pass the certification.
A few years ago the 80 Plus gold PSU's was as common as hens teeth. That is they were hard to make and only a handful of PSU's were able to achieve this efficiency. Back then a design that was able to pass this was very likely to be well thought through and very well designed and built, and the prices reflected that. The same was the case with the Platinum grade PSU's when those first became available. These were the absolute top of the line PSU's and only used the best components.
As more and more PSU manufacturers managed to create platforms meeting the Gold or even Platinum standard the law of price and availability meant that the competition grew and price became more important. Today making a Gold compliant PSU is no longer some kind of black art, but making them cheap is. The result is that there are a lot of certified gold compliant PSU's being sold that are built to a price point that's way to low to allow for the nicer things like stable voltage control and quality long life components.
And that's why 80 Plus is no longer of any use when you try to find out the quality of a PSU, other than what efficiency it has, and then that's only valid if the PSU's sold are built to the same standard as the PSU used for certification.
This is a high-quality comment that deserves many more upvotes.
Are you ok dude?
I did that experiment a few times last night. I think it definitely helped me understand power factor
"The beer is the real power!" ................. AMEN!
now we know alot more about steve, talking about beer, selling beer glasses, beer mats
@@arch1107 You review enough pre-built PCs, you'll be driven to drinking as well.
@@rhekman lol true
oktobeer confirmed tommorow
@@arch1107 the belly is a giveaway
Gamers nexus really could become a certification company, the whole industry knows that these guys know what they are talking about.
I doubt the GN team has enough people, time nor interest in doing so though.
And considering that certifications without a regular recertification process are kinda pointless consumers are better of buying goods tested by knowledgeable sources, preferably multiple different ones.
@@barcodeguy7627
GN, or rather Steve, said thats his endgame with the GN brand.
But he said GN would not be certifying PC stuff as long as the GN brand is also doing review, because that's a conflict of interest.
@Samurai Shampoo Imagine simping so hard for a company that you still defend them even after they certified "gold" a power supply that literally explodes yikes.
We need a new rating for PSUs that defines the overall quality and chances of explosions. The Burke Rating.
Won't happen. These companies thrive on marketing tactics to mislead their customers.
ltt psu tier list for now.
you mean the beve sturk rating?
The Beve Sturke rating scale
@@eveangreen1871 wow sorry I didn’t see you beat me to it
Man, GN is on a roll lately! Loving the content.
ngl, Gamers Nexus content is keeping my interest on PC hardware alive. I'll save this video whenever someone asks me if a PSU is good/better based on 80plus alone.
Back to you Steve.
That's assuming they don't plug their ears and say they can't hear you.
Good old beer analogy for apparent power, I knew it was coming when you mentioned power factor lol
I'm really glad you guys as a bigger outlet tackle this stuff. It gets kind of tiresome trying to explain to people that the efficiency rating is no indicator for the quality of the PSU.
I love how every episode now has a joke at Gigabyte’s expense.
@Samurai Shampoo I don't know... I find the joke about Gigabyte's power supply funny every time.
Yeah I'm pretty sure the exploding power supply clip has made it into EVERY video released since the occurrence :D
@@sultanofsick could you say that the topic has BLOWN UP since the occurrence? :D
@@LaughingSkull451 haha
Sounds like a market gap for fully tested and rated power supplies.
There was a website back last time I bought a power supply (in 2011) that did EXTENSIVE testing on components including power supplies, but I can't remember the name. They verified the efficiency sicker, did ripple and "clean" power measurements, talked about the rails (having many 12v rails was all the rage back then as it was "more stable"), and even a tear-down looking for all the safety and quality components installed and overall construction. I wish I could remember the name of the website, because I can't find it again. Its possible it's gone now.
@@sultanofsick Johnny guru?
@@cameronwebster6866 I really don't know. I thought it was "hardware secrets" or something very very close to that, but googling that didn't get me there when I tried to find it again. I was fairly sure "hardware" appeared in the name somewhere, but I no longer have any idea at all.
I must be old. I remember when they introduced the 80 plus standard and it was clear at the time that it was a measure of power efficiency only. It is strange that the perception of what it means has warped over time.
This is the exactly the kind of content that I love from Gamers Nexus and why the community needs him.
EDIT: for them! I forget there is a whole team.
Needs them! It's a whole team behind these videos!
@@GamersNexus my bad, fixed the comment, super cool yall replied though. Love the content.
