Why the Michael Jordan vs Lebron James Debate is over
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2024
- #michaeljordan #lebronjames #nba #thegoat
In this video we talk about Michael Jordan and Lebron James and why Michael Jordan is the goat.
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I swear there is no G.O.A.T debate. In 1988, Jordan was league MVP, Defensive Player of The Year, All NBA 1st team, All defense 1st team, Scoring Champ, Led the league in steals, Named All Star Team MVP, and won the Slam Dunk Contest.....ALL IN THE SAME YEAR!!!!
In 2013 lebron won mvp, finals mvp, a championship, was an all-star, 1st team all nba, 1st team all defense, and only came in second for dpoy because of media fatigue
Jordan is also only player to
Take home the;
MVP
FMVP
SCORING TITLE
1st team All Defense
NBA title
In the same season. He did it 5 times.
@@derekjuarez9762most insane thing is that there are other stats like Jordan is the only player ever that did a,b and c and he did it 3 times etc.
@@derekjuarez9762not to mention that he put 63 on Boston Celtics with Larry Bird and company
Bro said slam dunk contest like that was a feat😂😂😂
It was never debate between those who were old enough to have really seen both actually play throughout their careers
Jordan the GOAT 23
All day every day and twice on Sunday
those who saw both Wilt and Jordan play may disagree.
1980-2000 was the golden era of NBA basketball for me. From the time Magic and Bird entered the league, to around the end of MJ’s career. That was the time when the game itself was the best, and there were so many great, exciting players.
Like vince, Tracey and allen.
Agreed!
I’d extend that period to include the Shaqkobe threepeat.
True!@@tamirch1
That’s only because it helps your MJ case…..00s with Prime Kobe, young Bron, Tmac, AI, Shaq, Wade, Melo, those years were loaded
So true. Plus you didn't mention the eye test. To watch MJ is just poetic.
It was never a question, Jordan all day long…
Kareem is better than MJ
💯
@@samuraibeastwarrior2886the debate is between Jordan vs LeBron, I find it funny people always like to move the goal posts by bringing in other great names into the discussion to find ways to discredit Jordan. If you think Kareem is better than Jordan, that means by the same token he is also better than LeBron.
@@samuraibeastwarrior2886 Cap is the _only_ cat I'll even consider being in the GOAT convo.
@@HabsFan1978 Kareem IS better than LeBron.
It was never a debate
Jordan was 9 times all defensive first at the same time as scoring champ. That really shows how much of a beast he was on both ends.
Also steals champ at the same time as scoring champ.
Something that never gets mentioned. Jordan is top 5 in both totals and per game averages in both scoring and steals. Some players maybe both for one stat but not 2.
Jordan took it to another level in the finals especially the first 3.
91-- average 11.4 assists per game highest for anyone not Magic.
92 - - average an impressive 42% for 3s and in game 1 shot six 3s in a half which was a record for 18 years until Ray Allen the only person to shoot more in a half
93-- average 41 points per game highest ever.
Jordan has a higher peak which LeBron has not surpassed
AND PIPPEN ALWAYS TOOK THE TOUGHEST DEFENSIVE ASSIGNMENT KID!!
@@akvalues can't expect mj to do every thing dum Ass
@akvalues you showing ypu believe ANYTHING. You can't prove that cause it's a lie
@@akvalues lol. That’s his role. Pippen is there to wipe the floor.
6x FMVP, 6x all-first Defensive and 6x Scoring Title in all of their championship runs.
What does Pippen had?
@@akvalues😂 all throughout MJ's
career, ever heard of a time he rested on defense? Nope. Guarding the toughest assignment is overblown. Shaq was the toughest assignment in Orlando, did Pip guard Shaq? Point is they had different roles. Roles they accepted and excelled at. MJ's blocks and steals were because of Pippen? 😂
I agree with this. There was nothing as exciting as a kid than Jordan in the 90s. He was THE athlete. Even though I didn't like him back then because my team always lost to the Bulls, my friends and I still all tried to emulate him when we played basketball.
Older kids wasn't brain washed by "The Campaign".
Lakers lebron is clearly better than Wizards Jordan. You smoking crack?
When MJ played the NBA had rules. He's the only reason I watched basketball games as a kid. I hope his joints/etc are treating him well. Literally the only reason I watched basketball.
The nba has always had rules. What are you even talking about?
@@mirotick11 I was being hyperbolic. I was referring to the fact that they give a zero step, and even then they fail to call many travels/carries. Meanwhile, in every other basketball league you don't get away with that. That's partly why NBA players struggle in European leagues. NBA players can't hack it playing traditional basketball. I don't follow the NBA closely so I don't know exactly when they departed from traditional basketball rules, allowing traveling, gimping defenders, etc, but I do know that watching the "every travel gets worse" videos are hilarious.
@@nocturnalverse5739 NBA players do not struggle in European leagues. Generally, it's European players who would struggle in the NBA. They would be in the NBA if they don't struggle because that's where the money is. If you don't follow NBA closely, you're just being false statements based on some edited videos. Go read the NBA rulebook and watch a game. They're being called most of the time.
@@nocturnalverse5739 Could you give an example of NBA player struggling in Euro league? Here's your Euro league mvp in the NBA btw. Sasha Vezenkov. I think he's sitting in the bench.
For me it's about Jordans' aesthetic - he was simply a thing of beauty. He elevated the nature of the sport from 'just a game' to a theatrical performance that captivated the world.
My thoughts, exactly.
(but I have that as bonus argument, after everything else)
MJ looked like a dancer, I can watch him for hours. Flowing movements, hovering over the floor.
Lebron looks like a lumberjack.
sooooo true. I have no joy whatsoever watching Lebron. Not only Jordan. Prime T-Mac or Grant Hill was more fun and pleasing to watch too.
@@goktugblack And also Kobe was way more fun to watch than Lebron.
@@MikeVlcek Indeed sorry for forgetting the black mamba. Kobe's moves were so fluid and smooth too. I am 41 years old so I watched him from rookie to retirement. Constant streetball vibes. I miss him soooo much.
Ooooh yeah!!! I always thought of MJ's movements as cat-like, so quick, gracious, precise and killer.
I think you made a good point, defense. The thing is, if you got people chasing you down all game, you are goin to be tired at the end. I remember these games in the 90's, the players could barely stand on their feet and they had to push their limits in crunch time. In todays game, some players havent even broke a sweat yet, they are not pushing their limits by no means. That i think is the diference.
Well, there’s that and EPO injections are much more readily available.
The reason why got tired more back then because everyone played DEFENSE.
@@Lu1kang187XDI agree. Everyone seems to stand around now except for the guy on the ball and whoever is getting hunted by the pick and roll.
😅😅😅
@@justinsalzl1517 Well then. You aren't actually watching the games. 😅
Not just the hand check that the player now don't have to deal with, the fact that now the players can carry, and let's not mention the travels and the flopping. The aspects that have improved shooting and overall fitness of the players .
