Why was God so angry at David for taking the census? | GotQuestions.org
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- What was wrong with David’s census? Why was God so angry at David for taking the census? And, who incite David to take the Old Testament census we read about in 2 Samuel 24 and in 1 Chronicles 21? Did God or Satan incite David to take the census… or was it someone else? In this video, Pastor Nelson with Bible Munch answers the question, “Why was God so angry at David for taking the census”.
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God was angry at David for taking the census because it implied that David was trusting his own strength instead of trusting in the power of God. The census was also seen as a sign of pride, as it was a way of showing off the size of David's army and kingdom. It was also a sin of presumption, as it was a way of questioning God's ability to protect and provide for his people.
THANK YOU
@@lovedeborah you're welcome and God bless you Debbie. Seek and you will find, for Jesus said if you love me you will keep my word if you keep my word the father will love you and we will come to you and make a home with you.
You want to know God do this, you want to see God than blessed are the pure of heart for they shall see God
Wrong
@@jessejonathan5138 these things are in the scripture, have you not read?
the Bible does not exactly say, which is maybe where you're wrong comment is coming from but, it is believed that David's motive for taking the census may have been rooted in pride and a reliance on military strength rather than on God's guidance and protection.
David's heart struck him after he had numbered the troops, and he said to the LORD, "I have sinned greatly in what I have done. Now, O LORD, please take away the guilt of Your servant, for I have acted very foolishly." - 2 Samuel 24:10 (BSB)
So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning until the appointed time, and seventy thousand men of the people from Dan to Beersheba died. - 2 Samuel 24:15 (BSB)
Even Joab thought it was a bad idea. It's far more sensible to consider that David was planning a war of aggression in the manner of alleged Christian George W Bush.
Got Questions has SUPER SOLID theology. They are always just plain scripture! Thanks you all!
Thank you for clarifying this contradiction for me. I’ve seen how other supposed contradictions of the Bible are easily resolved but this was one that I couldn’t figure out. Now I understand the issue comes from the original translation from Hebrew to English.
I feel sorry for people like Jimmy who only see the fallen world we live in and blame God when it is man’s sinful nature that has wrought all the evil we see and experience. Praying for your scales to be lifted from your eyes, Jimmy.
I was studying this chapter of Chronicles and 2 Samuel last night and I really appreciated the explanation from GotQuestion. This particular account is one of those confusing ones. But not enough to shake my faith. This account shows the issues translators face and YET we have such reliable translations. God is good.
If you put on some glasses you would look almost identical to Mike Winger
Right down to the shirt my friend.
That is so true!! 😂
The Bible does not tell us every little detail of each story, and it really does put our faith to the test when we have to trust that the Almighty God IS merciful and just in all His ways. I think there very well could be lots of missing details here: like maybe if Satan tempted David, it doesn't say HOW he tempted him, like maybe Satan used the people to come against David and to pressure him into taking a census. I say this because in the chronological order of the Bible, there are Psalms written by David right after talking about how people make fun of him and how they are surrounding him on all sides and that they are sinful. If the people were involved in the decision to take the Census, all of the punishments God offered make sense because they all involve the people as well as David. It could be that the 70,000 killed in the plague were the same people involved in the rebellion. Also, God says that His anger burned against ISRAEL, not just David, hinting that this was a group crime. I imagine the nation was getting braggy, since they just demolished a bunch of other groups of people in war, and wanted to know just how amazing and large their army was as a flex to other nations.
This is just my take, it may not be the case at all, but whatever the reason, we know that Yahweh is a just judge, and he knows the heart of people, and he does not punish without cause. These things we can be sure of ❤
This explanation helps, thank you.
@@photoniccannon2117I agree
This story is not that easy to explain actually.
Let see it from David's perspective.
He did not complain about it, yet he repented from doing thing.
Did he ask God before he did it?
Where was the idea of doing the census come from?
is it from God or from David himself or from another one?
You know sometimes we do something that we think is right, and it leads us into difficulties.
Why?
Because the thing we assume as a right thing might not line up with God's plan to us.
But David knew it, and he accepted the punishments. And he stayed faithful even after the punishments.
why?
He did not rebel against God due to the punishment that we think is not fair.
why?
There might something up to the census. The thing behind the census is the reason.
God bless us
Thank you soo much for sharing God's word. You explained this to my level of understanding.
Thank you for explaining this so well.