@@GamersNexus want a thermal paste for laptop with which paste should I go with kryonaut, noctua nt nh1 ,or artic mx4,or kingpin kpx or gelid gc extreme which one will last 8 -10 months without drying or significant rise in temp
@@aringiri1946 Toothpaste and honey
This is the kind of content that sets GN apart from the rest of tech CZcams. Awesome stuff.
only tech youtubers? the only other close is johnny guru and that is sort of gone now
I remember in late 2000s when I was active in a tech forum and recommending PC parts to look for PFC and 80 Plus as minimum elements to consider for a quality PSU, but only as a first filter to remove quick junk.
Nowadays it's much harder to find quality PSUs as there is way more brands than before and multiple OEMs are used by the same brand even in the same product line.
It's much easier today to find quality PSUs because our standards for judging them have risen so much, that today a barely more than average PSU is a near equivalent to a high end PSU from 20 years ago, except when the PSU has chinese capacitors and a sleeve bearing fan, the two most common components to fail as long as the PSU is operated within a margin of its rating, dust cleaned out once in a blue moon, and doesn't seen any power line surges.
Remember, testing PSU against their upper limits or even 70% of it keeps the manufacturers more honest, but you don't have to limit yourself to just buying barely enough PSU unless you have some monster mining or gaming rig where every watt counts.
If you pick a less than ideal PSU but it powers the system fine for a decade or longer, what does it matter if someone else likes a different PSU more for philosophical reasons? Look to OEMs who have a lot of experience providing enough PSU for the system (as shipped) without expensive excess, but of course OEMs sometimes have quality control problems too.
As it stands today: filter by manufacturer: Seasonic. Doesn't guarantee they won't make shit in future though.
So one of the things I would had liked to see is more discussion over where PSU's were before and after the 80+ certifications. When it was introduced there was a massive issue of PSU's being overly inflated ratings for what they were. It was not uncommon to have PSU's 20-30% below their advertised wattage. There was also tons of HUGE QC issues with these PSU's and scant reviews into them in any details so the risk was very real to buy a PSU that would literally catch fire or die. In the early 2000's I had replaced many burnt out PSU's. A lot of times they were advertised more on their cool wiz-bang (windows lights fancy cables) features vs actual quality. PC Power and Cooling was a premier supplier of PSU's because they used to actually include a sheet with their test results of your PSU which was pretty much the only mark of quality we had back then. When HardOCP started testing the PSU's we started seeing tons of popular PSU's that would just fail all the time. It was really bad. Getting a 600w PSU? You can safely assume it would only ever be able to hit 420w.
I would like to see an expansion of the certifications maybe the UL certifications in terms of PSU Safety coupled with 80+ for efficacy. I don't know if there is a way to have a industry standard of "This is a high-quality unit' without just relying on reviews.
Wtf are you talking about?
There is a reason that for a very long time, product lists made by comsumer groups have existed and continues to exists. There are a couple PSU and SSD lists out there and they mostly deal with the products quality as opposed to its collection of badges, awards or its marketing.
80+ Gold might as well be a legacy standard by now. Realistically, we need to revamp based on the Titanium specifications and test down to standby efficiency. Maybe they should add in those extra protection features as well fir certification.
Protection really should be covered by an improved ATX specification - the standard that defines voltages, regulatiin, ripple etc.
Another thing - Titanium is hard to reach and it's mainly big PSU that can manage this certification. It's a bit like the star rating for car impact testing. Small and large cars can get the same rating - but they need to keep a lower bar for 5 stars from a small car, because it can't have as big zones to take up energy etc.
PSU technology is constantly moving forward, but having mass market "normal" (commodity) PSU manage Titanium is still out of our abilities. We have reached a level where Gold is reasonably easy to fulfill, but it's still making an impact on the total BOM cost.
Those low load/idle scenarios are why it's not the best idea to buy a 1000W unit for basically anyone.
Even with a 5800X and RX 6700 XT you're barely over 400W under full load, but are under 80W in idle. With a 1000W unit idle load goes way below 10% and that is where efficiency goes down quickly. For something like that a good 550W unit will be a way better choice with around 15% idle and 70% load, moving pretty much within the 20% and 80% test points, where PSUs are quite efficient.
"90 plus is how many firefighters will show up at your house if you use this PSU" is a good one lol.
TL;DR - The 80 Plus certification program can be a good indicator to consider when purchasing a power supply. But it should not be your only point of consideration.