Let's put things in perspective, who had the next best season ever, Wilt is first? It's not Jordan.
Traveling in particular has gotten out of hand.
@reno419rockstar Jordan won six championships in a row. Did Wilt ever do that?
Michael Jordan: "But when you start the comparisons, I think it is what it is."
Translation: There is no comparison.
The GOAT debate seems to never end. As far as LeBron is concerned, if he is NOT the best Laker ever how can he be the GOAT? I'm absolutely sure that the vast majority of Lakers fans would rate Kobe, Magic and Kareem over LeBron any day.
I see your point, but the bit about Lebron not being the greatest Laker disqualifying him from the overall GOAT discussion doesn’t make sense. Of course he’s not the greatest Laker, he’s only played for them for a few years, late in his career. He wasn’t drafted and developed by them and played his whole career with them, so it’s not a reasonable comparison. Of course he’s not the greatest Laker, it’s not possible for him to be because of the relatively short time he’s played for them compared to the other greats. But that’s not what this discussion is about.
He’s 38. Jordan would never do anything lebron can do at this age. What about the heat or the cavaliers and if lebron went to the lakers on his prime he would be the best laker. Plus that is a really stupid argument that’s like saying Jordan can be the best because he wasn’t the best player the the Washington wizards. Lebron is All time scoring leader and has far more assists then Jordan being 6th on the leader point. And it must’ve been really easy to get defensive award when u can hand check and never let go of a person imagine if Lebron could hand check.
Fully agree with everything you said. Especially like the attention to "give them the lane for lay ups and dunks." To all the LeBron fans, go out and pull up your favorite clips. Then count the hands. Jordan was going through 10 hands sometimes. That's the whole team. LeBron goes up through nothing with some kind of flare to make it look good. There is no question Jordan is the GOAT. You can't just keep playing the first level of pacman or Tetris over and over to get the high score.
I think Pac man is just one level (and it could be played 255 times before crashing). Ms Pac man there existed two other level maps. But I agree, though some more three point plays has spread the court up a lot and makes driving easier than Jordan's low era of three point attempts.
Correct. Even more so, in the 80s and 90s the DEFENDERS were the ones with the elbows out. During Lebrons run, HE was the one with the elbowing. And still the defender gets the call.
From 1980-1995 the league average scoring was HIGHER than 1996-2013. HAHAHAHA. Everything you and all these casuals on this channel think about the 90's in completely wrong.
@@phillyphan1346 they just listen to all the heir-say and regurgitate it like it’s fact. People blow everything out of proportion anymore and want to live in nostalgia land
Lol there was only iso defense at that time ,but now there are double and triple teams so the defense was trash back then, I guess you haven't seen a single game just media narratives 😅
Everything you said was true in my opinion, I can't even watch the NBA like I used to in the 80's and 90's. Watching someone do a flop, which Lebron does, makes me change the channel. The game has changed and will never be as good as it once was.
Teams putting up 40 + three point shots per game makes it less entertaining too IMO.
@@billmorrison9068it's so boring to me that I never watch at all for two decades now. If I watch some, only during the latter part of the playoffs, usually at conference finals or the finals itself.
Even the highlight reel playing whilst MJ was talking is enough evidence. So glad I grew up watching Mike.
Thanks for sharing. You made some great points - great points that I've not heard anywhere else!
The rules have also changed to make it easier for ballhandlers to move around and drive to the basket. Rule changes generally favored offense over defense.
You do understand they moved the 3 point line 2ft closer in Jordan’s career and his % went up 10% imagine that
nowadays they have defensive 3 second violation, restricted area, gathering step, etc.
In the 60s for example defense was clearly favored. Every leaning in like Shaq did would been called an offensive foul. Ball handling rules were WAY stricter, every Iverson ball handle would been called a double dribble, every step back jumper would been called travelling.
Imagine playing w/o all that (and 3pt line) and still averaging 50-25 for a season or scoring 100 in a game w/o overtime, like Wilt did.
fun fact: He didn't get MVP that season - they gave it to Bill Russell.
a casual they never haf 3pts when j was drafted. that was like 6yrs after moron@@brianharron3435
@@brianharron3435Bruh…. What a stupid comment. How many years did they move the line closer during MJ’s career? Tell us
What would Pistol Pete look like today if he was allowed to dribble the way that these players do today?
People need to remember that he won three championships. With Bill Cartwright as his center. And his second three with Luke Longley as his center. LeBron James had about 30 All-Stars on his team.
Luc
And Jordan did not suffer from bad teams.
I'm as big of an MJ fan as there is, but the second three-peat team was absolutely stacked. Let's not be silly.
@@bradleyboyer9979with arguably the best coaching staff of all time. People like pretend that he didn’t literally get another 3peat as soon as he took over the Lakers like it was nothing
@@bradleyboyer9979 Respectfully , I agree with you about MJ's team, but Lebron is a ring chasing primadonna.....right there with KD. He might be too old now, but if Lebron wanted to "prove" something he should (more like should've) gone to a team on par with the Wizards. He would still have his rings, and hundreds of millions, but what could he have done with that type of squad.
@@bradleyboyer9979 If Michael Jordan played with the talent that Lebron James had throughout his career it would not be Is fair for anyone else in the league at that time.. or anytime. It's borderline unfair that Lebron James has as much talent as he has the past 20 years. And it's also a crying shame that Lebron James is negative in championship wins VS appearances with the amount of talent that he's had over his career.
Would you rather have Kyrie and rondo or Ron harper and BJ Armstrong
Would you rather have Dwayne Wade or Scotty Pippin?
Would you rather have Chris Bosh and Anthony Davis or Horace grant and Dennis Rodman?
Would you rather have Big z Kevin love Anderson or Tony Kukoc Luke Longley and bill Cartwright?
The only one I would question here is Rodman n Horace grant.
@@bradleyboyer9979no it wasn’t smh stack with who?rodman…..old not in his prime,pippen ……smh moving on…..Kukoc good player but not an all star level player and not a threat,hence why they lost in 94 without mj,Harper old and out his prime,Kerr 7 ppg,so where was this stack team u speak of?the only reason that old ass bulls team won 3 more chips was bcuz they have a single inhuman player named Michael jordan that’s all they needed smh stack team my ass
Not only did he average 30-37 ppg, he did it without ever averaging more than 3.6 3 point attempts per game. In his 14 years he averaged 3 or more 3 point attempts per game only 3 times.
Lebron has only averaged less than 3 attempts in 2 seasons. For their careers, Jordan averaged 1 3 point attempt every 2 games and Lebron is putting up 4.6 attempts per game.
You failed to mention Jordan shooting 3-4 more field goal attempts and three more free-throw attempts. Weird how you mentioned the threes but not those parts. I'm a Jordan defender, but not a fan of people who tell half-truths.
@@michaelmaccrazythey tend to do that. They also forget to mention the Pete Myers Bulls. Doesn't getting replaced by D-league player mean anything?