Thank you!
Thanks!
Thank you.
But also people forget: Who said David's punishment was over for what he did to Uriah?
And God seems to know that the worst punishment for David would be take people away from him due to his actions, like when God killed David's and Bathseeba's firstborn. This is all speculation
Thanks a lot for explaining this
Great explanation, thank you.
4:52 and definitely perhaps the fact that by requesting a human king they rejected the LORD as their King, Samuel 8:7, which was a sin in itself, no wonder Israel's monarchy was filled with many evil kings and wayyyy less good kings (and even they had fallen at times). Glory be to God for the King of kings and the Lord of lord's Jesus Christ!!!
Ohhhhh, so that's why the census was so wrong. I was very confused
God hates the pride and loves the humble. That moment we shift our reliance from God to our ability,then you know how God is a jealous God.
Even with this, His love endures forever.
Just a note: David left the option up to God and God chose to kill the 70,000.
i must be missing something. I dont see anywhere why God was angry to begin with ??
NKJV says “He” with a captial H so i thought God told him to take the census. I was so confused
Why would counting your soldiers be a sin? I don’t understand anything help
David relies upon worldly strength and his own might over his faith in God’s promise and provision.
David here neglects to heed his own words in 1 Chronicles 29:10-20
I’ve been struggling with this passage not because of the contradiction but because of the fact that God moved David to commit the sin and then punished all of Israel including innocent children…He killed 70,000 people and then repented of it and stopped the angels and that was mercy?
I’m really struggling with the character of God on this one…God has forgiven murder and asks us to forgive 70x7 but just for a simple numbering of the people God kills 70,000 people?
I’m having so much doubt because of the contradiction to Gods character of omniscience and mercy and forgiveness and what He asks us to do and I can’t get past it…I don’t know how.
I don’t think it was only the numbering of the people that made God to kill 70,000 people. Read the full scripture & story again and ask the Holy Spirit to enlighten you.
Yes what your thinking is other’s thinkings too, well it was only a census why would God kill the innocents and with the amount of 70,000!!! He could have just scold David! In that case I also doubt the nature of God and sometimes sees is he too harsh?
The Bible does not tell us every little detail of each story, and it really does put our faith to the test when we have to trust that the Almighty God IS merciful and just in all His ways. I think there very well could be lots of missing details here: like maybe if Satan tempted David, it doesn't say HOW he tempted him, like maybe Satan used the people to come against David and to pressure him into taking a census. I say this because in the chronological order of the Bible, there are Psalms written by David talking about how people make fun of him and how they are surrounding him on all sides and that they are sinful. If the people were involved in the decision to take the Census, all of the punishments God offered make sense because they all involve the people as well as David. It could be that the 70,000 killed in the plague were the same people involved in the rebellion. Also, God says that His anger burned against ISRAEL, not just David, hinting that this was a group crime. I imagine the nation was getting braggy, since they just demolished a bunch of other groups of people in war, and wanted to know just how amazing and large their army was as a flex to other nations.
This is just my take, it may not be the case at all, but whatever the reason, we know that Yahweh is a just judge, and he knows the heart of people, and he does not punish without cause. These things we can be sure of ❤
In 1 Chr. 27:24, Joab didn't finish the counting; and because of THIS, wrath came upon Israel. I'm still not convinced that YHWH is not Satan. Wish I could get beyond it, but I'm struggling.
@@dondysutaway8119this is why we must fear Him. Remember it is God who put evil in Saul
My question is why God was angry at the people of Israel to census them through David?
If you read the prophets you'll find out exactly why the Lord used to be angry against Israel all the time. They were very prone to turning to idolatry and injustice
Many accounts of the people. Rebels. As well as david.
There are some similarities with the Book of Job (we should learn the lesson). God allowed Satan to test Job. Satan was only required not to kill Job (but not his family and servants - Job questioned God's acts (his test and failure/sin))). Satan put the thought of conquering his neighbours in David's mind to test his wickedness. He fell into the trap and did the census to determine whether he has the human resources to conquer other nations.
In those days, population size was volatile due to disease, weather condition (drought or flood), migration. So counting the population size is important before any war endeavour. As a deterrent to warmongering God put a "cost" (ransom/sacrifice to the LORD).
The pandemic foiled his war plan.
One can argue that the census was for planning food production but unlikely in my view given God punishment.