I have been looking forward to a video like this for so long, thank you! Your content is always fantastic
Needed this PSUs are confusing 🥺
Yes, they are confusing and there's not a lot of great documentation on them for entry-level and intermediate knowledge levels. We're trying to help with that!
@@GamersNexus keep calling out the cheaters and the bad manufacturers Steve.
@@GamersNexus There's a PSU Tier list on the LTT forum, I usually use it to get a decent general idea of the quality of the PSU I'm buying.
@@SpaceLion949 You shouldn't thrust those forums too much. There is always someone trying to push some agenda at some point and you can never really tell where. Might be just my personal experience though.
@@_Teorias_ I have read the methology, as I said, it's good to get a decent general idea. Ideally you would want to read specialized reviews for the specific unit, but not everyone is capable of understanding those. Electricity is a topic that requires a lot of study.
I don't really know what you mean buy pushing an agenda. I would 100% prefer to refer to some kind of guide like that before making a PSU purchase instead of not knowing anything at all about the product I'm interested in. For people that don't have knowledge in the topic, I'd say is a good advice.
GN should create their own standard for power supply quality
honestly if i ever win the lottery im throwing money at gamers nexus to go out find a huge team of legit people and to test many many products out there. just to find out what is good or not
80+Gold, who cares if the 12v rail drops to 7V at 40% load, so long as the efficacy is there, lol.
Look at the ATX standard a PSU claims to follow. The ATX standard focuses on physical size, cable connectors, voltages, ripple etc that relates to the PSU being *usable* and *replaceable* in a system.
So a motherboard vendor must design based in the ATX standard since that's the standard that dictates what is handed over to the power connectors on the motherboard.
What's funny to me is Coolermaster flexing about standards. I had one coolermaster psu about 5 years ago. In returned it because 12V line dropped to 11.4V in load.
@@Herbertti3 5% drop is juuuuust on the limit for +/- 5%.
@@Herbertti3 yeah, that's pushing it, I recall 'good' XT power-supplies being in the 12.25V to 11.75V range eons before ATX12V lol. 11.4V is oof. that was probably on the edge and just skimmed past QA at that voltage.
Can just say my 12V drops to 11.74V and have ben like that for 12 years soon can just say so long it stays stable around 12V its fine for me when I oc my GPUs 11.4V that's high drop from 12V and every 0.1V does a bigg difference for my oc
I've been telling people for years that while an '80+ Gold' will "typically" indicate better quality components are used, it's not guaranteed.
This is why I only buy PSUs with the Unobtainium 1000 ratings.
i see your poor, my psu has a unobtainium 1000+1 rating
Wait, is this higher tier than unobtainium Diamond super duper excellent? 🤔
I had to settle for Obtainium Brown 25- because of shortages.
It runs on coal and dead pandas.
The smog helps to hide the pixilation on screen though, so that's nice.
@@KillaBitz Yours does AA without taking up GPU resources?! Neat! 🥳
@@KillaBitz saves on the heating bill am i right, when i was in college i had a similar psu and modded it into an oilburner
In some ways, "80 Plus Gold" or "80 Plus Platinum" used to mean somewhat more for overall power supply quality than it does these days.
It meant more not due to any testing for quality directly, but simply because it used to be the case you needed quality components and engineering to reach those efficiency levels. In recent times however, advances in the technology have allowed cheaper components and lazier engineering to reach those efficiency levels, Of course, even with good components/engineering you can still have systematic assembly/QC failings, but having quality components/engineering is the first step.
Yes, back in the day you couldn't just whip out a dogshit 80plus gold from a backalley in China. Last PSU I bough was a titanium one after extensive research, and I was baffled by the variation displayed by the units and yes all of it were in normal range but it's still interesting to to see. There is still a chance that a worse product exhibits behaviour that lies outside "normal" limits
“the power we’re going to need if we review another power supply that lies about its efficiency “ 😆
You guys are on a tear lately! Keep up the good work.
The thing I love most about the power efficiency graphs is how clearly it shows how little you gain by being in a PSUs "Sweet spot" and puts to rest the old wives tale of having too high wattage of a power supply.
Yes and no; modern systems idle at extremely low power, and only Titanium actually lists any efficiency below 20%. While modern supplies have pretty flat curves from 15-30% up to near peak load, efficiency still can fall off a cliff below 10% or so. If you have an 800W power supply and a system that idles below 80W (a fairly generous idle number these days) then you're down in the area where efficiency can be 50-60% or lower even on fairly good supplies.