@@michaelmaccrazyand you also failed to mention that Jordan played in a tougher to score era were they actually played defense and had hand checking to make it harder to score as well as he was double and triple team most of his career so if you're going to tell the truth tell the whole story🤷♂️
@@chrisprievo4582 what you said was absolutely false. Pace of play and points was similar when Jordan played. You didn’t mention that there is way more talent abd depth at the SF position during Lebron’s career than SG in Jordan’s career.
You’re trying so hard to kiss his ass that you’re straight up lying. Don’t confuse physicality for skill. As a matter of fact, I would argue that was the reason why it was more physical, because they needed to compensate for a lack of skill. 🤷🏾
@@michaelmaccrazybecause he scores outside not inside people dont get shit everysingle time thats why he has less fg% which is more impressibe because he played in more tougher era than Bron
You should mention that Jordan in his second return at age 38,39 had almost 30 points average in his last 10 games before injuring his knee. After operation, he couldn't get in that shape in his next and last season, where he had 20 ppg.
Yeah we also can’t pretend that LeBron took the same beating that anyone did in the 80s and 90s because it would be called foul in most cases. LeBron is just as confident when driving as Jordan and would go toe to toe with people trying to knock his lights out, and he would probably not be in the same condition at 38-40 as he is now.
Hes got a high avg because he is literally the owner of the team he played for. Everybody had to pass him the ball even though his fg% is shit. It’s not hard to avg 30 when you have the green light to shoot every possession
@@mirotick11 In 2000 2001 they were on 19 63 record, after his comeback and slow start in the beginning of 2001 02 (2-9) season, they were on 27 26 before injury (more points he scored, team played better), they were playoff contender, after injury, they lose next next 9 of 11 games and dropped out of playoffs compeltely, so i guess it's not that he scored because ownership, team was lot better with him on the court.
@@mirotick11 lol, he had to give up his position as GM to play, league didnt allow that...
20 ppg with a broken knee at nearby 40 after 3 years of non professional sports ... this is crazy. Most players today would kill for an average of 20ppg in their best years ...
Bro i been over this debate 10 years ago.... only bron fans thinks this is a debate still
Well at least whenever he opened his mouth n called himself the goat. The real debate that should always go down was MJ or Kobe what it used 2 be b4 ppl tried 2 silence the Mamba's legacy after his passing. There can be no Jordan vs lebron cuz lebron dnt clear Kobe. Then u got the 80s guys gotta remember so 2 me sry lebron but u are realistically ranked somewhere 10 to 15 which is still amazing all time great players but that wouldn't be good enough 4 him.
@@relicdad88 no one tried to silence the debate since he passed. No one even talked about him number 2 until he passed and everyone started acting PSYCHO cuz he’s not even close to #2. I’ve got MJ the goat but LeBron is miles ahead of Kobe. Kobe without Shaq has 2 titles and more missed shots than anyone in history. Then you consider that LeBron AVERAGES more points, assists, rebounds, steals, blocks, and has a better defensive rating PER GAME than Kobe also if you want advanced stats better PER, better +/-, better win share ratings than Kobe , averages more game winning buzzer beaters in the playoffs but you fanboys keep saying how someone who was literally worse at everything is better. Hell, if we wanna play like that, little Timmy down the road balls out, he’s gotta be better than Kobe! Cuz… well, I like him more and he’s mentally tough!!! He’s got that tough “Timmy mentality “!!!
The fact that it was a debate 10 years ago when lebron was not even 30 yet should tell u how good lebron is lol
@@yvngmt_ there is no debate bro.... you see it every time they make a poll between the 2 it's always gone be MJ even though I didn't need the poll to let me know that in the first place
@@yvngmt_lol same goes to mj he was already considered in the goat conversation in his 87-88 season just 3 years in the nba. Man has dpoy, scoring title on 35ppg, mvp, steals leader all in ONE season dude was a monster
MJ averaged 30 for a season several times, averaged 40 during the playoffs once. He also had 10 scoring titles, not mention all those rings. I’m in my 50’s I watched those games live, so I’m not just quoting stats 😁
Jordan would avg 50+ in today’s soft NBA 👊
Jordan averaged 30 ppg for his career. That’s including his Wizard years
@@kevinwheesysouthward9295that’s why he’s the goat
No way
He averaged 40 in a 3 game series lol
When the NBA took centers away from the paint that made the game way easier to score , new nba watchers don’t remember there was no such thing as 3 in the key, defensive 3 second violation. In those days the defenders could just sit in the paint and wait on players to drive and contest it.
You are totally right, kids today don't understand what good interior defense used to look like. Scoring like Michael Jordan used to against interior defense like that is something Lebron could never even dream of doing.
PS: On defense Dennis Rodman torches everyone
Delusional 😭
The main point is MJ had the most pressure, always wanted the ball in crunch time and was unbelievably clutch. 6 for 6 in finals when your the face of the league is just utter dominance. Opposing players feared him. There was an agression with finesse that was beautiful. Lebron is like a football player who decided to play basketball but he has come up short repeatedly. MJ is the Goat and will forever be when you include his cultural impact and sneaker brand.
MJ had the most pressure 😂😂😂omg
@@Anonymous-gy4lpHe surely did.
@@Anonymous-gy4lp ...and yet, Lebron is the (literal) nailbiter.
Is that why John Paxson hit the finals winning 3 in 1993? Steve Kerr hit the Finals winning 3 in 1997? Do any of you Jordashians ever say anything that true??
You couldn't put a hand on MJ in the 90s, was an automatic whistle, everyone knew that and spoke about it frequently in that era and it was because of all the Marketing and a new way to promote the game which had never been seen before, so the league protected MJ, he always had the most talent and was the favorite going into the finals unlike Lebron who was the underdog a majority of his finals appearances. It's just silly how facts are omitted when discussing MJ. He maybe the greatest offensive player next to Wilt and Kareem of all time, but is not the goat. That's just silly! Wilt or Kareem hands down. Changed the rules because of Wilt and changed the rules for guards is a big difference.
I've never said this but I remember that I wanted Jordan to win 2 chips but wanted Ewing, Barkley and Reggie to win too. But J is just annihilated them. When I watched those games I felt for the other teams. MJ is just the Goat.
I felt the same way too... I wanted to see Ewing, Barkley, and Reggie all make it all too.. after I thought it was the Knicks year tho and then watched the Bulls completely destroy them like it was a statement in the playoffs, I gave up ever doubting MJ and the Bulls ever again.
I’m a new subscriber. Your content is usually spot on.
If you want to talk about if jordan could have survived in the 3 point era? Think about this. They were comparing to clyde during the portland vs chi town series. They asked michael that clyde is better 3 point shooter than you and how he felt about that. Jordan said "Clyde is a better 3 point shooter than I choose to be". The next game Jordan set the 3 point record in a playoff game at the time. Jordan would adapt to anything the new game presented and would have became one of the best. Michael was also more ahtletic he had a vertical 4 inches higher than lebron, a 4.3 40 on a hand timer, and a way quicker first step with way more agility. When they do test on athletes the one metric that correlates to starting position is vertical leap and jordan has the highest vertical leap in NBA history.