The fact David sacrificed at a place other than the temple is concerning. Maybe Gad wasn't a prophet of God.
1:15 Luke 22:31-32 does not say that about Satan
WHY DIDN'T YOU MENTION THE ANGEL OF THE LORD? POPE IVA. 🕊🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕊
God does NOT have to COMMAND David to take a census. Exodus 30 does not COMMAND Moses to take a count, either. IT states WHEN you take a census, not TAKE A CENSUS. And 2 Samuel 24, God "moved" David to take a count, not God commanded David to take a count.
God's anger was with Israel, not David.
But there are DIFFERENCES between the 2 accounts. They are not the same account.
For example:
In 2 Samuel 24:13, God gave David 3 choices of punishment:
*1. 7 *(SEVEN) years famine, or
**2. 3 years *(YEARS) fleeing from enemies, or
3. 3 days pestilence
But in 1 Chronicles 21:12 God also gave David 3 choices of punishment:
*1. 3*(THREE) years famine, or
**2. 3 months *(MONTHS) overtaken by enemies
3. 3 days pestilence
That's a major difference, not to mention the other differences in the census, as well as the CURRENCY and amount needed for the THRESHING FLOOR in order to STOP the pestilence.
Threshing Floor (Belonging to Ornan) 1 Chronicles 21:25: *600 Shekels of Gold.
Threshing Floor (Belonging to Araunah) 2 Samuel 22:24: **50 shekels of Silver.
My reference is the KJV, but I do know, and am aware of other versions of the Bible, such as the NIV, which makes everything the SAME account. For example...2 Samuel 24:13 shows THREE YEARS FAMINE instead of SEVEN, which would make both accounts the same...except for the currency and amount, and who the threshing floor belonged to. Those are still different, reflecting the same as the KJV.
Having said all that...Numbering the people is NOT the sin.
1 John 3:4 states that sin is the transgression of the law [of Moses].
Romans 3:20 states that the law [of Moses] is the knowledge of sin.
So, we have to take it back to the law of Moses in order to determine WHAT the sin actually is.
Exodus 30:11-16
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
12 When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the Lord, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when thou numberest them.
NOTE: DID YOU SEE THE WORD PLAGUE IN VERSE 12?
13 This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs:) an half shekel shall be the offering of the Lord.
14 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the Lord.
15 The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when they give an offering unto the Lord, to make an atonement for your souls.
16 And thou shalt take the atonement money of the children of Israel, and shalt appoint it for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation; that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the Lord, to make an atonement for your souls.
Numbering the people is not the sin. Neglecting to COLLECT MONEY FROM THE PEOPLE COUNTED is the sin.
it was 7 years of famine not 3 years
3 years is correct.. 2 Samuel 24:13 and 1 Chronicles 21:12
3
No, its 7. Read Kjv all these other translations have it saying 3.
🤔 PERHAPS GOD WAS ANGRY BECAUSE DAVID COUNTED "EVERYONE" INCLUDING PAGANS & NOT JUST THOSE WHO FOLLOWED GOD. BESIDES THE FACT THAT NOWHERE DOES IT EVEN SAY WHY GOD WAS ANGRY ( THIS TIME ) WITH ISRAEL. & IF YOU CAN'T EVEN EXPLAIN ( WHO ) LITERALLY AUTHORIZED THE CENSUS ( GOD, DAVID, satan ) YOU CAN NEVER COME TO A FACTUAL STATEMENT, YET, ONLY A CONCLUSION. 🤷♂️
So let me get this straight, God let the devil trick David into counting and for that 70,000 people die, not including the guy who is being punished? It's disgusting really
David didn't ask God If he should take census or not. David was tempted by Satan, David was being tested by God. David fell for Devil's temptation and that is what God didn't like.
God didn't like David's lack of discipline because he was not disciplined to ask God about the census and that is how David went down rabbithole.
Sometimes Satan's put this thoughts in our head, which we think is right and we fall for it.
God just replaced their location..an angel himself came to do the job.
@@Doctor_Fate5 That seems like a good way to rationalize it. However, it could be inconsistent with other views you hold.
You wouldn't say "Jesus Teleported for our sins" and I doubt you would brush off abortions as the mother having the fetus "born into heaven". That would be self sacrificial wouldn't it? Ensuring salvation for the baby before they can sin and putting their own salvation into risk. However, they could just ask for forgiveness and all is taken care of.