You certainly don't need to go crazy optimizing your supply for the exact expected load, but getting a PSU that's rated for double or triple your expected load will still leave you a lot lower on the curve at idle than you'd like, since modern components are so much better about reducing idle power than they used to be.
@@siberx4 just to add some numbers: 80+ gold, lowest tested load (20%)
total - tested
400w - 80w
640w - 128w
800w - 160w
1200w - 240w
And that's generous not only for idle in most consumer pcs, it's generous for normal office work and web browsing as well.
Gaming will be usually above, though in a low spec system you could still use less power than some of these bigger PSUs are tested for.
Consoles usually are pretty power efficient I believe, but ps5/series X both use around 210w peak iirc - just to have another comparison.
@@siberx4 Though to be fair low efficiency with very low loads isn't that bad given it's low power in the first place, so while in relative terms it's not great, in absolute terms is not a big deal in regards to extra heat output and wasted power consumption.
80% efficiency at 90% load waste a lot more energy than a 20% efficiency at 10% load
@@kazedcat True enough, but computers tend to spend a lot more of their time at or near idle than they do at full load so in terms of total energy, idle has a more significant impact than its low power consumption would otherwise imply. If you run your system with "regular" tasks like web browsing 8 hours a day at say 50W and run it full load 1 hour a day at 400W, you'd actually be split 50/50 for your total kWhr consumed between idle and full load. If your idle is very inefficient, it would still make up the majority of your overall power consumption in that case.
You are at a point in your career where you can honestly change the industry. Your voice is being heard. It would be nice if there were another certification that covers everything that 80plus doesn't. You should make a video covering all the psu's you have tested and rank them most recommended to least recommended without including costing as a factor of recommendation.
I think the most important part about this piece is the detailed explanation of the certification process, because a lot of certification processes across all sorts of industries share a lot of similarities to this. A person could make an entire career out of simply doing reviews on certification systems themselves. Somebody should.
Hey Steve, just curious as to what your thoughts are on Cybenetics' rating/certification efficiency levels and if they would be better than the 80 Plus system.
Talked about it a little bit at the end!
As a power systems engineer, I applaud your power factor explanation!! Perfectly done.
Learned this 2 years into my first build in 2014 (ish?)
Thank god there's some in depth PSU review articles online now
Outstanding video, I love this kind of 'how stuff works of tech' content. I could have used a little more info on power factor though, I'm still not really clear on how it's different from efficiency.
Usually just go with something well known like EVGA or Seasonic or Corsair or BeQuiet or something
@Stolas for exploding nowadays 😆
Until they start pulling a Western Digital, MSI, and/or Gigabyte.
Well known and good are two *different* metrics. And being well known from one niche doesn't mean a company has skills in other niches. So the "well known" may originate from motherboard or graphics cards products and the PSU "division" might be a CEO + board of directors that gets an idea that maybe there is money in PSU too. And then buys a design from a company you have never heard about.
corsair is not a manufacturer like seasonic
corsair buys units and rebrands them, some are from good builders some are chinese crap
@@OdinAlgeron But it's the brand on the label and box that a buyer will see. And Corsair is a good example of how just a brand name alone isn't enough.
When building a PC these days I just don’t think I can trust a single component especially when there are zero repercussions for intentionally selling faulty components and pulling the old bait and switch methods that have been reported on.
that's why it's important to have brand reputation and reviews
Thanks for breaking this and so many other topics (ram) into pieces us plebs can understand. There is so much misinformation out there. Thanks Steve and gamer nexus team!
I really love the effort you put into your videos and how you're trying to share and educate instead of acting like if your viewers were stupid (as lots of computer-related CZcams channels do).
Thanks you so much for this.
Anyway, I can't believe how I was fooled by 80+ certifications, next time I buy a PSU I'll try to have one backed up by experts and not only the manufacturer and a this certification.
The million-dollar question is: what are the recommended sources?
Steve remains one of the best consumer advocates in this industry. Keep up the good work GN--proud to have one of the wireframe mouse mats on my desk.
I've been waiting for this topic for quite some time. Thanks!
First lecture from GN I was able to fully make thru. Thanks for the in-depth research, as always.
Hardware manufacturers sweating profusely whenever GN posts a new video...
When are you going to start certifying computer products?
I will forever respect and support you guys so long as you keep this up. Keeping the facts on the table and calling out bs. Thank you we need more than 1% of ppl not clout chasing but I’ll take it.