I wish they kept a stat on how many points were scored by the other team while Lebron complained to the refs!!! 🤔
How about while he camped at the offensive end of the court waiting for a long pass?
He's been doing this a lot the past years. @@umakegoodcookies
MJ never had the foul call problem because you couldn't touch him in the 90s! 😅😅😅😅
You nailed it, man! A lot of people are parroting what they hear from others or read on Instagram. MJ achieved way more in almost half as much time as LBJ - on the personal and the team level! LBJ had a lot more help than MJ, played a lot longer and still won less. It´s not even close!
It wasn't long after Jordan retired that I stopped following the NBA . That's how entertaining he was to watch. No one since him has been that well rounded as a player and able to make key plays
Regarding longevity, there were huge leaps in sports medicine/training since 80s/90s…
It's MUCH harder to score when the floor is more cluttered, the paint is defended by Bigs, and the perimeter Defense is physical vs. playing in an open floor with the Bigs on the perimeter, and perimeter defenders can't touch you. Today's style/rules in place cater to perimeter players, where as Jordan's era was inside-out Big Man oriented.
Yep...facts. But the typical basketball casual doesn't understand how that open spacing makes it easier to scoring... especially when players shoot more 3's today. Bigs back then could stay close to the basket
The only casual here are guys that don’t recognize how much the game has advanced today. This comment and other comment sections are riddled with ridiculousness. The reason why the box isn’t as jammed as it was in those times is because of the evolution of the three point shot. Yesterdays defense cannot deal with the todays offense as effectively. There’s much more of a necessity for perimeter defenders, that’s why “bugs” today are smaller because the emphasized is placed on agility.
@@inno195 Only a casual will think shooting more 3's makes the game advanced. And we also said bigs could protect the paint more.... that's why players like lebron get easy points in the paint because of no rim protector. But what is even more ridiculous is the notion that players in 80/90's couldn't have adapted to the way the game is played today.... especially since players train totally different than before.
@@cochise4390 All you did was call me a casual and say my argument was ridiculous. You didn't provide a counter argument, lol. You're just a superfan of Jordan. It's okay, I bet you have 6 of his shoes XD.
You can cry about it all you want but what I said is factual. The paint is more open today due to the fact that the 3-point shot is more of a threat. Any coach that's been in the game for a while will tell you that. If your defenders have to stretch over 30ft, yeah, no shit a layup is easier lol.
You don't know what you're talking about.
@@inno195 Well if you had some reading comprehension skills I pointed to the fact of how lebron gets his easy baskets. Defense rules are also different, that's why people that "actually" played in the NBA say MJ would average 40 plus. And like I said, just because that's how they played in 80/90's doesn't mean they couldn't adapt to today's game. And shooting more 3's doesn't make the game more advanced, something I also said.... just makes the floor wide open, in addition no true rim protector. There's a reason why MJ has posterized a lot of centers and not get easy layups like players today.
Something that I don't think a lot of people can wrap their heads around, especially if they weren't old enough to witness it, is just how much Jordan stood out from his competition. He was special and everyone knew it, even if you hated him. So, of course, you can find some bitter old heads who will try to downplay how good he was and make it seem like they could have beat him, but the fact remains, they didn't. MJ would show you something EVERY GAME to show how gifted he was. I can admit, that would be hard to believe had I not witnessed it.
Comparatively, LBJ has to have a propaganda machine running at all times to ensure his legacy stays in tact. There is a lot of good to talk about with LeBron, but being constantly reminded how he is the GOAT is something that just wasn't necessary when MJ was an active player.
you mean 90s competition. 80s competition seemingly was more stiff. mutliple dynasties in the 80s.. The bulls were the ONLY dynasty in the 90s. KNicks and Jazz and Pacers were good but c'mon.. It wasnt like the Celtics vs the Lakers vs the 76ers vs the Pistons. Jordan is the still the GOAT with Larry Bird for me, but lets call at as it is.
I Agree With These Comments 1000%
💯 and actions always speak louder than words. Jordan never claimed to be the GOAT or demanded his respect, his game and peers did that for him. Although LBJ is a great player, he's such a phoney with his antics and pretending to be an intellect.
No player has a bigger propaganda machine, when it comes to being anointed the GOAT as Kobe.
@@HabsFan1978
tell me about Kobe’s intellect, now…
🍿🍿
Exactly... the defense today can't compare to the old-school ways.
You can see how lazy todays players are when is time to defend.
Great show!
Great FACTS!
Great Energy!
Great Vids.
As far as overall scoring champ, not only should LeBron be happy Jordan retired twice, he should also thankful for MJ’s time off for his broken foot, and for “wasting” his time in college
Man this really ticks me the wrong way when people, especially LeBron fans, worship accumulated stats so much. There has to be a more fair comparison for all those greats back in the day who could not join the league at age 18.
Add 7000 points to Jordan for the years he played in college, he goes right up to 40k already.
His retirement made his career even more dazzling in my opinion so I'm not even counting the years he wasn't playing.
And imagine what would happen if MJ and Kareem played in this era? They would average 40+ ppg year in and year out. Easy.
And that Kareem’s played four years in college. What if he played four additional years in the NBA?
JUST REMEMBER MICHAEL, DAVID STERN INSTALLED ILLEGAL DEFENSE SO U CAN SCORE. (WILT GOAT CHAMBERLAIN)
@@niamsidri It's pretty much all Lebron fans have to hold on to at this point, Jordan's retirements and calling them a detriment or a lack of commitment and praising Lebron's longevity in a weaker era that made it easier.
Bro this has been my argument for the longest. Take everything in consideration to your point and to add, the 2nd year was a prime year. He averaged 37.1 year 3 then retired at 29 years old. Those years were crucial and then forced to retire again before the short strike year in 1999 which they for sure could have beaten that Spurs team for another ring. These people be foolish, especially when they speak of most points in NBA history. Bro I love Bron but he has that by default 😂
Jordan has TWO three-peats with Bill Cartwright, Bill Wennington, & Luc Longley as his starting Center when Hakeem, Shaq, David Robinson, Ewing, Mourning, etc. were tormenting the league as dominant big men. We barely even have that many great prime bigs in today's NBA, but you see how these guys have dominated the NBA within the last 3-4 years.
The league has changed. It’s not a big man’s league due to the 3.
@@jeremy6528 Our last 4 MVPs have been big men. This year's MVP will almost certainly be Joker or Embiid.
Jordan didn’t face Hakeem or Robinson in the finals so…
I've never been in that situation, but I agree it would probably be harder to do a crossover while the defender is penetrating you.
underrated comment 😂
the way jordan floated, hung, levitated in the air, had an extra second or two just up there while everyone else would be coming down, nothing like it before, during or after, just one of a kind.
Lebron jumped higher than Jordan and he has his head above the rim many times, there is never a clip of Jordan jumping that higher facts
Lebron jumped higher than Jordan and he has his head above the rim many times, there is never a clip of Jordan jumping that higher facts
There was never a debate. MJ is the undisputed GOAT!!!