@@LatrineDerriere Life and death in the Bible has so many elements to it. We tend to view death as a punishment because it’s all we can see in our limited view. That is we don’t see the full before and after picture where death may actually not be a punishment but freedom. Of course may well be a punishment. The point being we are limited in how we can see it.
What it does say is that “God will be proven right when He judges”. (Like psalm 51:4).
Personally I see a few options here - though I am often perturbed by deaths ascribed to the actions of one man - in more verses than this. But even today people die because of leaders actions , so perhaps I need to look at where I ascribe blame.
Of course there may be more to this (as it tends to be with the bible).
So it may well be that they were guilty of some crime, or maybe not and God chose to take them home. The Bible does speaks in places of the young dying to save them from a life of pain
“Good people pass away; the godly often die before their time. But no one seems to care or wonder why. No one seems to understand that God is protecting them from the evil to come.” Isaiah 57:1
I enjoy reading the Bible - looking at it from a historical context , a personal context -people trying to make sense of what they see (factually , emotionally and creatively like in poetry) and the spiritual context - God’s hand in the events of individuals and nations and how humanity’s view of Him changed over thousands of years.
They to were just mere mortals like us gripping with the big pictures we see and asking God “how does this make sense? “ Looking to Him for their hope and salvation.
And much like us, well me, coming to the conclusion that all we can do is let go into the hand of God trusting He sees the before and after picture.
On a slight side note- I do hope to one day speak to those taken away early and unfairly. And I hope to hear a message of “I would not have it any other way” . So it can make sense in the end.
@@Doctor_Fate5 So was Jesus teleported for our sins?
Except it doesn’t say God was angry at David God was angry with Israel.
And what was Gods “sovereign” purpose in killing 70,000 men women and children?
Why play worldly music in background that God hates.
24:1 God was angry with something else, ... then he put it in David's heart to number Israel ...
Don't read devotionals, read God's only Word, KJB read it for yourself, come to know God for yourself ... the rest is deception.
"God can use Satan in various ways"
That's some sketchy, dated, calvanistic doctrine right there.
Are you implying that God ISN’T sovereign?
@@vinniebasile9404no, he's implying that God doesn't need evil to be good
@@mateusbandeira9017 Well, five months ago I was open to Calvinism. NOW I realize it’s completely unbiblical… LOL.
I agree that this quote is sketchy. But Romans 8:28 tells me that it isn’t entirely wrong.
The biblical concepts of sin and "godly" justice MUST BE FLAWED when innocent people are punished for things they're not responsible for. That is NOT justice, nor could it be justice in any universe or reality where MORALITY exists. Not explaining the reasons for his actions is both unloving, and EXTREMELY unwise knowing that this account would go down in history and be remembered for all to see how awful the God of the Bible actually is.
The 2 accounts of the census leave us with no choice but to face up to the facts. Those 70,000 innocent people got no second chances to resolve what David did. They were offered no course of atonement or a way out. Hmmm kind of out of character for a supposedly "merciful" god. They paid the ultimate price for David and were slaughtered like chattle. End of Story. This wasn't the first time that people in the Bible were punished for something they didn't do, nor would it be the last time.
What makes this census account so frustrating is that later in the Bible, several kings of Israel are put to death for rather minor acts of arbitrary offenses to YHWH. Like Uzziah's lighting of incense after many years of faithful rulership. So by those precedents, NONE of these people had to die in David's stead. If anyone should've lost their life for the upset of the census, it was King David. In fact, for all of David's actions up to that point, Divine justice should've demanded that King David lose his life. But that's not what happened. In fact, at almost every turn we see David is beyond reproach and above the law.
David deserved death for killing Uriah and for raping Bathsheba. Despite laws against killing babies YHWH strikes Bathsheba's innocent newborn with fever for a week until it dies. I guess Ezekiel 18:20 "didn't come into YHWH's heart" at this time. David's innocent concubines are either literally raped in broad daylight (2 Sam 12:12) or later raped by Absalom. And finally, in the case of the census, 70,000 people take the fall for David's sins, which somehow satisfies divine justice?! Everyone's treated like a pawn in David's time. Ahhh, the warm fuzzy morality of the biblical universe.