Long time viewer just writing to say I'm really glad that there's been time to do all these power supply videos, can't wait to see reviews and/or round ups to know where PSUs compare
The two most important components in any PC build for me is #1 The Case, and #2 The Power Supply. Those are the biggest causes of unstable, flaky builds where components get too hot because of crap airflow or a power supply with too much ripple and voltage creep under load and higher temperature. Bad PSUs can cause lots of odd problems that are very hard to diagnose..
A question: My friend is an electrical engineer. He once (~ 2000-ish) told me a simple rule of thumb: If you have two PSUs (same specs, like 650W - in the "old" days you didn't know anything else), the one that is heavier is probably better. I adopted this rule, and never had any problems up to 2010. In 2010 was the "crossover" point when I started buying everything online. So in the last 10 years, I first read a lot of different reviews before buying. But I'm curious. If you have two PSUs, with the same specs, was it true that the one that's heavier was probably better?
It's still usable. The main thing that makes the weight difference is the size of main transformator (trafo). Trash PSU always uses cheapo-small-light weight trafo.
@@dhanarputra555 Thank you for an answer and quick explanation what was probably my friend talking about 2 decades ago...
Unless they put weights in the PSU, which some manufacturers have done, usually worse ones.
Been waiting on this. Informative and proves the industry needs an new standard of rating parts.
Great content, appreciate the in depth explanation good sir.
I learned long ago anything that delivers power, where money can be made by obscuring and obfuscating the specifications to fool people who don’t know any better, even well known brands are going to abuse that for profit. It’s been going on with PSU’s for as long as I’ve been building, 20 years. And it’s absolutely rampant with car audio amplifiers. Even brands like Sony straight up lie about their amps power output and hide the RMS rating in tiny text somewhere on the box if they show it at all. 800 watts “peak power”, 150 watts RMS. That’s a weak amp that sounds like a beast and it’s probably over priced.
I like to think of efficient psus like efficient cars, and sure the gigabyte one might be efficient but so was the Ford pinto, and they both also happen to catch fire very easily regardless
highly appreciate this channel all about their efforts , time and thorough talkings any raising problem. around out there more and more fake, false, misleading short videos under 10min, tik tok 30s explaining the economics, other big things, etc… but in short, the audience watch and think that they really understand and know everything?
Nice to know my titanium rated psu was tested at 100%. Thanks for the further understanding of this subject. I would watch more reviews of power supplies. 👍
just want to say that clip of the Gigabyte PSU exploding in Patrick's face will never, ever get old.
Thank you for this video. Its need for the consumer.
Yes! I wish more people knew about power factor. I used the beer mug analogy all the time!
I'd just like to thank you all at GN for how in depth you are. It's just amazing how much you put out, considering this level of depth and insight.
Gonna just ask you straight-up, Steve: is there any specific PSU series from any brand that you deem consistently reliable? Or are all brands incapable of such a feat nowadays, haha.
Not Steve and I’d still do my home work but superflower/ evga and seasonic are usually solid.
@@RetropUk Oh yeah, I did my research for specific units and settled on a specific Seasonic unit when I built this machine last year, as it offered nice quality parts, has good power handling and no weird cutoff issues with strong/rapid load transients (kind of a must-have if you want to run an overclocked Ryzen 3000 series CPU alongside a Powerplay-overcurrented Vega, the current peaks are not to be underestimated!)
I was aiming to get a reply the general public might have a good use for, as sort of a sidenote to this video. :)
Most brands have low-end and high-end series products. They may make excellent - but expensive - products. But also wants some of the market shares from the mass market. Just look at how many different series of PSU Corsair has.
Most of Seasonic Power Supplies are great. Except the S12 series, those are OEM and not made by Seasonic themselves, but are probably also fine.
Reminds me of the Corsair VS450, around the cheapest from a respectable brand, but you get what you pay for, it's their most lowend model, so expect some rather mediocre quality.
On the other hand, there are some decent LC-Power units that are better than the name suggests. They aren't super high quality units for the enthusiast overclocker, but okay enough to not explode if you put a bit load onto it.
In the end if all comes down to the internals, and those can be quite different between different series of the same brand and even different models within a series (Looking at the recently famous Gigabyte ones, where only the 750 & 850W ones were crap, but the rest are fine)
Basically, if you see a unit and nobody among your friends/family/colleagues has ever heard of the company stay away, but if it's a well known brand, take a look for reviews for that particular model and revision.