MJ was not only vastly more fundamentally sound and vastly more skilled, MJ went to work Every. Single. Night.
Yes 9 seasons playing all 82 games pounding it every night. No days off Because your koochie hurts like Lebron who played all 82 games once. Jordan took much harder shots and literally got pounded while doing it. There wasnt a damn foul called every time he got touched. Like girlie Lebron, who also shoots 3s as a power forward, and every time you get touched you go to the free throw. The scoring is all bullshit. Jordan and Kareem got mauled all the time and still showed up every night. Hurt didn’t matter sick didn’t matter. Let Lebron try to run that weka crap threw Karl malone who would knock him on his asss. No foul Just part of the game.
@@Eye4Skillz WTF are you guys talking abut- LBJ played more games- has more minutes... never took 2 years off... wou guys are out of your mind!
Lol Jordan Ain't even top 20 in minutes played. You can't even say he really won 6 in a row because he QUIT took a year long vacation and then came back. He didn't take games off but a whole season.
@@zetsutsuletsu2034 exactely!
@@antonquirgst2812 Lebron obviously has played more minutes than anyone, but they are referring to minutes per game. Jordan average 38.3 minutes per game throughout his career (LeBron 38.0) and this includes his Washington Wizards stint. Jordan played 10 seasons and missed 1 game and averaged 37 minutes a game at the age of 39. LeBron hasn't averaged over 38 minutes since 2011. There is no doubt that LeBron keeps his body physical fit more than anyone ever, but he's only played a full 82 games once in his career. That allows your body to rest. Rest wasn't an option during Jordan's era. Fans would lose their mind if they paid to see Jordan play and he didn't show up because he wanted a day to rest. Taking 2 years off is actually a detriment if you've every played basketball or any athletic sport. Do you think if LeBron took off for 2 years and came back, that would help him rest and have a longer career? Take off 2 years and see how your body feels when you come back to playing competitively, or take off 3 years at the age of 34 and come back and try playing. I am not diminishing Lebron's durability and knocking that he takes a few games off, that helps your body rest, but retiring from a sport for 1+ years may be mental rest, but certainly does not benefit you, at all, physically.
Exactly! Handling while the defence is pressuring you is a whole different skillset
I have to agree with your comments been watching basketball for 45 years! Keep up the great work!
The debate is media manufactured for ratings. Its pretty disgusting. When lebron retires he will fall down the list and Jordan will remain #1. Lebron aint better than kobe, magic, bird, kareem, or Hakeem, let along Jordan
What kkkkk
Yet if Jordan wasn't there Karl Malone would have all those scoring titles and two rings, so was he as good as hakeem and better than Lebron whom would be been shut out of two late rings were Jordan, A much better player, was contesting those rings?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
100%. It's only a relevant conversation because he is still an active player. Once he's retired for a few years, he will still be regarded as a great player but forgotten about.
@Spongemonkey26 The NBA all time scoring leader will be forgotten about?????????😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 50 years from now, when a 10 year old asks his father "Daddy, who scored the most points in nba history?" his father will say LEBRON JAMES, and the kid, having never watched either of them play will say, OH, so I guess LEBRON JAMES WAS THE GREATEST
As always damn good video. MJ put his stamp on the league like no one before and was the key to raising the NBA to where it is today. Aside from his dominance on both sides of the floor, this is what makes him the GOAT for me. He (and the Dream Team) made the NBA into a global phenomenon. There would be no Kobe, LeBron, Luka, Jokic, Gainnis without him. He was there perfect guy for the perfect moment.
You totally overlook the impact and greatness of Magic Johnson and Larry Bird. Jordan's making the NBA more of a global phenomenon is irrelevant to his greatness as a player. Great as he was, he is also the most overhyped player of all time. That was a label stuck on him in the 90s after all the 1980s stars were gone and they needed a new face of the league.
Sound like what’s happening with LeBron. Overrated and overhyped.
@@CurtisT1019 JUST REMEMBER MICHAEL, DAVID STERN INSTALLED ILLEGAL DEFENSE SO U CAN SCORE. (WILT GOAT CHAMBERLAIN)
@billmorrison9068 I'm an old ass who lived through it nobody back then called MJ overrated. Every single one of his contemporaries constantly talked about how he was the best they've ever seen
CZcams is getting almost unusable with ads. Commercials every 3 minutes.
Great vid, I suffered through but geez.
Never been a debate. Not even close.
Last night, an opposing player said he was going to lock up Lebron. Dared him to do something about it. And what does Lebron do? Scores 18, his team gets blown out, and he ends up sitting out the entire forth quarter.
If that isn't enough to show you the difference between Jordan and Lebron, I don't know what will.
Yeah? Last night LeBron faced a guy who "pokes bears" and LeBron hit dagger after dagger and the Lakers needed every bit of it. All while Anthony Davis couldn't stop Alperen Sengun from driving to the rim. Day to Davis didn't even have his hands up despite being right in front of Sengun.
yeah, Jordan never had a bad game à 38 years old... smh
@@lepatientzero9637that's a straight up lie
@@557deadpool I was being sarcastic :)
By the time Jordan was Lebrons age he was a shell of himself playing for the wizards
I don't remember ever watching MJ flop. I won't say absolutely, no flops, but none come to mind. I can't even count how many LJ flops I've seen.
Distinctly, I remember Reggie Miller running directly at MJ and pushing him fully away and Jordan didn't flinch. I remember watching Jordan dragging up to 3 defenders (literally) to the hoop and not cry a tear. I remember Shaq outright flattening MJ and he merely kneeled for 3 seconds.
The differences are immense
On defense no, but on offense? Michael complained about ticky-tack fouls all the time trying to get an edge. In the 90s NOBODY got to the line more times on questionable foul calls than MJ. Did he do embarrassing flops throwing himself across the floor to trick the referee? No.
Jordan wasn't allowed to be touched for a decade after the Piston's series, invented super star calls and crying to the ref instead of playing. LeBron sells his calls because the ref allow fouls that should be Tech's just like they did with Shaq because you can't call shit every time down the court. They stated the shit in multiple interviews.
I do bro but keep the lebron hate going
Flopping wasn't even a thing back then
@@maximos905 yup Vlade Divac brought it over from European soccer and the league has never been the same.
The biggest point I see when comparing the two is players were straight up scared to play against Jordan. You don’t see that with LeBron.
The algorithm decided to recommend this subject to me. I don't even follow basketball, but I love the video. Hahaha
Nicely put but u left one thing out. So Yea LeBron made it to all those Finals cause he played in super Weak Eastern Conference in that era.
But on top of that he also had to recruit the top players in that same Conference. Wade in Miami , Bosh in Toronto & even Rey Allen from Celtics.