When it comes to understanding a God of love, ideally everything he does should be done with LOVE. Love is not some tribal, quasi-legal rule-based trapeze act. Love simply acts for the best interest of other(s). If god loved his people he would've gladly protected them against the sins of one foolish idiot. But he didn't. All in all, the biblical God starts off as a tribal god of conquest and war, who cares little to nothing about any other groups of people. Rather than being a god of justice or principle, he breaks his own laws at any time he wants. He is obsessed with dominion and rulership for Israel rather than the well-being of others. He is easily provoked to mindless rampages when it suits him. It's so unflattering that many just ignore it. Jesus does not disown or explain away these grim deeds by YHWH. Often times he mirrors that same apocalyptic sentiment in a watered down, soft-peddled way.
Please, Don't allow yourself to be little more than a valueless pawn in this religious chess game. Do yourself a favor and look into the origins of ancient Hebrew religious doctrine as well as the true history of the Greek and Hebrew religious texts. The evidence for the pagan origins of YHWH and the religious practices surrounding this deity are well documented. I recommend MythVision's CZcams channel. And there are plenty of books and college lectures on this subject.
God was actually angry with the people of Israel because they had sinned against him
@@coreygraham1160 I see. Guess I was just clearly mistaken. Thanks 🤮
@@coreygraham1160 and what was that sin?
I don't understand how someone can lead their life by a book that has gone through 33 translations and has over 30,000 changes.
I began seeking God after reading about the historicity of Christianity (The Truimph of Christianity by Bart Ehrman) and other things, was fully pursuing God willing to believe, and when my faith became truly real and personal, I experienced the presence of God and was totally changed by it (born again spiritually). After that I started reading the Bible, specifically the New Testament and I couldn't put it down. It was beyond apparent to me that this is the truth but God revealed Himself to me before I started reading the Bible! God is real my friend, I hope you come to faith and receive the grace and eternal life He offers! God bless.
@@jaredbajer712 Yay?
@@jaredbajer712 thank you for sharing! I have had days where I’m just happy and content knowing God. Three are events in my life where I know with all of my heart and soul God was there for me- with me. No doubts. I had never read the Bible, it’s a knowing through faith. Now I am reading the Bible a chapter a day, trying to understand it. I am faithful and will always believe but I have to admit it’s been an emotional rollercoaster for me. A lot of fighting and death, plagues, famine- why can’t someone count anything? Is it really that bad ? Why do people have to be killed nor suffer?? if I were from a different religion and I had a child of course my child would believe what I believe it’s not necessarily that child’s fault just because he was born in a family who was a non-believer. I keep Reading about God having mercy and compassion in the book but sometimes I don’t see it. It’s very confusing. the more I read I’m hoping it will come together so that I can gain a better understanding. No matter what in my soul I believe in God and that Jesus is my savior… I guess it’s wrong to question Gods actions but I’m looking to gain a deeper understanding- reading the Bible is a journey for sure!
@@BonnitaKEverett Thank you for sharing as well! This is my recommendation for you. Start reading the New Testament first. The historical books of the Old Testament can be a little complicated at first because it's describing the history of Isreal and things happening but not always why they happen and trying to understand it all. Read the Gospels and the rest of the New Testament. Focus on the Jesus and once you have a good understanding, the you can go back to the Old Testament for further study. Try to read a chapter a day in the New Testament. Hope this helps! God bless you!
@@jaredbajer712 Hi Jared- ha i’m out running errands and to be honest I have no idea what version Im reading LOL- based on what you’re saying it probably is the old testament. I will definitely follow your recommendation. Many thanks and may God bless you and your family, in Jesus name, Amen!
God the loser just can't stop losing because people in hell have hope and hope grows in the pride of a nation
Yes, nothing convinces me more that people will blindly follow a cruel deity in order to save their skins, than this passage. I do not see a God of love and mercy indicated by this passage, nor understand how a perfect being would need a new covenant absolve himself from such past actions. Avoidance is the best solution when it comes to dealing with the martyr complexed, self serving Christian.
Continue reading the Bible and prayer. Ask God for understanding as a daily walk with God will change the way we think and feel. Hang in there! This world is not an easy place to be but with God by our side we can conquer all.God bless you Jimmy.
Mr user, I appreciate your wisdom here. Would love to see this "sweeping the shit under the rug" mentality dissipate in the next few generations. People in general need more backbone to call out the fallacies surrounding them and show a better way. Solidarity my reasonable neighbor. 👍
Nothing cruel about it. Bad people are cruel, not the judge that sends them to prison for being bad people.