When buying a PSU, it's just a question of which one from Seasonic to choose 😅
I have a pretty old 550 watt seasonic power supply (around 12 years old now) I got from a used PC and used it again for my Dell optiplex "gaming" PC. Still seems to work pretty good but I'd imagine the capacitors are dying out.
i think the cable length is a big factor too because i heard of a company submitting a psu for 80 plus certification with short cables for a good result and shipped it with normal cables and invalidated the original rating
I was concerned with 10%< loads consumption and was amazed how anything below titanium doesn't have a minimum percentage efficiency. I went with a seasonic titanium one year and half ago when it costed like 150€ new for a 750w.
"if you're Phanteks buying a Seasonic power suply" - hey that's about my power supply!
In the end there are less manufacturers than brands. Seasonic is one of them who does both, build them for other companies and sell them under their own name. FSP is another one.
Steve, I recently got a new laptop with an amazing 4k mini led screen, you look different in 4k lol. your hair is even more majestic somehow.
Great video, thanks Steve!
Thanks for your great service Steve
Newegg doesn't have a ripple current filter to sort by. :(
I feel the puns in your scripts are underrated, so commenting so you know they are very much appreciated :)
Really good that u do test on Powersupplies for PCs
This is so informative, I had no idea.
Thought that the level meant quality, till the bronze rated power supply from new egg had lasted me 8 years
Do you consider 8 years to be good or bad?
sounds decent to me, but i dunno, i dont have a psu with that age until now yet
I have a 1200 Watt Vulcan PSU 80 Plus Bronze, runs for over 10 years now. It powered 8 different machines, almost all SLI/Crossfire high-end setups and it is still running. I do clean it every time I build new stuff around it though. I guess it's pretty good :) It is massive and has incredibly thick components in it. I don't even know if the brand still exists lol, back then I never ever heard from it. I bought it directly from a distributor who could not get rid of them, so I got it for half the price, around 100 euro's. Best buy ever :)
@@kaldo_kaldo considering it was a off brand no name company yes, It could have lasted longer maybe but i replaced it
I feel betrayed like how Luke's father was Darth Vader
why would u spoil bro i habent watched the star wars
@@L39T Could be worst .... at least he didn't tell you that leila is his sister!
@@titiwin25 yeah you're right. if he told me that i'd commit a war crime!
Spoilers WTF >:C
I'm crying how could you spoil
As someone who is shopping for a new power supply this was very helpful and informative. Thanks guys!
funny you upload this. i was torn about which power supply to get, and ended up getting an 80+silver from one brand over a gold from another brand. everything else about the supplies said the silver one was superior, but i couldn't shake the feeling that i cut myself short rejecting the gold one. it really does have an inordinate impact on decision.
Only thing I will trust is GN certified :)
You guys are really good at what you do, so I don't think that will will be a far fetch idea.
The Gold in 80+ Gold means it's good because that's the same color as the stars they give you at the end of Candy Crush levels.
Great and informative video, back in the day I never bought a PSU with out an HardOCP review. We absolutely need a better way to control Quality.
Looks like you are really gaining traction on views and Subs . Congrats !
The Geo Metro would like a word with you about being absolutely crap quality and crap safety, but still getting great mileage
Yeah, one of my ex's had a Geo Metro. It survived a few cross country trips (Back and Fourth between Cincinnati, OH and Phoenix, AZ) It even handled the Apache Trail without falling off the cliff that ended so many 4WD vehicles. Not my first pick in cars, but that one did hold up on it's own.
I only use 110+ Rhodium Pro certified PSUs in my builds
free electricity generator go brrr
Yooo hook me up with your over-unity PSUs
I had an AGS power supply that my computer rebooted and a nice electronic burning smelled happened. I disconnected it and removed it from the case. Was crazy hot. Never felt a power supply that hot. And obviously that smell is a no go.
Rarely hear it mention on this type of videos....
But inefficient comes from heat and magnets field generated on the PSU and there is also noise and unstable voltage when power goes up and down due to the dynamic way a PC draw power (turbo boost + power off/iddle on components)
I'm a big fan of Seasonic Prime PSUs. They are expensive, but that's pretty much all I buy and have never had an issue.
We need a new standard, let's call it the "Steve Award" and its only criteria is that it doesn't destroy itself under standard use.
The "better than Dell" award?
I was actually considering a PSU upgrade recently. Thanks for this.
Very useful info thanks your doing the tech god's work