The way you explained it is how I think about the comparison. I tell lebron fans this “Jordan NEVER lost in the NBA Finals! LeBron lost MORE than he’s won! LeBron wears #6 to match the rings on Jordans hand”
People also Wana claim Jordan had a monster team, no he didn't. They all developed, unlike LeBron who wants all the all stars to join his team to win a title, jordna would've stayed with a regular team cus it's a challenge, and he would've won
An excellent point you made about Dirk Nowitzki's title run. It waa definitely more special than anything Ledouche has done 👍
Agree. Nowitzki as only all star in the team to win the championship, this was a miracle and a strong lead of him.
Very well said. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
It was never a debate to begin with.......NO ONE IS ON THE SAME LEVEL AS THE BLACK CAT , GOD IN GYM CLOTHE , BLACK JESUS , HIS AIRNESS, AIR JORDAN, THE ORIGINAL #23 , GOAT OF THE 90s
I think players like Jordan and Barkley (who was doubled teamed all the time) would average 5 or 6 points more a game. We also have to remember that these are not 2 completely different era's. A lot of players that Jordan played against like Kobe, Shaq, Duncan etc. crossed over into Lebron's era and were very impactful players. With bigs out shooting 3's this would open the lanes up even more for a player like Jordan.
5-6? You meant like 20? How many times was jordan fouled back in the day with the fouls not being called? Nowadays you breath too close and is a foul
Anyone that thinks Lebron CCP James > Michael Jefrey Jordan, should be tried for treason. After that we talk about in-game abilities
@@pillopillo297right. Jordan cashin in 20 minimum ot the ft line in today's era easily. Let alone the abuse he's doin in the paint with no real bigs in the league not named Joker, Joel & Greek. Honorable mention to Wemby. Kid shows promise.
And from the interviews I've seen, the players who played both LeBron and Jordan say Jordan is the best. Vince Carter, Ray Allen, Meta World Peace, Shaq, Tracy McGrady.
@@zmonkey111 Lebron is a great player, but he does not have intensity of Jordan, does not have the killer instinct of Jordan. People forget that while Jordan was leading the league in scoring, some of those years he was also the best defender at his position. To have that kind of energy to lock down the other guy and put the team on your shoulder is amazing.
Lots is good here, but you’ve got some unchecked stuff in there as well. For example, saying it was atypical for guards to win DPOY back in the day. I’m the 1980’s, 4/7 awards went to guards.
The hand check rule was the big change that turned the game into a scorers game and turned it soft in comparison. And this is why Jordan and Kobe were so good they could turn to drive to make a player commit to stop and pull that 15 foot fade away all day long.
The thing is LBJ played in the prime Kobe years but you guys choose not to respect him...and quite honestly he gave Kobe that work just like Kobe gave MJ that work.
Lol Lebron played against Kobe and had winning record 16-6 and has more ppg head to head so don't act Lebron was a new player 😂
@@gowthamvarmadantuluri6385 Catching Kobe on the back end of his career is your big gotcha?
@@Pystdammit Kobe was never great , Lebron is highschool is already greater than Kobe ever was so there is no catching, he was far better Kobe the moment he entered the NBA
The main reason why ball handling skills seem so much better today is because players can do things that wouldn’t have been able to do in past eras. You put these current players back in the era’s prior to the late 90’s, the ball handler wouldn’t be able to get down the court without whistles blowing.
Truthfully, the ball handling is better today. The actual reason for this is the existence of position camps & year round organized competition. A guy born in the late 1960’s had access to none of these. If Lebron had born in 1968, he’d be about 20 lbs lighter, and would have been a PF. Then we’re really not having this debate.
@@lutherandross3165 but is the ball handling better really better? while i agree that it is better today, what i mean by my question is why is it better. back in the 60's you basically and to dribble the ball with your hand on top, by the 90's it came down to around the side of the ball. today you can basically put your hand directly under the ball which gives you even more control. would someone like kyrie (probably the best handles in the game) be able to do the moves he does if he could only put his hand on top of the ball? not a chance in hell. would someone like pistol Pete be a better ball handler if he could place his hand pretty much under the ball like kyrie does? hell yes. the way the handle the ball today would be called constantly for travel or double dribble 30 years ago.
Yea a lot of traveling, carrying, and double dribbling these days
@@lutherandross3165 In 60s for example every Alan Iverson ball handle would been called a double dribble, every James Harden step back would been called travelling, every Shaq lean in would been called an offensive foul.
In my opinion the debate was over in 1962.
@@lutherandross3165 Pistol Pete went through plenty of dribbling camps. Complements of his nut case dad. He even had one drill where Pete had to dribble from out of the back seat window, as his dad drove around the neighborhood.
LeFlop barely makes it in to the Top 10
The longer he plays, the further he slides down peoples top 10 list
Jordan averaged 30 pts per game (35 in 1988) in a league that was more physical and defensively oriented. In today's NBA he would score easily over 40, with the higher pace he would increase his shot attempts per game, therefore more points. He also was very good with fastbreaks both in defense and offense, so I don't think he would have issues with today's style of play at all, he actually would be benefited.
On 30 shit attempts real tough
Hand checking changed a lot of these attitudes on defense, if that were still allowed things would be really different.
Wait as far as the hand checking rules I think that it gotten nastier in the 80's and 90s even more than in the 60s and 70s when you still had Russell Wilt, Dr J, Reed Walton Baylor Thompson and West still around just saying 🤔
@@castlejrichardson6308 what I mean is that LeBron would do a lot better no matter what the rules are, but in Wilt's words: "they changed the rules to make it EASIER on [Mike] but they changed them to make it HARDER on [Wilt]". Mike did as well as he did only because they got rid of hand checking. When the Pistons and everybody else was allowed to be rough with Mike he was a regular season scoring champion and until he got Pip and the rest of his championship crew he was "destined" to go down as a selfish scoring champion, just like they're trying to paint Melo (I think he's disrespected, his game is legendary, same as I think Mike's game is overhyped because of the chips, he wouldn't have won even a single one without Scottie)
To say: Mike got good teammates, and he did it in the 90s when the league overall was easier. Take a bottom 5 team today and pit it against the 90s Bulls teams and it'd be maybe 60-40 in the Bulls' favor, but no more than that. No way that Bulls team goes 72-10 in today's NBA, no way. Modern defense would shut that garbage midrange pure triangle crap down in an instant. Just look at the squads that poor Melo got stuck with in NYC with Phil Jackson - that was pure 90s offense transplanted 15-20 years later. It don't work.
In terms of sportsmanship:
- MJ doesn't cry to the ref to get a decisive foul advantage
- MJ isn't the last player to cross the median line of the court consistently, even in his later years
- MJ doesn't thrive on travels not being called on him
- MJ doesn't flop as much
- MJ still has great FG% outside of layup and dunks
- MJ doesn't need a team full of all-star killers to get chips
No contest.
Look, Mike is my GOAT as well, but some of this is pure cap.
1. MJ absolutely belittled refs when he didn't get the calls. He would yell at them like they were children. MJ is the only player I've ever seen make contact with a ref and not get ejected.
2. MJ got away with tons of travel. He constantly would lift his pivot foot before dribbling.
@@xaviervega468 agreed.
The super star treatment started with Magic and Bird.
Magic being able to carry/ Palm the 🏀, and Larry got a lot of Ticky tac fouls in his favor as well.
Especially starting in the mid eighties.
No money for the league if either of them fouls out.
@@xaviervega468 dude u said a lot of 🧢 that u dnt have any proof of 🤡
MJ is better than Lebron but points 1 and 3 here are false. MJ constantly whined and yelled at refs to a embarassing degree - he was also one of the first player to really palm the ball and everyone said he carried in the 80's. Look at the dribbling style of guys like Isiah Thomas who got there just before Jordan. Jordan carries more.
Facts and Jalen rose criteria killed it💪🏿💪🏿
I'm a huge Jordan fan, I grew up watching Jordan and rank him above Lebron but I've also watched old Wilt Chamberlain games and am amazed at how rarely he's in these conversations as if the NBA started in 1974 or something. After watching Wilt I can't call MJ the undisputed GOAT, they're either tied or it's Wilt. Wilt is probably the best athlete I've seen play any sport ever!
Rebounds/Game:
Rank Player RPG
1. Wilt Chamberlain* 22.89
2. Bill Russell* 22.45
.....
10. Elgin Baylor* 13.55
11. Dennis Rodman* 13.12
Blocks weren't recorded as a stat when Wilt played but watching footage of 128 games that were recorded he averaged over 8 per game....
Blocks/game:
1. Mark Eaton 3.50
2. Manute Bol 3.34
3. Hakeem Olajuwon* 3.09
4. David Robinson* 2.99
5. Elmore Smith 2.90
6. Alonzo Mourning* 2.81
7. Dikembe Mutombo* 2.75
8. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 2.57
9. Shawn Bradley 2.55
10. George Johnson 2.46
11. Patrick Ewing* 2.45
To say Lebron is physically the best ever in the NBA is false, Wilt was 7'1" with at least a 48" vertical and a sub 2 minute half mile and a 4.6 second 40 yard dash and would routinely beat the other Lakers including Jerry West in races up and down the court, he had a 50' triple Jump 6'6" high jump, threw the shot put 56 feet, benched over 500lbs and the only reason he wasn't a wide receiver in the NFL is because he chose basketball. He also dislocated a guys shoulder blocking their dunk and manhandled the strongest players in an era where basketball was much more physical. Wilt is the best defensive player the NBA has ever had by a wide margin, he averaged over 50 points/game 1 season before they told him to pass the ball more. MJ had the best moves, most acrobatic and exiting to watch and was a good defensive player especially in steals and performed at a super human level when the pressure was on, he was a sensational clutch player and he made his teammates better which can't be overlooked. It's difficult to compare eras because the game changes but I can't say either Wilt or Jordan is not the GOAT, all I can say is Lebron is in 3rd place and can't be ranked equally or above either of them. I will concede 1 thing to LeBron, he's the best 38 year old to play in the NBA, it's amazing how well he has aged and how fit he is in his late 30s, as a 47 year old I can't imagine doing any sport with such intensity in my late 30s, he's the longevity GOAT, 20 seasons of abusing his body is incredible, doctors are better now and we do stem cell stuff but still he impresses me with this.
This is probably the best comment here! Love to see Wilt get his respect, crazy how easily he gets overlooked despite how insanely dominant and athletic he was. Also appreciate that you mentioned Lebron’s longevity, that’s definitely his greatest asset.
both wilt and russell are in my top 5
I never understood why it's more impressive to lose in the finals rather than lose to the championship team earlier in the playoffs.
Probably because you had to go through more opponents to reach the finals which demonstrates a teams strengths better than getting knocked out in the 1st round or something.
Another few notes on rules, many things offenses can do now were quickly called as moving screens, carrying or traveling in MJs era. Yes, defenses must cover more ground than ever before, but offenses have so many more advantages that it's basically a joke to compare. Offensive players may have more in their bag, and many shoot better, but if the defense isn't allowed to guard you...
Also, Jordan didn't change teams in order to win a Championship.
The only people I have heard say Lebron is better are young people who never watched Jordan play or understood 90's basketball. It was a much more defensive and intense game.
I agree Shawn, thanks.
your best video so far, by a mile
One also has to take into account that as the years have gone on, what is allowed as it relates to dribbling is becoming more and more relaxed. I saw a video about this going through each decade and it is crazy how much the game has changed when it comes to what is allowed in the NBA.
I agree - but I would love to see the video as well. Can you post a link?
Just watch Bob cousey. He's one of the best ball handlers in basketball history. But what was legal then makes what he does look like shit comparatively to today. By those rules, literally every single time a person put the ball on the floor, today, it would be a turnover.
czcams.com/video/6IPXSqOhykg/video.htmlsi=beTe_1wnliPuxiC0
If one had watched the 90s NBA, you saw how MJ dominated the courts. He walked out (if played in slow motion) like someone had to be destroyed at the end of the game. And that is why I hated him so much but with respects. I was a big time John Stockton fan and you know why. It was MJ's performance to prove he is the GOAT and no need to "self claim" at all. He might not be the "Chosen" one, but he worked out to become the ONE and his impact to Basketball as a sport is incomparable.
The debate was already over in 1962.
Omg! Thank you so much! You just gave me more reasons and proof that Jordan is better. I'll be forwarding this video to Jordan haters and LeBron lover's.
Lol it ended after the 2011 NBA Finals 😂😂😂😂😂
MJ was so dominant in his era he won the championship 6 times in a row, if you count the seasons he actually played in. For those of us who grew up watching him, and who have been watching the game since he retired, no one has come close to his level of dominance. From a historical perspective moving forward, I would argue Steph Curry has fundamentally changed the game of basketball with his shooting ability and has had a more profound effect on the game and the way it now played than Lebron James. And Curry did it at 6’3” 190lbs. Michael Jordan is on another level. He was indomitable!
Uhm. He played in '95, during the season. He entered late, but still.
Everything else: agreed. :)
@@Zett76 I should’ve clarified “full seasons” 🤓
Well I'm agreed of what you said, but another player that was close to MJ was Kobe Briant I'm not saying the Kobe was better, but Kobe would make things difficult for Jordan.
And very difficult
So dominant cause of trash competition
Aww,man. Love ya Shawn David. Couldnt put it better myself. I'm 37yrs,caught alotta MJ growing up...wow,the NBA then..anyways,appreciate the content,MR.!
Don't recall Jordan ever saying that he needed more help in order to succeed.
Ever.
You're totally right as always, Sean. Keep up with your great videos.
This is very simple for me. I wanna be like Mike. I never ever wanna be like LeBron.
Totally agree 100%! Great video!
BTM you are 100 percent right watching MJ in my era MJ all day lebron is a beast but MJ all day I remember going to the park and try to imitate his moves
There will never be another Jordan, the standards of professional basketball or too low. The standards that Jordan were held by were the reason why he was so good. He was talented, but at the same time, and he was also very disciplined he was also very consistent and I believe that is why there will never be another player of his caliber in the NBA and the closest that we did get to Jordan was Kobe Bryant.
He won how many playoff games without pippen 1 losing record regular season
@@brianharron3435 pippen who? why nobody talk about him?
i agree, good job on this.
The League has lost sight of the fact that it is *competition* that generates excitement, not just scoring.
No one seems to talk about another fact: THE RULES are different. YOU COULD NOT handle the ball the way they do today in another era without being called for a travel, carry, or another violation, period. Just as hand checking made the offensive end more difficult, the allowance of carrying and palming is THE REASON we see what players have been doing for decades in practice show up in games. THE REFS LET PLAYERS get away with far more on the offensive side of the ball.
Today era is like a friendly exhibition game
You‘re absolutely right regarding the lack of considering defense… maybe it’s because casual fans only focus on players scoring which makes defense less glamourous. What bothers me mostly about the GOAT debate, though, is that also those of us who grew up in the 1980s and 1990s often ignore previous eras. I remember seeing an interview with John Salley where he said that MJ himself would never describe himself as the GOAT, cos there were players like Kareem Abdul-Jabar, Dr. J, Jerry West, Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain before him. All those players were allrounders who would be great in any given era.
No dummbass Gianni’s in the 90’s would’ve been goat stgu
"Back in the days. . . ." That's the favorite phrase of my 60yo uncle 😂
I didn’t realise there was a debate
You got the point at the end! exactly what I'm saying to younger "fans": IF I WOULD HAVE SEEN ANY BETTER PLAYER THAN JORDAN I WOULD ADMIT IT! (it's small sample size, but Wemby? OMG).
The issue I have with LeBron's fans is they watch highlights rather than whole games (like I did back in the '90 bc there was no internet or Social Medias)
Keep up the great work bro!
#MJ23 still the 🐐
i still have goosebumps whenever i watch jordan vids on youtube. i don't feel like that with any other player, even lebron. there's just something different about how jordan plays.
No one talks about the fact that in the 80's and 90s the 3 point percentage was barely 30% league wide on less than 10 attempts per game. Now league wide that pecentage is 36% League wide on 34 attempts per game. So, in today's game the players are starting with an 8 point advantage alone barring the old school start jacking up 3's they are not use to shooting. It's true that players in the 80's and 80s could be more physical on defense, but that only applies the driving the ball. Having at least 3 sniper (sometimes 5) sitting around the 3 point line by itself would change the way old school could play defense. Now you can't clog the paint like back then and hammer drivers especially once they start kicking the ball back out and burning you with a snipe 3 enough times to figure out it's not going to stop. It absolutely is harder to play defense in today's game. Jordan never faced a team where there are 7-8 players that could create their on shots, Paremeter shooting light years away from where it was in the 80-90's, bigs that could shoot from anywhere on the court, and offenses that could run you out of the gym with pace the NBA currently uses. Most gameplay back then was primarily surrounded around half court offensive sets. The rosters now are bigger and more skilled at every position. The 90s teams would get ran out of the gym by teams from today. Saying the players back then are better than today players to me is like saying computers back then are better than computers now (anyone wants to go back to the 56k modem?). Everything goes through itterations and improves, that's evolution. Respectifully, No way those bulls teams would win now. If it could actually happen, it would look like JV versus varsity and people would sit and watch in disbelief and to how wide of a gap it'll be. Jordan would average 35-40 but unless he switches teammates, he'd just be Kevin Durrant in modern time. I was born is 1973. so I'm old school and have watched basketball since my Bucks had Bob Lanier, Sidney Moncrief, and Marques Johnson and I'm admitting this. If you put Lebron, Kobe, Giannis, KD, Steph, Lillard, Kawhi, Kyrie, Butler, Mcgrady, PG, Luka, AD, Jokic, Booker, Embiid, SGA, Tatum, Maxey..... back in that era, they would be top tier all NBA first or second team players. It's ridiculous to me to see people not recognize how much more skilled players are today verses back then. Back then teams had players on the roster that couldn't even shoot. A bunch of players back then would not even make an NBA roster in today's game but just about all the players in today's game could play back then. Why, because being able to shoot is undeniable and always an asset. Their were very, very few 3&D guys back then. Now each team has at least 3 of them. Anyone who thinks those bulls would beat the 2001-2003 lakers, 2008 Celtics, 2012-2014 Heat, 2015 Spurs, 2017-2018 Warriors I feel do not realize what they've been looking at in respect to both eras.
I never even considered this a real debate. Just thought people needed something to talk about.
Its over because we as real basketball fans know that whatever lebron does, bless him as hes a good player, but he will never be in that class the Jordan is.. Jordan is respected all over the world, lebron is just a player, noone will even talk about lebron 5 years after he retires .. but the name Jordan will go on forever..
Yea ok bro bron will be in the nba till he wants to probably play own a team to he’s the alltime leading scorer and he’s still playing and setting record after record but yea he’s going to disappear in 5 years lol
Not only was Jordan greater in terms of accomplishments (two threepeats with the same team and long list of individual scoring titles) in an era where it was harder to put up numbers, his artistry with the ball is unmatched. Watching him play was like watching poetry in motion.
LEBRON NEVER PLAYED WITH THE OLD NBA AND THE GREAT PLAYERS IN HIS ERA. LEBRON WOULD BE CRYING FACING THE PISTONS ON DEFENSE AND FACING THE LAKERS IN FAST COURT AND THE CELTICS IN THE ZONE. SHAQ WAS AT HIS PRIME IN THE 90'S AND SO WAS AKEEM OLAJUWON AND DAVID ROBINSON. THE CENTERS TODAY SUCK. TODAY'S NBA IS TRASH IN EVERY CATEGORY. PLAYERS ARE BUNCH OF CRY BABIES AND SPOILED
Led the nba in shot attempts for 9 years in a row. you act liek he was efficent. man was just a talented shot chucker.
@@jaredgrube6320 And led in scoring 10 times, while also making All-Defensive teams AND leading the league in steals three times while also leading in scoring. Jordan was a talented shot-maker, and much more.
@@TKDBoy1889 easy to make the most shots when you take the most shots by a large margin every year.
He never beat Larry Bird. Facts
"When you have someone penetrating you defensively, it is hard to do some moves"... I'd say that's correct.
There never a was a debate, and I take that personally 😂
Its never been just about the rings but also how you got them
And your contribution and role in them
Jordan got six rings by leading his team and carrying them night in and night out especially in the clutch for all six years
ok Bill Russel have 11 rings don't count
@@samuraibeastwarrior2886 they count and we're impressive but lets not forget there were 8 teams then
@@DustinZon-vs2qd true
what you mean carry... Jordan esp. n his 2nd 3-peat had the best supporint gvast in the league- soe of the best shooters plus Scottie Pippen!
@@antonquirgst2812 I would never argue that. What I would argue though is lebron James having a supporting cast almost as good as Jordans second 3 peat and coming up short